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Beast
01-12-2006, 06:06 PM
With all of the recent threads on Xtend, we saw it fitting to write an Xtend FAQ. Please read all the articles linked at the beginning of the FAQ as well as the FAQ.

Feel free to ask questions and have a discussion here. I will add good questions to the FAQ document. Any rude or out-of-line comments will be deleted.

Scivation Xtend FAQ

What is Xtend?
Xtend is a precise, scientific blend of “Energy Aminos” consisting of the proven 2:1:1 ratio of Branched Chain Amino Acids (L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine and L-Valine), Glutamine, Citrulline Malate, and Vitamin B6.

For more information on BCAA, read:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast14.htm

For more information on Citrulline Malate, read:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jrod3.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jrod4.htm

For more information on Glutamine, read:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/inmag6.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/inmag8.htm

If I already eat a lot of protein, will additional free-form BCAA be beneficial to me?
The metabolic effects seen from ingesting free-form amino acids are different from ingesting the same amino acids when they are in a whole protein (peptide bond). The rapid flushing of the system with the particular amino acid exerts a much more powerful activation of its target pathways. For example, if you were to ingest 5 grams of free-form arginine pre-workout you would notice a greater pump then without it. If you were to ingest 5 grams of arginine in the form of a whole protein (1) you’d have to eat a ton of protein to acquire the 5 grams of arginine and (2) the rate of delivery would be much slower and (3) you would not be flooding your system with a large dose of arginine at one time. The same holds true for BCAA. Ingesting 10 grams of BCAA will lead to greater activation of mTOR, PI3K, etc.* than ingesting 10 grams of BCAA from a whole protein.

*refer to my BCAA for more info on these pathways: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm

What if I already take in a lot of whey protein which is high in BCAA?
Free-form amino acids are absorbed quicker than whey, and as stated above, whey will not flood your bloodstream with BCAA as quick as ingesting free-form BCAA. The BCAA from whey compared to free-form BCAA could be compared to filling up a glass of water from a garden hose (whey) to a faucet (free-form BCAA). If you use a garden hose you have to wait until the water travels the length of the hose before you can use it. With a faucet, the water is right there when you turn it on. On top of this, the faucet has a wider opening than the garden hose and releases more water than the garden hose. During your workout and times of stress (dieting), you want the BCAA to get to your muscles as quickly as possible.

I have heard one can get the same effects from taking Leucine alone as from taking all 3 BCAA, is this true?
Due to leucine's metabolic properties, many people focus solely on leucine and not the other two BCAAs, valine and isoleucine. Research has shown that leucine-rich diets or administration of leucine alone lead to decreases in valine and isoleucine plasma concentrations and a BCAA imbalance (Shirmomura et al., 2004). While it may be cheaper to supplement with leucine alone instead of all three BCAA, one should supplement with all three BCAA so not to create a BCAA imbalance.
Isoleucine and Valine also has some interesting properties of their own, separate from leucine. Isoleucine has been shown to increase glucose intake via PI3K activation, one of the same pathways leucine uses, but independently of the mTOR pathway (Doi et al., 2003). Valine has been shown to reduce fatty acid synthase in adipocytes by 40%, which will lead to less fat storage (Taylor & Halperin, 1975).

How much and when should I take Xtend?
How much Xtend you take per day will depend primarily on how much money you can spend and your goals. The following dosing protocols are based on the large tub of Xtend, which has 90 servings.
<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/Table%201.jpg>

3 Servings during Your Workouts Strategy
During exercise BCAA oxidation is increased. Supplementing with additional BCAA spares muscle tissue from being broken down to acquire BCAA. Therefore, drinking Xtend around and during your workout is the ideal way to use it. Start sipping your Xtend 15 minutes prior to the start of your workout (i.e. while driving to the gym). Continue sipping Xtend between sets during your workout and finish whatever Xtend you have not drunken immediately post workout. Follow this up with your usual post-workout shake or meal. If you only use Xtend during your workouts, 1 jug will last as follows:
<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/Table%202.jpg>
If you want to take additional Xtend on your rest days to accelerate recovery and growth, 1 jug will last:
<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/Table%203.jpg>

Sipping Xtend throughout the Day Strategy
Another popular method for using Xtend is to sip it throughout the day. Many users of this method have reporting gaining lean mass while losing fat simultaneously. This method would be ideal for those cutting on a low-carb, hypocaloric diet. Simply put the desired amount of Xtend in a container (i.e. gallon jug) and drink from it occasionally throughout the day. I would recommend using 4-6 scoops in a gallon jug as pictured here:
<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/Xtend.jpg>
If you use 3 servings (6 scoops) per day in this manner, 1 jug of Xtend will last 30 days. If you combine this method with the above method of taking 3 servings of Xtend during your workout, 1 jug will last:
<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/Table%204.jpg>

The Original Xtend Megadosing Experiment: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=431025&highlight=Megadose

What Supplements Can I Combine with Xtend for Enhanced Results?
The Mammalian Target of Rapamycin (mTOR) is one of the body's protein synthesis regulators. mTOR functions as an energy sensor; it is activated when ATP levels are high and blocked when ATP levels are decreased (AMPK is activated when ATP decreases, which works antagonistically to mTOR).
The main energy-consuming process in the cell is protein synthesis. When mTOR is activated (high ATP levels sensed) protein synthesis is increased and when mTOR is suppressed (low ATP levels are sensed) protein synthesis is blunted.
MTOR activation is vital for skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Interestingly, mTOR is also a nutrient sensor of amino acid availability, specifically of leucine availability. Research has shown that regulation of mTOR by ATP and amino acids act independently through separate mechanisms (Dennis et al., 2001).
It is my belief that combining supplements that increase/elevate ATP levels with BCAA will lead to an increased activation of mTOR, and therefore protein synthesis. Our goal is to keep ATP levels elevated while working out. To do so, we must supply the needed nutrients and substrates before and after the workout to keep ATP levels elevated and our bodies primed for growth.

Creatine
Creatine is used in the high-energy phosphate or ATP-PCr system to regenerate ATP. ATP, the body's main source of energy, is a molecule of adenosine (adenine + the sugar ribose) linked to three phosphate molecules by high-energy bonds. Breaking of the two outer bonds results in the release of energy.
When the most outer bond is broken, the energy is released and ADP and Pi are left behind. Creatine, which is bonded to a phosphate ion, transfers energy to the ADP and Pi molecule by breaking its own bond. This regenerates the ATP molecule, which means one now has more energy to use.
Skeletal muscle has a limited storage of creatine. Therefore supplementing with creatine increases your ability to form ATP and therefore increases the available energy for exercise (Casey et al. 1996 & 2000). More importantly to our topic on hand, by keeping ATP levels by supplementing with creatine we increase protein synthesis through mTOR activation. Creatine also has many other beneficial effects that are to numerous to address here.

Nitric Oxide (NO) product (Arginine, DiArginine-Malate, AAKG, etc)
The rate-limiting step of amino acid uptake into skeletal muscle is the transportation of the amino acids through the blood to the skeletal muscle, which is governed by blood flow (Wolfe, 2004). NO vasodilates blood vessels, thereby increasing blood flow. This increase when combined with exercises means greater blood flow and greater amino acid deliver and uptake in the working skeletal muscle. Exercise itself results in an increase in NO production, and the increased blood flow created by exercise is believed to be linked to the increase in protein synthesis post workout (Douglas et al., 2004). Xtend already has Citrulline-Malate in it, which will increase NO production, but an additional serving of arginine (i.e. 5 grams) preworkout should further enhance NO production, blood flow, and amino acid uptake.

Mister_A
01-12-2006, 06:21 PM
Nice.

jkeithc82
01-12-2006, 06:31 PM
Glad you're finished with it man! :D

Kledz
01-12-2006, 06:41 PM
I dont see anywhere in there how superior the grape is to the watermelon :D

Beast
01-12-2006, 06:50 PM
There I made it pretty :)

References:

Casey, A, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Howell S, Hultman E, Greenhaff PL. (1996) Creatine ingestion favorably affects performance and muscle metabolism during maximal exercise in humans. Am J Physiol. Jul;271:E31-7.

Casey A, Greenhaff PL. (2000).Does dietary creatine supplementation play a role in skeletal muscle metabolism and performance?Am J Clin Nutr. Aug;72(2 Suppl):607S-17S. Review.

Doi M, Yamaoka I, Fukunaga T, Nakayama M. Isoleucine, a potent plasma glucose-lowering amino acid, stimulates glucose uptake in C2C12 myotubes. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2003 Dec 26;312(4):1111-7.

Douglas, Borsheim, and Wolfe. "Potential Ergogenic Effects of Arginine and Creatine Supplementation" J Nutr. 2004 Oct;134(10 Suppl):2888S-2894S.

Shimomura, Y. Murakami, T.Nakai, N. Nagasaki, M. Harri, R.A. (2004). Exercise Promotes BCAA Catabolism: Effects of BCAA Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle during Exercise J. Nutri. 134: 1583S-1587S.

Taylor WM, Halperin ML. Effect of valine on the control of fatty acid synthesis in white adipose tissue of the rat. Can J Biochem. 1975 Oct;53(10):1054-60.

Wolfe, et. al., In vivo muscle amino acid transport involves two distinct processes. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Jul;287(1):E136-41.

p_ahn
01-12-2006, 06:59 PM
excellent work, Derek.

Scivation
01-12-2006, 07:22 PM
This will answer a lot of questions.

Coulaid
01-12-2006, 07:22 PM
Great read... Thanks. And Thanks for the excel file too!

deserusan
01-12-2006, 07:24 PM
It's about time goddamnit! ;)

Beast
01-12-2006, 07:25 PM
Hopefully the linked articles + this will help answer more questions.

PYF
01-12-2006, 07:25 PM
Awesome Job Derek, Lots of good info on BCAA.

IMO, there should be a FAQ forum with all the FAQ from the various compagnies (CL, Scivation, DS, AX.....).

Lots of useful of info in one thread...Overall, an awesome synthesis


Pierre-Yves

Madevilz
01-12-2006, 07:36 PM
Thanks for the FAQ Derek

cxm
01-13-2006, 08:28 AM
Derek great thread, maybe you can answer the question of taking Xtend before, during and after a cardio session. How many servings?

jer @h2o
01-13-2006, 08:51 AM
Good read. I just wish you had this done earlier, so I didn't use up and hour and a half last week answering the questions for myself. There's this new feature BB.com put in called the "SEARCH" button, and it works great for all you that haven't seen it yet.

I still think I'll wait untill I start to cut up a bit before I shell out the loot. Seems like a solid product. $45 bucks for a months supply isn't that bad.

Beast
01-13-2006, 08:54 AM
Derek great thread, maybe you can answer the question of taking Xtend before, during and after a cardio session. How many servings?

Good question! Different cardio scenarios:
(1) Cardio only
(2) Cadio AM, Weight training PM (or vise versa)
(3) Weight training followed by cardio
(4) HIIT

Depending on the duration and intensity, cardiovascular exercise can deplete muscle glycogen levels significantly. Supplementing with Xtend will assist in sparing muscle glycogen and muscle tissue and increase gluconeogensis. In addition to this, the citrulline-malate in Xtend will increase your performance due to its ATP boosting effects.

(1) Cardio only
If you are only doing cardio on a given day, I would treat this just as you would a weight training workout. Start sipping your Xtend 15 minutes prior to the start of your cardio (i.e. while driving to the gym). Continue sipping Xtend throughout your cardio session. Dosing will depend mainly on the duration. I would suggest taking 1 serving of Xtend per 10 minutes of cardio.
<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/cardio1.jpg>
Another option would be to decrease the amount of Xtend and add some whey protein for session greater than 40 minutes. For example, you could do 3 servings of Xtend and 1 serving of Substance WPI (with the matching flavor).

(2) Cardio AM, Weight Training PM
If you perform both cardio and weight training on the same day, I would recommend dosing 3 servings of Xtend pre/during/post weight training as outlined above and supplementing with an additional 2-3 servings of Xtend during your cardio session.

(3) Weight training followed by cardio
If you perform cardio after your weight training session, I would recommend increasing your Xtend servings from 3 to 4-6 servings. Add all of the servings to a jug or water bottle and sip throughout your weight training session as usual. Whatever Xtend you did not drink during your workout is to be drunk during your cardio session.

(4) HIIT
HIIT is an anaerobic form of cardio. While a HIIT session is usually shorter in duration then a cardiovascular session, it is much more intense. I would recommend using 1-3 servings of Xtend during the session. If you are doing sprints, I would suggest taking 1 scoop (1/2 servings) per 5 sprints.

<img src=https://ctools.umich.edu/access/content/user/derekwc/Xtend/cardio2.jpg>

Garage81
01-13-2006, 09:27 AM
WONDERFUL. A+

I'm picking up my first large container of Xtend as we speak.

Baptizer
01-13-2006, 09:34 AM
Excellent FAQ! Thanks for putting that together. After my GlycerGrow/Blue Up stack, I definitely going get another jug of watermelon. I had excellent results with this stuff.......my lean mass increased by around 5lb when I was on this stuff for a month.

TheGame85
01-13-2006, 09:35 AM
The Xtend jug says on the back regardless of weight to drink another serving(2 scoop/16oz water) immedieatly after workout. So does this mean I must drink on way to gym, during gym, and then down a whole other 16oz right after i leave then find room to swallow a PWO shake too???

jer @h2o
01-13-2006, 09:53 AM
The Xtend jug says on the back regardless of weight to drink another serving(2 scoop/16oz water) immedieatly after workout. So does this mean I must drink on way to gym, during gym, and then down a whole other 16oz right after i leave then find room to swallow a PWO shake too???
Bro, re-read the post at the top. Mix the Xtend, start sipping on the way to gym, continue during workout, then finish whats left. Follow it up with a PWO shake.

TheGame85
01-13-2006, 10:07 AM
I did read the thing and saw he said to do that, so what I was asking is, we ignore what the label says to do? According to his FAQ I mix my 2 scoops and drink it on way to gym and at gym then finish if anything left. According to the jug, I then also drink another serving right after workout.

jer @h2o
01-13-2006, 10:18 AM
I did read the thing and saw he said to do that, so what I was asking is, we ignore what the label says to do? According to his FAQ I mix my 2 scoops and drink it on way to gym and at gym then finish if anything left. According to the jug, I then also drink another serving right after workout.
Well, that my friend is your choice. Personaly, I think that you would get away with just the PWO shake after your done. You may have a few gulps left of the Xtend, finish and then the shake. I just think it would last longer and be of the same benefit.

You're only taking 2 scoops though, so it will last you pretty long anyway. I'd be taking 6 scoops, so the rational sounds better to me.

To each his own.

Zachattack43
01-13-2006, 10:39 AM
Here are 3 good questions i dont think anyone has asked.

Why does research (ppl in articles say research) reccommend a 2:1:1 ratio in the BCAAs?
How did they determine that?
There isnt anything wrong with adding some bulk leucine to the Xtend, right?

Beast
01-13-2006, 10:51 AM
Here are 3 good questions i dont think anyone has asked.

Why does research (ppl in articles say research) reccommend a 2:1:1 ratio in the BCAAs?
How did they determine that?
There isnt anything wrong with adding some bulk leucine to the Xtend, right?

Leucine depletes Isoleucine and Valine levels in a pretty equal rate. Therefore by supplementing with 1 gram of Isoleucine and 1 gram of Valine per 2 grams of Leucine one can prevent a BCAA imbalance from occuring. All 3 BCAA are rate-limiting factors in various reactions so I think it wise to supplement with all 3 if you are going to use large amounts. I am waiting to get the paper which discussing this from Layne.

Beast
01-13-2006, 11:07 AM
It's a journal article, not one Layne wrote.

Zachattack43
01-13-2006, 11:08 AM
great study, but it doesnt explain why the need for the ratio. I understand it doesnt help to be deficient in amino or vitamin and how if you are deficient in that amino or vitamin then that amino or vitamin wont be able to exert its full potential on the body and the possible synergy that comes with not being deficient.

Sick
01-13-2006, 11:18 AM
I have heard one can get the same effects from taking Leucine alone as from taking all 3 BCAA, is this true?
Due to leucine's metabolic properties, many people focus solely on leucine and not the other two BCAAs, valine and isoleucine. Research has shown that leucine-rich diets or administration of leucine alone lead to decreases in valine and isoleucine plasma concentrations and a BCAA imbalance (Shirmomura et al., 2004). While it may be cheaper to supplement with leucine alone instead of all three BCAA, one should supplement with all three BCAA so not to create a BCAA imbalance.
Isoleucine and Valine also has some interesting properties of their own, separate from leucine. Isoleucine has been shown to increase glucose intake via PI3K activation, one of the same pathways leucine uses, but independently of the mTOR pathway (Doi et al., 2003). Valine has been shown to reduce fatty acid synthase in adipocytes by 40%, which will lead to less fat storage (Taylor & Halperin, 1975).

SO....If taking only Leucine, one may end up with an valine and isoleucine imbalance, decreasing the effectiveness of the 2.. But, would leucine act as effective if one where to supplement it by itself without the other 2 bcaa's?

PNA
01-13-2006, 11:20 AM
Good work, Derek.

Zachattack43
01-13-2006, 11:21 AM
SO....If taking only Leucine, one may end up with an valine and isoleucine imbalance, decreasing the effectiveness of the 2.. But, would leucine act as effective if one where to supplement it by itself without the other 2 bcaa's?
i think if you are deficient in valine and isoleucine (imbalanced) then they may prevent leucine from being truly effective.

Beast
01-13-2006, 11:23 AM
SO....If taking only Leucine, one may end up with an valine and isoleucine imbalance, decreasing the effectiveness of the 2.. But, would leucine act as effective if one where to supplement it by itself without the other 2 bcaa's?

I've never seen or do I think there will ever be (in the near future at least) a study that will examine the effects of leucine vs. all 3 BCAA in muscle hypertrophy, strength, etc. in athletes.

The definition of imbalance = the state of being out of equilibrium . Considering the body also tries to maintain homeostasis, I personally would supplement with all 3 BCAA as to not create an imbalance.

Beast
01-13-2006, 11:24 AM
i think if you are deficient in valine and isoleucine (imbalanced) then they may prevent leucine from being truly effective.

I agree. Remember all of the essential amino acids are needed for protein synthesis. Depleting any is not wise.

Zachattack43
01-13-2006, 11:26 AM
I agree. Remember all of the essential amino acids are needed for protein synthesis. Depleting any is not wise.
yup thats why they are esstenial bc the body cannot make them, but they can make the non EAAs if needed

Sick
01-13-2006, 05:57 PM
The definition of imbalance = the state of being out of equilibrium . Considering the body also tries to maintain homeostasis, I personally would supplement with all 3 BCAA as to not create an imbalance.

Remember all of the essential amino acids are needed for protein synthesis. Depleting any is not wise.

Alright man, I see what you’re saying. But, if you are already are on high protein diet, would supplementing leucine some how lower the quantity of the other 2 bcaa to compensate for the large quantity of leucine.

For example, you ingested 20g whey protein from you meal. Its complete protein, so you have all the EAAs (all the leucine, valine, isoleucine and the rest of the EAA's) for protein synthesis. So if one were to mega dose on leucine during the day and as well take extra amount of it with 20g of protein you just ingested, you would creat an "imbalance" of BCAA. Logically, you would already have the sufficient amount of EAA's from the ingested 20g of whey protein needed for protein syntheses.

So that being said, I still see no need to supplement the extra 2 BCAA (valine and isoleucine).

Sick
01-13-2006, 06:01 PM
yup thats why they are esstenial bc the body cannot make them, but they can make the non EAAs if needed
Agreed. IMO, It would seem if we consume complete proteins(egg, whey, etc) Having 200g of a day of such complete protein will not become incomplete due to imbalance (or a ration difference) with the high amount of leucine. Consuming only high amount leucine, will make the already 200g of complete protein incomplete? No, but leucine by itself is incomplete protein.

Beast
01-14-2006, 10:09 AM
Anybody think of something that should be added?

jdiritto
01-14-2006, 10:19 AM
Anybody think of something that should be added?
a temporary buy one get one deal

=)

dp13368
01-14-2006, 10:38 AM
Anybody think of something that should be added?

Difference (advantages, dosing, etc) between regular and mega-dosing

BiggJohn
01-14-2006, 11:02 AM
I heard a new theory regarding the use of bcaa's pre-cardio, and wanted to post that here to see if anyone has any experience with it or any additional knowledge.

Many of us do cardio first thing in the AM, on an empty stomach. Should be an ideal time as glycogen is depleted from not eating for many hours. Some people believe that if you were to use bcaa's during this time they would be burned as fuel, but I recently heard the theory that bcaa's pre-cardio in this situation would actually work to preserve more muscle and signal the body more towards fat burning. Any comments?

Dosquito
01-14-2006, 11:11 AM
willl xtend make me huge?

Epstein
01-14-2006, 11:20 AM
great thread....I'm going to pick up a bunch at the arnold. I hear the prices will be good...

though marc never returned my email

:(

Beast
01-14-2006, 11:48 AM
I heard a new theory regarding the use of bcaa's pre-cardio, and wanted to post that here to see if anyone has any experience with it or any additional knowledge.

Many of us do cardio first thing in the AM, on an empty stomach. Should be an ideal time as glycogen is depleted from not eating for many hours. Some people believe that if you were to use bcaa's during this time they would be burned as fuel, but I recently heard the theory that bcaa's pre-cardio in this situation would actually work to preserve more muscle and signal the body more towards fat burning. Any comments?

Totally agree.

Scivation
01-14-2006, 12:09 PM
great thread....I'm going to pick up a bunch at the arnold. I hear the prices will be good...

though marc never returned my email

:(

Yes I did!

I will resend.

Zachattack43
01-14-2006, 12:36 PM
i'm jealous of yall who are going to the Arnold and getting all supps at dirt cheap prices

Beast
01-14-2006, 12:37 PM
i'm jealous of yall who are going to the Arnold and getting all supps at dirt cheap prices

Small Xtend for $5 :D

Kledz
01-14-2006, 12:45 PM
Small Xtend for $5 :D

:eek: It would be more cost efficient to drive there just for the expo than for me to order online!

Zachattack43
01-14-2006, 12:46 PM
Small Xtend for $5 :D
haha you trying drive me insane???

Madevilz
01-14-2006, 12:51 PM
Small Xtend for $5 :D

good deal for Ebayers :D

Dosquito
01-14-2006, 12:54 PM
answer my question please

Madevilz
01-14-2006, 12:58 PM
answer my question please

nothing will make you huge

Dosquito
01-14-2006, 01:03 PM
nothing will make you huge
Oh :(

cxm
01-15-2006, 01:04 AM
Derek or Marc what do you think of using beta-alanine with xtend? For example: 3+ grs a day in two divided doses, one pre and the other anytime.

Oz Enhanced
01-15-2006, 02:36 AM
good thread. should be made sticky for a while

im taking 4 scoops around workout time and then 2 scoops at night
and then 4 scoops on non workout days (2 in morning, 2 at night)

Beast
01-15-2006, 03:21 PM
Derek or Marc what do you think of using beta-alanine with xtend? For example: 3+ grs a day in two divided doses, one pre and the other anytime.

It would definitely have some beneficial effects. I think I'm going to start doing that :D

Phosphate bond
01-15-2006, 03:35 PM
I heard a new theory regarding the use of bcaa's pre-cardio, and wanted to post that here to see if anyone has any experience with it or any additional knowledge.

Many of us do cardio first thing in the AM, on an empty stomach. Should be an ideal time as glycogen is depleted from not eating for many hours. Some people believe that if you were to use bcaa's during this time they would be burned as fuel, but I recently heard the theory that bcaa's pre-cardio in this situation would actually work to preserve more muscle and signal the body more towards fat burning. Any comments?

I have a link you can read for yourself. Apparently activating PPAR-alpha via release of fatty acids during exercise induces branched chain amino acid breakdown in the liver.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15173434&query_hl=22

BiggJohn
01-15-2006, 05:00 PM
I have a link you can read for yourself. Apparently activating PPAR-alpha via release of fatty acids during exercise induces branched chain amino acid breakdown in the liver.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15173434&query_hl=22

I'm familiar with this information.

What I'm wondering is if bcaa's would be converted to glucose in this type of a situation, and just burned as fuel.

Phosphate bond
01-15-2006, 05:18 PM
I'm familiar with this information.

What I'm wondering is if bcaa's would be converted to glucose in this type of a situation, and just burned as fuel.


I know Valine is gluconeogenic.

Leucine forms ketones, but not glucose.


Isoleucine is a little of both.

I think the reason the body turns on this enzyme is to preserve certain pathways that are similar to glucose oxidation in a sense. BCAA alpha keto acid dehydrogenase is similar to glucose oxidation enzymes in the krebs cycle (the ones that use alpha lipoic acid). If I explain anymore it's going to get a little esoteric (but I believe this oxidation is a protective mechanism to prevent a build up of FADH2- which creates a sort of "choke" point in maximum energy production)

BiggJohn
01-15-2006, 11:01 PM
I know Valine is gluconeogenic.

Leucine forms ketones, but not glucose.


Isoleucine is a little of both.

I think the reason the body turns on this enzyme is to preserve certain pathways that are similar to glucose oxidation in a sense. BCAA alpha keto acid dehydrogenase is similar to glucose oxidation enzymes in the krebs cycle (the ones that use alpha lipoic acid). If I explain anymore it's going to get a little esoteric (but I believe this oxidation is a protective mechanism to prevent a build up of FADH2- which creates a sort of "choke" point in maximum energy production)

So would BCAA's really be of benefit pre-cardio on an empty stomach? Even though there would be a deficiency, it might not matter.

deserusan
01-15-2006, 11:23 PM
I heard a new theory regarding the use of bcaa's pre-cardio, and wanted to post that here to see if anyone has any experience with it or any additional knowledge.

Many of us do cardio first thing in the AM, on an empty stomach. Should be an ideal time as glycogen is depleted from not eating for many hours. Some people believe that if you were to use bcaa's during this time they would be burned as fuel, but I recently heard the theory that bcaa's pre-cardio in this situation would actually work to preserve more muscle and signal the body more towards fat burning. Any comments?

I agree as well. Here is some food for thought.

J Nutr. 2006 Jan;136(1):264S-8S.

Branched-chain amino acids as fuels and anabolic signals in human muscle

"During exercise, there is an increase in amino acid (AA) oxidation accompanied by a depression in whole-body protein synthesis and an increase in protein breakdown. Leucine oxidation increases in proportion to energy expenditure, but the total contribution of BCAA to fuel provision during exercise is minor and insufficient to increase dietary protein requirements."

This maybe a good read relating showing the for glutamine with BCAA's as well for all the glutamine haters. I feel this would apply to those megadosing BCAA's in particular.

Cas Lek Cesk. 2005;144 Suppl 3:9-12.

Glutamine and branched-chain amino acids--practical importance of their metabolic relations

"Branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs; valine, leucine, and isoleucine) represent important precursors in the synthesis of glutamine and alanine in the skeletal muscle. Enhanced oxidation of BCAAs can cover the elevated demands of the body on glutamine and alanine during severe illnesses (sepsis, polytrauma, burns). The sufficient supply of the BCAAs in such conditions is facilitated by increased proteolysis in skeletal muscle. However, it can result in muscle wasting and negative protein balance. While concentrations of the BCAAs and alanine are rarely significantly altered, a marked decrease in glutamine concentration, particularly in skeletal muscle, is frequently observed. Glutamine is therefore considered to be a conditional essential amino acid. The manuscript describes the metabolic relations between BCAAs and glutamine, and explains the importance of the recycling of BCAAs and their ketoanalogues between the liver and skeletal muscle. Finally, it is suggested that the favourable effect of glutamine administration on protein metabolism is related to changes in BCAA metabolism."

Ressurected
01-15-2006, 11:34 PM
hey beast, u were taking 7 servings on the workout days and 5 on non is that true?

deserusan
01-15-2006, 11:35 PM
So would BCAA's really be of benefit pre-cardio on an empty stomach? Even though there would be a deficiency, it might not matter.

I feel not only would they benefit pre cardio but would also prime you for your post caridio meal putting you in a more anabolic state than if not injested. Here is literature relating leucine to insulin sensitivity:

J Nutr. 2005 Jun;135(6 Suppl):1553S-6S.

The role of leucine in the regulation of protein metabolism.

"Studies both in vivo and in vitro have shown that leucine at a very high dose can stimulate muscle protein synthesis, an effect that is enhanced in vivo by insulin secreted in response to the leucine dose. High leucine can also inhibit protein degradation in skeletal muscle, as well as in liver. In contrast, at normal physiological levels, increasing leucine concentration by infusion stimulates muscle protein synthesis by enhancing its sensitivity to insulin. It is concluded that the role of leucine in vivo is to provide a signal that amino acids are available, which in combination with the signal of energy availability from insulin, stimulates muscle protein synthesis."

Ressurected
01-15-2006, 11:47 PM
what serving stratagy would be the best for bulking?
I was thinkin gof getting:
6 scoops on workout day
6 scoops on non workout days
Which will give me: A mounth. 4 weeks.+-.
Will 1 mounth be enough to see a bulking results?

Phosphate bond
01-16-2006, 12:11 AM
High leucine can also inhibit protein degradation in skeletal muscle, as well as in liver. In contrast, at normal physiological levels, increasing leucine concentration by infusion stimulates muscle protein synthesis by enhancing its sensitivity to insulin. It is concluded that the role of leucine in vivo is to provide a signal that amino acids are available, which in combination with the signal of energy availability from insulin, stimulates muscle protein synthesis."

I suspect one reason (of many reasons I'm sure) why Leucine has the greatest effect in this department may also lie in how it is metabolized. All the BCAAs keep FAD+ available (essentially open) to an extent because the second step in their oxidation (after deamination) through BCAA alpha keto acid dehydrogenase does this. But after this step occurs leucine does it the most (notice how gluconeogenesis involved with further metabolism of valine and 50% of isoleucine has to go through succinate dehydrogenase (ie, FAD+--> FADH2), but not Leucine.

I guess you could think of oxidation of fatty acids as the opposite (the first step is FAD+ to FADH2). Any build up of FADH2 will essentially block pyruvate dehydrogenase, alpha keto glutarate dehydrogenase, branched chain alpha keto acid dehydrogenase (the enzymes involving alpha lipoic acid) because free and available FAD+ is required for those enzymes to work.

This is one way I think Oxidzing free fatty acids causes insulin resistance (notice I said oxidize, not store as tryglceride in muscle) and it makes sense to me because typically in starvation you would not want to store glucose. (or activate the sodium/potassium pump to draw amino acids in)

Someone should look up how well FADH2 is able to pass off electrons to electron transport chain. Last time I checked it seemed like it would be far slower than NADH2's ability to do this (and getting back to what I said earlier may effect the rate of ATP regeneration- Heck it makes sense because apparently *just* oxidizing free fatty acids is less efficient if you are trying to lift heavy weights and recharge quickly in between sets. Endurance activity is different though)

I'm sure this hypothesis will be challenged (I'm taking off for a trip and will be back on my computer on wed/thurs so I'll answer then) and I welcome it because it's just a theory of mine. The questions asked usually get me thinking anyway.

Actually since we are discussing this you can also draw a parrallel to ALCAR because of basically what I think it does. Acetyl l-carnitine carries an acetyl group in the mitochondria and exchanges it for an acyl (fatty acid). I think by shifting metabolism back from excessive fatty oxidation it improves the maximum peak energy output of the cell.

Phosphate bond
01-16-2006, 12:17 AM
So would BCAA's really be of benefit pre-cardio on an empty stomach? Even though there would be a deficiency, it might not matter.

I think so.

BTW you guys should look into ALCAR also because I think that is an under-rated and affordable supplement for cardio. I love the stuff and probably because I have some fat to metabolize still. (It's decreasing though)

I liked the Primaforce brand when I used it. You might find benefits taking it post cardio session actually too.

deserusan
01-16-2006, 12:30 AM
Someone should look up how well FADH2 is able to pass off electrons to electron transport chain. Last time I checked it seemed like it would be far slower than NADH2's ability to do this (and getting back to what I said earlier may effect the rate of ATP regeneration-

You just lost me :)
<img src="http://www.reactome.org/figures/ox_decarb_and_TCA.jpg">

Phosphate bond
01-16-2006, 12:42 AM
There is a different diagram I'm thinking of showing how FADh2 passes off it's electrons. I'll see if I could find an online version of it when I get back.

deserusan
01-16-2006, 12:45 AM
Someone should look up how well FADH2 is able to pass off electrons to electron transport chain. Last time I checked it seemed like it would be far slower than NADH2's ability to do this

one molecule NADH2 --> electron transport train= 3 molecules ATP
one molecule FADH2 --> electron transport train= 2 molecules ATP

Phosphate bond
01-16-2006, 12:51 AM
one molecule NADH2 --> electron transport train= 3 molecules ATP
one molecule FADH2 --> electron transport train= 2 molecules ATP

Yeah that and I think it maybe slower too . The rate of getting those 2 ATPs may ironically be slower than getting 3 ATPs, but I could be wrong on this.

Interesting discussion.

Beast
01-16-2006, 08:26 AM
I think so.

BTW you guys should look into ALCAR also because I think that is an under-rated and affordable supplement for cardio. I love the stuff and probably because I have some fat to metabolize still. (It's decreasing though)

I liked the Primaforce brand when I used it. You might find benefits taking it post cardio session actually too.

Did you ever try Durablast?

BiggJohn
01-16-2006, 09:30 AM
I think so.

BTW you guys should look into ALCAR also because I think that is an under-rated and affordable supplement for cardio. I love the stuff and probably because I have some fat to metabolize still. (It's decreasing though)

I liked the Primaforce brand when I used it. You might find benefits taking it post cardio session actually too.

Thanks for the info. There is somewhat of a debate on this topic between respected members of our community. Bobo, who runs AM.com, has stated that BCAA's would have no benefit in such a situation as they would be burned as fuel during exercise. In other articles I've seen, people believe BCAA's pre-cardio would be of great benefit as amino acids in the blood stream would signal the body towards greater fat burning activity and a more muscle sparing state.

I liked Alcar with the anarchy stack (minus CLA), seemed to be great for leaning out.

Phosphate bond
01-18-2006, 07:54 PM
Bobo, who runs AM.com, has stated that BCAA's would have no benefit in such a situation as they would be burned as fuel during exercise. In other articles I've seen, people believe BCAA's pre-cardio would be of great benefit as amino acids in the blood stream would signal the body towards greater fat burning activity and a more muscle sparing state.

I liked Alcar with the anarchy stack (minus CLA), seemed to be great for leaning out.

I think you want the BCAAs to be burned (some people even think the breakdown products KIC and HMB even do something, but I don't want to get into that because I don't think that's the whole story). The supplementation is just to replace the losses.

I don't really think that BCAAs signal the body to burn more fat. Actually I think the fatty acids do, but by oxidizing BCAAs along with them at the same time there is a permissive effect towards further fatty acid oxidation. (just my guess)

Steve_W
01-18-2006, 08:54 PM
PB - How much ALCAR did you use for best effect?

Phosphate bond
01-18-2006, 09:14 PM
PB - How much ALCAR did you use for best effect?

Actually I noticed the biggest improvement after using my stairmaster. I would just take a gram at a time and it seemed to help my concentration and energy. Sometimes taking more helped.

I think it has something to do with controlling excessive fatty acid oxidation or build up of fatty acid COAs inside the cell.

P.S. I was suprised this stuff did anything. My prior usage of it in my middle twenties showed no benefit. Now that I think about it I was probably using it at the wrong times.

cxm
01-18-2006, 09:16 PM
Actually I noticed the biggest improvement after using my stairmaster. I would just take a gram at a time and it seemed to help my concentration and energy. Sometimes taking more helped.

I think it has something to do with controlling excessive fatty acid oxidation or build up of fatty acid COAs inside the cell.

Have you only taken ALCAR from primaforce, or have tried it in bulk from BN?

andyo
01-19-2006, 07:56 AM
Is it better to use Xtend with Cardio or Weight training..

I do cardio first thing on empty...then Train again at noon....

What do you guys think?

Beast
01-19-2006, 08:48 AM
Is it better to use Xtend with Cardio or Weight training..

I do cardio first thing on empty...then Train again at noon....

What do you guys think?

I would use Xtend during both. If you can only afford to use say 4 scoops of Xtend a day, I would do 2 scoops Xtend + 0.5 scoops Substance during both sessions.

KennyK
01-19-2006, 08:59 AM
Are there any side effects to megadosing BCAA's. I've started sipping xtend throughout the day.

Should I do this for only a limited period of time or is it safe to do this for an extended period of time such as a few months


thanks

TE
01-19-2006, 01:08 PM
I know I've said this before, but I'm gonna say it again. I LOVE Watermelon Xtend mixed with Diet Mountain Dew over ice. That is all. :)

Beast
01-19-2006, 01:47 PM
Are there any side effects to megadosing BCAA's. I've started sipping xtend throughout the day.

Should I do this for only a limited period of time or is it safe to do this for an extended period of time such as a few months


thanks

Really are no side effects, BCAA, Glutamine, and CM are safe :)

kliplemet
01-20-2006, 04:36 AM
if i put 3 serving of xtend in 16 floz instead of 48floz, will it decrease the effectiveness? i don't like bringing large bottels to my gym

Scivation
01-20-2006, 06:24 AM
if i put 3 serving of xtend in 16 floz instead of 48floz, will it decrease the effectiveness? i don't like bringing large bottels to my gym

That should be fine. As long as you are getting the Xtend in, water is more of a taste recommendation.

kliplemet
01-20-2006, 06:27 AM
That should be fine. As long as you are getting the Xtend in, water is more of a taste recommendation.
cool :)

Garage81
01-20-2006, 06:40 AM
my large jug of watermelon comes in today.

i plan on mixing 2 servings (4 scoops) with 32oz of water, and just drinking it throughout the day, everyday.

hope it tastes as good as everyone says :)

KennyK
01-20-2006, 11:14 AM
Really are no side effects, BCAA, Glutamine, and CM are safe :)

Thanks for the answer, Derek.

One more thing, I was looking into trying SAN Vault.

Do you think it would be safe or adviseable to mix the two as a preworkout drink?

Lobrim
01-24-2006, 06:32 PM
I would use Xtend during both. If you can only afford to use say 4 scoops of Xtend a day, I would do 2 scoops Xtend + 0.5 scoops Substance during both sessions.

Just wondering are you suggesting mixing the protein with the xtend? Would the protein slow down the absorption of the xtend?Better off just drinking the xtend first and then the protein or does it make a difference?

surfgod777
01-27-2006, 04:30 PM
That should be fine. As long as you are getting the Xtend in, water is more of a taste recommendation.
Just curious to see what was popular when it comes to how many ounces of water to use with 3 servings during my workout. I went out and bought a 48 oz nalgeine bottle, but not sure if I needed to. I am seeing guys mixing 3 servings xtend and 1 scoop substance wpi in like 24 oz of water! Is this normal? and how does it taste/mix?

I am planning on adding substance to my workout drink with xtend, but was curious what was the best tasting without having to lug around a huge bottle during my workout.

Thanks.

Viperspit
01-27-2006, 04:38 PM
Good work Beast. So my original assumptions were correct: $50/month

Zachattack43
01-27-2006, 04:39 PM
I forgot if this was answered before, but once you put the Xtend in your water, how long do we have til it starts to go?

Scivation
01-27-2006, 05:32 PM
Just wondering are you suggesting mixing the protein with the xtend? Would the protein slow down the absorption of the xtend?Better off just drinking the xtend first and then the protein or does it make a difference?

Yes we are. The whey will not slow down the Xtend and the BCAA will still exert their wonderful benefits. We always recommend Substance WPI and Xtend pre, during and port workout not only because of the efficacy and quality, but because the flavor systems match and it is super-yummy.

Scivation
01-27-2006, 05:34 PM
Just curious to see what was popular when it comes to how many ounces of water to use with 3 servings during my workout. I went out and bought a 48 oz nalgeine bottle, but not sure if I needed to. I am seeing guys mixing 3 servings xtend and 1 scoop substance wpi in like 24 oz of water! Is this normal? and how does it taste/mix?

I am planning on adding substance to my workout drink with xtend, but was curious what was the best tasting without having to lug around a huge bottle during my workout.

Thanks.

I usually mix 1.5 scoops watermelon Substance and 10 scoops watermelon Xtend in 1 liter of water. It is heavenly.

Scivation
01-27-2006, 05:35 PM
I forgot if this was answered before, but once you put the Xtend in your water, how long do we have til it starts to go?

A very long time, at least a day.

jmil
01-27-2006, 05:43 PM
I usually mix 1.5 scoops watermelon Substance and 10 scoops watermelon Xtend in 1 liter of water. It is heavenly.


Ahhh lucky!! I wish I had Xtend at my disposal whenever I wanted it :). I just started megadosing today...Im putting 12 scoops in my gallon of water, now I'm getting my xtend and meeting my daily water requirements! I'm going to be using this method with my PP/SD cycle that I'm starting tomorrow, and will continue throughout PCT as well as a week after...prolly about 12-13 weeks total. You better believe I'll be stocking up like craaaaaaaazy at the Arnold!! :)

Scivation
01-27-2006, 05:46 PM
Ahhh lucky!! I wish I had Xtend at my disposal whenever I wanted it :). I just started megadosing today...Im putting 12 scoops in my gallon of water, now I'm getting my xtend and meeting my daily water requirements! I'm going to be using this method with my PP/SD cycle that I'm starting tomorrow, and will continue throughout PCT as well as a week after...prolly about 12-13 weeks total. You better believe I'll be stocking up like craaaaaaaazy at the Arnold!! :)

Something tells me we're gonna run out of Xtend pretty fast.

Born Again
01-27-2006, 05:48 PM
imagine how great it would be if they were selling Xtend in MC Donalds instead of Coke/Fanta/sprite....
I mean , they would make so much money!

Scivation
01-27-2006, 05:57 PM
imagine how great it would be if they were selling Xtend in MC Donalds instead of Coke/Fanta/sprite....
I mean , they would make so much money!

The thing is, the average American would probably think it tastes lbad....compared to Root Beer and Coca Cola.

gi2104
01-27-2006, 06:18 PM
Yestarday I ordered Xtend but I must confess I was looking for a product with all the essentalial aminoacid.
I did not find any product that had a reasonable ammount of all the EAA.
Almost all the product are in Capsules and not in powder.

The only one that actually seem to have a reasonable ammount of EAA is Amino Shooter but it also contains 5gr of Creatine Monohydrate for each serving (19gr). So it can NOT be mega-dosed.

It would be great if scivation could introduce an Xtend "Complete", containing a good balance of all the EAA

Scivation
01-27-2006, 06:22 PM
Yestarday I ordered Xtend but I must confess I was looking for a product with all the essentalial aminoacid.
I did not find any product that had a reasonable ammount of all the EAA.
Almost all the product are in Capsules and not in powder.

The only one that actually seem to have a reasonable ammount of EAA is Amino Shooter but it also contains 5gr of Creatine Monohydrate for each serving (19gr). So it can NOT be mega-dosed.

It would be great if scivation could introduce an Xtend "Complete", containing a good balance of all the EAA

Just mix it with WPI. Then you'll be golden.

gi2104
01-27-2006, 06:28 PM
Just mix it with WPI. Then you'll be golden.

Thank you, I'll do that

However, I thought that the following was true for all the aminos and not only the BCAA. In that case a Xtend "Complete" would be a hell of a product!


If I already eat a lot of protein, will additional free-form BCAA be beneficial to me?
The metabolic effects seen from ingesting free-form amino acids are different from ingesting the same amino acids when they are in a whole protein (peptide bond). The rapid flushing of the system with the particular amino acid exerts a much more powerful activation of its target pathways. For example, if you were to ingest 5 grams of free-form arginine pre-workout you would notice a greater pump then without it. If you were to ingest 5 grams of arginine in the form of a whole protein (1) you’d have to eat a ton of protein to acquire the 5 grams of arginine and (2) the rate of delivery would be much slower and (3) you would not be flooding your system with a large dose of arginine at one time. The same holds true for BCAA. Ingesting 10 grams of BCAA will lead to greater activation of mTOR, PI3K, etc.* than ingesting 10 grams of BCAA from a whole protein.

deserusan
01-27-2006, 07:07 PM
Something tells me we're gonna run out of Xtend pretty fast.

I was planning on dropping a few hundred on just Xtend at the Arnold.

Scivation
01-27-2006, 07:07 PM
Thank you, I'll do that

However, I thought that the following was true for all the aminos and not only the BCAA. In that case a Xtend "Complete" would be a hell of a product!

Xtend + Substance WPI = The perfect workout drink.

Kledz
01-27-2006, 07:11 PM
Xtend + Substance WPI = The perfect workout drink.

This may only hold true for the grape, but I think Xtend and Substance combined tastes better than either one alone.

Phosphate bond
01-27-2006, 07:13 PM
I think Xtend and Substance combined tastes better than either one alone.

I've said that before too.

surfgod777
01-27-2006, 08:32 PM
I usually mix 1.5 scoops watermelon Substance and 10 scoops watermelon Xtend in 1 liter of water. It is heavenly.
Thanks for the info. I already have 2 tubs of Xtend (both melon and grape)... so I ordered my substance yesterday. Can't wait to try it out!!! How is the texture with 1.5 scoops Substance and 10 scoops Xtend in 1 Liter of water? Do you drink it all during workout, or before and after also.

Scivation
01-27-2006, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the info. I already have 2 tubs of Xtend (both melon and grape)... so I ordered my substance yesterday. Can't wait to try it out!!! How is the texture with 1.5 scoops Substance and 10 scoops Xtend in 1 Liter of water? Do you drink it all during workout, or before and after also.

I drink 1/3 pre, 1/3 during, and 1/3 post workout.

N10CT
01-31-2006, 05:45 PM
Firstly a quick question. If I'm an athlete wanting to use Xtend for its CM, how long before an event should I use it???

Secondly, one use for Xtend that I feel is under promoted is as an in-sport drink. After readin a tonne of scientific literature last year for papers, articles etc. I noticed adding 1 serving of Xtend to 600ml (around 20 oz) a commerically available sports drink, such as Gatorade, is pretty close to the perfect drink to consume (ie sip) during endurance events, such as road cycling etc. This would be one time more is not better as it is all about the concnetratons of the ingredients. I realise this won't sell as much product as promoting mega-dosing, but it would be beneficial for many.

cxm
02-03-2006, 10:23 PM
Is there any supplements that can intefere with Xtend for absorbtion?

Atothev
02-04-2006, 12:01 AM
What do you guys think about taking xtend and noxidant together?

dp13368
02-04-2006, 12:27 AM
Firstly a quick question. If I'm an athlete wanting to use Xtend for its CM, how long before an event should I use it???

Secondly, one use for Xtend that I feel is under promoted is as an in-sport drink. After readin a tonne of scientific literature last year for papers, articles etc. I noticed adding 1 serving of Xtend to 600ml (around 20 oz) a commerically available sports drink, such as Gatorade, is pretty close to the perfect drink to consume (ie sip) during endurance events, such as road cycling etc. This would be one time more is not better as it is all about the concnetratons of the ingredients. I realise this won't sell as much product as promoting mega-dosing, but it would be beneficial for many.

I would also add bulk Citrulline Malate, it works amazing for me. Most people see fairly dramatic effects from 3-6 grams twice per day so with 1g of CM in xtend, just do the math on how much bulk CM you need.

dp13368
02-04-2006, 12:28 AM
Anybody think of something that should be added?



Difference (advantages, dosing, etc) between regular and mega-dosing

... Thanks :D

Beast
02-04-2006, 10:00 AM
... Thanks :D

More Xtend = more protein synthesis and increased recovery :)

Prime01
02-06-2006, 06:21 AM
Hey Beast,

I started taking my XTend last week. Not bad in flavor, workouts seem to be getting better. My workouts begin at 5:30 pm. Now, I'm 174LBS, and I take my two dosage drink about 15 minutes before and into my workouts with weights. During the workout I fill the bottle up about 1-2 more times with water. But I do not take the 1 dose after because usually when I am done lifting I sit down immediately to eat. Instead, I was taking this dose first thing in the morning on an empty stomache.

My fear was if I take 16oz. of water right before I eat, I won't be able to get enough food into my system. I also don't want to eat too late in the evening because I do take a protien shake just before I go to bed. So my question is, will it make any difference whatsoever by not hitting that dose of XTend right after my workout, and instead taking it first thing in the morning?? I figured it may not considering the different methods of getting the aminos in (such as the gallon a day technique), I thought this would simply be another way that someone could get their proper dosage of XTend. Let me know. :)

kliplemet
02-06-2006, 06:46 AM
Is there any supplements that can intefere with Xtend for absorbtion?
i'd like to know this too :)
(i take "animal pak" before my workout)

Beast
02-06-2006, 08:38 AM
First thing in the morning is a great time to take Xtend. You could do a serving in the morning then 2 servings pre/during your workout and follow your workout with your solid food meal.



Hey Beast,

I started taking my XTend last week. Not bad in flavor, workouts seem to be getting better. My workouts begin at 5:30 pm. Now, I'm 174LBS, and I take my two dosage drink about 15 minutes before and into my workouts with weights. During the workout I fill the bottle up about 1-2 more times with water. But I do not take the 1 dose after because usually when I am done lifting I sit down immediately to eat. Instead, I was taking this dose first thing in the morning on an empty stomache.

My fear was if I take 16oz. of water right before I eat, I won't be able to get enough food into my system. I also don't want to eat too late in the evening because I do take a protien shake just before I go to bed. So my question is, will it make any difference whatsoever by not hitting that dose of XTend right after my workout, and instead taking it first thing in the morning?? I figured it may not considering the different methods of getting the aminos in (such as the gallon a day technique), I thought this would simply be another way that someone could get their proper dosage of XTend. Let me know. :)

Beast
02-06-2006, 08:38 AM
i'd like to know this too :)
(i take "animal pak" before my workout)

Most other supplements will not. Something like a large amount of fiber may. But stuff like creatine, arginine, vitamins, minerals, etc. will not.

Prime01
02-06-2006, 10:15 AM
First thing in the morning is a great time to take Xtend. You could do a serving in the morning then 2 servings pre/during your workout and follow your workout with your solid food meal.

Thanks man. That question has been plaguing me all week. :D

cxm
02-06-2006, 10:17 AM
Most other supplements will not. Something like a large amount of fiber may. But stuff like creatine, arginine, vitamins, minerals, etc. will not.

Thanks Derek :)

Dallas68
02-06-2006, 10:22 AM
thx for the reading and so on Derek You Beast of a person...

can't wait for my 1035 gram tub of mouth watering succulent and fruity juice watermelon gets here!!

:cool:

just had to make those who ain't getting a tub a little jealous ;)


:rolleyes: no but great read...

Atothev
02-07-2006, 12:07 AM
I just recieved a bottle of Xtend today and used a 1 serving pre and during my workout....it gave me good energy and it looked like my veins were popping out a bit...so far its doing what i thought it would do..

Hunter8907
02-07-2006, 04:27 PM
so when ur supplementing with xtend could u use a separate L-Glutamine supplement even tho it has it in there? would their be a aminoacid imbalance?i heard u can consume up to 40g. a day of glutamine

Beast
02-07-2006, 05:36 PM
so when ur supplementing with xtend could u use a separate L-Glutamine supplement even tho it has it in there? would their be a aminoacid imbalance?i heard u can consume up to 40g. a day of glutamine

Supplementing with additional glutamine is fine.

Viperspit
02-07-2006, 05:41 PM
great thread Beast, I find myself coming back to this one all the time as it's answered a lot of my questions. I'm watching for sales on Xtend :)

Beast
02-07-2006, 05:48 PM
great thread Beast, I find myself coming back to this one all the time as it's answered a lot of my questions. I'm watching for sales on Xtend :)

If you can make it to the Arnold, $5 for the small jugs of Xtend!

Prime01
02-08-2006, 07:32 AM
If you can make it to the Arnold, $5 for the small jugs of Xtend!

WHY OH WHY must it be so far away from Florida?? LOL

Dallas68
02-10-2006, 10:44 AM
just want to say i got my watermelon Xtend yesterday :cool:

smaller tub (1035g) expected a monster type tub than i expected but its awesome just like fruit juice and kept me feeling good all through my workout as well as reducing my legs soreness!!



:D thx to scivation for making this product..any left over stock ship to me guys!!! :p

fish153
02-12-2006, 06:44 PM
I just received my watermelon Xtend the other day and can't wait to try it tomorrow. I'm going to mix some into a water bottle and sip on it during the day (as it'll be one of my off days).

Thanks for posting this thread - it's a great one to read and re-read. ;)

Hunter8907
02-12-2006, 07:15 PM
can u use SAN Tight with Xtend no cancellation right?

Scivation
02-13-2006, 08:11 PM
can u use SAN Tight with Xtend no cancellation right?

Nope. Very few supplements effect one another. Even creatine and caffeine are fine together.

propstm
02-18-2006, 01:38 AM
Beast, amazing post! That had all of the info i had been looking for in it!

Adamb83
02-18-2006, 05:28 AM
Megadose vs regular dose.

Anyone have a good arguement for or against megadosing? I'm not sure how I want to use my Xtend when I receive it. I've heard good things from megadosing, but then again I've heard good things from regular dosing.

naturalguy
02-18-2006, 05:57 AM
Megadose vs regular dose.

Anyone have a good arguement for or against megadosing? I'm not sure how I want to use my Xtend when I receive it. I've heard good things from megadosing, but then again I've heard good things from regular dosing.

I've tried both methods and honestly I got the same results out of using 10 grms. (5 before workout, 5 after) as I got from using 30 grms. throught the day. I don't need to megadose.

Adamb83
02-18-2006, 05:05 PM
I've tried both methods and honestly I got the same results out of using 10 grms. (5 before workout, 5 after) as I got from using 30 grms. throught the day. I don't need to megadose.


Thank you sir, that was exactly the response i was looking for. I'm gonna give normal dose a try first and then perhaps move on to higher doses if the results aren't sufficient.

cxm
02-23-2006, 10:32 AM
Can you prepare Xtend in advance for only a specific time? For example overnight.

jkeithc82
02-23-2006, 10:35 AM
Can you prepare Xtend in advance for only a specific time? For example overnight.

Yeah it should be fine. I wouldn't leave it mixed for days on end, but overnight would be fine.

Zachattack43
02-23-2006, 10:36 AM
Yeah it should be fine. I wouldn't leave it mixed for days on end, but overnight would be fine.
one time i had a Xtend mixed with water in my gallon jug and i left town leaving it there at my apt, came back 3 days later and it had clouded up inside.

cxm
02-23-2006, 10:37 AM
Yeah it should be fine. I wouldn't leave it mixed for days on end, but overnight would be fine.

Thanks, josh.
BTW I was wrong about my favorite flavor being grape, I have switched to the watermelon team. :o

jkeithc82
02-23-2006, 10:39 AM
Thanks, josh.
BTW I was wrong about my favorite flavor being grape, I have switched to the watermelon team. :o

Uh oh, Robboe's forces are weakening :D

cxm
02-23-2006, 10:43 AM
Uh oh, Robboe's forces are weakening :D

Watermelon is too damm good, I am hooked. :D

jdiritto
02-23-2006, 10:57 AM
watermelon <3 xtend <3 if i won the lottery I would buy millions

Zachattack43
02-23-2006, 11:02 AM
hell if i won the lotto i invest somewhere in this industry, probaly Marc's or Joey's companies or that other online store...

Watch Me!
02-23-2006, 11:51 AM
Can you prepare Xtend in advance for only a specific time? For example overnight.

Yeah I prepare 2 water bottles of it at night for my workout the following evening and they've been fine. Xtend needs to come with a funnel for mixing it in bottles! (I made a makeshift paper one)

cxm
02-23-2006, 11:52 AM
Yeah I prepare 2 water bottles of it at night for my workout the following evening and they've been fine. Xtend needs to come with a funnel for mixing it in bottles! (I made a makeshift paper one)

I actually bought a funnel from wal-mart just for this issue too.

Dallas68
02-23-2006, 12:01 PM
Watermelon is too damm good, I am hooked. :D


agreed the taste is out of the world damn i just want more and more :D

had six scoops today :eek: hehe its awesome ive been cutting havent had as much whey protein as i usually do and the scivation Xtend and other amino products have kept all my muscle for me wooh :)

fish153
02-23-2006, 03:59 PM
I agree on the funnel issue ... it makes me cry when after fixing my water/xtend for the day I see little watermelon-flavored crystals all over the sink ... :(

Kledz
02-23-2006, 04:18 PM
Thanks, josh.
BTW I was wrong about my favorite flavor being grape, I have switched to the watermelon team. :o

sellout :(

cxm
02-23-2006, 04:20 PM
sellout :(

LOL! :D More like traitor. :)

grapemaster
03-06-2006, 01:04 PM
anybody know if sucralose adds up like a sugar??? I was thinking maybe it would be somewhat like a sugar just not spike your insulin level, like a sugar alcohol?

zcsmith
03-08-2006, 07:35 AM
Though I've asked this question on other threads (and have gotten answers), I think it's important if Derek (or someone else that's knowledgeable) addresses the question of the number of calories that are in a serving of Xtend.

I figured that the answer would fit perfectly in this thread :)

Carb
03-08-2006, 08:17 AM
Going by FDA guidelines, there are no calories in Xtend (or any BCAA product).

In reality though there are roughly 4 kcals per gram of BCAAs.

Scivation
03-08-2006, 08:20 AM
Going by FDA guidelines, there are no calories in Xtend (or any BCAA product).



True dat.

mach189
03-11-2006, 12:08 PM
This may be a dumb question but I remember reading on the label for Universal's BCAA stack that BCAA's can aid with fat loss. I also remember reading somewhere that bcaa's can specifically target abdominal fat. Is this in any way true? Just curious.



FYI, the Universal Stack pales in comparison to Xtend.

Beast
03-11-2006, 12:14 PM
This may be a dumb question but I remember reading on the label for Universal's BCAA stack that BCAA's can aid with fat loss. I also remember reading somewhere that bcaa's can specifically target abdominal fat. Is this in any way true? Just curious.



FYI, the Universal Stack pales in comparison to Xtend.

There was a study done on wrestlers that shows BCAA supplementation to decrease visceral fat.

Int J Sports Med. 1997 Jan;18(1):47-55. Related Articles, Links


Combined effects of caloric restriction and branched-chain amino acid supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in elite wrestlers.

Mourier A, Bigard AX, de Kerviler E, Roger B, Legrand H, Guezennec CY.

Centre d'Etudes et de Recherches de Medecine Aerospatiale, Departement de Physiologie Systemique, Bretigny-sur-orge, France.

Twenty-five competitive wrestlers restricted their caloric intake (28 kcal.kg-1.day-1) for 19 days, using a hypocaloric control (hC, n = 6), hypocaloric high-protein (hHP, n = 7), hypocaloric high-branched-chain amino acid (hBCAA, n = 6), hypocaloric low-protein (hLP, n = 6) diet to determine the effects of caloric restriction on body composition and performances versus control diet (C, n = 6). Anthropometric parameters (weight, percent body fat) and adipose tissue (AT) distribution measured by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) obtained before and after diet, were compared. A significant highest body weight loss (-4 kg, p < 0.05) and decrease in the percent of body fat (-17.3%, p < 0.05) were observed for subjects of the hBCAA group. Subjects of the hBCAA group exhibited a significant reduction (-34.4%, p < 0.05) in abdominal visceral adipose tissue (VAT). There was no change in aerobic (VO2max) (p > 0.75) and anaerobic capacities (Wingate test) (p > 0.81), and in muscular strength (p > 0.82). We conclude that under our experimental conditions, the combination of moderate energy restriction and BCAA supplementation induced significant and preferential losses of VAT, and allowed maintainance of a high level of performance.

PMID: 9059905 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9059905&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

mach189
03-11-2006, 02:58 PM
Great. Thank you.

Coulaid
03-17-2006, 06:16 PM
Would there be any problems freezing Xtend? This is what i was thinking:

1 Packet Un-Flavored Gelatine

6 Scoops Xtend

3 Cups h2o

Cook gelatine and let cool. Mix in Xtend. Place in popsicle holders. Freeze And enjoy!

Would there be any problems with this?

young_squatter
03-17-2006, 06:31 PM
Would there be any problems freezing Xtend? This is what i was thinking:

1 Packet Un-Flavored Gelatine

6 Scoops Xtend

3 Cups h2o

Cook gelatine and let cool. Mix in Xtend. Place in popsicle holders. Freeze And enjoy!

Would there be any problems with this?

I dont see why this would be a problem. Go for it.

Amazin Caucasian
03-17-2006, 07:02 PM
When will the new more easily dissolved XTend be available?

fish153
03-17-2006, 07:04 PM
???? My Xtend dissolves very easily ...

Amazin Caucasian
03-17-2006, 07:07 PM
in one of the other XTend threads I think it was Beast said they will be comin out with one that dissolves easier and Scivation replied to look for it very soon, the small clumping is wat it is improving...I am planning to start XTend in the summer when lax season ends and am curious whether or not this new rendition will be available.

mach189
03-18-2006, 12:44 PM
I just bought some Xtend and I noticed the powder seemed more "fine" than the previous bottles I had ordered. For some reason it doesn't taste as good as it did either. I'm curious to know if there were any changes in the flavoring in the new batch because it doesn't taste the same.

Scivation
03-18-2006, 05:11 PM
I just bought some Xtend and I noticed the powder seemed more "fine" than the previous bottles I had ordered. For some reason it doesn't taste as good as it did either. I'm curious to know if there were any changes in the flavoring in the new batch because it doesn't taste the same.

New batch = same as old batch.

Amazin Caucasian
03-18-2006, 05:27 PM
? does this mean that the tub mach bought was the old batch or does this maen that the new batch coming out will not be more easily dissolved? or does this mean the new batch will be more easily dissolved but has the same taste? clarification is in need here

Scivation
03-18-2006, 05:29 PM
? does this mean that the tub mach bought was the old batch or does this maen that the new batch coming out will not be more easily dissolved? or does this mean the new batch will be more easily dissolved but has the same taste? clarification is in need here

The batch being made right now as we speak will taste exactly the same as it has always tasted, but will mix better.

deserusan
03-18-2006, 05:30 PM
The batch being made right now as we speak will taste exactly the same as it has always tasted, but will mix better.

Did you add an ethyl ester? ;)

Amazin Caucasian
03-18-2006, 05:35 PM
ah, I gotcha! thanks a lot, ha sry i didn't mean to sound rude I just wasn't sure to which post you were referring to. Thats awesome.

will they be changing the name to BCAAEE or XTEEND due to the newly added ethyl ester? ;)

Scivation
03-18-2006, 05:49 PM
ah, I gotcha! thanks a lot, ha sry i didn't mean to sound rude I just wasn't sure to which post you were referring to. Thats awesome.

will they be changing the name to BCAAEE or XTEEND due to the newly added ethyl ester? ;)

I still have no idea why anyone would attach an EE to BCAA.

Wow.

Amazin Caucasian
03-18-2006, 08:32 PM
ha i hope you know i am kidding

zcsmith
03-24-2006, 08:46 AM
A follow up on a question that I had earlier about Xtend and calories.

The old packaging's nutritional label had a serving at 40 calories. This seems to make sense, as a serving had 10g of BCAA.

Now, the new labeling, in accordance to the FDA, has the product at ZERO calories. Still has the 10g of BCAA per serving, though.

Through the thread you see Chuck recommend to Derek to not count the calories from Xtend in his diet.

So, here are my comments and questions - do the 10g of BCAA in Xtend have the same impact on the body as 10g of "normal" protein? If someone is on a very restricted diet, having to watch everything they eat, such as a precontest diet (down to the number of almonds, Derek!), why would you NOT want to count the number of calories that you're getting from Xtend? Looking at Derek's journal, he's getting around 14 servings of Xtend/day. Assuming that in reality there ARE calories in Xtend (screw what the FDA days), he's getting about an extra 280 calories in his diet daily that he's been told not to count! How can this be?

Not trying to discount what's been said or anything, just simply trying to gain a better understanding of what's going on here, and how to include the product in my diet.

Thanks!

zcsmith
03-25-2006, 03:50 AM
Bumpity Bump

Fryzie
03-25-2006, 04:30 AM
Im going to start maintaning for a while.. ill be working out 4x week and fast walking 3x week. Is it worth still buying the xtend when maintaining? It is fairly costly...

Basketball.P
03-25-2006, 04:59 AM
was wonderin if it was oke to mix ON 100% whey with some xtend for an after workout shake??

young_squatter
03-25-2006, 05:17 AM
Im going to start maintaning for a while.. ill be working out 4x week and fast walking 3x week. Is it worth still buying the xtend when maintaining? It is fairly costly...
In my opinion yes, its smart to take BCAA rather maintaining,bulking, or cutting. Absouetly necessary no, but it can help you.


was wonderin if it was oke to mix ON 100% whey with some xtend for an after workout shake??

This is perfectly fine and a great idea, I would opt for Primaforce Substance WPI to mix with xtend because it complements the taste of xtend vary well.
The best thing to do would be to mix xtend+whey, and start sipping this 15 min pre workout and continue sipping throughout workout. This way you get a flow of BCAA and EAA as well.

Basketball.P
03-25-2006, 11:00 AM
hmmm good idea young squatter but im takin no explode before my work out and all the glutamine in the xtend+whey will kill it.

young_squatter
03-25-2006, 11:31 AM
hmmm good idea young squatter but im takin no explode before my work out and all the glutamine in the xtend+whey will kill it.

hmm, well I would recommend next time you go with a different creatine like Designer Supplements Xceed or a bulk CEE powder, Not that No Xplode is bad, but in my opinion take a different creatine pre workout so you can sip BCAA/EAA pre/during/post workout out weighs the benefits of just No Xplode.

zcsmith
03-25-2006, 02:10 PM
Bump again for my question above.

Beast
03-25-2006, 02:25 PM
Amino acids have calories. 1 gram of Amino acids has 4 calories. Chuck and I are not counting Xtend or Glutamine towards my caloric intake because we view it as supplemental nutrition, also something we will not be removing, so no need to count the cals.



A follow up on a question that I had earlier about Xtend and calories.

The old packaging's nutritional label had a serving at 40 calories. This seems to make sense, as a serving had 10g of BCAA.

Now, the new labeling, in accordance to the FDA, has the product at ZERO calories. Still has the 10g of BCAA per serving, though.

Through the thread you see Chuck recommend to Derek to not count the calories from Xtend in his diet.

So, here are my comments and questions - do the 10g of BCAA in Xtend have the same impact on the body as 10g of "normal" protein? If someone is on a very restricted diet, having to watch everything they eat, such as a precontest diet (down to the number of almonds, Derek!), why would you NOT want to count the number of calories that you're getting from Xtend? Looking at Derek's journal, he's getting around 14 servings of Xtend/day. Assuming that in reality there ARE calories in Xtend (screw what the FDA days), he's getting about an extra 280 calories in his diet daily that he's been told not to count! How can this be?

Not trying to discount what's been said or anything, just simply trying to gain a better understanding of what's going on here, and how to include the product in my diet.

Thanks!

zcsmith
03-25-2006, 03:21 PM
Amino acids have calories. 1 gram of Amino acids has 4 calories. Chuck and I are not counting Xtend or Glutamine towards my caloric intake because we view it as supplemental nutrition, also something we will not be removing, so no need to count the cals.

Derek -

Thank you for the prompt response, as well as the clarification on protein. However, I do have a follow up question:

As far as supplemental nutrition, where do you draw the line? You don't count the calories that are in Xtend or glutamine, yet you probably do count the calories that are in powdered protein (Substance). How about Sesamin and fish oil, also both considered supplements. Would you count the fat that you get from those products? All of the above are considered "supplements", and I can't imagine you removing any of them from your routine any time soon.

My apologies for the constant questions, but again, I'm just trying to better understand some products. Thanks!

Adamb83
03-25-2006, 07:04 PM
My Xtend should be coming in the mail on monday. I'm cutting for another two weeks.

I have two options:

Megadose(12 scoops) it for the remainder of my cut, use no BCCA's during my clean bulk that will follow.

Dose it normally(6 scoops) for the remainder of my cut, and 16 days into my clean bulk.

I guess the real questions is, can you see solid results from Xtend in only 15 days, or am I better off going for the 30?

young_squatter
03-25-2006, 07:49 PM
My Xtend should be coming in the mail on monday. I'm cutting for another two weeks.

I have two options:

Megadose(12 scoops) it for the remainder of my cut, use no BCCA's during my clean bulk that will follow.

Dose it normally(6 scoops) for the remainder of my cut, and 16 days into my clean bulk.

I guess the real questions is, can you see solid results from Xtend in only 15 days, or am I better off going for the 30?

you can see some good results with in 15 days, either way would be fine. Mega dosing on a cut would make you have less of a chance of losing mass and actually could gain some if diet is in order.

Beast
03-26-2006, 12:04 PM
Ask all the questions you want, I have no problem answering :)

I do not count the calories from Xtend, Glutamin, Fish Oil, CLA, or Sesamin, mainly because the metabolic effects these supplements have FAR out weigh and caloric content they have. If I need to decrease my calories, removing any of these is not an option, therefore I do not ever count them in my caloric intake.



Derek -

Thank you for the prompt response, as well as the clarification on protein. However, I do have a follow up question:

As far as supplemental nutrition, where do you draw the line? You don't count the calories that are in Xtend or glutamine, yet you probably do count the calories that are in powdered protein (Substance). How about Sesamin and fish oil, also both considered supplements. Would you count the fat that you get from those products? All of the above are considered "supplements", and I can't imagine you removing any of them from your routine any time soon.

My apologies for the constant questions, but again, I'm just trying to better understand some products. Thanks!

Adamb83
03-26-2006, 12:37 PM
Thanks.

BTW, Beast, I read through your mega-dose experiment today. Took me a while to finish, haha.

Anyway, it's all good stuff, with a lot of useful information.

I think I am going to megadose Xtend after that. I'm thinking 10 scoops on workout days, and deciding between 6-8 on non w/o.

I know you used 14 scoops, but I currently weigh only 160 lbs, so I'm thinking this schedual would still be considered megadosing for my weight?

Beast
03-26-2006, 01:26 PM
Thanks.

BTW, Beast, I read through your mega-dose experiment today. Took me a while to finish, haha.

Anyway, it's all good stuff, with a lot of useful information.

I think I am going to megadose Xtend after that. I'm thinking 10 scoops on workout days, and deciding between 6-8 on non w/o.

I know you used 14 scoops, but I currently weigh only 160 lbs, so I'm thinking this schedual would still be considered megadosing for my weight?

I think 12 scoops would be the optimal amount for a 200 pounder. At 160, 8 scoops should be sufficient, but you will see greater gains if you use 10 or 12 scoops, that is not saying you will not see awesome gains at 8 scoops, but in the case of BCAA more is better (to a point).

Adamb83
03-28-2006, 04:00 PM
I think 12 scoops would be the optimal amount for a 200 pounder. At 160, 8 scoops should be sufficient, but you will see greater gains if you use 10 or 12 scoops, that is not saying you will not see awesome gains at 8 scoops, but in the case of BCAA more is better (to a point).

Thanks. I'm on my second day right now at 12 scoops, and starting to love it. At first I hated the taste, but I think I mixed in way too much Xtend with not enough water. Now I think I got the balance right, and it is growing on me.


One question I have though; When I first add the xtend, it doesn't mix completely. However, the more time passes, the more it seems to mix, and the weaker it seems to taste(Which is good).

So It got me wondering, is it ok to have a gallon of the stuff sitting in my fridge all day(First concern is the temp. Second is the amount of time it's been sitting), or should I be mixing it 2 scoops at a time through the day? Sorry for the somewhat ignorant question, but I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the composition of amino acids. Thanks

young_squatter
03-28-2006, 04:11 PM
So It got me wondering, is it ok to have a gallon of the stuff sitting in my fridge all day(First concern is the temp. Second is the amount of time it's been sitting), or should I be mixing it 2 scoops at a time through the day? Sorry for the somewhat ignorant question, but I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the composition of amino acids. Thanks

Yes, this is what I do. I mix mine the night before and let it sit over night. Works great.

HsWrestler
04-07-2006, 12:35 PM
First of all I just wanna say xtend tastes like candy. Second of all Xtend watermelon + Substance Wpi + Body Octane = Sour watermelon jolly ranchers.

unixfudotnet
05-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Thank you very much for the collective FAQ!

My 90 serving tub of grape came in today from ordering online from bodybuilding.com.

Nice to know what I should do with it. I should have gotten 3 tubs, I weigh over 200 lbs. Next week.

Now I just need more sleep, 6-7 hours is bad news ;)

RBEliminator
05-28-2006, 02:39 PM
Nice.


dito

GTRSkyline
05-28-2006, 11:46 PM
In terms of the amount of water to mix the dosage in, what do you guys reccomend for the 3 serving pre/during/post workout method.

Package says, 16oz of water per serving, that's 48oz of water per 3 servings!!! My shaker only goes up to 20oz!!

Is this what mose people do, or do you guys take it with less water?

Serpens Aeon
05-29-2006, 01:05 AM
In terms of the amount of water to mix the dosage in, what do you guys reccomend for the 3 serving pre/during/post workout method.

Package says, 16oz of water per serving, that's 48oz of water per 3 servings!!! My shaker only goes up to 20oz!!

Is this what mose people do, or do you guys take it with less water?

The trend is to dump as much as you can afford into a big ol' gallon (4 liter) jug, shake it up, and drink it from there.

young_squatter
05-29-2006, 07:17 AM
In terms of the amount of water to mix the dosage in, what do you guys reccomend for the 3 serving pre/during/post workout method.

Package says, 16oz of water per serving, that's 48oz of water per 3 servings!!! My shaker only goes up to 20oz!!

Is this what mose people do, or do you guys take it with less water?

I personally recommend 20-24 oz water, might be a little strong. Like 8-16 oz per scoop. But 20 oz is fine. :)
I put 3 servings in a half gallon jog and take that to the gym with me.

GTRSkyline
05-29-2006, 04:52 PM
I personally recommend 20-24 oz water, might be a little strong. Like 8-16 oz per scoop. But 20 oz is fine. :)
I put 3 servings in a half gallon jog and take that to the gym with me.

Ok thanks, I will try this.
The taste is actually quite good, so further concentration won't hurt me.

young_squatter
05-29-2006, 04:56 PM
Ok thanks, I will try this.
The taste is actually quite good, so further concentration won't hurt me.
Nope :) I like it to. to strong for some in 20 oz.

GTRSkyline
05-29-2006, 04:59 PM
Nope :) I like it to. to strong for some in 20 oz.

Oh ok.
Why does it start to taste bitter?
Or too sweet?

young_squatter
05-29-2006, 05:05 PM
Oh ok.
Why does it start to taste bitter?
Or too sweet?
To sweet for some people, I love it, but others prefer more water.

Hogg
07-06-2006, 01:50 AM
Is it ok for girls to take too, my wife wants to try it lol

gbg
07-12-2008, 09:07 AM
Will freezing Xtend alter anything? I mix it and freeze the water so in the summer while sipping through the day it's icy! Especially during a tough day at the beach :D Thanks

TangoandCash
07-12-2008, 09:08 AM
Will freezing Xtend alter anything? I mix it and freeze the water so in the summer while sipping through the day it's icy! Especially during a tough day at the beach :D Thanks

good idea, nice.

TheManofSteel
07-12-2008, 11:33 AM
wow major-strong-bump

AlwaysTryin
08-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Sorry to bring up a really old thread but I needed advice on Xtend.

I am currently cutting for a competition and take Scivation Xtend during my workout and post workout.

I take Glutamine in my shake through the day and the shake before bed (straight L-Glutamine) and was wondering if I could drink some Xtend instead of this separate to my shake or if that is pointless

csbrown147
05-20-2010, 08:35 AM
Hey Beast. I know I am a about 4 years late but great write-up. I am getting this stuff tonight!

LittleSpartan
06-09-2010, 08:02 AM
Yeo Beast, you think you can talk with the Scivation owners to make a 1 gallon Bottle branded with Scivation? It would be great to carry one of my favourite brand around and drinking it everyday with Xtend :D

tvbalaji
08-23-2010, 06:15 AM
Hello -

I have a question. I was looking to include some sort of BCAA in my diet and came upon Scivation Xtend and got it(great taste btw!). Earlier I used to have 1 scoop whey+milk +1 banana 45 mins before i hit the gym. I work out early am's. Now should I skip the pre workout meal and just take a scoop of xtend 15 mins beforwe work out and then a scoop during workout or have xtend and then milk and a banana? (I guess it would be ok to skip the whey since xtend supplies the BCAA. Aprreciate the advice from you experts!

Thanks,

B.

The Solution
08-23-2010, 06:24 AM
Hello -

I have a question. I was looking to include some sort of BCAA in my diet and came upon Scivation Xtend and got it(great taste btw!). Earlier I used to have 1 scoop whey+milk +1 banana 45 mins before i hit the gym. I work out early am's. Now should I skip the pre workout meal and just take a scoop of xtend 15 mins beforwe work out and then a scoop during workout or have xtend and then milk and a banana? (I guess it would be ok to skip the whey since xtend supplies the BCAA. Aprreciate the advice from you experts!

Thanks,

B.

Skipping the meal is totally up to you and your performance in the gym. I know a lot of individuals who workout on a fasted stomach and just sip on Xtend during my workouts and have noticed great gains in the gym and little/no muscle loss while doing this. Some people can handle hitting the weights hard with or without a pre-workout meal. Either way take 4 scoops of Xtend during your workouts and then follow it with a shake/meal 30-45 minutes later.

Hope this helps, and thanks for the support.

CyberTracker_old
03-17-2011, 06:46 PM
Scivation Xtend product page highly recommends stacking with SciVation Quake 10.0. It does not explain how. Using the information available, my summation follows:

PRE-WORKOUT
Prepare: 2 Scps of Quake 10.0 in 8 oz of water+
2 Scps of Xtend in 16 oz of water. Consume 15 - 30 minutes before training.

Should SciVation Xtend & SciVation Quake be consumed concurrently, or should I allow a 15 minute space between the two? SciVation Quake contains creatine and SciVation Xtend contains L-Glutamine. Will they compete for absorption?

INTRA & POST-WORKOUT RECOVERY for 180 lbs
Prepare: 4 Scps of Xtend W/32 oz of water. Consume 1/2 during and 1/2 after workout.

The total water requirement is 56 ounces for pre, intra, and post. I normally consume 64 ounces during my 75-90 minute weight training session which is close enough, unless I have to place a 15 - 30 minute break between Pre-workout Scivation Xtend + Scivation Quake 10.0. My training is similar to circuit training...lots of heavy breathing and sweat!

gymathlete
05-22-2011, 05:21 PM
quick question........ Should Xtend be taken on rest days when you are not lifting?

Madevilz
05-22-2011, 05:27 PM
quick question........ Should Xtend be taken on rest days when you are not lifting?

no

strong blast from the past

The Solution
05-22-2011, 05:31 PM
quick question........ Should Xtend be taken on rest days when you are not lifting?


no

strong blast from the past

Not true at all. Ever ready Layne Norton's PDF/Powerpoint on Muscle Protein Synthesis? 3g Lecuine/BCAA's between meals has been studied and it shows what they can do with less meals in a day (3-4) spaced 4-6 hours apart.

How about if an individual does a HIIT cardio session on an offday? Would it be optimal/beneficial to take during that time? Absolutely I know many contest prep coaches who advocate that while people are cutting up and getting ready for a show due to the catabolic effects HIIT can be on the body and leg recovery.

Madevilz
05-22-2011, 05:36 PM
How about if an individual does a HIIT cardio session on an offday?

Wouldn't consider it an off day then.

I believe Alan Aragon when he says you don't need extra free form BCAA if you get enough protein from meat.


3g Lecuine/BCAA's between meals has been studied and it shows what they can do with less meals in a day (3-4) spaced 4-6 hours apart.


Plenty of IF users get away with 2-3 meals a day, and are fine without taking BCAAs between meals :)
I like Martin Berkhan's suggestion of only using it for fasted workouts.

gymathlete
05-22-2011, 06:04 PM
So I can take it ESP if I am doing cardio or sports like basketball?

nareshisking
08-23-2011, 10:12 PM
Peeps! i just got the new formula for xtend. it says one serving is one scoop? i used to take 5 to 6 scoops with the old formula. that big a jump?

giarmyjoe
08-23-2011, 10:40 PM
Peeps! i just got the new formula for xtend. it says one serving is one scoop? i used to take 5 to 6 scoops with the old formula. that big a jump?

One scoop of new formula=two scoops of old one

So take 2-3 scoops

slimcity13
09-15-2011, 12:13 PM
Vitamin shoppe didn't carry and then I went to GNC and the guy handed me a box of Extendz lmao. What stores carry them?

Speizach
05-23-2012, 12:21 PM
i just started a low carb cutting phase and wanted to maintain as much muscle as a i can. i bought Xtend and tried it out. I was getting increasingly nauseous through out the day. I used the flavored gallon of water sip through out the day method. by the time I got to my training session after work around 6 PM I could barely move without wanting to vomit. I thought maybe it was something I ate, since I have never had an adverse reaction to any supplements before. I took the next day off and didn't use Xtend. The following day after my day off, I only used it during my workout, mainly because I just forgot to bring it with me to work, and about 20-25 minutes into my workout that feeling of nausea came right back. I have since stop using Xtend, but I would like to finish my jug since it wasn't very cheap and I don't want to lose any muscle while dieting. I didn't mix it 6 scoops the gallon, I only used 3. could that be the problem? I would think if I didn't mix it strong enough it shouldn't have that negative nausea effect on my stomach? Please help me out here. Thanks.

GluteusMaximus
05-23-2012, 12:24 PM
Vitamin shoppe didn't carry and then I went to GNC and the guy handed me a box of Extendz lmao. What stores carry them?

The internet