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Robboe
02-20-2006, 11:11 AM
VIGOR™ FAQ

VIGOR™ will be available immediately after the Arnold Classic Expo in early March, 2006.

Q. What exactly is a free radical and why should I care?


Free radicals are molecules with unpaired electrons. Because of this structure, they are very unstable and so seek out other molecules with which they can combine to develop some sort of stability. It is when the radicals find their targets and collide that the majority of the damage is done.

Q. What damage?


Anything from aging, to atherosclerosis, to cancer, to recovery and growth inhibition and much more equally harmful stuff.

Q. What causes free radicals?


As stated in the product write-up, “There are numerous origins of free radical formation including pollution in the air, drug use, chemicals in the food and drink we consume, pesticides and contaminants on crops and even exercise (as waste products of cellular respiration).”

Q. Will I notice a difference straight away when I use VIGOR™?


It is not something you will “feel” per se, but if you currently don’t consume enough fruit and vegetables (which most people simply don’t), then over time you will notice a mildly reduced recovery time and even a mild increase in the rate of gains. Health-wise you will feel like a million dollars.

Q. Where can I buy the product?


Check our retailers section.

Q. How many servings per bottle?


Based on a two capsules per day usage, each bottle, containing 60 capsules, would last 30 days.

Q. Should I cycle VIGOR™?


Normally for Designer Supplements or Designer Stackables products we recommend you cycle all supplements except for multivitamins and minerals, protein powder and anti-oxidants. Given that VIGOR™ caters for the anti-oxidant aspect, it can and should be run year-round.

Q. The label says “ORAC” and “µmolesTE”. What do these terms mean?


ORAC stands for Oxygen Radical Absorption Capacity, which, in layman’s, measures the anti-oxidant activity of a substance or compound. Generally speaking, the higher the ORAC value the better.

“µmolesTE” is shorthand for micromoles/trolox equivalents. Without making it too confusing, it’s basically a method of standardizing ORAC.

Q. So is 5800 ORAC µmolesTE good?


The USDA recommends the average adult gets about 3000-5000 ORAC units per day, so yeah, it is pretty superb.

Q. I already consume fruit with breakfast and vegetables with my evening meal, so do I still need VIGOR™?


Absolutely. While you have a good base, those portions alone will not be enough to supply you with enough ORAC units.

Q. What dose of VIGOR™ do you recommend for me?


At least two caps per day, even if you do consume 2-3 portions of fruit and vegetables per day already. Space them out over breakfast and post-workout if you like.

Q. Why post-workout?


Because after a strenuous workout, oxidative stress is often at its worst due to the increased cellular respiration from training. At this time, the body can either begin the recuperation phases of recovery that eventually lead to growth and strength, or further tissue damage can occur if the body is not prepared for the attack. Using VIGOR™ at this time helps prime your cells towards recovery and growth.

Q. Is VIGOR™ ok for vegetarians?


Yes. But vegans must beware that the capsules are gelatin-based.

Q. There is a warning in the write-up about using VIGOR™ with stimulants. What does this mean?


Your body has a means of metabolizing drugs and toxins, through a collection of various enzymes. Certain extracts present in VIGOR™ can inhibit these enzymes, thereby delaying the rate at which your body can process compounds like stimulants etc. The extract content of VIGOR™ is not hugely significant to cause any major issue, but those more sensitive to stimulants and such may feel slightly more uncomfortable combining the two. If you give it 90 minutes or so after taking VIGOR™, the use of stimulants will be fine.

Q. What about any particular health conditions?


Always check with your doctor before using any supplements.

The full write-up in PDF format is attached.

KeyHAWK
02-20-2006, 11:12 AM
Looks good!

RollerSkates
02-20-2006, 11:17 AM
Wait, is it me or is the label unclear to the amount of vitamin c and e

The Godfatha
02-20-2006, 11:20 AM
Looks good except the ingredients on the label seems a bit screwed up with the quantity not being in line with the specific ingredients?

Robboe
02-20-2006, 11:22 AM
Well spotted. I've managed to upload the draft label and delete the final version.

RollerSkates
02-20-2006, 11:40 AM
Well spotted. I've managed to upload the draft label and delete the final version.
looks excellent, do you feel this could be used as a replacement for a vegetable Greens supplement?

G.W. Hayduke
02-20-2006, 11:43 AM
I love fruit based antioxidants! This will be a nice addition to my mangosteen and immortality drink.

BTW, this reminds of something I heard about the fabled Atlantis. Apparently the people there had a technology that allowed them to concentrate all of the most powerful life promoting aspects of foods. They would take these drinks and live forever. Products like Vigor where natural foods are concentrated always reminds me of this story.

SoleCollector
02-20-2006, 12:06 PM
How much? Would you like me to test some with GXR ;)

Trans_Isomer
02-20-2006, 12:09 PM
Should be good to use with NO supps since they are so popular but most are unaware the Nitric Oxide molecule causes cellular damage

nick912
02-20-2006, 12:10 PM
I am a huge fan of AOX and am looking foward trying long term use of this pending how much it is.
Right now I switch back between Beverly and NO-Xidant year round

SoleCollector
02-20-2006, 12:13 PM
This stuff really looks good, but I dont think I'm going to have like 20 bucks to throw away for some anti-oxidants.

dito
02-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Yeah, give us some hints about pricing.

MuZI
02-20-2006, 12:20 PM
I love fruit based antioxidants! This will be a nice addition to my mangosteen and immortality drink.

BTW, this reminds of something I heard about the fabled Atlantis. Apparently the people there had a technology that allowed them to concentrate all of the most powerful life promoting aspects of foods. They would take these drinks and live forever. Products like Vigor where natural foods are concentrated always reminds me of this story.

I like that, DS should use it as a ad.

I'm pretty sure this will be a reasonable priced staple since it is in the stackables line up.

uhockey
02-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Should be good to use with NO supps since they are so popular but most are unaware the Nitric Oxide molecule causes cellular damage

Precisely. We've been suggesting GXR post-workout for this reason in the past, but I feel VIGOR is a far better solution. This product makes me proud.

uhockey
02-20-2006, 12:43 PM
looks excellent, do you feel this could be used as a replacement for a vegetable Greens supplement?

Since most vegetable greens supps are merely being taken for ORAC, I'd say yes.

uhockey
02-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Yeah, give us some hints about pricing.

Armando, you, like everyone else know that all we can give is MSRP and the retailers will cut the price severly from that. First, I don't know our MSRP, but as it's a stackable, it'll be competitive.

Trans_Isomer
02-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Precisely. We've been suggesting GXR post-workout for this reason in the past, but I feel VIGOR is a far better solution. This product makes me proud.

The ingredients are something to be very proud of.

Now the one thing to remain is the price. If its good, then I think I have my new anti-ox formula :)

Thumbs up to DS for this one!

G.W. Hayduke
02-20-2006, 12:46 PM
Since most vegetable greens supps are merely being taken for ORAC, I'd say yes.
EXACTLY!!!

You can always rely on DS to notice the details. This is what makes Vigor above and beyond IMO.

dito
02-20-2006, 12:53 PM
Armando, you, like everyone else know that all we can give is MSRP and the retailers will cut the price severly from that. First, I don't know our MSRP, but as it's a stackable, it'll be competitive.


That's what I was looking for :) Or some sort of guesstimate that online retailer pricing.

SoleCollector
02-20-2006, 12:59 PM
I hope Vitamin Shoppe gets this. I have a little coupon trick(feel free to PM me), where you get like a secret section with free shipping and crazy discounts.
Glucophase..$28..... AcTivate..$31..... Xceed..$25..... Basic Cuts..$13..... Sesamin..24$..... FenoTest..$24..... Opt. Whey..$24...... all with free ship :)

Lonny
02-20-2006, 01:50 PM
The wait is over.

Congrats on this guys.

uhockey
02-20-2006, 05:33 PM
The wait is over.

Congrats on this guys.

Thank you sir. I had to offer my soul to Steve to get this product out there....ok, not really, but I did beg a lot and get the ball a' rollin'. :) Buy some, make me look good. :D

factotum
02-20-2006, 10:28 PM
So will this replace my other anti oxidant products like Green Tea Extract, NAC, Idebenone, RALA, etc?

SoleCollector
02-20-2006, 10:33 PM
So will this replace my other anti oxidant products like Green Tea Extract, NAC, Idebenone, RALA, etc?
I guess, but keep in mind:
Green Tea: somewhat stimulant, aids in fatloss
R-ALA: Mimicks insulin
NAC: Helps with recovery

Robboe
02-21-2006, 06:29 AM
I use green tea extract for the EGCG's mostly, so i'd recommend you maintain it in your regimen if financially feasible.

NAC has never really interested me, but a lot of people like it so i guess it must have some merit.

Robboe
02-21-2006, 06:31 AM
Armando, you, like everyone else know that all we can give is MSRP and the retailers will cut the price severly from that. First, I don't know our MSRP, but as it's a stackable, it'll be competitive.

I have $20 in my head for some stupid reason, but it may be $25.

Either way, i see it retailing for $15-20, which, for 1-2 month's worth (depending on frequency of use), is money very well spent in my opinion.

uhockey
02-21-2006, 08:23 AM
I have $20 in my head for some stupid reason, but it may be $25.

Either way, i see it retailing for $15-20, which, for 1-2 month's worth (depending on frequency of use), is money very well spent in my opinion.

This is purely anecdote, but I ran the constituents of this product at 1 cap a day for the winter and despite being around extremely sick persons I never came down with anything. I lived with people who had colds, I examined people who had colds, and 95% of my peers had colds.

uhockey
02-21-2006, 08:25 AM
I guess, but keep in mind:
Green Tea: somewhat stimulant, aids in fatloss
R-ALA: Mimicks insulin
NAC: Helps with recovery

Green Tea = ECGC. I wouldn't give up Lean Green, period.

R-ALA = Poor stability. I wouldn't use.

K-R-ALA = DOES NOT mimick insulin. Look up "potentiates." K-R-ALA is all well and good, but instead of taking large doses in Glucophase, one can pair GXR with Vigor and take 1 cap of each daily to stretch the bottles.

NAC = Overrated unless you OD on tylenol, IMO.

Lonny
02-21-2006, 09:07 AM
This is purely anecdote, but I ran the constituents of this product at 1 cap a day for the winter and despite being around extremely sick persons I never came down with anything. I lived with people who had colds, I examined people who had colds, and 95% of my peers had colds.

What about in relation to limiting hangover prevention/severity? I know you don't drink excessively Mike, but did you have anyone else using it that noticed anything?

Also Mike, being in ohio, do you ever suffer from any slight SAD symptoms during the winter? If so, did this have any impact on them?

Skigazzi
02-21-2006, 10:02 AM
If the high ORAC rating is what is being targeted (as the marketing would suggest), then what advantage would this blend have at an ORAC rating of 5800 per serving versus a single capsule of quality green tea extract (lean green for example) which likely has an ORAC of 8000-10000? or a cap of GTE along with a good multi?


(assuming 1000 ORAC in a cup of GT (which is conservative), with the extract being good for 10 cups which is a fairly standard assumption).

Robboe
02-21-2006, 10:05 AM
I have $20 in my head for some stupid reason, but it may be $25.

Either way, i see it retailing for $15-20, which, for 1-2 month's worth (depending on frequency of use), is money very well spent in my opinion.

Ok, i have confirmation - the MSRP is $34.99, so i'd imagine retailers to typically sell for $21-24.

Robboe
02-21-2006, 10:09 AM
If the high ORAC rating is what is being targeted (as the marketing would suggest), then what advantage would this blend have at an ORAC rating of 5800 per serving versus a single capsule of quality green tea extract (lean green for example) which likely has an ORAC of 8000-10000? or a cap of GTE along with a good multi?


(assuming 1000 ORAC in a cup of GT (which is conservative), with the extract being good for 10 cups which is a fairly standard assumption).

Is that right? 1000 ORAC in a cup of GT?

Skigazzi
02-21-2006, 10:11 AM
Is that right? 1000 ORAC in a cup of GT?

Ive been looking at various studies, and thats ballpark, black tea seems to fall in around 500-700, GT seems to fall in around 800-1200.

Skigazzi
02-21-2006, 10:13 AM
Ive been looking at various studies, and thats ballpark, black tea seems to fall in around 500-700, GT seems to fall in around 800-1200.

EDIT - I mis-read it ---- the study was on extract....not tea.
EDIT again - im not sure if the numbers I bolded are for Tea, or extract, its very vague, but I think its per gram of tea leaves, not extract.


Catechin content of 18 teas and a green tea extract supplement correlates with the antioxidant capacity.

Henning SM, Fajardo-Lira C, Lee HW, Youssefian AA, Go VL, Heber D.

UCLA Center for Human Nutrition, School of Medicine, Warren Hall 14-166, 900 Veteran Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA. shenning@mednet.ucla.edu

Our literature review of currently available data in the area of tea and cancer prevention demonstrated that there is more conclusive evidence for the chemopreventive effect of green tea compared with black tea. We suggest that this is due to a large variation of the flavanol content in tea, which is not taken into consideration in most of the epidemiological studies. It was the purpose of this study to determine the flavanol content of various teas and tea products and to correlate it with their radical scavenging activity. A modified oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) assay at pH 5.5 was utilized. The total flavavol content varied from 21.2 to 103.2 mg/g for regular teas and from 4.6 to 39.0 mg/g for decaffeinated teas. The ORAC value varied from 728 to 1686 trolox equivalents/g tea for regular teas and from 507 to 845 trolox equivalents/g for decaffeinated teas. There was a significant correlation of flavanol content to ORAC value (r = 0.79, P = 0.0001) for the teas and green tea extract. The large variation in flavanol content and ORAC value among various brands and types of tea provides critical information for investigators using tea in studies of nutrition and cancer prevention.

---------------------------------------
One more, pretty sure this is per gram of tea leaf

C. FAJARDO-LIRA1, S. M. Henning2, H. W. Lee2, V. L. W. Go2, and D. Heber2. (1) Department Family Environmental Sciences/Nutrition, Dietetics & Food Science, California State University, 18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge, CA 91330, (2) UCLA Center for Human Nutrition, 900 Veterans Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1742

Epidemiological studies have reported an association between tea consumption and decreased risks of developing certain types of cancer, coronary heart disease, and the incidence of stroke. However, results have not been reproduced consistently. These beneficial health effects have been attributed to the presence of polyphenols, such as catechins, in black and green tea. Our objective was to determine the polyphenol content of different brands of black and green tea and its relationship to their antioxidant capacity measured by the oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) assay. Eleven different brands of black tea and eight brands of green teas were purchased from local supermarkets. Individual tea bags were brewed in 100 ml of boiling water for 3 minutes. The ORAC value for the brewed tea samples was determined using a modification of the method described by Cao and Prior (1999). HPLC analysis was used to measure the catechin, gallic acid and theaflavin content in the tea samples. The polyphenol content varied from 9.8 mg to 216.7 mg/100 ml brewed tea in decaf black and green tea, respectively. The polyphenol content was significantly lower in decaf vs. regular tea. ORAC values varied from 506 mmol TE/g decaf black tea to 1686 mmol TE/g green tea. The ORAC value was significantly associated with the polyphenol content (r=0.79). These results suggest a strong correlation between polyphenol content of tea samples and their antioxidant capacity as measured by the modified ORAC assay. The significant variation in polyphenol content among various brands of tea might explain the inconsistency in epidemiological studies mentioned above.

SoleCollector
02-21-2006, 12:04 PM
21-24 is too much for antioxidants!

Blap Blaow
02-21-2006, 12:18 PM
21-24 is too much for antioxidants!
so don't buy them :cool:

SoleCollector
02-21-2006, 01:22 PM
so don't buy them :cool:
But I want it :(

uhockey
02-21-2006, 01:56 PM
What about in relation to limiting hangover prevention/severity? I know you don't drink excessively Mike, but did you have anyone else using it that noticed anything?

Also Mike, being in ohio, do you ever suffer from any slight SAD symptoms during the winter? If so, did this have any impact on them?

To be honest Lonny, depression isn't something I can attribute to me, ever. I'm quite lithium normally, absolutely stable at a bit of an apathetic level.....until something pisses me off, then you see the other moods. There are other facets like the happy "hanging out with friends" me too, obviously, but baseline mood is either pissed or stable. :)

And no, I don't hang out with drunkards, it's beneath me.

Lonny
02-21-2006, 03:00 PM
To be honest Lonny, depression isn't something I can attribute to me, ever. I'm quite lithium normally, absolutely stable at a bit of an apathetic level.....until something pisses me off, then you see the other moods. There are other facets like the happy "hanging out with friends" me too, obviously, but baseline mood is either pissed or stable. :)

And no, I don't hang out with drunkards, it's beneath me.

Such a good boy you are. :)

What i was trying to get at is that most decrease their intake of fruits and veggies during the winter months due to the lack of available stuff "in season" and at their disposal, which also of course leads to lowered immune system ect. This would appear to be a supplement that would be most beneficial during the fall and winter months.

By SAD i didn't mean the full blown medical term, but rather any of the symptoms in any small amount from the lack of sun. Lethargy, mood swings, increased stress, or change in sleeping patterns. Mind you, im not all that familar with Ohio weather and snow conditions, but as a student who sees a lot of snow and a lot of darkness during winter months, there is slight changes in my (and many others i know) personalities from season to season. Maybe its just a Canadian thing though :).

uhockey
02-21-2006, 03:03 PM
By SAD i didn't mean the full blown medical term, but rather any of the symptoms in any small amount from the lack of sun. Lethargy, mood swings, increased stress, or change in sleeping patterns. Mind you, im not all that familar with Ohio weather and snow conditions, but as a student who sees a lot of snow and a lot of darkness during winter months, there is slight changes in my (and many others i know) personalities from season to season. Maybe its just a Canadian thing though :).

I get SAD in the summer, when I realize there's no hockey and I'm stuck in the hospital while everyone else is out watching baseball and enjoying BBQs and concerts. :) I understand your points though and agree.

Like I said, this supplement is GREAT year around since most people just don't eat enough veggies. I've always been an avid consumer of vegetables, even when I was overweight, because I like them. Most people don't think Broc****, PB, and Chicken in a bowl is a delicacy however. :)

nni
02-21-2006, 03:08 PM
I get SAD in the summer, when I realize there's no hockey and I'm stuck in the hospital while everyone else is out watching baseball and enjoying BBQs and concerts. :) I understand your points though and agree.

Like I said, this supplement is GREAT year around since most people just don't eat enough veggies. I've always been an avid consumer of vegetables, even when I was overweight, because I like them. Most people don't think Broc****, PB, and Chicken in a bowl is a delicacy however. :)

im gonna look into this product.

and you should play hockey, it goes year round ;) im in a fall league, spring starts this week and then a summer 4 on 4 league. do it !!!!

uhockey
02-21-2006, 03:35 PM
im gonna look into this product.

and you should play hockey, it goes year round ;) im in a fall league, spring starts this week and then a summer 4 on 4 league. do it !!!!

I played a ton in the past. Now it's too far, 30ish miles to the local rinks with drop-in and generally at hours that don't work with my life. Taking it into account it's a 4 hour trip. :( I miss it, a lot, but lifting/cardio is so much more convenient.

nni
02-21-2006, 03:43 PM
I played a ton in the past. Now it's too far, 30ish miles to the local rinks with drop-in and generally at hours that don't work with my life. Taking it into account it's a 4 hour trip. :( I miss it, a lot, but lifting/cardio is so much more convenient.

your a doc, when you get (or already have) your big house, there is an artificial ice surface that is real close. set up a room for it!!!

uhockey
02-21-2006, 04:54 PM
your a doc, when you get (or already have) your big house, there is an artificial ice surface that is real close. set up a room for it!!!

I've never claimed to be a doctor. At the current moment I owe the US Gov't the price of a couple Jaguars.

Additionally, doctors don't make that much in today's economy.

Let's get back to the FAQ.

G.W. Hayduke
02-21-2006, 07:13 PM
And no, I don't hang out with drunkards, it's beneath me.
I guess that means we wont be chillin together at the Arnold. :D

SoleCollector
02-21-2006, 09:22 PM
Where are the Arnolds going to be and how much is it?

Robboe
02-22-2006, 03:19 AM
Columbus, Ohio in 2 weeks and i dunno. $10/day to get into the expo probably.

uhockey
02-22-2006, 03:24 AM
Columbus, Ohio in 2 weeks and i dunno. $10/day to get into the expo probably.


Where are the Arnolds going to be and how much is it?


And if you come, be sure to say "Hi, It's OMGitsMaxx" and I shouldn't be taking the NHA stack at age 17!!!

uhockey
02-22-2006, 12:04 PM
Ah Max, I love ya. Try to keep in mind this is for your own good and the good of your endocrine system. While the world would likely be better off if you don't procreate, I am a responsible future health professional and won't tolerate your ignorance.

That picture is me 2 years ago, I've never touched a prohormone in my life, I lost 100+lbs to get to where I am today, and the girl is my sister. The lego man is sexy. You and your childish antics really need a new hobby.

Blap Blaow
02-22-2006, 12:08 PM
LIES!!!! The Lego-man's knee's were too knobbly for my liking :cool:

BTW- I'm assuming $21-24 means about £25 here? Hmmm...

TexAss
02-22-2006, 12:11 PM
Can they not ban someone by IP? Can't believe this guy keeps coming back.

MuZI
02-22-2006, 12:12 PM
Max, is that you?

You have some weird complex.

I saw feud between you and yl16, you're a moron for even trying to fight that behemoth.

Good luck with your NHA log.

___________________________________________

Either way, i see it retailing for $15-20, which, for 1-2 month's worth (depending on frequency of use), is money very well spent in my opinion.

If it is around $15 I'm def adding this over the summer.

beer20
02-22-2006, 12:31 PM
BallysMVP wanted to fight yl16, again, thats not me...
Wierd Complex?
Yo that anorexic moron Uhockey just puts me down to -17000, this is war on DS..
if you have a problem with uhockey or DS please keep it out of this FAQ.

SoleCollector
02-22-2006, 12:33 PM
if you have a problem with uhockey or DS please keep it out of this FAQ.
Done. :D

dito
02-22-2006, 12:43 PM
and the girl is my sister. .

So, when are you going to give me her number?

MuZI
02-22-2006, 04:55 PM
I don't know much about Anti-Oxidants but after some advanced research (1) I'm wondering if this is a overall anti-oxidant and contains all anti-oxidants a person would need or should they still take something extra?

The caps have gelatin? Kosher?

1.) How Stuff Works: Antioxidants
http://home.howstuffworks.com/antioxidant3.htm

Mister_A
02-22-2006, 05:02 PM
Sweet. Another DS product. :D

Twin Peak
03-01-2006, 11:03 AM
Should be available on bb.com in ~2 weeks.

cxm
03-01-2006, 11:36 AM
Cool product, I really like the ingredients. I will definitely buy this, great job DS! :)

vegHead
03-01-2006, 11:40 AM
ooh nice looking product. Im a big whore for food based antioxidants so ill definetly buy this. Im just curious as to why you didnt include blueberry in your mix as I've always read that it the the best antioxidant.

cxm
03-01-2006, 11:44 AM
Is vitamin C and E part of the VIGOR Anti-O-Matrix blend, and if not are you at liberty to mention how much Vitamin C and E is in each serving? Thanks

uhockey
03-01-2006, 05:33 PM
Is vitamin C and E part of the VIGOR Anti-O-Matrix blend, and if not are you at liberty to mention how much Vitamin C and E is in each serving? Thanks

It is NOT part of the matrix, but an addition. As everyone from DS is either on their way to or already at the Arnold I cannot obtain the info until I return. :)

40-Yard Dash_2
03-01-2006, 05:56 PM
It is NOT part of the matrix, but an addition. As everyone from DS is either on their way to or already at the Arnold I cannot obtain the info until I return. :)
You guys have a blast!

zeppelin
03-01-2006, 07:24 PM
i think they forgot this was still out there

http://www.charliefrancis.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=2

FROSTBYTE
Building your Free Radical Firewall
(A CF.com Exclusive)

Over the last few months, antioxidants were targeted as a potential health hazard for those supplementing their diets with extra vitamin A, C, and E and this has left athletes at a loss in what to do with their nutritional needs. Like many, you may be frustrated with seeing laundry lists of rare Chinese mushrooms, exotic vitamin juices, and secret Russian herbs prescribed by gurus and clever marketing. Examining the literature further, the oxidative stress with athletes is real and should be dealt with precise dietary changes and training design safeguards. With all of the antioxidant supplements available, deciding on what formula is optimal could be a burden. Fortunately, the FROST product stands alone as one the most practical and sound formulas available.

Free Radical Damage - Hype or Horror?

FROST stands for Free Radical Oxidation Stress Terminator and was designed to support athletes during heavy training and competition. While the existence of the formula was due to the need of nutritional support from training, current fads of mega doses have been plaguing the industry with scare tactics of free radical damage from exercise. Free radicals are not new evils of exercise, just products of metabolic reactions and can be delt with fairly easily.

Chemically speaking, free radicals are uncharged atomic or molecular species with unpaired electrons that are released in the natural reactions that occur in our body. In order to neutralize themselves from their electrical charge, free radicals seek out electrons from other substances in our bodies such as cell membranes. Thanks to evolution, compounds such as enzymes, phytonutrients, metal binding proteins, and nutrient derived antioxidants from our diets protect us against ROS (reactive oxygen species) and keep us healthy.

During intense exercise, the body's uptake of oxygen can be at skyrocketing rates and this surge increases the electron flux of the mitochondrial electron transport chain, creating the need to neutralize free radicals rapidly. When training has ceased, the body is in dire need of support from internal mechanisms from oxidative stress. Our protective systems includes an array of vitamins such as the fat-soluble antioxidants such as vitamin E and beta-carotene and the water soluble antioxidant, vitamin C. Antioxidant enzymes such as superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (CAT), and selenium-dependent glutathione peroxidase (GPX), all counteracting free radical release.

Priming your Antioxidant System- Maximize recovery with FROST

After intense training, two pathways are possible to athletes and one of them is an upregulated adaptation that can allow the body to defend more effectively against free radicals. The other possible pathway that can occur is tissue damage if the support system is not prepared for the oxidative stress. Sound training loads are part of the responsibility of the coach and program but walking the fine line can be made easier with an antioxidant safety net. The FROST formula was designed to be flexible enough to respond to the daily needs priming the enzymes, phytonutrients, and vitamins for normal biological functions as well as to counteract acute demands of supra-maximal training such as sprinting and intense weight training. Athletes that utilize FROST can receive the following benefits:

A Strong ORAC- The ORAC acronym stands for Oxygen Radical Absorption Capacity and is used to score the antioxidant potential of foods and supplements. USDA researchers say that the average person needs approximately 3,000 to 5,000 ORAC units per day to have a significant impact on plasma and tissue antioxidant capacity. FROST delivers 5850 ORAC units to athletes in one daily serving.

Apoptosis Accelerators - Apoptosis in programmed cell death that is vital to health and the FROST formula contains ellagic acid that stimulates turnover of sick, abnormal, or underperforming cells. The proprietary blend of polyphenols, a nthocyanins and proanthocyanins also perform a variety of important functions to athletes, such as supporting the organs and tissues of the body. Cells that are weak are then encouraged to be replaced by newer and healthier cells.

Apoptosis is a natural defense against cancer and other malfunctions to the body.

Cortisol Neutralizing Ability - When taken in the Alarm Dose (4 capsules) after extreme loads of heavy competition, the stable ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) can reduce elevated cortisol (1,2,3). It is highly suggested that athletes and coaches use this benefit when only necessary since constant heavy workloads can increase the chances of overtraining and injury.

CNS Fatigue Support- The B-Pro Matrix includes five B vitamins involved in every bodily function that requires cell division. Folic acid is used to regenerate red blood cells, rebuild new muscle, and provide athletes with new nervous system chemicals for explosive movements. Also included in the B-Pro Matrix are following,Thiamin Hcl, Ribovflavin, Niacinamide, and Pyrodoxine Hcl.

FROST contains pharmaceutical grade ingredients and has no ingredients that are banned by the NCAA, IOC, FINA, FIFA, IAAF, and other governing bodies aligned with drug free sport. Each bottle includes 45 servings or 6 weeks of antioxidant support and is in capsule form. It is suggested that athletes take one capsule with breakfast and dinner daily or up to four capsules post competition or after workouts that are of the highest intensity.

Cortisol References

1. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2003 Jun;13(2):125-51. Vitamin C: effects of exercise and requirements with training. Peake JM.

2. J Interferon Cytokine Res. 2000 Nov;20(11):1029-35. Influence of vitamin C supplementation on cytokine changes following an ultramarathon. Nieman DC , Peters EM, Henson DA, Nevines EI, Thompson MM.

3. Int J Sports Med. 2001 Feb;22(2):120-6. Attenuation of increase in circulating cortisol and enhancement of the acute phase protein response in vitamin C-supplemented ultramarathoners. Peters EM, Anderson R, Theron AJ.

Active Ingredients: Frost Pro Proprietary Matrix of exclusive Patent Pending ORAC+Manufacturing Process [Grape Seed Extract 95%, Bilberry Powder, Blueberry Powder, Cranberry Powder, Prune Powder, Raspberry Seed Powder, Resveratrol. Quercetin, Tart Cherry Powder], Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Acetate, B-Pro matrix [Thiamin Hcl, Ribovflavin, Niacinamide, Pyrodoxine Hcl, Folic Acid].

Other Ingredients: Magnesium stearate, gelatin, silica.

cody3308
03-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Is vitamin C and E part of the VIGOR Anti-O-Matrix blend, and if not are you at liberty to mention how much Vitamin C and E is in each serving? Thanks
Most likely 500 mg Vit C and 400 IU Vit E, any reason Selenium wasn't included?


EDIT: Above post...it says Frost is no longer an active product.

Blap Blaow
03-01-2006, 07:43 PM
, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Acetate, B-Pro matrix [Thiamin Hcl, Ribovflavin, Niacinamide, Pyrodoxine Hcl, Folic Acid].

Other Ingredients: Magnesium stearate, gelatin, silica.

That site dosn't sell that poduct anymore but I still don't get it. The list of ingredients are identical, as are the blends. They both even call the second blend the 'B-Pro Matrix'.

uhockey
03-01-2006, 07:54 PM
That site dosn't sell that poduct anymore but I still don't get it. The list of ingredients are identical, as are the blends. They both even call the second blend the 'B-Pro Matrix'.

:) Neat, huh?

I'm sure some people can put 2+2 together, for others I'll simply not divulge the info unless TP gives the okay. For the time being, suffice it to say FROST isn't available, and Vigor is born of talks stemming back to October. It just took me a while to sell Steve on the idea.

Blap Blaow
03-01-2006, 07:58 PM
:) Neat, huh?

I'm sure some people can put 2+2 together, for others I'll simply not divulge the info unless TP gives the okay. For the time being, suffice it to say FROST isn't available, and Vigor is born of talks stemming back to October. It just took me a while to sell Steve on the idea.
Interesting. A theory had occured to me :)

As for availability- it seems pretty available here in the UK? Actually, I see it for £5 ($8.74 US) here on eBay and £25 in an online store!

EDIT: I misread it- that's actually £25 for 4 bottles.

cody3308
03-01-2006, 08:21 PM
That site dosn't sell that poduct anymore but I still don't get it. The list of ingredients are identical, as are the blends. They both even call the second blend the 'B-Pro Matrix'.
Basically DS either bought the rights to the blend... or maybe the original maker is no longer selling it, so DS decided to use the formula.

Blap Blaow
03-02-2006, 08:53 AM
Basically DS either bought the rights to the blend... or maybe the original maker is no longer selling it, so DS decided to use the formula.
thanks............................................ :rolleyes:

uhockey
03-05-2006, 02:48 AM
Hey all, still at the Arnold. We got in our very first shipment of Vigor AT the show and have nearly sold it out at this point.....at the prices we're charging at this thing you'd assume so......::cough:: $10 ::cough::

I also talked to the people about FROST and according to the maker of the product there is VERY little of it left and it has been d/ced As I said, there is an obvious relationship between the two products.

I know for a fact that Chuck Rudolph, Androgenic from MAN, ItallionStallion, and a lot of the Molecular nutrtion fellas picked some up. :)

Tkenshin
03-11-2006, 01:39 AM
when will vigor be on BB.com?

uhockey
03-11-2006, 03:21 AM
I was told it shipped last week, I will inquire further. I hope soon.

Tkenshin
03-11-2006, 02:05 PM
thnx cuz i wanted to purchase my order from bb alrdy but waiting for vigor to arrive.

Robboe
03-12-2006, 05:52 AM
It was shipped to us last week to be dispersed around retailers, but i don't think it's getting to us until Monday for whatever reason. It'll go out instantly though.

Tkenshin
03-12-2006, 03:01 PM
It was shipped to us last week to be dispersed around retailers, but i don't think it's getting to us until Monday for whatever reason. It'll go out instantly though.
thank you, damn i hope its not more than 25 dollars.

G.W. Hayduke
03-12-2006, 04:42 PM
Did I mention yet that Vigor is the shiznit?

Skigazzi
03-12-2006, 04:47 PM
If the high ORAC rating is what is being targeted (as the marketing would suggest), then what advantage would this blend have at an ORAC rating of 5800 per serving versus a single capsule of quality green tea extract (lean green for example) which likely has an ORAC of 8000-10000? or a cap of GTE along with a good multi? A cup of tea is about 500-1000 ORAC according to published studies. Studies posted in POST # 34

(assuming 1000 ORAC in a cup of GT (which is conservative), with the extract being good for 10 cups which is a fairly standard assumption).

Self-bumpage for discussion :cool:

factotum
03-12-2006, 04:47 PM
Did I mention yet that Vigor is the shiznit?

Better than X-factor?!?! ;) Would this be a good combo to stack together?

sublimejeh
03-12-2006, 04:50 PM
is it first only being shipped to bb.com or other retailers as well?

G.W. Hayduke
03-12-2006, 05:04 PM
Better than X-factor?!?! ;) Would this be a good combo to stack together?
In terms of ORAC... yes, it is better than X-Factor... :D

I think they would stack well together. Personally, Vigor is a staple supp. I wish I had a lifetime supply of it.

uhockey
03-12-2006, 05:36 PM
Self-bumpage for discussion :cool:

I don't buy that ORAC personally and as we all know, antioxidants all work at different levels of the redox reaction, each buffering each other through a variety of pathways.

I personally use 1 cap Vigor, 1 cap lean green, 1 cap GXR daily to keep a balance.

WRT Vigor and X-factor.......I consider it an essential. I'm very partial to a health-first approach to this sport and really don't like the idea of promoting the inflammatory state while also decreasing the number of antioxidant omega-3s in my body.

G.W. Hayduke
03-12-2006, 05:45 PM
I don't buy that ORAC personally and as we all know, antioxidants all work at different levels of the redox reaction, each buffering each other through a variety of pathways.

I personally use 1 cap Vigor, 1 cap lean green, 1 cap GXR daily to keep a balance.

WRT Vigor and X-factor.......I consider it an essential. I'm very partial to a health-first approach to this sport and really don't like the idea of promoting the inflammatory state while also decreasing the number of antioxidant omega-3s in my body.
Yep, antioxidants--especially fruit/veggie concentrates--go far beyond ORAC value. That's one reason why when I'm homebrewing I go for full-spectrum concentrates that are also standardized for a known active.

My current good health regimen is 1 Vigor, 1 GXR, and my homebrew bacopa/rhodiola/gynostemma blend (lower dose) on top of a multivite. I also drink green tea. I don't know what I'm gonna do when I run out of the Vigor and GXR I got at The Arnold. Trying to conserve. ;)

I take a health-first approach as well (most of the time at least) and still feel confident that XF, when used appropriately, can meat the requisites of a health-first objective.

uhockey
03-12-2006, 05:48 PM
I take a health-first approach as well (most of the time at least) and still feel confident that XF, when used appropriately, can meat the requisites of a health-first objective.

Considering the presence of AA in steak and other meats, was that an intentional pun, or did ya mean meet? ;)

G.W. Hayduke
03-12-2006, 05:52 PM
Considering the presence of AA in steak and other meats, was that an intentional pun, or did ya mean meet? ;)
You're damn right it was a pun! I'm just that unconciously clever!

Robboe
03-13-2006, 03:13 AM
Self-bumpage for discussion :cool:

Proanthocyanidin, Polyphenols, Anthocyanins, Ellagic acid and Quinic acid.

I've no idea if any or all are present in green tea, but they are present in VIGOR so it is a very well-rounded product.

G.W. Hayduke
03-13-2006, 03:22 AM
Proanthocyanidin, Polyphenols, Anthocyanins, Ellagic acid and Quinic acid.

I've no idea if any or all are present in green tea, but they are present in VIGOR so it is a very well-rounded product.
Polyphenols, yes. The others, I don't think so (maybe quinic acid). But tea does have tannic acid which has similar actions to ellagic acid.



Self-bumpage for discussion
As Uhockey said, it isn't all about ORAC. Coffee has a huge ORAC but see if you can replace strawberries and blueberries with it.

(I had to edit that more times than any sane person would've)

freakie
03-21-2006, 12:44 PM
So is Vigor "Vita Berry" or "Vita Berry Plus"?
I'm trying to ascertain what exactly is in it and since DS isn't ponying up the info I'd thought I'd go to the source.

uhockey
03-21-2006, 01:04 PM
So is Vigor "Vita Berry" or "Vita Berry Plus"?
I'm trying to ascertain what exactly is in it and since DS isn't ponying up the info I'd thought I'd go to the source.

Neither.

freakie
03-21-2006, 01:11 PM
Neither.
So DS isn't sourcing this product from Futureceuticals?
The marketing on Vigor sounds an awful lot like theirs.

uhockey
03-21-2006, 01:15 PM
So DS isn't sourcing this product from Futureceuticals?
The marketing on Vigor sounds an awful lot like theirs.

That is correct. The marketing (Writeup) was synthesized by us at DS and the product is not sourced from them.

Robboe
03-21-2006, 01:33 PM
So DS isn't sourcing this product from Futureceuticals?
The marketing on Vigor sounds an awful lot like theirs.

I believe the ORAC+ extraction method is their patent though.