PDA

View Full Version : Thermolife FAQs



391rippy
06-09-2006, 02:40 PM
Instead of answering a bunch of PMs daily asking the same questions over and over again we will be posting FAQs to all of the ThermoLife products in this thread, beginning with Ecdysten. Stizm and Zappetite will be up by this weekend.



Ecdysten F.A.Q.

<img src="http://www.thermolife.com/store/ProdImages/ecdysten.gif"


What is Ecdysten?
Ecdysten is the premier Ecdysterone product extracted from Rhaponcticum Carthamoides. Each capsule contains 15mg Ecdysterone and 5mg Bioperine.

What is Ecdysterone?
Ecdysterone (a.k.a. 20-beta-hydroxyecdysterone, 20-hydroxyecdysone, 20-hydroxyecdysterone, 20E, ekdisterone, etc.) is an ecdysteroid that is extracted from the Rhaponcticum Carthamoide plant that is native to South Siberia.

The History of Ecdysterone
The Rhaponcticum Carthamoide plant was also known as the maral root, named after a variety of local deer that ate the plant. The plant was found to have adaptogenic and anabolic properties when people began to notice that deer that ate maral root were more muscular and were able to survive the winters better than other deer. During WW2 the Soviet Army needed a medicine that could improve healing and health of its soldiers on the battle field. A batch of Rhaponcticum Carthamoides were sent to the Soviets to research. After research showed the plant to be effective it was sent to the battlefield where it helped soldiers to http://www.mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle/shorten their reaction time to battle stress. During the 1960s researchers were able to extract Ecdysterone from the plant, and began many different studies on the extract, many of which are still used today.

What the hell does Ecdysterone do?
Ecdysterone promotes growth
Ecdysterone was shown to promote growth in mice(Okui et al., 1968; Syrov and Kurmukov, 1975a&b; 1976a-c, Syrov et al., 1978, 1981a; Stopka et al., 1999) , pigs (Kratky et al. 1997), and Japanese Quail (Slama et a. 1996). So what does this mean? Ecdysterone will make your pets hyooooooge. But what does this mean for bodybuilders? These studies and a few others found that Ecdysterone is able to increase protein synthesis, which is what building muscle is all about.
How does it increase protein synthesis?
It stimulates the incorporation of Leucine in a cell-free translation system, meaning that it increases the efficiency of protein translation.
Ecdysterone and glucose metabolism
20E stimulates the incorporation of glucose into glycogen and protein in mouse liver (Yoshida et al., 1971) and more generally it enhances glucose utilization by tissues (Syrov et al., 1997a). The mechanism involved seems to be an increase of tissue sensitivity to insulin (Kosovsky et al., 1989).
Ecdysterone and lipid metabolism
Ecdysteroids display hypocholesterolaemic effects (Lupien et al., 1969; Mironova et al., 1982; Syrov et al., 1983), through a reduction of cholesterol biosynthesis and an increase of its catabolism (Uchiyama and Yoshida, 1974). 20E (5 mg/kg per os) stimulates the conversion of cholesterol into bile acids in rats (Syrov et al., 1986b), and such an effect is reminiscent of some oxysterols (Schroepfer, 2000). In connection with these effects, ecdysteroids may also have antiatherosclerotic actions (Matsuda et al., 1974; Syrov et al., 1983). Intraperitoneally injected 20E (0.5 mg/ kg in rats) also enhances [14C]acetate incorporation into liver triglycerides and reduces triglyceride lipase activity (Catalán et al., 1985).
Ecdysterone stimulates hepatic functions
20E accelerates recovery after hepatitis induced by heliotrine treatment (Syrov et al., 1981b). 20E and other ecdysteroids (turkesterone, cyasterone) administered (10 mg/kg) to rats with hepatitis induced by subcutaneous injection of carbon tetrachloride prevent its hepatotoxic action (Syrov et al., 1992). Moreover, a pretreatment with 20E (5 mg/kg) for one week will reduce the effects of a subsequent heliotrine treatment (Badal’yants et al., 1996).
Ecdysterone improves lung and heart function
20E has been recommended for the prevention of myocardial ischaemia, arrhythmia and is described as enhancing VEGF expression (Wu, 2001). An antiarrhythmic effect of 20E was also reported by Kurmukov and Yermishina (1991) and Yang et al. (1996), and an extract of Leuzea carthamoides containing high amounts of 20E also showed a similar effect (Maimeskulova and Malslov, 2000). In rabbits experimentally rendered atherosclerotic (by a high cholesterol diet), 20E (10 mg/kg/day per os) given for 28 days was able to increase Na+/K+ ATPase in myocardium (Khushbaktova et al., 1987). Intravenous injection of 20E showed also a therapeutic effect after lung contusion (Wu et al., 1997, 1998a).
Ecdysterone improves renal function
when rats are given a nephrotoxic mixture (uranyl acetate + glycerol), 20E (5 mg/kg) seems thereafter able to restore a normal glomerular filtration rate and to suppress albuminuria (Saatov et al., 1999; Syrov and Khushbaktova, 2001).
Ecdysterone improves the immune system
various
immunomodulatory effects of ecdysteroids have been described. Single intraperitoneal injections of various ecdysteroids (20E, 2dE, 2d20E, polB, turkesterone, 1-5 mg/kg) increase the concentration of antibody-forming cells in the spleen of mice immunised with sheep red blood cells (Sakhibov et al., 1989). Low (7.5x10-12-7.5x10- 8 M) concentrations of 20E induce the activation (E-rosette formation test) of human lymphocytes (Trenin et al., 1996; Trenin and Volodin, 1999). Low to moderate (10-12-10-5 M) concentrations of 20E or other ecdysteroids stimulate, whereas higher (10-4M) concentrations eventually inhibit, DNA synthesis in concanavalin A – activated lymphocytes (Kuzmitsky et al., 1990; Fomovska et al., 1992; Chiang et al., 1992). 20E (10-20 mg/kg/day per os) has antiinflammatory properties similar to cortisone acetate in rats and mice (Kurmukov and Syrov, 1988; Fomovska et al., 1992) and turkesterone improves lung defense mechanisms in diabetic rats (Najmutdinova and Saatov, 1999). 20E was shown to inhibit in a dose-dependent fashion (10-9- 10-4 M) histamine release from rat peritoneal mast cell induced by anti-IgE or concanavailin A (Takei et al., 1991). Taniguchi et al. (1997).
Ecdysterone has antioxidant properties
20E has antioxidative and anti-free radical properties (Osynska et al., 1992) and it can thus reduce lipid peroxidation (Kuzmenko et al., 1997, 2001). Several models were used in these studies, as the chemiluminescence of blood serum induced by H2O2 using rats receiving a vitamin D-deficient diet eventually supplemented with 0.1 mg 20E/kg per day, or the uptake of oxygen by methyl linoleate micelles in the presence or absence of 20E.
So what does all of that mean?
Not only is ecdysterone scientifically proven to be safe and effective at increasing muscle growth, it has plenty of other effects that are good for your health.
Are there any side-effects of Ecdysterone?
Yes. Imanotareal et al. 2006 found that when users consume Ecdysten there is a rapid increase in the number of bruises across the torso, chest, and arms from hot naked chicks throwing themselves at the patients. Other than that, no side effects have been reported.

(source: Lafont R., Dinan L. 2003.)

Bioperine....what the hell is that?
Bioperine® is a standardized extract from the fruit of Piper nigrum L (black pepper) or Piper longum L (long pepper). It contains 95 percent of piperine. Bioperine® is the only product sourced out of piperine to obtain a patented status for its ability to increase the bioavailability of nutritional compounds. Secondly, it is the only source from piperine to have undergone clinical studies in the U.S. to substantiate its safety and efficacy for nutritional use. (from the bioperine website).
What does it do Simply put, bioperine slows the degredation of ecdysterone and many other supplements in the liver. This makes them more effective by increasing the lengths of their half-lives. Bioperine is very important to oral ecdysterone supplementation because ecdysterone has a very short half-life.
Are there any dangers or health benefits of bioperine?
Supplementation of piperine (50 mg/kg bwt) enhanced the detoxification enzymes and reduced DNA damage as determined by single cell electrophoresis.
Piperine supplementation to tumour-induced animals significantly lowered the phase-I enzymes (NADPH-C reductase, cyt-p450 and cyt-b5)) and there was a rise in glutathione-metabolizing enzymes (GPx, GR and G6PDH), which indicated an antitumour and anti-cancer effect.
Overall, the data indicate that the features of these commonly used food ingredients or endogenous bile salts can effectively improve bioavailability of various BCS Class III and Class IV drugs.
Since the lowest dose of 1.12 mg of piperine per kg body weight had no immunotoxic effect, it may be considered as immunologically safe "no observed adverse effect level (NOAEL)" dose.
use of piperine to reduce toxicity of certain oral pharmacological agents (in this case, anti-inflammatory and pain-relief action) is another unexpected benefit of this compound.
(source: Trouble in a thread on bioperine)
Bioperine used in small amounts should not have any adverse health effects and should be effective at increasing the bioavailability of ecdysterone.



....to be continued in the next post due to the *** **** 10,000 character limit

391rippy
06-09-2006, 02:41 PM
What kind of results should I expect from Ecdysten?
Increased muscle fullness, an all day “pumped” feeling, increased muscle growth, improved strength, improved endurance, shortened recovery time from exercise, increased number of panties thrown at you, leaner gains while bulking, increased muscle retention while cutting.
How much should I use?
According to “Anabolic activity of phytoecdysone-ecdysterone isolated from Rhaponticum carthamoides.” Syrov VN ; Kurmukov AG Farmakol Toksikol, 39(6):690-3 1976 Nov-Dec, 5mg/kg/6.2 is an effective dosing for ecdysterone in humans (the /6.2 is the conversion for mice to humans).
This would mean that a 160lber would need 59mg (4 caps), a 180lber would need 66mg (5 caps), a 200lber would need 73mg (5 caps), etc. as a minimum. The recommended dosage is this minimum amount plus 2 caps. This will yield good results at a cost-effective price. Ecdysterone is even more effective at higher rates and takes an enormous amount before you get to a point of dimishing returns, so if you have the money, more caps will yield much better results.
Should Ecdysten be taken with meals?
Yes!
How many times a day should i take Ecdysten?
3-6 times a day, with meals. Take Ecdysten with your preworkout meal to make your workout more anabolic.
How long should I use Ecdysten? Should I cycle?
Suggested cycle length can be anywhere from 3-12 weeks, with ¼ cycle time for breaks (if you have 4 week cycle, a one week break would be recommended before starting another cycle).
How is Ecdysten different from “the real Russian Ecdysterone”?
The words on Thermolife Ecdysten are in English. Ecdysten IS the “real Russian Ecdysterone.” It is bought from a reputable source in Russia and is lab certified. This stuff is the real deal.
How is Ecdysterone from Rhaponcticum Carthamoides different from Cyanatis Vaga?
My only answer to this is to try both extracts at the same amount and see for yourself. There are no studies done on the difference between the extracts, only anecdotal feedback which does suggest that there is a difference between the two.
I thought ecdysterone was proven to be bunk years ago? Why is it making a comeback?
The reason for the “comeback” is that people are finally catching on that companies in the past were either using bunk ecdysterone or were underdosing their products. EAS was actually sued for not even meeting 50% of their label claims.

391rippy
06-09-2006, 02:54 PM
links to some Ecdysten reviews or logs:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=799981
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=677105
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=795289
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=791938
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=781193
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=741025
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=708776
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=675428
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=695305
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=675753

dito
06-09-2006, 03:33 PM
I love Rippy!

Bloute
06-09-2006, 03:44 PM
Great job 391rippy. :D

Coulaid
06-09-2006, 04:54 PM
Nice job... will Dicana be one of the faqs?

391rippy
06-09-2006, 05:02 PM
Nice job... will Dicana be one of the faqs?
only if you will get down on your knees and beg for it

Coulaid
06-09-2006, 05:05 PM
only if you will get down on your knees and beg for it
I'm sure dito will be willing ;)

beer20
06-09-2006, 05:11 PM
Nice job... will Dicana be one of the faqs?
i would like to see that also...
no ,i will not get on my knees :D

391rippy
06-09-2006, 05:41 PM
i would like to see that also...
no ,i will not get on my knees :D
then no dicana FAQ for you! Go to end of line!

just kidding. Dicana FAQ will come out probably sometime next week.

391rippy
06-09-2006, 05:45 PM
Stizm FAQ

<img src="http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/thermo/stizm.jpg"


What is Stizm?
Stizm is a stimulant/thermogenic/mood enhancer/appetite suppressing supplement. It contains full doses of many potent substances. It is powerful enough to give noticeable effects to those that have an I.V. Of coffee, yet smooth enough to keep you from going insane from stimulation.
What's in it?
Caffeine anhydrous 250mg
Theobromine 200mg
Synephrine HCL 100mg
Octopamine HCL 100mg
Hordenine 100mg
Tyramine HCL 100mg
Phenylethylamine 50mg
What do each of those ingredients do?
Caffeine Anhydrous
Caffeine is a xanthine alkaloid that is a central nervous system stimulant. Caffeine is structurally similar to adenosine, and therefore binds to adenosine receptors in the brain without activating them. The result of this is an increase in epinephrine (Adrenaline) and norepinephrine, which will lead to a stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system which increases blood rate, blood pressure, blood flow to muscle, and also leads to a release of glucose by the liver.
Caffeine is also a competitive inhibitor to cAMP. CAMP is part of the message response to increased epinephrine, so caffeine allows levels of epinephrine to stay elevated longer, which can also intensify and prolong the effects of amphetamines and the like.
Cliff's Notes on Caffeine: Increased thermogenesis, increased energy (adrenaline), and intensification of other epinephrine precursors.
Theobromine
Theobromine is an alkaloid of the methylxanthine family, similar to caffeine. It is the primary xanthine found in chocolate and is one of the reasons for chocolate's ability to improve mood. It is also the reason why chocolate can kill pets since they are not able to metabolize it as well as humans. Even though it is in the same family as caffeine, it's effects are much different. Instead of a short intense rush that can increase anxiety and stress, theobromine is a longer-lasting mood enhancing stimulant.
Synephrine
Synephrine stimulates the beta-3 receptors, which is able to increase the metabolism without increasing heart rate or blood pressure. It is able to increase epinephrine and norepinephrine. It is also an alpha adrenorecptor agonist which increases lipolysis in adipose tissue and decreases appetite.
Octopamine
Octopamine is a trace amine that is derived from tyramine. It stimulates both alpha and beta adrenoreceptors. It is a highly selective beta3 agonist, which means that it should be able to reduce insulin-dependent glucose transport and increase lipolysis. Octopamine is also a selective D1 receptor agonist, meaning that it can increase levels of dopamine. It is also a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, thus increasing dopamine further.
Hordenine
Hordenine plays a big role in stizm. In addition to increasing levels of norepinephrine, it slows digestion and is an MAO inhibitor. By slowing digestion it is able to decrease appetite by keeping you feeling full and satisfied long after a meal. Hordenine's best characteristic is it's ability to inhibit monoamine oxidase enzyme, which is the enzyme that lowers levels of dopamine. Phenylethylamine (a potent mood enhancer that we will discuss shortly) is a dopaminergic supplement, so MAO inhibition is crucial for it to work effectively
Tyramine
Tyramine stimulates norepinephrine and is a reuptake inhibitor or norepinephrine. It also converts to dopamine and decreases it's metabolism by monoamine oxidase aplha.
Phenylethylamine
Phenylethylamine (PEA) is a lot of fun. It is found in chocolate and is the main reason for why chocolate improves your mood. It is commonly referred to as the “love drug” since it is often released when you “fall in love” (whatever that is). PEA works through dopamine and is a potent mood enhancer and anti-depressant. It is quickly broken down by MAO and thus is the need for an MAOI like hordenine.


What effects will you get from Stizm?
Dito put it best when he said that Stizm gives you a stimulating euphoria feeling. With full doses of many potent stimulants (not low doses in hope of synergism) you will be full of energy and ready to go, but with the mood enhancers you should also feel good and avoid the anxiety that many stimulants give. You will also notice a decrease in appetite, which is due to the synephrine and hordenine. Stizm can also aid in weight loss due to it's thermogenic, metabolic rate increasing, and appetite suppressing abilities.
How many caps should I take?
Start off with just one to assess tolerance. Remember, Stizm has a full dose of many potent stimulants, so if you are sensitive to stims or haven't taken any in a while, taking 2 caps on your first dose will be quite an experience.
What's the max dose?
Two caps. From personal experience, three caps is very intense. The euphoria from it is nice, but the stimulation is just too much to be comfortable.
Should I take it on an empty stomach?
Yes.
What happens if I accidentally take too many?
Take some theanine (which can counteract some CNS stimulation) or just buckle down and enjoy the experience.
Some other positive things to note about Stizm

Syneburn from PrimaForce sells for $13.49 on Bodybuilding.com for 180 capsules of 10mg for a total of 1.8 grams of Synephrine HCL per container with no other ingredients.

Now let’s look at Stizm, sold for $29.95 on Bodybuilding.com for 90 capsules of 50mg for a total of 4.5 grams of Synephrine HCL per container PLUS an additional 36 grams of hard to find and expensive ingredients.

One bottle of Stizm has 2.5 times the amount of Synephrine HCL per container as compared to Syneburn from PrimaForce and since Syneburn sells for $13.49 per container and Marc is a good bro, Stizm should cost $33.72 just based on the Synephrine HCL content alone BUT we are greedy, so instead of charging $33.72 for just the Synephrine HCL we added 36 more grams of hard to source and expensive ingredients and it only cost $29.95 here on Bodybuilding.com.
Stizm is a great addition to any cutting diet, because when you are cutting you are low on energy (due to low calories) and are typically grumpy (due to being low on energy) which can lead to having a tough time staying away from the delicious brownies that you wife/girlfriend/main woman cooked. Stizm works to solve all of these while also increasing weight loss.

That's a lot of synephrine....Is that safe?
Yes. ThermoLife would not put that much in there if it were a lawsuit waiting to happen. Most individuals will be able to handle the amount of synephrine (and other stimulants in Stizm) and will enjoy the energy and appetite suppression. However, some individuals are sensitive to synephrine, thus the recommendation to start with one dose.
Will it be okay to take Stizm at night?
Not unless you plan to stay up all night. Caffeine has a half-life of 7 hours, so it would be best to take Stizm no later than 7-9 hours before you plan to go to sleep.

Feedback on Stizm
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=687699
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=702287
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=708700
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=702897
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=702750
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=731239
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=731239
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=678412
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=673403
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=627328

Coulaid
06-09-2006, 05:58 PM
Great job rippy! That quote from Ron is very interesting.

Neck Harness LancerV
06-09-2006, 05:59 PM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=814700

Neck Harness LancerV
06-09-2006, 06:02 PM
I would love to try some Stizm with Dicana, wanna send me some ;)

391rippy
06-09-2006, 07:32 PM
Great job rippy! That quote from Ron is very interesting.
it was in response to someone calling him greedy since they thought stizm was soooooo expensive.

italionstallion
06-09-2006, 07:44 PM
Great job!

391rippy
06-11-2006, 02:26 PM
Zappetite

<img src="http://www.thermolife.com/store/ProdImages/zappetite.gif"



What is Zappetite?
Zappetite is a formula that is designed to aid you in your weight-loss endeavors. Quite often the toughest part of a diet is staying on it. Cravings begin to kick in, the tummy is growling, and you're grumpy from days of being low-carb and you give into temptation by eating an entire pie, 3 dozen cookies, and a small child. Zappetite is designed to curb appetite, control cravings, and give you a feeling of fullness from even the tiniest of meals. In addition to being able to help you maintain willpower, it can also aid in fat-loss. This makes it a great addition to any weight-loss supplement regiment.
What is in Zappetite?
OEA (Oleoylethanolamide)
Hoodia Gordonii (aerial parts) Test positive for P57!
Slimondslim™ (Jojoba seed standardized for 15% Simmondsin)
LotuSlim™ Lotus Leaf extract (Standardized for 20% flavones and alkaloids)
Evodia rutaecarpa (fruit) (Standardized for 20% Evodiamine)
Angelica Dhaurica (root) (Standardized for 5% imperatorin)
Sceletium tortuosum (leaves)

That's a lot of big words....what do all of them mean?

Oleoylethanolamide
Oleyoethanolamide is a naturally occuring amide of oleic acid and ethanolamine,synthesized in the human body primarily by upper part of the small intestine especially when the meal is rich with fats.
http://www.thermolife.com/prod_images/z_1.gif

It belongs in a family of naturally occurring fatty acid ethanolamides(FAEs), present in both animal and plant organisms[1,2]. It received little attention till it was found that a member of the same family, anandamide, served as an endogenous ligand for cannabinoid receptors(3,4) the G-protein-coupled receptors targeted by Ä9-tetrahydrocannabinol in marijuana [5, 6].
http://www.thermolife.com/prod_images/z_2.gif

It was found that in the duodenum and jejunum of rats and mice, OEA levels change in response to nutrient status- they are lower in food-deprived than free-feeding animals, and return to normal values upon refeeding [7]. This changes happen in the upper part of the small intestine-the part most associated with food intake and feeding behaviour[8].OEA levels in the rodent small intestine also display diurnal fluctuations. They are higher during the daytime, when animals are satiated, and lower during the night,when they are awake and actively feeding [9]. These findings led researchers conclude that OEA will affect appetite and feeing behaviour. Indeed, studies in mice have shown OEA to suppress appetite in a time and dosage dependent way[10-13]
http://www.thermolife.com/prod_images/z_3.gif

Apart from it’s appetite suppressing abilities, OEA is also a potent PPAR-á agonist. PPAR-á receptors are a class of nuclear receptors that are also the target for antihyperlipidemic drugs whose stimulation induces increased fatty acid catabolism, lower blood lipid levels and lowered body weight gain[14,15]. In fact, OEA is such a powerful PPAR-á agonist that it’s agonistic action exceeds that of many other PPAR-á agonists[16]. Indeed, apart from it’s antiorexiant actions, OEA has reduced weight when administered chronically to both obese and lean mice.[17] All current data suggests OEA as a very potent compound for the management of appetite and treatment of obesity[16]

Hoodia Gordonii
Hoodia Gordonii is a cactus-like plant from South Africa, from the large Milkweed family. Reports and interviews from South Africa natives suggested that the plant could assuage both the feeling and “pangs” of hunger that occurred during the long treks.[18] Animal studies compromised on extracts from various parts of the plant have shown that Hoodia Gordonii extract can reduce appetite, balance blood sugar levels and promote weight loss, even in overfed animals[19], Animal safety studies have not shown any deleterious side effects independent of the weight loss itself. The putative active component in these sap extracts is a trirhabinoside, known as P57AS3. ZAPPED is currently the only supplement on the market containing Hoodia Gordonii extract that has been tested positive for P57. The mechanism of action of P57 was studied in rats[19]. It was found that P57 increases ATP concentration in the hypothalamus(the part of the brain that among other thing modulates feeding, body temperature, sleep and hormonal release) by 50-150%. It has been found that following long time hypo caloric diets, hypothalamic ATP levels drop by 40-60%, which may very well lead to decreased hormonal production, sleep problems, tiredness e.t.c. Summing up current evidence, apart from the appetite suppression, P57 is very important from combating the side effects following caloric-restricted diets.
click here to see lab results on Thermolife's Hoodia (http://216.119.83.73/prod_images/zappetite_hoodia.pdf)

Slimondslim™
The jojoba plant (Simmondsia chinensis) is a shrub cultivated in arid and semiarid regions for its oil containing nuts. When the leftovers of oil production (jojoba meal) were supplemented to animal food, a profound reduction in food intake was observed. It was demonstrated that simmondsin, a glycoside, was responsible for the appetite-reducing effects of jojoba meal [20]. No major toxic effects have been noted after long-term administration of low doses of simmondsin inducing a sustained food intake and growth reduction in growing rats [21,22]. The food intake-reducing activity seems to be at least in a great part mediated via the vagal nerve since vagotomy significantly reduces the simmondsin-induced food intake inhibition [23]. Further studies on rats have shown the anorectic effects to be dose-dependent, improve with continued simmondsin administration, are greater for overfed rats compared to underfed rats and can also induce taste aversion to craved foods like a saccharin solution[24]. Simmondsin is powerful agent to reduce craving for food.

391rippy
06-11-2006, 02:28 PM
LotuSlim™
The Lotus Leaf (Nelumbo nucifera)is a traditional herb, primarily found in India, used for it’s refrigerant, cardiotonic, astringent and liver protecting actions. Studies have also demonstrated that it possesses potent antioxidant,[25], anti-hyperlipidemic[26] and antiviral[27] actions. A study on rats has demonstrated that Lotus Leaf can lower heightened glucose levels, improve glucose tolerance, potentiate insulin activity (both endogenous and exogenous) and reduce glucose absorption [28].

Evodia rutaecarpa
Evodiamine, isolated from the dry unripened fruit of Evodia rutaecarpa Bentham, is used for it’s analgesic,, antiemetic, astringent, and antihypertensive effects in traditional Chinese Herbalism. [29]. Evodiamine also possesses antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activities[30] as well as antianoxic action on oxygen-deprived brain cells[31].
http://www.thermolife.com/prod_images/z_4.gif

The exact mechanisms of action of Evodiamine are many and still under research. In a study in rats[32], evodiamine demonstrated potent activity as a Cholecystokinine(CCK) agonist. The functions of cholecystokinin (CCK) include stimulation of pancreatic enzyme secretion and inhibition of gastric emptying[33]as well as suppression of food intake [33]. Thus, evodiamine can extend the satiating effect of food by slowing food emptying and reduce overall food intake. Evodiamine also exerts it’s fat loss actions through stimulation of the vallinoid receptors, in the same way as capsaicin.[34] In a study performed on rats , Evodiamine would induce heat loss and heat production at the same time and dissipate food energy, preventing the accumulation of perivisceral fat and the body weight increase.[34]

Angelica Dhaurica
Angelica dahurica Bentham et Hooker (Umbelliferae)is a perennial herb distributed in the whole area of Korea, and its root has been most frequently prescribed as a sedative and an analgesic in Chinese medicine[35]. Angelica species have been traditionally used from the middle ages for various ailments. From various phytochemical studies, it has now been established that the majority of Angelica species contain quite high amounts of biologically active coumarins, predominantly simple- and furano- coumarins like umbelliprenin [36], bergapten, [37] imperatorin [38], isoimperatorin [39], byakangelicin [40], etc., and other active components. Angelica Dhaurica’s furanocumarines imperatorin ,isoimperatorin , and oxypeucedanin are proven to have potent acetylcholynesterase inhibitory activity. Acetylcholynesterase is the enzyme that breaks up the neurotransmitter acetylcholine into acetic acid and choline. Among other things, acetylcholine dilates and relaxes blood vessels, which allows easier removal of fatty acids from adipose cells and also increases c-GMP concentration in fat cells by up to 350% in vitro.[41] Furanocoumarins such as oxypeucedanin hydrate, bergapten, xanthotoxin, imperatorin and phellopterin can also activate adrenalin-induced lipolysis. Imperatorin, oxypeucedanin hydrate and phellopterin also activate ACTH-induced lipolysis. Byakangelicin, neobyakangelicin and isopimpinellin strongly inhibite insulin-stimulated lipogenesis.[42]

Sceletium tortuosum

Sceletium Tortuosum Herba (kougoed) is a traditional herb found mainly in the Western and Eastern Cape provinces, from
Namaqualand to Montagu. Sceletium species have been shown to contain at least 9 indole alkaloids, belonging to one of three structural types. In S. tortuosum (1-1.5% alkaloids) mesembrine appears to be most abundant (0.3% and 0.86% have been reported, respectively, in leaf and stem). Mesembrenone and 4’-O-demethylmesembrenol are also present. Tortuosamine, also isolated from S. tortuosum, represents a second structural type in which the pyrrole ring is opened. Alkaloid levels appear to fluctuate seasonally and may be highest in late spring/early summer; this is the time when plants are traditionally gathered and prepared for use [44]


There are many reports in the literature concerning the activity and use of 'kougoed' by the indigenous peoples.' One of the most reputed “side effects” (considered negative by the indigenous people) was loss of appetite [45]. Other traditional uses include use for relief of stomach and tooth pains, sedative, mood enhancement and thirst/hunger suppression. [46]

Cliff Notes:
Oleoylethanolamide (OEA) – levels of this amine are higher after eating, so raising the level through supplementation makes you brain think that you just ate.
Hoodia Gordonii – has been shown to raise ATP levels in the hypothalamus, which not only fights away hunger, but also fatigue and sleeping problems that are often accompanied by dieting.
Slimondslim – reduces craving for food.
LotuSlim – keeps insulin under control
Evodia rutaecarpa – slows digestion and has thermogenic properties
Angelica Dhaurica – increases lipolysis and decreases lipogenesis.
Sceletium tortuosum – decreases appetite and enhances mood

So what makes Zappetite so special?
Many 'appetite decreasers' only work through one method. Zappetite works in many different ways to keep you on track.

Does this supplement replace will power?
No. But it does help for those who are easily tempted by yummy food. Using Zappetite will help you to keep from having “cheat” meals.
But aren't cheat meals good? Aren't they supposed to increase your metabolism?
Is taking a nap during a marathon good? Cheat meals are only beneficial if it helps to keep you from going crazy from cravings. Zappetite can replace that cheat meal by helping you to stay on track without all of the excess calories. Carb ups can be good for a diet (depending on the diet and the person, of course), but that is completely different than a cheat meal
I have good will power. Will Zappetite help me?
Even for those of us who are able to resist temptation, Zappetite can still be useful but decreasing hunger pains, helping to keep portion sizes under control, and generally make the diet more pleasant. Also, Zappetite can increase fat-loss, which is always helpful
Can Zappetite be added to other fat-loss stacks?
Yes! Zappetite stacks well with almost any fat-loss supplement on the market. A great fat-loss stack with be Zappetite, Dicana, and Stizm. Dicana increases metabolism and is anti-catabolic, while Zappetite and Stizm team up to decrease appetite and improve energy. [/shameless plug]. Zappetite also stacks well with other non-Thermolife supplements.
Should Zappetite be taken with a meal or on an empty stomach?
To get best results, take two caps twice daily in between meals with a glass of water.
Will Zappetite give you digestive problems like some other appetite control supplements?
No. Some other supplements use high amounts of fiber to keep you full, but not Zappetite.

391rippy
06-11-2006, 02:30 PM
References
Kuehl F. A., Jacob T. A., Ganley O. H., Ormond R. E. and Meisinger, M. A. P. (1957) The identification of N-(2-hydroxyethyl)-palmitamide as a naturally occurring anti-inflammatoryagent. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 79: 5577–5578
Bachur N. R., Masek K., Melmon K. L. and Udenfriend S. (1965) Fatty acid amides of ethanolamine in mammalian tissues.J. Biol. Chem. 240: 1019–1024
Devane W. A., Hanus L., Breuer A., Pertwee R. G., Stevenson L A., Griffin G. et al. (1992) Isolation and structure of a brain constituent that binds to the cannabinoid receptor. Science 258:1946–1949
Di Marzo V., Fontana A., Cadas H., Schinelli S., Cimino G., Schwartz J. C. et al. (1994) Formation and inactivation of endogenous cannabinoid anandamide in central neurons. Nature 372: 686–691
Matsuda L. A., Lolait S. J., Brownstein M. J., Young A. C. and Bonner T. I. (1990) Structure of a cannabinoid receptor and functional expression of the cloned cDNA. Nature 346: 561–564
Munro S., Thomas K. L. and Abu-Shaar M. (1993) Molecular characterization of a peripheral receptor for cannabinoids. Nature 365: 61–65
Rodríguez de Fonseca F., Navarro M., Gómez R., Escuredo L., Nava F., Fu J. et al. (2001) An anorexic lipid mediator regulated by feeding. Nature 414: 209–212
Ritter R. C. (2004) Gastrointestinal mechanisms of satiation forfood. Physiol. Behav. 81: 249–273
Fu J., Gaetani S., Oveisi F., Lo Verme J., Serrano A., Rodriguez de Fonseca F. et al. (2003) Oleylethanolamide regulates feeding and body weight through activation of the nuclear receptor PPAR-alpha. Nature 425: 90–93
Fu J., Gaetani S., Oveisi F., Lo Verme J., Serrano A., Rodriguez de Fonseca F. et al. (2003) Oleylethanolamide regulates feeding and body weight through activation of the nuclear receptor PPAR-alpha. Nature 425: 90–93
Oveisi F., Gaetani S., Eng K. T. and Piomelli D. (2004) Oleoylethanolamide inhibits food intake in free-feeding rats after oral administration. Pharmacol. Res. 49: 461–466
Nielsen M. J., Petersen G., Astrup A. and Hansen H. S. (2004) Food intake is inhibited by oral oleoylethanolamide. J. Lipid. Res. 45: 1027–1029
Kay B. M. and Ritter R. C. (2004) Oleoylethanolamide induces rapid reduction of short-term food intake in intact and vagotomized rats. Program No. 427.12, Society for Neuroscience, Washington, DC, online
Berger J. and Moller D. E. (2002) The mechanisms of action of PPARs. Annu. Rev. Med. 53: 409–435
Willson T. M., Brown P. J., Sternbach D. D. and Henke B. R. (2000) The PPARs: from orphan receptors to drug discovery. J.Med. Chem. 43: 527–550
Regulation of food intake by oleoylethanolamide J. LoVermea, S. Gaetania,c, J. Fua, F. Oveisia, K. Burtona and D. Piomellia,b,* a Department of Pharmacology, University of California, Irvine, California 92697-4260 (USA),Fax: +1 949 824 6305
Guzmán M., Lo Verme J., Fu J., Oveisi F., Blazquez C. andPiomelli D. (2004) Oleoylethanolamide stimulates lipolysisby activating the nuclear receptor peroxisome proliferatoractivated receptor alpha (PPAR-alpha). J. Biol. Chem. 279: 27849–27854
P. Bruyns, A revision of hoodia and lavrania (Asclepidaceae-Stapeliaeae Botanische Jahrbucher:fuer), Syst. Pflanzenges. Pflanzengeogr. 115 (1993) 145–270.
Brain Research 1020 (2004) 1 –11 Increased ATP content/production in the hypothalamus may be a signal for energy-sensing of satiety: studies of the anorectic mechanism of a plant steroidal glycoside David B. MacLean*, Lu-Guang Luo
Booth AN, Elliger CA, Wain Jr AC. Isolation of a toxic factor from jojoba meal. Life Sci 1974;15:1115– 20.
Cokelaere M, Cauwelier B, Cokelaere K, Flo G, Houache N, Lievens S, et al. Hematological and pathological effects of 0.25% purified simmondsin in growing rats. Ind Crops Prod 2000;12:165– 71.
Cokelaere M, Daenens P, Decuypere E, Flo G, Ku¨hn E, Van Boven M, et al. Reproductive performance of rats treated with defatted jojoba meal or simmondsin before or during gestation. Food Agric Toxicol 1998;36:13– 9.
Swank M, Sweatt J. Increased histone acetyltransferase and lysine acetyltransferase activity and biphasic activation of the ERK/RSK cascade in insular cortex during novel taste learning. J Neurosci 2001; 21(10):3383– 91.
Simmondsin: effects on meal patterns and choice behavior in rats Sylvia Lievensa, Gerda Floa, Eddy Decuypereb, Maurits Van Bovenc, Marnix Cokelaerea,*
Antioxidant Activity of Methanol Extract of the Lotus Leaf (Nelumbo nucifera Gertn.) Ming-Jiuan Wu, Lisu Wang and Ching-Yi Weng Institute of Biotechnology, Chia-Nan University of Pharmacy and Science
Journal of Ethnopharmacology 46 (1995) 125-129 Short communication Traditional Chinese medicine in treatment of hyperlipidaemia Birgitte la Cour *a, Per MOlgaard a, Zhao Yi baDepartment of Pharmacognosy, 2 Universitetsparken, 2100 Copenhagen, Denmark bGuangxi College of Traditional Chinese Medicine. 21 Ming Xiu Road, Nanning, 530001 Guangxi, P.R China
Anti-HIV benzylisoquinoline alkaloids and flavonoids from the leaves of Nelumbo nucifera, and structure–activity correlations with related alkaloids Yoshiki Kashiwada,a,* Akihiro Aoshima,a Yasumasa Ikeshiro,a Yuh-Pan Chen,b Hiroshi Furukawa,c Masataka Itoigawa,d Toshihiro Fujioka,e Kunihide Mihashi,e L. Mark Cosentino,f Susan L. Morris-Natschkeg and Kuo-Hsiung Leeg,* aFaculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Niigata University of Pharmacy and Applied Life Sciences, Niigata 950-2081, Japan
Journal of Ethnopharmacology 58 (1997) 207 213 Effect of Nelumbo nucifera rhizome extract on blood sugar level in rats Pulok K. Mukherjee, Kakali Saha, M. Pal, B.P. Saha * Department of Pharmaceutical Technology, Faculty of Engineerb~g and Technology, Jadavpur b~iversity, Calcutta 700 032, India
Tang, W., Eisenbrand, G., 1992. Evodia rutaecarpa (Juss.) Benth. In: Tang, W., Eisenbrand, G. (Eds.), Chinese Drugs of Plant Origin. Springer Verlag, New York, pp. 509–514.
Chiou, W.F., Sung, Y.J., Liao, J.F., Shum, A.Y., Chen, C.F., 1997. Inhibitory effect of dehydroevodiamine and evodiamine on nitric oxide production in cultured murine macrophages. J. Nat. Prod. 60, 708– 711.
Journal of Ethnopharmacology, 27 0989) 185- 192 Elsevier Scientific Publishers Ireland Ltd.185 ANTIANOXIC ACTION OF EVODIAMINE, AN ALKALOID IN EVODIA RUTAECARPA FRUIT JOHJI YAMAHARA, TOSHIMASA YAMADA, TETSUYA KITANI, YOSHIKAZU NAITOH and HAJIME FUJIMURA
Effects of evodiamine on gastrointestinal motility in male rats Chiu-Lung Wua, Chen-Road Hungb, Full-Young Changc, Lie-Chwen Lind, K.-Y. Francis Paue, Paulus S. Wanga,*
(Debas et al., 1975; Jin et al., 1994),
Kobayashi Y, Nakano Y, Kizaki M, Hoshikuma K, Yokoo Y, Kamiya T. Capsaicin-like anti-obese activities of evodiamine from fruits of Evodia rutaecarpa, a vanilloid receptor agonist. Planta Med. 2001 Oct;67(7):628-33. PMID: 11582540 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
(Soka, 1985).
Kim, D. K.; Lim, J. P.; Yang, J. H.; Eom, D. O.; Eun, J. S.; Leem, K. H. Archives of Pharmacal Research, 2002, 25, 856.
Kang, S. Y.; Lee, K. Y.; Sung, S. H.; Park, M. J.; Kim, Y. C.Journal of Natural Products, 2001, 64, 683.
Chen, Y. F.; Tsai, H. Y.; Wu, T. S. Planta Medica, 1995, 61, 2.
Inamori, Y.; Baba, K.; Tsujibo, H.; Taniguchi, M.; Nakata, K.;, Kozawa, M. Chemical and Pharmaceutical Bulletin, 1991,39, 1604.
Yan, T. Y.; Hou, A. C.; Sun, B. T. Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi., 1987, 7, 161.
Guanosine 3':5'-Cyclic Monophosphate and the Action of Insulin and Acetylcholine Gennaro Illiano, Guy P. E. Tell, Marvin I. Siegel, and Pedro Cuatrecasas
Effects of various coumarins from roots of Angelica dahuria on actions of adrenaline, ACTH and insulin in fat cells. Kimura Y. et al. Journal of Medicinal Plant Research 45: 183-187, 1982.
Coumarins and antiplatelet aggregation constituents from Formosan Peucidanum japonicum. Chen IS. et al. Phytochemistry 41: 525-530, 1996.
Smith, M.T., Field, C.R., Crouch, N.R. and Hirst, M. (1998). The distribution of mesembrine alkaloids in selected taxa of the Mesembryanthemaceae and their modification in the Sceletium derived “kougoed”. Pharmaceutical Biology 36(3): 173-179 and refs. therein.
(Marloth, 1913)
http://www.plantzafrica.com/medmonographs/scelettort.pdf[/left]
source: www.thermolife.com

391rippy
06-11-2006, 02:37 PM
Feedback on Zappetite
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=686252
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=684325
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=683976
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=702750
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=738388
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=767556

JiveT
06-14-2006, 07:19 PM
Any plans for a G-Tek faq? :D I was just wondering what you guys think of the chewables(taste). I don't mind taking the pills, I just figure it would be nice to switch it up every once in a while.

dito
06-14-2006, 07:31 PM
They taste very good. But too addicting :(

391rippy
06-14-2006, 07:33 PM
Any plans for a G-Tek faq? :D I was just wondering what you guys think of the chewables(taste). I don't mind taking the pills, I just figure it would be nice to switch it up every once in a while.
it'll be up next week. dicana is next :)

feedback on the taste has been good

JiveT
06-14-2006, 07:41 PM
They taste very good. But too addicting :(

That's what I was worried about :D At least it's fructose...I'll just stick to the pills pre and throw in the chewables post workout. G-Tek's the only Thermolife product I currently use but so far I'm very impressed with the faq.

dito
06-14-2006, 07:44 PM
I can't stop eating them :(

beer20
06-14-2006, 07:44 PM
it'll be up next week. dicana is next :)

feedback on the taste has been good
looking forward to the dicana write up...

dito
06-19-2006, 10:58 AM
^^

JiveT
06-19-2006, 11:13 AM
They taste very good. But too addicting :(

I received the G-Tek chewables this afternoon...I'm already almost out :( Thanks a lot dito:( :D

dito
06-19-2006, 11:14 AM
muahaha, any time. I told you they were good. :D

JiveT
06-19-2006, 11:19 AM
muahaha, any time. I told you they were good. :D

My wife says you have to sell bigger tubs of these things...now look what you've done :o

dito
06-19-2006, 11:21 AM
:eek: You aren't supposed to let the SO get into your stash haha!

JiveT
06-19-2006, 11:32 AM
:eek: You aren't supposed to let the SO get into your stash haha!

I told her that they tasted HORRIBLE but she wasn't buying it :( Oh well, you did warn me so I can't really blame you. Any plans for assorted flavors? And if you get the chance, nudge 391rippy and tell him to hurry the hell up with the Dicana faq! :D

391rippy
06-19-2006, 11:33 AM
And if you get the chance, nudge 391rippy and tell him to hurry the hell up with the Dicana faq! :D
it's almost finished. Ron is making some final changes to it (cause he knows a lot more than i do) so it will be up soon.

clock
06-20-2006, 05:58 AM
Any chance that you guys will put up an E-bol FAQ before it comes out?

dito
06-20-2006, 10:11 AM
I think we could post something up a few days before it hits stores.

hotasice2003
06-20-2006, 05:51 PM
I love the ingredient profile and Stizm, and was wondering if Yohimbine could be added?

391rippy
06-21-2006, 07:41 AM
I love the ingredient profile and Stizm, and was wondering if Yohimbine could be added?
hmmm...i'm sure you could add it, but i think that there are enough stimulants in stizm.

hotasice2003
06-21-2006, 10:39 AM
hmmm...i'm sure you could add it, but i think that there are enough stimulants in stizm.


Well, I just wanted to add it for it Alpha antagonist properties..... :)

391rippy
06-21-2006, 11:48 AM
Well, I just wanted to add it for it Alpha antagonist properties..... :)
i'm sure you could handle. most people don't get too much stimulation out of it. give it a shot with a low dose and if you can handle it bump it up

beer20
06-22-2006, 05:52 PM
bump for the dicana FAQ :)

391rippy
06-23-2006, 07:05 AM
bump for the dicana FAQ :)
it'll probably be a few more months.....Ron had a sentence that he wanted to change.

G-tek FAQ will be up soon

391rippy
06-23-2006, 09:37 PM
Dicana FAQ
http://www.thermolife.com/store/ProdImages/dicana.gif


What is Dicana?
Dicana is a proprietary combination of patent pending Diiodothyroacetic acid isomers. Dicana works by increasing protein synthesis through calorie repartitioning while simultaneously causing an increase in body temperature and oxygen consumption for extreme fat loss without muscle catabolism. Dicana has direct reversible pathways to T3, Triacana (tiratricol) and T2 and therefore acts as a precursor to these powerful fat shredding compounds.

What are T3, Triacana, and T2?
T3 and T2 are thyroid hormones, and Triacana is a metabolite on T3. The thyroid is basically the key metabolic regulator in your body. Thyroid hormones are capable of the following:
- Increased oxygen consumption (metabolic rate)
- Increased thermogenesis (heat production)
- Increased number of beta adrenergic receptors in the heart, skeletal muscle, adipose tissues, and lymphocytes (these receptors bind fat mobilizing hormones)
- Increased sensitivity to catecholamines (fat mobilizing, fight or flight hormones)
- Increased number of red blood cells and increased oxygen delivery
- Increased lypolysis
- Increased liver glycogen breakdown
- Increased liver glucose production
- Increased intestinal glucose absorption
- Increased protein turnover
- Decreased cholesterol levels
(http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/supplementation/t2.htm)
The most important of these effects for bodybuilders are increased metabolic rate, increased thermogenesis, increased number of beta adrenergic receptors, and increase protein turnover.
By supplementing with thyroid hormones you are able to rapidly increase your metabolic rate and burn fat at a much higher weight without having to go on a low-calorie diet and risk losing large amounts of muscle. You can eat at a maintenance level or slightly lower and lose fat effectively.
That sounds great! So why aren't thyroid hormones more commonly used?
Supplementing with thyroid hormones, especially T3 and Triacana, requires very careful dosing or serious side effects may occur, including thyroid shutdown. Since we commonly have the attitude that more is better, there would be a pandemic of Americans abusing thyroid hormones.
So you're saying Dicana is dangerous?
No, and that's the beauty of Dicana. T2, T3 and tiratrricol in high doses or long durations may be very effective at weight loss, but can lead to thyroid shutdown and muscle loss. T2, T3 and tiratricol can stimulate protein synthesis (good) at low amounts, but at higher amounts they can cause protein degredation also known as muscle catabolism (bad).
http://www.auburn.edu/~shanncb/thyroid.jpg
So the key to using thyroid hormones safely is to use smaller amounts so that your metabolic rate is increased and protein synthesis is increased, but your thyroid isn't highly suppressed and protein degredation (muscle wasting) isn't a problem.
T2 is another thyroid hormone that was previously thought to be inactive, but some recent studies showed that it can be very effective. T2 is a weaker hormone than T3, but is not nearly as suppressive. At the proper dose you can get some great fat burning with only minimal thyroid suppression. Triacana (tiratricol) is very effective for fat loss but can cause considerable muscle loss as well unless you are using anabolic steroids simultaneously, Triacana use will cause temporary thyroid shutdown during use but the vast majority of users will return to normal thyroid function within 3-4 weeks of discontinuing use.
So Dicana is safe, but is it effective?
Yes! The beauty of Dicana is that it is able to give you the right amount of each thyroid hormone to give you noticeable fat burning results, but thyroid suppression will be minimal, and the thyroid is able to rebound quickly to mild suppression, so quickly that you will not notice any effects of suppression.
I'm having trouble deciding between Cytomal, Triacana (Trimax) and Dicana....Which is best?
Cytomal (T3) and Triacana (Trimax) are definitely more effective at burning fat (assuming you're using full doses). However, anyone who has used Cytomal or Triacana will tell you that you will lose considerable amounts of muscle as well (refer to the picture above). This is why smart Cytomal or Triacana users will only use it while using AAS. Also, with Cytomal you can experience serious thyroid shutdown and will need to use some sort of thyroid PCT.
So it really all comes down to what you want. If you want to lose body fat at the expense of muscle and thyroid shutdown, Cytomal or Triacana is the clear winner. But if you want to lose body fat while preserving muscle and keeping your thyroid levels safe, chose Dicana. Also, if you're a fan of being legal, then Dicana is your only choice.
I've heard that Dicana is anti-catabolic and anabolic. Is this true?
Yes; by stimulation protein synthesis, it can decrease the amount of muscle that is lost while dieting; also, since you will not have to go with such an extreme calorie deficit, you should be able to retain more muscle than if you weren't using Dicana. Dicana, along with other thyroid supplements, can be anabolic while bulking or on cycle due to its ability to increase protein synthesis.
How quickly will the thyroid recover?
From mild suppression it will recover quickly. Judging from the feedback on Dicana, no one has experienced any hypothyroid problems, so obviously there is not an issue. From extreme shutdown like you would see with Cytomal or possibly Triacana or even T2, it can be 5-9 weeks (Vagenakis, et al. 1975). But I will stress once again, you will not experience thyroid shutdown from proper Dicana use.
What is the recommended dosage?
No matter what your size, it is recommended to start with 3 caps a day in divided doses. If you are a larger person or are looking for more dramatic results, you may increase dosage up to 6 caps a day, but it is not recommended to go past this amount since there is always a risk of more suppression and/or muscle loss at these dosages and results likely will not improve. One user has used 9 caps a day with no signs of muscle loss or thyroid shutdown
How long should I use Dicana?
Four to six weeks will be effective, and you may use up to 12 weeks, but it is strongly recommended not to go further than that. Take a break of ½ cycle length before using Dicana again.
What would stack well with Dicana?
Dicana would stack well with an EC stack or Clenbuterol, since Dicana is able to increase beta receptors. Since ephedrine and especially Clen can down-regulate these receptors, it would be a great idea to use either of them in-between cycles of Dicana. If you are looking for a stimulant, Stizm was formulated especially to be used in conjunction with Dicana and the two will work synergistically together for increased fat loss (remember Dicana is not a stimulant). SAN Blaze or DS Lean Extreme could also be used when cycling off of Dicana since they are both excellent thyroid boosters, but this is not necessary.
If you are looking for non-stimulating products to stack, Dicana would stack well with non-stimulating supplements such as Sesathin and cAMPHIBOLIC.
Do I need to taper off of Dicana?
Nope.
*portions of this were written by Ron Kramer

Coulaid
06-23-2006, 09:51 PM
Whooo hooo! Great FAQ!

bodybuilder45
06-24-2006, 10:31 AM
great work on the dicana writeup. 1 more question: is it better to take with food or on an empty stomach?

dito
06-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Doesn't matter.

Zachattack43
06-24-2006, 12:32 PM
Doesn't matter.
why is that I recall reading something on T3 to wait 30minutes before eating to allow for full absorption, so wouldnt that apply to dicana?

CanadaBBOY
06-26-2006, 03:27 PM
Great looking FAQ's guys!

TheManofSteel
06-27-2006, 08:27 PM
BUMP

I'd like some more info also on timing of Dosage

391rippy
06-27-2006, 08:46 PM
BUMP

I'd like some more info also on timing of Dosage
ecdysten: with meals. spaced out evenly on off days and for training days increase dosage around your workouts (preferably before)
zappetite: empty stomach
dicana: with meals or empty stomach
stizm: empty stomach, and dependin

Neck Harness LancerV
07-01-2006, 10:21 PM
I was wondering if you could take Dicana with AMP also?

Bloute
07-02-2006, 07:09 AM
I was wondering if you could take Dicana with AMP also?

Yes, you can.

Neck Harness LancerV
07-02-2006, 12:53 PM
Yes, you can.
Thanks going to start Mon will do a log also

391rippy
07-02-2006, 01:33 PM
G-TEK FAQ

http://www.thermolife.com/store/ProdImages/gtek.gif
and

Chewable G-TEK FAQ

http://www.thermolife.com/store/ProdImages/c_gtek.gif

Buy G-TEK in the bodybuilding.com store (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/thermo/gtek.html)
Buy chewable G-TEK in the bodybuilding.com store (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/thermo/chew.html)


What is Glutamine?
Glutamine is one of the 20 amino acids. It is one of the few bodybuilding supplements that has stood the test of time and has plenty of uses for both bodybuilders and for common individuals who are on a diet or a weight-loss regiment. Glutamine also has uses for gastrointestinal health and the immune system.

What does Glutamine do?
Glutamine has a number of uses. First is boring stuff like the intestinal and immune system. It plays a role as a precursor of many compounds such as glucose, urinary ammonia, nucleic acids, and intracellular glutathione and acts as an energy source for rapidly growing cells such as those found in the intestinal and immune systems. (Newsholme P, Procopio J, Lima MM, Pithon-Curi TC, Curi R. Glutamine and glutamate: their central role in cell metabolism and function. Cell Biochem Funct. 2003;21:1–9.). But the more exiting stuff is Glutamine's effects on protein synthesis, fatty acid oxidation, insulin, and glycogen. Though glutamine does not directly impact protein synthesis, research shows that glutamine levels strongly correlate with protein synthesis.(Jepson MM, Bates PC, Broadbent P, Pell JM, Millward DJ.
Relationship between glutamine concentration and protein synthesis in rat skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1988;255:E166– E172.)
http://www.auburn.edu/~shanncb/glutamine.jpg
Glutamine can increase fatty acid oxidation when taken with a meal (Iwa****a S, Mikus C, Baier S, Flakoll PJ. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 2006 Mar-Apr;30(2):76-80.). Glutamine was shown to decrease weight gain from a high fat diet due to it's ability to attenuate hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia (Ballard TC, Farag A, Branum GD, Akwari OE, Opara EC. Effect
of L-glutamine supplementation on impaired glucose regulation during intravenous lipid administration. Nutrition. 1996;12:349–354.)

The most exciting effect of Glutamine and it's best use is for glycogen replenishment. A number of studies have shown that Glutamine is effect at restoring glycogen levels post-workout and post-exercise as effective as glucose polymers (Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, Patel A, Simeoni M, Rennie MJ.). Though you could easily just use carbohydrates for post-workout glycogen replinishment, glutamine is able to do so without elevating insulin (Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, Patel A, Simeoni M, Rennie MJ. Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. J Appl Physiol. 1999;86:1770–1777.). When glutamine is combined with glucose it is able to replenish liver glycogen (Interaction between glutamine availability and metabolism of glycogen, tricarboxylic acid cycle intermediates and glutathione. Rennie MJ et al.).
Is Glutamine useful while bulking?
There is a heated debate on whether or not glutamine is useful while hypercaloric. This FAQ is not going to be a place for another debate, but there are some positive benefits of Glutamine while bulking. It can be effective at promoting lean gains and preventing fat gain due to it's ability to increase fatty acid oxidation and prevent hyperinsulinemia. Many people who say that Glutamine is useless while bulking say so because they did not have any noticeable increase in muscle building. This is because Glutamine does not directly impact protein synthesis (especially not while hypercaloric), so expecting glutamine to build muscle is like expecting whey protein to be a stimulant; there's no science to prove it, so why expect it? However, science does show support that glutamine could be used on a lean bulk to prevent excess fat gain (from it's fatty acid oxidative and insulin control properties) and it can be used postworkout instead of carbohydrates if you are on a diet that stresses low insulin levels.
Is Glutamine useful while cutting?
YES! It is also much more cost-effective to use while cutting because it's effects will be more apparent. The main use for Glutamine while cutting is as a carbohydrate replacement, especially post-workout. Since glutamine has been shown to increase muscle glycogen effectively without increasing insulin, you could replace your usual postworkout carbs with glutamine and get glycogen's muscle sparing effects without the fat-promoting effects of insulin. Glutamine can also be used with your other meals, both to enhance fatty-acid oxidation but also to improve glycogen stores since your meals will likely be low in carbs. Another very useful effect is immune system improvement. You are more likely to get sick while on a calorie- deficit, and even something as simple as a cold can hinder your dieting results, and if you're dieting for a competition it could definitely throw off your pre-contest prep, which you don't want to happen when you're wearing a banana hammock in front of a large crowd.
Since
[b]What's the difference between L-Glutamine and the Glutamine Peptides in G-tek?
Peptide form is absorbed better due to peptide transport systems in the digestive tract. Glutamine Peptides are recognized to be the most bioavailable form of Glutamine available and are estimated to be absorbed at a rate that is approximately double that of equivalent amounts of free form L-Glutamine. (Jeff Behar http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/protein5.htm) So basically you're getting twice the glutamine, but glutamine peptides don't cost much more that l-glutamine, so you're getting a much better deal.
How much should i take?
Follow directions on the back of the bottle. Some people like to use 15 grams postworkout and 5-15 grams before bed.


G-Tek Chewables

How's the taste?
Feedback on the taste has been very good.
OMG! It's got fructose in it! Fructose is sugar! It's gawna make me faaaaat!
First of all, that's not a question. Secondly, fructose is much different than sucrose, dextrose, malto, etc. The first difference is that fructose has a very low GI (much lower than oats), so insulin mediated fat gain is not an issue. Also, fructose is used primarily for restoring liver glycogen, which can increase leptin, which can improve muscle retention while cutting (there are some great articles in Mind and Muscle magazine on leptin; read them). So instead of fructose being a bad thing, it is a great addition to glutamine because together they can restore both muscle glycogen and liver glycogen with very little impact on insulin.

vaughny
07-10-2006, 11:52 AM
Stizm FAQ

<img src="http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/thermo/stizm.jpg"
[left]
Caffeine anhydrous 250mg
Theobromine 200mg
Synephrine HCL 100mg
Octopamine HCL 100mg
Hordenine 100mg
Tyramine HCL 100mg
Phenylethylamine 50mg
What do each of those ingredients do?

Hordenine
Hordenine plays a big role in stizm. In addition to increasing levels of norepinephrine, it slows digestion and is an MAO inhibitor. By slowing digestion it is able to decrease appetite by keeping you feeling full and satisfied long after a meal. Hordenine's best characteristic is it's ability to inhibit monoamine oxidase enzyme, which is the enzyme that lowers levels of dopamine. Phenylethylamine (a potent mood enhancer that we will discuss shortly) is a dopaminergic supplement, so MAO inhibition is crucial for it to work effectively
Tyramine
Tyramine stimulates norepinephrine and is a reuptake inhibitor or norepinephrine. It also converts to dopamine and decreases it's metabolism by monoamine oxidase aplha.


Good write-up. What makes it OK to run a MAOI (Hordenine) with Tyramine? I'm sure it is OK or you wouldn't have done it, but t's not clear to me how this works.

Thanks

391rippy
07-10-2006, 01:29 PM
Good write-up. What makes it OK to run a MAOI (Hordenine) with Tyramine? I'm sure it is OK or you wouldn't have done it, but t's not clear to me how this works.

Thanks
"scientific evidence does not presently support a link between dietary tyramine and adverse reactions in those who are not taking an MAOI"
there are a bunch of warnings about tyramine and MAOIs, but 1)hordenine is a very weak MAOI and 2)i've used deprenyl and stizm together and did not notice any adverse reactions.

if you are using MAOIs it would be a good idea to start with just one cap to assess tolerance, but with stizm it's a good idea to start with just one cap anyways due to it's hefty dosing.

vaughny
07-10-2006, 06:23 PM
"scientific evidence does not presently support a link between dietary tyramine and adverse reactions in those who are not taking an MAOI"
there are a bunch of warnings about tyramine and MAOIs, but 1)hordenine is a very weak MAOI and 2)i've used deprenyl and stizm together and did not notice any adverse reactions.

if you are using MAOIs it would be a good idea to start with just one cap to assess tolerance, but with stizm it's a good idea to start with just one cap anyways due to it's hefty dosing.

Thanks. I'm not on an MAOI medication just saw that Hordenine was one so I got curious. Looks good. Thanks

at27
07-20-2006, 12:56 AM
Can I use Zappetite along with Dicana?

391rippy
07-20-2006, 05:19 AM
Can I use Zappetite along with Dicana?
Yes. They will work well together.

Neck Harness LancerV
07-20-2006, 02:24 PM
Would dicana cause a low TSH?

391rippy
07-20-2006, 02:34 PM
Would dicana cause a low TSH?
dicana will not suppress your thyroid output.

Neck Harness LancerV
07-20-2006, 02:38 PM
dicana will not suppress your thyroid output.
Weird, heres my log and got my blood work back and my TSH was way low...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=10794192&postcount=15

Not sure what would be causing it than but every other thyroid was pretty high

391rippy
07-20-2006, 02:47 PM
Weird, heres my log and got my blood work back and my TSH was way low...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=10794192&postcount=15

Not sure what would be causing it than but every other thyroid was pretty high
you got bloodwork while still using dicana? if so, then it's because dicana can lead to slight suppression WHILE ON, but it will rebound immediately after you stop using it. also, how do you know that your TSH wasn't low to begin with? best thing to do would be to have your bloodwork done again a few weeks after finishing dicana

MuZI
07-20-2006, 03:00 PM
you got bloodwork while still using dicana? if so, then it's because dicana can lead to slight suppression WHILE ON, but it will rebound immediately after you stop using it. also, how do you know that your TSH wasn't low to begin with? best thing to do would be to have your bloodwork done again a few weeks after finishing dicana

Makes sense, that pretty much answers the question.

I wonder if his T3 levels were higher than before :D

Neck Harness LancerV
07-20-2006, 04:25 PM
you got bloodwork while still using dicana? if so, then it's because dicana can lead to slight suppression WHILE ON, but it will rebound immediately after you stop using it. also, how do you know that your TSH wasn't low to begin with? best thing to do would be to have your bloodwork done again a few weeks after finishing dicana
I get blood work 3x a year, last time I got my blood tested my TSH was around 4.3

391rippy
07-20-2006, 05:02 PM
I get blood work 3x a year, last time I got my blood tested my TSH was around 4.3
well it's possible that dicana is suppressing TSH slightly (makes sense, since it is in a way introducing thyroid hormones) but your TSH levels should rebound immediately. no one has ever reported rebound fat gain (that would be caused by thyroid output not rebounded) so i doubt you should have an problems.

MuZI
07-20-2006, 05:05 PM
I get blood work 3x a year, last time I got my blood tested my TSH was around 4.3


Tyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)-0.6 µIU/mL

Are we talking in the same units?

(btw, your name looks familiar..... offtopic??)

Neck Harness LancerV
07-20-2006, 05:14 PM
Are we talking in the same units?

(btw, your name looks familiar..... offtopic??)
Yea same, whats your name on OT? And yea its the same units

Truth Speaker
12-03-2009, 01:48 PM
Lol


Just curious...

Where's ron's dicana coa? Where's gasparis 3,3 coa?


There are more reasons than what meets the eye to
not play ron's game here.

Are you kidding me DUDE?

You boasted about 9 lab tests that failed and swore you had one that shows you have legitimate 3,3' T2 but you have done everything but post one of the lab tests you claim to have.

Your wannabe Macrobolic was able to post a bunch of funny boy pictures but you, nor anyone from your company can post a lab report or back up one thing you said.

Now you are challenging me? I live for clowns like you to challenge me on testing.

That is the difference between ThermoLife and the rest of the companies out there, especially yours.

I probably have more tests on the last batch of Dicana than iForce has on every product it has ever released combined.

I am sure this is way too technical for you but here it is none the less. The smarter people on this board will know who is for real, and who just talks BS.



Graphs 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are HPLC graphs of 3,3'- Diac (Dicana) Lot Nr. 1307PD9. These are repeat HPLC runs on the same lot. They are used together with the HPLC runs of the standard, Graphs pages 7,8, and 9 and the loss on drying to calculate the assay on dry basis by HPLC.

All HPLC graphs the quantity of 3,3'-Diac are already on dry basis.

Loss on drying (2 hours, 105 ?C) = 0.34 % Assay (HPLC) = 98.7 % on dry basis

Graph 6: HPLC graph of a concentrated solution of 3,3'-Diac Lot 1307PD9 used in the calculation of HPLC purity. Result as informed in our Certificate of analysis: 98.5 % (see attachment)

Graphs 7, 8, and 9: HPLC graphs of the 3,3'-Diac standard, repeated three times. They are used to calculate the Assay by HPLC together with the HPLC graphs of the sample in pages 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Graph 10: Titration graph of 3,3'-Diac used to calculate together with the loss on drying the assay on dry basis by acidimetry. (See calculation below.)

Result as informed in our Certificate of analysis 103% on dry basis


Graph 1:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page1.jpg
Graph 2:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page2.jpg
Graph 3:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page3.jpg
Graph 4:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page4.jpg
Graph 5:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page5.jpg
Graph 6:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page6.jpg
Graph 7:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page7.jpg
Graph 8:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page8.jpg


PRODUCT: [4-(4-hydroxy-3-iodophenoxy)-3-iodophenyl] acetic acid
BATCH: 1307PD9
CALCULATION OF THE ASSAY BY HPLC

Area's average of product: 4388.47 (see graphs 01-02-03-04-05)

Area's average of standard: 4813.97 (see graphs 07-08-09)

Concentration of product (mg/50 ml): 22.73

Concentration of standard (mg/50 ml): 24.6

Assay (%) = 4388.47 x 24.6 x 100 = 98.66% on dry basis
4813.97 x 22.73


You have just been schooled.

So are you going to post your lab results NOW?

Truth Speaker
12-03-2009, 01:49 PM
Here are the other 2:

Graph 9:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page9.jpg
Graph 10:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/ThermoThug/page10.jpg