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RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:12 PM
Hi All,
I have been reading alot about the new CL product, Purple Wrath, which looks like a great product, and I wanted to possibly do some sort of head to head Test (with TESTERS) comparing Purple Wrath with our Nutrabolics BCAA/EAA product, Growth Factor:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/nbol/growth.html

I think this would be a great comparison since Growth Factor contains a combined 11.5 grams of BCAA's/EAA's (in Esterified form), whereas Purple Wrath contains 7.0 grams of BCAA's/EAAS but also contains various endurance boosters.

Have Purple Wrath testers already been chosen, and if so, if they could PM me I would like for them to test Growth Factor too.

Does that work for all?

Thank you.

wantstobeinshap
03-24-2006, 02:21 PM
Hi All,
I have been reading alot about the new CL product, Purple Wrath, which looks like a great product, and I wanted to possibly do some sort of head to head Test (with TESTERS) comparing Purple Wrath with our Nutrabolics BCAA/EAA product, Growth Factor:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/nbol/growth.html

I think this would be a great comparison since Growth Factor contains a combined 11.5 grams of BCAA's/EAA's (in Esterified form), whereas Purple Wrath contains 7.0 grams of BCAA's/EAAS but also contains various endurance boosters.

Have Purple Wrath testers already been chosen, and if so, if they could PM me I would like for them to test Growth Factor too.

Does that work for all?

Thank you.

You'd probably have to wait until the logs are finished though...sounds interesting!

Tarkana
03-24-2006, 02:22 PM
looking at price (assuming PW is $50) and bcaa content, PW would win easily, and thats just when comparing bcaa content and neglecting that pw has other ingredients too. im no CL pimp, i don't even use their products, but they definately won the numbers game. so it'll really take something good to make up for that.

storm shadow
03-24-2006, 02:22 PM
Yeah I would be happy to test it after I'm done testing PW. It would be a while though untill you got the comparisons you wanted.

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-24-2006, 02:27 PM
Hey Rodney has my tub of Isobolic shipped yet? The one you pmmed me to do a review on?

"I have chosen you to review our protein on the BB.com forum. Please email me at rodney@nutrabolics.com with your appropriate mailing info, "


In case you forgot:D

jkeithc82
03-24-2006, 02:29 PM
Just my opinion, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your company, but I think posing a direct comparison challenge to a new product (one that hasn't even come out) is a little disrespectful. If you want to have testers for your stuff that's fine, but directly positioning yours against theirs seems a little shaddy.

Just my opinion :cool:

NukeDukem
03-24-2006, 02:29 PM
looking at price (assuming PW is $50) and bcaa content, PW would win easily, and thats just when comparing bcaa content and neglecting that pw has other ingredients too. im no CL pimp, i don't even use their products, but they definately won the numbers game. so it'll really take something good to make up for that.

Price will definately be the determining factor for me in this market. I really doubt CL's L-Valine is any better than Nutrabolics' L-Valine, or vice versa. Whoever has a cheaper amino product wins.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:30 PM
Hey Rodney has my tub of Isobolic shipped yet? The one you pmmed me to do a review on?

"I have chosen you to review our protein on the BB.com forum. Please email me at rodney@nutrabolics.com with your appropriate mailing info, "


In case you forgot:D

All were shipped...I didnt forget!
I think Uhockey was the first to receive IsoBolic yesterday...you should get yours any day!

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:31 PM
Just my opinion, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your company, but I think posing a direct comparison challenge to a new product (one that hasn't even come out) is a little disrespectful. If you want to have testers for your stuff that's fine, but directly positioning yours against theirs seems a little shaddy.

Just my opinion :cool:

I am sorry you think that, but our product is fairly new, and Purple Wrath is the closest product to ours....a BCAA/EAA combo product.
I dont see this being shady at all...

JRRBadBoy4Life
03-24-2006, 02:35 PM
All were shipped...I didnt forget!
I think Uhockey was the first to receive IsoBolic yesterday...you should get yours any day!
Thanks, I was getting worried the UPS guy stole it:p

Twin Peak
03-24-2006, 02:37 PM
This is going to get interesting.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:38 PM
looking at price (assuming PW is $50) and bcaa content, PW would win easily, and thats just when comparing bcaa content and neglecting that pw has other ingredients too. im no CL pimp, i don't even use their products, but they definately won the numbers game. so it'll really take something good to make up for that.

Im not sure about your comparison...

Purple Wrath has 630 total grams of BCAA/EAA's in a complete bottle (90 servings X 7 grams)

Growth Factor has 345 total grams of BCAA/EAA's in a complete bottle (30 servings X 11.5 grams)

Purple Wrath has an SRP of $99.99 (I am guessing will sell for $60?)

Growth Factor has an SRP of $44.95 (sells on bb.com for $29.99)


This is as even a comparison as you can get.
The main determining factors will be what is better:
The extra endurance compounds in Purple Wrath or the Esterification of amino's used in Growth Factor?

naturalguy
03-24-2006, 02:41 PM
I am curious as to what the companies are expecting out of these tests. It's not like EAA's are new supplements. There is plenty of feedback on them already.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:42 PM
Price will definately be the determining factor for me in this market. I really doubt CL's L-Valine is any better than Nutrabolics' L-Valine, or vice versa. Whoever has a cheaper amino product wins.

The main determing factor when comparing these 2 products is:
Does Esterification result in better results, or do extra ingredients result in better results.
Because with regards to the $$$/aminos, both products will cost you the same.

Bloute
03-24-2006, 02:44 PM
Good comparison ! Should be really interesting.

heavyduty
03-24-2006, 02:44 PM
Im currently using xtend and I'd love to test Growth Factor too.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:45 PM
I am curious as to what the companies are expecting out of these tests. It's not like EAA's are new supplements. There is plenty of feedback on them already.

BCAA's are not new....EAA's are not new....but really, there are only a handful of BCAA/EAA products on the market, with high enough dosages to actually work. Both of these products ARE.
What should you notice: accelerated muscular recovery which will trigger anabolism, repair and growth.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 02:49 PM
Im not sure about your comparison...

Purple Wrath has 630 total grams of BCAA/EAA's in a complete bottle (90 servings X 7 grams)

Growth Factor has 345 total grams of BCAA/EAA's in a complete bottle (30 servings X 11.5 grams)

Purple Wrath has an SRP of $99.99 (I am guessing will sell for $60?)

Growth Factor has an SRP of $44.95 (sells on bb.com for $29.99)


This is as even a comparison as you can get.
The main determining factors will be what is better:
The extra endurance compounds in Purple Wrath or the Esterification of amino's used in Growth Factor?its really not even close price wise.

purple wraath will be 50 dollars on bb.com, growth factor is 30 dollars.

Growth Factor has 345 grams of EAA which is $0.0869/gram
Purple Wraath has 630 grams of EAA which is $0.0793/gram

plus you get 230 grams of the more expensive support ingredients, so its NOT even close to comparable.

also, you are missing arginine.

I also agree with jkeith here. seems like you are trying to ride on the pre-release popularity of our product.

why don’t you try to do your own promotions instead of riding along on ours. your product has been out for months, why didn’t you follow through with testers the first time? only once ours was ready do you decide to do it? seems too convenient :) (no offense, I am just taken aback by your post)

Tarkana
03-24-2006, 02:49 PM
The main determing factor when comparing these 2 products is:
Does Esterification result in better results, or do extra ingredients result in better results.
Because with regards to the $$$/aminos, both products will cost you the same.
i'm afraid that's not entirely true. (note: this is all based on PW costing no more than $50, and will be untrue if this is not the case)
11.5g/serving*30=345g, $30/354= 8.7cents per gram for growth factor
7g/serving*90=630g, $50/630= 7/9 cents per gram for purple wraath

then there are also 2 other factor to cinsider: 1)PW has other helpfull ingredients that growth factor doesn't, and it still costs less for the eaa's alone. 2) the esterification process make the molecules heavier, so what seems like 11.5g of eaa/serving is actually less since much of that weight is the ethyl ester, and the benefit of esterification on FFAA's is HIGHLY debateable and few consider it worth the cost.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:57 PM
its really not even close price wise.

purple wraath will be 50 dollars on bb.com, growth factor is 30 dollars.

Growth Factor has 345 grams of EAA which is $0.0869/gram
Purple Wraath has 630 grams of EAA which is $0.0793/gram

plus you get 230 grams of the more expensive support ingredients, so its NOT even close to comparable.

also, you are missing arginine.

I also agree with jkeith here. seems like you are trying to ride on the pre-release popularity of our product.

why don’t you try to do your own promotions instead of riding along on ours. your product has been out for months, why didn’t you follow through with testers the first time? only once ours was ready do you decide to do it? seems too convenient :) (no offense, I am just taken aback by your post)

I would hardly call $0.0869/gram vs. $0.0793 "not even close".
I am not talking negatively about your product - I would just like to add a twist to the whole testing method.
Maybe add someone who has used Universal's EAA stack, and MRM's BCAA+ product, but the reason yours was chosed was because it seemed closest to ours.
You are right that you have more ingredients in yours then ours, but every single amino in our formula is esterified, which yours is not.
Your company obviously knows the costs involved in esterification since you used esterification yourself in some of your products.

NukeDukem
03-24-2006, 02:57 PM
In all honesty thats not too big of a difference in the cost per serving between the two. Or cost per gram, whatever.

Its like trying to choose between the two bottles of gatorade at Wal-mart, one is 2.9cents per ounce and the other is 3.1cents per ounce. You ask yourself, do you really give a **** about that small of a difference? :)

Altho (Im about to get out of here so maybe someone else could) factoring in the price of Citrulline Malate (take the amount in PW and compare it to what bulk from BN or Giant costs) probably makes a bigger difference.

deserusan
03-24-2006, 02:58 PM
I am curious as to what the companies are expecting out of these tests. It's not like EAA's are new supplements. There is plenty of feedback on them already.

I get mine from them there egg whites.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 02:59 PM
In all honesty thats not too big of a difference in the cost per serving between the two. Or cost per gram, whatever.

Its like trying to choose between the two bottles of gatorade at Wal-mart, one is 2.9cents per ounce and the other is 3.1cents per ounce. You ask yourself, do you really give a **** about that small of a difference? :)

Altho (Im about to get out of here so maybe someone else could) factoring in the price of Citrulline Malate (take the amount in PW and compare it to what bulk from BN or Giant costs) probably makes a bigger difference.

You are exactly correct.
I think if we are going to get super technical on the exact pricing comparison someone would have to cost out the raw pricing on the CL-support ingredients, and then cost out the additional costs of esterified aminos vs. non-esterified aminos.

Skigazzi
03-24-2006, 03:00 PM
Looks like we are back to are e-esters better than normal Bcaas?


FWIW, I see nothing wrong with Rodney's offer, if one company is going to hype the market and draw attention away from exisiting products, he derserves the right to respond in kind.

And it would be an interesting comparison.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:00 PM
I would hardly call $0.0869/gram vs. $0.0793 "not even close".
I am not talking negatively about your product - I would just like to add a twist to the whole testing method.
Maybe add someone who has used Universal's EAA stack, and MRM's BCAA+ product, but the reason yours was chosed was because it seemed closest to ours.
You are right that you have more ingredients in yours then ours, but every single amino in our formula is esterified, which yours is not.
Your company obviously knows the costs involved in esterification since you used esterification yourself in some of your products.
dollar wise it may not seem close on a gram basis, but that is $10 extra to buy growth factor (2 bottles versus 1 purple wraath to get the same number of EAA), plus you get the 230 grams of beta alanine, citrulline malate, etc. from ours for free in this example.

also, WHERE IS YOUR ARGININE?

italionstallion
03-24-2006, 03:02 PM
Looks like we are back to are e-esters better than normal Bcaas?


FWIW, I see nothing wrong with Rodney's offer, if one company is going to hype the market and draw attention away from exisiting products, he derserves the right to respond in kind.

And it would be an interesting comparison.

I completely agree.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:02 PM
You are exactly correct.
I think if we are going to get super technical on the exact pricing comparison someone would have to cost out the raw pricing on the CL-support ingredients, and then cost out the additional costs of esterified aminos vs. non-esterified aminos.
the studies use arginine in them, does your EAA formula follow any clinicals?

NukeDukem
03-24-2006, 03:02 PM
I get mine from them there egg whites.

Ronnie uses dat dere eggology ( http://www.eggology.com/ )

NukeDukem
03-24-2006, 03:04 PM
Can someone briefly explain why arginine is neccesary in a BCAA/EAA product other than for endurance/pre workout gimmick? Is the actual nutritional goodness of the aminos effected by arginine?

heavyduty
03-24-2006, 03:04 PM
the studies use arginine in them, does your EAA formula follow any clinicals?

CATFIGHT AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

jkeithc82
03-24-2006, 03:04 PM
I completely agree.

Timing is just a little suspect, that's all. :cool:

warriors
03-24-2006, 03:05 PM
If you are really wanting to compare esterified BCAA/EAA's to un-esterified BCAA/EAA's than i could help out with that Rodney. Ive tried Xtend, Bulk BCAA's, Universal's Nitro, and MRM's BCAA+G.

Id be more than happy to compare Growth Factor to all those products...

Tarkana
03-24-2006, 03:05 PM
sure, .7cents doesn't seem like a lot, but that's per gram. by comparison, it's a 10% difference. not a whole lot but it can add up. Nuke, about the citruline, PW has, i assume, about 70 grams of citrulline in the whole tub (assuming 830mg/serving), which would cost almost $10 in bulk. again, i am neither affiliated nor do i use any products from either company, but based on the ingredients and numbers, i would consider PW the clear victor.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:05 PM
dollar wise it may not seem close on a gram basis, but that is $10 extra to buy growth factor (2 bottles versus 1 purple wraath to get the same number of EAA), plus you get the 230 grams of beta alanine, citrulline malate, etc. from ours for free in this example.

also, WHERE IS YOUR ARGININE?

I am not sure why you are taking so offense to this posting...I have not put down your product at all, nor have I asked you "WHERE IS YOUR ESTERIFICATION?"

But, now that I see that you mis-list L-Arginine under your EAA complex, that means you don't even get 7.0 grams of BCAA's/EAA's in Purple Wrath, you get less.

The only way to find out if Growth Factor is $10 better is to do the testing...wouldn't you agree?

jkeithc82
03-24-2006, 03:06 PM
I am not sure why you are taking so offense to this posting...I have not put down your product at all, nor have I asked you "WHERE IS YOUR ESTERIFICATION?"


What is the reasoning behind esterfying amino acids anyway? :confused:

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:08 PM
the studies use arginine in them, does your EAA formula follow any clinicals?

What studies are you talking about?!
Humans must include adequate amounts of 9 essential amino acids in their diet which cannot be synthesized from other precursors.
These EAA's are
Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Valine

warriors
03-24-2006, 03:08 PM
What is the reasoning behind esterfying amino acids anyway? :confused:


I really dont know either. There has been numerous studies and feedback showing that reg. BCAA's/EAA's work. Marketing gimmick is all i can say :D

heavyduty
03-24-2006, 03:10 PM
What studies are you talking about?!
Humans must include adequate amounts of 9 essential amino acids in their diet which cannot be synthesized from other precursors.
These EAA's are
Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Valine

"YOU WON'T HIT EM" LOLOL

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:10 PM
Can someone briefly explain why arginine is neccesary in a BCAA/EAA product other than for endurance/pre workout gimmick? Is the actual nutritional goodness of the aminos effected by arginine?
its an EAA and is used in the major studies.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:10 PM
Timing is just a little suspect, that's all. :cool:

How so?
I just got back on the forum. And this product got released approximately one month ago!
If anything is suspect it is undermining comments from competitor reps.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:12 PM
If you are really wanting to compare esterified BCAA/EAA's to un-esterified BCAA/EAA's than i could help out with that Rodney. Ive tried Xtend, Bulk BCAA's, Universal's Nitro, and MRM's BCAA+G.

Id be more than happy to compare Growth Factor to all those products...

I forgot about ICE. That is definitely a top-level product, and probably the pioneer in this advanced amino category.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:13 PM
I am not sure why you are taking so offense to this posting...I have not put down your product at all, nor have I asked you "WHERE IS YOUR ESTERIFICATION?"

But, now that I see that you mis-list L-Arginine under your EAA complex, that means you don't even get 7.0 grams of BCAA's/EAA's in Purple Wrath, you get less.

The only way to find out if Growth Factor is $10 better is to do the testing...wouldn't you agree?
arginine is an essential amino and is used in the studies.

C. Griswald
03-24-2006, 03:13 PM
CL gets my money either way

TE
03-24-2006, 03:13 PM
Looks like we are back to are e-esters better than normal Bcaas?


FWIW, I see nothing wrong with Rodney's offer, if one company is going to hype the market and draw attention away from exisiting products, he derserves the right to respond in kind.

And it would be an interesting comparison.
I agree. CL (or any company for that matter) doesn't own the patent for HYPE.

But comparing bcaa's/eaa's?? Come on now, I doubt the difference will be more than minute going either way.

When buying these, I look for taste/tolerability/price.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:13 PM
its an EAA and is used in the major studies.

Please post which studies you are talking about.

jkeithc82
03-24-2006, 03:15 PM
How so?
I just got back on the forum. And this product got released approximately one month ago!
If anything is suspect it is undermining comments from competitor reps.

We don't produce an EAA product, so I guess that leaves me out. Why not announce this test right after the Arnold? why announce it not only as CL's product is about to be released, but make a thread directly positioning your product against theirs? CL didn't announce PW to be directly compared to Growth Factor, which was released earlier.

deserusan
03-24-2006, 03:15 PM
........get's his scambled egg whites and popcorn for the show :)

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:15 PM
What studies are you talking about?!
Humans must include adequate amounts of 9 essential amino acids in their diet which cannot be synthesized from other precursors.
These EAA's are
Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Valine
sorry to tell you but there are 10:

Phenylalanine
Valine
Tryptophan

Threonine
Isoleucine
Methionine

Histidine
Arginine
Lysine
Leucine

but EAA product dont use tryptophan for a few reasons including the fact that they arent lsited in the studies as being used.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:17 PM
arginine is an essential amino and is used in the studies.

I am not sure which studies you are talking about because although arginine is considered an essential amino acid, this is true only during the juvenile period in humans. Arginine is actually a complex amino acid.

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:19 PM
If you are really wanting to compare esterified BCAA/EAA's to un-esterified BCAA/EAA's than i could help out with that Rodney. Ive tried Xtend, Bulk BCAA's, Universal's Nitro, and MRM's BCAA+G.

Id be more than happy to compare Growth Factor to all those products...

^^^^
If growth factor includes glutamine.. the above comparison would be the way to go :)

Good luck with it.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:19 PM
I am not sure which studies you are talking about because although arginine is considered an essential amino acid, this is true only during the juvenile period in humans. Arginine is actually a complex amino acid.
correct, but the studies use it.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:20 PM
you know what, do the testing if you like. I would like to see the results :)

Scivation
03-24-2006, 03:20 PM
why don’t you try to do your own promotions instead of riding along on ours. your product has been out for months, why didn’t you follow through with testers the first time? only once ours was ready do you decide to do it? seems too convenient :) (no offense, I am just taken aback by your post)

I can see where you'd be confused with it. Debate is cool, but the callout would have taken me aback too.

With that said, let's posedown!

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:20 PM
correct, but the studies use it.

In post 48 you say it is essential, but now you say I am correct.
Which studies are you talking about??

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:21 PM
In post 48 you say it is essential, but now you say I am correct.
Which studies are you talking about??
you are correct that it is essential to juveniles, but check the studies, they use it, which is what really matters.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:21 PM
you know what, do the testing if you like. I would like to see the results :)

We will be doing the testing...nothing was changing that.
I am just curious which studies you are talking about that classify Arginine as Essential, because Arginine is non-essential.

deserusan
03-24-2006, 03:21 PM
I can see where you'd be confused with it. Debate is cool, but the callout would have taken me aback too.

With that said, let's posedown!

have some of my popcorn and scrambled egg whites...........

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:22 PM
let's posedown!

Controlled Labs John Lee

vs.

All the NutraBolics models !!!!

:p

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:23 PM
you are correct that it is essential to juveniles, but check the studies, they use it, which is what really matters.

There are plenty studies on BCAA's, EAA's, and Arginine.
Which study are you talking about? Please fill me in.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:24 PM
Controlled Labs John Lee

vs.

All the NutraBolics models !!!!

:p

Even if your guy mega-dosed on Growth Factor, he still couldn't touch our models!

Scivation
03-24-2006, 03:24 PM
Controlled Labs John Lee

vs.

All the NutraBolics models !!!!

:p

Well, Controlled Labs can go hire some strippers too and it's be real interesting!

I'm in California if you need me to source some strippers.

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:25 PM
Arginine is classified as a semi-essential or conditionally essential amino acid. This means that under normal circumstances the body can synthesize sufficient L-arginine to meet physiological demands. There are, however, conditions where the body cannot. L-arginine is essential for young children and for those with certain rare genetic disorders in which synthesis of the amino acid is impaired. Some stress conditions that put an increased demand on the body for the synthesis of L-arginine include trauma (including surgical trauma), sepsis and burns. Under these conditions, L-arginine becomes essential, and it is then very important to ensure adequate dietary intake of the amino acid to meet the increased physiological demands created by these situations.

L-arginine, even when it is not an essential amino acid as defined above, is a vital one. In addition to participating in protein synthesis, it plays a number of other roles in the body. These include the detoxification of ammonia formed during the nitrogen catabolism of amino acids via the formation of urea. In addition, L-arginine is a precursor in the formation of nitric oxide, creatine, polyamines, L-glutamate, L-proline, agmatin (a possible neurotransmitter in the brain) and the arginine-containing tetrapeptide tuftsin, believed to be an immunomodulator. L-arginine is a glycogenic amino acid; it can be converted to D-glucose and glycogen if needed by the body or it can be catabolized to produce biological energy.

Great discussion

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:26 PM
Well, Controlled Labs can go hire some strippers too and it's be real interesting!

I'm in California if you need me to source some strippers.

Our models arent strippers..they are athletes.
I am off to Anaheim tonight...maybe we can source some together.

Hope all is well, Marc.

Scivation
03-24-2006, 03:26 PM
Even if your guy mega-dosed on Growth Factor, he still couldn't touch our models!

Have you ever seen John Lee is a wig?

He is much sexier than all of those paid booth workers.

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:27 PM
you know what, do the testing if you like. I would like to see the results :)

Agreed.. it should make for interesting discussion... and the more testing / feedback the better.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:27 PM
Great discussion

That is a good discussion, but once again, it deals with juveniles, like I stated.
Arginine, though, is a great compound, and a great addition to your product.

Scivation
03-24-2006, 03:27 PM
Our models arent strippers..they are athletes.
I am off to Anaheim tonight...maybe we can source some together.

Hope all is well, Marc.

Are you saying strippers aren't athletes?

Bigot.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:27 PM
There are plenty studies on BCAA's, EAA's, and Arginine.
Which study are you talking about? Please fill me in.
read this about the essentials, including arginine:

http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/amino-acid-metabolism.html

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:29 PM
read this about the essentials, including arginine:

http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/amino-acid-metabolism.html

Again, it pertains to juveniles.
I will take nothing away from your product...it is a great product...as is our Growth Factor, which is why I too am curious as who gets better results from which!

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:30 PM
also:
http://www.biology.arizona.edu/biochemistry/problem_sets/aa/aa.html

Essential amino acids
Humans can produce 10 of the 20 amino acids. The others must be supplied in the food. Failure to obtain enough of even 1 of the 10 essential amino acids, those that we cannot make, results in degradation of the body's proteins—muscle and so forth—to obtain the one amino acid that is needed. Unlike fat and starch, the human body does not store excess amino acids for later use—the amino acids must be in the food every day.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:32 PM
Again, it pertains to juveniles.
I will take nothing away from your product...it is a great product...as is our Growth Factor, which is why I too am curious as who gets better results from which!
it says nothing about juveniles in here.

Scivation
03-24-2006, 03:33 PM
it says nothing about juveniles in here.

Avoid juvenile strippers at all costs.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:34 PM
also:
http://www.biology.arizona.edu/biochemistry/problem_sets/aa/aa.html

Essential amino acids
Humans can produce 10 of the 20 amino acids. The others must be supplied in the food. Failure to obtain enough of even 1 of the 10 essential amino acids, those that we cannot make, results in degradation of the body's proteins—muscle and so forth—to obtain the one amino acid that is needed. Unlike fat and starch, the human body does not store excess amino acids for later use—the amino acids must be in the food every day.

Tank,
Are you reading these before you post them? It clearly states Arginine is required for the young, but not for adults.
Our product is intended for ADULTS....as I am sure is yours.

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:35 PM
Avoid juvenile strippers at all costs.
ill try, thanks for the tip :)

john lee likes to hang out at high school campuses though :D (I hope john sees that, ahah)

Twin Peak
03-24-2006, 03:35 PM
This is going to get interesting.

Told ya.

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:35 PM
Avoid juvenile strippers at all costs.

Too late...

What's new Marc? What hotel you staying at in Anaheim?

nni
03-24-2006, 03:37 PM
cl crew, forgive me if this is not the place, but considering the amount of grief you guys have received in tester and faq threads, maybe this discussion shouldnt be carried out here. after all the new "rule" was instated to more or less prevent the situation from happening.

again ignore me if i am out of line, but you guys wouldnt appreciate this in your thread, even though this thread was started will less than honorable intentions.

that is all :)

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:38 PM
Well, Controlled Labs can go hire some strippers too and it's be real interesting!

We don't hire strippers... they come free

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:39 PM
Tank,
Are you reading these before you post them? It clearly states Arginine is required for the young, but not for adults.
Our product is intended for ADULTS....as I am sure is yours.

Lippincott's Biochemistry 3rd edition page 265 states:

"Two amino acids- histidine and arginnie- are generally classified as non-essential. however, their normal concentrations are limited and during periods of tissue growth (for example in children or in individuals recovering from wasting diseases), histidine and arignine need to be supplemented in the diet."


so those wanting to grow their tissues (ie. muscles) these two aminos are essential. :)

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:39 PM
cl crew, forgive me if this is not the place, but considering the amount of grief you guys have received in tester and faq threads, maybe this discussion shouldnt be carried out here. after all the new "rule" was instated to more or less prevent the situation from happening.

again ignore me if i am out of line, but you guys wouldnt appreciate this in your thread, even though this thread was started will less than honorable intentions.

that is all :)

Not sure if you have a problem with my posts, but our product is involved.. we have every reason to join the discussion.

Thanks :)

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:40 PM
cl crew, forgive me if this is not the place, but considering the amount of grief you guys have received in tester and faq threads, maybe this discussion shouldnt be carried out here. after all the new "rule" was instated to more or less prevent the situation from happening.

again ignore me if i am out of line, but you guys wouldnt appreciate this in your thread, even though this thread was started will less than honorable intentions.

that is all :)
you are correct, I am done here. :)

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:40 PM
cl crew, forgive me if this is not the place, but considering the amount of grief you guys have received in tester and faq threads, maybe this discussion shouldnt be carried out here. after all the new "rule" was instated to more or less prevent the situation from happening.

again ignore me if i am out of line, but you guys wouldnt appreciate this in your thread, even though this thread was started will less than honorable intentions.

that is all :)

Not sure if you have a problem with my posts, but our product is involved.. we have every reason to join the discussion.

Personally, I look forward to the feedback / results

Carry on.. I'm done and I'll standby for the comparisons :)

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:42 PM
Lippincott's Biochemistry 3rd edition page 265 states:

"Two amino acids- histidine and arginnie- are generally classified as non-essential. however, their normal concentrations are limited and during periods of tissue growth (for example in children or in individuals recovering from wasting diseases), histidine and arignine need to be supplemented in the diet."


so those wanting to grow their tissues (ie. muscles) these two aminos are essential. :)

Once again...THIS TALKS ABOUT ARGININE BEING NON-ESSENTIAL except for special occasions, like infant child growth!

You are the one who brought up Arginine, not me!
I am just the one who pointed out that the reason it is not in our Growth Factor EAA/BCAA product is because it is neither an EAA or a BCAA!

Personally, I find that when people buy a BCAA/EAA product they want to pay for just that...BCAA's and EAA's....

nni
03-24-2006, 03:44 PM
Not sure if you have a problem with my posts, but our product is involved.. we have every reason to join the discussion.

Personally, I look forward to the feedback / results

Carry on.. I'm done and I'll standby for the comparisons :)

check yer pm's. ;)

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 03:46 PM
Once again...THIS TALKS ABOUT ARGININE BEING NON-ESSENTIAL except for special occasions, like infant child growth!

You are the one who brought up Arginine, not me!
I am just the one who pointed out that the reason it is not in our Growth Factor EAA/BCAA product is because it is neither an EAA or a BCAA!

Personally, I find that when people buy a BCAA/EAA product they want to pay for just that...BCAA's and EAA's....
since you addressed my post, one last post in this thread.

the studies (I will not give you the names since our formula is based off of some of them) use arginine and they use it because some of them were conducted on patient on bed rest. ie a wasting state (if you dont move, your muscle atrophies), so arignine is important for those injured (not working out becuase of the injury) and for those who are looking to build muscle tissue.

arginine MUST be supplemented for those looking to GROW tissue at ANY age.

end of rant :)

Twin Peak
03-24-2006, 03:47 PM
Not sure if you have a problem with my posts, but our product is involved.. we have every reason to join the discussion.

Personally, I look forward to the feedback / results

Carry on.. I'm done and I'll standby for the comparisons :)

I think he was backing you, by saying that you shouldn't bother with this type of stuff.

italionstallion
03-24-2006, 03:49 PM
since you addressed my post, one last post in this thread.

the studies (I will not give you the names since our formula is based off of some of them) use arginine and they use it because some of them were conducted on patient on bed rest. ie a wasting state (if you dont move, your muscle atrophies), so arignine is important for those injured (not working out becuase of the injury) and for those who are looking to build muscle tissue.

arginine MUST be supplemented for those looking to GROW tissue at ANY age.

end of rant :)

I very likely could be wrong, but was PU one who discredited glutamine since it was tested on people that had AIDS or were on "bed rest"?

nni
03-24-2006, 03:52 PM
I think he was backing you, by saying that you shouldn't bother with this type of stuff.


you, are correct sir!

although, i agree with jkeith, it at least needs to be addressed, and then thats all.


good luck with the testing rodney.

deserusan
03-24-2006, 03:54 PM
I very likely could be wrong, but was PU one who discredited glutamine since it was tested on people that had AIDS or were on "bed rest"?

Yup..............here's the thread. This was my first flame war. How cute.

http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=581009

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:55 PM
I very likely could be wrong, but was PU one who discredited glutamine since it was tested on people that had AIDS or were on "bed rest"?

There is nothing wrong with compounds used for people on bed-rest, but those should not be passed off as BCAA's or EAA's.
Yes, Arginine is a great compound for growth...as is Glutamine...as is Creatine....you still have yet to explain the synergistic effect of adding Arginine to your Essential Amino Acid formula.

I am off to Anaheim for Expo West, but will be back on Monday to pick Testers for Growth Factor.

Instead of just signalling out Purple Wrath users, anyone who has used EAA products, please pm me if they would like to compare.

Thanks!

pu12en12g
03-24-2006, 03:57 PM
I very likely could be wrong, but was PU one who discredited glutamine since it was tested on people that had AIDS or were on "bed rest"?

Thought I was done in the thread.. but no... that was NOT the reason... but I understand your confusion 100%

me re: glutamine


whether it "works" or not... isn't the issue the thread topic is "Why glutamine is a waste of money"... not "Why glutamine doesn't work"

It looks like it was primarily lok7y and others:



Essentially: don't bother with free-form glutamine unless you're critically ill and suffering from a wasting disease or significant accident-induced muscular atrophy. If you are eating anywhere near sufficient calories, your body is already synthesizing more than enough as it is, so save your money. Creatine and protein are key. Glutamine is most definitely not.



fooling around with glutamine is a waste of time, unless you are sick or very weakened



I would personally say that GlutaBolic (glutamine peptides, glutamine akg, and glutamine malate) is a better buy than BCAAs for anti-catabolic purposes....

me re: BCAA / Glutamine


1) BCAA's actually accomplish something in a EFFICIENT manner.

2) BCAA's are proven to actually help with recovery and stimulate growth, in addition to being anti-catabolic. They are proven both in the real world, and in science. So it isn't a matter of which one works, it's a matter of which one is a more efficient way to reach your goal.

3) 2:1:1 ratio of Leucine:Isoleucine:Valine 1000g $40

RDupont
03-24-2006, 03:58 PM
One last thing...
What good is it for a rep to send a bottle to a tester if that tester has nothing to compare to.
Anyone will get results on our product, or CL's product, but the reason behind testing is to find out which products work, and which work BEST.

Thanks.

Scivation
03-24-2006, 03:59 PM
Too late...

What's new Marc? What hotel you staying at in Anaheim?

I live 40 minutes away, I will walk there.

I am trying to increase my cardio anyway.

ChiTown72
03-24-2006, 03:59 PM
just pick some new testers

nni
03-24-2006, 03:59 PM
Yup..............here's the thread. This was my first flame war. How cute.

http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=581009

why bring that back up? you didnt come out very well in there.

jkeithc82
03-24-2006, 04:00 PM
We don't hire strippers... they come free

I don't think I would be comfortable having strippers so cheap, they're free but whatever. :p

DejaBlue55
03-24-2006, 04:02 PM
lmfao at this thread

LatissimusDorsi
03-24-2006, 04:09 PM
Pass the egg whites and pop corn deserusan.

Kledz
03-24-2006, 04:11 PM
lmfao at this thread

and I thought today was gonna be nice and quiet.. :D

Ephedra
03-24-2006, 04:16 PM
I live 40 minutes away, I will walk there.

I am trying to increase my cardio anyway.
I live in anaheim. small world....

Kledz
03-24-2006, 04:19 PM
I live in anaheim. small world....

After all :)

:( sorry, couldnt resist.

deserusan
03-24-2006, 04:20 PM
why bring that back up? you didnt come out very well in there.

I think I handeled my self just fine. Just because I took the unpopular position doesn't mean I was wrong. That's the problem with this forum, popularity sometimes precedes a sound scientific argument or common knowledge by most "real" bodybuilders.

Ephedra
03-24-2006, 04:22 PM
After all :)

:( sorry, coudlnt resist.
lol....nice one.

Btw after all this hype on eaa's my money still goes to xtend. xtend+1 scoop of BSL watermelon wpi and I am set ;)

Kledz
03-24-2006, 04:27 PM
lol....nice one.

Btw after all this hype on eaa's my money still goes to xtend. xtend+1 scoop of BSL watermelon wpi and I am set ;)

I go with substance, and do the same thing. For some reason just 1 scoop of xtend enhances the flavor considerably, I love it.

JustinKim943
03-24-2006, 04:33 PM
Even if your guy mega-dosed on Growth Factor, he still couldn't touch our models!

i'm more sexually attracted to CL's John Lee then those models.... So John Lee wins.

Mr. Aries
03-24-2006, 04:34 PM
my only post in this thread..


I have no idea why we (CL) decided to participate in this thread and I'm for one a little bit pissed off that we were once again baited into this type of thread that does not serve the bodybuilding community one bit. If they want to test, then go ahead and let them test. Is it suspect that this was brought up at this very time right before our release? OF COURSE... but everyone else can see that too and decide for themselves.

I knew this thread would disintegrate once again into a war of words and I'm tired of it.. I stand behind PW 100% and I don't care if 20 other companies wants to do testing right after our testers are done with PW. It will stand the test of time.


btw, i have no desire to touch any models nor do i plan to mega-dose on any supplements in order to touch them. thanks.

Kledz
03-24-2006, 04:40 PM
Classy, accurate, and justified response.

Mr Aries for CEO :)

CONTROLLED LABS
03-24-2006, 04:40 PM
my only post in this thread..


I have no idea why we (CL) decided to participate in this thread and I'm for one a little bit pissed off that we were once again baited into this type of thread that does not serve the bodybuilding community one bit. If they want to test, then go ahead and let them test. Is it suspect that this was brought up at this very time right before our release? OF COURSE... but everyone else can see that too and decide for themselves.

I knew this thread would disintegrate once again into a war of words and I'm tired of it.. I stand behind PW 100% and I don't care if 20 other companies wants to do testing right after our testers are done with PW. It will stand the test of time.


btw, i have no desire to touch any models nor do i plan to mega-dose on any supplements in order to touch them. thanks.


I agree.

but werent there already testers for their product that launched 4-5 months ago?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=626335&highlight=growth+factor

uhockey
03-24-2006, 04:42 PM
I get my EAAs from chicken and whey......the only thing I feel the "need" to increase dosing on is the BCAAs, which are generally consumed with whey anyhow. I'll stick with Xtend.

Growth Factor was decent, but I didn't get any "more" from it that I did from Xtend.

Additionally, I find the ****storm over this to be quite sad. Rodney is offering the testers a second product, free. He's not "stealing" customers and he's not badmouthing CL at all.

Face it, CL rides the hype of each release AND had the audacity to pass around information DIRECTLY comparing Red Acid to a competing product in secret. Rodney is doing this in the public eye, giving away his product, and not sneaking around (something he was accused of in the past.)

The testers benefit and the board benefits by learning which the people think is "better."

Ephedra
03-24-2006, 04:44 PM
Well CL you guys asked for this type of **** when you guy hype the hell out of your products. Just do what mr 50 cent says- "if they gonna hate then let them hate but watch the money pile up."

Ephedra
03-24-2006, 04:47 PM
I get my EAAs from chicken and whey......the only thing I feel the "need" to increase dosing on is the BCAAs, which are generally consumed with whey anyhow. I'll stick with Xtend.

Growth Factor was decent, but I didn't get any "more" from it that I did from Xtend.

Additionally, I find the ****storm over this to be quite sad. Rodney is offering the testers a second product, free. He's not "stealing" customers and he's not badmouthing CL at all.

Face it, CL rides the hype of each release AND had the audacity to pass around information DIRECTLY comparing Red Acid to a competing product in secret. Rodney is doing this in the public eye, giving away his product, and not sneaking around (something he was accused of in the past.)

The testers benefit and the board benefits by learning which the people think is "better."Agree.

The hype is crazzzy. They had a EAA vs BCAA thread yesterday and EAA's were in the lead. Do you think all the people who voted eaa have ever even used an eaa product? I think not, lol.

jkeithc82
03-24-2006, 04:47 PM
Just do what mr 50 cent says- "if they gonna hate then let them hate but watch the money pile up."

You sang the clean version Ephedra. :D

deserusan
03-24-2006, 04:51 PM
This is more appropriate:

"I refused to blow a fuse
They even had it on the news
Don't believe the hype..."

<img src="http://www.thaformula.com/Formula%20Pictures/public_enemy_int_pic.jpg">

dwm230000
03-24-2006, 04:54 PM
I posted this in a thread that was closed yesterday. Wouldn't it be nice if these threads were in their own section?


I don't know what else needs to happen in this section of the forum before a sub-forum is opened up that can be used purely for company reps who want to start threads about their products and companies. I have seen it suggested a number of times and nothing has been done yet. The general supplement forum is becoming an advertising section whether people want to admit it or not, and all the product FAQ's, threads looking for testers, threads about general info on products, post your company stash threads, design our t-shirt threads, what do you think of our website threads, free sample threads, suggestions on our next product threads, customer appreciation promotions and giveaways, name our next product threads, current sales on our product threads, and product log/review summary threads are the major reason(I'm sure there are others but that's all I can come up with right now). I'm not saying company reps should not be able to post about their supplements or start threads in the general forum. I just think everyone would be much better served if they had their own section to start threads about their companies and products. The number of these threads is even annoying to me and I am a board rep.

I don't know of any good reason why having this sub-forum would not make the supplement section better. The number of companies represented on here and the number of these "free advertising" threads is only going to keep increasing. The people who want to see these threads could still view and post in them in the company sub-forum whenever they want.

BTW, this post is not directed at any specific company. All the companies on here are using the board for advertising and to create hype to an extent(some use it for advertising and hype more than others, though).

I really like this forum and that is why I am on here almost everyday, but I think everyone would be better off if these threads were separated from the general supplement section. It would stop the general supplement section from looking like an advertisement, which I think is good for everyone.

If anyone who has the power to make this additional forum is reading this, please consider it.

I would also like to see a sub-forum that separates sponsored supplement logs from the ones that are not sponsored, but I realize that is a little picky.

hithard
03-24-2006, 04:57 PM
no no no

"man to man, who cheated who..."
or
"its time the long arm of the law put a few more in the ground"
the law being the moderators in this case. all this threas is doing and gona do is creat tension and useless drama

deserusan
03-24-2006, 05:01 PM
I posted this in a thread that was closed yesterday. Wouldn't it be nice if these threads were in their own section?

While I agree with to some degree I also disagree for one simple reason: consumers have the right to know what goes on. Putting this in it's own section or only letting reps post in this section doesn't leave them open to much scrutiny. Frankly, if you are going to bring a supplement to market you had better know the facts surrounding and be prepared for challenges. If they don't want to get caught up in the argument then they don't have to participate. You guys at MAN certainly do a good job at avoiding situations like these and never get caught up in these "petty" but pertinent arguments.

ericgonzalez
03-24-2006, 05:03 PM
Just my opinion, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your company, but I think posing a direct comparison challenge to a new product (one that hasn't even come out) is a little disrespectful. If you want to have testers for your stuff that's fine, but directly positioning yours against theirs seems a little shaddy.

Just my opinion :cool:

^ Word.

The drama is getting a little old, and it's the same 2-3 people who always stir things up.

dwm230000
03-24-2006, 05:05 PM
While I agree with to some degree I also disagree for one simple reason: consumers have the right to know what goes on. Putting this in it's own section or only letting reps post in this section doesn't leave them open to much scrutiny. Frankly, if you are going to bring a supplement to market you had better know the facts surrounding and be prepared for challenges. If they don't want to get caught up in the argument then they don't have to participate. You guys at MAN certainly do a good job at avoiding situations like these and never get caught up in these "petty" but pertinent arguments.

I'm not sure if I understand your disagreement. Company reps would be the only ones allowed to start threads in the additional section. They would not be the only ones allowed to post. Everyone can post in and view them just as they can in here. The reps would be open to the same amount of scrutiny. These threads would just not be cluttering the general section because they would be separated. It doesn't stop these arguments. It just separates them.

deserusan
03-24-2006, 05:09 PM
I'm not sure if I understand your disagreement. Company reps would be the only ones allowed to start threads in the additional section. They would not be the only ones allowed to post. Everyone can post in and view them just as they can in here. The reps would be open to the same amount of scrutiny. These threads would just not be cluttering the general section because they would be separated.

I see what you are saying now. It does have some merit. I think it would be a little difficult discern what should get posted where. It could work though.

dwm230000
03-24-2006, 05:45 PM
I see what you are saying now. It does have some merit. I think it would be a little difficult discern what should get posted where. It could work though.

Thanks. The way I wrote it originally is a little confusing.

As far as what threads get posted where, I think the best general rule would be if someone affiliated with a company wants to start a thread that involves their company and/or products, it should be done in the additional section. I know there may be some questionable threads(as to where they should be started), but I guess where those threads end up would have to be left to the mods discretion.

cuponoodles
03-24-2006, 05:46 PM
I posted this in a thread that was closed yesterday. Wouldn't it be nice if these threads were in their own section?

It definitely would be. This back and forth bickering is almost embarrassing to watch.

laz
03-24-2006, 05:49 PM
I get my EAAs from chicken and whey......the only thing I feel the "need" to increase dosing on is the BCAAs, which are generally consumed with whey anyhow. I'll stick with Xtend.

Growth Factor was decent, but I didn't get any "more" from it that I did from Xtend.

Additionally, I find the ****storm over this to be quite sad. Rodney is offering the testers a second product, free. He's not "stealing" customers and he's not badmouthing CL at all.

Face it, CL rides the hype of each release AND had the audacity to pass around information DIRECTLY comparing Red Acid to a competing product in secret. Rodney is doing this in the public eye, giving away his product, and not sneaking around (something he was accused of in the past.)

The testers benefit and the board benefits by learning which the people think is "better."


agreed

Joel
03-24-2006, 05:51 PM
Does it get any better than this ?

Kledz
03-24-2006, 05:53 PM
It definitely would be. This back and forth bickering is almost embarrassing to watch.

Almost? :(

solarize
03-24-2006, 09:52 PM
Well I'm happy to Apply to test against Xtend/Ergo's All in One.

The MVPlaya
03-25-2006, 01:09 AM
Controlled Labs > nutrabolics

That's right, nutrabolics, Ru...you're trying to get attention and hype off of the Purple Wrath release when your product testing began about 5 months ago.

Joel
03-25-2006, 01:38 AM
Controlled Labs > nutrabolics

That's right, nutrabolics, Ru...you're trying to get attention and hype off of the Purple Wrath release when your product testing began about 5 months ago.

Just goes to show you what good marketing with a popular brand name can do. Both products are basically the same , but with Nutrabolics reputation and CL's clever marketing, Purple Wraath becomes a sellout before it hits the market and Nutrabolics is overstocked at the warehouse collecting dust.

NukeDukem
03-25-2006, 01:43 AM
Just goes to show you what good marketing with a popular brand name can do. Both products are basically the same , but with Nutrabolics reputation and CL's clever marketing, Purple Wraath becomes a sellout before it hits the market and Nutrabolics is overstocked at the warehouse collecting dust.

In the realm of this forum at least. I wonder how big a chunk of the actual market this place is (including all the lurkers and newbs who just read but don't post). I would imagine CL being a pretty small and new company probably does a large part, if not a majority, of their business based off forum buzz. I don't know much about Nutrabolics or how big of a company they are.

Clever marketing or not, I always get a little sick when I see a product not even out winning a "which one is best" or "which one should I use" poll.

Joel
03-25-2006, 03:00 AM
In the realm of this forum at least. I wonder how big a chunk of the actual market this place is (including all the lurkers and newbs who just read but don't post). I would imagine CL being a pretty small and new company probably does a large part, if not a majority, of their business based off forum buzz. I don't know much about Nutrabolics or how big of a company they are.

Clever marketing or not, I always get a little sick when I see a product not even out winning a "which one is best" or "which one should I use" poll.

I think even just a cool or catchy name can go a long way. Some kid who was asking naive questions about something was just saying in another thread how he was gonna take the "grape Wrath" . I mean cmon, what do you want to tell your buddies your taking? "Dude, Im on Purple Wrath !!! " or " Im taking Growth Factor" . I also think the majority of CLs customers are probably 16-21 age group.

uhockey
03-25-2006, 07:21 AM
Controlled Labs > nutrabolics

That's right, nutrabolics, Ru...you're trying to get attention and hype off of the Purple Wrath release when your product testing began about 5 months ago.

Interesting......seems to me that despite the "hate" on bb.com, nutrabolics holds a bit more respect amongst the old crowd (and the masses of casual lifters NOT on the message boards) than CL. I mean, I think the way CL markets themselves on bb.com is quite intelligent.......but a lot of people go to the store to pick up their supplements.

IMO, nutrabolics makes better products, but their markup is far too high. Damned canadian dollar. ;)

Twin Peak
03-25-2006, 07:47 AM
Agree.

The hype is crazzzy. They had a EAA vs BCAA thread yesterday and EAA's were in the lead. Do you think all the people who voted eaa have ever even used an eaa product? I think not, lol.

I actually like EAAs quite a bit. Vendetta was one of my favorite products.

naturalguy
03-25-2006, 07:58 AM
Amazing, 5 pages of this???

Again EAA's are not new, we are not going to find out anything new from these logs/reviews. There is already plenty of feedback on EAA's.

martel04
03-25-2006, 08:01 AM
I think even just a cool or catchy name can go a long way. Some kid who was asking naive questions about something was just saying in another thread how he was gonna take the "grape Wrath" . I mean cmon, what do you want to tell your buddies your taking? "Dude, Im on Purple Wrath !!! " or " Im taking Growth Factor" . I also think the majority of CLs customers are probably 16-21 age group.

joel grow up lol

Tarkana
03-25-2006, 08:20 AM
joel grow up lol
for heaven's sake, I hope he takes it lightly and as sarcasm. the last thing this thread needs is for u 2 to add another fight to it :rolleyes:

uhockey
03-25-2006, 08:20 AM
I actually like EAAs quite a bit. Vendetta was one of my favorite products.

Keep in mind that Vendetta also contains a pretty solid carbohydrate component, though.

Also to note is that many of the studies cited by CL in their writeup focus on EAAs in the presence of carbs.......

Tarkana
03-25-2006, 08:26 AM
not that its that hard to add carbs anyway... if its gonna be in a powder form either way, it seems that bulk wopuld just be the beast way to go, its really not that hard to flavor. just add some gatorade powder and u got ur carbs. its not that hard to add in some bulk citrulline or bulk beta alanine either. i wonder if bulk beta alanine is really worth the money though

Twin Peak
03-25-2006, 08:31 AM
Keep in mind that Vendetta also contains a pretty solid carbohydrate component, though.

Also to note is that many of the studies cited by CL in their writeup focus on EAAs in the presence of carbs.......

Totally agree, my point is, I have had excellent subjective experiences with EAAs, when administered properly.

Joel
03-25-2006, 03:29 PM
joel grow up lol


Martel I <3 u

xGhostinGx
03-25-2006, 03:47 PM
WTF? Why in Gods name is Rodney even allowed to post after all the BS he has pulled? He must have cried to the admin, because I think if he didnt, many of the mods would ban him. Every threads he starts turns into a trainwreck. Ban this clown. Or let him post nonsense, start chaos, pimp, and lie. BAN RODNEY!! Boycott Nutrabolics!!

demetris
03-26-2006, 08:52 AM
Controlled Labs > nutrabolics

That's right, nutrabolics, Ru...you're trying to get attention and hype off of the Purple Wrath release when your product testing began about 5 months ago.


very well said

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 09:02 AM
Just my opinion, and I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run your company, but I think posing a direct comparison challenge to a new product (one that hasn't even come out) is a little disrespectful. If you want to have testers for your stuff that's fine, but directly positioning yours against theirs seems a little shaddy.

Just my opinion :cool:
I agree 100%! Do they want to compare COA's too? ;)

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 09:18 AM
I just got back on the forum. If anything is suspect it is undermining comments from competitor reps.
Why did you just come back? Oh yea, you were banned. And for what? Do we need to name all of the things? I don't think we have enough time to go through all the skeletons in your closet. Your comparison timing is very suspect as well as why you even came back to this forum. It didn't work out the first time and it isn't working out this time. Everyone you ever had on this site representing you has left. Is there a reason for that?

uhockey
03-26-2006, 09:45 AM
I agree 100%! Do they want to compare COA's too? ;)

What's better? I low priced CoA for a single ingredient in a multi-ingredient product, or no CoA at all? I guess the single will suffice for "truth" to some.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 09:49 AM
What's better? I low priced CoA for a single ingredient in a multi-ingredient product, or no CoA at all? I guess the single will suffice for "truth" to some.
This is pretty shady that Rodney thinks this is ok. Talk about trying to pimp your products...

uhockey
03-26-2006, 09:54 AM
As I stated a number of pages back, I really don't think this is shady. It benefits the customer in every way, it's not like he's making money off of it. Would it be nice to see some CoAs? Damn right. But I really don't see how this behaviour is that "shady" since he's being very upfront about it.

laz
03-26-2006, 10:00 AM
Why not just compare the two products. It will be good for both companies. No one loses here. Whats with all of the bickering. People will side with thier favorite despite marketing ploys anyway.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 10:01 AM
As I stated a number of pages back, I really don't think this is shady. It benefits the customer in every way, it's not like he's making money off of it. Would it be nice to see some CoAs? Damn right. But I really don't see how this behaviour is that "shady" since he's being very upfront about it.
Here is my 2 cents on the issue. Rodney did not need to bring it up and say he wants to get in contact with the testers CL has and give them free product to do a comparison. People can do this on their own. I'm sure if someone would have brought this up in a thread a member would have been glad to do a comparison. Instead Rodney made a direct callout to those individuals and CL. This is very unprofessional in my opinion. So now everyone should attack Nutrabolics with all of their products just for a comparison? Company X thinks their products are better so they call out Nutrabolics testers and them as a company to prove their companies products are better? How unprofessional. It's a forum, not a company pimp and battle ground. I along with everyone else doesn't come here to watch companies bitch at eachother all day long. We come to socialize about our lifestyle and hobby. The fighting crap needs to leave this forum. This **** needs to stop and if I were a MOD this **** would stop right now, I'll tell you that!

Squats
03-26-2006, 10:06 AM
I can't believe Pu has a journal in the workout journal section...all he uses it for is to sell the products he pimps!

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 10:13 AM
You can love me or hate me but this thread is bull**** pimping at it's finest... This is a very unprofessional thread coming from Rodney.

deserusan
03-26-2006, 10:13 AM
It's a forum, not a company pimp and battle ground.

I agree. Maybe someone should tell CL that. Why do you think get called out so much.

"You know it's hard out here for a pimp
When he tryin to get this money for the rent
For the Cadillacs and gas money spent
Will have a whole lot of bitches talkin ****"

<img src="http://www.popmatters.com/film/reviews/h/images/hustle-and-flow.jpg">

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 10:18 AM
I agree. Maybe someone should tell CL that. Why do you think get called out so much.
I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular. All of this bull**** needs to stop. It is ruining the forum and website as a whole. It seems as soon as we get rid of a troll or shill or starts the fights someone else starts another one. Rodney has no business calling people out. The way he is handling the testing is very unprofessional. I personally would be pissed if I sent a product to someone to test and as soon as that happens another company contacts my testers and offers them free products to do a review on. Give me a break. Let the consumers do their own comparisons rather than being forced to do so by another company.

Twin Peak
03-26-2006, 10:19 AM
As I stated a number of pages back, I really don't think this is shady. It benefits the customer in every way, it's not like he's making money off of it. Would it be nice to see some CoAs? Damn right. But I really don't see how this behaviour is that "shady" since he's being very upfront about it.

I agree its not "shady", but there are clearly alterior motives -- i.e., his product is getting no attention, and so this is an attempt to bring it back into the limelight.

Frankly, whether they do the comparison or not, I don't think Rodney cares. This has done what he wanted it to do.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 10:25 AM
I agree its not "shady", but there are clearly alterior motives -- i.e., his product is getting no attention, and so this is an attempt to bring it back into the limelight.

Frankly, whether they do the comparison or not, I don't think Rodney cares. This has done what he wanted it to do.
Very good point.

uhockey
03-26-2006, 10:51 AM
I agree its not "shady", but there are clearly alterior motives -- i.e., his product is getting no attention, and so this is an attempt to bring it back into the limelight.

Frankly, whether they do the comparison or not, I don't think Rodney cares. This has done what he wanted it to do.

Cheers. I logged GF for them and fully admitted I derived no more benefit from it than from Xtend. I also agreed to run a direct comparison of InsuleanK vs. GXR. I'll admit, Rodney has done shady things in the past, but this thread really doesn't strike me as all that inappropriate.

If CL or Xtreme Formulations or MRM asked me to evaluate their product compared to Xtend or Growth Factor, both of which I fully admit to receiving free, I'd gladly do so.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 11:14 AM
Cheers. I logged GF for them and fully admitted I derived no more benefit from it than from Xtend. I also agreed to run a direct comparison of InsuleanK vs. GXR. I'll admit, Rodney has done shady things in the past, but this thread really doesn't strike me as all that inappropriate.

If CL or Xtreme Formulations or MRM asked me to evaluate their product compared to Xtend or Growth Factor, both of which I fully admit to receiving free, I'd gladly do so.
Could you also be backing up Rodney because you don't like a certain company?

uhockey
03-26-2006, 11:18 AM
Could you also be backing up Rodney because you don't like a certain company?

Considering IK being an obvious clone of our GXR, I'd hardly say we have love for Nutrabolics either.

I simply don't see why this is such a big deal to you. What Rodney's doing is no worse (actually it's much better) than sneaking around and offering up compasion pics to testers of RA vs. MP. Rodney is being upfront and I believe people would benefit from seeing the opinions of users of both.

Is it possible that you're appauled because you frequently stick up for a certain company despite their CoAs not living up to the expectations you yourself so frequently demand?

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 11:32 AM
Considering IK being an obvious clone of our GXR, I'd hardly say we have love for Nutrabolics either.

I simply don't see why this is such a big deal to you. What Rodney's doing is no worse (actually it's much better) than sneaking around and offering up compasion pics to testers of RA vs. MP. Rodney is being upfront and I believe people would benefit from seeing the opinions of users of both.

Is it possible that you're appauled because you frequently stick up for a certain company despite their CoAs not living up to the expectations you yourself so frequently demand?
I just think him going after those individuals is uncalled for in the manner he did. Sure, I would love to see a comparison of the products. But is this how everyone is going to handle it? As soon as testers come out for a company another competitor contacts them to compare products? Let people do their own comparisons without being forced to do so. I don't understand how you call me out in my own post due to my opinion which you don't like. You and I always see things differently yet we see many things alike at the same time and we handle it off the boards so we don't bring all the drama bull**** like we are now. Calling me out proved what?

And since you brought it up, I want to clear some things up... I don't pimp companies, PERIOD. Hell, I don't even pimp the company I rep for on this board. It's not how I am. Yes, I am friends with PU since you implied that. So does that mean that anything PU says I back up 100%? No, he and I have talked numerous times about things(again off the forum so we didn't clutter it up with BS). The bottom line is, he and I have had similar pasts and we can talk about many things off the forum that aren't supplement related since we have similar lifestyles. Heck, I talk with MANY company reps off the board because I have become friends with them. Big Spaz and I will be hanging out this summer. I have made plenty of friends on here. So I should not be friends with him (PU) because of the company he represents which some people don't look highly on? Sorry, I'm not like that. I have friends who clean **** out of porto-potties for a living, does that mean I'm going to treat them differently because I don't like where they work?

dito
03-26-2006, 11:59 AM
hmm two of the sleaziest most despicable companies fighting. Not sure if I care.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 12:02 PM
hmm two of the sleaziest most despicable companies fighting. Not sure if I care.
Dito... do you need a hug? :)

dito
03-26-2006, 12:06 PM
I can always use a hug.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 12:10 PM
I can always use a hug.
LOL. Haven't talked to you for a while man, hope all is well.

deserusan
03-26-2006, 12:10 PM
I can always use a hug.

This should help....even though it's on the internets

<img src="http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/pubfiles/hug.jpg">

dito
03-26-2006, 12:12 PM
LOL. Haven't talked to you for a while man, hope all is well.


Been slacking off on the lifestyle big time :( Been working all weekend on this motorcycle we are custom painting. About to go back in a bit. Other then that life is good. How have you been?

dito
03-26-2006, 12:13 PM
This should help....even though it's on the internets

<img src="http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/pubfiles/hug.jpg">


Is that a bush hug?? Oh no you just didnt!

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 12:16 PM
Been slacking off on the lifestyle big time :( Been working all weekend on this motorcycle we are custom painting. About to go back in a bit. Other then that life is good. How have you been?
That reminds me... I gotta get my Ninja ready for Spring. I've been busy with work and trying to get my workouts in. Wedding planning sucks! My future parents-in-law told us how much they are chipping in for the wedding... I was not impressed at all. Looks like my fiance and I will be paying for MAJORITY of the wedding.

dito
03-26-2006, 12:19 PM
Just get married by Elvis in Vegas. Big wedding suck!

jkeithc82
03-26-2006, 12:19 PM
Ok, now you guys are just grab assing. :D

deserusan
03-26-2006, 12:25 PM
Ok, now you guys are just grab assing. :D

I'll grab your ass if you hook up the Anagen. :D

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 12:29 PM
Just get married by Elvis in Vegas. Big wedding suck!
I mentioned that to her yesterday when we were going over budget stuff and she started to cry... I guess that idea went out the window.

dwm230000
03-26-2006, 12:48 PM
Here is my 2 cents on the issue. Rodney did not need to bring it up and say he wants to get in contact with the testers CL has and give them free product to do a comparison. People can do this on their own. I'm sure if someone would have brought this up in a thread a member would have been glad to do a comparison. Instead Rodney made a direct callout to those individuals and CL. This is very unprofessional in my opinion. So now everyone should attack Nutrabolics with all of their products just for a comparison? Company X thinks their products are better so they call out Nutrabolics testers and them as a company to prove their companies products are better? How unprofessional. It's a forum, not a company pimp and battle ground. I along with everyone else doesn't come here to watch companies bitch at eachother all day long. We come to socialize about our lifestyle and hobby. The fighting crap needs to leave this forum. This **** needs to stop and if I were a MOD this **** would stop right now, I'll tell you that!

Did you consider it unprofessional when Chuck Diesel did the same exact thing a few weeks ago?

NOS ETHER Caps v/s GB/WB stack or CLOUT
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=716156

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 12:52 PM
Did you consider it unprofessional when Chuck Diesel did the same exact thing a few weeks ago?

NOS ETHER Caps v/s GB/WB stack or CLOUT
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=716156
Chuck also complains about board reps yet he is one who constantly pimps himself... Enough said. :rolleyes:

storm shadow
03-26-2006, 12:53 PM
Did you consider it unprofessional when Chuck Diesel did the same exact thing a few weeks ago?

NOS ETHER Caps v/s GB/WB stack or CLOUT
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=716156

IMO its different because PW isn't even out yet and there was some hype to it(which many including myself believe it being the reason PW was called out)

dito
03-26-2006, 12:55 PM
I mentioned that to her yesterday when we were going over budget stuff and she started to cry... I guess that idea went out the window.


Nothing a good donkey punch won't fix!

dwm230000
03-26-2006, 12:56 PM
IMO its different because PW isn't even out yet and there was some hype to it(which many including myself believe it being the reason PW was called out)

I don't think that makes the least bit of sense in the context of whether or not it is professional. I am just saying that I don't recall anyone complaining that it was unprofessional when Chuck did it.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 01:00 PM
Nothing a good donkey punch won't fix!
LOL!

storm shadow
03-26-2006, 01:00 PM
I don't think that makes the least bit of sense in the context of whether or not it is professional. I am just saying that I don't recall anyone complaining that it was unprofessional when Chuck did it.
Probably because they are too scared of Chuck coming after them, that mutherf*cker is huge!

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 01:04 PM
I don't think that makes the least bit of sense in the context of whether or not it is professional. I am just saying that I don't recall anyone complaining that it was unprofessional when Chuck did it.
Here is my take on everything... Let people do their own comparisons. If someone wants to compare something, let them do it. Companies should not be fighting over members testing products and forcing them to do comparisons. That would be like me asking people to compare AMPED to GB/WB stack (or comparable products) after they pick testers for it.

dwm230000
03-26-2006, 01:12 PM
Here is my take on everything... Let people do their own comparisons. If someone wants to compare something, let them do it. Companies should not be fighting over members testing products and forcing them to do comparisons. That would be like me asking people to compare AMPED to GB/WB stack (or comparable products) after they pick testers for it.

That's cool. I just don't think one company should be chastised for it when other companies are not.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 01:18 PM
That's cool. I just don't think one company should be chastised for it when other companies are not.
I agree. I don't believe I ever saw the Chuck thread that you showed me... Thanks for pointing it out.

uhockey
03-26-2006, 03:32 PM
Your rant up there is beyond confusing and thus I withhold comment. I just don't think you have any right to criticize Rodney, nor do I think what he did was wrong. That is all. You've stuck up for persons in the past and been wrong......so have I. This wasn't your battle to enter and it wasn't mine. For what it's worth, I hope all those testers got one of each product and I hope they all comment on which they liked better. If that occurs, I will feel justified in my stance.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 03:34 PM
Your rant up there is beyond confusing and thus I withhold comment. I just don't think you have any right to criticize Rodney, nor do I think what he did was wrong. That is all. You've stuck up for persons in the past and been wrong......so have I. This wasn't your battle to enter and it wasn't mine. For what it's worth, I hope all those testers got one of each product and I hope they all comment on which they liked better. If that occurs, I will feel justified in my stance.
Then if you have no problem with what Rodney has done in the past then you shouldn't have any problem with Pu... Again, I'm not sticking up for CL but according to your statements they are the same then.

uhockey
03-26-2006, 03:54 PM
according to your statements they are the same then.

You said it, not me.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 03:55 PM
You said it, not me.
So why do you back Rodney then?

uhockey
03-26-2006, 03:59 PM
Because I don't feel what he did in THIS INSTANCE was wrong. The past issues with multiple names and such are shady.

What was done with the Red Acid vs. MP logs was attempted to be done in secret.....unfortunately (like you) I have MANY friends off this board and within 30 minutes two of them had informed me. It was ****ty and underhanded. No one gave us an opportunity to send out product to the testers. Rodney, in this instance, is being VERY up front about his intentions.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 04:03 PM
Because I don't feel what he did in THIS INSTANCE was wrong. The past issues with multiple names and such are shady.

What was done with the Red Acid vs. MP logs was attempted to be done in secret.....unfortunately (like you) I have MANY friends off this board and within 30 minutes two of them had informed me. It was ****ty and underhanded. No one gave us an opportunity to send out product to the testers. Rodney, in this instance, is being VERY up front about his intentions.
I don't feel like arguing with you on this. Let's just agree to disagree and be done with it...

uhockey
03-26-2006, 04:07 PM
I don't feel like arguing with you on this. Let's just agree to disagree and be done with it...

Agreed.

MCWTRAINER
03-26-2006, 04:18 PM
Agreed.
I'll kick your ass later... ;)

CanadaBBOY
03-26-2006, 04:29 PM
Because I don't feel what he did in THIS INSTANCE was wrong. The past issues with multiple names and such are shady.

What was done with the Red Acid vs. MP logs was attempted to be done in secret.....unfortunately (like you) I have MANY friends off this board and within 30 minutes two of them had informed me. It was ****ty and underhanded. No one gave us an opportunity to send out product to the testers. Rodney, in this instance, is being VERY up front about his intentions.

I have to agree 100%. I think they both look like awesome products and I know that both companies take pride in their products, so I think it will be a good deal!

I think a big issue will be the taste of each, but i'm sure they both taste fine.

I can see why controlled labs was a bit put out by this, but I think it's a resonable, and as Uhockey stated, upfront idea.

BringnIt
03-26-2006, 04:50 PM
I don't think it's unreasonable at all. I think it's ballsy (in a good way), actually. Point isn't whether or not a product is effective on its own, it's whether or not its better than the competition's.

RDupont
03-26-2006, 05:30 PM
Here is my 2 cents on the issue. Rodney did not need to bring it up and say he wants to get in contact with the testers CL has and give them free product to do a comparison. People can do this on their own. I'm sure if someone would have brought this up in a thread a member would have been glad to do a comparison. Instead Rodney made a direct callout to those individuals and CL. This is very unprofessional in my opinion. So now everyone should attack Nutrabolics with all of their products just for a comparison? Company X thinks their products are better so they call out Nutrabolics testers and them as a company to prove their companies products are better? How unprofessional. It's a forum, not a company pimp and battle ground. I along with everyone else doesn't come here to watch companies bitch at eachother all day long. We come to socialize about our lifestyle and hobby. The fighting crap needs to leave this forum. This **** needs to stop and if I were a MOD this **** would stop right now, I'll tell you that!

Excuse me sir, but this is not your 2cents...its been like 98cents of BS whining!
Every post I make (all of which in the last month have been to send out free product!) you chime in on, and you act as if you are a mod or a company owner, but infact you are not even a company rep, and I have no clue who you even are. If you have an issue with me, please call my office or discuss it with me at a trade show, but the only thing I find unprofessional is you recycling the same hate posts each time I make mine.

solarize
03-26-2006, 05:31 PM
So given the huge amount of discussion - is this testing thing going to happen or NOT?
Personally I would love to see a head to head.. and maybe not have to wait another 7 pages to see if its going to happen./

Cheers to both companies for what seem like very solid products. I look forward to trying both.

UberBerzerker
03-26-2006, 05:41 PM
YAY!! I'm gonna post something! (even though I don't really give a **** either way) ;)

Ok, here we go....
So, companies like CL and AX can create a wave of hype so large that it bogs down the server, and that's cool with you guys, nobody seems to mind that, right? cuz tank and pu are good dudes, yeah?- but a certain Rodney, not a good bro in some eyes, tries to ride one of those waves and you deem it ''shady'' or ''unacceptable''? That's hilarious. it's called good business, being competitive, staying on top of the market. So he wants to have people compare products, and he posted about it on the forum. He used a tool that every other company is using to create their own hype and help with marketing, so what?. He was upfront and open about it, and only wanted to put some of this crazy spot light on his own product. wouldn't any of you guys, if you owned a supp co. with a AA product, have done the same thing? I think you would have, whether you admit it or not. Who honestly would do a comparison on these two items on their own if not asked to or prompted by the company owners? Why not have a direct comparison log run, that's how we all benefit and find out who makes the best products (I personally don't think anyone could POSSIBLY tell the difference between the two products,just my .02)

ok, time to eat some anabolic, t-boosting, chocolate chip cookies....

RDupont
03-26-2006, 05:43 PM
I don't think it's unreasonable at all. I think it's ballsy (in a good way), actually. Point isn't whether or not a product is effective on its own, it's whether or not its better than the competition's.

The only way to properly test the potency of one product is to compare it to other products in that same category. That is the WHOLE point of this thread. If VPX's BCAAEX product had EAA's in it, I would have compared that instead as that would have been the best comparison, but at the current time I think the only other amino product that compares to ours is Purple Wrath. I have not said anything negative about their product, as they have about ours...I will let the real-world results speak for themselves.

RDupont
03-26-2006, 05:45 PM
Why not have a direct comparison log run, that's how we all benefit and find out who makes the best products

This is the whole reasoning behind the post...a direct comparison log will help tell which product is better vs. someone who tests the product on their own and compares the results they got on EAA's to the results they got on a trib product!

RDupont
03-26-2006, 05:48 PM
So given the huge amount of discussion - is this testing thing going to happen or NOT?


We will be sending out our product! I will have testers chosen next week.
It seems as if all PW testers will be testing theirs first. That really shouldn't make a difference, correct?

UberBerzerker
03-26-2006, 05:48 PM
I guess now that I've seen 2 products with esterfied AA's, I gotta ask...

what is the benefit, and what evidence do you have to support your claims?

jkeithc82
03-26-2006, 05:53 PM
I guess now that I've seen 2 products with esterfied AA's, I gotta ask...

what is the benefit, and what evidence do you have to support your claims?

I asked this same question back on page 2 I believe. :confused:

UberBerzerker
03-26-2006, 05:55 PM
I asked this same question back on page 2 I believe. :confused:

;) i know, I was hoping it'd be answered by now

uhockey
03-26-2006, 05:56 PM
YAY!! I'm gonna post something! (even though I don't really give a **** either way) ;)

Ok, here we go....
So, companies like CL and AX can create a wave of hype so large that it bogs down the server, and that's cool with you guys, nobody seems to mind that, right? cuz tank and pu are good dudes, yeah?- but a certain Rodney, not a good bro in some eyes, tries to ride one of those waves and you deem it ''shady'' or ''unacceptable''? That's hilarious. it's called good business, being competitive, staying on top of the market. So he wants to have people compare products, and he posted about it on the forum. He used a tool that every other company is using to create their own hype and help with marketing, so what?. He was upfront and open about it, and only wanted to put some of this crazy spot light on his own product. wouldn't any of you guys, if you owned a supp co. with a AA product, have done the same thing? I think you would have, whether you admit it or not. Who honestly would do a comparison on these two items on their own if not asked to or prompted by the company owners? Why not have a direct comparison log run, that's how we all benefit and find out who makes the best products (I personally don't think anyone could POSSIBLY tell the difference between the two products,just my .02)

ok, time to eat some anabolic, t-boosting, chocolate chip cookies....

Hmmm, here I was assuming you hate me, yet here we agree 100%. So it goes...

UberBerzerker
03-26-2006, 05:59 PM
Hmmm, here I was assuming you hate me, yet here we agree 100%. So it goes...

don't mistake the coincidence of shared opinion for some kind of friendship ;) I still dont like you, so i didn't want to say I agreed with you. lol.

uhockey
03-26-2006, 06:01 PM
don't mistake the coincidence of shared opinion for some kind of friendship ;) I still dont like you, so i didn't want to say I agreed with you. lol.

Fair enough. If you ever feel like discussing your feelings about that, PM me. I'm not sure how/when/why I rubbed you wrong and I know you can't win 'em all, but I'm open to comments.

UberBerzerker
03-26-2006, 06:02 PM
let's not hijack Rodney's thread :)

jkeithc82
03-26-2006, 06:05 PM
let's not hijack Rodney's thread :)

Yeah really. I'm calling Chuck D now. :cool:

beer20
03-26-2006, 06:15 PM
I personally don't think anyone could POSSIBLY tell the difference between the two products,just my .02

ok, time to eat some anabolic, t-boosting, chocolate chip cookies....
good point.
mmm,cookies.... :D

Heartless
03-26-2006, 06:19 PM
where the heck can you get purple wrath? ive searched for it and nothing comes up...

storm shadow
03-26-2006, 06:21 PM
where the heck can you get purple wrath? ive searched for it and nothing comes up...
It wont be out for sale untill wed. accoriding to tank

Joel
03-26-2006, 07:07 PM
ok who wants to grab ass?

Younglifter16
03-26-2006, 07:08 PM
Nutrabolics isnt all that great at sending products out to testers, me and a few others never recieved the products we were supposed to test awhile back anyway.

it would be interesting to see PW against GF I suppose though, but this thread alone is interesting.

dito
03-26-2006, 08:03 PM
Ok, here we go....
So, companies like CL and AX can create a wave of hype so large that it bogs down the server, and that's cool with you guys, nobody seems to mind that, right? cuz tank and pu are good dudes, yeah?- ....


Just call me Dito Good Bro and buy lots of ThermoLife. :cool:

Skigazzi
03-26-2006, 08:23 PM
Id just like to say I think Rodney's offer is completely on the level.

If the rainbows can pimp their **** a month in advance before they even tell you whats in it on here, and get their fan base all hot and sweaty by giving it a colored name and saying ohhhhh here comes (insert color) (insert noun/verb), and stealing all attention from anything else in the same category, he can do this, and I wish him luck.

Though I do think there should be forums for this supplier specific stuff so reps dont argue, and so we can discuss supplements, and not get cut and paste answers from product write ups and be expected to except the information that the person trying to make a buck on a sale as legit....

UberBerzerker
03-26-2006, 08:24 PM
Just call me Dito Good Bro and buy lots of ThermoLife. :cool:

nah, no hype surrounding your company, you mustn't make good products ;)


okbackontopicthnx
<blink>RODNEY!!!!</blink>
where's the proof that esterfied BCAA's are superior to standard forms of BCAA's as found in purple wrath or similar products.

John_Milton
03-26-2006, 08:41 PM
lol....nice one.

Btw after all this hype on eaa's my money still goes to xtend. xtend+1 scoop of BSL watermelon wpi and I am set ;)

I second that --> Xtend + Body Octane blows away eveything else IMO


I agree its not "shady", but there are clearly alterior motives -- i.e., his product is getting no attention, and so this is an attempt to bring it back into the limelight.

Frankly, whether they do the comparison or not, I don't think Rodney cares. This has done what he wanted it to do.

Well put and pretty much sums things up.

beer20
03-26-2006, 11:55 PM
rodney,just curious how many tubs have you offered or actually given out yet?
thanx

Joel
03-27-2006, 12:48 AM
Rodney can I be your Rep please

RDupont
03-27-2006, 01:55 AM
rodney,just curious how many tubs have you offered or actually given out yet?
thanx

We will be giving out 5-6 tubs.

RDupont
03-27-2006, 01:57 AM
I second that --> Xtend + Body Octane blows away eveything else IMO


A statement like this can only be backed if you have tested the other products. By setting up testing procedures by people who have tried other similar products, all these "claims" people make on this forum can actually be warranted.

RDupont
03-27-2006, 01:59 AM
nah, no hype surrounding your company, you mustn't make good products ;)


okbackontopicthnx
<blink>RODNEY!!!!</blink>
where's the proof that esterfied BCAA's are superior to standard forms of BCAA's as found in purple wrath or similar products.

To be quite honest, esterification of aminos is so new that there are no published studies.
However all you have to do is scroll through this forum to find real-world feedback on CE, AE, etc., to see this esterification process does play a very signifigant role in increasing absporption. IMO Growth Factor is the most "stomach friendly" amino product this industry has ever seen.

UberBerzerker
03-27-2006, 06:21 AM
I'm not sure Gareth likes that answer..sorry Rod-a-monster ;)

<img src=http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=289856&stc=1&d=1143465689>

Ephedra
03-27-2006, 06:32 AM
Damn that dude is extremely ugly.

MCWTRAINER
03-27-2006, 06:41 AM
If you have an issue with me, please call my office or discuss it with me at a trade show, but the only thing I find unprofessional is you recycling the same hate posts each time I make mine.
Actually, I already have contacted you off of the forum. It was about 2 weeks ago. You have yet to respond back. Nice try though...

Ephedra
03-27-2006, 06:48 AM
I like this thread- it brings competition. Competition brings better products at lower prices. It's good for CL to have some competition, it seems they are on their way to monopolizing this damn board- which wouldn't be good.

UberBerzerker
03-27-2006, 06:51 AM
Damn that dude is extremely ugly.

REPORTED!!!!! OMFG!!

<img src=http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=289859&stc=1&d=1143467470>

MCWTRAINER
03-27-2006, 06:54 AM
Every post I make (all of which in the last month have been to send out free product!) you chime in on.
So all you do on this forum is offer free stuff? You don't help out in any other thread besides your giveaways? Are you trying to buy back customers with free stuff then?

The free products are great, I'm not going to tell any company they aren't. It's a great way to promote and sell your products when someone can try them for free. I just don't feel the approach was the way to go. It sounds like one company is trying to attack another companies products. Which from a couple months back started a huge company war on these boards. People were getting banned left and right for sticking up for their companies products while another company tried to put them down. I just don't see a difference here.

uhockey
03-27-2006, 07:03 AM
I don't see Rodney trying to attack.......at all. He's allowing people to compare and contrast. Hell, he was actually more complimentary of Purple Wrath than many would have been.

There is a huge difference between attacking (sending out misguiding product spam to testers) and openly asking for consumer comparison on the board.

MCWTRAINER
03-27-2006, 07:07 AM
I don't see Rodney trying to attack.......at all. He's allowing people to compare and contrast. Hell, he was actually more complimentary of Purple Wrath than many would have been.

There is a huge difference between attacking (sending out misguiding product spam to testers) and openly asking for consumer comparison on the board.
I am all for comparisons of products, I at least think you know I want that. I just would have rather had someone try it rather than another company stepping in and try and prove their products are better. We all know that when free products are sent out, the logs seem to be a little tainted... ;)

UberBerzerker
03-27-2006, 07:09 AM
when free products are sent out, the logs seem to be a little tainted... ;)

so you've already written off the purple wrath logs, yeah? yeah, me too ;)

MCWTRAINER
03-27-2006, 07:37 AM
so you've already written off the purple wrath logs, yeah? yeah, me too ;)
I'm just saying in general that when someone gets something for free they feel obligated to give a good review because they don't want to piss off the company. That is another reason I don't do many free giveaways. People bought the product on their own and gave some awesome reviews and logs. THAT is what I am personally looking for. What other companies do is their own choice...

nni
03-27-2006, 07:39 AM
been away for the weekend, so i wanted to catch up...

deser - i didnt say you picked the wrong side of the argument, just didnt win the argument.

dwm - the difference between chuck d calling out man and this is that rodney initiated this, and chuck d did that in response to a 3rd parties thread, and an argument with you. on top of that, we all know that chuck d himself is unproffesional.

mcw - i agree with you to an extent

twin peak - i felt the same way, testers or no, it was to bring the name of the product into the forefront, and every time we flame away, another member/guest will see Growth Factor on the first page, and go check it out. (your welcome for another bump rdupont)

hopefully you can all let this die, because so far there has been one applicant for testing, and testing will not be done because of the war of words that has passed.

that is all.

UberBerzerker
03-27-2006, 07:40 AM
I'm just saying in general that when someone gets something for free they feel obligated to give a good review because they don't want to piss off the company. That is another reason I don't do many free giveaways. People bought the product on their own and gave some awesome reviews and logs. THAT is what I am personally looking for. What other companies do is their own choice...

yes, I comprehend the meaning of your statements above, and that's why I said what I did about PW logs. Your blanket statement covers the PW situation, doesn't it? They are sending free stuff for people to log - you said that free stuff meant tainted logs, therefore, PW will have tainted logs.

jkeithc82
03-27-2006, 07:42 AM
I would just ask this question. Rodney has come back to the forum and offered some free products to members. He still really hasn't addressed a lot of past issues and nobody has really held him to it (save for a few members). Now if DanFizo, or Protein Factory were to come back to the forums today and do nothing but offer free products, would they get the same free pass?

UberBerzerker
03-27-2006, 07:46 AM
hmmm, I remember the issues brought up a while ago - but I thought, for some odd reason, they got figured out....guess not, eh?


what are we still waiting for answers on with regards to R-dupe doggy dog and his company? :p

warriors
03-27-2006, 07:48 AM
Now if DanFizo, or Protein Factory were to come back to the forums today and do nothing but offer free products, would they get the same free pass?

I dont know what it is but when ppl hear the word FREE they go crazy so what you said isn't a long shot by no means.

dwm230000
03-27-2006, 07:51 AM
dwm - the difference between chuck d calling out man and this is that rodney initiated this, and chuck d did that in response to a 3rd parties thread, and an argument with you. on top of that, we all know that chuck d himself is unproffesional.




What 3rd parties thread are you referring to? The same one I argued with him in or another thread?

nni
03-27-2006, 07:53 AM
What 3rd parties thread are you referring to? The same one I argued with him in or another thread?

the original argument, wasnt that just a normal user asking a question? im not saying that the argument wasnt a valid one, or criticizing that or anything, just saying this thread can from rdupont out of the blue, chuck's challenge came as a response to that original thread.

UberBerzerker
03-27-2006, 07:54 AM
I dont know what it is but when ppl hear the word FREE they go crazy so what you said isn't a long shot by no means.


OMFGWTFPDQ?!?!?!? DID YOU SAY FREE!?!?!?! WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET SOMETHING FREE!?!?!?!?!

dito
03-27-2006, 07:57 AM
As sure as **** attracts flies
CL and Nutra are full of lies.

dwm230000
03-27-2006, 08:00 AM
the original argument, wasnt that just a normal user asking a question? im not saying that the argument wasnt a valid one, or criticizing that or anything, just saying this thread can from rdupont out of the blue, chuck's challenge came as a response to that original thread.

Oh yeah, I agree with you on that. I just wasn't sure if there was another thread you were referring to when you said a 3rd parties thread and an argument with me, since Chuck also asked for comparisons to Size-on and the White Blood/Green Bulge stack in the same thread as Clout. My argument with him certainly did not cause him to do that(in fact he had tried to do the same thing with the GB/WB stack well before our argument). I am sure my argument caused him to do that with Clout, but I don't think that changes anything in reference to whether or not it is professional.

dito
03-27-2006, 08:01 AM
As sure as **** attracts flies
CL and Nutra are full of lies.

Controlled Labs
Nutrabolics too
They both suck

uhockey
03-27-2006, 08:09 AM
Controlled Labs
Nutrabolics too
They both suck

Is that a haiku? Lovely. :)

dito
03-27-2006, 08:11 AM
Just call me Dito Mr. Good Bro The Poet.

jkeithc82
03-27-2006, 08:13 AM
Is that a haiku? Lovely. :)

No, no. It doesn't follow the 5, 7, 5 syllable scheme. ;)

pharm
03-27-2006, 08:17 AM
YAY!! I'm gonna post something! (even though I don't really give a **** either way) ;)

Ok, here we go....
So, companies like CL and AX can create a wave of hype so large that it bogs down the server, and that's cool with you guys, nobody seems to mind that, right? cuz tank and pu are good dudes, yeah?- but a certain Rodney, not a good bro in some eyes, tries to ride one of those waves and you deem it ''shady'' or ''unacceptable''? That's hilarious. it's called good business, being competitive, staying on top of the market. So he wants to have people compare products, and he posted about it on the forum. He used a tool that every other company is using to create their own hype and help with marketing, so what?. He was upfront and open about it, and only wanted to put some of this crazy spot light on his own product. wouldn't any of you guys, if you owned a supp co. with a AA product, have done the same thing? I think you would have, whether you admit it or not. Who honestly would do a comparison on these two items on their own if not asked to or prompted by the company owners? Why not have a direct comparison log run, that's how we all benefit and find out who makes the best products (I personally don't think anyone could POSSIBLY tell the difference between the two products,just my .02)

ok, time to eat some anabolic, t-boosting, chocolate chip cookies....

"i second that emotion".....not that my opinion really matters.

uhockey
03-27-2006, 08:28 AM
No, no. It doesn't follow the 5, 7, 5 syllable scheme. ;)

Thought haiku was 3 5 3........what is that?

The Lesbian Poetry Poem generator says it can be 3-5-3 or 5-7-5 of 7-12-7.
http://www.melswebs.com/generators/poemgenerators.htm

jkeithc82
03-27-2006, 08:31 AM
Thought haiku was 3 5 3........what is that?

The Lesbian Poetry Poem generator says it can be 3-5-3 or 5-7-5 of 7-12-7.
http://www.melswebs.com/generators/poemgenerators.htm

Hmmmm, I have always known it to be 5, 7, 5. I will confess that I'm not an expect when it comes to Haiku writings however ;)

storm shadow
03-27-2006, 08:32 AM
[QUOTE=MCWTRAINER]I'm just saying in general that when someone gets something for free they feel obligated to give a good review because they don't want to piss off the company. QUOTE]
I disagree, being a tester, yeah I do want this product to give me good results so that I can give a good review on the product and reccomend it to others since CL is giving it to me for free, but this doesnt mean that I will, if there are any bad side effects I experience or if I notice no gains I will report it in the log. CL has even stated that they want all the details the good and the bad. To write off testers logs saying they will be biased is in a way insulting the testers ability to give goood reviews. Obviously a person who bought the product and gave a review would seem as a more reliable source but there is no guarantee that the review/log will be done. Dont take this the wrong way man I have agreed with a lot of youre points in this thread but I thought I would share my different prospective on this.

Skigazzi
03-27-2006, 08:49 AM
"i second that emotion".....not that my opinion really matters.

I third this. The only people that get their panties up in a wad when rodney comes around anymore seems to be the 'reps' who 'work' for companies that have products that compete with Nutrabolics, and it gets old fast.

RDupont
03-27-2006, 09:08 AM
I third this. The only people that get their panties up in a wad when rodney comes around anymore seems to be the 'reps' who 'work' for companies that have products that compete with Nutrabolics, and it gets old fast.

That is why I try not to address these reps, or even rebuttal with them, because it just doesnt end.
BTW - the new VPX product you mentioned (Synthesize-EAA) looks like it definitely fits into this category of products, and would make for a great comparison test as well!

jkeithc82
03-27-2006, 09:14 AM
That is why I try not to address these reps, or even rebuttal with them, because it just doesnt end.


Actually, the reps are really not the ones you should address. More like the buying customers in this thread.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=541286&highlight=nutrabolics

I couldn't care less honestly, but you aren't answering the non reps that are actually posing questions to you. Like I stated earlier, if DanFizo or Protein Factory came back would they get the same happy treatment?

RDupont
03-27-2006, 10:01 AM
Actually, the reps are really not the ones you should address. More like the buying customers in this thread.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=541286&highlight=nutrabolics

I couldn't care less honestly, but you aren't answering the non reps that are actually posing questions to you. Like I stated earlier, if DanFizo or Protein Factory came back would they get the same happy treatment?

WHo are you to make the rules?
You, and MCW, both of which "rep" for other companies, have literally invaded this thread.
DO you want to test Growth Factor?
Dont you have a product called Xtend you rep for?
Now it all makes sense. If you are not satisfied with Xtend, and want to test our Growth Factor (which is an esterified version of Xtend, with added EAA's for enhanced results) then please send me a PM and I will gladly send you a bottle.
If not, then please make your own threads...

jkeithc82
03-27-2006, 10:08 AM
WHo are you to make the rules?
You, and MCW, both of which "rep" for other companies, have literally invaded this thread.
DO you want to test Growth Factor?
Dont you have a product called Xtend you rep for?
Now it all makes sense. If you are not satisfied with Xtend, and want to test our Growth Factor (which is an esterified version of Xtend, with added EAA's for enhanced results) then please send me a PM and I will gladly send you a bottle.
If not, then please make your own threads...

Not interested in Growth Factor myself thanks. They are not competing products either so nice try. Spin all you wish Rod, the fact is, you cannot answer the past questions and unfortunately nobody has held your company to the fire like they did several months ago. Sorry if we would just like answers to looming questions that were posed a long time ago.