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kethnaab
04-11-2006, 03:31 PM
Went to the nerve specialist. He stuck some electrical thingees on me and poked me with needles and listened to the nerve conduction, and apparently I have some phacked up **** going on in my triceps and pectoral nerves.

Something about brachial plexus injury. Yet I didn't "hurt myself".

So now I'm stuck not working my pecs or triceps hard for "awhile"

His words:

"He cannot do upper body pushing exercises to muscle failure. Condition will likely slowly improve over the next 12-18 months."

He said that if I try to work my triceps or pecs hard, it will slow regeneration of the nerves in the area. He also said that the nerves that are damage are approximately 2 foot long, and that nerves regenerate about 1" per month.

So I'm looking at a good 2 years before I am 100% again.

Christ almighty, this sucks.

So now I have to find some exercises to "work my triceps and pecs" without working them too hard.

what a big fat bowl of f*ck this is. :(

maxiw
04-11-2006, 03:37 PM
Is that supposed to be typical of lifters who go to failure?

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 03:38 PM
I haven't done failure training in years.

This is probably more a result of my green-suit time than my iron time. *shrugs*

maxiw
04-11-2006, 03:39 PM
Oh, what's green suit time?

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 03:41 PM
soldiering. I'm an active duty army dude. Spent the last 14 years wearing a rucksack and body armor. Tends to break down the body a bit more quickly than desk time.

Of course, now, after the last 3 years, I finally get some desk time. Shame I can't put it to maximal use. :(

orunderscores
04-11-2006, 03:53 PM
man that sucks, i hope you get better soon. maybe you should get a second opinion from another doctor.

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 03:57 PM
I will be. I have an appointment with a Sports Medicine/Orthopedic specialist coming up here, but the MRI and nerve conduction studies are pretty cut'n'dry. Thx for the support, I hope I get better faster.

W8isGR8
04-11-2006, 04:23 PM
I saw the title of this thread earlier, but I just now realized who started it. I'm sorry to hear about that, that's a bummer. At least now you can finally pursue that yoga/pilates dream you've always had.:)

Maybe you could just do an abbreviated routine form now on for chest/triceps. Is it just for pushing movements?

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 04:26 PM
yeah, for the most part, I can still row kinda heavy. I can't do chinups or pullups too much anymore. I have to use real light weight pulldowns in place. *scowls with disdain* rows don't seem to be too bothered, but I can't really accelerate the bar with maximal weight because I have to do kinda "even motion" type exercises as I won't pull evenly.

Elbows are bugging the **** out of me too, probably from the massive strength imbalance I have now in that arm. Ugh. This whole situation sucks the ass end of a womprat. :(

W8isGR8
04-11-2006, 04:28 PM
yeah, for the most part, I can still row kinda heavy. I can't do chinups or pullups too much anymore. I have to use real light weight pulldowns in place. *scowls with disdain* rows don't seem to be too bothered, but I can't really accelerate the bar with maximal weight because I have to do kinda "even motion" type exercises as I won't pull evenly.

Elbows are bugging the **** out of me too, probably from the massive strength imbalance I have now in that arm. Ugh. This whole situation sucks the ass end of a womprat. :(
Are iso's out of the question? Have you looked into Atrainer shrugs for lats? That will help take the arms out of the equation.

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 04:29 PM
I haven't seen Atrainer shrugs. I can do Hammer Iso-lateral rows, I can do lightweight pulldowns, and I can do Yates rows, oddly enough.

Iso's are going to be an absolute must for chest and delts though. UGH!!!!

mike_d
04-11-2006, 04:30 PM
Damn, sorry to hear that :(

For chest you can always do flies and stuff but no pressing....that sucks. I hurt my shoulder a while ago and it was a few months before I could really press anything so I kinda relate to what you're saying....2 years is a long time though man, sorry again. I hate those injuries that will heal in "a while".

slippy
04-11-2006, 04:32 PM
Iso's are going to be an absolute must for chest and delts though.

You may want to consult with Wayne; he can help you a lot on this. Hey why are you pointing that gun at me . . . ;)

W8isGR8
04-11-2006, 04:35 PM
I haven't seen Atrainer shrugs. I can do Hammer Iso-lateral rows, I can do lightweight pulldowns, and I can do Yates rows, oddly enough.

Iso's are going to be an absolute must for chest and delts though. UGH!!!!
Well, I'm a pussy and I can do Lat shrugs with 250+

You just hook a pair of ab straps to the pull-down machine and slide your arms in up to the armpits. Then you just shrug your shoulders downwards. Pretty simple.

MarlboroMan
04-11-2006, 04:37 PM
Went to the nerve specialist. He stuck some electrical thingees on me and poked me with needles and listened to the nerve conduction, and apparently I have some phacked up **** going on in my triceps and pectoral nerves.

Something about brachial plexus injury. Yet I didn't "hurt myself".

So now I'm stuck not working my pecs or triceps hard for "awhile"

His words:

"He cannot do upper body pushing exercises to muscle failure. Condition will likely slowly improve over the next 12-18 months."

He said that if I try to work my triceps or pecs hard, it will slow regeneration of the nerves in the area. He also said that the nerves that are damage are approximately 2 foot long, and that nerves regenerate about 1" per month.

So I'm looking at a good 2 years before I am 100% again.

Christ almighty, this sucks.

So now I have to find some exercises to "work my triceps and pecs" without working them too hard.

what a big fat bowl of f*ck this is. :(

if you didnt hurt yourself, what prompted you to get this checked out ?

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 04:41 PM
if you didnt hurt yourself, what prompted you to get this checked out ?

I woke up one morning and, during PT, found out that I could not control the right side of my body during the downward motion of the first warmup pushup I tried to do

I later went to the weight room and tested the difference in strength in 1-arm pressdowns and a pec dec "thing"

I ended up doing 100 x 10 reps pretty easily with my left hand on some sillyass cable apparatus, but I only got 30 lbs for 6 reps before my irght arm stopped working

notice I didn't say that I reached muscle failure. My right arm simply stopped working.

the thing is that even if I find a "good" way to make isolations work for my pecs, I STILL have to go "easy" on them.

ugh. looks like I'll be doing cable laterals 3x per week now though :eyeroll:

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 04:43 PM
You may want to consult with Wayne; he can help you a lot on this. Hey why are you pointing that gun at me . . . ;)

oh....curse your genitals...that is LOW!!!

CoQ10
04-11-2006, 04:48 PM
Dammit, I am so sorry to hear that! You are one of the best contributors to this board and it's such a shame that you'll be out of commission for a while :(.

Take care of yourself!

-C10

Helis
04-11-2006, 04:54 PM
Man, that's a tough one. Best of luck in your recovery.

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 04:57 PM
Dammit, I am so sorry to hear that! You are one of the best contributors to this board and it's such a shame that you'll be out of commission for a while :(.

Take care of yourself!

-C10

dude, I'm injured, I ain't dead! "Out of commission" my ass! If a soldier doesn't know how to adapt, he will die.

If I don't know how to adapt, I'll get fat and ugly. I'm already halfway there (UUUUGLY!!!) so I need to stay lean and green and mean and...whatever.

I just have to figure out how the hell to incorporate a bunch of isolation bull**** into my workout and, basically, redefine what has been my training philosophy for the last 20 years

I started off, 20 years ago, with the idea that I wanted to be the best squatter in the history of history. I always had strong legs and a moderate upper body, so I always was stronger (usually significantly so) on leg exercises than "the other boys". As a result, powerlifter dudes "adopted me" early on, and I always stuck with the basics.

Along the way, I got pretty big, despite all the ridiculous cardio I had to do to stay lean and do well on Army PT tests. So hence my attitude regarding isolations.

Now I have to pretty much pretend like everything I know was a lie and I have to forget it all and embrace something totally new. It's like I just found out about the Matrix or some ****.

oy vey. my head hurts just thinking about it.

d2r2005
04-11-2006, 05:01 PM
good luck with recovery. it sucks to see/hear of anyone who gets an injury. godspeed.

ecto-1
04-11-2006, 05:08 PM
Your attitute is inspiring -- and I'm sure you'll be able to adapt your routine to maintain size. I wish you all the best in your recovery and I hope that it happens more quickly than you've been told. I'm sure you'll learn a lot about patience, and that alone is probably a valuable lesson for us all. Good luck.

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 05:24 PM
**** patience. ;)

but thanks for the support guys. ugh.

Carmen0857
04-11-2006, 05:28 PM
That sucks man, don't push it, never damage is nothing to F with, you can always regain what you loose after your better. Muscle memory is a beautiful thing, good luck.

J.L.C.
04-11-2006, 05:32 PM
Good thing "isolations cause more hypertrophy in the targeted muscle"


:D

Sorry to hear that man, all the pressure the rucksack puts on your shoulders and neck HAS to be hard on the plexus.

Make the docs eat their words by recovering in a quarter of the time!!

JOHN GARGANI
04-11-2006, 05:34 PM
Keth: this does really suck! you are too good a man to have to endure this: however, buddy, I will tell you, that I had a total layoff in the middle of my life due to injuries, and as hard as it was psychologically, I learned from it and have been able to go at it full bore in the last 15 years......


I feel your pain, I have been there....the dreaded layoff word...

and YOU, of all people, relegated to: ISOLATION!!!! what a dirty word for you! AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....

just be careful...really.....don't sweat the time off...you still have a long life ahead of you soldier!

kethnaab
04-11-2006, 06:34 PM
and YOU, of all people, relegated to: ISOLATION!!!! what a dirty word for you! AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....


*laughs* no **** man. Talk about painfully bitter irony. *sigh*

ah well. I'll get over it and end up larger and ripped. NO DAMNED CLUE HOW I'm going to manage this one though.

The good is that I can still do moderate weight deadlifts and rows, and I can still kinda putz around with hammer strength stuff. so yeah. *shrugs*

DuracellBunny
04-12-2006, 02:27 AM
That's a kick in the n*ts :(

Only bit of advice I have to offer is that during the time off, get the regeneration checked even more often than the docs suggest. The estimates that they use for recovery are based on the "average Joe" and the iron worshipers amongst us tend to recover at different speeds to the mere mortals.

Find out from the docs what vitamins/minerals that the body uses in nerve regeneration as well and increase your levels of those. The one thing that the iron game has taught us is that if the body has more of what it needs in order to heal/recover, it will do so faster. The doc may well say it's a waste of time, but a lot of them say us eating so much protein is a waste of time too. You have nothing to lose by doing it :)

MantisShrimp
04-12-2006, 03:09 AM
That sucks man. Chances are you already know how much it sucks, so I'll say this. Lemons to lemonade. It is now time for you to become the state squatting champion.

DiamondDelts
04-12-2006, 04:38 AM
Sorry to hear about this Keth. Cause I can tell from your pic that you take your pressing very serious. Hopefully everything will work out in the end. I can sympathize though. I am still recovering from bell's palsy where my half of my face went paralyzed overnight. And the doctor told me the same story about the time needed for the nerves to heal. Scary ****. I would'nt even put that on my worst enemy.

Uriel_da_man
04-12-2006, 04:46 AM
Not to sound negative but from my personal experience training with the pinkies because of an injury is a waste of time. You won't grow the muscle at all, probably not even maintain it. It sucks but if you want to do something useful those two years and not just waste sweat and money on a gym membership might I suggest you take up some other sport during that time? At least you can stay fit...

kethnaab
04-12-2006, 05:12 AM
That sucks man. Chances are you already know how much it sucks, so I'll say this. Lemons to lemonade. It is now time for you to become the state squatting champion.

*sighs* no squats either. Can't load heavy weight on my shoulders. :(

I can do some moderate deadlifts though. Guess it's time to redefine "moderate" to include 600 lbs. :P


I am still recovering from bell's palsy where my half of my face went paralyzed overnight.

my wife had that with our 2nd child. Poor woman. She got her strength and "normalcy" back pretty quickly.


It sucks but if you want to do something useful those two years and not just waste sweat and money on a gym membership might I suggest you take up some other sport during that time? At least you can stay fit...

I just can't press heavy. I can do other stuff, and my pinkies are pretty strong. ;)

Besides, gym membership is free. One of the perks of working for the government. :)

MantisShrimp
04-12-2006, 05:54 AM
You should see if you can mash the CoC #3 or #4 gripper within 18 months
/me currently closes #1 with each hand and can get #2 to pretty close with the right

kethnaab
04-12-2006, 06:18 AM
hurm...grip strength....i have small hands but surprising grip strength.
that might be a worthwhile endeavor

i gotta run through a list of stuff i can do and totally re-prioritize

I figure since super low intensity is required for my pec and triceps, i'm going to bench and do extensions with light weight, every other day. that seems like a must.

but I'm not sure what I can focus on otherwise.

hurm....

not sure how to work this at all...

Su: (low lat emphasis) Yates rows, light close-grip pulldowns, Hammer Iso-rows
M: foo-foo **** for chest and triceps, delt laterals, leg presses (sigh)
Tu: (upper lat/teres emphasis) Pendlays, light BTN wide-grip pulldowns, DB face rows
W: foo-foo **** for chest and triceps, delt laterals
Th: deadlifts, light pulldowns, Hammer Iso-rows, power shrugs
F: foo-foo **** for chest and triceps, delt laterals, leg presses

*shrug*

Watch Me!
04-12-2006, 07:53 AM
Wow - good luck/speedy recovery!

Rane14
04-12-2006, 08:16 AM
hey keth, did your elbows hurt like tendinitos hurting? I am gonna check to see how much stronger my right side is then my left. peace

W8isGR8
04-12-2006, 08:34 AM
Get a hip squat belt. That way you can load up the weight but not on your back.

Also, check out ATrainer shrugs and ATrainer flyes. You only need 20-25 lbs for those little bitches to wreck your pecs.

ShreddedShruggin
04-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Get a hip squat belt. That way you can load up the weight but not on your back.



Yeah, that's a great idea. I believe it was Magnus Samuelsson who trained with it when he tore his bicep (that can happen when you curl 400 pounds)

-Shruggin

Dominik
04-12-2006, 08:55 AM
Get a hip squat belt. That way you can load up the weight but not on your back.Good advice. Here's a link to it just in case it doesn't come up in Google. Super Squats Hip Belt™ (http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1220)

I've got their dip belt which is made from similar material and can vouch for the quality. The squat belt is supposedly good for a ridiculous 3,500lbs.

spirit3530
04-12-2006, 01:34 PM
yeah Kethnaab I really learn alot from your posts and i hope that you lick this **** really quick. Good luck.


Hooyah big brotha.

buckest
04-12-2006, 02:06 PM
Went to the nerve specialist. He stuck some electrical thingees on me and poked me with needles and listened to the nerve conduction, and apparently I have some phacked up **** going on in my triceps and pectoral nerves.

Something about brachial plexus injury. Yet I didn't "hurt myself".

So now I'm stuck not working my pecs or triceps hard for "awhile"

His words:

"He cannot do upper body pushing exercises to muscle failure. Condition will likely slowly improve over the next 12-18 months."

He said that if I try to work my triceps or pecs hard, it will slow regeneration of the nerves in the area. He also said that the nerves that are damage are approximately 2 foot long, and that nerves regenerate about 1" per month.

So I'm looking at a good 2 years before I am 100% again.

Christ almighty, this sucks.

So now I have to find some exercises to "work my triceps and pecs" without working them too hard.

what a big fat bowl of f*ck this is. :(

If this is the case, and your injury is what that doc says it is, I would listen to the advice you get. Long term damage is not worth it. Not being able to workout sucks, but your long term health is more imortant.
Good luck with the recovery bro.

EctoHooligan
04-12-2006, 02:22 PM
My condolences. I am sure, though, that you will learn an incredible amount of new things as you adapt to the changed circumstances of your body. Best to you.

NHBBareKnuckler
04-12-2006, 03:58 PM
Man thatís the pits Bro, I feel your pain, believe me. I am coming off several muscle tears in my lower legs. Try working out never being able to stand with a weight in your hand for 2 months haha.

I was rolling dumbbells to my bench, sitting and then trying to reach down for them. SUCKED!!! Back workouts were the total pits.

Do yourself a big favor and give yourself a week or more rest. 2 weeks would be better Iím sure. You have all the time in the world to gain back whatever you lose in those 2 weeks. IT WILL ALL COME BACK!!!

Better off resting now because you need to then not be able to function correctly because you have to, you know?

Itís a struggle physically and mentally. But itís one you have to face, and it isnít easy.

Just do the right thing for yourself hereÖ

Take it easy for a big man

Cheers!!!

ATrainer
04-17-2006, 06:31 PM
I can relate to all this. My Shoulders are wrecked. My flys came from tearing my shoulder and needing an alternative to pressing. My shrugs came from another tear that made any traction on my shoulder impossible. I had to find alternatives. When I found them, I also found faster and better results than the exercises I searched to replace. I've never looked back, and I've never suffered from lack of development. To the contrary, I found better ways.

Khoostar
04-17-2006, 07:54 PM
hope you get better soon mate, that sucks!

Horseradish
04-17-2006, 08:01 PM
Went to the nerve specialist. He stuck some electrical thingees on me and poked me with needles and listened to the nerve conduction, and apparently I have some phacked up **** going on in my triceps and pectoral nerves.

Something about brachial plexus injury. Yet I didn't "hurt myself".

So now I'm stuck not working my pecs or triceps hard for "awhile"

His words:

"He cannot do upper body pushing exercises to muscle failure. Condition will likely slowly improve over the next 12-18 months."

He said that if I try to work my triceps or pecs hard, it will slow regeneration of the nerves in the area. He also said that the nerves that are damage are approximately 2 foot long, and that nerves regenerate about 1" per month.

So I'm looking at a good 2 years before I am 100% again.

Christ almighty, this sucks.

So now I have to find some exercises to "work my triceps and pecs" without working them too hard.

what a big fat bowl of f*ck this is. :(

You'll be fine. I injured my long thoracic nerve last February while I was sleeping and ended up with paralysis of my serratus anterior. The doctors poked me with needles (nerve conduction velocity test and electromyography) and confirmed what I already knew. I had a winged scapula and I couldn't lift my right arm above 90 degrees. It didn't get any better until I went to a chiropractor in October, at which point it began recovering steadily. Now I'm back at 100% again, believe it or not.

I find it a little odd that the doctor didn't want you to train to failure. I think that one of the best things I did is continue to try to work my serratus anterior even though it was paralyzed and I was very frustrated and depressed.

And I didn't waste my time with physical therapy.

Just try to keep up a good attitude and believe that you can recover. My nerve damage healed very nicely in about 12 months, and I'm sure yours will probably even heal faster. Best of luck to you man.

weboboy
02-26-2011, 10:35 PM
Hey,

I have exactly the same thing you had. It has been 7 months since it started with me and it is still the same.

I have been to so many doctors and one says it'll take 1 year, another 2 years, and another said never. I was told to do physical therapy, which hasn't done a thing. Do you recommend going to a chiropractor?

I was told I couldn't lift weights, only cardio, so I am frustrated and depressed.

By the way. Do you live in DC? I live over in Arlington and WAS working out at Xsport fitness on King Street.

Could you please give me some advice, because these doctors are driving me crazy.

Thanks,
Jason



You'll be fine. I injured my long thoracic nerve last February while I was sleeping and ended up with paralysis of my serratus anterior. The doctors poked me with needles (nerve conduction velocity test and electromyography) and confirmed what I already knew. I had a winged scapula and I couldn't lift my right arm above 90 degrees. It didn't get any better until I went to a chiropractor in October, at which point it began recovering steadily. Now I'm back at 100% again, believe it or not.

I find it a little odd that the doctor didn't want you to train to failure. I think that one of the best things I did is continue to try to work my serratus anterior even though it was paralyzed and I was very frustrated and depressed.

And I didn't waste my time with physical therapy.

Just try to keep up a good attitude and believe that you can recover. My nerve damage healed very nicely in about 12 months, and I'm sure yours will probably even heal faster. Best of luck to you man.

linkin90
02-27-2011, 10:03 AM
Hey,

I have exactly the same thing you had. It has been 7 months since it started with me and it is still the same.

I have been to so many doctors and one says it'll take 1 year, another 2 years, and another said never. I was told to do physical therapy, which hasn't done a thing. Do you recommend going to a chiropractor?

I was told I couldn't lift weights, only cardio, so I am frustrated and depressed.

By the way. Do you live in DC? I live over in Arlington and WAS working out at Xsport fitness on King Street.

Could you please give me some advice, because these doctors are driving me crazy.

Thanks,
Jason

Strong 5 year bump lol but anyways i had this problem a year ago and i fully recovered from it about a month ago. It was really annoying i always felt the scapular click and get all outta whack but the actual pain went away reletivley fast for me. You said you had it for 7 months? Have you been resting it that whole time? What i did was rest it completely until the pain was gone and then i started to do rehabilitation excersises for the scapular (for example deep pushups, light weight high rep cable rows, face pulls with a band). once i started these the problem just seemed to vanish within a couple weeks. they strengthen your serratus anterior and pull back your scapular into position.

alphaproject
02-28-2011, 12:55 AM
Yep...that sucks man...I'm right there with you... I have some problems too.

I had an MRI and my doc told me I have Tendonosis on my shoulders.

After I looked this up....I find out it's about the worst thing you can get as it will never get better. In fact...it's degenerative. I have to watch people on the biggest loser working out harder than I can....LOL...now that's f*cked. If I worked out like that I'd prolly not be able to raise my arm the next 2 months.

Now...my wrists are starting to act up....not sure why...maybe using a mouse/keyboard has added up over time...even typing hurts. I think I may have carpal tunnel....but I have not told my doctor about it because it's just too depressing to think about. I just have shooting pains in my hands when I twist or hold things at wrong angles. It feels like I would drop whatever I was doing because the pain is so sharp.

I worked out for 2 years straight to gain only 8 pounds....now that's long gone and no amount of work can fix the losses because I won't heal. I've given up working out for months before....then I started back up....and about 2 months in....same sort of pain starts up. You never know how bad it can get until it's all gone....If only I had my 20's to do all over again... I think I'd really push my limits more.

Edd1989
12-08-2018, 02:35 PM
Hey buddy,
Blast from the past but just stumbled across this and wondering if you ever recovered from the nerve damage? Hope so!
Edd

F1eld
12-15-2018, 06:05 AM
Some other less obvious tools that could also help recovery:

-PEMF therapy (used by Olympic athletes)
-Red light therapy (on your balls to increase testosterone which helps everything)
-reducing EMF while you sleep (better sleep patterns= better recovery)
-EMS (to stimulate effected muscles)