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A & B
11-01-2005, 02:38 PM
Politically we all know that people in the western world, don't really care about the problems in Africa.

We all know the political reasons for why there's such little interest, resources. There aren't many resources to be exploited from Africa (unlike the oil rich Middle East). And we all know as soon as oil runs dry, the western powers aren't going to care about Mid East politics anymore.

But do any of you feel that the western powers bear some responsibility for many of the problems in Africa? Do you feel that we have an obligation to help out these nations, after all, the European empires literally created them. They came in, drew some lines on a map and carved it up, deviding tribes and ethnic groups, not following the natural geography creating many disputes over resources and land.

I think the case of Rwanda, which I know we're all familiar with, is a good example of this. When the belgian colonized it and created the distinction between Hutu and Tutsi. They literally created it out of thin air, there exists [i]no genetic difference[/b] between the groups. But because of the Belgian placement of the Tutsi's as 'higher' on the social hierarchy, it created resentment among the larger Hutu poupulation. The Belgium up and leaves the Hutu's in charge... I'm sure it sounded like a good idea at the time.

What I'm saying, is that the genocide in '94 is a good example of how the Western and European powers have led Africa down the gutter. Then nations like Belgium, France and (importantly) the United States scuttle any UN rescue or intervention, even while they know for certain that thousands of people are being hacked to death every day.

All this coupled with the extent to which these nations are caught in a perpetuating cycle of debt. Al loans, which these nations are heavily dependent on, come with interest, and the amount of money flowing back as repayments is more than the amount comming in.

Another example from the US. Bush is spending a billion dollars or more a week in Iraq. And his generous announcement a few months ago, was that he was pledging 51.8 million dollars towards all of Africa... Come on now, Africa is overwhelmingly the poorest inhabited continent, one could argue they need the money more.



I'm not saying the African leaders themselves shouldn't share any blame. They are still the ones committing these attrocities, I'm saying that we set the stage for it and now we're watching it unfold without helping stop it.

Anyways, discuss. And feel free to flame my anti-US, communist, freedom hating, liberal ass.

IceDragon
11-01-2005, 02:41 PM
Hasn't Africa got one of the biggest armies in the world or something?

Hartski
11-01-2005, 02:44 PM
Hasn't Africa got one of the biggest armies in the world or something?

Huh? Which country? Most of the armies in Africa are the local warlord's gang of thugs.



And to the original poster, Africa is rife with valuable natural recources.

IceDragon
11-01-2005, 02:50 PM
Huh? Which country? Most of the armies in Africa are the local warlord's gang of thugs.

Thanks Hartski, I had been told that but never bothered to check it, hence the Q. :)

bryan361
11-01-2005, 02:57 PM
Very interesting. I do have to disagree with some points. Africa does have tremendous resources. Most of the world's diamonds come from Africa. Sudan has one of the richest oil reserves on the planet as does Nigeria. There are also large deposits of gold and a host of other metals. I don't think it is the lack of resources why no one goes to the aid of African countries it is skin color, plain and simple.

I believe most of Africa's problems stem from the European colonizers forming arbitary borders which fragmented tribes. Had those borders followed tribal borders we probably wouldn't see the problems we have in Africa today. I think the US has a moral obligation to especially help Liberia as this country was founded by freed slaves after the Civil War and was more or less a US colony.

I do agree with you that money is better spent some where else than going around invading countries for no just reason.

concept
11-01-2005, 04:00 PM
Well said Bryan.

I do agree that we have an obligation to help them not simply because we the western powers created that mess in the first place, but because of our responsibility as human beings. We need to help each other because if we don't, I don't see the human race getting very far. I am very sickened by our government for showing a lack of care and pledge a pocket change to millions who are in need of humanitarian aid, food, water, medicines, and education. It is very sad to know that the number of lives we can save if we just stop building a few air fighters and use those money toward a humane cause. But no, we have to continue to build more sophicticated weapons in order to "humanely" murder other humans instead of helping them.

Very, very sad world.

DarkIncubus
11-01-2005, 04:41 PM
Of course European powers are obligated to help Africa. They went in, ****ed everything up, and assured the poverty of the next 100 generations.

We all should pitch in, but the Western world in general doesn't give a half-a-turd about any brown-skinned person.

theredshirt
11-01-2005, 05:10 PM
africa's problem is even deeper then the europeans screwing it up for them..they have far too many different religions, that say the other is going to hell and they all believe it to the T. because of this, africans cant work together at all and have become so dependent on us. i think the best thing we could do is rid them of religion and try and get a unifying religion. but that isnt rational, and besides we tried to convert them to christianity during the colonization and that didnt work

JoeDirtBody
11-01-2005, 05:16 PM
i think if were gonna go around "helping" other countries and "sharing" democracy in the middle east and so on, then we should be obligated to help africa.

but if it were up to me i would fix this country first...

coontang
11-01-2005, 06:21 PM
Yeah I really have a problem with our choices of countries in which to invade. The **** I hear going on in Sudan, and Rwanda....It's messed up.

thephoenix
11-01-2005, 06:30 PM
Africa is an amazing place. Of course it can be dangerous, but they really are some of the most amazing people on earth. I've been lucky enough to spend a decent amount of time there, and in my opinion the number one problem is corruption. The vast majority of their political leaders are corrupt to some degree or another. Take a look at what Robert Mugabes doing to Zimbabwe, hes got more blood on his hands than Saddam. Hes the Kil Jon Il of Africa.

Many of the countries have abundant natural resources but not the means to mine/remove them. The countries that are being mined are not being done so by African companies, so you can imagine where the bulk of the profits go. In Nigeria, Sierra Leone and other places alot of the warlords/tribes/armies are fighting over the right to the natural resources, and believe me western companies will deal with absolutely anyone.

The thing that upsets me the most is that the west is still willing to sell munitions to these people. The problems are only getting worse and they must be stopped. If we can stop sending guns there and help to eleviate poverty and help with the AIDS epidemic we'll be helping both them and ourselves out.