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View Full Version : A steady cutting plan...? advice needed



stacey 010
06-20-2006, 04:28 PM
ok...so as most of you know i was training for a comp..but clearly severely over-training and or not eating enough carbs etc...and now it has come to back to bite me on the ass. I have taken a few days off and literally just slept the whole time and studied for exams...So, its time to get back into it and I need to change my program. Im looking for both suggestions and anyone to give me a hands up on if im doing something wrong or not...my goal...to get down to about 15% bf, leaving me about 13% to shed. YIKES...I know :(
So, I was thinking od a 5-day training split and incorporating SS cardio and HIIT. Cardio will be at 6am, weights at round 6:30pm.

M: HIIT (20min + 10min walk) + chest, calves
T: SS carido 45min + back, abs
W: HIIT (20min + 10min walk) off weight training
T: SS cardio 45min + legs
F: HIIT (20min + 10min walk) + shoulders, abs
S: SS cardio 45min + arms, calves
S: Complete rest day..maybe yoga

Now with my diet I was going to cylce my carbs...3 days low-carb (45% protein, 25% carbs, 30% fat), with one higher day (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat). So, mon-wed = low carb, thur=higher carb (ie: day I train legs), fri-sat=low carb, sund=higher carb (not sure if this should be low and monday should be high because it is a rest day...?any suggestions)...?

So thats a big change, with a total of 3 x 30min HIIT sessions and 3 45min SS sessions. And more focus on weight training. Each body part trainined once a week, focusing on 4-5 exercises per session, 3-5 sets per exercise and heavy heavy heavy. Adding a few super-sets and drop sets in there..my goal is to put on as much muscle and shed the fat as possible...which i know my body can do...
whad you guys all think...??
:)
Stace

iyamamaschke
06-20-2006, 04:33 PM
WOW I just wanna say that's a lot of Working out if you did this Before I understand why you got Burnt out. Are you taking any suppliments like vits and minerals along with your training just curious it's a good thing to have. As for the training part I am new to all the cutting so I will wait for someone with a lot more Knowlegde then me to answer that I am in the learning stage.

Sarah

stacey 010
06-20-2006, 04:45 PM
WOW I just wanna say that's a lot of Working out if you did this Before I understand why you got Burnt out. Are you taking any suppliments like vits and minerals along with your training just curious it's a good thing to have. As for the training part I am new to all the cutting so I will wait for someone with a lot more Knowlegde then me to answer that I am in the learning stage.

Sarah

Hi sarah, the plan i designed above is a relatively light plan to what i was doing last week...but is seriously burn me out while studying at the same time. I was doing 90min of cardio every day...60min was SS cardio, 30min usually faster paced HIIT-like but probably not the intensity of it. I was doing 60min in the morning, and 30min after an hour of weight training 5 days a week, then on weekend 90mins of straight cardio, or 45min of plyometrics and a 45min walk in the afternoon. All while on a lower-carb (45% protein, 25% carbs, 30% fat). I manged this for about 8weeks, made huge gains, lost over 5% bf and gained over 2kg of muscle, but lost my energy and personality with it hehe...

So i was very much over training my body...but only was doing what my trainer told me to do...in order to be ready in 16weeks...but im not willing to kill myself to get onstage. there are plenty of comps and id prefer to do it a healthier way and enter in march next year so i can prep over the summer when i dont have uni... :)

so im hoping this will be of a more steady program with more recovery time involved. I havent incorporated cheat meals or anything tho....i can post a sample of both low and high carb days too if anyone wants to make any suggestions to them... :)
cheers,
stace

imperfectly_lou
06-20-2006, 05:43 PM
The problem is... you are still 16 weeks out. You need to have room to move. If you throw all your eggs in the basket now, what are you going to do when you are 6, 4, 3 weeks out? So I would recommend you cut your activity level down severely and increase your carbs a little so you can make gradual decreases.

stacey 010
06-20-2006, 05:51 PM
hey lou, yeah i totally agree with you...but i have decided to not compete in oct. I just dont have enough time...16 weeks is not enough time to shed well over 13% bf...thats about 1% a week and i dont have time or energy to spend that long in the gym.
So im going to take it easier (hence the program above) and shoot for march. Hopefully by then, i will have shed the fat at a slower pace, put on some muscle and not killed myself.

Actually i was going to ask you about a good 3-day split program...im thinking of changing things up a bit for a while and wanted some advice...
was thinking about and please help me out if im way off... :)

1. chest, back, bis
2. quads, hams, calves
3. shoulders, traps, tris

sticking to 2-3 exercises per body part and 3sets per exercise?

imperfectly_lou
06-20-2006, 07:14 PM
Ahhh ok I see.

Well if you are looking to compete in March, I would focus on adding some more muscle now then. The more muscle you have, the better you will look come competition time, plus it will be much easier to cut.

In terms of what you have outlined, I wouldn't do chest and back on the one day. They are both major muscle groups and should be trained either on their own or with a small muscle group. However, in my experience, full body routines are more advanced and superior for most people.

stacey 010
06-20-2006, 07:29 PM
ok cool..
um..what bout

chest, shoudlers, traps
quads, hams, calves
back, biceps, triceps

what other split would you suggest...for adding good mass?

so, id do three day on (mon, tue, wed) one day off (thur) and repeat (fri-sun), mon off etc.

imperfectly_lou
06-20-2006, 07:35 PM
As I said, I think full body routines are best but otherwise, what you have outlined looks quite good.

You could also look at a program like Max-OT.

stacey 010
06-21-2006, 12:35 AM
As I said, I think full body routines are best but otherwise, what you have outlined looks quite good.

You could also look at a program like Max-OT.

thanks lou...
p.s whats the program MAX-OT? Any links where i can have a look or should i just type it into google?

Hfit
06-21-2006, 08:24 AM
Just a quick tip - Another approach would be to keep your carbs at a steady amount. It will help give you energy to get through your workouts. If you start carb cycling now you run the chance of plateauing. CARBS WILL NOT MAKE YOU FAT! Try a 40%40%20% Split and adjust as necessary. Everyone is different so you have to see what works and stick with it.
Train heavy for lean mass gains. Limit cardio to 3 or 4 sessions a week. Good Luck!

imperfectly_lou
06-21-2006, 10:22 PM
thanks lou...
p.s whats the program MAX-OT? Any links where i can have a look or should i just type it into google?

Its on the AST website.

Dogmama
06-22-2006, 04:46 AM
I agree with Lou about full body routines being superior. I've designed a routine where I'm lifting 3X/week full body - but emphasizing different areas each time chest / back / legs.

It works well because if my job gets in the way and I have to postpone one day, it doesn't completely mess up my lifting schedule. The whole routine, warm up & stretching, takes 60-90 minutes. Leg-emphasis-day is always a bit longer because I need more rest between sets doing squats, lunges, etc.

I also like to superset when possible. It keeps me focused, provides a light cardio lift and saves time. For example, I'll do bench presses and rows (with the same bar - lean forward - it's a good core exercise too) or dips/pull ups.

HFit is right about the carbs. When I'm training hard, I cannot carb cycle (I hate to carb cycle anyway - wrecks my mood.) Cheat meals just set up cravings for me, so I avoid them. I just eat clean 7 days/week (OK, except for the tiny bit of dark chocolate every evening.)

stacey 010
06-23-2006, 02:13 AM
ok....well after much deliberation and wonderful advice from everyone on this forum I have re-evaluated my cutting plan...please critique as i need all the guidance i can get...
heres my eating plan...i have changed the marcos to 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat and will do this for a while instead of carb cycling and allow myself a cheat meal once a week..
this equates to approx. 150g protein, 112g carbs and 50g fat per day on 1500 cals a day which is my bmr.

meal 1:
5 whites + 1 yolk; 1/4 oatbran; 75g berries; 10ml l.s.a (made into a pancake and topped with natural yogurt)

meal 2:
3 wholemeal rice cakes topped with 10g almond paste; 1 scoop WPC

meal 3:
100g chicken breast; 120g sweet potato; green veggies; 5ml flaxseed oil

meal 4: (pre-workout)
100g tuna; 25g wholemeal pasta or brown rice; green veggies

meal 5:(post-workout)
1 scoop WPI; 1/4 cup jasmine rice

meal 6:
120g steak; green veggies; 10ml flaxseed oil

My weight training will be a 4day split which I may eventually change to a 3-day split

monday:
40mins SS cardio (optional) + weights (chest, triceps, abs)

tuesday:
HIIT (20mins + 25min stead walk)

wednesday:
40min SS cardio (optional) + (back, calves, abs)

thursday:
HIIT (20mins + 25min walk)

friday:
40min SS cardio (optional) + (quads, hams)

saturday:
HIIT (20min + 25min walk) + (shoulders, traps, biceps, abs)

sunday:
total rest day!!!

so, im going to base my cardio on interval and have the optional choice to do cardio on alternate days if I feel like it... :)
Im going to keep my workouts to 1hour max and may eventually change to a 3-day split of (1) chest, shoulders, traps (2) legs (3) Back, biceps, triceps and abs on interval days which will be every other day ... :)

im going to stick to 4-5 exercises per body part with the 4-day split and go heavy all the way, and when i drop back to the 3-day split, it will be 3 exercises and im going to incorporate supersetting and drop sets... :)

I feel very happy with this program and will be spending less time at the gym...yay
and allowing myself plenty of time to recover as the SS cardio wont be very intense at all, more recovery sessions.... :)
stace

stacey 010
06-23-2006, 02:15 AM
haha...just previewed my post and have no idea where those faces came from...haha

sherdi
06-23-2006, 02:19 AM
Looking better, although 1500 calories is way to low Stacey. This is you BMR, which means what you need if you were BED RIDDEN! Because you are highly active, you should be eating at least above your BMR...I would suggest 20% under maintenance calories for cutting. However, if you are not going to be competing till next year, shouldn't you be eating to at least maintenance (if not above maintenance so that you can add some more good quality muscle between then and now?). I am also going to be competing in Melbourne in March and I am currently bulking and eating aprox. 2400 calories per day and making nice, slow gains. Just my opinion! Good luck! :)

stacey 010
06-23-2006, 02:40 AM
Looking better, although 1500 calories is way to low Stacey. This is you BMR, which means what you need if you were BED RIDDEN! Because you are highly active, you should be eating at least above your BMR...I would suggest 20% under maintenance calories for cutting. However, if you are not going to be competing till next year, shouldn't you be eating to at least maintenance (if not above maintenance so that you can add some more good quality muscle between then and now?). I am also going to be competing in Melbourne in March and I am currently bulking and eating aprox. 2400 calories per day and making nice, slow gains. Just my opinion! Good luck! :)

hi sherdi,
thanks for the advice...how do i workout my maintenance level...? I was always under the assumption (from trainers etc) that i shouldnt be eating any more because i still have a great deal of fat to shed...? very confused...? would my maintentance be about 1800-2000?

sherdi
06-23-2006, 03:06 AM
If your BMR is 1500 you times that by 1.5 (for activity level) this will give you: 2250. I am guess you would be somewhere around this. So if you are wanting to shed fat, I would suggest eating aprox. 20-25% under your maintenance. You could even get away with eating more. I recomp on 10% below maintenance (lose fat and build muscle).

25% below maintenance = 1687.5calories.
20% below maintenane = 1800 calories.

I would recommend you up your calories to this range 1687 - 1800 calories (no less!!! even on non-workout days). I am sure you will see good results from eating in this range. However, everyone is different and you would need to tweak it accordingly. Good luck! :)

stacey 010
06-23-2006, 03:47 AM
hi sherdi thanks for the pointers...so maybe i could add a scoop of slow release protein powder before bed or up my chicken and tuna at meal 3 and 4 from 100g to say 150g? Or peerhaps more calories post-workout...say 1.5 scoops of wpi and 1/2 of rice and more protein poweder at my 2nd meal?
thanks heaps for your advice...i have just been so scared to increase my cals because i thought id get fat...but after reading so many posts about losing more once you

stacey 010
06-23-2006, 03:49 AM
increase calories and cut down on cardio...im willing to try anything...cheers,
stace

imperfectly_lou
06-23-2006, 05:45 AM
I would recommend you also drop your HIIT down to 1-2 times a week. You should be putting absolutely all your effort into your weight training. I know when I do so, I have very little "left in the tank" for HIIT. Just something to think about...

stacey 010
06-23-2006, 04:00 PM
hey lou,
thanks heaps for the advice...i am willing to try anything to help me build muscle, lose fat and not spend 50 hours at the gym...but i am really nervous about cutting out all that cardio....
im thinking of getting rid of the ss cardio and sticking to 3 HIITs per week. Is that better...ohhh...very scared...or should i drop the ss cardio and 1 HIIT....
i Have just re-evaluated my diet again and have increased my calories to 1800 per day (AAAGGGHHHH) and will go up slowly from there.
I increased my protein in meal 2, 3, 4, and my post workout carbs and protein...so hope it goes ok...
thanks guys for all the advice and guidance....you have all been wonderful!!
stace

sherdi
06-23-2006, 05:25 PM
Listen to Lou Stacey, she knows what she is talking about! I would definitely be decreasing your HIIT cardio. I am bulking at the moment and not doing any HIIT and my increases have been slow and steady.

Also try to have real food (as opposed to adding in more protein powder), as real food is much better for the body and you will respond better as they are considered thermogenic. After seeing you post in the nutrition section, Don't be afraid of fruit either! As long as you have it with a complete meal (protein/carbs/fat) there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't have a little fruit (even if it is just 1/2 serve). You might find that you are less carb sensitive that you think! I also used to think the same thing but now eat more carbs than protein and I am doing very well. Good luck! :)

justagirrl
06-25-2006, 06:36 PM
I wouldn't do any more then 2 HIIT (without the 25min. walk) and maybe one SS.

Even then, you're going to have a hard time building muscle.

I'm with Lou on the fullbody workouts. Much better option then working each bodypart once per week.

stacey 010
06-27-2006, 08:46 PM
I wouldn't do any more then 2 HIIT (without the 25min. walk) and maybe one SS.

Even then, you're going to have a hard time building muscle.

I'm with Lou on the fullbody workouts. Much better option then working each bodypart once per week.

hey,
yup i know. im actually going to stick to walking for a while and run when i feel like it...so cardio a few times a week but nothing too stressful...as for weights...im not sur ef im ready to get back into it....soome days a want to other days i dont...s i think hitting the gym for strength training 3 times a week max is plenty for me..anyone have good examples of fullbody workouts? Ive never worked out my fullbody in one session only tried the upper/lower dpit and the upper body takes ages...
any tips...im assuning you stick to compound movements?

Dogmama
06-28-2006, 04:48 AM
During cycling season, I only do full body. I try to emphasize one body area each time, though. So, for example one workout might be:
Deadlifts
Seated ham curls
Incline dumbbell press
Rows
Military press
Incline bicep curls
French press
seated calves
and one extra compound for the body part I'm emphasizing, e.g., maybe pull ups if I'm doing back for that workout.

I change it for the next workout to keep things interesting. So the next workout might be:

Squats or leg press (depending on how tired my legs are from riding)
Supine ham curls
Bench press
Chins
Lateral delt raise
Seated bicep curls
Rope tricep pushdown
Standing calf
and maybe decline press or flyes if it is chest day

I periodize the workout so that each set of workouts uses slightly heavier weights or more reps. I do that for six workouts. Then, I drop back for a week.

This is a slightly modified version from the HST website:

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

They don't do the emphasis on one body part each workout. I'm still kicking my "if you don't work a split, you ain't workin' the muscle" habit - so I toss in an extra compound.

stacey 010
07-04-2006, 03:31 PM
ok...so im thinking about spending the next 12 weeks focusing just on muscle gain (NOPE NOT FAT LOSS) and see how I progress..
I havent decided whether to do the HST full-body workouts or An upper/lower split...whad you reckon...? How long does it take most of you guys to get thru your full-body split?
Also, i have increased my calories to 1800 per day which is about 20% under maintenance, im just a little scared at the moment to bump them up further. On my day off I do increase them to maintenance or just a little over. Im having a hard time eating that many calories a day. Its easy to eat **** and char down 2000, but to eat 1800 cals of good food...takes some serious work.
Now, I should stick to interval just 1-2 times a week?
I will post my new diet as well. I was going to stick to 45%protein, 30$ carbs, 25% fat...only because im pretty carb sensitive and that gives my 135g of carbs per day which is heaps for me...or should i do a 40/40/20 split...ugh...too many things to consider.
I was then going to spend 12weeks after that on cutting, doing 3 weights sessions a week and 3 intervals...?
My goal is to put on a fair few more kgs of muscle and to get down to 15% bf.

My macro breakdown is about 200g of protein, 135g of carbs and 50g fat
Im shooting for 33g of protein; 22g of carbs and 10g of fat per meal..minus no fat in the post workout shake...?

meal 1:
6 whites + 1yolk
1/3 cup oatbran
10ml l.s.a made into a pancake and spread with 3dspns of natural yogurt

meal 2:
1 scoop of WPC
100g blueberries
200ml milk
10ml flaxseed oil made into a thickshake

meal 3+4+5 (eating meal 4 like this will be hard once im back at uni so probably have to make it a shake)

120g chicken, fish or beef
green vegies
120g potato
5ml flaxseed oil

post-training
1.5 scoops WPI
1/2 cup jasmine rice

on non-weight training days this post training meal will be a pre-bed meal of cottage cheese and probably yogurt with a few berries..

any advice...please feel free to rip it to bits.
luv n hugs
stace