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View Full Version : S.A.N. Vault :: Cell Volumizing Phenomenon :: Information/FAQ



cakedonkey
04-10-2006, 01:53 PM
S.A.N. Vault :: Cell Volumizing Phenomenon

Product Information
<img src="http://fredvaughn.org/san/vault-facts.jpg" alt="S.A.N. Vault">

Vault in the Cyberstore
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/vault.html


Formula rationale
Right down to the last active, Vault was formulated to be the best cell volumizer on the market. Take a look at this in-depth write-up complete with scientific references:

http://pumpedmag.com/articles/fall05/08text.htm

Vault Reviews

[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=700849&highlight=vault) | by Ludwig
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=557638&highlight=vault) | by Big_Nasty
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=547219&highlight=vault) | by Jaredfree
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=532504&highlight=vault) | by uhockey
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=527722&highlight=vault) | by PROVERBS413
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=524668&highlight=vault) | by Sixpack
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=529067&highlight=vault) | by Lonny
[Read Review] (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=524348&highlight=vault) | by Lok7y


Vault Freqently Asked Questions
Q: What exactly is Vault? If I already regularly use creatine, would it benefit me? It most definitely would. Creatine, in and of itself, is a remarkable cell volumizer and ergogenic agent as a result. However, Vault is far more than "just a creatine product". It's a complete cell volumizing and ergogenic-enhancing masterpiece. It contains nitric-oxide-pre-cursors, osomolytes (to draw even more water into your muscle cells), nootropics (jack up the ever important mind-muscle connection), and of course, several different forms of a creatine for ultimate bio-availability: there's no such thing as a "non-responder" to this product!

Q: Ergogenic? What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, (adj.) increasing capacity for bodily or mental labor especially by eliminating fatigue symptoms. And that's exactly what Vault does, though a number of different novel pathways. You've got the creatine in there, for obvious reasons (replenish the muscle system's main energy source, ATP, at a faster rate). Citrulline malate is another key player as it reduces lactic acid build-up, supports energy production, and works together with the other actives (such as leucine) in a synergistic manner to support energy production and endurance. Moving on, the NO/osomolytes work synergisticly with the creatine to enhance blood flow, intracellar water capacity, resulting in a much higher rate of skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Finally, the neruo blend, which is caffeine-free by design, offers a great boost in motivation for preparing to attack the weight pre-workout. The importance of the mind-muscle connection should be rather well known by now!

Q: How much caffeine? I'm glad you asked. 0mg. 0%. Nada. None. Zip. Ziltch. Zero. As aforementioned, this is by design. You got some products out there throwing, 200, 300, even 400mg of caffeine in the product. What does this result in? Well, if you wanted to workout late at night, you'd never get to sleep. If you are overly sensitive to stimulants; or, caffeine in particular, you'd be over-stimulated and it would result in an counter-productive workout. No good. S.A.N. has done their homework, and doesn't need caffeine placebo on this one. Just straight-up cutting edge!

Q: Could I stack it with another creatine/NO product? You, certainly, could. However, Vault is designed as an "all-in-one" answer to the "ultimate pre-workout" question. Feel free to stack it with another product as you see fit, however, we recommend running Vault alone and seeing how much benefit it truly bestows. There simply isn't a need to stack it with anything else. It's got it all.

Q: How often should I take Vault?
Directions: Mix one level scoop in 16 oz of water, juice, or your favorite beverage twice daily, preferably 8 hours apart. Use Vault everyday, including non workout days. For maximum results consume 1 serving approx 30 minutes prior to training and another serving approx 30 minutes prior to a meal.

Note, that if money is truly an issue, you could use some sort of bulk creatine product on your off-days, though I would definitely encourage directed Vault usage on workout-days. To see the most benefit, however, it should be taken every single day.

Q: Should I cycle it? As with any NO-generating product, yes. After you're done with a cycle, take around 1-2 weeks off, continuing a regular antioxidant protocol (e.g., green tea [500mg EGCG/day]) in order to destroy excess free radicals generated by the product.

Q: How is the bloating on Vault? As a result of using some of the most efficent forms of creatine on the market, bloating is very minimal as creatine cell penetration is near 100%. User-feedback has indicated this to be true.

G.W. Hayduke
04-10-2006, 01:59 PM
I didn't know you worked for SAN. Is this a new thing? You gonna hook me up with some Full Impact Bolt? :p

naturalguy
04-10-2006, 02:13 PM
Vault looks like a good product and probably is but their advertising claims are as bad if not worse than MT.

"Bionic" strength gains
"Colosal" muscle gains

G.W. Hayduke
04-10-2006, 02:16 PM
Could someone please give me the rationale behind glycocyamine and guanidinopropionic acid. These two ingredients are the only thing keeping me away from trying Vault.

And the phytic acid is a strange addition (assuming it is what I think it is). What's the story behind that?

sonick
04-10-2006, 02:18 PM
Good idea making this thread. And I find that being caffeine and stimulant free was a very wise choice. A lot of pre-workout creatine mixes make people feel sick or jittery as hell during their workout, restless at night, and have an unwanted diuretic effect. This is one reason I often pick Vault.

cakedonkey
04-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Thanks, Aeternitatis... it happened just a few days ago actually. I'm pretty proud of it.

Regarding your question, see (from the formula rationale write-up):



Glycocyamine (GAA) and Guanidinopropionic Acid (GPA) mimic the actions of insulin in that they lower blood glucose in animal studies (21). This appears to be the result of increased expression of GLUT-4, a major glucose transporter (22). GAA is also converted in the liver into creatine, adding to plasma creatine levels. Because of the insulinomimetic effect of glycocyamine and GPA, taking these along with creatine is superior to simply taking more creatine.


It has been claimed that glycocyamine and GPA downregulate the creatine transporter and thus actually counter the effects of creatine. Research shows however that this effect occurs only at unrealisticaly high levels of glycocyamine and GPA, levels approaching 1% of bodyweight (2 lbs in a 200 lb individual).


Phytic Acid has been considered as an anti-nutritional component in cereals, seeds and beans. Research has traditionally focused on its structure that gives it the ability to bind minerals, proteins and starch, and the resulting lower absorption of these elements. However, recent research has shown that phytic acid has many health promoting effects. Phytic acid has antioxidant, anticarcinogenic, hypocholesterolemic and hypolipidemic effects (29). In animal studies phytic acid showed a protective action in carcinogenesis. This action could be explained by its mineral chelating potential. Phytic acid lowers blood glucose response by reducing the rate of starch digestion and slowing the gastric emptying. Some industry experts believe that Phytic acid elevates leptin even though we could not locate anything to support these claims. Phytic acid releases inositol that during digestion. Although inositol is not an essential nutrient it is proposed to reduce depressions even though this is not substandiated in the medical literature.

21. Smith, J.W. et al. The effects of supplementing swine diets with betaine and (or) choline on growth and carcass characteristics. J.Anim.Sci. 1995 73 (supp 1)

22. Ren JM, Semenkovich CF, Holloszy JO. Adaptation of muscle to creatine depletion: effect on GLUT-4 glucose transporter expression. Am J Physiol. 1993 Jan;264(1 Pt 1):C146-50.

29. Ivana Vucenik and AbulKalam M. Shamsuddin. Cancer Inhibition by Inositol Hexaphosphate (IP6) and Inositol: From Laboratory to Clinic. J. Nutr. 133:3778S-3784S, November 2003

G.W. Hayduke
04-10-2006, 07:22 PM
Very interesting info on the phytic acid and that was exactly what I was hoping you'd address. You wouldn't happen to have any idea of what the "upper limit" of phytic acid/phytate intake should be? That's something I'd really like to know.

It has always been a kind of a paradox because it has health promoting effects but also limits the absorption of necessary nutrients.

cakedonkey
04-10-2006, 07:44 PM
No problem Aeternitatis.

That's a really great question. I would say the amount in Vault is not enough to as to exert a negative effect. Which is to say, I think any sort of negative effect is heavily outweighed by the benefits (the research by Ivana Vucenik and AbulKalam M. Shamsuddin seemed to turn out very well).


Perhaps Lonny, et. al. could chime in with further info.

daveburton
04-10-2006, 11:20 PM
Very interesting info on the phytic acid and that was exactly what I was hoping you'd address. You wouldn't happen to have any idea of what the "upper limit" of phytic acid/phytate intake should be? That's something I'd really like to know.

It has always been a kind of a paradox because it has health promoting effects but also limits the absorption of necessary nutrients.

Check out this link:

http://www.phytin.com/

It should answer most of the questions you have. I venture out to say that the upper limit is in the neighborhood of around 3 grams per day

Lonny
04-11-2006, 06:13 AM
Very interesting info on the phytic acid and that was exactly what I was hoping you'd address. You wouldn't happen to have any idea of what the "upper limit" of phytic acid/phytate intake should be? That's something I'd really like to know.

It has always been a kind of a paradox because it has health promoting effects but also limits the absorption of necessary nutrients.


As dave said, around 3 grams, and as the website says, and increase in Calcium containing products is a good idea. It shouldn't be an issue with most bodybuilders as they already consumer large amounts of calcium.

cakedonkey
04-11-2006, 10:58 PM
Very nice link there, Dave. It's just incredible how much benefit it truly provides... I know the guys at Avant heavily believe in IP6.

Cobra008
04-11-2006, 11:04 PM
is this product similar to "GlycerGrow" or completely different...?

pu12en12g
04-11-2006, 11:05 PM
is this product similar to "GlycerGrow" or completely different...?

Completely different :)

cakedonkey
04-11-2006, 11:06 PM
is this product similar to "GlycerGrow" or completely different...?


It's completely different. While they are both aiming to increase cell volume (hence: "cell volumizers"), they are very different products from an ingredients-standpoint. GlycerGrow is a GMS/Taurine product where Vault, is, well... see above.

Cobra008
04-11-2006, 11:10 PM
would one then benifit from stacking the two, or would that be overkill/unnecessary...?

cakedonkey
04-12-2006, 12:00 AM
Certainly wouldn't hurt. A little more taurine is never bad thing, and, GMS isn't included in the Vault formula, so you may find the results to be somewhat greater. I still stand by my opinion though that running Vault alone first (or any product for that matter) is smartest so you know what to expect from the product and then can modify things as you see fit...

cakedonkey
05-30-2006, 08:24 PM
Bumping this as I've seen a lot of "what do you think of Vault?" threads popping up lately.

dev07
06-09-2006, 02:08 PM
is it necessary to take vault twice on off days, or is it okay to take it twice on workout days and only once on off days?

Lonny
06-09-2006, 10:35 PM
is it necessary to take vault twice on off days, or is it okay to take it twice on workout days and only once on off days?

You could drop it back to once on off days. I've told many people via pm's to do that and noone has written back complaining.

cakedonkey
03-14-2007, 09:41 AM
I'm gonna' have to bump this because there seems to have been a lot of interest in the product as of late. Hopefully this will answer any questions.

Does anyone feel the FAQ needs to be updated? I'm all ears.

aceproceed
03-14-2007, 09:45 AM
I took SAN Vault, it worked quite well. My only concerns with it is that it is quite expensive, and also that the taste is quite horrifying! It tastes nice and sweet as it hits your tongue then as you swallow this aftertaste comes on that just makes you unable to help cringing. Take the bitterest thing you've ever eaten, X10 and then it all goes right on the back section of your tongue where things taste most bitter.

However, I really liked the nootropic formula in it. I would take it in class about 30-45 minutes before I headed to the gym after, and within not too many minutes I felt quite clear and able to concentrate better.

Elliptical Envy
03-14-2007, 09:49 AM
I have some Vault coming soon, so I'll do a review later on.

cakedonkey
03-14-2007, 11:46 AM
I took SAN Vault, it worked quite well. My only concerns with it is that it is quite expensive, and also that the taste is quite horrifying! It tastes nice and sweet as it hits your tongue then as you swallow this aftertaste comes on that just makes you unable to help cringing. Take the bitterest thing you've ever eaten, X10 and then it all goes right on the back section of your tongue where things taste most bitter.

However, I really liked the nootropic formula in it. I would take it in class about 30-45 minutes before I headed to the gym after, and within not too many minutes I felt quite clear and able to concentrate better.


The taste indeed leaves something to be desired. However, if we were to improve the formula it would involve removing certain actives (e.g., some of the amine compounds) and/or lowering the dosages on them. Of course, this would lower the overall effectivness at the formula and at S.A.N. we don't believe in taste coming before performance. Glad you 'sucked it up' and realized the true potential of the product.

And yeah--the NeuroFLOW is some nutty stuff. I've honestly never felt so wired outside of popping something with caffeine. But of course, it's a different sort of 'stimulation' and, quite frankly, I think I like it more.

Please post a review if you have the time. Thanks!

cakedonkey
03-14-2007, 11:49 AM
I have some Vault coming soon, so I'll do a review later on.


Great news, Envy. Did I ever tell you that you're a damn smart guy? This proves it!

All the best.

naturalguy
03-14-2007, 12:12 PM
I have a bottle and have only used a few servings so far. The formula is damn impressive.

As far as the taste, it's not the best but certainly palatable. It drives me nuts when people complain about the taste of some supplements. Honestly I could care less if it tasted like monkey piss if it gets the job done. If something tastes good then it's just a bonus.

Once I have used it more I will write a review.

cakedonkey
03-14-2007, 12:14 PM
I have a bottle and have only used a few servings so far. The formula is damn impressive.

As far as the taste, it's not the best but certainly palatable. It drives me nuts when people complain about the taste of some supplements. Honestly I could care less if it tasted like monkey piss if it gets the job done. If something tastes good then it's just a bonus.

Once I have used it more I will write a review.


Your true veteran colors show here. These 'new-comers' to the game want things to taste good and get them huge & ripped from the first serving. How sad.


As I said in the PM, I await the review.

JCAZ2010
03-15-2007, 12:00 AM
Your true veteran colors show here. These 'new-comers' to the game want things to taste good and get them huge & ripped from the first serving. How sad.


As I said in the PM, I await the review.

You have 1337 rep power :D (strong nerd)

cakedonkey
03-15-2007, 12:21 AM
You have 1337 rep power :D (strong nerd)



Honestly...

The first thing I did when I realized that myself was say aloud, "Holy ****, I'm Elite".

"Yeah."

Elliptical Envy
03-15-2007, 01:32 AM
Great news, Envy. Did I ever tell you that you're a damn smart guy? This proves it!

All the best.

I took my Triple Strength Fish Fats today. :D

Dummkopf
03-21-2007, 06:01 PM
Warning I got very sick after using some of these supplements

cakedonkey
03-21-2007, 06:21 PM
Warning I got very sick after using some of these supplements


Please be more specific?

ee09
03-21-2007, 07:18 PM
Is this a big step up from V-12? I just got back into lifting about a month ago after 2 years off. Before I quit working out, V-12 was the best supplement I had taken. Should I give this a try or stick with the one I knew worked well? If so what sets this apart from something like V-12 (it wasn't even Turbo when I used it last)
Thanks for any advice.

cakedonkey
03-21-2007, 08:09 PM
Is this a big step up from V-12? I just got back into lifting about a month ago after 2 years off. Before I quit working out, V-12 was the best supplement I had taken. Should I give this a try or stick with the one I knew worked well? If so what sets this apart from something like V-12 (it wasn't even Turbo when I used it last)
Thanks for any advice.


It is indeed a step up from V-12. Put simply, it is an entirely different formula with how many changes have gone into it. It contributes to better performance via so many pathways that you'd be hard-pressed to find a supplement that is on-par with it.

Please take a look at the Scientific Rationale for the formula for in-depth information (with references): http://www.pumpedmag.com/articles/fall05/08text.htm.

MSmith19
08-21-2007, 10:23 AM
Better to take Vault 1 scoop everyday, Creatine Mono postworkouts..

OR..

Better to take Vault 2 scoop workout days, Creatine Mono Offdays..

Thanks guys.

cakedonkey
08-21-2007, 03:22 PM
Better to take Vault 1 scoop everyday, Creatine Mono postworkouts..

OR..

Better to take Vault 2 scoop workout days, Creatine Mono Offdays..

Thanks guys.


The latter.

MSmith19
08-21-2007, 04:45 PM
The latter.

What is the reason for double dosing? 8g of creatine seems a bit excessive on the day? Are there some other ingredients that need a higher dosage?

cakedonkey
09-09-2007, 01:25 PM
What is the reason for double dosing? 8g of creatine seems a bit excessive on the day? Are there some other ingredients that need a higher dosage?


Yes, that is exactly it. 8 g/day of creatine is indeed quite a bit, but the product is designed so you can use it either way.

ee09
09-09-2007, 03:51 PM
I would recommend following the instructions. I have tried a lot of different supplements and Vault by far gave me the best results.

wooja978
09-24-2008, 03:32 AM
Hey guys, I'm new to this supplement thing, but I'm considering taking the San Vault. What other supplements would be important to take on top of the San Vault? ATM, I'm not taking any creatine products, I just take a mass gainer product that was recommended to me by the guy at the local gym store. Cheers!

lionelxxl
09-24-2008, 06:03 AM
Hey guys, I'm new to this supplement thing, but I'm considering taking the San Vault. What other supplements would be important to take on top of the San Vault? ATM, I'm not taking any creatine products, I just take a mass gainer product that was recommended to me by the guy at the local gym store. Cheers!

SAN Vault practically covers all your energy/creatine/preworkout/pump needs.

Do you know exactly what else you're looking for? Maybe PWO stuff? Or general health stuff (vitamins/minerals), EFAs and the works?

wooja978
09-24-2008, 11:45 PM
Well, I'm planning to hit the gym hard over the holidays, and I'm willing to pay good money to buy the best supplements for myself. I'm really tiny, weighing in at 143 pounds and only benching 154 pounds and 220 pounds on the squats (10 reps each). I'm hoping to put on some lean mass.

I've been looking through the website and the forums, and it seems that the best seller is not necessarily the best performer, in relation to pricing as well. It's really tricky, as the top sellers are also the top award winners. But after reading the article on Vault, I'm convinced it's the best for me.

I'm not a big fan of supplements at the moment as for the 3 years that I have been taking protein shakes, I haven't seen any real results but I'm still open to trying a few more stuff. I might take a protein and glutamine product on top of the Vault. Which do you recommend? What's the equivalent of a protein and glutamine product to Vault? Are there any more articles on these products like the one on Vault with the scientific references? Cheers.

cxm
09-25-2008, 01:40 AM
Well, I'm planning to hit the gym hard over the holidays, and I'm willing to pay good money to buy the best supplements for myself. I'm really tiny, weighing in at 143 pounds and only benching 154 pounds and 220 pounds on the squats (10 reps each). I'm hoping to put on some lean mass.

I've been looking through the website and the forums, and it seems that the best seller is not necessarily the best performer, in relation to pricing as well. It's really tricky, as the top sellers are also the top award winners. But after reading the article on Vault, I'm convinced it's the best for me.

I'm not a big fan of supplements at the moment as for the 3 years that I have been taking protein shakes, I haven't seen any real results but I'm still open to trying a few more stuff. I might take a protein and glutamine product on top of the Vault. Which do you recommend? What's the equivalent of a protein and glutamine product to Vault? Are there any more articles on these products like the one on Vault with the scientific references? Cheers.

Since your main goal is to increase your lean body mass. I suggest you start with telling me how many calories you consume a day? How old are you?

One of the most important things in order to gain lean body mass is calorie intake, you must consume more than you burn in order to add mass. There is no magic supplement that will replace this. Good supplements can aid in recovery, endurance, strength, speed, etc. but without the fuel to repair the muscle in order for growth you will be wasting your money.

Next comes in training, in my opinion for LBM one would stick with compound exercises for the majority of your training and possibly one or two isolation exercises.
For example, compound exercises
-Deadlifts
-Squats
-Bench press

Isolation
- mostly any machine exercise

An example of a workout routine
Chest
-Flat bench barbell press or flat bench dumbbell press(compound)
-Incline bench barbell press or incline dumbbell press (compound)
-Chest dips (compound)
-Dumbbell fly's (semi-isolation)
-iso chest machine or dumbbell fly's with cables (isolation)

Finally an effective supplement comes in
Vault is a good pre-workout product
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/vault.html

Fierce is another good one and one my favorites as well
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/fierce.html

If you have any more questions feel free to post or shoot a pm. :)

wooja978
09-25-2008, 03:36 AM
Hey thanks for the tip. I'm 21 years old and I have no idea how much calories I take in atm. I was just going through some of the nutrition articles on the site, and I think I'm really lacking in the nutrition department. The calorie calculator says I need to take 6000 calories a day, which I think is a hell lot more than what I'm taking atm. I will start working on a good diet plan, and I think I will need a good whey protein to complement it. I was going through some reviews and it seems that ON 100% is what everyone uses, as it is cheap. But some say that the Ergopharm GF-Pro is better. Seeing as I am only beginning my diet plan, will taking Vault help me to bulk up? Or would it be better to use it after I bulk up? Thanks!

bigla2004
09-25-2008, 07:42 AM
Hey thanks for the tip. I'm 21 years old and I have no idea how much calories I take in atm. I was just going through some of the nutrition articles on the site, and I think I'm really lacking in the nutrition department. The calorie calculator says I need to take 6000 calories a day, which I think is a hell lot more than what I'm taking atm. I will start working on a good diet plan, and I think I will need a good whey protein to complement it. I was going through some reviews and it seems that ON 100% is what everyone uses, as it is cheap. But some say that the Ergopharm GF-Pro is better. Seeing as I am only beginning my diet plan, will taking Vault help me to bulk up? Or would it be better to use it after I bulk up? Thanks!

Your eagnerness to read and do proper research is very impressive. A couple things, one remember that Rome wasn't built overnight, nor will the physique you want. Patienece and consistancy are key players here. As far as creatine (vault) it can be used during your bulk for sure. Protein wise on 100% Whey and Ergopharm GF-pro are both great, but GF-pro is a Whey Protein Isolate which is why the price is different. If your digestive system is friendly to dairy and you have never really had any problems you can probably get away with something like ON 100% Whey or American Whey, both quality products that are cheaper in price. Also this is one of my favorite forums of all time as it pertains to bulking. I suggest you give it a look.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4939663