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chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 02:11 PM
I am currently agnostic. I do not know if there is a God or not. I am leaning on the fact that there is a god because there is so many miraculous things in the world and so many creatures that defy evolution that we can completely rule out evolution to be even relevant to how the world was created.

There are however so many things pointing to the non-existance of a God. There are several gods or deities in the past that are similar to Jesus Christ. Take Dyonisus; people believed that he was the son of god. The similarties are this: He was born of a virgin mother, his birth was celebrated around christmas and he is associated with turning water into wine. This story is obviously not true because the virgin birth was that of zeus sewing an unborn child in his leg and transfering this over to a virgin lady who gave birth but the concept of miraculous conception is in the sense the same. A popular belief and most pushed today is the similarities in the Egyptian religion and christianity. The sun god Horus is most portrayed in being similar to Jesus and concepts behind the Egyptian religion are the same. Baptism, communion, circumsicion, the list goes further. I have done some research and there are over 200 claims in similarities in these two relgions. However, many of these are bogus or are similar but way out there in left field. There is a similarity which is taken from the Egyptian Book of the Dead spell 125 i believe which is 125 "sins" that you should not do. Almost all 10 commandments are straight out of this book.

The basic concept of religon is this: good vs evil. You are bad you go to hell, you are good you spend eternity in heaven. This concept was around way before the christian religion was establish. In fact several religions were around for thousands of years before the Christian religion came around. The egyptian religon was around 4000 bc and the Jewish religion era was more around the 500 BC era.

How does god explain this? Before people believed in one god, what happened to them? Why have steps leading up to the event where people began believing in one god?

Why was there many gods? In the past people "personified" the essential things of life. Take Persephone; she was spent part of the year in Hades (the underworld) and part of the year out of Hades. This was a personification of the renewal of spring and the death of winter. They believed in worshipping the essential things in life because every single year their crops dies and every single year they spring life. They knew without these things they would not survive.

nonAtlas
01-11-2008, 02:14 PM
I am currently agnostic. I do not know if there is a God or not. I am leaning on the fact that there is a god because there is so many miraculous things in the world and so many creatures that defy evolution that we can completely rule out evolution to be even relevant to how the world was created.

There are however so many things pointing to the non-existance of a God. There are several gods or deities in the past that are similar to Jesus Christ. Take Dyonisus; people believed that he was the son of god. The similarties are this: He was born of a virgin mother, his birth was celebrated around christmas and he is associated with turning water into wine. This story is obviously not true because the virgin birth was that of zeus sewing an unborn child in his leg and transfering this over to a virgin lady who gave birth but the concept of miraculous conception is in the sense the same. A popular belief and most pushed today is the similarities in the Egyptian religion and christianity. The sun god Horus is most portrayed in being similar to Jesus and concepts behind the Egyptian religion are the same. Baptism, communion, circumsicion, the list goes further. I have done some research and there are over 200 claims in similarities in these two relgions. However, many of these are bogus or are similar but way out there in left field. There is a similarity which is taken from the Egyptian Book of the Dead spell 125 i believe which is 125 "sins" that you should not do. Almost all 10 commandments are straight out of this book.

The basic concept of religon is this: good vs evil. You are bad you go to hell, you are good you spend eternity in heaven. This concept was around way before the christian religion was establish. In fact several religions were around for thousands of years before the Christian religion came around. The egyptian religon was around 4000 bc and the Jewish religion era was more around the 500 BC era.

How does god explain this? Before people believed in one god, what happened to them? Why have steps leading up to the event where people began believing in one god?

Why was there many gods? In the past people "personified" the essential things of life. Take Persephone; she was spent part of the year in Hades (the underworld) and part of the year out of Hades. This was a personification of the renewal of spring and the death of winter. They believed in worshipping the essential things in life because every single year their crops dies and every single year they spring life. They knew without these things they would not survive.

Yes many have claimed to be like Him or to actually be "gods". Too bad for their claims that their "gods" did not create all the universe and the miracle of life, or pay a terrible price to forgive all humanity's sin from the fall of Adam to the final day of this Age.

Until they can change this fact there really is no challenge to the reality of Messiah Jesus.

:)

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 02:26 PM
and so many creatures that defy evolution that we can completely rule out evolution to be even relevant to how the world was created.

Name some.

P.S. Evolution has nothing to do with how "the world was created".

nonAtlas
01-11-2008, 02:33 PM
Name some.

P.S. Evolution has nothing to do with how "the world was created".

But it indisputably DOES require that the world have been created, which confirms the necessity of the Creator's existence and active work of making all we see. And that further requires that the salvation He has provided each of us be a reality exclusive to Him and your accepting Him as Savior and Lord.

:)

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 02:35 PM
Name some.

P.S. Evolution has nothing to do with how "the world was created".

i'll name one. The giraffe

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 02:36 PM
Name some.

P.S. Evolution has nothing to do with how "the world was created".

how about the human

LunicaAshes
01-11-2008, 02:41 PM
i'll name one. The giraffe

That's like the easiest one ever. It was the example a teacher gave when I was in HS.

There's a bunch of creatures all eating leaves. Some have longer necks than the rest, thus they get more food because they can reach high branches no one else can. More food = more/healthier babies = that mutation for a long neck gets into the population until that's all that's left over the course of thousands of years.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 02:43 PM
i'll name one. The giraffe


how about the human

Ok be honest, if you are a troll just PM me and Ill let you be to have your fun. Because if you are not, then you obviously haven't the SLIGHTEST understanding of evolution.

LunicaAshes
01-11-2008, 02:44 PM
P.S. Evolution has nothing to do with how "the world was created".

Exactly. I refer the OP to my sig.

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 02:55 PM
Exactly. I refer the OP to my sig.

Since you done much research about evolution. How was the world created? The big bang theory? Evolution does go back to how the world was created. The big ball of mass that was hit several times with meteorites filled with oxygen and water. The lava overflowed heating the earth's core temperature. Tiny cells evolved into life into animals into humans.

What about the several creatures that defy evolution? What about the Giraffe that has a sponge next to it's brain that if this was not their the blood rush to the brain when he takes a drink would kill him instantly. So when the first giraffe decided he needed to evolve this mechanism he dies instantly? Explain how that evolved? Oh yea and also when the giraffe raises it's head it has things in it's next that stop the blood flow temporary to keep him from passing out. How was this evolved before the giraffe is extinct?

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 02:57 PM
Since you done much research about evolution. How was the world created? The big bang theory? Evolution does go back to how the world was created. The big ball of mass that was hit several times with meteorites filled with oxygen and water. The lava overflowed heating the earth's core temperature. Tiny cells evolved into life into animals into humans.

What about the several creatures that defy evolution? What about the Giraffe that has a sponge next to it's brain that if this was not their the blood rush to the brain when he takes a drink would kill him instantly. So when the first giraffe decided he needed to evolve this mechanism he dies instantly? Explain how that evolved? Oh yea and also when the giraffe raises it's head it has things in it's next that stop the blood flow temporary to keep him from passing out. How was this evolved before the giraffe is extinct?

Please give us a basic overview of how evolution occurs so I can see at what level we need to reply to you. Again, just a basic overview.

LunicaAshes
01-11-2008, 02:58 PM
Since you done much research about evolution. How was the world created? The big bang theory? Evolution does go back to how the world was created. The big ball of mass that was hit several times with meteorites filled with oxygen and water. The lava overflowed heating the earth's core temperature. Tiny cells evolved into life into animals into humans.

What about the several creatures that defy evolution? What about the Giraffe that has a sponge next to it's brain that if this was not their the blood rush to the brain when he takes a drink would kill him instantly. So when the first giraffe decided he needed to evolve this mechanism he dies instantly? Explain how that evolved? Oh yea and also when the giraffe raises it's head it has things in it's next that stop the blood flow temporary to keep him from passing out. How was this evolved before the giraffe is extinct?

LOL, phail.

If you're for real, go learn the very basics of this **** and then return.

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 03:02 PM
Please give us a basic overview of how evolution occurs so I can see at what level we need to reply to you. Again, just a basic overview.

Evolution occurs by evolving the DNA from offsrping to offspring which in some cases evolves into a new species. The DNA is a set of genetic code telling the cell how act ect.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Evolution occurs by evolving the DNA from offsrping to offspring which in some cases evolves into a new species. The DNA is a set of genetic code telling the cell how act ect.

How does it evolve?

Violator009
01-11-2008, 03:03 PM
I am currently agnostic. I do not know if there is a God or not. I am leaning on the fact that there is a god because there is so many miraculous things in the world and so many creatures that defy evolution that we can completely rule out evolution to be even relevant to how the world was created.

There are however so many things pointing to the non-existance of a God. There are several gods or deities in the past that are similar to Jesus Christ. Take Dyonisus; people believed that he was the son of god. The similarties are this: He was born of a virgin mother, his birth was celebrated around christmas and he is associated with turning water into wine. This story is obviously not true because the virgin birth was that of zeus sewing an unborn child in his leg and transfering this over to a virgin lady who gave birth but the concept of miraculous conception is in the sense the same. A popular belief and most pushed today is the similarities in the Egyptian religion and christianity. The sun god Horus is most portrayed in being similar to Jesus and concepts behind the Egyptian religion are the same. Baptism, communion, circumsicion, the list goes further. I have done some research and there are over 200 claims in similarities in these two relgions. However, many of these are bogus or are similar but way out there in left field. There is a similarity which is taken from the Egyptian Book of the Dead spell 125 i believe which is 125 "sins" that you should not do. Almost all 10 commandments are straight out of this book.

The basic concept of religon is this: good vs evil. You are bad you go to hell, you are good you spend eternity in heaven. This concept was around way before the christian religion was establish. In fact several religions were around for thousands of years before the Christian religion came around. The egyptian religon was around 4000 bc and the Jewish religion era was more around the 500 BC era.

How does god explain this? Before people believed in one god, what happened to them? Why have steps leading up to the event where people began believing in one god?

Why was there many gods? In the past people "personified" the essential things of life. Take Persephone; she was spent part of the year in Hades (the underworld) and part of the year out of Hades. This was a personification of the renewal of spring and the death of winter. They believed in worshipping the essential things in life because every single year their crops dies and every single year they spring life. They knew without these things they would not survive.

All i can say is continue searching for the truth and goodluck...

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 03:08 PM
How does it evolve?

There would be several ways that it could evolve but a mutation of a cell would be the obvious choice. Take bacteria that may be killed by antibiotics. If one happens to "mutate" and not be killed by the antibiotics and is no immune can replicate itself, evolving.

LunicaAshes
01-11-2008, 03:09 PM
There would be several ways that it could evolve but a mutation of a cell would be the obvious choice. Take bacteria that may be killed by antibiotics. If one happens to "mutate" and not be killed by the antibiotics and is no immune can replicate itself, evolving.

What would the other ways be?

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 03:11 PM
When did this thread become about evolution? The simple fact is their are several animals that had to reach a point in evolution where the process would stop or the evolution is not needed. It cannot be explained. Whether evolution is the answer or not it has not convinced me.

LunicaAshes
01-11-2008, 03:14 PM
When did this thread become about evolution?

When you brought it up in your original post. Running out of fuel already?

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 03:16 PM
What would the other ways be?

How about gamma rays, x-rays, nuclear radiation. Umm...anything that can mutate a cell? It's funny that you ask me all these questions but did not answer the simple giraffe questions which is one of the several animals that defy evolution.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 03:20 PM
There would be several ways that it could evolve but a mutation of a cell would be the obvious choice. Take bacteria that may be killed by antibiotics. If one happens to "mutate" and not be killed by the antibiotics and is no immune can replicate itself, evolving.

Great, so mutations! So when the giraffes necks started becoming longer, which ones do you think survived more often?

Rep300
01-11-2008, 03:20 PM
Anyone who thinks that animals "decide" to evolve hasn't the slightest clue as to what evolultion is all about.

Also, evolution has nothing to do with the origins of the universe. Evolution applies only to the developement of life after the universe was already established. PLEASE....read a book......Dawkins' "God Delusion" is probably the best possible place to start regarding this topic, it will save you years of research.

Most people think that Dawkins' new book is all about religion, but it actually has several brilliant chapters that focus on evolution........After all, Dawkins is the world's premier authority on Evolutionary Biology.

Don't make the mistake of listening to a religious fanatic talk about evolution, because they don't have a clue what they are talking about. Dawkins is THE expert. If you want to read a book about evolution that has no religious talk in it, then he has a couple. "The Selfish Gene" and "The Blind Watchmaker" are both pure Evolutionary Biology.

Cheers
Ron

basement iron
01-11-2008, 03:23 PM
How about gamma rays, x-rays, nuclear radiation. Umm...anything that can mutate a cell? It's funny that you ask me all these questions but did not answer the simple giraffe questions which is one of the several animals that defy evolution.

When did your thread become about evolution? After that first paragraph that's when. lol

And the giraffe was already explained to you.

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Great, so mutations! So when the giraffes necks started becoming longer, which ones do you think survived more often?

I am just stating the fact that if the giraffe had to evolve this functionality or die. When it realized this needs to be done it's dead. There is no millions or years evolving this it's dead before it even knows it needs to evolve. This is the simplist example of an animal that defies evolution. This is not a debate about evolution not being true because in theory it could happen, in theory religion couple happen. Your giving faith in evolution as about as crazy as christians give faith in their god. The fact is there is holes in both and we just don't know.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 03:30 PM
I am just stating the fact that if the giraffe had to evolve this functionality or die. When it realized this needs to be done it's dead. There is no millions or years evolving this it's dead before it even knows it needs to evolve. This is the simplist example of an animal that defies evolution. This is not a debate about evolution not being true because in theory it could happen, in theory religion couple happen. Your giving faith in evolution as about as crazy as christians give faith in their god. The fact is there is holes in both and we just don't know.

No, the problem is, you are looking at evolution wrong. You are acting as if a giraffes neck just randomly grew 8 feet over night, or it had a baby giraffe with that long of a neck. The formation of a giraffes neck took millions of years, and along with that so did the other mutations that provided the mechanisms for the giraffe to survive with such a long neck. I think you are arguing from an irreducible complexity standpoint.

chadpeppersleb
01-11-2008, 03:39 PM
No, the problem is, you are looking at evolution wrong. You are acting as if a giraffes neck just randomly grew 8 feet over night, or it had a baby giraffe with that long of a neck. The formation of a giraffes neck took millions of years, and along with that so did the other mutations that provided the mechanisms for the giraffe to survive with such a long neck. I think you are arguing from an irreducible complexity standpoint.

You just made an excellent point. Of course this takes millions of years to evolve. There is one animal in particular that makes no sense. THis is the australian Mallefolee, it has to keep it's built in nest a certain temperature and humidity or the animals die. How can you explain a DNA evolving in this particular way, the need and the ability to know exactly how to fix this. When this animal evolved and the first offspring needs this exact temperature and humidity how does this accomplish this? If it doesn't the species is done, extinct.

It's nice to debate with you but i'm heading out of the office. Have a good weekend.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 03:43 PM
You just made an excellent point. Of course this takes millions of years to evolve. There is one animal in particular that makes no sense. THis is the australian Mallefolee, it has to keep it's built in nest a certain temperature and humidity or the animals die. How can you explain a DNA evolving in this particular way, the need and the ability to know exactly how to fix this. When this animal evolved and the first offspring needs this exact temperature and humidity how does this accomplish this? If it doesn't the species is done, extinct.

It's nice to debate with you but i'm heading out of the office. Have a good weekend.Never heard of this animal, is it a bird?

Anyways, again, irreducible complexity. Animals don't instantly form traits or body parts fully formed, they take thousands/millions of generations. So once again, when it got to the point that this specific temperature was needed, natural selection had already adjusted for this.

Goonmonger
01-11-2008, 03:50 PM
those people copeid of God and Jesus, its all satan.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 03:52 PM
those people copeid of God and Jesus, its all satan.

What did they copy?

LunicaAshes
01-11-2008, 04:01 PM
How about gamma rays, x-rays, nuclear radiation. Umm...anything that can mutate a cell? It's funny that you ask me all these questions but did not answer the simple giraffe questions which is one of the several animals that defy evolution.

I thought you said there were ways OTHER than mutations.

And I did answer your giraffe question. At least the first one. The next was too insane, as you seemed to make the assumption that evolution works with a plan.

It's simple. Giraffes that died didn't make babies. Those who did not did. Is it THAT hard?

DaCougarMech
01-11-2008, 04:05 PM
oh wow

I CALL TROLL

Goonmonger
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
What did they copy?

dianyus, harus, book for the dead, egytptian, greek...all tese people copied of God!

DaCougarMech
01-11-2008, 04:12 PM
dianyus, harus, book for the dead, egytptian, greek...all tese people copied of God!

thousands of years before the bible was written?

Radiomanic
01-11-2008, 04:15 PM
There is fossil evidence for the evolution of the giraffe. Not only that, but there is a cousin species of the giraffe still living called the "Okapi", obviously it's neck isn't quite so long as the giraffe's.

I imagine sexual selection may have played quite a big role too. On average, males have the longer necks and during mating times males will battle each other through neck jousting. I imagine the longer/stronger necked males win on most occasions and thus get to pass their genes on.

DaCougarMech
01-11-2008, 04:17 PM
There is fossil evidence for the evolution of the giraffe. Not only that, but there is a cousin species of the giraffe still living called the "Okapi", obviously it's neck isn't quite so long as the giraffe's.

I imagine sexual selection may have played quite a big role too. On average, males have the longer necks and during mating times males will battle each other through neck jousting. I imagine the longer/stronger necked males win on most occasions and thus get to pass their genes on.

that sounds painful

neck jousting?

Goonmonger
01-11-2008, 04:20 PM
thousands of years before the bible was written?

yea

Radiomanic
01-11-2008, 04:21 PM
that sounds painful

neck jousting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7HCIGFdBt8

You know what? This is the first time i've ever actually seen a video of giraffe's doing this lol. Read up loads though over the years.

JAGERBOY
01-11-2008, 04:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7HCIGFdBt8

You know what? This is the first time i've ever actually seen a video of giraffe's doing this lol. Read up loads though over the years.

Dude wtf, can animals not get ko'd?

Rep300
01-11-2008, 07:13 PM
That one giraffe is clearly going for the nuts.....LOL.