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dumac
12-19-2007, 04:03 PM
no one read it cause the newspaper is crap but the army bought an ad that advertises the new sign on bonus. its 1000 dollars for every month your in hs and then when you get out they give u 20000 dollar bonus.

the_invince
12-19-2007, 04:24 PM
no one read it cause the newspaper is crap but the army bought an ad that advertises the new sign on bonus. its 1000 dollars for every month your in hs and then when you get out they give u 20000 dollar bonus.

seriously? $1000 while you're still in High school? and a $20,000 bonus on graduation? where was that when I was in high school. kudos to the military for cutting students a deal like that.

azzazurna
12-19-2007, 09:00 PM
They're running short on reserves so they're trying any way they can to recruit more people.

catmando
12-19-2007, 09:03 PM
Get a bunch of your like-minded friends together and request a meeting with your Superintendent. Tell him you think it's wrong for the Army to have that ad in there.

CrusaderKnight
12-19-2007, 09:09 PM
Thats a good deal!

CrusaderKnight
12-19-2007, 09:10 PM
Get a bunch of your like-minded friends together and request a meeting with your Superintendent. Tell him you think it's wrong for the Army to have that ad in there.

Why? Its a public school, so the army should have full access. If you don't want the military at school than attend a private school.

allenkster
12-19-2007, 09:14 PM
Why? Its a public school, so the army should have full access. If you don't want the military at school than attend a private school.

x10

there are hundreds of service jobs.. it doesn't always mean you get shipped out.

Callaar21
12-19-2007, 09:19 PM
no one read it cause the newspaper is crap but the army bought an ad that advertises the new sign on bonus. its 1000 dollars for every month your in hs and then when you get out they give u 20000 dollar bonus.

Quite the incentive. I also heard they are trying to make those bonuses non taxable which I actually support.

I think it's fine for the ad to be in the school paper. If you don't want to join don't join. Some people might do it for the money , but they will earn that money, it's not a hand out.

siberian_tiger
12-19-2007, 09:23 PM
Get a bunch of your like-minded friends together and request a meeting with your Superintendent. Tell him you think it's wrong for the Army to have that ad in there.

Actually lots of businesses like to put ads in school newpapers, the newspapers like them because a lot of time they aren't funded by the school, and have to make ends meat elsewhere.

J-Bol
12-19-2007, 09:34 PM
The only draw back to this that I see is this:

They are advertised at kids that don't look toward the future. All they see is an extra $1,000/month. They sign up, and the next thing they know they are getting shipped to the middle east out of HS b/c all they thought about was the money. Kinda seems like they are preying on the unexpected and mentally immature.

ljwede7
12-19-2007, 09:37 PM
The only draw back to this that I see is this:

They are advertised at kids that don't look toward the future. All they see is an extra $1,000/month. They sign up, and the next thing they know they are getting shipped to the middle east out of HS b/c all they thought about was the money. Kinda seems like they are preying on the unexpected and mentally immature.

Indeed. Recruiters are very, very good at convincing kids who don't have concrete plans that the military is all kinds of awesome. The Marines I talked to were very disappointed when I laid out my life goals (including ROTC...I'd end up being their boss). They knew they wouldn't get me.

siberian_tiger
12-19-2007, 09:37 PM
The only draw back to this that I see is this:

They are advertised at kids that don't look toward the future. All they see is an extra $1,000/month. They sign up, and the next thing they know they are getting shipped to the middle east out of HS b/c all they thought about was the money. Kinda seems like they are preying on the unexpected and mentally immature.

Young men will always die in wars created by old men.

Idontakefishoil
12-19-2007, 09:39 PM
I don't think it should be legal to recruit those under 18. I fully support the military right to actively recruit on college campuses, however.

dmoney2023
12-19-2007, 09:40 PM
Get a bunch of your like-minded friends together and request a meeting with your Superintendent. Tell him you think it's wrong for the Army to have that ad in there.


LAME

Blau
12-19-2007, 09:44 PM
The only draw back to this that I see is this:

They are advertised at kids that don't look toward the future. All they see is an extra $1,000/month. They sign up, and the next thing they know they are getting shipped to the middle east out of HS b/c all they thought about was the money. Kinda seems like they are preying on the unexpected and mentally immature.

Sad, but very true.

This is how I see the ad thing: If they're paying for the ad then there's no problem. Ton's of people put ads in school papers. If, however, they are forcing them to print it, which I doubt that they are, then there's a problem. If the paper's advertising coordinator or chair, or whatever decided that they didn't want to run the ad, and the editor, or whoever it might be, agreed and didn't run the ad, then I don't see a problem. You should be able to turn down ads to something you oppose.

My problem with the military and schools is that the schools have no choice as far as recruiting is concerned. If you take federal funding, you are required by strings attached to the funding to allow recruiting on your campus. That's ****ty in my opinion.

Nagalfar
12-19-2007, 09:51 PM
I don't think it should be legal to recruit those under 18. I fully support the military right to actively recruit on college campuses, however.

They cant, they can only recruit WITH parents permission when under 18... and ALL of my sons were enlisted into the Corps by age 17, 2 still serving, and 1 has done his time... and what is the matter with the military most of you act like it's worthless.. you will learn more about the world, life, and the real value of things while in the military, not to mention there are one hell of a lot of good jobs there that people would NEVER have a chance at doing outside the military, let alone the training that is available... I have NEVER been sorry, nor are none of my my sons, and the 2 serving are in the sandbox, and HAVE BEEN MORE THAN ONCE.. what the hell have most of you done to make the world a better place, not all, but most..

I get so damn sick of seeing people look down on the military I cant stand it, its called service to something MORE THAN YOURSELF, granted a lot of you dont have a clue as to what that is all about... how dare someone actually believe in something bigger than themselves, right?.. I see a hell of a lot of people DAILY who are 40 year old KIDS... have never grown up, never will, the military does one hell of a lot of good to those who choose it, it would have done those 40 year old KIDS who are clueless to everything around them a lot of good, their only real conflict in life is between ignorance and apathy.. and so far ignorance appears to be winning hand down.

Chicken tracks are the excuse, not the reason.. it's a old gig, I heard it in the 60's and 70'd and I hear it again, cat is proof of that.

catmando
12-19-2007, 10:15 PM
They cant, they can only recruit WITH parents permission when under 18... and ALL of my sons were enlisted into the Corps by age 17, 2 still serving, and 1 has done his time... and what is the matter with the military most of you act like it's worthless.. you will learn more about the world, life, and the real value of things while in the military, not to mention there are one hell of a lot of good jobs there that people would NEVER have a chance at doing outside the military, let alone the training that is available... I have NEVER been sorry, nor are none of my my sons, and the 2 serving are in the sandbox, and HAVE BEEN MORE THAN ONCE.. what the hell have most of you done to make the world a better place, not all, but most..

I get so damn sick of seeing people look down on the military I cant stand it, its called service to something MORE THAN YOURSELF, granted a lot of you dont have a clue as to what that is all about... how dare someone actually believe in something bigger than themselves, right?.. I see a hell of a lot of people DAILY who are 40 year old KIDS... have never grown up, never will, the military does one hell of a lot of good to those who choose it, it would have done those 40 year old KIDS who are clueless to everything around them a lot of good, their only real conflict in life is between ignorance and apathy.. and so far ignorance appears to be winning hand down.

Chicken tracks are the excuse, not the reason.. it's a old gig, I heard it in the 60's and 70'd and I hear it again, cat is proof of that.
Hmm...I wonder why I can't neg you. It's been at least a month and that same box keeps popping up. These jagoffs can neg me but I can't neg them. Hmmm...could it be...??? Naahhhh

catmando
12-19-2007, 10:19 PM
BTW dumac if you don't like that ad in there take the advice I gave and don't listen to these guys. Next thing you know they'll convince you that the military loves you, that it has your best interests at heart. If you believe that read the Army/Navy/Air Force Times. That should convince you otherwise.

Nagalfar
12-19-2007, 10:23 PM
Hmm...I wonder why I can't neg you. It's been at least a month and that same box keeps popping up. These jagoffs can neg me but I can't neg them. Hmmm...could it be...??? Naahhhh

Hey cat would you like me to post your negs to me? lol.. here is your last one from lastt week... it goes like this..."Have some red with that whine"... opps, looks like someone is lying again.

US_Ranger
12-19-2007, 10:55 PM
Quite the incentive. I also heard they are trying to make those bonuses non taxable which I actually support.

I think it's fine for the ad to be in the school paper. If you don't want to join don't join. Some people might do it for the money , but they will earn that money, it's not a hand out.

That's good news. So far, I believe it's still 28% tax rate on bonuses so you end up getting screwed out of cash. Still, that's a pretty nice bonus to be throwing out there. They're using their available budget to say the least.....

US_Ranger
12-19-2007, 10:58 PM
Sad, but very true.

This is how I see the ad thing: If they're paying for the ad then there's no problem. Ton's of people put ads in school papers. If, however, they are forcing them to print it, which I doubt that they are, then there's a problem. If the paper's advertising coordinator or chair, or whatever decided that they didn't want to run the ad, and the editor, or whoever it might be, agreed and didn't run the ad, then I don't see a problem. You should be able to turn down ads to something you oppose.

My problem with the military and schools is that the schools have no choice as far as recruiting is concerned. If you take federal funding, you are required by strings attached to the funding to allow recruiting on your campus. That's ****ty in my opinion.

Oh I see. So you want free money without letting the government on campus? That's completely wrong and stupid in my opinion. Recruiting would basically be banned in California because we all know hippies and yuppies are good at making loud noises and causing problems when they don't agree with something.

Lol, taking the money and telling the government to **** off. How noble. It's called private schools....look into it.

US_Ranger
12-19-2007, 10:59 PM
Get a bunch of your like-minded friends together and request a meeting with your Superintendent. Tell him you think it's wrong for the Army to have that ad in there.

Cry me a ****ing river.

Nagalfar
12-20-2007, 03:44 PM
BTW dumac if you don't like that ad in there take the advice I gave and don't listen to these guys. Next thing you know they'll convince you that the military loves you, that it has your best interests at heart. If you believe that read the Army/Navy/Air Force Times. That should convince you otherwise.

Are we using "touchy feely, I deeply care for you" symbolic gestures to get others to fall in political line with you Cat? lmao.. Cat, your depth at times is only equaled by the amount water running down the gutter.

catmando
12-20-2007, 04:17 PM
Cry me a ****ing river.
Boy what a snappy comeback. :rolleyes:

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 04:20 PM
They cant, they can only recruit WITH parents permission when under 18... and ALL of my sons were enlisted into the Corps by age 17, 2 still serving, and 1 has done his time... and what is the matter with the military most of you act like it's worthless.. you will learn more about the world, life, and the real value of things while in the military, not to mention there are one hell of a lot of good jobs there that people would NEVER have a chance at doing outside the military, let alone the training that is available... I have NEVER been sorry, nor are none of my my sons, and the 2 serving are in the sandbox, and HAVE BEEN MORE THAN ONCE.. what the hell have most of you done to make the world a better place, not all, but most..

I get so damn sick of seeing people look down on the military I cant stand it, its called service to something MORE THAN YOURSELF, granted a lot of you dont have a clue as to what that is all about... how dare someone actually believe in something bigger than themselves, right?.. I see a hell of a lot of people DAILY who are 40 year old KIDS... have never grown up, never will, the military does one hell of a lot of good to those who choose it, it would have done those 40 year old KIDS who are clueless to everything around them a lot of good, their only real conflict in life is between ignorance and apathy.. and so far ignorance appears to be winning hand down.


Gotta agree here.

dumac
12-20-2007, 04:22 PM
not many people go to the army in my hs cause i live in a rich mainly white town.

catmando
12-20-2007, 04:24 PM
Are we using "touchy feely, I deeply care for you" symbolic gestures to get others to fall in political line with you Cat? lmao.. Cat, your depth at times is only equaled by the amount water running down the gutter.
1. My advice to dumac was not kinesthetic; it was one of ACTION.

2. I didn't think conservative Rethugs like yourself dealt in that sort of childish pyschobabble. Guess I was wrong.

catmando
12-20-2007, 04:25 PM
not many people go to the army in my hs cause i live in a rich mainly white town.
That's why we need a draft.

dumac
12-20-2007, 04:25 PM
i don't mind the ad in the paper it will go largely unnoticed. one reason the newspaper is gonna do is is because they are so starved for attention. i'm not really part of the school newspaper i just said i'd edit some of their pitiful articles.

Callaar21
12-20-2007, 04:30 PM
That's why we need a draft.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

So you rather deny the paper the ad , and possible outcome of those who will willingly go only to replace it with forced entry?

Ya real logic here.

I doubt we need a draft anyways against such a small country. Why can't we just find other ways of powering our cars and watch those oil lottery countries fade away?

run213
12-20-2007, 04:56 PM
I'd Love to see Al Queda set up shop in Berkley or San Fran. Then we'd see how much the lefty elites hate our military.

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 04:58 PM
That's why we need a draft.

WTF???? Why do we need a draft???
Man, there's waaaaaaay too much estrogen in some of you.

catmando
12-20-2007, 05:02 PM
I'd Love to see Al Queda set up shop in Berkley or San Fran. Then we'd see how much the lefty elites hate our military.
It's the righty idiots that hate our troops because they want them to stay in the middle of a civil war as occupiers getting their heads blown for bu$h's war of vengeance and oil.

goody1
12-20-2007, 05:18 PM
It's the righty idiots that hate our troops because they want them to stay in the middle of a civil war as occupiers getting their heads blown for bu$h's war of vengeance and oil.

Yet the lefties want to cut funding to the troops. Yeah they must love the troops

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 05:19 PM
It's the righty idiots that hate our troops because they want them to stay in the middle of a civil war as occupiers getting their heads blown for bu$h's war of vengeance and oil.

WTF??? What are the Democratic Congress doing about it??? Oh yeah, I remember, they're giving our so-called Righty president more money for the war.

goody1
12-20-2007, 05:23 PM
WTF??? What are the Democratic Congress doing about it??? Oh yeah, I remember, they're giving our so-called Righty president more money for the war.

This can't be true. The lefties said once they gained control of the congress all of our probelms would be fixed. They said the troops would be home in a matter of months.

Kanji4488
12-20-2007, 05:24 PM
They cant, they can only recruit WITH parents permission when under 18... and ALL of my sons were enlisted into the Corps by age 17, 2 still serving, and 1 has done his time... and what is the matter with the military most of you act like it's worthless.. you will learn more about the world, life, and the real value of things while in the military, not to mention there are one hell of a lot of good jobs there that people would NEVER have a chance at doing outside the military, let alone the training that is available... I have NEVER been sorry, nor are none of my my sons, and the 2 serving are in the sandbox, and HAVE BEEN MORE THAN ONCE.. what the hell have most of you done to make the world a better place, not all, but most..

I get so damn sick of seeing people look down on the military I cant stand it, its called service to something MORE THAN YOURSELF, granted a lot of you dont have a clue as to what that is all about... how dare someone actually believe in something bigger than themselves, right?.. I see a hell of a lot of people DAILY who are 40 year old KIDS... have never grown up, never will, the military does one hell of a lot of good to those who choose it, it would have done those 40 year old KIDS who are clueless to everything around them a lot of good, their only real conflict in life is between ignorance and apathy.. and so far ignorance appears to be winning hand down.

Chicken tracks are the excuse, not the reason.. it's a old gig, I heard it in the 60's and 70'd and I hear it again, cat is proof of that.

you heard it in the 60's and 70's? yea vietnam improved the hell out of our world.


I'd Love to see Al Queda set up shop in Berkley or San Fran. Then we'd see how much the lefty elites hate our military.

wtf

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 05:29 PM
This can't be true. The lefties said once they gained control of the congress all of our probelms would be fixed. They said the troops would be home in a matter of months.

And people were gullible enough to buy into it. Just like everyone think's that there's going to be a difference when Hillary or Obama become's president.

You want to know what reform mean's???? It mean's your people out, and my people in. If either one of them is elected, we're still going to be in Iraq. For years, and years.

goody1
12-20-2007, 05:39 PM
And people were gullible enough to buy into it. Just like everyone think's that there's going to be a difference when Hillary or Obama become's president.

You want to know what reform mean's???? It mean's your people out, and my people in. If either one of them is elected, we're still going to be in Iraq. For years, and years.

Reps
Both Hilliary and Obama have already said that they would probably have to keep the troops over there for at least another 5 years. This goes against everything they said at the beginning of this year. They said they would bring them home ASAP.

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 05:45 PM
Reps
Both Hilliary and Obama have already said that they would probably have to keep the troops over there for at least another 5 years. This goes against everything they said at the beginning of this year. They said they would bring them home ASAP.

Hilliray would probably make a promise for Universal Healthcare without raising taxes, and people would fall for it.

run213
12-20-2007, 05:49 PM
And Obama said he'd go into Pakistan.

basement iron
12-20-2007, 05:50 PM
More children are needed for our next unresolvable global conflict.

catmando
12-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me?

So you rather deny the paper the ad , and possible outcome of those who will willingly go only to replace it with forced entry?

Ya real logic here.

I doubt we need a draft anyways against such a small country. Why can't we just find other ways of powering our cars and watch those oil lottery countries fade away?
Have you joined? If not, why not? Do you have a boil on your butt like Rush Douchebag had when he avoided going to Vietnam?

catmando
12-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Yet the lefties want to cut funding to the troops. Yeah they must love the troops
The ones in Congress gave bu$h open funding so they want the troops to continue dying in the Occupation. Dennis Kucinch OTOH said he would bring them ALL home. That's why I support him.

catmando
12-20-2007, 07:19 PM
Hilliray would probably make a promise for Universal Healthcare without raising taxes, and people would fall for it.
What's a "Hilliray"?

thepointman
12-20-2007, 07:22 PM
Who cares, let them advertise. Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 07:29 PM
The ones in Congress gave bu$h open funding so they want the troops to continue dying in the Occupation. Dennis Kucinch OTOH said he would bring them ALL home. That's why I support him.

Right, he said it. And I truly doubt that if he ever became president, that he would mean it.

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 07:30 PM
Who cares, let them advertise. Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.

Right, I mean what honor is there in joining the military???
So explain to me, why nobody with half a brain would consider the military??

thepointman
12-20-2007, 07:33 PM
Right, I mean what honor is there in joining the military???
So explain to me, why nobody with half a brain would consider the military??
I really have to explain it? **** pay for a dangerous job that merely results in the killing innocent civilians in a country where you aren't wanted to make money for a group of wealthy elite who don't care about you.

Didn't really think it was that confusing :confused:

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 07:36 PM
I really have to explain it? **** pay for a dangerous job that merely results in the killing innocent civilians in a country where you aren't wanted to make money for a group of wealthy elite who don't care about you.

Didn't really think it was that confusing :confused:

Wow, you must be one of those College elitists, who's probably for Socialism. Who say's its **** pay??? Free Healthcare, Free Dental, Free Housing, etc. 30 days of paid vacation, and what make's you think that you'll be killing innocent civilians???

And some countries appreciate the military. From what I hear, the girls in S. Korea love US troops.

goody1
12-20-2007, 07:44 PM
Who cares, let them advertise. Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.

You're an idiot.
There are many people in the military much smarter than you I'm sure.
Some of these so called half brains are in charge of multi-million dollar equipment.
BTW care to point out what you do for a living? I'm sure everyone in you field of expertise is a genius

thepointman
12-20-2007, 07:44 PM
Wow, you must be one of those College elitists, who's probably for Socialism. Who say's its **** pay??? Free Healthcare, Free Dental, Free Housing, etc. 30 days of paid vacation, and what make's you think that you'll be killing innocent civilians???

And some countries appreciate the military. From what I hear, the girls in S. Korea love US troops.

You do know most countries with military conscription are socialist, right?

Also, girls in South Korea like ANY foreigner, especially the ones with cash to spare.


You're an idiot.
There are many people in the military much smarter than you I'm sure.
Some of these so called half brains are in charge of multi-million dollar equipment.
BTW care to point out what you do for a living? I'm sure everyone in you field of expertise is a genius
Probably, yes, there are smarter people in the military than me. But none of them enlisted because of an ad in their high school paper, nor are they fighting on the front line in Iraq. Most likely, they aren't even in combat related positions. Also, being in charges of multi-million equipment doesn't make you smart.

I'm a graduate student in physics at Columbia. I don't know if I'd say everybody in my field is a genius. You decide.

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 07:46 PM
Who cares, let them advertise. Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.

You almost got negged, but since I've never done it, I don't intend to start. You'll be in the red soon enough.

Traditionally, the best and brightest of a society become military officers. It has not been so only recently and only in America. Vietnam likely had a huge role in how our society has changed, and we are still living in its shadow. Don't confuse our current temporary situation with a permanent institution.

A great deal of officers and aspiring officers (such as myself) are graduate students and hold advanced degrees. Even senior enlisted men tend to have at least a bachelor's.

You are using pop culture myths to justify a position that you take strictly out of ignorance. It would be wise to understand that if the military did not harbor a large share of great minds, we would not be the world hegemon.

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 07:48 PM
You do know most countries with military conscription are socialist, right?

Also, girls in South Korea like ANY foreigner, especially the ones with cash to spare.

LOL!!!!! Right buddy, I'm so sure that the women of S. Korea are all whores, I mean its such a poor country right??? Maybe you need to look at S. Korea's statistics.

goody1
12-20-2007, 07:49 PM
You almost got negged, but since I've never done it, I don't intend to start. You'll be in the red soon enough.

Traditionally, the best and brightest of a society become military officers. It has not been so only recently and only in America. Vietnam likely had a huge role in how our society has changed, and we are still living in its shadow. Don't confuse our current temporary situation with a permanent institution.

A great deal of officers and aspiring officers (such as myself) are graduate students and hold advanced degrees. Even senior enlisted men tend to have at least a bachelor's.

You are using pop culture myths to justify a position that you take strictly out of ignorance. It would be wise to understand that if the military did not harbor a large share of great minds, we would not be the world hegemon.
Well said.
Reps

Dave22reborn
12-20-2007, 07:51 PM
You do know most countries with military conscription are socialist, right?

Also, girls in South Korea like ANY foreigner, especially the ones with cash to spare.


Probably, yes, there are smarter people in the military than me. But none of them enlisted because of an ad in their high school paper, nor are they fighting on the front line in Iraq. Most likely, they aren't even in combat related positions. Also, being in charges of multi-million equipment doesn't make you smart.

I'm a graduate student in physics at Columbia. I don't know if I'd say everybody in my field is a genius. You decide.

And mommy and daddy is probably paying your way. Wait a minute, this is bodybuilding.com where everyone can bench over 300 lbs, can satisfy a woman everytime, and have ton's of cash.

So next you're probably going to tell us that you have a full scholarship.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 07:51 PM
You almost got negged, but since I've never done it, I don't intend to start. You'll be in the red soon enough.

Traditionally, the best and brightest of a society become military officers. It has not been so only recently and only in America. Vietnam likely had a huge role in how our society has changed, and we are still living in its shadow. Don't confuse our current temporary situation with a permanent institution.

A great deal of officers and aspiring officers (such as myself) are graduate students and hold advanced degrees. Even senior enlisted men tend to have at least a bachelor's.

You are using pop culture myths to justify a position that you take strictly out of ignorance. It would be wise to understand that if the military did not harbor a large share of great minds, we would not be the world hegemon.

Heh. A military can't function with independent thinkers. It just wouldn't work. Most of the military isn't made up of the rare few that are, however, so it's pointless trying to make the rule with the exception. I know quite a few people in the military. Good guys (and girls), yes. Intelligent? Not so much.


LOL!!!!! Right buddy, I'm so sure that the women of S. Korea are all whores, I mean its such a poor country right??? Maybe you need to look at S. Korea's statistics.
The girls that hang out around army bases aren't exactly representative of the average South Korean.


And mommy and daddy is probably paying your way. Wait a minute, this is bodybuilding.com where everyone can bench over 300 lbs, can satisfy a woman everytime, and have ton's of cash.

So next you're probably going to tell us that you have a full scholarship.
Actually, a TA fellowship. It's pretty much standard with any graduate student, however.

nutsy54
12-20-2007, 08:04 PM
Who cares, let them advertise. Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.Thanks for the uninformed insult. Believe it or not, the military isn't some loser-filled dead-end job.

I'm a graduate student in physics at Columbia. I don't know if I'd say everybody in my field is a genius. You decide.And you somehow believe that makes you an expert on topics you obviously have no real knowledge of? Yeah, I'm incredibly impressed with your credentials to lecture me on the career I chose. I guess with all us idiots on board, it's a wonder that a nuclear submarine made it out to sea and back on my last deployment.

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Heh. A military can't function with independent thinkers. It just wouldn't work. Most of the military isn't made up of the rare few that are, however, so it's pointless trying to make the rule with the exception. I know quite a few people in the military. Good guys (and girls), yes. Intelligent? Not so much.


A modern military only functions with independent thinkers. You would know that if you were in a service. In fact, you would know that without service if you were a student of military history.

Every soldier, down to the lowliest private, has to innovate and adapt to any course of action he deems necessary. This has been the case since the end of WWI. Since the focus of warfare has shifted from divisional level down to regimental and company level, units had a large amount of freedom to adapt as they saw fit. Nowadays (as in Iraq), platoons operate nearly independently. Every fire team (group of ~4 people) has their own set of responsibilities and can execute as they see fit.

Is every private brilliant? Of course not, but he's not any dumber than any other 18 year old. If he is below average, he'll be living up to his potential (the best he can do), which is a whole lot better than being a drain on society.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Thanks for the uninformed insult. Believe it or not, the military isn't some loser-filled dead-end job.

I'm curious as to why then the military is constantly resorting to lowering their standards of entry? Is it to accommodate all those less fortunate people who just wouldn't have a chance against the rush of quality candidates they're getting?


Thanks for the uninformed insult. Believe it or not, the military isn't some loser-filled dead-end job.
And you somehow believe that makes you an expert on topics you obviously have no real knowledge of? Yeah, I'm incredibly impressed with your credentials to lecture me on the career I chose.
Not an expert, no, but you don't need to have a degree in something to have an opinion of it.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 08:13 PM
A modern military only functions with independent thinkers. You would know that if you were in a service. In fact, you would know that without service if you were a student of military history.

Every soldier, down to the lowliest private, has to innovate and adapt to any course of action he deems necessary. This has been the case since the end of WWI. Since the focus of warfare has shifted from divisional level down to regimental and company level, units had a large amount of freedom to adapt as they saw fit. Nowadays (as in Iraq), platoons operate nearly independently. Every fire team (group of ~4 people) has their own set of responsibilities and can execute as they see fit.

Is every private brilliant? Of course not, but he's not any dumber than any other 18 year old. If he is below average, he'll be living up to his potential (the best he can do), which is a whole lot better than being a drain on society.
"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns" -- Henry Kissinger

You think it's any different today? I doubt it, and yet you continue to obey the every order of your superiors. Doesn't sound intelligent to me. But hey, I'm no Secretary of State, so *shrug*

nutsy54
12-20-2007, 08:15 PM
Get a bunch of your like-minded friends together and request a meeting with your Superintendent. Tell him you think it's wrong for the Army to have that ad in there.Great, so now you're supporting Censorship of employers you don't like? Who else is on that list?

goody1
12-20-2007, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE=thepointman;108822831]I'm curious as to why then the military is constantly resorting to lowering their standards of entry? Is it to accommodate all those less fortunate people who just wouldn't have a chance against the rush of quality candidates they're getting?
[QUOTE]
People can be trained.
When I was in the Navy the school I went to was 6 months long. However it was equivilent of a AS degree(usually a 2 year degree) I proved this myself after I got out I graduated with a AS degree in Electronic Engineering in 4 months. I got paid to tutor the rest of the 2 years.
I'm an idiot alright

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 08:44 PM
I'm curious as to why then the military is constantly resorting to lowering their standards of entry? Is it to accommodate all those less fortunate people who just wouldn't have a chance against the rush of quality candidates they're getting?


They do in every war. The needs are greater than the resources available. The original Iraq plan (made by competent generals, not by incompetent Rumsfeld) called for an occupation force of 400,000. We're struggling to put half that many on the ground. If a business suddenly expanded and needed double the amount of employees it currently had, it would accept many of the people that got rejected the first time around.


"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns" -- Henry Kissinger

You think it's any different today? I doubt it, and yet you continue to obey the every order of your superiors. Doesn't sound intelligent to me. But hey, I'm no Secretary of State, so *shrug*

One man's opinion is the absolute truth? Furthermore, that quote has no source. It may be a myth brought on by the pain of Vietnam.

Your friends must be in the 14th century British Army, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Your ideas are not applicable to the 21st century American all volunteer military.

nutsy54
12-20-2007, 08:48 PM
"Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns" -- Henry KissingerMaybe Kissinger isn't the best source to use for your argument. . .

"The Indians are bastards," Mr Kissinger said shortly before the India-Pakistan war of 1971, it was revealed this week.

Mr Kissinger also called former Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi a "bitch" during the conversation.


As human rights campaigners demonstrated outside the Royal Albert Hall in London, the target of their protest, Henry Kissinger, today admitted inside it was possible that "mistakes were made" by the US administrations he served in.
. . .
"No one can say that he served in an administration that did not make mistakes," Mr Kissinger told the annual Institute of Directors conference.http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,689870,00.html


You've been given countless examples and real-life descriptions from people on this board who have actually "Been there, Done that", and showed that military service can be extremely beneficial and rewarding. Yet you can only counter those facts with your own opinion, a perception of enlistment requirements, and a 30 year old quote.

As a graduate student in physics, tell me, which is more important: Hands-on experience and facts, or Opinion based on second-hand information?

PS: As a mindless Enlisted drone, I only have an Associates in Engineering, plus a car that will be paid off next month, a $300k townhome, an essentially guaranteed retirement check in three years, and very likely prospects for a six-figure salary when I do enter the civilian sector. Not exactly someone with "half a brain" and "no life goals" you described in your earlier post.

Don't confuse political policies & decisions you may disagree with with the people who've sworn their lives to protecting this country - something we do regardless of who's sitting in the Oval Office or Congress.

goody1
12-20-2007, 08:51 PM
Maybe Kissinger isn't the best source to use for your argument. . .


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,689870,00.html


PS: It seems I only have an Associates in Engineering, plus a car that will be paid off next month, live in a $300k townhome, an essentially guaranteed retirement check in three years, and very likely prospects for a six-figure salary when I do enter the civilian sector. Not exactly someone with "half a brain" and "no life goals" you described in your earlier post.

I'm also a dumb military man living in a half a million dollar house with 2 cars and 2 motorcycles pand off and my wife and I combined gross over $180K. I'm just a big dumb military man though.
Reps for serving as I did

thepointman
12-20-2007, 08:55 PM
They do in every war. The needs are greater than the resources available. The original Iraq plan (made by competent generals, not by incompetent Rumsfeld) called for an occupation force of 400,000. We're struggling to put half that many on the ground. If a business suddenly expanded and needed double the amount of employees it currently had, it would accept many of the people that got rejected the first time around.

One man's opinion is the absolute truth? Furthermore, that quote has no source. It may be a myth brought on by the pain of Vietnam.

Your friends must be in the 14th century British Army, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Your ideas are not applicable to the 21st century American all volunteer military.
The point of the Kissinger quote isn't that he knows every person in the military, but his view is pretty much how leaders view the members of the military. Why any person would join knowing that they're basically meant to be used as expendable human shields for pure political pandering is beyond me.


Maybe Kissinger isn't the best source to use for your argument. . .


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,689870,00.html


You've been given countless examples and real-life descriptions from people on this board who have actually "Been there, Done that", and showed that military service can be extremely beneficial and rewarding. Yet you can only counter those facts with your own opinion, a perception of enlistment requirements, and a 30 year old quote.

As a graduate student in physics, tell me, which is more important: Hands-on experience and facts, or Opinion based on second-hand information?

PS: As a mindless Enlisted drone, I only have an Associates in Engineering, plus a car that will be paid off next month, a $300k townhome, an essentially guaranteed retirement check in three years, and very likely prospects for a six-figure salary when I do enter the civilian sector. Not exactly someone with "half a brain" and "no life goals" you described in your earlier post.

Don't confuse political policies & decision you may disagree with with the people who've sworn their lives to protecting this country - regardless of who's sitting in the Oval Office or Congress.

I don't see what any of that has to do with my point. I never said people in the military can't be successful and happy. Paris Hilton is a billionaire and I'm quite sure she's satisfied with her life but she's probably as dumb as a rock.

goody1
12-20-2007, 08:59 PM
The point of the Kissinger quote isn't that he knows every person in the military, but his view is pretty much how leaders view the members of the military. Why any person would join knowing that they're basically meant to be used as expendable human shields for pure political pandering is beyond me.



I don't see what any of that has to do with my point. I never said people in the military can't be successful and happy. Paris Hilton is a billionaire and I'm quite sure she's satisfied with her life but she's probably as dumb as a rock.

Bad example.
Paris hilton was born into money.
I was not

dumac
12-20-2007, 08:59 PM
This can't be true. The lefties said once they gained control of the congress all of our probelms would be fixed. They said the troops would be home in a matter of months.

yea wtf happened with that. it is the sole reason why they got elected. people complain bush lies to us but so does congress i guess everyone does. thats why we need ron paul a guy we can trust.

goody1
12-20-2007, 09:01 PM
yea wtf happened with that. it is the sole reason why they got elected. people complain bush lies to us but so does congress i guess everyone does. thats why we need ron paul a guy we can trust.

I'm with ya.
Most of the democrats also voted to invade Iraq as well but you don't hear them talking about it.

dumac
12-20-2007, 09:03 PM
its to bad america can't crack down on this and impeach people who don't keep their word.

nutsy54
12-20-2007, 09:05 PM
Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.

I really have to explain it? **** pay for a dangerous job that merely results in the killing innocent civilians in a country where you aren't wanted to make money for a group of wealthy elite who don't care about you.
Didn't really think it was that confusing :confused:

I doubt it, and yet you continue to obey the every order of your superiors. Doesn't sound intelligent to me. But hey, I'm no Secretary of State, so *shrug*


I don't see what any of that has to do with my point. I never said people in the military can't be successful and happy.Sorry, I somehow took all those previous posts as an insult. Silly me.

All I did was prove that those of us in the military (a) don't earn "**** pay", (b) don't have "half a brain", (c) are "intelligent", (d) can have very successful, career-oriented "life goals", etc. Apparently all those posted insults had nothing to do with the actual point you're trying to make?

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 09:09 PM
The point of the Kissinger quote isn't that he knows every person in the military, but his view is pretty much how leaders view the members of the military. Why any person would join knowing that they're basically meant to be used as expendable human shields for pure political pandering is beyond me.


No, Kissinger is not the epitome of a leader. Until a little while ago, it was a serious disadvantage to have not served in the military when applying for political office. Clinton got tons of **** for dodging Vietnam. Everyone who has served is always sure to mention it during their campaign. Why? It's a sign of selfless duty and obligation to one's country. Certainly they don't do it so voters think they're stupid.

In the last 70 years, the only presidents that were not in the military were Clinton and FDR (because he was crippled). Bush Jr. escaped combat by joining the TX Air National Guard, but it technically counts as service.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 09:12 PM
Sorry, I somehow took all those previous posts as an insult. Silly me.

All I did was prove that those of us in the military (a) don't earn "**** pay", (b) don't have "half a brain", (c) are "intelligent", (d) can have very successful, career-oriented "life goals", etc.
Go check the military pay tables. Something like $1000/month for a fresh recruit, and it's hardly a 40 hour a week job. You can make more working at McDonalds. The pay doesn't exactly skyrocket from there. College graduates undoubtedly make much more than their equivalent military colleagues.

As for life-goals, I don't think too many people plan on a career in the military except for the West Point types. Most are "Ooh, I get a gun and a $5k bonus! Awesome! I'll join up" and then complain that they actually have to go to war. Because they didn't understand what they were signing up for (no surprise that Ron Paul is one of the troops' favorite candidates)


No, Kissinger is not the epitome of a leader. Until a little while ago, it was a serious disadvantage to have not served in the military when applying for political office. Clinton got tons of **** for dodging Vietnam. Everyone who has served is always sure to mention it during their campaign. Why? It's a sign of selfless duty and obligation to one's country. Certainly they don't do it so voters think they're stupid.

In the last 70 years, the only presidents that were not in the military were Clinton and FDR (because he was crippled). Bush Jr. escaped combat by joining the TX Air National Guard, but it technically counts as service.
Politicians also promote their Christianity, which is also stupid, because it panders to the public, many of whom aren't particularly bright. Most Americans are flag waving jingoists too, so this doesn't prove much either.

Callaar21
12-20-2007, 09:14 PM
Have you joined? If not, why not? Do you have a boil on your butt like Rush Douchebag had when he avoided going to Vietnam?

I don't see how you got this response from what I typed. No I never did join but i'm thankful there are those who would willingly join.

Comparing rush and avoidance of vietnam with the military running an ad in a school paper is quite the stretch.

If I was drafted I would go , but I doubt it will come to that. I'm registered for the draft like all men have to do at 18.

goody1
12-20-2007, 09:15 PM
Go check the military pay tables. Something like $1000/month for a fresh recruit, and it's hardly a 40 hour a week job. You can make more working at McDonalds. The pay doesn't exactly skyrocket from there. College graduates undoubtedly make much more than their equivalent military colleagues.

)
Where's the Bull**** flag when you need to raise it. That's $1000 cleared. Food, housing , medical, dental all paid for. Lets take those payments out of your salary and see what you're left with

thepointman
12-20-2007, 09:18 PM
Where's the Bull**** flag when you need to raise it. That's $1000 cleared. Food, housing , medical, dental all paid for. Lets take those payments out of your salary and see what you're left with

a) Any decent job will have the latter two
b) Like I said, the military is not 9-5. It's probably closer to a 100 hr/week job
c) You have to live on a base and eat mess food. Awesome.

Adjusting for all that, the college grad still comes out far ahead.

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 09:28 PM
Politicians also promote their Christianity, which is also stupid, because it panders to the public, many of whom aren't particularly bright. Most Americans are flag waving jingoists too, so this doesn't prove much either.

That may be, but it doesn't change the fact that they all served honorably way before they had any idea they would be president.


a) Any decent job will have the latter two
b) Like I said, the military is not 9-5. It's probably closer to a 100 hr/week job
c) You have to live on a base and eat mess food. Awesome.

Adjusting for all that, the college grad still comes out far ahead.

1. "Any decent job" doesn't have full medical and dental for you and your entire family.

2. The military day is about 8 hours like any other job. There are exceptions, of course, but a standard day on base is a regular day's work.

3. You can live wherever you want. You also receive a housing allowance if you choose to live off base.

Which military are you talking about. You "have to live on base and eat mess food"? You're talking about something that doesn't exist in the modern world.

Edit: Also- college is free if you do ROTC. College is partially paid for if you enlist and accept the GI Bill. You get paid to go to college if you are a field grade officer or senior enlisted man.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 09:40 PM
Who cares, let them advertise. Nobody with half a brain considers the military anyway. If someone with no life goals sees the ad and is influenced enough to want to join, good for him.

Dumbest thing I've read all day. Yeah, my team leader was pretty dumb. He must have faked his way through the PHD program for his biology work. I guess my squad leader was also an idiot for getting a masters in psychology. ****, even my lowly enlisted friend had a BA in criminal justice. Yep.....all with half a brain. We're all idiots.

Thanks for making an ass of yourself.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 09:43 PM
You do know most countries with military conscription are socialist, right?

Also, girls in South Korea like ANY foreigner, especially the ones with cash to spare.


Probably, yes, there are smarter people in the military than me. But none of them enlisted because of an ad in their high school paper, nor are they fighting on the front line in Iraq. Most likely, they aren't even in combat related positions. Also, being in charges of multi-million equipment doesn't make you smart.

I'm a graduate student in physics at Columbia. I don't know if I'd say everybody in my field is a genius. You decide.

Graduate student of physics eh?

Well, you know, I'm majoring in kinesiology. Can I go ahead and make a sweeping generalization about the type of people who work in your field? After all, I would know A LOT about it since I've never even taken physics before. You obviously know a lot about the military considering you're a physics major.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 09:48 PM
I'm curious as to why then the military is constantly resorting to lowering their standards of entry? Is it to accommodate all those less fortunate people who just wouldn't have a chance against the rush of quality candidates they're getting?


Not an expert, no, but you don't need to have a degree in something to have an opinion of it.

Maybe the military is lowering its standards because of bad influences from people like you who convince high school aged kids that they're retarded if they choose military service over the wonderful world of college. For some reason, it's cool these days to say "**** the military, I wouldn't join" and yet somehow think going to college, getting piss drunk, nailing fat chicks, and getting a 2.5 is somehow enlightening.......you're right.....all those stupid people in the military who can't sleep in for 6 AM rollcall and cry home to mommy when the teachers pile on too much work.


You're right, you don't have to have a degree to have an opinion on something. However, you have ZERO idea what you're talking about yet you continue to argue with people who actually know what they're talking about. You insult many people here who are smart and have served or are currently serving, yet you're so dense in your head, you fail to even realize it. What a tool.....

thepointman
12-20-2007, 09:48 PM
That may be, but it doesn't change the fact that they all served honorably way before they had any idea they would be president.



1. "Any decent job" doesn't have full medical and dental for you and your entire family.

2. The military day is about 8 hours like any other job. There are exceptions, of course, but a standard day on base is a regular day's work.

3. You can live wherever you want. You also receive a housing allowance if you choose to live off base.

Which military are you talking about. You "have to live on base and eat mess food"? You're talking about something that doesn't exist in the modern world.

Edit: Also- college is free if you do ROTC. College is partially paid for if you enlist and accept the GI Bill. You get paid to go to college if you are a field grade officer or senior enlisted man.
All of this is just nitpicking. I don't think anyone can argue $12k/year and some free food and housing is better than $60k + benefits at a good company. Plus, you don't get shot at while living in Iraq with the latter.


Dumbest thing I've read all day. Yeah, my team leader was pretty dumb. He must have faked his way through the PHD program for his biology work. I guess my squad leader was also an idiot for getting a masters in psychology. ****, even my lowly enlisted friend had a BA in criminal justice. Yep.....all with half a brain. We're all idiots.

Thanks for making an ass of yourself.
Obviously you won't agree, being in the military, but I don't expect you to. Though if you looked at it objectively you'd see I'm right.


Graduate student of physics eh?

Well, you know, I'm majoring in kinesiology. Can I go ahead and make a sweeping generalization about the type of people who work in your field? After all, I would know A LOT about it since I've never even taken physics before. You obviously know a lot about the military considering you're a physics major.
About physics? No, you probably couldn't say anything. Just like I don't make any statements about military tactics or strategies. However, it's easy to do basic research about a group of people and form an opinion based on demographics and statistics. Also, I think considering your psychological/emotional investment in my being wrong, you're not exactly an unbiased litmus test for this, are you (same for anybody in the military)?

For what it's worth, I'd wager a pretty penny that the average physics student would score higher on any standardized test you can think of than the average military recruit.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Go check the military pay tables. Something like $1000/month for a fresh recruit, and it's hardly a 40 hour a week job. You can make more working at McDonalds. The pay doesn't exactly skyrocket from there. College graduates undoubtedly make much more than their equivalent military colleagues.

As for life-goals, I don't think too many people plan on a career in the military except for the West Point types. Most are "Ooh, I get a gun and a $5k bonus! Awesome! I'll join up" and then complain that they actually have to go to war. Because they didn't understand what they were signing up for (no surprise that Ron Paul is one of the troops' favorite candidates)


Politicians also promote their Christianity, which is also stupid, because it panders to the public, many of whom aren't particularly bright. Most Americans are flag waving jingoists too, so this doesn't prove much either.


Lol, so people who don't make a lot of money are stupid?

As for college graduates making more, are you figuring in college loans? All my roommates have 20-30k in school loans. I do not since I have GI Bill, which I got for being a retard and joining the army. Yeah, it sucks having college paid for and getting extra money on top of that for rent and bills. **** I'm stupid.

Also, don't correlate Ron Paul with your ****ed up perception on the military. The troops like Ron Paul because Ron Paul is a CONSTITUTIONALIST. When you join the military (you wouldn't know this) you swear to protect the constitution. Military personnel are loyal and many probably want a leader who reflects their views on the constitution. It has nothing to do with not knowing what they signed up for. I swear, every post I read from you, the dumber I think you are.

GTFO.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 09:55 PM
a) Any decent job will have the latter two
b) Like I said, the military is not 9-5. It's probably closer to a 100 hr/week job
c) You have to live on a base and eat mess food. Awesome.

Adjusting for all that, the college grad still comes out far ahead.

What the **** are you talking about?

a) no, any decent job will not have the latter two
b) There are hundreds of jobs in the military that are indeed 9-5, and that can give you training for the civilian world...hello, medical field?
c) You don't have to live on base and eat mess food. You have no clue what you're talking about. It's called BAH and BAS.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 09:55 PM
Lol, so people who don't make a lot of money are stupid?

As for college graduates making more, are you figuring in college loans? All my roommates have 20-30k in school loans. I do not since I have GI Bill, which I got for being a retard and joining the army. Yeah, it sucks having college paid for and getting extra money on top of that for rent and bills. **** I'm stupid.

Also, don't correlate Ron Paul with your ****ed up perception on the military. The troops like Ron Paul because Ron Paul is a CONSTITUTIONALIST. When you join the military (you wouldn't know this) you swear to protect the constitution. Military personnel are loyal and many probably want a leader who reflects their views on the constitution. It has nothing to do with not knowing what they signed up for. I swear, every post I read from you, the dumber I think you are.

GTFO.

Which makes it all the more curious that they sign up when a guy like Bush is in office, don't you think? Or is it that they do not fully understand the politics of the situation they are involving themselves in?

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 09:59 PM
All of this is just nitpicking. I don't think anyone can argue $12k/year and some free food and housing is better than $60k + benefits at a good company. Plus, you don't get shot at while living in Iraq with the latter.


Obviously you won't agree, being in the military, but I don't expect you to. Though if you looked at it objectively you'd see I'm right.


About physics? No, you probably couldn't say anything. Just like I don't make any statements about military tactics or strategies. However, it's easy to do basic research about a group of people and form an opinion based on demographics and statistics. Also, I think considering your psychological/emotional investment in my being wrong, you're not exactly an unbiased litmus test for this, are you (same for anybody in the military)?

For what it's worth, I'd wager a pretty penny that the average physics student would score higher on any standardized test you can think of than the average military recruit.

And here we have our problem. You're basing intelligence on school testing. What a ****ing clown. It's a good thing you didn't major in anthropology or you would have failed out. Your cultural expectations of what intelligence is equal to is waaaay off.

I guarantee most physics students would score higher on standarized testing. You think a military private gives two ****s about standarized testing? Tell me though, what physics student could build basic animal traps, start a fire without matches, navigate through thick brush with a compass in the middle of the night, administer proper first aid including iv hookups on an injured person, hunt for his/her own food, etc etc etc

Hmmm, sounds like the physics student is a complete retard on that one. Good job though, it's nice to think (in your small brain) that a standarized test is the justification of intelligence. Keep digging yourself a hole.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 10:01 PM
And here we have our problem. You're basing intelligence on school testing. What a ****ing clown. It's a good thing you didn't major in anthropology or you would have failed out. Your cultural expectations of what intelligence is equal to is waaaay off.

I guarantee most physics students would score higher on standarized testing. You think a military private gives two ****s about standarized testing? Tell me though, what physics student could build basic animal traps, start a fire without matches, navigate through thick brush with a compass in the middle of the night, administer proper first aid including iv hookups on an injured person, hunt for his/her own food, etc etc etc

Hmmm, sounds like the physics student is a complete retard on that one. Good job though, it's nice to think (in your small brain) that a standarized test is the justification of intelligence. Keep digging yourself a hole.
Actually no, I don't think that, hence why I qualified my statement with "For what it's worth". Then again, can you explain to me what the ASVAB is? I'm sure they wouldn't do something like give more job options to those who score higher...

I don't think survival skills necessarily equate with intelligence. They're a skill, yes, but even cavemen had them.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 10:01 PM
Which makes it all the more curious that they sign up when a guy like Bush is in office, don't you think? Or is it that they do not fully understand the politics of the situation they are involving themselves in?

Life must be so simple for you. People ONLY join the military because they're too stupid for other work or because they've been duped by Bush? Who gives a **** about George Bush? Many people join the military because of the idea of selfless service. It sounds cliche but you need to read "300" Ignore the political aspects and just focus on the way the soldiers feel about each other. It will probably be waaaaay over your head though because such acts of selflessness must be barbaric and stupid in your eyes.

tpreitzel
12-20-2007, 10:04 PM
Guys -

Can you set aside your egos, please. Who gives a flip whether you have received a diploma or stripes from some government funded indoctrination center? Live your life and be content with it.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 10:07 PM
Actually no, I don't think that, hence why I qualified my statement with "For what it's worth". Then again, can you explain to me what the ASVAB is? I'm sure they wouldn't do something like give more job options to those who score higher...

I don't think survival skills necessarily equate with intelligence. They're a skill, yes, but even cavemen had them.

The higher you score on an ASVAB, the more job options you have. That keeps the people who aren't very smart (on paper) away from jobs that require pushing buttons and possibly ending civilization on this planet. The ASVAB is a basic test of english comprehension, algebra/geometry, basic mechanics (not auto mechanics), speed math, analytical skills, etc

It's funny you don't equate survival skills with intelligence. I bet, if you didn't have the big bad government giving you everything you need in life, you'd proabably feel pretty stupid when you had to beg to some redneck for food. Our brain size has been the same for quite some time (human beings) and the only thing that has changed is where the focus of our intelligence goes. Cavemen focused on survival because of Maslows Pyramid. We don't have to do that anymore because we get everything handed to us on a silver platter. You don't have to worry about harvesting grain or hunting food so you can put all your effort into physics. If you had to put effort into harvesting food or hunting, you wouldn't be dumber than you are now, you would have a different focus for your intelligence. Seriously bro, take an anthro class.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 10:12 PM
Life must be so simple for you. People ONLY join the military because they're too stupid for other work or because they've been duped by Bush? Who gives a **** about George Bush? Many people join the military because of the idea of selfless service. It sounds cliche but you need to read "300" Ignore the political aspects and just focus on the way the soldiers feel about each other. It will probably be waaaaay over your head though because such acts of selflessness must be barbaric and stupid in your eyes.
How can you be so loyal to people you've never met? Surely you don't go in with a special relationship towards other soldiers. I'm sure that happens after, but has no bearing on the reason for joining in the first place. If you want to selflessly serve, there are far better options that don't unnecessarily put you in harms way or have you take actions that border on war crimes, like in Iraq. Ever heard of the Peace Corps?

Anyway, I think you're idealizing the situation. Most recruits don't join for the reason you mentioned. In my school the top of the class that could go to college did. Then came those who could find jobs. Then came the people who didn't really know what they wanted to do but couldn't get into college or find jobs - most of the people that went into the military came from this section.

I know of one person, a good friend actually, who went in because his family had a history of serving (his dad, grandfather, etc). And he later told me he regretted not going to college first and doing ROTC. One, out of thousands of kids.


The higher you score on an ASVAB, the more job options you have. That keeps the people who aren't very smart (on paper) away from jobs that require pushing buttons and possibly ending civilization on this planet. The ASVAB is a basic test of english comprehension, algebra/geometry, basic mechanics (not auto mechanics), speed math, analytical skills, etc
Exactly. Not only that, but the ASVAB is ridiculously easy compared to any college entrance exam, and most recruits don't even come close to acing it.


It's funny you don't equate survival skills with intelligence. I bet, if you didn't have the big bad government giving you everything you need in life, you'd proabably feel pretty stupid when you had to beg to some redneck for food. Our brain size has been the same for quite some time (human beings) and the only thing that has changed is where the focus of our intelligence goes. Cavemen focused on survival because of Maslows Pyramid. We don't have to do that anymore because we get everything handed to us on a silver platter. You don't have to worry about harvesting grain or hunting food so you can put all your effort into physics. If you had to put effort into harvesting food or hunting, you wouldn't be dumber than you are now, you would have a different focus for your intelligence. Seriously bro, take an anthro class.
Like you said, humans and society have evolved beyond that stage. I don't need to learn how to survive, it's simply an unnecessary skill. However, I have little doubt that any reasonably intelligent person could handle it giving the training and experience. I do, however, not think that you could place most military men in a graduate program of reasonable difficulty and expect them to excel.

SupaDJDiesel
12-20-2007, 10:19 PM
Like you said, humans and society have evolved beyond that stage. I don't need to learn how to survive, it's simply an unnecessary skill. However, I have little doubt that any reasonably intelligent person could handle it giving the training and experience. I do, however, not think that you could place most military men in a graduate program of reasonable difficulty and expect them to excel.

But that is true of most people. It's not like it's just the majority of soldiers and sailors that can't do graduate work, it's the vast majority of all people. If everyone could do it, my graduate classes wouldn't have 9 people in them.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 10:22 PM
But that is true of most people. It's not like it's just the majority of soldiers and sailors that can't do graduate work, it's the vast majority of all people. If everyone could do it, my graduate classes wouldn't have 9 people in them.

I'm talking about performance relative to a random sampling of people with average intelligence. Obviously I'm not saying they should perform as well as people who naturally excel in that field.

US_Ranger
12-20-2007, 10:34 PM
How can you be so loyal to people you've never met? Surely you don't go in with a special relationship towards other soldiers. I'm sure that happens after, but has no bearing on the reason for joining in the first place. If you want to selflessly serve, there are far better options that don't unnecessarily put you in harms way or have you take actions that border on war crimes, like in Iraq. Ever heard of the Peace Corps?

Anyway, I think you're idealizing the situation. Most recruits don't join for the reason you mentioned. In my school the top of the class that could go to college did. Then came those who could find jobs. Then came the people who didn't really know what they wanted to do but couldn't get into college or find jobs - most of the people that went into the military came from this section.

I know of one person, a good friend actually, who went in because his family had a history of serving (his dad, grandfather, etc). And he later told me he regretted not going to college first and doing ROTC. One, out of thousands of kids.


Exactly. Not only that, but the ASVAB is ridiculously easy compared to any college entrance exam, and most recruits don't even come close to acing it.


Like you said, humans and society have evolved beyond that stage. I don't need to learn how to survive, it's simply an unnecessary skill. However, I have little doubt that any reasonably intelligent person could handle it giving the training and experience. I do, however, not think that you could place most military men in a graduate program of reasonable difficulty and expect them to excel.

I call bull**** on your assumption but not because I disagree with you. I think a lot of military men would indeed fail in a graduate program but not because they're dumb. They would fail because they don't give a ****. My GPA in highschool was a 2.1 (just enough to play sports) and I would have failed out of college. AFTER I finished the military, I now (after 4 semesters) have a 3.6 GPA. Does it mean I'm smarter now? No. It just means I'm applying my mind to school now instead of my field that I chose in the military.

You need to get over this method of thinking where school is somehow a beacon of intelligence. I'd say Bill Gates is pretty intelligent and he failed out. I think part of it is due to arrogance because you surround yourself with a certain caliber or science minded people all day and you believe that you're smarter than the average bear because of it. It's no different than any other group of people who thinks they're smarter than others.

Also, your idea of actions that border on war crimes doesn't mean anything. You don't make laws and you don't deal with combat so you really don't know what you're talking about. That's just your opinion once again. And yes, I've heard of the Peace Corps. My sister is about to start work for them.

And once again, you're talking about college entrance exams. Who cares? It's not a show of intelligence. It's a show of how much you care. I know sooooooooooo many stupid mother****ers in college that is honestly blows my mind.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 10:42 PM
I call bull**** on your assumption but not because I disagree with you. I think a lot of military men would indeed fail in a graduate program but not because they're dumb. They would fail because they don't give a ****. My GPA in highschool was a 2.1 (just enough to play sports) and I would have failed out of college. AFTER I finished the military, I now (after 4 semesters) have a 3.6 GPA. Does it mean I'm smarter now? No. It just means I'm applying my mind to school now instead of my field that I chose in the military.

You need to get over this method of thinking where school is somehow a beacon of intelligence. I'd say Bill Gates is pretty intelligent and he failed out. I think part of it is due to arrogance because you surround yourself with a certain caliber or science minded people all day and you believe that you're smarter than the average bear because of it. It's no different than any other group of people who thinks they're smarter than others.

Also, your idea of actions that border on war crimes doesn't mean anything. You don't make laws and you don't deal with combat so you really don't know what you're talking about. That's just your opinion once again. And yes, I've heard of the Peace Corps. My sister is about to start work for them.

And once again, you're talking about college entrance exams. Who cares? It's not a show of intelligence. It's a show of how much you care. I know sooooooooooo many stupid mother****ers in college that is honestly blows my mind.

Eh, whatever. I wasn't going to change your mind anyway, since you started with a conclusion and proceeded from there. However, I did not, despite your claims. I don't make any assumption about myself or "science minded people", since I didn't bring it up in the first place. For example, I think lawyers would, in general, do better than the average college grad and far better than the average military person.

Again, you're getting offended because you think I'm calling you stupid or ignorant, which isn't the case. However, in general, it's true that people join the military because they are not able to procure other forms of employment, be it school or work or whatever you want. That's just the nature of the military. They need bodies and they don't care if they can think, just if they can follow orders. Always has been that way, always will be.

thepointman
12-20-2007, 11:42 PM
I call bull**** on your assumption but not because I disagree with you. I think a lot of military men would indeed fail in a graduate program but not because they're dumb. They would fail because they don't give a ****. My GPA in highschool was a 2.1 (just enough to play sports) and I would have failed out of college. AFTER I finished the military, I now (after 4 semesters) have a 3.6 GPA. Does it mean I'm smarter now? No. It just means I'm applying my mind to school now instead of my field that I chose in the military.

You need to get over this method of thinking where school is somehow a beacon of intelligence. I'd say Bill Gates is pretty intelligent and he failed out. I think part of it is due to arrogance because you surround yourself with a certain caliber or science minded people all day and you believe that you're smarter than the average bear because of it. It's no different than any other group of people who thinks they're smarter than others.

Also, your idea of actions that border on war crimes doesn't mean anything. You don't make laws and you don't deal with combat so you really don't know what you're talking about. That's just your opinion once again. And yes, I've heard of the Peace Corps. My sister is about to start work for them.

And once again, you're talking about college entrance exams. Who cares? It's not a show of intelligence. It's a show of how much you care. I know sooooooooooo many stupid mother****ers in college that is honestly blows my mind.

Eh, whatever. I wasn't going to change your mind anyway, since you started with a conclusion and proceeded from there. However, I did not, despite your claims. I don't make any assumption about myself or "science minded people", since I didn't bring it up in the first place. For example, I think lawyers would, in general, do better than the average college grad and far better than the average military person.

Again, you're getting offended because you think I'm calling you stupid or ignorant, which isn't the case. However, in general, it's true that people join the military because they are not able to procure other forms of employment, be it school or work or whatever you want. That's just the nature of the military. They need bodies and they don't care if they can think, just if they can follow orders.

JabCross
12-20-2007, 11:52 PM
Boy what a snappy comeback. :rolleyes:

I don't see the problem. It's not agains the law to influence minors. It's against the law for minors to give consent.

So, I can hang around ******** all I want. I can influence ******** to want to have sex with me. Then I can get the ******** to consent to have sex with me when they're 18. Or I can marry them before 18 with their parents' permission.

The military can hang around minors all it wants. It can influence minors to join. Then it can get the minors to join when they're not minors anymore. Or it can get the minor's parents' permission.

You're not anti-********, are you?.. Because that would be a much bigger problem than being anti-military.

nutsy54
12-21-2007, 03:39 AM
Good Morning :)

Well, I think US_Ranger has pretty much covered most replies I would have made.

It's just stunning that pointman insists on comparing the base pay of an entry level enlisted with what a college graduate might earn. Completely ignores all the other pays, benefits, and allowances, along with regular promotion and pay increases. Completely ignores the likely student loans and other debts incurred during college (while spending those four years without a substantial income). Completely ignores that he should at least be comparing officers (not enlisted) to college graduates (while also ignoring that, surprise!, many enlisted nowadays actually have 2- and 4-year degrees - often earned at minimal cost while on active duty).

THAT is why we continue to point out that maybe you shouldn't be formulating opinions on topics you obviously have no knowledge of.


As for your perception that someone shouldn't join if they don't agree with the man currently sitting in the Oval Office: You obviously don't understand what military service and national defense is all about. As noted above, we swear to uphold the Constitution. It's not an option to bail if we don't get our way on election day. Hell, I re-enlisted twice during Democrat administrations - because that really isn't a factor. You say we should stay away if we disagree on policy. Hmmm, what about staying away because of the embarrassment of working for a Commander In Chief who places adultery and an intern's blowjob above his elected duties. . . ?

If you don't believe enough in this country, and in the process that determines our civilian leadership in Congress and the White House, then it's obvious that military duty isn't for you. But please stop insulting all of us because we don't agree with your viewpoint.

run213
12-21-2007, 05:51 AM
Having served in the military and then gone on to college,I can say without a doubt my sevice time was far more valuable than my time in college.

People in the military are much more tolerant and inclusive. They also had a higher level of maturity. I learned more from the fellow soldier/sailor about life than I ever could from the rich elitest spoiled brats I went to school with, or the left wing, blame America first proffesors who seem to monopilize many of the teaching jobs.

catmando
12-21-2007, 08:45 PM
WTF???? Why do we need a draft???
Man, there's waaaaaaay too much estrogen in some of you.
Hey reborn have YOU served, or are you just another computer warrior?

dumac
12-21-2007, 08:49 PM
i don't like when people get pissed off when soldiers die and say that they didn't deserve it. its not like the people who join are retarded they know that if they serve there is a good chance they will die and they know they have to take orders even if they don't agree with them. if it was a draft it would be a different story.

CookieFactory
12-21-2007, 09:10 PM
For some reason I find this to be a fascinating thread.

catmando
12-21-2007, 09:11 PM
I don't see how you got this response from what I typed. No I never did join but i'm thankful there are those who would willingly join.

Comparing rush and avoidance of vietnam with the military running an ad in a school paper is quite the stretch.

If I was drafted I would go , but I doubt it will come to that. I'm registered for the draft like all men have to do at 18.
1. Because you are shilling for the Iraq occupation on your computer without paying the price of military service.

2. Not comparing rush to that. I'm comparing him to whatever excuse you're using not to go fight in Iraq/Afghanistan. I though you might have a similar affliction.

3.
A. Why won't you join? Is something holding you back? Like...oh I don't know, fear of death maybe?

B. So you're registered well how nice seeing there's no draft. Very convenient eh?

Put your life where your mouth is. Join the Military and go fight for your country.

Ethereal
12-21-2007, 10:20 PM
no one read it cause the newspaper is crap but the army bought an ad that advertises the new sign on bonus. its 1000 dollars for every month your in hs and then when you get out they give u 20000 dollar bonus.

Better make sure that this is actually written in your contract before you sign on.

hardestgainer
12-21-2007, 11:21 PM
no one read it cause the newspaper is crap but the army bought an ad that advertises the new sign on bonus. its 1000 dollars for every month your in hs and then when you get out they give u 20000 dollar bonus.

damn 1000 a month??? and then 20000 bonus...pretty nice

NYJ
12-22-2007, 02:02 AM
i don't like when people get pissed off when soldiers die and say that they didn't deserve it. its not like the people who join are retarded they know that if they serve there is a good chance they will die and they know they have to take orders even if they don't agree with them. if it was a draft it would be a different story.

wtf are you talking about you idiot? possibly one of the stupidest things i have ever read.

just because someone joins the military does not mean if they die they deserved it because they joined. you little f***, someone should knock some sense into your dumbass.

nutsy54
12-22-2007, 07:57 AM
damn 1000 a month??? and then 20000 bonus...pretty niceAs with a lot of bonuses, they're going for the "Wow" factor. Divide that up over the course of a 4-year enlistment, hack out taxes, divide it into a monthly equivalent, and it's usually not that big a deal.

People need to join the military because it's something they truly want to do with their lives. Not over the lure of some quick cash (that, sadly, most kids will probably blow on stupid purchases anyway).

(Disclaimer: Yes, this from a guy who routinely got reenlistment bonuses in the tens of thousands of dollars;))

Callaar21
12-22-2007, 12:13 PM
1. Because you are shilling for the Iraq occupation on your computer without paying the price of military service.

2. Not comparing rush to that. I'm comparing him to whatever excuse you're using not to go fight in Iraq/Afghanistan. I though you might have a similar affliction.

3.
A. Why won't you join? Is something holding you back? Like...oh I don't know, fear of death maybe?

B. So you're registered well how nice seeing there's no draft. Very convenient eh?

Put your life where your mouth is. Join the Military and go fight for your country.

No. Enough about me. Tell me about your time in service for your country.

You come off with a stupid remark trying to get rid of an ad then you back pedal into this. Not working very well.

catmando
12-22-2007, 12:57 PM
No. Enough about me. Tell me about your time in service for your country.

You come off with a stupid remark trying to get rid of an ad then you back pedal into this. Not working very well.
No it's NOT enough about you. I want to know what plans you have for enlisting in the Military to back up your mouth.

You're the one back-pedaling and crawfishing. You won't answer a simple question to wit: WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ENLIST AND FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY. Why can't you answer that simple question?

nonAtlas
12-22-2007, 01:21 PM
2. Not comparing Mr Limbaugh to that. I'm comparing him to whatever excuse you're using not to go fight in Iraq/Afghanistan.

That doesn't work here. Rush was medically disqualified for service. No need of any excuse.

:rolleyes:

Callaar21
12-23-2007, 12:33 AM
No it's NOT enough about you. I want to know what plans you have for enlisting in the Military to back up your mouth.

You're the one back-pedaling and crawfishing. You won't answer a simple question to wit: WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ENLIST AND FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY. Why can't you answer that simple question?

You're a funny guy catmando.