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*supermomma*
07-02-2006, 05:26 AM
Why is this badly outdated and ineffective advice so often given here?

(My apologies for posting this in the nutrition section--I thought I was in the training area, and then realized after posting.)

terracotta
07-02-2006, 05:57 AM
Your question is thoroughly discussed at
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=813830

*supermomma*
07-02-2006, 06:53 AM
Your question is thoroughly discussed at
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=813830

Interesting thread, but it mostly looked like a prolonged argument...

Hey there--I think I remember you from O2 (I have a different username there, but if yours is the same, then yes).

I was referring primarily to the stickies, in which working each body part once per week is advised, without any mention of other training splits.

I've done it, and have gotten superior results from other training styles, so it bothers me when it is given with no alternatives. I personally think it can work well for beginners and lifters who use certain types of supplements (i.e., steroids primarily), but not for naturals who are not beginners--it may yield some results, but not the kind of results the same people would get from an upper/lower, push/pull, or full body split.

terracotta
07-02-2006, 07:00 AM
ah, are these the stickies on the main forums?? Those are just rather old, and never updated.. the main sticky in the female forums is my sticky, which makes no mention of training frequency. I really do thing it is an individual thing though. I prefer to do a horizontal/vertical plane type split myself.

As for alternatives.. you can send people to my site ;)
http://terracotta2.googlepages.com

emunah
07-02-2006, 10:15 AM
Terracotta is right on.

Those types of splits are not as effective as upper/lower or full body work.

*supermomma*
07-02-2006, 11:40 AM
Agreed--I trained with a body part split on and off for years, and finally decided to try something different (I settled on the Bill Starr intermediate 5x5, which is a FB workout 3x a week), and I can already feel the difference.

I didn't check the dates on the stickies--very good point terra :).

DUMB BELLE
07-03-2006, 10:52 AM
With all due respect Supermomma, I think that making such narrow-minded and generalized statements can be quiet dangerous. We are all different with unique genetics, musculature, bone structure and mind sets.

In an effort to increase MY muscle mass, I’ve been training each body part once a week (as opposed to the full body, lower-upper body, and push-pull splits I’ve done in the past) and made AWESOME gains not only in my muscle MASS but the quality of the muscle. From my personal experience I have to agree with what Go Big said in the thread on this topic: that training every body part once a week allows you to target the muscle from various different angles each time.

Yes, new studies and research are CONTINUALLY proving that alternative splits are beneficial but I think the key here is to realize that all the different theories and approaches just prove to confirm that there is no “ONE AND ONLY” way and different approaches can work for different people.

I was in the gym a few days ago cringing at the site of a guy at the cable cross-over machine doing some really weird movements with his arm flying around and using full momentum as opposed to (in my opinion) correct form. Instead of telling him he was wasting his time, I considered the fact that I didn’t know what he was trying to achieve by doing what he was doing. I approached him by asking what it was he was trying to achieve with the movement. Turned out he was doing a very sport-specific exercise to improve his golf swing!!!!
The fact is that different goals require different methods. Unless we know an individual’s goal we can not simply disregard their approach as “ineffective”.

I think if something actually WORKS for someone it can NOT be disregarded as useless or "ineffective".
Once again we have to weigh the difference between individual EXPERIENCE and SCIENCE.

Surely, if an “outdated” approach actually works for even ONE individual, then that approach can not be “outdated” - at least not to that INDIVIDUAL?

You yourself said that the stickies, that claim training each body part per week is superior, should also look at the advantages of alternative splits. Surely, it works both ways?

PS: If you look at the physiques of the “older” bodybuilder greats who followed these “outdated” approaches (eg: Reg Park, Schwarzenegger, Franco Columbu etc. etc.), I would hardly say that the aesthetic appeal of those types of physiques are “old fashioned” or “outdated” - they must have been doing SOMETHING right?!?

terracotta
07-03-2006, 11:11 AM
With all due respect Supermomma, I think that making such narrow-minded and generalized statements can be quiet dangerous. We are all different with unique genetics, musculature, bone structure and mind sets.

In an effort to increase MY muscle mass, I’ve been training each body part once a week (as opposed to the full body, lower-upper body, and push-pull splits I’ve done in the past) and made AWESOME gains not only in my muscle MASS but the quality of the muscle. From my personal experience I have to agree with what Go Big said in the thread on this topic: that training every body part once a week allows you to target the muscle from various different angles each time.

Yes, new studies and research are CONTINUALLY proving that alternative splits are beneficial but I think the key here is to realize that all the different theories and approaches just prove to confirm that there is no “ONE AND ONLY” way and different approaches can work for different people.

I was in the gym a few days ago cringing at the site of a guy at the cable cross-over machine doing some really weird movements with his arm flying around and using full momentum as opposed to (in my opinion) correct form. Instead of telling him he was wasting his time, I considered the fact that I didn’t know what he was trying to achieve by doing what he was doing. I approached him by asking what it was he was trying to achieve with the movement. Turned out he was doing a very sport-specific exercise to improve his golf swing!!!!
The fact is that different goals require different methods. Unless we know an individual’s goal we can not simply disregard their approach as “ineffective”.

I think if something actually WORKS for someone it can NOT be disregarded as useless or "ineffective".
Once again we have to weigh the difference between individual EXPERIENCE and SCIENCE.

Surely, if an “outdated” approach actually works for even ONE individual, then that approach can not be “outdated” - at least not to that INDIVIDUAL?

You yourself said that the stickies, that claim training each body part per week is superior, should also look at the advantages of alternative splits. Surely, it works both ways?

PS: If you look at the physiques of the “older” bodybuilder greats who followed these “outdated” approaches (eg: Reg Park, Schwarzenegger, Franco Columbu etc. etc.), I would hardly say that the aesthetic appeal of those types of physiques are “old fashioned” or “outdated” - they must have been doing SOMETHING right?!?

Very good post.. and I am getting rather sick of the black and white theory of absolutes. Perhaps everyone should try both techniques, decide what works best for THEM, and make peace. People also tend to excel at things they enjoy.. so even if in theory and experiment a routine works better, it comes down to whether the person will be consistent and push just as hard with their training, etc.

babygotback2
07-03-2006, 11:15 AM
I agree! Ive done push/pull splits and one muscle group per day, and made big gains in strength by training only one part daily. Everyone's different :)
Just my 2cents

cowpie
07-03-2006, 11:59 AM
I also agree completely with Dumbelle :) Excellent post! I've tried different methods and working 1bodypart/week has allowed me to give it my all with every muscle group and have made great strength and muscle gains. Everyone is different and it's a matter of experimenting and learning your body to find what works best for your body.

energi
07-04-2006, 09:38 AM
I used to do each bodypart twice a week (in my 20's), and actually overtrained on that. I found that once a week really helps me increase my strength and muscle size. Maybe it's because I am taller (5'10") and have a harder time putting on significant muscle mass...

everyone is different - and Tom Venuto's BFFM really reinforced to me that I'm doing the right thing...

ChrystalR
07-04-2006, 10:50 PM
WOO HOO!! DB you saved me from having to re-hash something that's already been posted ;) I couldn't have said it better myself darlin'!

~C