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H&K Machineguns
06-30-2006, 07:42 AM
Anyone ever do this to burn fat?

I remember reading it a few times in the Bodyopus book. He explained that it has a less catobolic effect on muscles than cardio.

I don't think I could stand to do it,even if it works well. I have however realized that when I diet down in the Winter it seems a little easier than when I diet down in the Summer time. I wonder if the temp has anything to do with it. I doubt it would especially since I live in AZ.

Getting out of the shower though I seem to look better after taking a cold shower versus a marm shower. I'm 100% sure it's only because the cold water tightens my skin and the warmer water loosens it.Nothjng to do with calories burned in that 12 minute shower.

recyfer
06-30-2006, 07:56 AM
I think the reason you may be burning more in the winter is because your body has to use extra energy to keep you warm unlike summer.

alkemyst
06-30-2006, 09:18 AM
that's probably bad for the nuts.

skelooth
06-30-2006, 09:24 AM
you'd have to be a pretty lazy bastard to sit in a tub of ice water instead of doing cardio.

H&K Machineguns
06-30-2006, 09:35 AM
you'd have to be a pretty lazy bastard to sit in a tub of ice water instead of doing cardio.

It's not really a question of being lazy,but more along the lines of if you had other ways of burning calories,say if you had a broken leg or if you were trapped in the bathroom with the door locked and you were needing to do cardio that night. Besides if it's less likely to be catobolic to your muscle,why wouldn't people here want to know about it.

P01Shooter
06-30-2006, 09:42 AM
I walk around with an ice pack in my shorts to get rid of the fat on my bum.

No, not really.

Seriously, what the hell? Ice baths? We should get in touch with Tony Little and market that! :)

WillDeadliftForFood
06-30-2006, 01:34 PM
I've heard ice baths are good following extremely intense cardio sessions to help recovery. As for fat loss, think of this: fat is your body's insulation. Burning off its fat in a cold environment akin to taking off your heavy coat when a blizzard hits. I would imagine this wouldn't work, although I don't have any scientific studies to back this up. I may search later.

MissVanessa
06-30-2006, 02:29 PM
Anyone ever do this to burn fat?

I remember reading it a few times in the Bodyopus book. He explained that it has a less catobolic effect on muscles than cardio.

I don't think I could stand to do it,even if it works well. I have however realized that when I diet down in the Winter it seems a little easier than when I diet down in the Summer time. I wonder if the temp has anything to do with it. I doubt it would especially since I live in AZ.

Getting out of the shower though I seem to look better after taking a cold shower versus a marm shower. I'm 100% sure it's only because the cold water tightens my skin and the warmer water loosens it.Nothjng to do with calories burned in that 12 minute shower.

Woah, let me give you a lesson in physiology.

A drop in body temperature causes a couple of things:

Vaso and bronchioconstriction
Decrease in heart rate
Decrease in blood pressure
Shunting, which concentrates the blood circulation around the vital organs
A decrease in metabolism due to Parasympathetic Nervous system response
The Mammalian Dive Reflex

All of these mean you will burn FEWER calories than you would at normal ambient temperature. And not just a little less, A LOT less.

This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

VanessaNicole

skelooth
06-30-2006, 02:35 PM
I remember reading an article about the whole 'burn more calories when cold' thing, and the perspective of thought is that you burn more calories by trying to stay warm.

Either which way, I have better things to do with my time than freeze my ass off in a bathtub full of icewater :D

GJWrestle878
06-30-2006, 03:35 PM
but wouldnt you burn just as many calories in summer because its so f-ing hot so your body gets hotter. I always feel like I have had a harder run when I run in the hot sun vs. the cool evening/ night

P01Shooter
06-30-2006, 03:45 PM
^^Just because running in hot weather is more taxing on your body doesn't mean you're burning more calories.

alkemyst
06-30-2006, 04:38 PM
Woah, let me give you a lesson in physiology.

A drop in body temperature causes a couple of things:

Vaso and bronchioconstriction
Decrease in heart rate
Decrease in blood pressure
Shunting, which concentrates the blood circulation around the vital organs
A decrease in metabolism due to Parasympathetic Nervous system response
The Mammalian Dive Reflex

All of these mean you will burn FEWER calories than you would at normal ambient temperature. And not just a little less, A LOT less.

This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

VanessaNicole

not to mention shrinkage.

H&K Machineguns
06-30-2006, 10:19 PM
Woah, let me give you a lesson in physiology.

A drop in body temperature causes a couple of things:

Vaso and bronchioconstriction
Decrease in heart rate
Decrease in blood pressure
Shunting, which concentrates the blood circulation around the vital organs
A decrease in metabolism due to Parasympathetic Nervous system response
The Mammalian Dive Reflex

All of these mean you will burn FEWER calories than you would at normal ambient temperature. And not just a little less, A LOT less.

This is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

VanessaNicole


Then please explain to me that what happens when your body sees temps in the 60's, that it just says no problem we will slow the heart rate down,because we are completely comfortable at 60 degree's. I seriosly doubt it. Just like when your temp is high your body sweats to try and cool itself down.
Why do we shiver when were cold ?????????

MissVanessa
06-30-2006, 10:43 PM
Then please explain to me that what happens when your body sees temps in the 60's, that it just says no problem we will slow the heart rate down,because we are completely comfortable at 60 degree's. I seriosly doubt it. Just like when your temp is high your body sweats to try and cool itself down.
Why do we shiver when were cold ?????????

Your body is a brilliant machine. It can and does maintain homeostasis in vastly varrying conditions. Your body does this by adapting to external conditions.

Even in ice water, your body maintains an internal core temperature almost exactly it's usual body temperature. It doesn't do this by burning more fuel to generate more heat, it does this by reducing the rate of heat loss.

Heat is lost from the body in cold water through the skin to the water, which is an extremely efficient thermoconductor. The body prevents this by shunting blood away from the skin and concentrating it in the core. It also reduces the total volume of blood in peripheral circulation. All of these are results of your nervous system's complex and brilliant mechanism for preserving homeostasis. All forms of metabolism slow down as a result of this parasympathetic nervous system response.

Is this making any sense to you? I don't really know how to explain this to you, but just because something makes logical to you doesn't mean it's true. And in this case it is most certainly not. The human body is stunningly complex and sophisticated.

Shivering are skeletal muscle contractions designed to generate heat. They do not burn calories to an extent that would even come close to compensating for the systemic reduction in energy usage while in cold water.
VanessaNicole

MA5Bergey
06-30-2006, 10:52 PM
meh, even if it did burn calories, can't someone get hypothermia or something from sitting in ice water?

alkemyst
07-01-2006, 09:52 AM
meh, even if it did burn calories, can't someone get hypothermia or something from sitting in ice water?

depending on temperature sure.

JimBad05
07-01-2006, 02:11 PM
I remember reading somewhere that you burn more calories when outside of the "thermoneutral" zone, where your body is comfortable at. My understanding was that your body had to work harder to maintain homeostasis, thus burning more calories.

I understand about metabolic slowdown in cold weather, but what about in hot weather? It always seems to me that if I'm working outside on a nice 60degree day I'm tired later but if I work during 80 or 90 degree weather I'm exhausted after only a few hours. Does this mean hot weather burns more calories?

Shielder
07-01-2006, 02:25 PM
I recently watched discovery with ray remerse or something (survivel expert), it was about some guys that were trying to survive in very cold weather. Those people lost a lot of weight, because their body had to burn a lot of calories to keep the body warm! So there might be some merit to the ice baths, and there good for recovery right after heavy activities!

alkemyst
07-01-2006, 02:55 PM
I remember reading somewhere that you burn more calories when outside of the "thermoneutral" zone, where your body is comfortable at. My understanding was that your body had to work harder to maintain homeostasis, thus burning more calories.

I understand about metabolic slowdown in cold weather, but what about in hot weather? It always seems to me that if I'm working outside on a nice 60degree day I'm tired later but if I work during 80 or 90 degree weather I'm exhausted after only a few hours. Does this mean hot weather burns more calories?

No it just means hot weather causes fatigue.

There is a calorie cost in both being too hot and being too cold...they wash themselves out though and are rather insignificant anyway.

It's the whole myth the sweat suits were sold on.

eatingisfun
07-01-2006, 06:17 PM
It's true that you burn more calories in the cold. Have any of you seen the show Survivorman? I think it's a Canadian show and it's on OLN in Canada. He was surviving for a week in the arctic, -20 C maybe colder, and he was burning 6000 calories a day. I don't know if going in ice water is going to make you burn more calories though but it is true you burn more in the cold.

alkemyst
07-01-2006, 06:33 PM
It's true that you burn more calories in the cold. Have any of you seen the show Survivorman? I think it's a Canadian show and it's on OLN in Canada. He was surviving for a week in the arctic, -20 C maybe colder, and he was burning 6000 calories a day. I don't know if going in ice water is going to make you burn more calories though but it is true you burn more in the cold.

If he was performing similarly in the desert, his calorie expedature would more than likely be within 2-5%.

MissVanessa
07-01-2006, 07:28 PM
I remember reading somewhere that you burn more calories when outside of the "thermoneutral" zone, where your body is comfortable at. My understanding was that your body had to work harder to maintain homeostasis, thus burning more calories.

I understand about metabolic slowdown in cold weather, but what about in hot weather? It always seems to me that if I'm working outside on a nice 60degree day I'm tired later but if I work during 80 or 90 degree weather I'm exhausted after only a few hours. Does this mean hot weather burns more calories?

The most common cause of increase fatigue due to work in hot weather is low grade dehydration due to sweating.

The body is very lazy and very smart. It doesn't work harder to maintain homeostasis in extraoptimal conditions, it has what are called compensatory mechanisms.

For example, in hot weather your body doesn't "work" to cool you down. All it does is send a neurological impulse to the sweat glands which cause them to release salts and water. The evaporation of sweat causes heat loss.

VanessaNicole

Freestyle72
07-01-2006, 07:35 PM
^^Just because running in hot weather is more taxing on your body doesn't mean you're burning more calories.

actually it does a little...your body spends more calories try to cool yourself down by sweating and stuff...similarly when cold it spends more calories by shivering to warm up

Edit:
One of my coaches told me your muscles work harder when ur all hot...and this increases your metabolism more than when u are cooled

Jhawk Fitness
07-01-2006, 08:44 PM
actually it does a little...your body spends more calories try to cool yourself down by sweating and stuff...similarly when cold it spends more calories by shivering to warm up

Edit:
One of my coaches told me your muscles work harder when ur all hot...and this increases your metabolism more than when u are cooled
Your coach was wrong. It is easier for muscles to function when they are warm (why would you warm-up for an activity if it mean't having to work harder?). It is the mind that has to work harder when it's hot. It's much easier for your body to cool itself than it is for it to stay warm.

Thus we have exercise & non-exercise associated thermogenesis. Sitting in a bathtub of icewater would lead to a drop in core temp., as MissVanessa stated, thus leading to a shutdown of some functionality in the body. The logic is right on, you do burn more calories when exercising in a cool environment but there's a big difference between sitting on your butt in a tub of ice & jogging in a 62 degree room.

eatingisfun
07-01-2006, 09:39 PM
But you don't want your core temperature to get too hot because this also leads to fatigue. I was watching a show on the Discovery channel I think, and a guy invented a device that you put your hand in to cool your core temp down when you're excercising. The device circulated cooled water around a cylinder which you placed your hand on. The cooled blood goes back to your core and keeps your body working longer. And he stated the biggest factor for muscle fatigue is heat.

MissVanessa
07-01-2006, 09:56 PM
actually it does a little...your body spends more calories try to cool yourself down by sweating and stuff...similarly when cold it spends more calories by shivering to warm up

Edit:
One of my coaches told me your muscles work harder when ur all hot...and this increases your metabolism more than when u are cooled

Sweating doesn't take extra calories. It is not hard work. It is just a glandular release of water and salts.

VanessaNicole

H&K Machineguns
07-01-2006, 10:28 PM
I heard that if you put somoenes hand in warm water when they are a sleep they will burn extra calories......Oh wait that's somethin else

alkemyst
07-01-2006, 10:40 PM
Sweating doesn't take extra calories. It is not hard work. It is just a glandular release of water and salts.

VanessaNicole

wow glandular is your 59reps in 100 posts ;)

lukee
07-02-2006, 03:15 AM
from what ive learnt the body needs to maintain a bodytemerture the colder it is the more calories burnt to help keep bodytempeture up.

Freestyle72
07-02-2006, 04:29 AM
Your coach was wrong. It is easier for muscles to function when they are warm (why would you warm-up for an activity if it mean't having to work harder?). It is the mind that has to work harder when it's hot. It's much easier for your body to cool itself than it is for it to stay warm.

Thus we have exercise & non-exercise associated thermogenesis. Sitting in a bathtub of icewater would lead to a drop in core temp., as MissVanessa stated, thus leading to a shutdown of some functionality in the body. The logic is right on, you do burn more calories when exercising in a cool environment but there's a big difference between sitting on your butt in a tub of ice & jogging in a 62 degree room.

im not talking about warm....im talking aboiut hot...like a pair of shorts and sweat pants with 3 sweaters all on each other hot...like sauna hot...and dude yes ur metabolism does increase when adjusting to hot or cold weather...i took that in my university food and nutrition class dude

colubrid
07-02-2006, 05:52 AM
You would burn more calories getting off your butt and running out to the mini-mart to get 30 pounds of ice then you would sitting in it.

alkemyst
07-02-2006, 04:49 PM
im not talking about warm....im talking aboiut hot...like a pair of shorts and sweat pants with 3 sweaters all on each other hot...like sauna hot...and dude yes ur metabolism does increase when adjusting to hot or cold weather...i took that in my university food and nutrition class dude

so like how much more like dude?!?

oknative
07-02-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't know which way you will burn more calories but I do know that it takes energy to keep your body warm when your core temp drops. Someone previously mentioned the reasoning behind shivering. I believe there was a supplement company that was promoting a supplement that worked in this fashion at one time. During a lab test in school once I was the guinea pig for an experiment that took BP and HR readings at various temperatures. In the final test I had to dip ONE arm into an ice bath for about 20 minutes and take incremental readings every 5 minutes. The ice bath sucked but I got through & at about the 5 minute mark I started sweating profusely as if I just got done doing cardio for an hour. My overall temp seemed to increase and I continued sweating for many minutes after pulling my arm out of the water. This vary concept crossed my mind as well but I never really looked into it. It's easy to duplicate give it a try with just an ARM and see for yourself.

Freestyle72
07-02-2006, 09:01 PM
Actually i have a question for Miss Vanessa as she is very knowledgeable in the subject. First is sweating the only reaction body has towards heat?...secondly which water supply does the body draw from when releasing sweat? is it form the blood or what?

Brently
07-02-2006, 09:32 PM
It's not really a question of being lazy,but more along the lines of if you had other ways of burning calories,say if you had a broken leg or if you were trapped in the bathroom with the door locked and you were needing to do cardio that night. Besides if it's less likely to be catobolic to your muscle,why wouldn't people here want to know about it.


If I was locked in a bathroom. I would want to conserve calories if anything.

alkemyst
07-03-2006, 07:02 AM
If I was locked in a bathroom. I would want to conserve calories if anything.

heh, yeah I think that would be one of those days where you could feel not guilty about missing a workout.

Another good time would be should terrorists/criminals take a group you are in hostage overnight. No one here would say you cheated if you missed a workout in that situation.

H&K Machineguns
07-03-2006, 10:22 AM
heh, yeah I think that would be one of those days where you could feel not guilty about missing a workout.

Another good time would be should terrorists/criminals take a group you are in hostage overnight. No one here would say you cheated if you missed a workout in that situation.

Also if you had the squrts really bad that day and everytime you farted a few drips came out. That probably would be a good day to skip a work out either,especially on squat day.Okay guys were are we going with this ?

Nights
07-03-2006, 10:30 AM
It defiinitely does take more calories to warm yourself up.

Climbers who go up everest have to take in something like 8k a day.

alkemyst
07-03-2006, 01:30 PM
Also if you had the squrts really bad that day and everytime you farted a few drips came out. That probably would be a good day to skip a work out either,especially on squat day.Okay guys were are we going with this ?

we are slowing exiting the thread. ;)

user34566548717114
07-03-2006, 03:34 PM
its called put the cupcake DOWN!!!

its that simple diet makes you lean stop being lazy and suck it up

DAVO17
09-05-2006, 06:26 PM
Shivering does burn ALOT of calories, but at that point your body is not functioning optimally-if you are shivering you are by definition hypothermic. I dont know if an icewater bath would work, but I can say that keeping your environment cooler (not hypothermic) will burn more calories, if very few. When excersising it makes it easier to go longer.
Its true that in cold climates the diet is often very high calorie, much of which is from fats-its a clean source of energy in the very cold.

amjzzz
09-05-2006, 06:36 PM
I started adding ice cubes to all my baths and I must say, it's been the single best thing I've ever done. I gave up cardio and eating right weeks ago.

XtremeBody510
09-05-2006, 06:56 PM
1 WORD...........shrinkage!!!

Easy Gainer
09-05-2006, 06:57 PM
Just dunk your balls in ice cold water, I bet you give up on the whole idea.

mpawlicki
09-06-2006, 08:35 AM
I have never seen a skinny man in cold climate. Seems like they all have extra fat to keep them from freezing.

There is some advantage, at least I read about it, to quickly switching from hot shower to ice cold water for a period of few minutes after a work out. This supposely speeds up blood flow to the muscles thus delivering the nutrients.

DJohnson
09-06-2006, 08:56 AM
I started adding ice cubes to all my baths and I must say, it's been the single best thing I've ever done. I gave up cardio and eating right weeks ago.

LOL

And us cold Canadians have almost the same obesity rate as the US. The difference can probably be attributed to the fact that our fast food portions are slightly smaller on average. ;)

Makoa
09-06-2006, 11:14 AM
Due to various injuries, I've had to soak a few body parts in ice cold water. It ain't fun. All I can say is that I think I would burn more calories getting the f*** out of the ice cold tub than I would while in it.

Need2ShapeUp
09-06-2006, 03:24 PM
1 WORD...........shrinkage!!!
Off topic slightly but...

Fertility clinics routinely have men take very long cold baths to increase sperm production.

Cold = Good for testicular health if not their appearance.

amjzzz
09-06-2006, 03:35 PM
Here's a recent pic so you can see what I mean. It's relaxing to sit in a tub of ice on a chilly day. Whenever I feel like I can't take it anymore I just keep thinking about the increased sperm production.




http://isnt-that-cute.com/ornament_icetubsnowman.jpg

mpawlicki
09-07-2006, 06:00 AM
Fertility clinics routinely have men take very long cold baths to increase sperm production.

What good is more sperm for when you got the shrinkage?

try_harder
09-07-2006, 07:12 PM
If you want to burn a LOT of calories using the "immerse yourself in ice water" method, all you have to do is go scuba diving up here in Vancouver! The water temp is a steady 42F (coldish) and youre swimming/kicking your legs the whole time... not to mention the fantastic sea-life you get to see...

But honestly, Every time I go, I have to eat 3-4 times what i normally do (which is a lot already) otherwise i totally starve ;) The only issue is that anecdotally, people who Dont excercise in methods other than scubadiving tend to develop a layer of blubber around their bodies as an attempt to stop the body from burning so many calories while zipping around underwater...

SO: you CAN burn fat by immersion in cold water, BUT if you do it regularly your body will GAIN fat UNLESS you excercise... which is what you were likely avoiding by immersing yourself in water in the first place.

Moral: excercise is not able to be replaced by lazyness

writeknight
09-08-2006, 03:47 PM
I would love it if someone could find some research to back this up one way or the other. The last time we had this discussion I thought I found some studies with rats in controlled temperature environments, but the studies and their conclusions were very difficult to figure out and apply.

Even with all the body's tricks to conserve heat, I doubt it can burn fewer total calories when submerged in ice water than when sitting in an easy chair at room temperature. But even if it's burning more calories in the ice water, I still want to know: how many more calories? Are burning those calories worth the hassle?

Rather than spending an hour in ice water, can I get a similar effect by wearing fewer clothes during the day, sleeping under fewer covers at night, and lowering the thermostat at home and work? Let's say I'm really gung ho and I lower the temperature my body experiences by an average of 4 degrees, 24 hours per day.

Buckle up and put on your geek-proof goggles. Heat flow is proportional to the temperature difference. Let's assume a daily food intake of 2000 kcal for weight maintenance. Let's assume my body averages 98.6F across the day and the environment averages 70F.

By Ohm's law for heat flow we have:
kcals = temp_diff / R
2000 = (98.6 - 70) / R
R = (98.6 - 70) / 2000
R = 0.0143
R is a measure of the body's overall insulation value.

Now to lower the average environment temp by 4F, we plug in 66 instead of 70.
We use the same R just calculated:
kcals = (98.6 - 66) / R
kcals = (98.6 - 66) / 0.0143
kcals = 2280

Therefore, if R stayed the same and we lowered the temperature of our environment by 4 degrees on average over the day, we would burn 280 more calories. But R won't stay the same, because the body will do some tricks to lose less heat. So let's be conservative and say we only burn half that many more calories: that's still 140 calories a day burned for doing "nothing". Roughly equivalent to 15 minutes of jogging. If you can stand it, it might be worth trying to keep your body cooler throughout the day. Or you can do it in a short burst by sitting in icewater. Somebody else can attempt that calculation. ;)

alkemyst
09-08-2006, 05:13 PM
it may work, but I don't think casual submersion will work. I think I may get terminated and possibly arrested sticking my nutz under the office water cooler :)

It you have the cash, or live in a place where driving to a different climate is possible....Training hot and cold would probably cause some nice body adaptations.

P01Shooter
09-08-2006, 08:52 PM
So.....who's going to be the guniea pig and do an ice bath fat loss log?

I'm in awe this thread is still alive.