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View Full Version : why can't i get below 22.5% BF



gwb90
02-28-2008, 02:56 AM
in brief.

my training:
around 15years now but never serious

want to get ripped

i am 5'8" 168lb good proportion 15" arms etc.

measure 22.5%bf

train @ total per body part 12-15 sets at 15reps (only changed fro 8reps in the last 8weeks)
jog 30mins monday
chest on tuesday
jog or skip 20mins wednesday
biceps on thursday
day off friday (still watching diet)
sat train back traps + triceps + ABS

diet (in process of changing) with some help

7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey
10:00 1g L-glut + 1 multi vit
11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana
1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple
4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)
7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg
protein drink after workout.

got p'd off before christmas as i experimented taking animal cuts with nothing to write home about and concluded a waist of time consuming some 20odd tabs per day whilst training hard.

any way enough typing for just now. if you can look over the above and maybe provide some assistance that would be great.

i train hard and just want to see the muscles i am developing. i am unsure if i am taking enough protein to help reduce my body fat.

after christmas i made some changes to my routine from 8 reps to 15 reps and watched my diet a bit and reduced BF from 25 to 22.5% just wont move lower.

cheers for the help
gwb

Giorrgi
02-28-2008, 03:15 AM
How do you track your body composition changes?

Do you measure food exactly? Don't bother doing that all the time but if your diet doesn't change much just measure it all once, so you know exactly how much you are consuming.

Now with the actual advice:

- Add more protein. Currently your are at ~130, you need to up that to 180
- If you don't loose weight it means that you're eating too much to create a sufficient deficit (but you might actually be loosing weight but now seeing it because of poor tracking, but that's questionnable).
*to loose fat you need to increase your deficit: add more cardio OR eat less, OR both.

db2012
02-28-2008, 03:26 AM
in brief.

my training:
around 15years now but never serious

want to get ripped


the 1st thing you said answers your own questions, get serious if you want to get lower b/f% Easier said then done right? This is true, thats why most people aren't in shape, but if you want it bad enough you'll have it.

db2012
02-28-2008, 03:40 AM
in brief.

my training:
around 15years now but never serious

want to get ripped

i am 5'8" 168lb good proportion 15" arms etc.

measure 22.5%bf

train @ total per body part 12-15 sets at 15reps (only changed fro 8reps in the last 8weeks)
jog 30mins monday
chest on tuesday
jog or skip 20mins wednesday
biceps on thursday
day off friday (still watching diet)
sat train back traps + triceps + ABS

diet (in process of changing) with some help

7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey
10:00 1g L-glut + 1 multi vit
11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana
1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple
4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)
7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg
protein drink after workout.

got p'd off before christmas as i experimented taking animal cuts with nothing to write home about and concluded a waist of time consuming some 20odd tabs per day whilst training hard.

any way enough typing for just now. if you can look over the above and maybe provide some assistance that would be great.

i train hard and just want to see the muscles i am developing. i am unsure if i am taking enough protein to help reduce my body fat.

after christmas i made some changes to my routine from 8 reps to 15 reps and watched my diet a bit and reduced BF from 25 to 22.5% just wont move lower.

cheers for the help
gwb

Here are some other conflicts with your goal:

-your only doing 50mins of cardio/week, try 50 minutes per session, 4-5 sessions per week.

"7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey": drop the honey, period, and drop the milk, use h20 and just protein powder in your oat meal, it doesn't taste as good but what does that matter if your goal is to lose fat?

"11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana" this is really bad, almost a 50:50 ratio of yolk/white? drop the single yolk all together, you can get the nutrients from other foods/supps. and 1 egg white is NOT enough protein. 1 whole banana? why do you need that insulin spike especially with a yolk, and why the fatty banana?

"1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple" I'm sorry if I sound repetitive but why Salad cream? Its actually very simple, if its an empty calorie skip it. try your tuna in a salad with light itallian dressing.
Salad dressing = A LOT of fat
Almond = fat
Cranberries = insulin spike
fat + Insulin spike = 22%+ bodyfat

"4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)"
Man you eat way too much sugar, protein bar = fat regardless of brand, there are some low ones, but fat and sugar don't mix remember that. try some whole food w/ no sugar. Stop mixing fat and carbs every meal.

"7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg"
this is better but not perfect, you want little or no carbs your last meal of the night, but 7pm is kind of early IMO for last meal. Pea's are one of the few green veggies on the "no" GI list. try broccoli lettuce, green beans, ect..

Your diet is your weak point from what I can see, you may feel like your eating healthy because your taking a bunch of "healthy foods" and randomly mixing them up, but its almost just as bad as guy who eats with no regards to his diet every day. Fat and carbs do not mix! sugar isn't necessary every meal, or any meal for that matter on a daily basis. You diet needs a lot of work if you want to see any results. Fruit is "healthy" but just because some thing like a banana is good for you doesn't mean it wont make you fat.

Oddball8945
02-28-2008, 03:57 AM
jesus man ^ you want him to just start doing 50 min cardio sessions 5 times a week? Hes 20%BF sh*t i got ripped without any real cardio. I think he just needs to eat less for a long time and he can get to 10-12 no problem.

gwb90
02-28-2008, 03:58 AM
fantastic reply db2012.

exactly what i was looking for.

some of the replies i have had from other has been shocking and very condasending.

cheers mate for taking the time to look over my post.

i will change some stuff and post again in a few weeks may ven start posting some before and after

gwb90

NamesAreHardToPick
02-28-2008, 04:00 AM
I don't agree with the above post on many things, however, I cannot tell from looking at your diet what your macros are. What is your total calories? Carbs/protein/fat ratios? How much sodium a day are you intaking? Before I can help, I need to know those things.

Also you need to be much more active than what you are currently doing. Rather than jump to cut calories which could hurt your metabolism/thyroid, first focus on doing the right thing in exercise. This includes doing AT LEAST three cardio sessions a week in the morning within an hour of waking up (HIIT or LISS are excellent choices). You still need four good workout sessions: a full body workout and then a push, pull, and lower body day. But throughout the day, you need to find light activities that burn calories, not just exercise. Stand and move around rather than sit; take your dog for a walk (literally), things like this.

Last, you say 22% bodyfat, but how are you measuring this? If it's with a BMI calculator, that is going to give you an inaccurate percent anyway.

Cape1
02-28-2008, 04:10 AM
the 1st thing you said answers your own questions, get serious if you want to get lower b/f% Easier said then done right? This is true, thats why most people aren't in shape, but if you want it bad enough you'll have it.

x2. That's the first thing I picked up on too. You have to drive hard to get lean, esspecially if you're even slightly endomorphic, which I'm assuming you are. Casually trying to mosey down to leaness probably will not work.

I'm the same way. I can stay at 25% body fat, carry it pretty well, be very comfortable, stay real strong, and, beleive it or not, remain pretty fit.

For me to get lean, and I'm doing it now, I have to work by damn ass off and diet in a way that is EXTREMELY uncomfortable.

It's all yours for the taking chief!

gwb90
02-28-2008, 04:15 AM
extract for a previous fitday log.

i measured my BF% using a handheld unit inputting my details. but to be honest the bottom line is i am using that only to confirm i am ripped. visually i want to look ripped and that's the goal.

so guys. i need to do a great deal more cardio then?

cheers

gwb90
02-28-2008, 04:16 AM
cape1

any chance you can post up your schedule of diet + excercise?

cheers

NamesAreHardToPick
02-28-2008, 04:31 AM
Your macros aren't so bad; the aim on a cut should be around 50-30-20 (protein, carbs, fat). However, keep most of your carb intake before/after/and the meal after-post workout. The rest of the day, eat carbs ONLY in the form of veggies, not fruits.

Your calories are quite low; I am eating almost five hundred more calories than you and weigh ten pounds less than you and still am losing bodyfat (I measure with old style caliper), which tells me either you're not active enough, you've really slowed down your metabolic rate with that diet, or possible hormone issues. If you've really been eating that way for a long time and haven't lost a pound, I'd first see a doctor to at least ensure everything is okay.

[I only say this becaue a year ago I was in a rut and found out it was due to hormone problems; diet nor exercise will fix that.]

If everythinig is good, awesome. Start focusing on working out/cardio in the morning that way you can take advantage of carbs early and get them out through the rest of the day. Again, do light physical activity during the day lke standing at your computer desk or pacing around, etc. You can compare various activities here (http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.php). What you don't want is your metabolic rate to be slow which is why you must re-think how many calories you're getting; if it's too low and you have no re-feeds, it's just going to stay low. I'd suggest more calories with one re-feed a week. With more calories and more activity, your metabolic rate will increase (your body recognizes intense activity, but is often thrown by light activity so while it burns more calories, your body doesn't go into "paranoid zone" making it effective at killing fat).

Also you mentioned Almonds in an earlier post, consume 1 oz. only throughout the day. That will be about 3-4 almonds throughout the day; they are good at fat loss and a healthy source of fat (I didn't see them on the list, but try not to consume them all in one setting).

gwb90
02-28-2008, 04:57 AM
can i have a look at your diet NamesAreHardToPick

cheers

echelon101
02-28-2008, 05:09 AM
"7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey": drop the honey, period, and drop the milk, use h20 and just protein powder in your oat meal, it doesn't taste as good but what does that matter if your goal is to lose fat?

What the hell? If he adds protein powder he consumes 20kcals less which the in the grand scale of things. Is not a major issue. It should read 50g oats + skimmed milk + protein

"11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana" this is really bad, almost a 50:50 ratio of yolk/white? drop the single yolk all together, you can get the nutrients from other foods/supps. and 1 egg white is NOT enough protein. 1 whole banana? why do you need that insulin spike especially with a yolk, and why the fatty banana?

Fatty banana my arse! Boil of 1 whole egg + 4 egg whites on some whole meal bread/complex carb, thats about 300kcals 400kcals with the banana

"1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple" I'm sorry if I sound repetitive but why Salad cream? Its actually very simple, if its an empty calorie skip it. try your tuna in a salad with light itallian dressing.
Salad dressing = A LOT of fat
Almond = fat
Cranberries = insulin spike
fat + Insulin spike = 22%+ bodyfat

I agree drop the dressing, using 1 tbsp olive oil + balsamic vinegar instead, drop the almonds and cranberries (for later) as they won't fill you up. Have some brown rice/complex carb with the tuna. Apple is good as it's fiberous although I am tempted to say have it as a snack

"4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)"
Man you eat way too much sugar, protein bar = fat regardless of brand, there are some low ones, but fat and sugar don't mix remember that. try some whole food w/ no sugar. Stop mixing fat and carbs every meal.

Buy protein bars initially aim for low carb high protein, the Detour bar is meant to be really good, is recommend in the 12 week transformation articles on the main site. I would ditch the grapes unless you like them and maybe have the protein bar with an apple/banana

"7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg"
this is better but not perfect, you want little or no carbs your last meal of the night, but 7pm is kind of early IMO for last meal. Pea's are one of the few green veggies on the "no" GI list. try broccoli lettuce, green beans, ect..

Chicken is good, white rice is bad have brown rice. Rule of thumb is to buy stuff you'd normally buy but to have the brown version. Any vegetables are ok.

Insert meal - before bed

200g Cottage cheese/cassein + almonds or peanut butter

If you listen to the guy who commented initially your kcals will NOT reach 1900, which is the minimum RDA of kcals for a male, you will be craving like crazy, lose a lot of strength and lack energy. Make sure as well you cosume +1g/lb body weight of protein. Low calorie high protein foods like fish and white meats are your friends. Also you need to have at least 50g of fat a day.

The Solution
02-28-2008, 05:14 AM
diet has a lack of veggies / healthy fats and complex carbs , and too low in protein

also how is the intensity of your wokrouts? i would suggest super setting some isolation exercises and consider HIIT cardio sessions to really shed bodyfat..

Also for cardio you may want to start doing early morning cardio on an empty stomach popping some BCAA's or having just a whey shake upon rising since you workout @ night,

also i think you need to be more specific in your diet when you train? is it at night? if so i dont see a POST WORKOUT MEAL which is vital.

gwb90
02-28-2008, 05:14 AM
if only there was a set of rules on nutrition.

many opinion a a confussed person trying to drop BF

cheers

gwb90
02-28-2008, 05:18 AM
up in the morning before breakfast of oats etc. 30 crunches / 15 pressups / 10 chins x 2sets

evening meal chicken etc. around 19:00

workout around 19:45 with protein shake within 30mins after

A.J.PT
02-28-2008, 05:26 AM
Here are some other conflicts with your goal:

-your only doing 50mins of cardio/week, try 50 minutes per session, 4-5 sessions per week.

"7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey": drop the honey, period, and drop the milk, use h20 and just protein powder in your oat meal, it doesn't taste as good but what does that matter if your goal is to lose fat?

"11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana" this is really bad, almost a 50:50 ratio of yolk/white? drop the single yolk all together, you can get the nutrients from other foods/supps. and 1 egg white is NOT enough protein. 1 whole banana? why do you need that insulin spike especially with a yolk, and why the fatty banana?

"1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple" I'm sorry if I sound repetitive but why Salad cream? Its actually very simple, if its an empty calorie skip it. try your tuna in a salad with light itallian dressing.
Salad dressing = A LOT of fat
Almond = fat
Cranberries = insulin spike
fat + Insulin spike = 22%+ bodyfat

"4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)"
Man you eat way too much sugar, protein bar = fat regardless of brand, there are some low ones, but fat and sugar don't mix remember that. try some whole food w/ no sugar. Stop mixing fat and carbs every meal.

"7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg"
this is better but not perfect, you want little or no carbs your last meal of the night, but 7pm is kind of early IMO for last meal. Pea's are one of the few green veggies on the "no" GI list. try broccoli lettuce, green beans, ect..

Your diet is your weak point from what I can see, you may feel like your eating healthy because your taking a bunch of "healthy foods" and randomly mixing them up, but its almost just as bad as guy who eats with no regards to his diet every day. Fat and carbs do not mix! sugar isn't necessary every meal, or any meal for that matter on a daily basis. You diet needs a lot of work if you want to see any results. Fruit is "healthy" but just because some thing like a banana is good for you doesn't mean it wont make you fat.


X2....lots of good points here so i dont need to add my input... i agree ...high insulin and fat are not a good combo for weight loss

gwb90
02-28-2008, 05:44 AM
alot of replies seem to ask WHY? why am i putting certain fruits here and eating other things there.

i am experiment and have created this thread to get the answer and if required start from scratch if on there was 1 simple answer

gwb90
02-28-2008, 05:49 AM
you seem to know what your talking about.

could i trouble you to modify/tweat my diet as per your comments.

i am going to increase my cardio too.

cheer

The Solution
02-28-2008, 06:13 AM
up in the morning before breakfast of oats etc. 30 crunches / 15 pressups / 10 chins x 2sets

evening meal chicken etc. around 19:00

workout around 19:45 with protein shake within 30mins after

you still need a meal after your post workout shake.. care to tell me what you put in your shake? it sjhould be a 2:1 carb to protein ratio.. ie 60g of carbs for 30g of protein.. the carb choice is up to you and what you get your best gains from.

and then follow this up with a meal 60-90 minutes later of good lean protein (or casein due to the fact its ur last meal of the day) + some carbs + veggies

as for your cardio.. make it more intense along wtih your workouts, superset your isolations, and also change from steady cardio unless in the mroning on an empty stomach to HIIT cardio a couple times a week

gwb90
02-28-2008, 06:22 AM
what is "casein"

2 scoops of protein in water
Nutrition Facts

per scoop
Calories 105.46
Calories from Fat 13.27
Total Fat 1.47g 2%
Protein 22.11g 44%
Total Carbohydrate 1.02g

can u give me an example of what to eat for this meal

gwb90
02-28-2008, 06:41 AM
7:30 60g oats + water + 1 scoops protein
10:00 1g L-glut + 1 multi vit
11:00 2 egg whites
1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon low fat dressing with some salad leaves
4:00 what now??
7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup broccoli
protein drink after workout.
meal later???

doesn't sounds like enough.

what about fruit during the day?

should i not be eating more than this. or am i missing the point,

cheers

NamesAreHardToPick
02-28-2008, 06:50 AM
can i have a look at your diet NamesAreHardToPick

cheers

Sure I'll post it when I get back from school as it doesn't stay the same from day to day, but I need to bookmark this thread so I can return to it later.

baarat
02-28-2008, 06:51 AM
7:30 60g oats + water + 1 scoops protein
10:00 1g L-glut + 1 multi vit
11:00 2 egg whites
1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon low fat dressing with some salad leaves
4:00 what now??
7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup broccoli
protein drink after workout.
meal later???

doesn't sounds like enough.

what about fruit during the day?

should i not be eating more than this. or am i missing the point,

cheers
No that's not a great diet......barely any fat at all. And you need to eat more, contrary to popular belief. Your last meal should be protein and carbs, as well as your 4:00 meal. At 11:00 eat the whole egg not just the whites and get some efa's into you.

gwb90
02-28-2008, 06:54 AM
what's efa's

gwb90
02-28-2008, 06:55 AM
there seems to be a big split of opinions. eat more fat eat less fat.

whole eggs only whites. are there 2books i should look at.

i want to sort it. but i am seriously getting confussed.

whilst the forums are great, they really do confuse me some times.

gwb90
02-28-2008, 06:58 AM
can you please post your diets or modify my diet as a post

db2012
02-28-2008, 07:01 AM
[b] What the hell? If he adds protein powder he consumes 20kcals less which the in the grand scale of things.

What is your point? he eats 20kcals less? hes dropping fat and lactose from his 1st meal of the day every day! that is my point. 2 scoops Isopure is 0 carbs, 0 fat, 50g of protein.

Did you miss the fact that he is trying to cut his body fat? I'm curious to know what your bf% is? I have actually made a living writing diets, I'm currently maintaining around 8% body fat. You keep eating detour bars that have 9g of fat! (3.5 sat) yolks, and banana's and see how ripped you get. People love to rationalize when they eat the foods they like, and don't like to hear the reality of nutrition, but things like bars are NOT good when your trying to maintain low body fat.


Buy protein bars initially aim for low carb high protein, the Detour bar is meant to be really good, is recommend in the 12 week transformation articles on the main site. I would ditch the grapes unless you like them and maybe have the protein bar with an apple/banana

I cannot believe your suggesting, especially over whole food, the man is trying to lose fat? tell me what good is a LOW CARB protein bar that is loaded with fat when you eat it with a banana which has around 50+ carbs more then half of that pure sugar! Lets take the fruit out of the picture, why would want that much unhealthy fat to begin with when your dieting?? Bars are OK once in a great while, I have maybe 1 bar every other week, I prefer a cliff bar, pure protein, or promax, (lower the fat the better, no more then 4.5 total) but don't get me wrong, they are not on any approved food list by any means when dieting.

GrimRep_er
02-28-2008, 07:10 AM
in brief.

my training:
around 15years now but never serious

want to get ripped

i am 5'8" 168lb good proportion 15" arms etc.

measure 22.5%bf

train @ total per body part 12-15 sets at 15reps (only changed fro 8reps in the last 8weeks)
jog 30mins monday
chest on tuesday
jog or skip 20mins wednesday
biceps on thursday
day off friday (still watching diet)
sat train back traps + triceps + ABS

diet (in process of changing) with some help

7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey
10:00 1g L-glut + 1 multi vit
11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana
1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple
4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)
7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg
protein drink after workout.

got p'd off before christmas as i experimented taking animal cuts with nothing to write home about and concluded a waist of time consuming some 20odd tabs per day whilst training hard.

any way enough typing for just now. if you can look over the above and maybe provide some assistance that would be great.

i train hard and just want to see the muscles i am developing. i am unsure if i am taking enough protein to help reduce my body fat.

after christmas i made some changes to my routine from 8 reps to 15 reps and watched my diet a bit and reduced BF from 25 to 22.5% just wont move lower.

cheers for the help
gwb
I read through your post and all the responses. A lot of people have given you good advice in my opinion. One thing I might consider doing, is buying a south beach diet book, especially if you are trying to cut right now. The diet really focuses on high protien, good fats, and minimizing certain carbs. That's really what you're trying to do. It teaches you the propper way to eat, and it has a lot of recipes so you will know exactly what you are putting in your body. I've seen many people have great success with this. Best of luck to you, hope you achieve your goal.

db2012
02-28-2008, 07:22 AM
there seems to be a big split of opinions. eat more fat eat less fat.

whole eggs only whites. are there 2books i should look at.

i want to sort it. but i am seriously getting confussed.

whilst the forums are great, they really do confuse me some times.

The bottom line is that there is more then one way to get the same or similar results, there are effective diets that have all sorts of rules that would conflict within one another. Its just like training, a lot of different things work. You cannot listen to every one when there is so much information out there on the subject. Banana's are not worthless! there is just a time and a place for them.

When I speak, the advice I gave was based off a keto/low carb technique which I think is the most effective and practical diet for a beginner. I also am a big fan of carb cycling diets with low/med/high days. My personal diet is all based off feel. I eat lower carbs overall, I try to really carb up for my 1st meal of the day and usually my 4th or so I will also add complex carbs. If I'm more active on certain days I will have complex carbs meals 1-5 leading up to what ever activity I'm doing, simple carbs the meal before. If I have too many low days my body will tell me, and I will carb up the following meal. Your best bet is to continue to do research and/or hire a trainer, I can help you with your questions and give you some thing basic to follow if you shoot me a PM or email, I'm way to busy to take on any clients right now though.

Cape1
02-28-2008, 07:27 AM
cape1any chance you can post up your schedule of diet + excercise?cheersYou wouldn't want to do what I'm doing right now. First, my program is geared to contest prep; secondly, it's based on trial and error with my own body. Although I have a bit of Scot in me, you are certainly of a different tribe. My workouts would not be appropriate for someone to jump right into eitherI looked at your diet below and my first observation is that you're not eating enough. Keep it simple: Get 5 meals, each with a serving of protein. You're 175# and 22% FAT. That means, based on your lean weight, you could get away with around 150 g protein somewhere - take 170 to play it safe. If you are genuinly working hard and the fat is not coming off, you may be a bit carb sensative. Perhaps try cycling a bit. go 3 or 4 days with low carb and spike it on the 4 or 5 day. Just get even, lean protein sources throughout the day. If you take carbs, take them early and taper off later in the day. Get plenty of EFA's and keep the dietary fat down. Lots of info out here but I'm happy to help if I can. One thing I can promise you though is that you'll have to figure out your own body - i.e., how it responds to stress and diet - and sadly, that just takes time and consistent effort.

gwb90
02-28-2008, 07:49 AM
cheers guys

i have really found this thread really helpful. i will post some updates in a few weeks.

gwb90

echelon101
02-28-2008, 08:01 AM
It's 12.1%

:D

I accept your point that the Detour bar, for example, has 10g of fat but in your diet adjustment you removed fat completely so 10g of fat is actually needed. But I was only trying to offer an alternative to his homemade protein bar.

From a quick google I have found that

"The Department of Health recommends that no more than a third of calories come from this nutrient"

If we aim to get him on a diet of 2000kcals then 600kcals of his diet has to come through fat which is around 65g of fat per day. That's for healthy eating but this guy wants to lose weight so I would reduce this fat by about 15-20g no more no less.

I actually think I really good idea would be if you go to fitday.com and have a fiddle with food macros.

The basics of your diet would be

2000kcals a day
minimum 45g fat (no trans)
minimum 170g protein
6-8 meals a day with 2-3 hour spacing
Post work out shake of 1:1 carb/pro
No carbs in your last 2 meals
At least 30mins cardio sessions 4-6 times a week
Lifting 3 times a week
One cheat meal every fortnight, done as the last meal of the day

Then just find what foods you like and what suites.



/Opinion

gwb90
02-28-2008, 08:04 AM
this is where my confussion comes in.

eat healthy low carbs.

so stay away from

potatoes rice pasta bread oatmeal banana apple brocolli cauliflour + pease

i thought i should eat oats in the morning + brocolli with 1 of my meals.

cheers

tinyman5000
02-28-2008, 08:15 AM
the OP is dumb

gwb90
02-28-2008, 08:20 AM
what

tinyman5000
02-28-2008, 08:20 AM
youre obviously a troll

gwb90
02-28-2008, 08:21 AM
new to the forum world

Cape1
02-28-2008, 08:23 AM
this is where my confussion comes in.

eat healthy low carbs.

so stay away from

potatoes rice pasta bread oatmeal banana apple brocolli cauliflour + pease

i thought i should eat oats in the morning + brocolli with 1 of my meals.

cheers

Everything you read is right and everything you read is also wrong. It depends on when, to whom and why it is being applied. That question is your homework assignment. Read the Fat loss stickies and get some basics down. Start following something consistently and then you can tweak things along the way. I know you're desperate to see results but there is no other choice other than to work at it, stay consistent and then live with some trial and error.

echelon101
02-28-2008, 08:31 AM
Complex Carbs EAT

Bran
Wheatgerm
Barley
Maize
Buckwheat
Cornmeal
Oatmeal
Brown Pasta
Brown Spaghetti
Brown rice
Potatoes
Other root vegetables (carrots, parsnips)
Wholemeal breads
Granary bread
Brown bread
Pitta bread
Wholegrain Bagel
Wholegrain cereals
High fiber breakfast cereals
Porridge oats
All bran
Wheetabix
Shredded wheat
Ryvita crispbread
Muesli
Cassava
Corn
Yam
Oatcakes
Peas
Beans
Lentils

Protein EAT

Chicken 3.5 oz: 33 grams
Turkey 3.5 oz: 28 grams
Top Round Sirloin 4 oz: 35 grams
Egg Whites (10 egg whites): 35 grams
Tuna 5 oz: 32 grams
Salmon 6 oz: 32 grams protein / 10 grams good fats
Grouper 3.5 oz: 31 grams
Red Snapper 6 oz: 31 grams
Pro V60 Protein 1 scoop: 30 grams

Fat EAT

Good sources of fat are
fish oils (1 tablespoon),
extra virgin olive oil (1 tablespoon),
and flaxseed oil (1 tablespoon).

Each serving size contains approximately 14 grams of fat.



All this information has been copied from google/bb.com

READ THIS

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hugo_newyear5.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/nic2.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mohr116.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mohr115.htm

gwb90
03-01-2008, 09:10 AM
thanks for all of your comments

how does this sound

meal 1 - morning 7:30
1 cup oats semi skimmed milk + 1 scoop of protein shake disolved in water
cup of green tea

meal 2 - 10:30
5 egg whites
1 mult vit + 1g l-glut

meal 3 - lunch 1:00
3oz chicken/turkey with salad leaves + cucumber + tomato
1 apple

meal 3 - 4:00
3oz tin of tuna (drained) with 1tblspoon low olive oil base fat dressing (1g fat .1 saturates)
1cup grapes

meal 4 - 7:00
4oz chicken/turkey + 1 cup veg brocolli or green beens

meal 5 - 9:00
2scoops protein

2 scoops protein (within 30mins of training)

gwb90
03-01-2008, 09:11 AM
i was thinking this was an improvement

but when you put this into fit

gwb90
03-01-2008, 09:13 AM
is this better?

it really reduces my calori intake?

fruit in or out?

which 1 is better?

echelon101
03-01-2008, 10:29 AM
Neither, your consuming only 1143kcals which is about 750kcals below MINIMUM RDA

Here's a read out from fit day......when I UNDER ATE!

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c289/echelon_101/untitled-13.jpg


2071kcals
35g fat
302g carbs
145g pro


And here's a day when I nailed my cutting my macros

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c289/echelon_101/Untitled-3-5.jpg

2523 kcals
44g fat
330 carbs
191 pro
(for anyone interested the caster sugar refers to some sweets and fingers = chocolate fingers)


Its not hard to eat!

gwb90
03-01-2008, 10:41 AM
cheers

is that not too much carbs?

Big_League
03-01-2008, 12:06 PM
You're getting a lot of different opinions because there are more than one way to lose weight and gain muscle. Obviously, you want to find what works best for you. You will not do this just by getting advice. You are going to have to do some trial and error on your part.

Taking that into account, I do not recommend trying to "fix" your current diet and work out schedule. I would recommend, rather, taking a look at your situation and your goals, and starting from there.

First you have had some trouble losing weight, and judging by your weight and BF% I would say you at least have some endomorphic properties, which means you put fat on easier than most people. But that doesn't mean you can't get the same results as anyone else, just that you have to take that into account.

I do not count macro calories but did when I first started. I recommend at least 1 gram of protein per pound, and after that you are just going to have to experiment to see what your body responds best to.

The basic arguments going on here are should you get more or less calories, and should your diet be fat/protein or carb/protein, primarily.

The answer for more or less: at 168 pounds, I recommend STARTING at about 2200 calories. If you are not losing fat or putting on muscle, that means you need to add or subtract calories. If you are not putting muscle on AND are 100% sure you are working out hard (be honest and read up), and are not overtraining, add more food.

As far as what to eat, get fresh food, natural stuff, and read the stickies in the Nutrition main forum page to get an idea of how to judge food. I would recommend 4-6 decent sized meals and ALWAYS A LOT OF WATER.

Try a diet for 12 weeks high in fat and low in carb and then for 12 weeks low in fat and high in carb. Here are two very simple outlines for a high fat/low carb and vice versa. High fat is in bold, high carb is in italics.

High fat
High carb/balance

Breakfast:
3-4 whole eggs
1-2 strips bacon
1/2 cup OJ (100% natural don't stress bout the sugar it's not a huge serving)

3-4 eggs, half whole
1 serving oats or whole wheat bread
1/2 cup of OJ

Snack before lunch:
Peanuts / all natural peanut/nut/cashew/mix bar
Protein / healthy carb bar
PLENTY OF WATER
Optional: Protein shake

Lunch:
Lean meat or fish
Serving of vegies
Plenty of water, or skim milk if you want more calories
Optional: Multivitamin

Pre work out:
One decent serving of healthy complex carbs
Some sort of vegetable, meat, cottage cheese, yogurt...

Post work out:
Read up on post workout shakes, don't know enough about you to tell you right now

Dinner:
Decent serving of meat or fish
Small serving of healthy carbs
Healthy serving of vegetables + can add fruit + can add EFAs
Same thing but large serving of healthy carbs
Optional: protein shake

Before bed:
Any good source of protein, could be peanut butter, meat, fish, nuts, do some research
Good serving of fat, could be flax seed oil, etc
[i]Any good serving of protein that is low in far
Small serving of complex carbs[/b]

Obviously you have to put in the time to learn what foods and what serving sizes to eat.

As far as cardio, the most important thing that people tend to overlook, is
not doing it OFTEN enough. You may run 3 days a week for an hour but what're you doing the other 4 days? Sitting around all day at work and home? Can not emphasize how big of a jump in results you'll see if you just start living an active life style.

Find any excuse to get up and move around at least once every 2 hrs at work. Stairs > elevator. Park far from the building and walk to your car for work (far as in 5 min walk, put the work in).

Start doing some kind of cardio in your free time. Just 30 mins, best if you can incorporate it to your life somehow (bike riding, basketball, playing with kids if you're a parent, boxing, tennis, whatever). Continue the gym cardio 3x a week but do something everyday every few hours to get the best results.

More info if you want it but read this first and start doing this.

Big_League
03-01-2008, 12:38 PM
Also re-reading my post, for those that will say "too much fat won't go into keto", he needs to study keto IMO before trying the diet. Point him to the keto board not just unexplained solutions.

sanan
03-01-2008, 12:57 PM
in brief.

my training:
around 15years now but never serious

want to get ripped

i am 5'8" 168lb good proportion 15" arms etc.

measure 22.5%bf

train @ total per body part 12-15 sets at 15reps (only changed fro 8reps in the last 8weeks)
jog 30mins monday
chest on tuesday
jog or skip 20mins wednesday
biceps on thursday
day off friday (still watching diet)
sat train back traps + triceps + ABS

diet (in process of changing) with some help

7:30 60g oats + semi milk + honey
10:00 1g L-glut + 1 multi vit
11:00 1 egg + 1 egg white + 1 banana
1:00 1 tin tuna 185g (brine drained) with 1 tbl spoon salad cream + some almonds + driet cramberrys + 1 apple
4:00 grapes + bana + protein bar (just experimenting with making my own unsuccessful just now)
7:00 100g chick breast 6 spoons of white rice + 1 cup peas or some other veg
protein drink after workout.

got p'd off before christmas as i experimented taking animal cuts with nothing to write home about and concluded a waist of time consuming some 20odd tabs per day whilst training hard.

any way enough typing for just now. if you can look over the above and maybe provide some assistance that would be great.

i train hard and just want to see the muscles i am developing. i am unsure if i am taking enough protein to help reduce my body fat.

after christmas i made some changes to my routine from 8 reps to 15 reps and watched my diet a bit and reduced BF from 25 to 22.5% just wont move lower.

cheers for the help
gwb

start on keto:D
if you don't lose fat on keto, I'll nominate you as the mmber of the year:D

echelon101
03-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Lol, I was about say something along the lines of "that diet looks awfully like keto"......might be too advanced for our friend here :P

gwb90
03-01-2008, 04:15 PM
surely it can't be OK to eat all the fat in the morning for a great length of time?

i kind of want to eat healthy as that's what i think i do just now

Distance
03-01-2008, 04:45 PM
thanks for all of your comments

how does this sound

meal 1 - morning 7:30
1/2 cup oats semi skimmed milk + 1 scoop of protein shake disolved in water
apple
cup of green tea

meal 2 - 10:30
6oz chicken/turkey with salad leaves + cucumber + tomato
4oz sweet potato
1 mult vit + 1g l-glut

meal 3 - lunch 1:00
3 whole eggs + 3 more egg whites
10-15 almonds or 1-2 tbsp of peanut butter

meal 3 - 4:00
2x 3oz tin of tuna (drained) with 1tblspoon low olive oil base fat dressing (1g fat .1 saturates)
10-15 almonds or 1-2 tbsp of peanut butter

meal 4 - 7:00
4oz chicken/turkey + 1 cup veg brocolli or green beens

meal 5 - 9:00
2scoops protein

2 scoops protein (within 30mins of training)

my edited version of your current diet

Richie_Awesome
03-01-2008, 04:55 PM
jog 30mins monday
chest on tuesday
jog or skip 20mins wednesday
biceps on thursday
day off friday (still watching diet)
sat train back traps + triceps + ABS

****ty workout routine.

Try a 3x per week full body split. Incoroprate a push, pull, squat, and a pull from the ground in each workout. Stick with compounds.

Lower your reps. Down to 8 was a start, but do some more lower reps, I personally love 10x3 and 5x5, 4x6 works wonders as well. Honestly, I've been experimenting with lower sets as well such as 3x5.

zarg02
03-01-2008, 06:10 PM
If you are stuck over 20% bf you eat like a fat person. End of story.

Elwood83
03-01-2008, 07:23 PM
surely it can't be OK to eat all the fat in the morning for a great length of time?

i kind of want to eat healthy as that's what i think i do just now
Fat isn't your enemy. The only reason fat can possibly make you fat is because there are 9 calories in every fat gram as compared to 4 calories for every gram of protein and carb. If you keep your calories burned above your consumed, you'll lose weight and fat but you can't go overboard with it.

gwb90
03-02-2008, 12:44 AM
so what's the important part?

the amount of calories

or the amount of fat

gwb90
03-02-2008, 12:49 AM
jesus man ^ you want him to just start doing 50 min cardio sessions 5 times a week? Hes 20%BF sh*t i got ripped without any real cardio. I think he just needs to eat less for a long time and he can get to 10-12 no problem.

eating less isn't the answer.

echelon101
03-02-2008, 12:49 AM
Calories, but the question is too simple. For you calories you can't just eat a whole bag of sugar or a tub of protein. You have to have a balance of carbs/protein/fat. Stop asking questions and go do some research.

gwb90
03-02-2008, 12:51 AM
i am going to keep a journal on fitday as of tomorrow.

cheers

gwb90
03-02-2008, 01:04 AM
i will post back in a couple of weeks.

big thanks to you guys for all of your opinions and help.

cheers
gwb90