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View Full Version : Designer Supplements VIGOR now available in the cyberstore!



uhockey
03-28-2006, 06:28 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/design/vig.html

Vigor is the second release under the Designer Stackables product line. Designed specifically for its fantastic anti-oxidant and health promoting effects, Vigor just might be the staple product your regimen has been lacking all along. Your mom has been right all along. Whether or not you chose to ignore the fact as a child, there is no doubt that there is some validity to the phrase "Mother knows best". True enough, eating fresh fruit and vegetables really is good for you. Packed with fiber, vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals (also known as phytonutrients) and a whole host of other beneficial plant chemicals, the inclusion of fruits and vegetables in the bodybuilding diet as a benefit to the metabolic processes of building muscle and burning body fat should be obvious. Actually, we're not just talking about bodybuilders and athletes here for general health, everyone can and should be eating fruits and vegetables daily in order to meet the general recommendation of five portions per day. But let's get real here for a minute …amp;quot; who can honestly say they consume at least five portions every single day? In reality, a good estimate suggests that anyone eating two portions a day is doing pretty well.

Introducing Vigor

Whether the lack of consumption is due to taste, availability, or simply convenience, Vigor may be the cost effective solution to the problem. By providing a calorie-free means of obtaining a large portion the necessary micronutrients and phytochemicals required daily, Vigor forms a staple, not only of your supplement regimen, but of your diet. While it is possible for those who cannot stomach any fruits or vegetables to use Vigor as their primary means of obtaining such compounds, we strongly suggest you use Vigor with a minimum of two portions of fruits and/or vegetables per day.

Vigor vs. Oxidative Stress

Along with oxygen ions and peroxides, free radicals are included in a larger category of nasty molecules known as Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS.) Formed during many cellular processes, free radicals are highly reactive molecules that collide with each other and cause cellular damage which has been theorized to impact everything from aging to atherosclerosis. Any time the concentration of pro-oxidants dominates the concentration of anti-oxidants is referred to as Oxidative Stress. Oxidative Stress suggests a far from ideal environment for adding mass or cutting body fat. In fact, oxidative stress can hinder recovery significantly. It is because of this that we recommend a dosing of Glucophase XR be taken immediately after a workout, when free radicals and ROS are elevated. Vigor stacks exceptionally well with Glucophase XR for the purpose of reducing harmful compounds and promoting faster recovery.

Vigor is formulated using the scientifically developed ORAC+ Manufacturing Process, ensuring the ORAC (Oxygen Radical Absorption Capacity) of the constituents remains high. ORAC itself measures the anti-oxidant activity of a substance or compound. More specifically, it quantifies the degree and length of time it takes to inhibit the action of an oxidizing agent such as free radicals. Generally speaking, the higher the ORAC value the better, making VIGOR™ a supreme solution to the problems of free radicals and oxidative stress.

If you are not consuming sufficient volumes of fruits and vegetables daily, which most people simply are not doing, then Vigor should form a staple of your dietary intake. In fact, considering the recommendations for fruit intake are set to meet the average non-athlete, even those who consume at or above the recommended daily portions can still attain benefit from Vigor.

To summarize, Vigor:
Is an excellent source of anti-oxidants,
Enhances immune functioning,
Promotes healthy blood lipid profiles,
Provides a potential approach for delaying the aging process, and
Supports an optimal cellular environment for growth and recovery.

uhockey
03-28-2006, 06:29 AM
Q. What exactly is a free radical and why should I care?


Free radicals are molecules with unpaired electrons. Because of this structure, they are very unstable and so seek out other molecules with which they can combine to develop some sort of stability. It is when the radicals find their targets and collide that the majority of the damage is done.

Q. What damage?


Anything from aging, to atherosclerosis, to cancer, to recovery and growth inhibition and much more equally harmful stuff.

Q. What causes free radicals?


As stated in the product write-up, “There are numerous origins of free radical formation including pollution in the air, drug use, chemicals in the food and drink we consume, pesticides and contaminants on crops and even exercise (as waste products of cellular respiration).”

Q. Will I notice a difference straight away when I use VIGOR™?


It is not something you will “feel” per se, but if you currently don’t consume enough fruit and vegetables (which most people simply don’t), then over time you will notice a mildly reduced recovery time and even a mild increase in the rate of gains. Health-wise you will feel like a million dollars.

Q. Where can I buy the product?


Check our retailers section.

Q. How many servings per bottle?


Based on a two capsules per day usage, each bottle, containing 60 capsules, would last 30 days.

Q. Should I cycle VIGOR™?


Normally for Designer Supplements or Designer Stackables products we recommend you cycle all supplements except for multivitamins and minerals, protein powder and anti-oxidants. Given that VIGOR™ caters for the anti-oxidant aspect, it can and should be run year-round.

Q. The label says “ORAC” and “µmolesTE”. What do these terms mean?


ORAC stands for Oxygen Radical Absorption Capacity, which, in layman’s, measures the anti-oxidant activity of a substance or compound. Generally speaking, the higher the ORAC value the better.

“µmolesTE” is shorthand for micromoles/trolox equivalents. Without making it too confusing, it’s basically a method of standardizing ORAC.

Q. So is 5800 ORAC µmolesTE good?


The USDA recommends the average adult gets about 3000-5000 ORAC units per day, so yeah, it is pretty superb.

Q. I already consume fruit with breakfast and vegetables with my evening meal, so do I still need VIGOR™?


Absolutely. While you have a good base, those portions alone will not be enough to supply you with enough ORAC units.

Q. What dose of VIGOR™ do you recommend for me?


At least two caps per day, even if you do consume 2-3 portions of fruit and vegetables per day already. Space them out over breakfast and post-workout if you like.

Q. Why post-workout?


Because after a strenuous workout, oxidative stress is often at its worst due to the increased cellular respiration from training. At this time, the body can either begin the recuperation phases of recovery that eventually lead to growth and strength, or further tissue damage can occur if the body is not prepared for the attack. Using VIGOR™ at this time helps prime your cells towards recovery and growth.

Q. Is VIGOR™ ok for vegetarians?


Yes. But vegans must beware that the capsules are gelatin-based.

Q. There is a warning in the write-up about using VIGOR™ with stimulants. What does this mean?


Your body has a means of metabolizing drugs and toxins, through a collection of various enzymes. Certain extracts present in VIGOR™ can inhibit these enzymes, thereby delaying the rate at which your body can process compounds like stimulants etc. The extract content of VIGOR™ is not hugely significant to cause any major issue, but those more sensitive to stimulants and such may feel slightly more uncomfortable combining the two. If you give it 90 minutes or so after taking VIGOR™, the use of stimulants will be fine.

Q. What about any particular health conditions?


Always check with your doctor before using any supplements.

xJonathanx
03-28-2006, 06:31 AM
Awesome!!!

Why no EGCG in there?

888888
03-28-2006, 06:31 AM
hmm interesing, ill read up more about it

* the bottle looks flash :cool:

uhockey
03-28-2006, 06:35 AM
How can you compare a multivitamin to a high potency natural antioxidant complex?

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-28-2006, 06:37 AM
How can you compare a multivitamin to a high potency natural antioxidant complex?
Simply by looking at the ingredients. Its quite easy actually.

sawastea
03-28-2006, 06:38 AM
Sweet

LOL @ JRRBB4L

uhockey
03-28-2006, 06:38 AM
Here is a link to the COMPLETE writeup which may clarify how this product differs significantly but is very complimentary to your daily MV.

http://www.designersupps.com/product_writeups/VIGOR.pdf

Note that oxidative stress is a very complex process that is still poorly understood in it's origins and mechanisms of control. We did not include ECGC in this product because there are plenty of affordable great tea products on the market such as Primaforce's Lean Green. In order to put ENOUGH ECGC in Vigor to make a significant difference we would have been forced to decrease other actives with a myriad of potential health benefits.

uhockey
03-28-2006, 06:40 AM
Simply by looking at the ingredients. Its quite easy actually.

You must have a pretty badass multivitamin if it's sporting an ORAC value like Vigor.....and it must be friggin ENORMOUS to contain the RVD of all those vitamins PLUS all the high potency extracts in Vigor.

Robboe
03-28-2006, 06:48 AM
I dont see anything in there that my multivitamin doesnt already have. And that runs me like $5 per month at most.

Which mutlivit do you use, may i ask?

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-28-2006, 06:51 AM
Which mutlivit do you use, may i ask?
Right now Im using GNC Ultra Mega Gold which I bought on sale for like $12 for 90 tablets.

uhockey
03-28-2006, 06:59 AM
Right now Im using GNC Ultra Mega Gold which I bought on sale for like $12 for 90 tablets.

The product is not similar in ANY way to Vigor aside from the content of a few key anti-oxidants.

I'm not suggesting that vigor replace a multi, a MV is essential regardless of what you are taking, but please read the Vigor writeup before making such a blanket statement.

Robboe
03-28-2006, 07:00 AM
Right now Im using GNC Ultra Mega Gold which I bought on sale for like $12 for 90 tablets.

How did you conclude that you could compare this with Vigor? Me confusey.

factotum
03-28-2006, 08:01 AM
GNC Ultra Mega Gold

Serving Size 2 Tablets
Servings Per Container 45

Amount Per Serving % DV

Vitamin A (75% as beta-Carotene and 25% as Acetate) 20000.00 IU 400%

Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 500.00 mg 833%

Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 400.00 IU 100%

Vitamin E (as natural d-alpha Tocopheryl Succinate) 300.00 IU 1000%

Thiamin (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 100.00 mg 6667%

Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) 100.00 mg 5882%

Niacin (as Niacinamide) 100.00 mg 500%

Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 100.00 mg 5000%

Folic Acid 400.00 mcg 100%

Vitamin B12 (as Cyanocobalamin) 150.00 mcg 2500%

Biotin 100.00 mcg 33%

Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium d-Pantothenate) 100.00 mg 1000%

Calcium (as Calcium Carbonate) 50.00 mg 5%

Iron (as Ferrous Fumarate) 10.00 mg 56%

Iodine (as Kelp) 100.00 mcg 67%

Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide) 50.00 mg 13%

Zinc (as Zinc Oxide) 15.00 mg 100%

Selenium (as Selenium Yeast) 150.00 mcg 214%

Copper (as Cupric Oxide) 2.00 mg 100%

Manganese (as Manganese Gluconate) 10.00 mg 500%

Chromium (as GTF Chromium Yeast) 100.00 mcg 83%




Molybdenum (as Molybdenum Yeast) 150.00 mcg **

Potassium (as Potassium Chloride) 10.00 mg 0%

Boron (as Boron Gluconate) 1.00 mg **

Choline Bitartrate 50.00 mg **

Inositol 25.00 mg **

para-Aminobenzoic Acid (PABA) 50.00 mg **

Trimethylglycine (TMG) 25.00 mg **

Citrus Bioflavonoids Complex 25.00 mg **

Rutin Powder 10.00 mg **

Hesperidin Complex 5.00 mg **

Quercetin Dihydrate 10.00 mg **

Natural Carotenoid Complex 15.00 mg **

N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) 10.50 mg **

Amylase 10.00 mg **

lipase 5.00 mg **

Protease 2.00 mg **

cellulase 5.00 mg **

Lycopene 200.00 mcg **

alpha-Lipoic Acid 4.50 mg **

Green Tea Leaves Extract (Camellia sinensis) 15.00 mg **

factotum
03-28-2006, 08:02 AM
Designer Supplements Vigor

Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30

Amount Per Serving:

Vigor Anti-O Matrix: 250mg
(proprietary blend of grape seed extract, bilberry powder, cranberry powder, prune powder, raspberry seed powder, resveratrol, quercetin, and tart, cherry powder using the ORAC+ manufacturing).
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
Vitamin E Acetate


B-Pro Matrix: 500mg Thiamin hcl 10mg, riboflavin 10mg, niacinamide 10mg, pyridoxine hcl 10mg folic acid, 200mcg) 100mg

factotum
03-28-2006, 08:07 AM
So how again are these even similar? Where's the fruit extracts in the multi? This fruit extract accounts for the majority of the ORAC rating and thus the anti-ox properties. I recall that fruit extracts only had a half life of 3 or so hours so wouldn't one need more than two caps per day? You might need more like 6 dosings per day to combat oxidants throughout the day.

But then again oxidant activity is at higher times than others so perhaps you can just take the two caps pre workout. But on non workout days I would assume you take them spaced apart so what times are recommended? Take it with breakfast and lunch? Is oxidant activity higher in during the day or at night? Any ideas?

jmil
03-28-2006, 08:07 AM
Well after looking at the ingredients, and hearing about this product from Uhockey, I was very impressed when I saw Vigor at the Arnold. I (and I believe my other boys from Molecular) picked up a couple bottles, and am using them right now. I think it's a fantastic product, and it will most likely be a staple in my routine.

TE
03-28-2006, 08:23 AM
Sweet

LOL @ JRRBB4L
LOL @ sawastea LOLing @ JRRBB4L. :D

uhockey
03-28-2006, 08:28 AM
Thanks jmil.

Wanderlei, as I'm sure you know, antioxidant activity is an ongoing process in the body. Oxidation of one substance, reduction of another, simply passing around the reactive species until something buffers it. Although the fruit halflives may be short, their efficacy is an ongoing process when combined with other antioxidants such as those in your diet, your multi, etc.

My advice, as always, is a good mix of antioxidants. Whether it be GXR, NAC, nOxidant, Lean Green.....each one has effects at a different place in the grand scheme of free radical stress. By formulating Vigor from a wide variety of extracts, the goal of the product was to work at many areas in the pathway.

In my opinion, if paired with good diet full of veggies, one can simply take one cap post-workout (especially if utilizing an NO product) to ameliorate some effects of the free radicals generated in training. People with worse diets could obviously use more.

On the 2 cap a day dosing scheme, I've prefered to take one post workout and one sometime in the evening. :)

chlaxman
03-28-2006, 08:28 AM
Finally. May have to pick this up at the end of the week with a protein purchase.

factotum
03-28-2006, 10:38 AM
uhockey, thanks for the advice. I thought it might be better to take an anti-ox pre workout to prevent or at least minimize the damage that exercise induces. And if using a NO product which can produce potent pro-oxidants I thought take it beforehand to offset the damage. Anti-oxs after a worjout would still be beneficial but I think it would benefit more if taken pr, though I'm probably wrong. Would taking Vigor pre workout with a NO product be a bad idea. I think it may offset the pro-ox formation from NO products but in this process would it also minimize the pumps and other effects of NO products?

Lastly, it seems like a good amount of oxidation occurs during the production of energy hence the need to take anit-oxs around workouts. But on non workout days would energy and free radical production be higher during the day as we need the energy to get through the day? Or is it higher at night while the body is repairing itself. It's probably not a too important as you kinda alluded too. Also with the mutli vits, GTE and other supps we take if we spread them throughout the day it's probably doesn't matter when they are taken. I just like to maximize the effects of my supps so if timing makes a difference I'd like to know, though indications are it really doesn't.

uhockey
03-28-2006, 10:47 AM
My only issue with taking it pre-workout is that it may ameliorate some of the efficacy of the NO precursors, in which case you may be wasting them and getting less of a subjective "pump." Remember, NO itself causes some oxidative stress and it's buffering via anti-oxidants may decrease it's effects.

Although I'm not 100% positive on when oxidative stress is highest, I'd imagine that on off days this would be during normal waking hours as opposed to sleep. It is the cellular processes of ATP formation that lead to most of the harmful free radicals generated endogenously and I believe your assumption is correct that these processes would be most notable during the day. However, since most people are eating and drinking during the day, there is plenty of movement and change in fluid balance which may act to buffer ROS while at night when you are laying around and not consuming food or drink, these oxidative species may be present for longer periods of time.

Most indications, however, indicate that oxidative stress is highest during the light cycle, but this is mostly attributed to sun damage.

dtrain13
03-28-2006, 10:55 AM
Sweet

LOL @ JRRBB4L

Indeed on both accounts....:cool:

DRP7
03-28-2006, 01:29 PM
My only issue with taking it pre-workout is that it may ameliorate some of the efficacy of the NO precursors, in which case you may be wasting them and getting less of a subjective "pump." Remember, NO itself causes some oxidative stress and it's buffering via anti-oxidants may decrease it's effects.

Although I'm not 100% positive on when oxidative stress is highest, I'd imagine that on off days this would be during normal waking hours as opposed to sleep. It is the cellular processes of ATP formation that lead to most of the harmful free radicals generated endogenously and I believe your assumption is correct that these processes would be most notable during the day. However, since most people are eating and drinking during the day, there is plenty of movement and change in fluid balance which may act to buffer ROS while at night when you are laying around and not consuming food or drink, these oxidative species may be present for longer periods of time.

Most indications, however, indicate that oxidative stress is highest during the light cycle, but this is mostly attributed to sun damage.

oxidative stress is particularly high during the following conditions:

- high rate of oxidative ATP production in mitochondria
- all kinds of inflammatory processes
- high sympathetic activity
- environmental: e.g. cigarrette smoking, pollution, UV-light
- artificial (but relevant to bodybuilding): uncouplers like DNP

let's imagine the worst possible oxidative stress-scenario:

a fat, smoking /environmetnl ROS) guy is trying to cut weight and takes DNP (uncoupling). Before doing very intensive cardio (HIIT) (oxidative ATP production) he is taking stimulants (sympathetic overactivity) and by overdoing the workouts he gets really bad DOMS (inflammation).

On paper, VIGOR is an excellent general-purpose antioxidant! I would definitely stack it with green tea extract and Glucophase XR. This combination should probably be the most physiologically effective + most cost-effective antioxidative stack to date.
Definitely my next buy!

Best regards and both thumbs up for VIGOR!

uhockey
03-28-2006, 01:39 PM
oxidative stress is particularly high during the following conditions:

- high rate of oxidative ATP production in mitochondria
- all kinds of inflammatory processes
- high sympathetic activity
- environmental: e.g. cigarrette smoking, pollution, UV-light
- artificial (but relevant to bodybuilding): uncouplers like DNP

let's imagine the worst possible oxidative stress-scenario:

a fat, smoking /environmetnl ROS) guy is trying to cut weight and takes DNP (uncoupling). Before doing very intensive cardio (HIIT) (oxidative ATP production) he is taking stimulants (sympathetic overactivity) and by overdoing the workouts he gets really bad DOMS (inflammation).

On paper, VIGOR is an excellent general-purpose antioxidant! I would definitely stack it with green tea extract and Glucophase XR. This combination should probably be the most physiologically effective + most cost-effective antioxidative stack to date.
Definitely my next buy!

Best regards and both thumbs up for VIGOR!

Hmm, aside from the DNP (not sure, but doubtful they're using) I think I've seen a couple nurses that fit your prototype. They compensate for the DNP by frequently hitting the tanning booths!

Thank you for the high praise, from you it means a lot and I certainly hope you enjoy Vigor if/when you order. :D

Trans_Isomer
03-28-2006, 01:48 PM
This is a very nice product... complements very well into the bodybuilder lifestyle. Oxidative damage via lifting, food, stress, and such really can have many, many adverse effects on the body. Most people like NO products, and do no realize that nitric oxide causes cellular damage. If your going to use an NO product, I have always recommended ALA, and now have a new recommendation of Vigor, very nice DS.

freakie
03-28-2006, 01:50 PM
You know nurses that are taking DNP?

martel04
03-28-2006, 01:51 PM
uhockey would i feel or notice a difference from taking this product or is it just something that you know is good for you but you cant feel it like a multi.

Trans_Isomer
03-28-2006, 01:57 PM
uhockey would i feel or notice a difference from taking this product or is it just something that you know is good for you but you cant feel it like a multi.

Well im not uhockey obviously, but you probaly will not "feel" anything off of an anti-oxidant product. Some report general feelings of "wellness" but other than that, you probaly will not feel much. Your body on the inside will thank you though

uhockey
03-28-2006, 01:58 PM
Trans Isomer, thanks for the compliment. Hopefully all the praise converts into sales as people realize how beneficial this gem of a product really is. I worked hard to get DS to release this one. :)

Freakie, reread my comment.

Martel, no, I don't think this is something you can "feel" but I must note that I was utilizing this compound throughout my peds rotation before Christmas, with small kids hacking and coughing constantly, and I was the only person out of the 4 students and 2 residents who did not have any symptoms of a cold during the rotation. Now given, my diet and physical activity far exceeded theirs as well, but I'm betting Vigor didn't hurt. :D

j_neatherlin
03-28-2006, 02:03 PM
so the ORAC score is 5800?

uhockey
03-28-2006, 02:07 PM
so the ORAC score is 5800?

Yessir, purified/standardized using the ORAC+ process.

Twin Peak
03-28-2006, 03:47 PM
Some users have reported increased recovery and a boosted immune system.

Rushi
03-28-2006, 04:13 PM
So how again are these even similar? Where's the fruit extracts in the multi? This fruit extract accounts for the majority of the ORAC rating and thus the anti-ox properties. I recall that fruit extracts only had a half life of 3 or so hours so wouldn't one need more than two caps per day? You might need more like 6 dosings per day to combat oxidants throughout the day.

But then again oxidant activity is at higher times than others so perhaps you can just take the two caps pre workout. But on non workout days I would assume you take them spaced apart so what times are recommended? Take it with breakfast and lunch? Is oxidant activity higher in during the day or at night? Any ideas?

i think JRR was referring to the fruit and vegetable blend that is in there


Mega Men® Antioxidant Fruit and Vegetable Blend 105.00 mg **

Citrus Bioflavonoids **

Carrot Powder **

Papaya Fruit Powder **

Orange Fruit Powder **

Pineapple Fruit Powder **

Pumpkin Seed Meal (Cucurbita pepo) **

Spinach Powder **

Elderberry Fruit Powder **

Bilberry Fruit Powder **

Black Currant Fruit Powder **

Cauliflower Powder **

Saw Palmetto Berry Extract **

Kale Powder **

Brussels Sprouts Powder **

Broccoli Powder **

Apple Fruit Powder **

Kiwi Fruit Powder **

Grape Fruit Powder **

uhockey
03-28-2006, 04:31 PM
i think JRR was referring to the fruit and vegetable blend that is in there

That's fine and dandy, the conc. isn't even close.

Coulaid
03-28-2006, 04:54 PM
I gotta get some in my next bb.com order.

AtomicLee
03-28-2006, 05:00 PM
Looks like a solid product. I can't wait to get in in my arsenal.

Rushi
03-28-2006, 05:13 PM
That's fine and dandy, the conc. isn't even close.

yeah

i'll probably give this stuff a whirl. do you know if vitamin shoppe is going to pick this up?

Twin Peak
03-28-2006, 05:25 PM
As of now, they are not. Feel free to ask for it at your local store, however.

team america
03-28-2006, 05:44 PM
wait so uhockey wats the main diffrenece between noxidant and vigor cuz i was gunna get noxidant but now that vigor is out i might get out if it is more benefical

factotum
03-28-2006, 07:12 PM
Vigor has more fruit extracts and I think that gives it the edge because different fruit extracts have different polyphenols and thus effects. Either one is good so I don't think you can go wrong choosing either product.

I really think DS needs to market this product a bit stronger. I don't think the average person here is aware of the damage that NO products induce and hence the need for a product like this.

While I agree you might not "feel" the effects of this product you should still notice some benefits. As mentioned it should boost your immune system and make you more resistant to getting sick. It also reduces DOMS and thus helps in a speedier recovery. And lastly one thing that I have observed is that I don't get sunburn. A few times I've been caught in the sun without any sunblock but I never got a sunburn though my tan did increase. No redness, tendernessm, inflammation and no peeling at all. If this isn't a sign that it reduces oxidative damage I don't know what is. I could be mistaken and it could be merely coincidental but I highly doubt it.

Kledz
03-28-2006, 08:22 PM
I have been looking foward to this for quite some time :D

qw3r
03-28-2006, 09:01 PM
uhockey would i feel or notice a difference from taking this product or is it just something that you know is good for you but you cant feel it like a multi.

i like to think of these kind of products as condoms: you take it because you know its the right thing to do and when you see people who obviously dont use one, you will be that much happier that you did.

Simon Keller
03-28-2006, 09:12 PM
Have been into anti's for a while now, been using Radox for some time. This will definetly be a future purchase...

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-28-2006, 10:28 PM
i think JRR was referring to the fruit and vegetable blend that is in there
Actually I was referring to this....

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
Vitamin E Acetate


B-Pro Matrix: 500mg Thiamin hcl 10mg, riboflavin 10mg, niacinamide 10mg, pyridoxine hcl 10mg folic acid, 200mcg) 100mg


Considering my multi has all that at larger quantities, I feel like I'd only be getting the fruit/vegetable blend out of the product. Why not add some CoQ10, Selenium, ALA or something else in there instead of the above listed.

Considering I spend $200 per month on supplements, nearly $300 a year on this just doesn't seem worth it to ME.

uhockey
03-29-2006, 02:11 AM
Vigor has more fruit extracts and I think that gives it the edge because different fruit extracts have different polyphenols and thus effects. Either one is good so I don't think you can go wrong choosing either product.

I really think DS needs to market this product a bit stronger. I don't think the average person here is aware of the damage that NO products induce and hence the need for a product like this.

While I agree you might not "feel" the effects of this product you should still notice some benefits. As mentioned it should boost your immune system and make you more resistant to getting sick. It also reduces DOMS and thus helps in a speedier recovery. And lastly one thing that I have observed is that I don't get sunburn. A few times I've been caught in the sun without any sunblock but I never got a sunburn though my tan did increase. No redness, tendernessm, inflammation and no peeling at all. If this isn't a sign that it reduces oxidative damage I don't know what is. I could be mistaken and it could be merely coincidental but I highly doubt it.

We don't always agree, but here we are in 100% agreement. If you can think of a way in which we could/should effectively market this to the world, feel free to offer suggestions, because I absolutely LOVE the concept of Vigor. From a health standpoint, it is the best supplement in the DS aresenal. I find it highly odd that VS has not yet picked it up.

uhockey
03-29-2006, 02:14 AM
Actually I was referring to this....

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)
Vitamin E Acetate


B-Pro Matrix: 500mg Thiamin hcl 10mg, riboflavin 10mg, niacinamide 10mg, pyridoxine hcl 10mg folic acid, 200mcg) 100mg


Considering my multi has all that at larger quantities, I feel like I'd only be getting the fruit/vegetable blend out of the product. Why not add some CoQ10, Selenium, ALA or something else in there instead of the above listed.

Considering I spend $200 per month on supplements, nearly $300 a year on this just doesn't seem worth it to ME.

It's all about synergy, the CoQ10, Selenium, and ALA are all nice antioxidants, but in terms of redox capacity as it relates to the polyphenols present in Vigor, E/C/B are far more beneficial. They're there to protect the Vigor Matrix, since I'm sure MOST people are getting enough E/C/B anyhow from their multi.

I respect your opinion, but coming in here and saying your vitamin contained the exact same thing for cheaper only looks like bashing.

Twin Peak
03-29-2006, 03:49 AM
We don't always agree, but here we are in 100% agreement. If you can think of a way in which we could/should effectively market this to the world, feel free to offer suggestions, because I absolutely LOVE the concept of Vigor. From a health standpoint, it is the best supplement in the DS aresenal. I find it highly odd that VS has not yet picked it up.

They see these types of products (especially from a sports nutrition line) do not sell. If there was a demand, they will carry it.

Lonny
03-29-2006, 06:02 AM
This is definitely that i'll pickup for next winter, hopefully it'll prevent that feeling "a little sick, all the time".

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-29-2006, 06:03 AM
I respect your opinion, but coming in here and saying your vitamin contained the exact same thing for cheaper only looks like bashing.
I apologize for my initial post, and have deleted it as you are correct. My intentions are not to bash.

It's frustrating sometimes as a consumer trying to figure out where to put your money, we all know how that is.

uhockey
03-29-2006, 06:20 AM
I apologize for my initial post, and have deleted it as you are correct. My intentions are not to bash.

It's frustrating sometimes as a consumer trying to figure out where to put your money, we all know how that is.

I absolutely agree.

My advice, to anyone, is to put Vigor in your arsenal for a month and see how it makes you feel. I'm not talking placebo effect "OMG I FEEL AWESOME" the first day one utilizes it, I'm talking a solid month in terms of recovery, feelings of "wellness," and other subjective feelings of feeling healthy.

As we state in the writeup, while DS is primarily targeting the bodybuilding community, this is a supplement that EVERYONE should be looking at. As the FDA continually updates it's guidelines regarding good fat vs. bad fat, good cholesterol vs. bad cholesterol, protein vs. carbs there is one thing that never really changes.......Fresh fruits and vegetables are good for you and should be eaten in abundance. Since many people don't like and/or don't consume nearly enogh, the ideal goal of Vigor is to make up for that discrepancy between recommended and reality. For the bodybuilder or fitness enthusiast, the benefits are beyond obvious. :)

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-29-2006, 06:26 AM
Are there any logs on the product, if so have any of these individuals had symptoms/illnesses of a suppressed immune system? I am curious because I fit into that category and thats one of the reasons Im looking at antioxidant products right now. I have had a cold for 3 weeks now and its really slowing me down:(. If I could see how those with autoimmune disorders reacted to the product, I may take a second look at it.

freakie
03-29-2006, 07:08 AM
Freakie, reread my comment.

Yeah, I'm retarded.

uhockey
03-29-2006, 08:48 AM
Are there any logs on the product, if so have any of these individuals had symptoms/illnesses of a suppressed immune system? I am curious because I fit into that category and thats one of the reasons Im looking at antioxidant products right now. I have had a cold for 3 weeks now and its really slowing me down:(. If I could see how those with autoimmune disorders reacted to the product, I may take a second look at it.

Honestly, no, we don't have logs of any persons with such problems, but all things considering, I'd like to see some. Are there any persons on the board with a diagnosed autoimmune affliction?

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-29-2006, 08:58 AM
Honestly, no, we don't have logs of any persons with such problems, but all things considering, I'd like to see some. Are there any persons on the board with a diagnosed autoimmune affliction?

Ever heard of CVID?(Common Variable Immune Defficiency)

http://www.immunedisease.com/US/patients/IDF/cvid.html

Diagnosed 3 years ago:(

We actually briefly discussed it about 9 months ago:

uhockey
Amnesia in our alibis.


Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
Age: 26
Posts: 7,925
Rep Power: 39942
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRRBadBoy4Life
Ive got an immune disease called CVID (Common Variable Immune Defficeiny) and I get monthly IVIG to help boost certain antibody levels. I dont know if what I get is Immunogobulin or not, but I know it certainly does not supress my immune system.


Very cool, I've honestly never "met" anyone with CVID. What you are receiving via injection is indeed Immunoglobulin, in actuality IgG, at a strong dilution. It most certainly is not suppressing you, but rather keeping you from harm.

uhockey
03-29-2006, 09:19 AM
In that case, I apologize for forgetting your condition......lots of people, both here on bb.com and in my clinicals......I sometimes get lost in the detail. I sent you a PM. :)

uhockey
03-29-2006, 12:36 PM
Yeah, I'm retarded.

Not retarded, probably just tired from all the Cowbell!

factotum
03-29-2006, 07:41 PM
I agree that this product is quite difficult to sell to consumers. The benefits are obvious but the results derived from usage aren't very tangible. This product doesn't illict effects that one can readily notice and the cumulative effect is gradual. It doesn't produce a pump, drop in blood sugar, induce lethargy or any other noticeable effect that would indicate it works. As a consumer it would be difficult to tell if it's working or not. The reason is because this product really doesn't produce effects in the conventional sense but actually prevents or at least minimizes deletrious ones. And because it is a gradual process I doubt anyone will really notice it while on this type of product. Aside from the sunburn effect I doubt there's going to be any way to judge it's effectiveness while on.

But in my experience you will notice the benefits of this product when you come off. Take it for a month or two and it will reduce recovery time, improve immune response and even cognition, none of which you can really feel until you stop using the product and sickness or lethargy tend to set back in.

But many here use NO products as evident by the numerous threads and this should perhaps be the focus for this product. NO can bind with molecular oxygen to form dinitrotrioxide N2O3 or with superoxide O2- to form peroxynitrite ONOO-: both are potent pro-oxidants. Therefore it would seem one would want to avoid increaing NO levels but it does have the benefit of increased pumps. Therefore it would only make sense to take a product like this to offset the damage a NO product can induce. But then again how much damage do NO boosting products actually cause? We don't see people dropping dead, developing cancers or other maladies but then again usage has been relatively short. What years of continual use may cause is yet to be seen.

Either way I commend DS for releasing a product of this nature. It likely won't be a top seller despite it's obvious benefits.

DRP7
03-29-2006, 11:16 PM
Well, I have to say that I can "feel" a good antioxidant working. Just an example: When I take the original Activin OPC 100 mg I actually feel more mental clarity and freshness. And this is no placebo effect: A few months ago, I bought an Antioxidant product from one of the more reputated companies on this board and I excpected this product to work at least as well as Activin, since it contained not only OPC but also blend of other herbal antioxidants. Unfortunately, I couldn't feel anything from it, even when I took a several times higher dose than recommended.
So, there must be something that is even more important than just the formula on paper: I don't know if it is the quality of the raw materials or some loss of effectiveness due to bad capping material or inappropriate storage etc.
I know that DS has a very high reputation concerning quality-control and end-control, they provide CoAs etc., so I am very confident that we are going to see a really good working, well composed product that will stand apart from other "wannabe"-antioxidant products.

uhockey
03-30-2006, 02:53 AM
I agree with you Wander, and Dr.P, if you should try Vigor, please don't hesitate to let us know your thoughts. :)

uhockey
03-30-2006, 03:55 PM
I just wanted to state that due to his unique condition, we've asked JRRBadboy4life to accept 2 bottles of Vigor and detail his subjective experience over the course of 2 months on the product. Thankfully he was willing to accept and can hopefully offer us some real world experience from someone with an immune disorder.

Thanks sir. I (and hopefully others) look forward to your words.

sublimejeh
03-30-2006, 04:19 PM
Uhockey- what would u personally recommend for dosing this?

What time of day? take 1X2 or 2X1? on an empty stomach or with food? Should I avoid taking any supplements at the same time other than stims?

I just recieved a bottle in the mail and after the month is over will possibly be getting more :)

uhockey
03-30-2006, 04:24 PM
I've played with dosing a bit. I DEFINITELY recommend taking one cap post workout......that's a given.

Empty stomach vs. with food doesn't really matter as it's never kicked back on me, but it's always best to take this sort of product with foods for MAX absorption.

The second cap, I'd simply take 12 hours away from the PWO one. If that isnt' possible, make it 8 hours apart, that way you maximize coverage.

I can think of no supplements that would conflict with Vigor

sublimejeh
03-30-2006, 04:29 PM
So how is One cap a few mins before breakfast and the other one postworkout around 6pm

uhockey
03-30-2006, 04:58 PM
Awesome.

sublimejeh
03-30-2006, 05:20 PM
Awesome.
Ok thanks.

this is slightly off topic, but heck, its only one post haha

I also may add gluco. to my lean bulk in a month or two. What would you personally recommend for dosage and timing on a lean bulk.

I read the writeup but it doesnt say much about timing and spacing between meals

uhockey
03-31-2006, 01:58 AM
Ok thanks.

this is slightly off topic, but heck, its only one post haha

I also may add gluco. to my lean bulk in a month or two. What would you personally recommend for dosage and timing on a lean bulk.

I read the writeup but it doesnt say much about timing and spacing between meals

This really isn't the best place since I ALWAYS answer my PMs, but since GXR and Vigor are two of my favorite products (GXR is why I even began talking to Sledge in the first place) I'll go for it.

My thoughts on GXR for lean bulking are pretty simple. DEFINITELY one cap post-workout. You may even bump it to 2 caps PWO if you're a dex/malto kinda lifter.

The second half of the advice varies by budget. If you have money to spend, you really can't go wrong with 3-4 caps daily. One with breakfast, 1-2PWO, and 1 with your other largest carb meal.

For people who really like to rock their stimulant usage, there is also the obvious usage of GXR Pre-workout with a stimulant for further increased efficacy.

The best thing about GXR, in my opinion, is it's variable uses.

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-31-2006, 02:39 AM
I just wanted to state that due to his unique condition, we've asked JRRBadboy4life to accept 2 bottles of Vigor and detail his subjective experience over the course of 2 months on the product. Thankfully he was willing to accept and can hopefully offer us some real world experience from someone with an immune disorder.

Thanks sir. I (and hopefully others) look forward to your words.

No, thank you. I will update my log as often as possible. :)

sublimejeh
03-31-2006, 04:38 AM
This really isn't the best place since I ALWAYS answer my PMs, but since GXR and Vigor are two of my favorite products (GXR is why I even began talking to Sledge in the first place) I'll go for it.

My thoughts on GXR for lean bulking are pretty simple. DEFINITELY one cap post-workout. You may even bump it to 2 caps PWO if you're a dex/malto kinda lifter.

The second half of the advice varies by budget. If you have money to spend, you really can't go wrong with 3-4 caps daily. One with breakfast, 1-2PWO, and 1 with your other largest carb meal.

For people who really like to rock their stimulant usage, there is also the obvious usage of GXR Pre-workout with a stimulant for further increased efficacy.

The best thing about GXR, in my opinion, is it's variable uses.

alright thanks a lot... next time Ill PM you :p

uhockey
03-31-2006, 06:17 AM
No, thank you. I will update my log as often as possible. :)

We were originally skeptical about giving out a product such as this for logging purposes simply because we felt that people would EXPECT to "feel" something, and if they didn't, the product would be bashed. With your situation, however, I didn't feel like it was something we could pass on.

If any other persons are running logs which include Vigor, I'd be quite interested in reading along to know if you experience any notable effects or if Vigor proves to be the Strong, silent type of supplement as expected.

uhockey
04-05-2006, 04:22 PM
JRR received his vigor and should be starting his log soon. :)

40-Yard Dash_2
04-05-2006, 05:21 PM
JRR received his vigor and should be starting his log soon. :)
Cool. Should be very interesting.

BringnIt
04-05-2006, 05:23 PM
Vigor gave me gyno. :(

dwm230000
04-05-2006, 05:25 PM
Vigor gave me gyno. :(

Me too, and I didn't even have to take it. It immediately developed as soon as I looked at the bottle.

40-Yard Dash_2
04-05-2006, 05:27 PM
Vigor gave me gyno. :(



Me too, and I didn't even have to take it. It immediately developed as soon as I looked at the bottle.

Ah ****!

Blap Blaow
04-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Vigor gave me gyno. :(
Are you sure? PM some pics to some random guy with a rep count- they'll diagnose it for you...

BringnIt
04-05-2006, 05:38 PM
It's not visible! But there's a lump!

Blap Blaow
04-05-2006, 05:39 PM
It's not visible! But there's a lump!
no matter, do it anyway. E-qualifications> gyno.

Kledz
04-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Me too, and I didn't even have to take it. It immediately developed as soon as I looked at the bottle.

Lucky! :(

I got it just from reading this thread.

:D

Joel
04-05-2006, 11:28 PM
Exactly what kind of results are the testers expected to experience?

BringnIt
04-05-2006, 11:51 PM
Exactly what kind of results are the testers expected to experience?

Eternal youth?

Also, don't know if you were aware, but there've been several reported cases of gyno. with this supplement.

Joel
04-05-2006, 11:52 PM
Eternal youth?

Also, don't know if you were aware, but there've been several reported cases of gyno. with this supplement.

Whats the deal with DS and gyno ?

Robboe
04-06-2006, 12:18 AM
The nasty man is winding you up, Joel. :)

As a general health product, there is the aspect of potentially improved recovery between workouts. There is also the potential improvements in the general feel-good factor, improvements in skin and hair etc.

Joel
04-06-2006, 12:23 AM
The nasty man is winding you up, Joel. :)

As a general health product, there is the aspect of potentially improved recovery between workouts. There is also the potential improvements in the general feel-good factor, improvements in skin and hair etc.

Sounds like a safe and solid product, good luck

uhockey
04-07-2006, 06:07 AM
For what it's worth, I think bringing the gyno discussing into this thread is total horse****.

VIGOR is a very solid product and while I realize this joking is in relation to that incredibly poorly formulated NHA thread, it is inappropriate none the less.

Vigor is everything it's writeup states and in a person with an immune deficiency such as JRR I'd suspect it to have an overall beneficial effect in terms of everyday feelings of healthfulness.

I don't have time to defend our products currently, but joking or not, poor form.

ZDub212
05-11-2007, 11:43 PM
And another review. Vigor is becoming a staple in my arsenal...here's the review...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=2696481

stealth_swimmer
05-12-2007, 02:14 AM
only bad thing is that it's 24 dollars for a 15 day supply. :(

Will probably start buying some day when I get a job though :)

uhockey
05-12-2007, 02:14 AM
It is unfortunate that more people have not picked up on Vigor's amazing quality. In this sport it seems like people often forget that what LOOKS physically ideal (being lean, vascular, etc) and waht FEELS ideal (heavy lifting, runner's euphoria) is not always ideal in terms of long term health. While a well balanced diet is obviously key, a quality antioxidant can definitely go a long way towards correcting insufficiencies that could be limiting.

uhockey
05-12-2007, 02:15 AM
only bad thing is that it's 24 dollars for a 15 day supply. :(

Will probably start buying some day when I get a job though :)

IMO, unless your diet totally sucks, 1-2 caps a day is all you really need. I use 1 cap Vigor, 2 caps GXR, 1 cap Lean Green, and plenty of dietary fruits and veggies as my daily antioxidant regime.

factotum
05-12-2007, 09:35 AM
IMO, unless your diet totally sucks, 1-2 caps a day is all you really need. I use 1 cap Vigor, 2 caps GXR, 1 cap Lean Green, and plenty of dietary fruits and veggies as my daily antioxidant regime.

Sadly, that is more of the ideal than the norm though. It's sad that people don't truly realize the benefits of anti-ox products and think a multi will suffice. Most people would benefit more from an anti-ox product than purchasing their monthly NO product but hey you gotta feel swole.

ZDub212
05-12-2007, 09:37 AM
Sadly, that is more of the ideal than the norm though. It's sad that people don't truly realize the benefits of anti-ox products and think a multi will suffice. Most people would benefit more from an anti-ox product than purchasing their monthly NO product but hey you gotta feel swole.

Yes...why be healthy when you can be have a supplement induced pump for twice the cost??

uhockey
05-12-2007, 07:18 PM
Yes...why be healthy when you can be have a supplement induced pump for twice the cost??

I dunno......you're the one working for anabolic pump. ;)

Go Vigor!

ZDub212
05-12-2007, 07:21 PM
I dunno......you're the one working for anabolic pump. ;)

Go Vigor!

Ouch! ;)

AP is good for nutrient partioning as well...but this is about Vigor, not USPLabs! :)

drxmn
05-12-2007, 08:35 PM
I cant tell if you guys are joking or hate eachother...:confused:

uhockey
05-12-2007, 08:36 PM
Like Zach, no comment on the company he keeps.

ZDub212
05-12-2007, 08:38 PM
Like Zach, no comment on the company he keeps.

Like Uhockey, much kudos to the company he reps for :)

drxmn
05-12-2007, 09:09 PM
ooooookaaayyy

uhockey
05-13-2007, 02:47 AM
Like Uhockey, much kudos to the company he reps for :)

Fair enough. Glad you like myself and DS. I like them too. :)

Shatter
05-13-2007, 08:11 AM
I doubt you will change your labelling just for me, but I finished my 2 bottles of vigor and re-reading this thread, I was probably dosing it badly. It would be nice if there were slightly more specific dosing instructions on the back.

Just to note, 2 days after I finished Vigor I had my first bad cold in about 3 years. Probably just a coincidence... but I am putting it back in for my next order. :)

I did notice my almost constant case of the sniffles subsided whilst I was suppementing with Vigor. And my "friend" who likes to drink every now and then, felt a far greater sense of vitality after a big night. ;)

ZDub212
05-13-2007, 08:40 AM
Fair enough. Glad you like myself and DS. I like them too. :)

:)


I doubt you will change your labelling just for me, but I finished my 2 bottles of vigor and re-reading this thread, I was probably dosing it badly. It would be nice if there were slightly more specific dosing instructions on the back.

Just to note, 2 days after I finished Vigor I had my first bad cold in about 3 years. Probably just a coincidence... but I am putting it back in for my next order. :)

I did notice my almost constant case of the sniffles subsided whilst I was suppementing with Vigor. And my "friend" who likes to drink every now and then, felt a far greater sense of vitality after a big night. ;)

How were you dosing it?

Shatter
05-13-2007, 08:45 AM
Generally one at night and one in the morning. But sometimes I would just take two at night, or two whenever it suited me. I didn't put a great amount of thought in to the dosing, to be completely honest. I just read the back and it said, take 2 daily. Heh.

uhockey
05-13-2007, 04:22 PM
Taking 2 daily is fine....doesn't REALLY matter when.

EMISGOD
05-13-2007, 04:24 PM
Taking 2 daily is fine....doesn't REALLY matter when.

I take mine about 30 minutes before bed, actually...

TheUnlikelyToad
05-13-2007, 04:29 PM
I take mine Pre-Sex.

thicketman
05-13-2007, 04:54 PM
I take mine Pre-Sex.

Speaking of pre-sex, 3.2g of beta-alanine is niiiice...

thicketman
05-13-2007, 04:56 PM
I dunno......you're the one working for anabolic pump. ;)

Go Vigor!


Evidently my body chemistry is different than everyone else on these boards, but Glucophase XR worked better for me.

uhockey
05-13-2007, 05:39 PM
I take mine Pre-Sex.

So you've never taken Vigor? Hmmm. Perhaps consider changing dosing protocol.

TheUnlikelyToad
05-13-2007, 05:41 PM
So you've never taken Vigor? Hmmm. Perhaps consider changing dosing protocol.

huh?

cxm
05-13-2007, 05:41 PM
So you've never taken Vigor? Hmmm. Perhaps consider changing dosing protocol.

bahahahhaha :D

uhockey
05-13-2007, 05:43 PM
I take mine Pre-Sex.


So you've never taken Vigor? Hmmm. Perhaps consider changing dosing protocol.


huh?


bahahahhaha :D

CXM gets my jokes. See, I am funny!!

Shatter
05-13-2007, 09:23 PM
So you've never taken Vigor? Hmmm. Perhaps consider changing dosing protocol.

Hahahahah.

drxmn
05-13-2007, 09:28 PM
So you've never taken Vigor? Hmmm. Perhaps consider changing dosing protocol.


huh?

haahha owned.

its extra funny because he doesnt get it!

uhockey
05-14-2007, 03:06 AM
It was a total joke, clearly, as Jordan is actually a really cool guy and his girlfriend seems very nice....but the "huh?" did make it hilarious.

Shatter
05-14-2007, 04:22 AM
uhockey,

I am doing a cut and bulk, then I've decided I want a couple of months of maintenance, just to let my joints rest and let my body recover. I am going to run a few bottles of vigor again (taken a break from running it at the moment, as I don't have the funds). In your opinion, what would be the best products to stack with it for a health/recovery stack?

FYI, I use NOW Adam as my multi.

uhockey
05-14-2007, 05:59 AM
Multivitamin
Vigor
Glucophase (1-2 caps daily)
Lean Green
Diet high in fibrous veggies and fruits

Consider adding a greens supplement if you have the cash (too pricey for my blood)

Shatter
05-14-2007, 08:14 AM
Multivitamin
Vigor
Glucophase (1-2 caps daily)
Lean Green
Diet high in fibrous veggies and fruits

Consider adding a greens supplement if you have the cash (too pricey for my blood)

Good, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking at stacking. Thanks.

uhockey
05-14-2007, 08:47 AM
Good, that's pretty much exactly what I was looking at stacking. Thanks.

You won't regret it.

Kledz
05-14-2007, 08:58 AM
Consider adding a greens supplement if you have the cash (too pricey for my blood)

I tried this and didnt really "feel" a drastic difference between the addition of greens and Vigor alone.

Vigor alone on the other hand gives me a hearty sense of well being, and the immune benefits are well worth the monthly price in my opinion.

uhockey
05-14-2007, 10:08 AM
I tried this and didnt really "feel" a drastic difference between the addition of greens and Vigor alone.

Vigor alone on the other hand gives me a hearty sense of well being, and the immune benefits are well worth the monthly price in my opinion.

Glad to hear. Actually, very glad to hear.

Shatter
05-16-2007, 06:49 PM
You won't regret it.

Once I've finished my run of x-factor (about 50 more days), the above plus garlic, PAL's Reset (I am planning on cutting stims out, and I am trying to kill my incredibly high tolerance to caffiene) and some Vit C will be my health stack.

Will be awhile off but will report how it all works out. I already know Vigor is the goods, curious to see how the Glucophase works out.

Out of curiousity, will anti-oxidants enhance skin complexion? It's not a particularly big deal to me, but it would be nice for the Aussie summer.

uhockey
05-16-2007, 07:31 PM
Theoretically, yes.

cxm
05-16-2007, 08:11 PM
muahahaha I just made a trade, 3 Primal N2O for 3 Vigor's! :D

uhockey
05-17-2007, 02:43 AM
muahahaha I just made a trade, 3 Primal N2O for 3 Vigor's! :D

The Winner is you!

Robboe
05-17-2007, 02:51 AM
Once I've finished my run of x-factor (about 50 more days), the above plus garlic, PAL's Reset (I am planning on cutting stims out, and I am trying to kill my incredibly high tolerance to caffiene) and some Vit C will be my health stack.

Will be awhile off but will report how it all works out. I already know Vigor is the goods, curious to see how the Glucophase works out.

Out of curiousity, will anti-oxidants enhance skin complexion? It's not a particularly big deal to me, but it would be nice for the Aussie summer.

It certainly has for me. I typically have a spotty back, but its been clear for months now.

Shatter
05-20-2007, 11:27 AM
It certainly has for me. I typically have a spotty back, but its been clear for months now.


Theoretically, yes.

Awesome, thanks.

I'd rep you if it meant anything :)

cxm
05-20-2007, 11:29 AM
The Winner is you!

You better believe it, I love antioxidants. :)

uhockey
05-21-2007, 02:24 AM
You better believe it, I love antioxidants. :)

You're an intelligent forum member, I'd expect no less.

Kate~
05-21-2007, 02:43 AM
Ordering this today!

uhockey
05-21-2007, 02:49 AM
Awesome. Let us know what you think!

Estopell
08-03-2007, 08:15 PM
UH OH!!!!!!


http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pfac/vigor.html

factotum
08-03-2007, 09:00 PM
UH OH!!!!!!


http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pfac/vigor.html

Nice! TP must be mulling over all his litigation options. :)