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user1111
07-02-2006, 08:46 AM
The Supplement Companies in general are re-inventing the wheel because we have to!

A product new to the Fitness industry especially herbal formulations has been in existence before the Bodybuilding.com and the internet generation...gasp! Herbal remedies have been used before our conception. Herbal remedies been around before we curled a dumbbell or aspired for HUGE biceps.

The flawed logic of "Cissus is NEW or Dodder seed is NEW and it will cause cancer and not safe because user name bigJim said so and he has 4,000 posts, and he found the abstract on pubmed" is following blindly.

Cissus has been used for over 60 years with children. This is called herbal medicine or Ayurveda. Cissus has been used Longer than CREATINE so have the actives in most our products.

USPLabs is producing products with over 100 years of documented and undocumented research. Yes, I admit we are puzzled by the mechanism of action of PowerFULL, but if toxicity is not an issue, and used by children in Ayurveda. You are still concerned about safety. Please buy SuperDROL.

sawastea
07-02-2006, 09:21 AM
USPlabs,

Please try to keep all product information in the 'supplement promotion' forum.

goali2
07-02-2006, 09:51 AM
Hey, I have been really interested in taking Symmetry X but haven’t been able to find substantial amount of research. I plan to take Symmetry X and stack with something else, I was thinking something along the lines of Camp and Powerfull or Cissus, but I m a bit skeptical as I am only 18, and don’t want to take any supplements that mess around with my hormones directly, and the includes Test booster. So can you please enlighten me on this matter

Thanks

thanatopsis
07-02-2006, 10:18 AM
Hey, I have been really interested in taking Symmetry X but haven’t been able to find substantial amount of research. I plan to take Symmetry X and stack with something else, I was thinking something along the lines of Camp and Powerfull or Cissus, but I m a bit skeptical as I am only 18, and don’t want to take any supplements that mess around with my hormones directly, and the includes Test booster. So can you please enlighten me on this matter

Thanks

Interestingly enough I found that Symmetry X has an additive effect with Cissus Rx as far as alleviating tendon pain in my rotator cuffs. This application is not what it was designed for, nor did I expect it, but it is certainly welcome!

If you are in doubt don't take it until you are 21 :) I would not think Cissus or Camph could possibly be a problem, as for PowerFULL and Symmetry I'm not sure.

CanadaBBOY
07-02-2006, 02:45 PM
The Supplement Companies in general are re-inventing the wheel because we have to!

A product new to the Fitness industry especially herbal formulations has been in existence before the Bodybuilding.com and the internet generation...gasp! Herbal remedies have been used before our conception. Herbal remedies been around before we curled a dumbbell or aspired for HUGE biceps.

The flawed logic of "Cissus is NEW or Dodder seed is NEW and it will cause cancer and not safe because user name bigJim said so and he has 4,000 posts, and he found the abstract on pubmed" is following blindly.

Cissus has been used for over 60 years with children. This is called herbal medicine or Ayurveda. Cissus has been used Longer than CREATINE so have the actives in most our products.

USPLabs is producing products with over 100 years of documented and undocumented research. Yes, I admit we are puzzled by the mechanism of action of PowerFULL, but if toxicity is not an issue, and used by children in Ayurveda. You are still concerned about safety. Please buy SuperDROL.


I'm sure the effort is appreciated, but you haven't actually provided any information in that post. Just the same sorts of things that you have been saying about it since it was released. I would hardly consider that to be world changing news for ALL bodybuilders. I would try and avoid extreme hype like that unless you're actually going to put something up to the plate.

MusclesFlyers
07-02-2006, 02:48 PM
I'm sure the effort is appreciated, but you haven't actually provided any information in that post. Just the same sorts of things that you have been saying about it since it was released. I would hardly consider that to be world changing news for ALL bodybuilders. I would try and avoid extreme hype like that unless you're actually going to put something up to the plate.

x2 :)

Dr. Doom
07-02-2006, 02:51 PM
I just searched your usernames, and your posts never bring useful information.

60 years and not one clue what Cissus exactly does? Yikes

user128333334
07-02-2006, 02:51 PM
**** all of these companies who are only motivated by sheer profit and can potentially put any powder..yeah even just plain white powder in a tub and say omg it's amazing and world changing

Just eat food
+ Whey protein (desinger or even just bulk)


Thanks but I want to warn complete n00b's away from nob jockeys like you

Dr. Doom
07-02-2006, 03:06 PM
:eek: This thread backfired

JRRBadBoy4Life
07-02-2006, 03:29 PM
:eek: This thread backfired
That's what I say. The only thing I got out of reading that first post was something about Cissus causing cancer:eek: Now I think I would rather jump off a cliff than by me some Cissus.

uhockey
07-02-2006, 03:30 PM
USPlabs,

Please try to keep all product information in the 'supplement promotion' forum.

:D

Lanbane
07-02-2006, 05:00 PM
I find it absolutely hilarious that almost every one of you is knocking USP. lol.

Then again, one can't expect much more from UNDEREDUCATED people. You guys need to learn a bit and grow the heck up before you post on forums:-)

USP is one of the few companies putting out safe, EFFECTIVE supplements. Not that YOU need to be using them. Go back to your nut shrinking roids, liver killing Superdrol, and amazing GAKIC! I'll happily stick with the USP.

hordeall
07-02-2006, 05:39 PM
I want to thank USPlabs for this thread before I read it I was at the end of my rope but it literally changed my life. This truely is life changing news, I cant wait to hit the gym! P.S. India has had these magical herbs and kept them to themselves for so long how dare them!

*sarcasm*

Dr. Doom
07-02-2006, 08:43 PM
I find it absolutely hilarious that almost every one of you is knocking USP. lol.

Then again, one can't expect much more from UNDEREDUCATED people. You guys need to learn a bit and grow the heck up before you post on forums:-)

USP is one of the few companies putting out safe, EFFECTIVE supplements. Not that YOU need to be using them. Go back to your nut shrinking roids, liver killing Superdrol, and amazing GAKIC! I'll happily stick with the USP.
Anabolic Xtreme also has effective products.

Can you prove to me USP Labs is safe? For all we know, creatine may not be safe. Take a look at the last era where people thought steroids were safe.

bobburn
07-02-2006, 09:01 PM
mhmm...as a whole it seems to me that most of the PR responses put out by USP are off-putting and rather rude.

Dr. Doom
07-02-2006, 09:25 PM
Please buy SuperDROL.
Atleast we know its a steroid.

adoniscomplex
07-02-2006, 11:00 PM
:eek: This thread backfired
its max !!! 66.48 posts a day ,,, oh yes its maxx

Dr. Doom
07-02-2006, 11:07 PM
its max !!! 66.48 posts a day ,,, oh yes its maxx
wtf?
i jsut have a bunch of threads im active in so little replies here and there

adoniscomplex
07-02-2006, 11:18 PM
for a sec i was like woo i am wrong but then i checked and like a **** load of either people said the same thing

CanadaBBOY
07-02-2006, 11:37 PM
I find it absolutely hilarious that almost every one of you is knocking USP. lol.

Then again, one can't expect much more from UNDEREDUCATED people. You guys need to learn a bit and grow the heck up before you post on forums:-)

USP is one of the few companies putting out safe, EFFECTIVE supplements. Not that YOU need to be using them. Go back to your nut shrinking roids, liver killing Superdrol, and amazing GAKIC! I'll happily stick with the USP.

You have two posts and clearly have no idea what you are talking about/ make me want to drown myself in my own urine just to escape your stupidity.

Go re-read my post and then go and read USP labs post, and if you are even half way intelligent you'll see that my point is correct. There is no real information on his products, therefore no information to indicate that they are, or are not safe. This would make it seem foolish for you to blindly support USP labs and say that everything he sells is completely safe (he hasn't even been around that long, so how do you know all of this with such certainty). I also do not condone the use of steroids and am strongly against the use of prohormones. Also, although this is just a forum and spelling/grammar isn't required, i suggest that you at least learn to formulate a coherent sentence before calling everyone else "UNDEREDUCATED".

EDIT - to be completely fair there has been nothing reported by users to indicate that his products have any negative side effects, but as I’ve said there is little to no information about the ingredients so one can not properly evaluate their safety.

Kledz
07-03-2006, 02:13 AM
World changing news is my Gold's gym was taken out by a tsunami.

Your "news" is about as important to me as the latest crazy thing Tom Cruise has done.

Lanbane
07-03-2006, 06:08 AM
You have two posts and clearly have no idea what you are talking about/ make me want to drown myself in my own urine just to escape your stupidity.

Go re-read my post and then go and read USP labs post, and if you are even half way intelligent you'll see that my point is correct. There is no real information on his products, therefore no information to indicate that they are, or are not safe. This would make it seem foolish for you to blindly support USP labs and say that everything he sells is completely safe (he hasn't even been around that long, so how do you know all of this with such certainty). I also do not condone the use of steroids and am strongly against the use of prohormones. Also, although this is just a forum and spelling/grammar isn't required, i suggest that you at least learn to formulate a coherent sentence before calling everyone else "UNDEREDUCATED".

EDIT - to be completely fair there has been nothing reported by users to indicate that his products have any negative side effects, but as Iíve said there is little to no information about the ingredients so one can not properly evaluate their safety.

Big Thumbs Up Canada! Your mother must be proud. Yes, I have 2 posts. Why, Because a LOT of the discussion on this forum is so pointless, it's not even worth weighing in on. Thermolife rep? Wow.... there's a good company. UNDEREDUCATED, that's you bud.

As for Dr. Doom: It is rather strange that in like 2 days as a member, you have nearly 300 posts. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

BiggJohn
07-03-2006, 08:01 AM
The Supplement Companies in general are re-inventing the wheel because we have to!

A product new to the Fitness industry especially herbal formulations has been in existence before the Bodybuilding.com and the internet generation...gasp! Herbal remedies have been used before our conception. Herbal remedies been around before we curled a dumbbell or aspired for HUGE biceps.

The flawed logic of "Cissus is NEW or Dodder seed is NEW and it will cause cancer and not safe because user name bigJim said so and he has 4,000 posts, and he found the abstract on pubmed" is following blindly.

Cissus has been used for over 60 years with children. This is called herbal medicine or Ayurveda. Cissus has been used Longer than CREATINE so have the actives in most our products.

USPLabs is producing products with over 100 years of documented and undocumented research. Yes, I admit we are puzzled by the mechanism of action of PowerFULL, but if toxicity is not an issue, and used by children in Ayurveda. You are still concerned about safety. Please buy SuperDROL.

I'm one of your biggest fans, but I don't understand the need for this post.

user1111
07-03-2006, 09:28 AM
I'm sure the effort is appreciated, but you haven't actually provided any information in that post. Just the same sorts of things that you have been saying about it since it was released. I would hardly consider that to be world changing news for ALL bodybuilders. I would try and avoid extreme hype like that unless you're actually going to put something up to the plate.


Cissus was released with an article. DId you read it? USPLabs.tv and click on cissus:}

"ALL" just to get your attention, induce discussion and it worked.

user1111
07-03-2006, 09:34 AM
I just searched your usernames, and your posts never bring useful information.

60 years and not one clue what Cissus exactly does? Yikes

Did you read the research article at USPLabs.tv? Usplabs.tv and click Cissus or better yet do google search on Cissus. Yikes is the fact that you try to find all research on a Message board. supplement companies direct purpose is making money and than they have other agendas that may be moral or immoral.

I am using nettle root but my decision was based off DS reputation, outside research(2-4 hours total), and consumer feedback then a purchase was made.

user1111
07-03-2006, 09:40 AM
You have two posts and clearly have no idea what you are talking about/ make me want to drown myself in my own urine just to escape your stupidity.

Go re-read my post and then go and read USP labs post, and if you are even half way intelligent you'll see that my point is correct. There is no real information on his products, therefore no information to indicate that they are, or are not safe. This would make it seem foolish for you to blindly support USP labs and say that everything he sells is completely safe (he hasn't even been around that long, so how do you know all of this with such certainty). I also do not condone the use of steroids and am strongly against the use of prohormones. Also, although this is just a forum and spelling/grammar isn't required, i suggest that you at least learn to formulate a coherent sentence before calling everyone else "UNDEREDUCATED".

EDIT - to be completely fair there has been nothing reported by users to indicate that his products have any negative side effects, but as I’ve said there is little to no information about the ingredients so one can not properly evaluate their safety.

ARE U Claiming there is no research on CIssus?

user1111
07-03-2006, 09:42 AM
Atleast we know its a steroid.

Cissus is an Herb.

user1111
07-03-2006, 09:48 AM
mhmm...as a whole it seems to me that most of the PR responses put out by USP are off-putting and rather rude.

THe purpose is discussion and it's working. THe best way to get a response is being direct. I've get numerous e-mails and numerous threads on the forums about "what are these herbs" so I created a direct response thread.

My consumer base understands my nature, and I do not talk down. I listen and a simple thread should not be "off-putting" but draw conversation.

There is an issue of WHAT are these Herbs? IF thats the case, We need a comparison and creatine is perfect example. THere is a study that creatine cause proliferation and differentation of cells. Why, we have no clue but it works and we are fine with that. I found creatine to be a perfect example to cissus.

Kledz
07-03-2006, 10:02 AM
What in the hell are you talking about?

user1111
07-03-2006, 10:52 AM
Purpose for this thread is to gain insight on the negative side of USPLabs. We are embarking on a national advertising campaign. The thread is to invoke a negative reply for marketing idea.

What we need to correct.

take care

CanadaBBOY
07-03-2006, 11:53 AM
USPlabs.

When i click on the articles link on your website it does not work.

This problem occurs with both firefox and IE, and it says the page cannot be found.

Also Iím sorry if I seem a bit rude, but Iím obviously not going to be pleased by a thread like this. Also whats his face is blindly supporting you and taking stupidity to new heights, making it difficult to have a reasonable conversation.

user1111
07-03-2006, 12:07 PM
USPlabs.

When i click on the articles link on your website it does not work.

This problem occurs with both firefox and IE, and it says the page cannot be found.

Also Iím sorry if I seem a bit rude, but Iím obviously not going to be pleased by a thread like this. Also whats his face is blindly supporting you and taking stupidity to new heights, making it difficult to have a reasonable conversation.

Well you been of advocate of Questioning USPLabs. Not a problem to me and to his defense, he did not understand my motives. He believe in a product and just voiced his opinion as you have blindly.

CISSUS RX: Promotes Speed Healing

THE SCIENCE
Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakened by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis, which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins. Real World Application for injuries.

Simply if you're suffering from joint pain, ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage, Cissus is the supplement to use. It has been my experience that many grapplers take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. Cissus has the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury while promoting healing.

Some users will get instant relief and other will need to use Cissus for much longer period of time for complete healing of an injury. Leverage performance science is not claiming that Cissus will work 100% percent of the time that would be a foolish claim. We have estimated that 85% of user experience relief from our product. This number may lower or rise as more consumers send in reports. In the PHARMACEUTICAL industry a 50% success rate is good. Since we talking about the Pharmaceutical industry, they have yet to produce a product that helps the healing process. They just develop pain medications that are often addicting.

THE OTHER SIDE EFFECT IS ANABOLIC!
Cissus is anabolic and anti-catabolic!!! Cissus users report a "PUMP" that we call the Cissus pump. The PUMP effect becomes prevalent at approximately 10-15 days of continuos Cissus use. The "PUMP" is due to the increase of blood flow to the muscle. The Cissus pump will have you flexing your muscle for no apparent reason. This is when you know the product has exerted its effect.

Cissus is a powerful natural anabolic; if not the one of most powerful natural anabolic on the market. Do you need it? An Anabolic and anti-catabolic substance allows for faster recovery from exercise, from injury, increase in muscle strength, and stamina. In short, you will be able to train longer and recover faster without the negative effects of anabolic steroids.

Cissus is also an ideal product to use in conjunction with cAMPED for dropping weight. Imagine decreasing bodyfat while simultaneously retaining your strength and preserving muscle mass while on a calorie restricted diet! The combined effects of Cissus and camped become a powerful tool for any competitive grappler!


WARNING
If using Cissus to heal injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) effect . This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution until full recovery has been achieved. On the contrary, if using Cissus primarily for its Anabolic properties your training program should be continued with maximum intensity to reap the full benefits of this product.

References
1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8

2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.

3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.

4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.

5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.

6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.

7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7rences

Lanbane
07-03-2006, 12:14 PM
Thank you USP, for bringing the science to this thread.

As for "blindly supporting USP", please do not assume I am blindly supporting anyone. I have researched the herbs behind the supplements, and what they can and cannot do. My support of USP is FAR from blind... it is educated, informed, and impressed.

Ayurvedic medicines are highly regarded by many, and USP has managed to tap into this tried and time tested resource, for the sake of the supplement industry. Whether you agree or not, expect big things from USPLabs. And hey, I am guessing you'll be using their stuff sooner or later ;-)

CanadaBBOY
07-03-2006, 12:17 PM
Thanks a lot for posting that USPlabs, looks pretty solid.

I take back what i said about there being no research for Cissus, but I believe there is still some mystery about your other products/ingredients. I suppose in order to keep your business afloat and avoid copy-cat products this may be needed.

Thanks again, I think I may get my friend on some Cissus, he has had very bad tendon and joint pain for years (been lifting for 15-20 years and freakishly strong). Nothing at all as far as supplements seem to work for him, but if it did work he'd for sure be a customer for life. I want to help the guy out because everything I recomend to him never seems to work (for anything, not just joint pain).

Anyways, thanks for the info!

CanadaBBOY
07-03-2006, 12:21 PM
Thank you USP, for bringing the science to this thread.

As for "blindly supporting USP", please do not assume I am blindly supporting anyone. I have researched the herbs behind the supplements, and what they can and cannot do. My support of USP is FAR from blind... it is educated, informed, and impressed.

Ayurvedic medicines are highly regarded by many, and USP has managed to tap into this tried and time tested resource, for the sake of the supplement industry. Whether you agree or not, expect big things from USPLabs. And hey, I am guessing you'll be using their stuff sooner or later ;-)

Perhaps, but I find it hard to believe that you've researched all of the herbs behind his supplements, because there is a lot of ambiguity with a lot of the naming which makes it difficult to research.

Also don't be too quick to call other people under educated unless you want to post up your credentials.

goali2
07-03-2006, 02:28 PM
Hey didnt mean to hijack this thread, but this question is for USPlabs, can you please answer the question which i have posted above on the first page. As I plan to stack this with a creatine. And after reading some posts, where users have been suffering from a loss of libido is kind of discouraging. But before i make any conclusions i should wait for your response.