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Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 02:52 PM
Hello All,

I've been monitoring the feedback and comments about Vyotech products on this site for quite some time now and would like to open up the discussion a little more.

I'm here to answer any and all questions about the products and the direction of the company as a whole.

Contrary to some of the comments on this forum, this is absolutely; positively the first time any representative from Vyotech has done this.

I look forward to fielding your questions.

All the Best


Michael Phillip
Vice President of Sales
Vyotech Nutritionals

Danes
04-17-2006, 02:59 PM
Hello All,

I've been monitoring the feedback and comments about Vyotech products on this site for quite some time now and would like to open up the discussion a little more.

I'm here to answer any and all questions about the products and the direction of the company as a whole.

Contrary to some of the comments on this forum, this is absolutely; positively the first time any representative from Vyotech has done this.

I look forward to fielding your questions.

All the Best

Hello and welcome.

First of all, I love Viraloid and Seriously I LOVE IT!
I tried 17-hd with good results, but I had some side effects. everytime I took it, after 1-2 hours I got upset stomach.It last 5-6 hours and then disapear. Why is that? I see , it is not just me. OTher people have reported same thing. Upset stomach, difficult to sleep..


Michael Phillip
Vice President of Sales
Vyotech Nutritionals


Hello and welcome.

First of all, I love Viraloid and Seriously I LOVE IT!
I tried 17-hd with good results, but I had some side effects. everytime I took it, after 1-2 hours I got upset stomach.It last 5-6 hours and then disapear. Why is that? I see , it is not just me. OTher people have reported same thing. Upset stomach, difficult to sleep..

Kledz
04-17-2006, 03:05 PM
Welcome to the board, I believe you'll find we are a tough crowd of consumers to please so as long as you're honest... or give out free product(joking) you should be alright here. Long story short, if you try to bull**** us, we're gonna know and it will backfire brutally. Its tough love here, just a warning.

Welcome though, I'm looking forward to your contributions here. ;)

You may want to start off addressing this thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=764626

Regular_Ryan
04-17-2006, 03:07 PM
Unit Quantity:
60 caps

Ingredients:
Serving Size: 1 CapsuleServings Per Container: 60
Viraloid 200mg

Suggestions:
Take 1 capsule twice daily with meals.

Cautions:
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. Consult a physician prior to use if you have any medical problems. Do not exceed recommended dose.

What is Viraloid. Not the marketing answer -

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/vyo/viral.html

- But what is really in it.



Originally Posted by
Well, the FDA regulations state that an ingredient must be approved 90 days before coming to market.

What's unfortunate is when companies choose to use proprietary blends to hide the ingredients of their products. Proprietary blends MUST (by law) list the actual ingredients of proprietary blends, although not in the specific amounts. So, you can't just call someone Blend XYZ 100mg and not say what Blend XYZ is.

However, I do have a problem with guessing what the ingredients are in a product. The only product that I see a concern with is the product called "xxxxxxx" which ingredients seem to have made up names and leaves consumers with no idea what it is.

Danes
04-17-2006, 03:10 PM
What is Viraloid. Not the marketing answer -

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/vyo/viral.html

- But what is really in it.

Wild yam (some molecule from it)

and some stuf which is from tribulus family. And they have removed sugars.

I think it is that stuf, or is it wrong?

Blap Blaow
04-17-2006, 03:10 PM
Welcome to bb.com!! :)

do you have a Viotech email address or any evidence as to your association with them?

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 03:12 PM
Thanks so much for choosing Vyotech.

To answer your questions. Because 17 HD has strong thermogenic effects depending on what time of day you take it (Earlier the better), it will interfere with sleep.

As far as the upset stomach is concerned, Your body could be reacting to one or more of the components that make up 17 HD. You could also be having a slight allergic reaction to it.

Try taking it with food or and RTD MRP. If the problem persists stop taking it all together.


Thanks again for the support!

Kledz
04-17-2006, 03:15 PM
Is there any legitimate reason your company still produces a liquid creatine product?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/vyo/creatine.html

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the welcome guys. I will always answer your question honestly. I love constructive criticism as harsh as it may be. That is what will make our company better in the long run.

Please feel free to throw ideas questions and comment about anything pertaining to Vyotech and the industry as a whole.

Start throwing daggers. I've got a thick skin.


For the question of validity that I am who I say I am.

You reach me anytime at michael@vyotech.com

Danes
04-17-2006, 03:20 PM
Thanks so much for choosing Vyotech.

To answer your questions. Because 17 HD has strong thermogenic effects depending on what time of day you take it (Earlier the better), it will interfere with sleep.

As far as the upset stomach is concerned, Your body could be reacting to one or more of the components that make up 17 HD. You could also be having a slight allergic reaction to it.

Try taking it with food or and RTD MRP. If the problem persists stop taking it all together.


Thanks again for the support!

That is good to hear.

I found out that 17-hd have REALY good energy-effect.
I tried to fool my friend "giving him 17-hd pill" and said to him that "this pill gona make you more relaxed and your lifts gonna be better"
He said "relaxed? I dont wanna be relaxed, but what the hell, I will try it"

Believe me, after 40 minutes, he said to me "WTF, I feel so much energy... Are U SURE this stuf makes you relaxed? " I said yes..
After finishing trainingday, he said "this is the best energy-boost I have ever had" He found out that I was talking ****. So , my point is, it was NOT placebo effect. 17-hd GIVES you a good energy-kick, but not everyone will feel that. If you use a lot of ephedrine, I dont think you will feel the same way.

If I take 17-hd with food, how will uptake be? also, food will not affect uptake?

honestly, what is better for mass, Viraloid or 17-hd?

I got 10 lbs with viraloid after just couple of weeks, without changing the calorie uptake or proteinintake. Agression, acne was some "side effects" but that was not bothering me.

Kledz
04-17-2006, 03:21 PM
Thanks for the welcome guys. I will always answer your question honestly. I love constructive criticism as harsh as it may be. That is what will make our company better in the long run.

Please feel free to throw ideas questions and comment about anything pertaining to Vyotech and the industry as a whole.

Start throwing daggers. I've got a thick skin.


For the question of validity that I am who I say I am.

You reach me anytime at michael@vyotech.com

I was not trying to "throw daggers" per se, its just that its well known around here liquid creatine products are useless. If you could explain why you produce such a product that would be great.

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 03:23 PM
We have since discontinued the LIQUID CREATINE line Because of the advent of the Nitrobolic Extreme. (NO Creatine, Arginine product)

There may be some product still lingering around but we no longer make it.

Regular_Ryan
04-17-2006, 03:24 PM
Wild yam (some molecule from it)

and some stuf which is from tribulus family. And they have removed sugars.

I think it is that stuf, or is it wrong?
Exactly, why is that no on the label and what is it? No one knows.

Kledz
04-17-2006, 03:26 PM
We have since discontinued the LIQUID CREATINE line Because of the advent of the Nitrobolic Extreme. (NO Creatine, Arginine product)

There may be some product still lingering around but we no longer make it.

Thats good to hear, I was actually just looking at Nitrobolic Extreme and like the ingredient profile very much. The only thing that gets me is the price. 1$ a serving doesnt do me well, hopefully the price is healthy because its dosed well.

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 03:45 PM
Viraloid is a proprietary herbal compound that is derived from the puncture vine and wild yam.

It's functionality is to stimulate luetinizing hormone which inturn signals the testes to produce more natural free testosterone. Thats the goal right?

The potency and functionality of our compounds are based upon the extraction processes. Which for the most part are either patented or patent pending.

The products are created by doctors and chemists. It is very hard to fully educate people on our products because to be honest with sometimes even I don't get it. You have to be a science guy to understand it. I have a bussiness and marketing background.

When ever we liscense new compounds the chemist or doctor comes to the office and gives us a run down on what the product does and how it works. Then they give us a 1500 page substantiation to support the claims... It's hard to cram all of that info into a brochure or sale sheet. We do our best.

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 03:49 PM
NO stands for Nitric Oxcide. It is a vaso dilator. It help to push more oxyginated blood through the body.

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 04:03 PM
Now that I think about it a little more in regards to the 17 HD and food. I would prefer that you use a liquid MRP as opposed to solid food. Solid food could interfere a little bit with the uptake. Definitely want you to get all of the benefits of 17 HD.

Greek God
04-17-2006, 04:06 PM
Hey, my friend took 17-hd, with small results in mass, but he increased his strength exponentially. I have a strong feeling he was too young to take this product, can you explain why that might have happened.

joboxer
04-17-2006, 04:12 PM
I am the joe henriod.

I sent you the complaint on your website. I don't think people have a problem with your product so much, just the way that it was advertised.

You really need to hire people with better experience to do your advertising. Its just bad. You can't say 90% of women think this.... like its a fact. Everything is stated in your ad like scientific evidence but there are no links to studies or anything like that.

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 04:15 PM
A nitrogen molecule is attached to the compund as well the Beta Edysterone. These two ingredients together will cause a surge in power and help motor you through your workouts. The more energy the better your workouts will be.

This is the reason for strength increases.

Greek God
04-17-2006, 04:17 PM
WHy didn't he gain mass?

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 04:19 PM
Hey Joe,


Thanks for the feedback.

Actually, the person who was writing our advertisments before is no longer with the company. I think you will see a significant change in the way we market our products and the direction our company is going.

We have an entirely new site launching shortly. Stay tuned.

bigjosh230
04-17-2006, 04:22 PM
I love viraloid other than its price at gnc if I paid what it cost at gnc I would spend $160 a month on it but my question is how long do you think it will take to lower its price even just a little because its not open to the general public at 79.99 for a 15 day supply.

Danes
04-17-2006, 04:23 PM
My friend would like to buy a supplement from Vyo-tech, but he dont know, what would give him more musclemass, 17-hd OR Viraloid? I think viraloid gonna help him more with musclemass. What do you think??

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 04:24 PM
Two questions! How old is your friend? How long was he on the product for?

No supplement on earth works 100% of the time. He could be the minority.

doogieh
04-17-2006, 04:25 PM
A nitrogen molecule is attached to the compund as well the Beta Edysterone. These two ingredients together will cause a surge in power and help motor you through your workouts. The more energy the better your workouts will be.

This is the reason for strength increases.

Is the Beta Ecdy extracted from Rhaponticum?

Greek God
04-17-2006, 04:26 PM
He was 19, took it for a month and gained a lot in strength, I mean a lot, and he'd been lifting a while, but noty much mass, maybe 3 pounds.

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 04:27 PM
Hey Big Josh,

I would suggest that you hunt on the internet for some deals. You can get it at great prices all over the place on the web. I've seen it as low as $35.00.

Go to google and type in Viraloid!

Thanks for the support!

Vyotech Rep
04-17-2006, 04:31 PM
Young guy, High metablosim. Was he eating enough calories? Is he working out 6 days a week? If he is trying to gain mass do not train more than 3 to 4 days max focusing on core lifts, bench press, squat and deadlifts.

Bottom line increase calorie intake and decrease traing volume. You gotta rest to grow.

bigjosh230
04-17-2006, 09:41 PM
Thank You vyotech rep I have searched around the internet for viraloid and that is where I bought it at but I know it is the best product I've ever used. I started with on January 23 of this year at 240 pounds with 14" arms and 23 1/2" thighs (mostly fat in my abdominal area) I purchased 3 bottles and used them all up and by the 1st of march I had gone down to 230 while my arms went to 15 5/8" and my legs went to 25" those are appreciable gains by any standard I can say viraloid is the best product because I have stagnated at where I am now since I ran out of viraloid.

Coulaid
04-17-2006, 09:48 PM
No supplement on earth works 100% of the time.

^^^^^^This statement is nice to see. :eek: x10000000

Welcome to the board. You seem like you will fit in quite nicely here.

dangetinthere
04-17-2006, 10:00 PM
Hello All,

I've been monitoring the feedback and comments about Vyotech products on this site for quite some time now and would like to open up the discussion a little more.

I'm here to answer any and all questions about the products and the direction of the company as a whole.

Contrary to some of the comments on this forum, this is absolutely; positively the first time any representative from Vyotech has done this.

I look forward to fielding your questions.

All the Best


Michael Phillip
Vice President of Sales
Vyotech Nutritionals

Well lets see...... your products dont work, are over priced and over hyped. If you did not take 3 page ads in BB mags then you could probley lower the price on your products. If you did not try to give your products "cool" steroid like names then I would respect you guys more. That is all ohh yea neg rep go back to lurkering dont try to mess with these kids pawning your shaddy products now that is all

Wait 17-hd did make my dick hard :)

Mr. Cruz
04-17-2006, 10:01 PM
I got a question.

First off, I was one of the first to have used 17HD and have been pushing that product because it has worked well for me while everyone else bashed me for praising such a safe product. I've seen some amazing gains in strength. Thanks alot bro.

And now the question.....

Does one need to cycle 17HD and Viraloid??? Any PCT's???

BillyB
04-17-2006, 10:41 PM
Does one need to cycle 17HD and Viraloid??? Any PCT's???

No pct needed. They are herbal and do not suppress natural testosterone production.

bruce_leet19
04-17-2006, 11:44 PM
wow. i just went to vyotech.com for ****s and giggles, saw an ad that says "call now to see how you can GETA free bottle of Viraloid or Nitrobolic", so i called....at 11:45pm PST and they had someone there. 24 hr customer service? nice!

(the deal was pay S/H and you can try outa bottle for 14 days, if you like it they bill you, if not you send it back)

Mr. Cruz
04-17-2006, 11:58 PM
No pct needed. They are herbal and do not suppress natural testosterone production.

I rather here Michael's version.

deserusan
04-18-2006, 12:02 AM
Welcome to the forum!

cakedonkey
04-18-2006, 12:38 AM
I'm sorry, but Viraloid is a blatant scam. I'll let Lok7y do the talking:



It is definitely a scam. I'd never even heard of it until somebody brought it to my attention today. I looked it up and it's clear it is a snake-oil product.

This is the link to a discussion of the supplement where it's creator explains the science behind the product: http://www.personal-training.com.au/...98&whichpage=1

(note: I don't actually recommend reading the whole thing, unless you just want to for a laugh. The more you know about science and physiology, the more hilarious you will find this, I assure you).

This is its creator's explanation for how the product works:


It agonises cortisol receptors in the same way stanazolol does leading to an increase in luteinising hormone and an upregulation in the number of androgenic receptor sites.

This is literally just being made up. This is utterly erroneous and false. Antagonizing the GR (glucocorticoid receptor--what cortisol binds to) is not going to influence LH levels in any way. LH levels are a product of GnRH being released from the pitituary, which goes to the leydig cells in the testes to synthesize LH & FSH, which then prompts sex-steroid synthesis.

Unless he's altering activity in the brain, pitituary, or directly in the testes, there is no way he's increasing LH levels, especially not via glucocorticoid antagonism (a la winstrol, by binding to the GR).

Also the rest of his write-up is exceedingly lacking in good valid data. And the fact that he references one single rat study on winstrol, without backing up any of his other claims should be cause for concern. I don't even see proof anywhere that viraloid antagonizes or binds to the GR. Also, GR interaction is not going to do anything whatsoever to the androgen receptor. This guy seems to literally be pulling BS psedo-science out of his ass.

Also, the fact that he is trying to compare a saponin (Viraloid) to a methylated anabolic steroid (Winstrol/stanazlol) is kind of, umm..., I don't even want to say it. He is essentially claiming that by taking the 'sugars' off it, he is methylating it and rendering it immune to hepatic first-pass metabolism. HOW???


Due to the structure relationships with Methandriol (discussed above), it is a feasible hypothesis that the VIRALOID™, (or TA once stripped of its sugar groups (glucopyranosyl and ramnose)) similar activity will be seen. Anecdotal and initial trialing has confirmed that indeed anabolic actions are present and unlike Anabolic Steroids, more potent synthetic cousins, little to no side effect, other than an increase in libido and in some cases sleeplessness and increased aggression, is seen. Overall an increase in muscle weight, strength and a decrease in visceral body fat were noticed.

HUGE red flag right here. If this product did what he was claiming, it would be INCREASING visceral fat and reducing SUBCUTANEOUS fat.

Then he claims that it is not protodiascin (which is what's in Tribulus and converts to DHEA), and then references a Tribulus/protodiascin study????

I implore you, do not buy this product. It is a complete scam.

So, unless you can refute this (strong) argument, shame on you and your company for releasing such a product.

And liquid creatine has been proven a scam over and over. Very bad.

doogieh
04-18-2006, 03:36 AM
Is the Beta Ecdy extracted from Rhaponticum?

Just wanted to bump my question.

xGhostinGx
04-18-2006, 05:02 AM
Liquid creatine. Hmmm, but now they are legit, they dont sell it anymore. :rolleyes:

Danes sounds like a straight up shill.

Mr Cruz stated he had great gains but was asking about PCT? Clueless. His post just became trash.

The rest of the people praising 17-HD are either teenagers or have low post counts. :rolleyes:

Slated
04-18-2006, 05:23 AM
When viraloid first came out, I called and got one and only paid shipping(actually 2 bottles b/c weight). A few weeks later two more came. I called the customer service number and got a message machine. It took me 4 days to get through to someone who could get the auto billing off my card and my money refunded vs credit for products. I was very displeased with my experience.

UberBerzerker
04-18-2006, 05:31 AM
Danes sounds like a straight up shill.


He's legit.

Danes
04-18-2006, 05:37 AM
He's legit.


Viraloid worked very good! Some things I didnt like was ACne, Incredible aggresion. Im not kidding, sometimes I felt "damn I want to crush face to someone" My gains was good, strengt was good, and I loved that.

BUT , Im working in a shopmarked and it is much stress. MUCH stress lower testo! So if I boost my testo to normal high, that is better than low testo!

I dont realy know, but I cant say it is placebo. Something is in that caps


And I have 5 friends who never took any PH`s or AAS, and they tried viraloid. THey got that agression too, they got acne, gained in bodyweight without increasing calorieintake. Also, one thing we need to remember. heavy steroid-users can not see any results of natural test booster!!! That is sure! Maybe it worked good for me and my friends because we never used any illegal stuf?

Danes
04-18-2006, 05:46 AM
He's legit.

Thank you very much!

Why should I lie about that stuf? I dont earn something If I lie, but sorry If someone think I do.

Danes
04-18-2006, 05:48 AM
Liquid creatine. Hmmm, but now they are legit, they dont sell it anymore. :rolleyes:

Danes sounds like a straight up shill.

Mr Cruz stated he had great gains but was asking about PCT? Clueless. His post just became trash.

The rest of the people praising 17-HD are either teenagers or have low post counts. :rolleyes:

It is sad because you think that about me. but it is ok

UberBerzerker
04-18-2006, 05:51 AM
When viraloid first came out, I called and got one and only paid shipping(actually 2 bottles b/c weight). A few weeks later two more came. I called the customer service number and got a message machine. It took me 4 days to get through to someone who could get the auto billing off my card and my money refunded vs credit for products. I was very displeased with my experience.

did the product not work?

Slated
04-18-2006, 05:57 AM
no, they don't stop sending it to me and it's really hard to get a real person, at least back when it first came out. I didn't like them auto billing my credit card. And yes, I got no results from it.

cakedonkey
04-18-2006, 11:53 AM
Bumping this. Let's get some answers about Viraloid and liquid creatine.

Vyotech Rep
04-18-2006, 02:59 PM
You are right it is derived from Rhaponticum.

spinal1
04-18-2006, 03:10 PM
^^

What a weak response to everything that has been said so far.

acecombact1
04-18-2006, 03:15 PM
how much Forskolin and Usnic Acid are in ab-solution plus?

Vyotech Rep
04-18-2006, 03:18 PM
We no longer manufacture the Liquid Creatine. We have moved on from that time when we first started out....

All companies go through growing pains guys. You don't just become an overnight success. It take alot of trial and error and alot of hard work. I applaud companies like BSN, Cytosport, etc. for having built good solid supplement companies.

Every product we now come out with has cutting edge science and patented or patent pending technology. We own the exclusive rights to it whether it be a delivery system or an extraction process that makes the product unique.

What I don't want to do is come on here and battle with other reps from competitor companies. You will never hear me bash anyone's products. That is not what I'm about.

However if you've got a legit gripe or want to know something about our products and you are a consumer or just a person wanting some answers about an ingredient or it's functionality, by all means please hit me with what you've got.

I definitely won't answer anyone using lude or fowl language either. It's just not necessary. Go to a different thread!

Vyotech Rep
04-18-2006, 03:20 PM
As far as they Ergo Rep who had a bad experience with our customer service please send me a private message with your contact info so I can call you personally and take care of this situation. Thanks

cakedonkey
04-18-2006, 03:27 PM
Still not seeing anything regarding the science behind Viraloid or you disputing anything Chris noted above...

gaberox
04-18-2006, 03:37 PM
The products are created by doctors and chemists. It is very hard to fully educate people on our products because to be honest with sometimes even I don't get it. You have to be a science guy to understand it. I have a bussiness and marketing background.

When ever we liscense new compounds the chemist or doctor comes to the office and gives us a run down on what the product does and how it works. Then they give us a 1500 page substantiation to support the claims... It's hard to cram all of that info into a brochure or sale sheet. We do our best.

Sounds like a scam to me.I called the cust service of vyotech and the rep just couldnt make any sense on how 17-HD works.He couldnt really explain anything.But hey its got the words methyl,halo,and diana in it so its gotta be good.

Vyotech Rep
04-18-2006, 03:39 PM
To answer your question about the Ab-Solution Plus.

Forskolin is approximately .2%

Usnic Acid is .2%

I had to research this myself.

Slated
04-18-2006, 04:17 PM
I spoke shortly ago with Vyotech Rep in regards to my experience with them. I clearly stated my concerns and was pleased to learn of how they've changed in their practises as they've grown. I did not get into any of the science behind their product, but am sure that will be addressed within our forum soon enough.

I look forward to the scientific debates that will most certainly be starting soon. I do have a greater respect towards their company, and do not have any fears of doing business with them or purchasing their product in the future. I look forward to reading the future, science based, discussions in regards to their products however.

Till then, let the welcome spankings continue.

bignpisst
04-18-2006, 04:21 PM
When viraloid first came out, I called and got one and only paid shipping(actually 2 bottles b/c weight). A few weeks later two more came. I called the customer service number and got a message machine. It took me 4 days to get through to someone who could get the auto billing off my card and my money refunded vs credit for products. I was very displeased with my experience.


Same thing happened to me

Slated
04-18-2006, 04:22 PM
Same thing happened to me
It won't happen again

acecombact1
04-18-2006, 04:54 PM
To answer your question about the Ab-Solution Plus.

Forskolin is approximately .2%

Usnic Acid is .2%

I had to research this myself.


hum thats .4g of Forsklin and Usnic acid. very small concentrations.

Formula looks really interesting however, too bad its underdosed.

DTB-DK-LIFTER
04-18-2006, 05:29 PM
i just want to say that Michael here is a stand up guy. I shot him a PM and he responded within an hour, impressive.....two thumbs up for vyotech's rep...

cakedonkey
04-18-2006, 07:49 PM
What I don't want to do is come on here and battle with other reps from competitor companies. You will never hear me bash anyone's products. That is not what I'm about.

I didn't bash your products for a second. I provided a legitimate argument and expect a legitimate answer. Thus far, I've seen nothing.

wdodd
04-18-2006, 08:08 PM
I am using 17-HD right now and have experienced decent results (1% decrease in bodyfat, and i have gained a few pounds). One thing that i have not experienced with 17-HD is the "fast acting power surge" or in increase in intensity that is mentioned in many of your adds.

A little background on me: It is not like i am immune to stimulants or anything, and i do not have a high tolerance or anything, i do not even drink sodas or energy drinks.

Mr. Cruz
04-18-2006, 10:10 PM
Vyotech Rep, my question has not been answered.

my_whey
04-18-2006, 10:24 PM
Vyotech Rep, my question has not been answered.

Yes it has. Someone answered it for you and it was the right answer.

Mr. Cruz
04-18-2006, 10:43 PM
Yes it has. Someone answered it for you and it was the right answer.

I want to see what 'Vyotech Rep' has to say. Not what you or anyone else has to say. I want his input.

deserusan
04-18-2006, 10:48 PM
I have to say that the people in this thread giving this man a hard time need to chill a bit. He is new here and yet you let other companies pimp questionable products and abuse the forum. This board disgusts me sometimes.

Mr. Cruz
04-18-2006, 10:49 PM
I have to say that the people in this thread giving this man a hard time need to chill a bit. He is new here and yet you let other companies pimp questionable products and abuse the forum. This board disgusts me sometimes.

I have to agree with you on that.

my_whey
04-18-2006, 10:51 PM
I have to agree with you on that.

Then quit pressuring him to answer a question that has already been answered. He will answer when he has time.

wantstobeinshap
04-18-2006, 11:11 PM
I have to say that the people in this thread giving this man a hard time need to chill a bit. He is new here and yet you let other companies pimp questionable products and abuse the forum. This board disgusts me sometimes.

I totally agree...its f*ucking annoying...

cakedonkey
04-19-2006, 02:49 AM
The argument I provided from Lok7y was only logical. Until that is properly taken care of, this is a company to steer clear of.

Mr. Cruz
04-19-2006, 05:52 AM
Then quit pressuring him to answer a question that has already been answered. He will answer when he has time.

stfu and mind your own business.

Danes
04-19-2006, 06:07 AM
The argument I provided from Lok7y was only logical. Until that is properly taken care of, this is a company to steer clear of.

bump!

But something is in that caps. Acne and mood swings like a hell..

TE
04-19-2006, 06:38 AM
stfu and mind your own business.
lol. You get 'em tough guy. :rolleyes:

wantstobeinshap
04-19-2006, 08:08 AM
The argument I provided from Lok7y was only logical. Until that is properly taken care of, this is a company to steer clear of.

I'd also like a response to that as well...

Vyotech Rep
04-19-2006, 10:13 AM
Mr. Cruz as with anything that effects testosterone or works well for that matter I would suggest cycling simply because the body will become resistant to it over time.

I would suggest 8-10 weeks on and 1 and a half to 2 weeks off.

Viraloid actually acts like a PCT meaning it stimulates natural test production it is not like taking a synthetic analog. Alot of body builders who use steroids use
Viraloid as a part of their PCT.

I hope I aswered your questions.

Vyotech Rep
04-19-2006, 10:23 AM
I asked the chemist who created Viraloid to come on here and discuss the post in question. Hopefully sometime this week. He lives in Australia. The post is alittle over my head. I'm just being honest guys. If I can't answer it I won't. I don't want to mislead or mis quote anything.

UberBerzerker
04-19-2006, 10:34 AM
I think this guy is doing a fine job of trying to handle all of your questions. You guys should cut him a little slack - he IS trying. Sounds like this company turned over a new leaf, so you don't wanna burn any bridges here guys ;)

Blap Blaow
04-19-2006, 10:39 AM
I asked the chemist who created Viraloid to come on here and discuss the post in question. Hopefully sometime this week. He lives in Australia. The post is alittle over my head. I'm just being honest guys. If I can't answer it I won't. I don't want to mislead or mis quote anything.
Your honesty is appreciate Michael. Far too many bull****ters on the forum as is (me included :D)

Vyotech Rep
04-19-2006, 10:41 AM
Thanks alot for the support guys! You have no idea how much I appreciate it!

wantstobeinshap
04-19-2006, 11:19 AM
Thanks alot for the supports guys! You have no idea how much I appreciate it!

do you possibly have any lab test/blood work from testing proving that 17hd does increase test?

thanks!

Vyotech Rep
04-19-2006, 11:24 AM
We will be adding studies and clinical data to our new website that is being designed as we speak. It will be made available to the public.

Dr.Dave1
04-19-2006, 11:46 AM
I asked the chemist who created Viraloid to come on here and discuss the post in question. Hopefully sometime this week. He lives in Australia. The post is alittle over my head. I'm just being honest guys. If I can't answer it I won't. I don't want to mislead or mis quote anything.
That's refreshing, nice to see you are putting the time into getting the correct answers. So far it looks like you are doing a great job :D

Vyotech Rep
04-19-2006, 03:46 PM
Did you get the Body Sculpture PDF's I sent you?

dito
04-19-2006, 09:24 PM
I have a question. At the Arnold you guys had some pink stuff that tasted amazing. It was some sort of NO product I think. The chick giving it away was amazing! Anyways can you be a pal and send me some more? I think I drank half a gallon of that stuff.

deserusan
04-20-2006, 12:44 AM
guys had some pink stuff that tasted amazing.

<img src="http://www.orlyowl.com/upload/files/wtf.jpg">

:D

Mr. Cruz
04-20-2006, 01:00 AM
Mr. Cruz as with anything that effects testosterone or works well for that matter I would suggest cycling simply because the body will become resistant to it over time.

I would suggest 8-10 weeks on and 1 and a half to 2 weeks off.

Viraloid actually acts like a PCT meaning it stimulates natural test production it is not like taking a synthetic analog. Alot of body builders who use steroids use
Viraloid as a part of their PCT.

I hope I aswered your questions.


Yes you did. Thanks alot buddy.

UberBerzerker
04-20-2006, 05:17 AM
some pink stuff that tasted amazing. The chick giving it away was amazing! Anyways can you be a pal and send me some more?

I love when hot chicks give away their great tasting pink stuff !!!!! :D

Slated
04-20-2006, 05:21 AM
I'm in!

I want free samples of the girl's sweet pink stuff!!!

oO(though because dito says she's hot, does that make her a him?

Vyotech Rep
04-20-2006, 07:14 AM
The girl's sweet pink stuff is called Nitrobolic Extreme. It is an NO, Creatine, Arginine preworkout product. It comes in tropical lemonade. It is a great product to stack the 17 HD with. Talk about being lit up during your workouts.

Those of you who want samples, shoot me a PM with your info where to send. I can't send everyone samples but some of you may get a surprise in the mail.

Blap Blaow
04-20-2006, 07:21 AM
The girl's sweet pink stuff is called Nitrobolic Extreme.
Now that's not very romantic!!

Vyotech Rep
04-20-2006, 10:49 AM
The 10 or so people that sent me a PM with their mailing info. I am sending you all a care package with samples and literature.

However those of you who do recieve these samples I need you to post your progress and your honest opinion of how the products worked for you.

Thanks.

Seth25
04-20-2006, 11:16 AM
The 10 or so people that sent me a PM with their mailing info. I am sending you all a care package with samples and literature.

However those of you who do recieve these samples I need you to post your progress and your honest opinion of how the products worked for you.

Thanks.
will do

Eightpak
04-20-2006, 12:00 PM
PM sent, when can we expect the package?

Vyotech Rep
04-20-2006, 12:15 PM
Hey Guys,

The care packs were sent out today. You should get them by the middle of next week.

Thanks

DTB-DK-LIFTER
04-20-2006, 05:47 PM
Just want to say thanks to Michael vyotech's rep. I recieved my care packet today, i was totally impressed, i think it took like a day or two to get. I tried some of the nitrobolic extreme, good product. I took it on along with a protein shake which it does say not to do, but surprising enough it still worked wonders--more of mental focus,somewhat of pump feeling, and definetly more energy. tomorrow i will try it with out consuming the shake so then we'll see how it really works.

UberBerzerker
04-20-2006, 08:07 PM
u got the package that was went out 5 hours prior to you posting? WTF?

Joel
04-20-2006, 08:09 PM
lol @ "care package" .... "The girl's sweet pink stuff"
<img src="http://www.bluechopsticks.com/img_small/spa-care-package.jpg" width="300" height="250">

my_whey
04-20-2006, 08:12 PM
u got the package that was went out 5 hours prior to you posting? WTF?

^ Good catch.

I want an explination also, that is weird.

Vyotech Rep
04-20-2006, 09:34 PM
You guys are pretty skeptical. I sent out a few sample packs yesterday or should I say on the 18th. I'm in California and DTB lives in Vegas.

Not unlikely that he recieved his stuff already fellas!

Vyotech Rep
04-20-2006, 09:40 PM
I sent out 10 more sample packs today to people who shot me a pm. I'm a man of my word.

If I told you that you are getting a package in the mail I meant it.

Please don't crucify me for doing it quickly!

Vyotech Rep
04-21-2006, 07:14 AM
By the way DTB. You are welcome. I hope you like the stuff!

UberBerzerker
04-21-2006, 07:22 AM
skeptical cuz it's the innerweb, man - if you're not a skeptic, you'll get burned :D

I don't crucify you for sending stuff out with a quickness, I just thought it odd that you posted the stuff was on it's way, then 5 hours later the new guy has his package already. If that's the only facts I told you about something I sent out - wouldn't you kinda doubt it's authenticity, just a little bit? ;)

anyway, no harm no foul - just making sure everything's on the up and up. I'm looking forward to trying the product.

:)

Vyotech Rep
04-21-2006, 08:28 AM
It's all good man. I look forward to getting your feedback.

DTB-DK-LIFTER
04-21-2006, 03:33 PM
I actually pm michael a few days ago, i believe that i was one of the first people to request samples. And yes it showed up the next day. Package contained 6 samples of 17-hd, about 5 samples of the nitrobolic extreme, and shaker cup. When you think about it, here this rep for vyotech coming on this forum to promote his products. Y would one not ask for samples, he is obviously here to get us all turned to vyotech's product. His position at vyotech is director of sales.

And if anyone thinks that i am in any way affiliated with vyotech, let me tell you i am not. I have never tried any of their products till yesterday, and to be quite honest i was not very pleased with their nitrobolic extreme standalone. I just tried it today by it self and yes i did get some more energy, a little more of a focus ability, but not enough like i expected. If i was to compare nitrobolic ex. with No-xplode, i would much rather take BSN verison.

I am going to be taking both products together over the weekend, i will then post how it went.........hope this kinda sorts things out....

Vyotech Rep
04-22-2006, 07:13 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I look forward to hearing what you have to say about taking the 17 HD and Nitrobolic Extreme together.

Vyotech Rep
04-25-2006, 12:00 PM
Has anyone else recieved samples I sent?

dito
04-25-2006, 12:36 PM
I just got mine today. Will hopefully use them tomorrow.

Vyotech Rep
04-25-2006, 12:40 PM
Please use them as directed. The 17 HD and Nitrolbolic Extreme together is a pretty potent one, two punch. Good luck!

coofoostu
04-25-2006, 04:40 PM
Then they give us a 1500 page substantiation to support the claims... It's hard to cram all of that info into a brochure or sale sheet. We do our best.

is there any way we could see this document, or at least a part of it? like upload it to your site via a pdf? perhaps edit out all the stuff you feel is proprietary and do not want your compeditors to see. This way we could discuss the science behind it.

Squats
04-25-2006, 04:41 PM
Another one!?!?!

dito
04-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Please use them as directed. The 17 HD and Nitrolbolic Extreme together is a pretty potent one, two punch. Good luck!

I can't take it on an empty stomach as I need my pre workout meal.

Vyotech Rep
04-25-2006, 06:06 PM
The Doctor/Nuerosurgeon (He is also an avid powerlifter)who developed the 17 HD was in my office here in Beverly Hills the other day and I proposed him the idea of coming on here and answering questions. I'm working out a time schedule with him now. I will post on here in advance when he will be on the forum so you guys can ask questions. He's a busy man but i'm on it. As far as clinicals and things of that nature i'm working on getting that put on our website. The site is still in development. It will be done shortly. So your answer is YES!

I may have exagerated on the 1500 pages. I just know it's alot of info!

Vyotech Rep
04-25-2006, 06:08 PM
I didn't understand your post. "Another one?"

Squats
04-25-2006, 06:08 PM
I didn't understand your post. "Another one?"
Another one = "rep"

Vyotech Rep
04-25-2006, 06:20 PM
I'm here to field questions. Vyotech has gotten some bad press through some fault of our own on this forum from alot of people who have never even tried our products.

People who bash products they have never tried. This is a crazy notion to me.

I'm looking for honest people who have the ability to think for themselves that have tried or would like to try products by Vyotech.

In any case I'm here to dispell or confirm what people are saying without bashing any other companies.

If you read the previous posts I try and answer question as honest as I can. if it is above me I won't answer. I'll get someone else to answer it.

I am happy to have you and your OPINION, what ever that may be on this thread which was started by me.

I look forward to hearing from you!

Squats
04-25-2006, 06:24 PM
Not saying your products or bad (because I have never tried them), but they are expensive. I live in West Virginia, do you think I can afford any of your supplements?

wdodd
04-25-2006, 07:38 PM
I have not received the package from you yet, but then again I am in North Carolina and you are in LA. I’ll give it another day or two. I am about 23 days into a bottle of 17-HD and I am looking forward to the Nitrobolic Extreme to put on top of it.

speed01rcr
04-25-2006, 11:30 PM
To re-address,

What is the difference between Viraloid and 17-HD? Which is better? How different are the effects?

PLease address the above question.

But on another note, I have read that what is in wild yam is a precurser to DHEA and cannot be fully converted to DHEA. Considering DHEA is two steps away from Test., I don't see how it makes any significant hormone difference.

wdodd
04-26-2006, 09:21 AM
I just picked up the package, and just my luck, today is my rest day. I'll post some feedback tomorrow night.

Thanks Michael

Seth25
04-26-2006, 10:09 AM
I recieved my samples yesterday. Won't be taking the Nitro Ex. until Mon. because I'm taking a few weeks off from caffiene but did the 17 HD yesterday(cardio) and let me say this time I felt the power surge...I recieved 5-6 samples from you guys a few months ago and felt absolutely nothing and I've even bashed this product on this forum. I don't know why the first time I didn't feel anything and I even got them from the same address and a couple from GNC but I take back what I said about this. Today I lift so I'll post again after I'm finished. I just took my 2nd sample about ten min ago and waiting for it to kick in.The first time I took this I was really hyped up and was let down when I felt nothing and yesterday when I opened the package I was like oh this crap again,well I might as well take it pre wo so I know it wasn't a placebo effect because I was expecting not to feel anything. THANKS for sending out the samples and getting them here quickly, I believe your company is moving in the right direction!

Seth25
04-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Today I didn't get the rush I got yesterday.WTF

wdodd
04-26-2006, 03:42 PM
Do you know when Vyotech's new website will be put up?



I experienced the same thing. A rush once, and then not again.

dito
05-01-2006, 09:01 PM
I got in two workouts with the nitroblic extreme. One workout with the 17hd.

I took the 17hd and NE one day but didn't go.

one 17hd cap came in crushed.

Taste of NE is amazing. Seemed to have fairly decent focus tonight. No improvement in strength. Seems to be an ok product. I don't really like the ingredient profile and the fact that it's proprietary. If it did not have caffiene I would buy it for the taste alone.

Vyotech Rep
05-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Hey Everybody,

Sorry for not being able to get on here as of late. I've been slammed. However I have some updates. The originator of Viraloid will be posting within the next day or so to address some of the concerns of the board members.

Those of you who called him out.....be prepared! He has alot to say.

I will be posting an official tester thread this week for Nitrobolic Extreme Only.

Please do not send any PM's about it until I post the thread.

Thanks guys!

Slated
05-02-2006, 03:11 PM
This will be a great conversation once your R&D team member comes on!

Biochem
05-02-2006, 08:17 PM
I'm sorry, but Viraloid is a blatant scam. I'll let Lok7y do the talking:




So, unless you can refute this (strong) argument, shame on you and your company for releasing such a product.

And liquid creatine has been proven a scam over and over. Very bad.

OK, so it has been some time since I have posted here. Some of you will know me and some will not. I used to train for size, had some injuries and focused on research instead, for about 15 years! Now I train for fitness. My sport is no longer BB but IPSC which is essentially running with a gun. My hobbies are arguing with government bodies and working with pro athletes to gain minor advantage in what they do. I am the current sponsor of Luke Wood and Miguel Filho, both IFBB Pro’s. I have a couple of passions other than my wife and children and shooting at cardboard and they are:

Idiots who appear to call me out using someone else’s comments and thoughts, and
Truth in Science and representation of data.

Biochem
05-02-2006, 08:19 PM
Now right off the bat I would like to point a few things out. “Science is an ever mobile body of knowledge, thus what is right today could be wrong tomorrow” and if something works, why spend money to find out why. I don’t want to pay for it and I know you certainly don’t. I am not in marketing but someone has to do it. When you’re in my position, it’s a bit like being constantly misquoted by the press. The ad guys don’t want to admit that a] we might not know why something is the way it is, and b] where too many big words are involved with too many inter-relating topics, things get confusing and information gets slashed, often leading to information being misconstrued. Information which starts as ‘maybe’ ends up as ‘fact’ and various mechanisms of action related to one effect get attributed to another.

So where do I begin.

No, I don’t know exactly how it works. No one does. In fact, a very large firm in Eastern Europe, manufacturing many millions of dollars more stuff than we do, spends many hundreds of pages to come to the same basic conclusions as I do. ‘It might do this’ and ‘we suspect the following effect may be caused by’. However studies show this xyz. Proof is always in the pudding and so I gave away samples. From those we handed out, long after it was selling and proven to work, the majority of users came back and agreed it worked. Even strong critics became allies. I am not one to back down, as those who watched me go head to head with Almost Pro will assert (including he) and I can usually pull out some sort of science to back what I say. Having said that I do rely on first hand experience to back what I say.

For most of you, you can tune out here. I am likely to lose myself let alone the average punter who only wanted to get bigger. We can however address some issues. I will use studies to show that the pseudoscience I have used does indeed have some grounding in the lab, and I did not pull it completely out of my arse.

Indisputable facts that some board members can attribute to Viraloid:

Aggression
Strength
Acne
Physical size increase
Increase in libido
Gynacomastia

These could be attributed to either an increase in testosterone or estrogen. How can we tell? Assumption to follow.


Also, the fact that he is trying to compare a saponin (Viraloid) to a methylated anabolic steroid (Winstrol/stanazlol) is kind of, umm..., I don't even want to say it. He is essentially claiming that by taking the 'sugars' off it, he is methylating it and rendering it immune to hepatic first-pass metabolism. HOW???

First of all, Viraloid is not 17aa. It is not methylated. It is also not a saponin, but a steroidal sapogenin. I don’t actually recall saying this. Might I suggest my words have been manipulated to make me look uneducated.

Assumption- Structurally it is not recognized by liver enzymes as an active hormone but more likely as a cholesterol. Cholesterol does not in most cases undergo first pass metabolism. In fact, ingestion of cholesterol may lead to a depression in cholesterogenesis [1] which in turn leads to a reduction in LDL. Is this relevant, or even realistic? Yes. We know that the supplementation of Tribulus shifts the balance of plasma cholesterol in favour of HDL and in most cases reduces overall levels.

Biochem
05-02-2006, 08:20 PM
Zhong Yao Cai. 2003 May;26(5):341-4. [Effect of saponin from Tribulus terrestris on hyperlipidemia] Chu S, Qu W, Pang X, Sun B, Huang X.

School of Life Science, East China Normal University, Shanghai 200062.

The preventive and therapeutic effects of saponin from Tribulus terrestris L. on diet-induced hyperlipidemia in mice have been studied. It showed that in preventive experiment the saponin could significantly low the levels of serum TC (P < 0.05), LDL-c (P < 0.01) and liver TC (P < 0.05), TG (P < 0.05), and increase the activities of superoxide-dismutase (SOD) in liver. The therapeutic experiment showed that the saponin could significantly reduce the contents of serum TC (P < 0.05) and liver TC (P < 0.01). [Translated from Chinese]

So where does this leave us? Alkaloids (steroidal Sapogenins from WY, TT, Fenugreek and so on) which are structurally similar to cholesterol are absorbed into the blood stream without chemical manipulation. This is why we ensure the ramnose (sugar) groups are removed. We do not want the body to assume anything with regard to the changes we need this chemical to undergo. We do not want to assume we have the necessary enzymes present, the necessary quantity or digestive rate required to present the molecule in its purest forms. Neither do we wish to assume that a commercial quantity of tribulus, standardized to primitive or proto dioscin, contains a given quantity of sapogenin in the first place.

Now, why did I use the said study to demonstrate a possible course of activity? First of all, the words ‘because I said it works’ hold no value, even to those whom use and like my methodology. How, why? Well maybe. How on earth would a cholesterol-like compound make you leaner? How could it increase testosterone? Well maybe by mimicking some of the actions of a group of chemicals for which like structural similarities are found. While the particular sapogenins we are talking about are not 17aa, they do carry structural relevance in the 1-6 carbon ring. Rather than have a double bond oxygen group at the number 3 position, the said compound has a single bond hydroxyl group, as does Methandriol. Stanazolol, on the other hand, has a pyrazole structure in the 2,3 position. The commonality lays in the fact the double bond found in androgen class steroids (testosterone replacements) in the 4,5 position is missing. It is a fair assumption, which is not addressed in the Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology [2], that since methyl testosterone showed no results compared with stanazolol in binding with LAGS (not GR), mechanisms other than the steroid being 17 alpha alkylated are at play. The next most obvious (not definitely correct) similarity or commonality is the structure in the 1-6 positions.

This is literally just being made up. This is utterly erroneous and false. Antagonizing the GR (glucocorticoid receptor--what cortisol binds to) is not going to influence LH levels in any way. LH levels are a product of GnRH being released from the pitituary, which goes to the leydig cells in the testes to synthesize LH & FSH, which then prompts sex-steroid synthesis.

Unless he's altering activity in the brain, pitituary, or directly in the testes, there is no way he's increasing LH levels, especially not via glucocorticoid antagonism (a la winstrol, by binding to the GR).

This is a fair statement BUT as a realist I would never commit to a statement such as this. There are many things we don’t know, we can’t all know everything. Making an assumption, yes. Utterly erroneous, please explain?? For my argument to gain validity I need to establish a link between the binding of mineral cortico or glucocortico receptors and the rise and/or fall of GnRH, LH, FST or GH. A clear link can be given to the effects of increased ACTH, however new studies showing that stanazolol may in fact increase the number of GR, and in turn the plasma concentrations of cortisol, makes the argument mute. Still, lets look at some of the evidence that leads me to this conclusion which needs to be rebutted on a scientific level, rather than just its ‘utterly erroneous’.

For reference win/stanazolol does not bind with the GR as the quoted writer states. It does explain why W/S is used as a cutting drug rather than a bulking one though.

Now the effect of glucocortico steroids on testosterone;

Biochem
05-02-2006, 08:21 PM
J R Coll Physicians Lond. 1997 Mar-Apr;31(2):168-70. Testosterone concentrations in men on chronic glucocorticosteroid therapy.
Fitzgerald RC, Skingle SJ, Crisp AJ.Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge.

To determine whether free (or active) testosterone concentrations are reduced in men receiving glucocorticosteroids for chronic inflammatory diseases, 17 men (mean age 55.5 years) receiving a mean daily dose of 16.3 mg prednisolone, and 13 control patients (mean age 52.2 years) receiving no prednisolone, were studied. Serum testosterone and the testosterone/sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) ratio were measured. The testosterone/SHBG ratio (a measure of free (active) testosterone) was significantly reduced in patients treated with prednisolone (p = 0.026), thus showing that glucocorticosteroids reduce free testosterone in male patients. This may be an important cause of glucocorticosteroid-induced osteoporosis, and suggests an additional approach to bone prophylaxis and treatment.

This is one of numerous studies citing the effect of cortisol-like compounds on endogenous testosterone. Does it work in reverse? Maybe not above levels that are considered normal, however the rise in cortisol after exercise will, according to the above study, decrease free testosterone.

Don’t forget this is only one possible mechanism by which Viraloid may work. Theoretical yes, out of my arse, NO.

What have we established? Compounds that don’t have the traditional structure/activity relationship, however are anabolics, such as stanazolol and others [3], do have an affinity for some (LAGS) GR. Can we prove Viraloid does? NO. Does Viraloid work? YES. Is it possible it works via a similar mechanism? Maybe.

This is literally just being made up. This is utterly erroneous and false. Antagonizing the GR (glucocorticoid receptor--what cortisol binds to) is not going to influence LH levels in any way. LH levels are a product of GnRH being released from the pitituary, which goes to the leydig cells in the testes to synthesize LH & FSH, which then prompts sex-steroid synthesis.

Now I am confused. We have studies showing that the manipulation of testosterone is possible using glucocortico steroids. I would usually be willing to discuss this but it appears the author has left no room for discussion. Of course it could be that mRNA and as yet undetermined messenger proteins signal these responses. Something does. Of course, I may have missed the mark.

If it is the brain we are working on, consider the following.

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Jan 4;96(1-2):127-32. Effect of Tribulus terrestris on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase activity and androgen receptors in rat brain.
Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, Singapore 119074, Singapore.

Tribulus terrestris L. (Zygophyllaceae) have been used as an aphrodisiac both in the Indian and Chinese traditional systems of medicine. Administration of Tribulus terrestris extract (TT) increased sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure both in normal and castrated rats and these effects were probably due to the androgen increasing property of TT. The objective of the present study is to evaluate the effect of TT on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase (NADPH-d) activity and androgen receptor (AR) immunoreactivity in rat brain. Twenty-four adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into two groups of twelve each. Group I was treated with distilled water and Group II was treated with TT at the dose of 5mg/kg body weight orally, once daily for 8 weeks. Following treatment transcardiac perfusion was done with Ringer lactate, 4% paraformaldehyde and 30% sucrose. The brain tissue was removed and sections of the paraventricular (PVN) area of hypothalamus were taken for NADPH-d and AR immunostaining. There was an increase in both NADPH-d (67%) and AR immunoreactivity (58%) in TT treated group and these results were statistically

Biochem
05-02-2006, 08:25 PM
significant compared to the control. Chronic treatment of TT in rats increases the NADPH-d positive neurons and AR immunoreactivity in the PVN region. Androgens are known to increase both AR and NADPH-d positive neurons either directly or by its conversion to oestrogen. The mechanism for the observed increase in AR and NADPH-d positive neurons in the present study is probably due to the androgen increasing property of TT. The findings from the present study add further support to the aphrodisiac claims of TT.

So maybe one of my earlier hypotheses was wrong. Or not. (I’m still not convinced). I have always concluded that the increase in activity of LAGS will increase the level of AR. The reverse is certainly true, where supplemented androgen mediates a decrease in the number of GR and in plasma Cortisol [4]. I pose this - what if alkaloids and sapogenins from WY, TT and other variants bind to the GR/LAGS and other relevant proteins in the same manner as Tamoxifen does with the Oestrogen receptor? Far fetched? No, phytoestrogens have long ago established themselves as high affinity, low activity oestrogens in such a similar manner.

Now what if all this were speculation also? Keep in mind that all science, prior to being given $100 000 000 budgets, starts as theory and speculation. Hence I pose the next theory of activity: Steroidal Sapogenins have the ability to increase intramuscular absorption of nutrients. I leave you with this study:


Zhong Yao Cai. 2002 Jun;25(6):420-2.[Hypoglycemic effect of saponin from Tribulus terrestris] Li M, Qu W, Wang Y, Wan H, Tian C.

School of Life Science, East China Normal University, Shanghai 200062.

OBJECTIVE: To study the hypoglycemic effect of saponin from Tribulus terrestris L. METHOD: Alloxan was used to establish the diabetic model in mice. Phenformin Hydrochlride Tables was used as the positive control. The level of glucose, triglyceride, cholesterol and SOD in serum were determined. RESULTS: The level of serum glucose could be significantly reduced by saponin from Tribulus terrestris, which was the rate of 26.25% and 40.67% in normal mice and diabetic mice in respectively. The level of serum triglyceride could be reduced 23.35%. The saporin could also decrease the content of serum cholesterol. Serum SOD activity of the mice was increased by the saponin. CONCLUSION: Saponin from Tribulue terrestris could significantly reduce the level of serum glucose.
[Article in Chinese]



[1] 1953 Mar;201(1):137-41. Cholesterol synthesis by liver. III. Its regulation by ingested cholesterol. TOMKINS GM, SHEPPARD H, CHAIKOFF IL

[2] J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Dec;87(4-5):253-64.
Photoaffinity labeling identification of thyroid hormone-regulated glucocorticoid-binding peptides in rat liver endoplasmic reticulum: an oligomeric protein with high affinity for 16beta-hydroxylated stanozolol.

Betancor-Hernandez E, Perez-Machin R, Henriquez-Hernandez L, Mateos-Diaz C, Novoa-Mogollon J, Fernandez-Perez L.

[3] J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1996 Dec;279(3):1123-9 Identification of a specific binding site for the anabolic steroid stanozolol in male rat liver microsomes. Boada LD, Fernandez L, Zumbado M, Luzardo OP, Chirino R, Diaz-Chico BN.

[4] J Neuroendocrinol. 1996 Jun;8(6):439-47Androgens modulate glucocorticoid receptor mRNA, but not mineralocorticoid receptor mRNA levels, in the rat hippocampus. Kerr JE, Beck SG, Handa RJ.

Biochem
05-02-2006, 08:37 PM
Ok now further to this arguement I add the following:

Protodioscin has a molecular weight of 869 through to 1500 plus. It is a chemically primitive or impure form of dioscin. Dioscin has a MW of 869, and is determined to have equal portions of bound sugars and sapogenin.

When you buy 'Protodioscin' you really have no idea how much 'hormone' you are getting. With Viraloid, you need not worry about 'how much'.

Then he claims that it is not protodiascin (which is what's in Tribulus and converts to DHEA), and then references a Tribulus/protodiascin study????


Tribulus and other sterol containing plants CANNOT be converted to active hormones. Proto or Dioscin or the Sapogenins DO NOT convert to Androsteindione or DHEA. Obviousley the author of the initial critisism was not aware of this fact, which makes me curious as to his (lok7y) credibility on this subject. Show me some of your science son.

The chemical is ProtodiOscin, not ProtodiAscin. Unfortunatley the studies are done using Protodioscin. In some studies you will note they purify the sapogenins, as we do.

Biochem
05-03-2006, 03:21 PM
Bump

I didnt write 10 000 words to amuse myself! Well actually I did but I'm interested in what you have to say too.

HalleluYAH
05-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Taste of NE is amazing.
Agreed, the taste is quite enjoyable. You should try mixing it with some vanilla whey. :) However, I have a bottle of Nitrobolic Lemon/Lime flavor. Not sure if this is the same as Nitrobolic Extreme.

I used about 1/2 of the bottle for a dozen or so workouts. I recall a noticeable shortness of breath during these workouts, though looking back I am not sure whether the Nitrobolic was the culprit. What I can say is that since I stopped taking, the shortness of breath has dissipated.

HalleluYAH
05-03-2006, 06:33 PM
Bump

I didnt write 10 000 words to amuse myself! Well actually I did but I'm interested in what you have to say too.
All that you have written is nice, you are a smart man, but IMHO the information outlines above does NOT lend much credence to 17HD or Viraloid. Why would anyone pay the price tag of these products based on theoretical speculation that taking them may increase testosterone and/or have some ergogenic effect? IMO it makes more sense to buy a good forskolin product and increase testosterone naturally and cost effectively? As for ergogenic performance, why not just stick with AAs, Citrulline Male, Beta-Alanine and Creatine?

How does Vyotech substantiate the price tag of these products? I appreciate your posting here on bb.bom. IMO Vyotech truly needed a boost in reputation. I like the ingenuity of your products, but the marketing tactics (including what I have perceived as board spam) and lack of clinicals supporting the ingredients in 17HD and Viraloid has harmed your credibility.

That said, I stand to be corrected. ;) :)

Biochem
05-03-2006, 08:46 PM
Show me definitive evidence that AAs, Citrulline Male, Beta-Alanine and Creatine are;

a- Ergogenic
b- Actually do anything

It will be almost impossible, other than data such as I have presented for Viraloid.

As for Forskolin- I challenge you to find any data positive to gaining LMM let alone increase testosterone.

solarize
05-03-2006, 10:24 PM
Are you seriously asking for evidence (definitive) that AAS - Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids do anything?


Show me definitive evidence that AAs, Citrulline Male, Beta-Alanine and Creatine are;

a- Ergogenic
b- Actually do anything

It will be almost impossible, other than data such as I have presented for Viraloid.

As for Forskolin- I challenge you to find any data positive to gaining LMM let alone increase testosterone.

Biochem
05-04-2006, 12:42 AM
AAs as I understand is Amino Acids. AAS is Androgenic-Anabolic Steroids. Of course steroids work. :|

RobW
05-04-2006, 01:53 AM
Show me definitive evidence that AAs, Citrulline Male, Beta-Alanine and Creatine are;

a- Ergogenic
b- Actually do anything

It will be almost impossible, other than data such as I have presented for Viraloid.

As for Forskolin- I challenge you to find any data positive to gaining LMM let alone increase testosterone.

What do you classify as "definative evidence"? I think the benefits of AAs & Creatine are very well documented, both in the lab and in the gym...

O/T...are you English, just the way you write your posts, make me think you could be a fellow Brit...

Biochem
05-04-2006, 02:08 AM
Close, I have kangaroo's in my backyard.

If the evidence exists, find some for me. BB does not attract research dollars so finding evidence that these do anything , in athletesis thin on the ground.

I have studies on Musashi Amino Acids, showing that meat is more anabolic.

I have studies showing creatine supplementation does nothing.

I have studies showing AAS (steroids) do nothing in athletes.

I didnt say they didnt do anything, what I am saying is to produce difinitive data for supplements (other than propiotary unpublished stuff) usually cant be done.

Now what I say is I have given sound hypothesis. I can produce athelets that have used and made gains on it. Where is the lacking credibility?

HalleluYAH
05-04-2006, 05:36 AM
Show me definitive evidence that AAs, Citrulline Male, Beta-Alanine and Creatine are;

a- Ergogenic
b- Actually do anything

It will be almost impossible, other than data such as I have presented for Viraloid.

As for Forskolin- I challenge you to find any data positive to gaining LMM let alone increase testosterone.
AAs

Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.

Beta-Alanine (Carnosine):
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=556710&highlight=beta+alanine

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.

Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. ktipton@utmb.edu

The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

hmmm, let's see, an increase in net protein synthesis. wonder if that's any good? are you contesting the benefit of AA supplementation?

Beta-Alanine

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/HalleluYAH/ba1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/HalleluYAH/ba2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

Creatine

It would take hours of time to post all the studies proving Creatine's ergogenic effectiveness. While some studies have not produced positive results, much of this could be due to a poor quality of Creatine which may have essentially been creatinine.

Biochem
05-04-2006, 03:32 PM
hahahaha, Six men? Thats an awesome sample group. Can you post the methodology of the first study please? How much carb (as this will act by itself) vs which amino acids.

Remember I didnt say they didnt work. I do note that the results are not difinitive. It indicates In Viraloid, one study we did on about 20 individuals showed 90% had a strength increase, using existing patterns of exercise. This indicates viraloid, at least, acts as an ergogenic aid. Weight gain in the same population indicates an increase in LLM where the skin folds on 9 points was reduced.

I also need the breakdown of the subjects chosen for the second study. While the study may indicate an increase (the table requires some assumptions) were they trained individuals. Was this part of their regular training. Were they 'normal average subjects' that walked past a gym once?

28 days of increased aerobic exercise will leave you a site fitter (VO2)(TTE) than on the first day.

I am not showing they dont work however I am showing no study is perfect and we rely on what is shown in the gym for results. Leaving my credibility intact.

Forget creatine for the moment. We can debate that later if you wish.

forskolin- increase testosterone- go for it, show me

Biochem
05-04-2006, 03:41 PM
OK I have to retract my statement in the past post. I dont think the table shows anything?

Can you explain, or post their explaination of the results?

HalleluYAH
05-04-2006, 05:10 PM
hahahaha, Six men? Thats an awesome sample group. Can you post the methodology of the first study please? How much carb (as this will act by itself) vs which amino acids.
"The EAC consisted of 6 g of essential amino acids, in amounts designed to increase muscle free intracellular amino acid levels in proportion to their respective requirements for protein synthesis, and 35 g of sucrose in 500 ml of deionized-distilled water. The amounts of essential amino acids in a 500-ml bolus EAC solution were (mg and µmol, respectively) histidine 0.65, 4.2; isoleucine 0.60, 4.6; leucine 1.12, 8.5; lysine 0.93, 6.4; methionine 0.19, 1.3; phenylalanine 0.93, 5.6; threonine 0.88, 7.4; and valine 0.7, 6.0."

irishjack923
05-04-2006, 10:52 PM
can 17-HD be used during your cycle to bring up your levels once they are lowered by anabolic use?

ThaLastOG
05-06-2006, 07:50 AM
I have tired 17 HD and VIRALOID .i liked 17 HD when i was taking and VIRALOID was kind of disapointting, but it stared comming with a sample for nitrobolic i tried the 2 samples and i loved.what a rush! and plus it had Kre-Alkalyn in it.So i went to buy a tub of Nitrobolic extrmeme and when i got it in the mail and looked at the label and no where to be found was Kre-Alkalyn.where did it go???????

Vyotech Rep
05-09-2006, 07:28 AM
I'd like to thank Biochem, the creator of Viraloid for coming here to talk with the forum members. I would also like to thank those of you who posted. I'm impressed. Some of you guys know your stuff.

My next quest is to get the creator of the 17 HD on here.

As far as the question about 17 HD and M1T. I do recomend taking any product that raises your natural test levels when putting synthetic or anything that stops your bodies natural production of Free test.

Vyotech Rep
05-09-2006, 07:34 AM
Nitrobilc question. We discontinued making the regular Nitrobolic. Simply put.....Nobody was interested. People seem to really love the Nitrobolic Extreme. It is flying off the shelves. Both products are made with best of best as far as ingredients go. We didn't cut any corners. If you knew how much it costs us to make the products you would think we were crazy. Very expensive.

double J313
05-09-2006, 03:32 PM
would i be able to take 17-hd and viraloid together?

ThaLastOG
05-09-2006, 09:16 PM
If you say thay were both made from the best of the best.Then why did vyo-tech take a step down with the creatine.Kre-Alkalyn is alot better than CEE.Nitrbolic has a lot better results than Nitrobolc Extreme.I think if you would have put the first Nitrobolic in a purple bottle and put "Extreme" on it ,it would have sold 2.If you have any say in the company get the CEE replaced w/ Kre-Alkalyn if you want the "best of the best".

BoClassic77
05-09-2006, 09:25 PM
are you only supposed to take it on training days?
what about days off?

wdodd
05-10-2006, 08:41 AM
The directions on the bottle are not very clear, so i called vyotech. They told me to take it 30 min. before working out, and in the mornings, 30 min. before breakfast on non workout days.

double J313
05-10-2006, 03:07 PM
i've been taking 17 hd on training days only like 4-5 days a week. Is that bad?

Vyotech Rep
05-10-2006, 04:25 PM
17 HD is designed to be taken daily. You should take it on your off days. The earlier in the day the better because of the thermogenic effect.

double J313
05-14-2006, 07:35 PM
I would advise you guys to put in the directions that it is to be used everyday. All u have on there now is take 1 tablet 30 minutes prior to workout, it makes it seem like you dont need to take it on days you dont work out

Vyotech Rep
05-15-2006, 10:20 AM
It will be added. Thanks!

landaishan
05-15-2006, 11:08 AM
Hello All,

I've been monitoring the feedback and comments about Vyotech products on this site for quite some time now and would like to open up the discussion a little more.

I'm here to answer any and all questions about the products and the direction of the company as a whole.

Contrary to some of the comments on this forum, this is absolutely; positively the first time any representative from Vyotech has done this.

I look forward to fielding your questions.

All the Best


Michael Phillip
Vice President of Sales
Vyotech Nutritionals

hi you seem nice :)

landaishan
05-15-2006, 11:27 AM
Bump

I didnt write 10 000 words to amuse myself! Well actually I did but I'm interested in what you have to say too.
haha :P you amused me, tho i didnt read most of it

Danes
05-15-2006, 04:33 PM
I dont know, but something is in that Viraloid caps.

Im not one who lie and Im one who like to try natural supplements.
Me and my friend tried Viraloid 5 weeks each.

My weight increased without adding more calories or proteins.
Strenght gains was not so good, but some few things I REALY noticed:

-AGRESSION:

believe me or not, after 1 week or something like that, I felt that my agression was high. I felt that I was not affraid of things I used to be. My theory is : more testosterone, less fear. and that is true.

ACNE:

Yes, I got acne on my shoulders and my back. My mate got in face too.


INCREASED IN LIBIDO:

I can tell you something, this stuf gave me incredible LIBIDO. I was horny 24/7.



Summary:

I felt Physical transformation , and I felt that "this is not me". I tried to tell me "come on, this is just a natural supplement, and like other said, it is bull****" .
One thing I noticed , after 3-5 days off, i was back in "normal". MY agression was not so strong, my libido was CRAP compared to Viraloid. On viraloid, I woke up with ROCKET, and after I felt like a 60 years old granny. So, Actually, I got little bit depressed after viraloid. Because I lost many of those things like libido and good agression.

My friend noticed same things.

Maybe I have low testosterone, I just dont know, BUT I could REALY feel something. I tried 17-hd but I stopped because I could not sleep of that! I tried 5 days but I could not more... My friend tried too, but he could not sleep too.

this is MY experience on viraloid, and please, I dont wanna hear negative feedback. Im not trying to fool anybody here.

Cas6236
05-15-2006, 11:39 PM
I have the same effects from 17hd that you got from Viraload. I take 17hd in the afternoon, around 3, and have no trouble sleeping. My wife has noticed that my aggression is getting higher, I can keep it in check most of the time, but in the gym, I'm a totally different creature, beastly even, damn near primal. But I think it's worth the gains, I've lost a lot of fat, and put on a whole new chunk of muscle.

Seth25
05-15-2006, 11:46 PM
17 HD is designed to be taken daily. You should take it on your off days. The earlier in the day the better because of the thermogenic effect.
if your not feeling any effects on one pill...whats your advice on taking two or three? Of course that would get really expensive.

double J313
05-16-2006, 03:34 PM
I am on 17hd right now and was thinking about taking viraloid at the same time. Has anyone done this? if so what were your results?

wdodd
05-17-2006, 01:51 PM
I am glad to see that the new website if finally up. On the website it mentions a super anabolic stack, 17- HD with viraloid, so i gues it's okay to take them together.

Personally i want to hear more about this new porduct for the summer of 2006

szjl29
05-17-2006, 06:29 PM
Mr. Vyotech,

I just purchased some Viraloid with a partner of mine. We have previously taken BMF Hardcore M-Test. I gained 33 lbs in 3 months but I ate (healthy) alot and worked out hard. I look forward to trying the product and I will post my results during the program.

Other then that, thanks for everything so far. You have been very informative and helpful while keeping your cool over the rude threads left for you. The way I see it is everything is worth a try.

Vyotech Rep
05-18-2006, 10:02 AM
Thanks Alot. I do what I can do. I look forward to hearing your feedback on the Viraloid. You should try stacking it with Nitrobolic Extreme. It is a great 1 2 punch.


Mr. Vyotech,

I just purchased some Viraloid with a partner of mine. We have previously taken BMF Hardcore M-Test. I gained 33 lbs in 3 months but I ate (healthy) alot and worked out hard. I look forward to trying the product and I will post my results during the program.

Other then that, thanks for everything so far. You have been very informative and helpful while keeping your cool over the rude threads left for you. The way I see it is everything is worth a try.

Vyotech Rep
05-18-2006, 10:16 AM
The new product coming out this summer is under tight security. JK. I will tell you that it is a highly absorbable protein coming from a different source.

It's a whole new whey with some unique technology. Stuff tastes great with no bloating and no gas. Your ladies will love it.

I can't really talk more about it.


I am glad to see that the new website if finally up. On the website it mentions a super anabolic stack, 17- HD with viraloid, so i gues it's okay to take them together.

Personally i want to hear more about this new porduct for the summer of 2006

bobburn
05-18-2006, 10:20 AM
If you say thay were both made from the best of the best.Then why did vyo-tech take a step down with the creatine.Kre-Alkalyn is alot better than CEE.Nitrbolic has a lot better results than Nitrobolc Extreme.I think if you would have put the first Nitrobolic in a purple bottle and put "Extreme" on it ,it would have sold 2.If you have any say in the company get the CEE replaced w/ Kre-Alkalyn if you want the "best of the best".


Kre-alkalyn is far from the "best of the best." Apparently you're also buying into their nonsense ad blitz. Buffered is no more effective than other forums of creatine, and most definately isn't better than CEE. More expensive? yes. Better? No.

Vyotech Rep
05-18-2006, 11:06 AM
What I meant by that coment is that we always use the highest grade of whatever ingredient we are using. It is usually the most expensive. Your manufacturer will thank you for it. Higher grade raw materials is what I meant.

Believe it or not you can buy lower quality of raw materials that are less absorbable in the body or just don't work.

We do not do this. We could be like other companies and put lower grade materials and charge you less but we don't.

We feel it makes a big difference in the functionality of the product.

You get what you pay for!

dito
05-18-2006, 11:14 AM
Do you have independant lab anylis on your raws?

HalleluYAH
05-18-2006, 11:19 AM
What I meant by that coment is that we always use the highest grade of whatever ingredient we are using. It is usually the most expensive. Your manufacturer will thank you for it. Higher grade raw materials is what I meant.

Believe it or not you can buy lower quality of raw materials that are less absorbable in the body or just don't work.

We do not do this. We could be like other companies and put lower grade materials and charge you less but we don't.

We feel it makes a big difference in the functionality of the product.

You get what you pay for!
This is just a suggestion, but I am wondering if you have considered supplying a bottle of 17HD or a bottle of Viraloid to some of the better known bb.com forum users for testing? Testers should be over the age of 35/40 and be willing to provide before/after pix and measurments. If someone is willing to post before/after bloodwork, even better.

It appears this is the ONLY way, outside of paying for labaratory/clinical testing, Vyotech will make believers out of some of us.

No hard feelings, just my .02/cents

Slated
05-18-2006, 11:21 AM
This is just a suggestion, but I am wondering if you have considered supplying a bottle of 17HD or a bottle of Viraloid to some of the better known bb.com forum users for testing? Testers should be over the age of 35/40 and be willing to provide before/after pix and measurments. If someone is willing to post before/after bloodwork, even better.

It appears this is the ONLY way, outside of paying for labaratory/clinical testing, Vyotech will make believers out of some of us.

Nor hard feelings, just my .02/cents
I recommended the exact same in their big thread

UberBerzerker
05-18-2006, 11:22 AM
This is just a suggestion, but I am wondering if you have considered supplying a bottle of 17HD or a bottle of Viraloid to some of the better known bb.com forum users for testing? Testers should be over the age of 35/40 and be willing to provide before/after pix and measurments. If someone is willing to post before/after bloodwork, even better.

It appears this is the ONLY way, outside of paying for labaratory/clinical testing, Vyotech will make believers out of some of us.

Nor hard feelings, just my .02/cents

true story and a good idea.

Vyotech Rep
05-18-2006, 11:41 AM
I am totally in favor of doing this. Please send me addresses in my PM.

UberBerzerker
05-18-2006, 11:43 AM
I am totally in favor of doing this. Please send me addresses in my PM.

start a thread asking for men over 35 y.o. to apply.

Vyotech Rep
05-18-2006, 11:45 AM
Will do. I'm running out the door but will try to get to it today. Thanks guys.

wdodd
05-18-2006, 12:15 PM
I would just like to say that i think that this is a great idea, i read a review on viraloid and the guy only used it for about two weeks... he did not see great results, but it was only two weeks, I guess what i am getting at is that i would like to see entire cycles, not just one bottle.

Slated
05-18-2006, 12:29 PM
The selection thread should go on the OVER 35 Board! !!!!

There's a TON of great vets over here that the supp section never sees!

Lonny
05-18-2006, 12:36 PM
The selection thread should go on the OVER 35 Board! !!!!

There's a TON of great vets over here that the supp section never sees!


May i suggest NuclearArms? He can even compare it to SAN Attitude which has actual bloodtests backing up its effectiveness. He writes a great review as well. The over 35 forum has a large number of people who would make great reviewers.

HalleluYAH
05-18-2006, 01:32 PM
May i suggest NuclearArms? He can even compare it to SAN Attitude which has actual bloodtests backing up its effectiveness. He writes a great review as well. The over 35 forum has a large number of people who would make great reviewers.
Excellent recommendation.

Also, Vyotech Rep, please post a link to any "request for testers" in this thread so we can follow. I am very interested in this. :)

Slated
05-18-2006, 01:35 PM
very good idea Lonny!

speed01rcr
05-23-2006, 12:26 AM
How has vyotech proven that these supplements are safe? Are threre any studies to prove this? Or are we the lab rats running around in the gym?

Are these products like VIroloid and 17-hd, carcinogenic? Or cause heart problems?

I would like some feed back on this.

ccmhcky88
05-23-2006, 01:06 AM
lol. You get 'em tough guy. :rolleyes:
lmao

ccmhcky88
05-23-2006, 01:07 AM
How has vyotech proven that these supplements are safe? Are threre any studies to prove this? Or are we the lab rats running around in the gym?

Are these products like VIroloid and 17-hd, carcinogenic? Or cause heart problems?

I would like some feed back on this.
he has a very good point, i think more tests and studies should be used to back up these products

onehawaiian
05-23-2006, 10:54 AM
How has vyotech proven that these supplements are safe? Are threre any studies to prove this? Or are we the lab rats running around in the gym?

Are these products like VIroloid and 17-hd, carcinogenic? Or cause heart problems?

I would like some feed back on this.keep reading threads.
u will soon notice that we are indeed lab rats, all looking for free samples.

speed01rcr
05-25-2006, 09:33 PM
What I figured. No answer. Experimental drugs labeled suppliments.

sicosico
05-30-2006, 11:03 PM
I'm sorry, but Viraloid is a blatant scam. I'll let Lok7y do the talking:




So, unless you can refute this (strong) argument, shame on you and your company for releasing such a product.

And liquid creatine has been proven a scam over and over. Very bad.
thnaks for the quote viraloid is 100% scam

xGhostinGx
05-31-2006, 12:23 AM
Im not trying to fool anybody here.

I dont think you are, but you are misinformed about how this works. See below:




My weight increased without adding more calories or proteins.




After, without additional calories to support the new "weight", it would NOT have gone up. Sorry.

Q-Ball83
06-12-2006, 04:48 PM
i just started taking viraloid yesterday.
i am curantly 169, five days ago i got on the scale and i was at 174. since yesterday after starting viraliod i have been urinating very frequently and have very loose stool and slight head aches when i stand up too quickly. these are all VERY uncommon for me, and i have no past medical health issues. i have not changed anything in my life except for taking viraloid. i eat 5 meals a day, over 3000kcals

i have a feeling this stuff is sh*tty Sh*t Sh*t, be nice the the adds posted THOSE side effects

JAA1282
07-29-2006, 12:21 PM
Vyotech when are u getting the maker of 17-hd on hear to answer questions

Sockomalo
08-03-2006, 09:49 AM
This is just a suggestion, but I am wondering if you have considered supplying a bottle of 17HD or a bottle of Viraloid to some of the better known bb.com forum users for testing? Testers should be over the age of 35/40 and be willing to provide before/after pix and measurments. If someone is willing to post before/after bloodwork, even better.

It appears this is the ONLY way, outside of paying for labaratory/clinical testing, Vyotech will make believers out of some of us.

No hard feelings, just my .02/cents

almost 3 months now... vyotech rep never came back, did he ever choose testers for his products?

HalleluYAH
08-03-2006, 10:35 AM
almost 3 months now... vyotech rep never came back, did he ever choose testers for his products?
He called for Nitrobolic Extreme testers, but as far as I know, not for the 17HD and Viraloid products.

JAA1282
08-05-2006, 12:39 AM
why would u buy vyo-tech 17-hd $44.79 30 caps when you can get IDS 17-Hydroxy-Mesterone $38.95 60 caps
There the exact same thing every ingredient but sumhow vyotech's costs more and you get 30 less caps

bocco
08-10-2006, 02:29 PM
It looks like the Vyotech has been gone since May. I'm into my secind week with 17-HD and gotta say I'm getting a big fat nothing out of it. No muscle gain. No fat loss and no workout buzz. I'm taking it in the morning about an hour before my workout. Nothin.

Gary

Blap Blaow
08-10-2006, 02:37 PM
It looks like the Vyotech has been gone since May.
He was online (and posted) today.

user25891
08-11-2006, 07:33 AM
Ive never used your supps, but can you tell me why Shawn Ray is such an arrogant prick?
















































Im kidding by the way. Kind of.

Vyotech Rep
08-11-2006, 10:26 AM
He called for Nitrobolic Extreme testers, but as far as I know, not for the 17HD and Viraloid products.

We plan on doing some more testing/logs with some of our other products including 17-HD and Viraloid. I wanted to wait for the Nitrobolic Extreme logs to get up and running before asking for more testers. Plus I don't want to flood the board with so many Vyotech logs. I'm thinking maybe a week or so is when we'll post an app for more testers.

HalleluYAH
08-11-2006, 10:54 AM
We plan on doing some more testing/logs with some of our other products including 17-HD and Viraloid. I wanted to wait for the Nitrobolic Extreme logs to get up and running before asking for more testers. Plus I don't want to flood the board with so many Vyotech logs. I'm thinking maybe a week or so is when we'll post an app for more testers.
;)

speed01rcr
08-14-2006, 11:17 PM
I get the same if not more of a boost from creatine than nitrobolic extreme,. o , wait, nitrobolic extreme is loaded with creatine., doh

speed01rcr
08-14-2006, 11:19 PM
just face it. Nothing will ever take the place of steriods, or do what it does. All you people out there that tried every suppliment in the world know what I'm talking about.

Hizzie
08-15-2006, 08:07 AM
Could you please post the specific ingredient dosages. "Nitrobolic Proprietary Blend 17.25g" is pretty vague.

speed01rcr
08-16-2006, 09:19 PM
It looks like the Alpha Keto Gluterate is the main ingredient in NO2, Creatine ethyl ester, some amino acids, and 1,3,7-Trimethyl-Xanthine (caffeine) make up the "intensity" they claim you will get...all for $63 at GNC.

Wake up, 2 ea cups of coffee, an orange, and some cheap creatine pills at rite aid for next to nothing and you'll come way out ahead. I tell ya, anything to make a buck off ya.

Brennylee
08-29-2006, 09:50 PM
Michael, I have a question with regards to sales/distribution... could you please clear some space in your PM Box. Thank you. Happy Selling - Brenny

Ian3379
09-07-2006, 06:12 AM
Hi, would like to know what's the difference between AB-Solution Plus and Body Sculpture Lotion??

Latvians
09-26-2006, 10:07 AM
Vyotech V.P.,

Is there any support or studies that 17HD does actually increase free test levels. I just started it yesterday and must say that I was extremely focused and got every good energy from the product, without a doubt it was not a placebo effect. But thats not really what I bought it for. Please let give me some support for 17HD, If I dont hear back I'll just return it to GNC.