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94Sip
12-14-2007, 08:52 AM
I am particularly interested in prostate issues. More and more literature that I read, in the medical profession, and some by folks such as PA, is reaching the conclusion that elevated estrogen levels are the culprit of prostate diseases/inflammation.

Here is the PA article from another site: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

Many TRT doctors will also prescribe products such as Arimdex to prevent aromitization when the test levels of patients goes up. Because they know that the estrogen is really what is causing the prostate problems.

There is also quite a bit of information out there that states that saw palmetto inhibits blocks the androgen receptor from binding with the DHT. And DHT is also a formidable anti-estrogen and potent androgen.

So why do several supp companies continue to put this in their products?

ronnie0072
12-14-2007, 10:00 AM
so your telling me that saw pallmetto is a waste of time. If this is true im pissed

94Sip
12-14-2007, 12:11 PM
so your telling me that saw pallmetto is a waste of time. If this is true im pissed

I am saying I don't know. I tried it for a period and then as a part of a "support supp", and both times I had noticeable losses in strength and energy. Another time I took a DHT derivative I felt really good, and I have had prostate flareups before. For hair loss I have no idea.

resurrected
12-14-2007, 12:17 PM
I am particularly interested in prostate issues. More and more literature that I read, in the medical profession, and some by folks such as PA, is reaching the conclusion that elevated estrogen levels are the culprit of prostate diseases/inflammation.

Here is the PA article from another site: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

Many TRT doctors will also prescribe products such as Arimdex to prevent aromitization when the test levels of patients goes up. Because they know that the estrogen is really what is causing the prostate problems.

There is also quite a bit of information out there that states that saw palmetto inhibits blocks the androgen receptor from binding with the DHT. And DHT is also a formidable anti-estrogen and potent androgen.

So why do several supp companies continue to put this in their products?

Saw palmetto has been used for generations by the native americans for such issues. It is found to relax the neck of the bladder allowing it to empty more readily. But it does not shrink the prostate.
The prostate is usually hypertrophied due to elevated estrogen levels causing a large DHT conversion. There fore using a DHT blocker is usually the accepted practice. But more and more doctors sre finding that T therapy along with the DHT blocker works best.
I myslef have used saw palmetto and cranberry along with Diindolylmethane ( DIM). The saw palmetto must be the berries not the plant itself. I use a extract from a company I cannot name, but I am sure BBcom will carry something close to it. Just be sure it is what is states and has its purity tested.

94Sip
12-14-2007, 12:24 PM
Saw palmetto has been used for generations by the native americans for such issues. It is found to relax the neck of the bladder allowing it to empty more readily. But it does not shrink the prostate.
The prostate is usually hypertrophied due to elevated estrogen levels causing a large DHT conversion. There fore using a DHT blocker is usually the accepted practice. But more and more doctors sre finding that T therapy along with the DHT blocker works best.
I myslef have used saw palmetto and cranberry along with Diindolylmethane ( DIM). The saw palmetto must be the berries not the plant itself. I use a extract from a company I cannot name, but I am sure BBcom will carry something close to it. Just be sure it is what is states and has its purity tested.

I don't understand how elevated estrogen levels cause a large DHT conversion. DHT cannot convert to estrogen, test can, but I have never heard of estrogen to DHT?

resurrected
12-14-2007, 01:17 PM
I don't understand how elevated estrogen levels cause a large DHT conversion. DHT cannot convert to estrogen, test can, but I have never heard of estrogen to DHT?

It was a typo, I am at work right now. It is mainly due to dht coversion. Estrogen levels are thought to play a part in the BPH as well.

ezrollin
12-14-2007, 01:21 PM
interesting...

jrs25
12-14-2007, 01:36 PM
I just remember in some long ago lectures about herbals/naturopathics that saw palmetto is practically the only effective herbal out there and that it is used for prevention and stasis of BPH (benign prostatic hypertrophy). Not my specialty so I can't be quoted, though.

resurrected
12-14-2007, 02:23 PM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060213102419.htm

Read this report then decide for yourself.

jrs25
12-14-2007, 02:39 PM
At first I thought it was a light weight article until I saw at the bottom that the study was done with a grant from the NIH (no private pharmacy money to influence the scientists' results) to a non profit organization (a university). This means that this is probably a good study. I've never been much of a fan of herbal/naturopathic stuff (surprise!) and this confirms my doubts of their efficacy even more. I know some urologists that are trying the BOTOX injections (ouch) with okay results. Thanks for the article!

94Sip
12-15-2007, 07:36 PM
That report just further confirms my theory that saw palmetto is not worthwhile, and if it blocks DHT, that is not good either. I still surmise it is about all the estrogen, and/or lack of testosterone.

Jimmy p
12-15-2007, 11:44 PM
If I were you, I wouldn't waste any money on it. If you have prostate issues, get some Proscar.