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yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 02:16 PM
I really dont think there is enough evidence in this report to punish anyone. Most of the conversations are hearsay (one guy recounting a conversation he had with another), and those surely wouldnt hold up in a court of law.

Then you have the checks, but just because rondell white bought hgh doesnt mean he actually took it. Without proving he took it, how can you punish him.

The strongest they have is against clemens, and even that relies on the testimony of one guy.

I dont think the evidence provided here is really strong enough to change anything.

Krunk Fu
12-13-2007, 02:18 PM
Oh did you read the whole report already, by yourself?

yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 02:19 PM
Oh did you read the whole report already, by yourself?
I read some different players. They have nearly 9 pages on clemens. And while it is detailed, it is based on the testimony of only a single witness.

EdgarAllanPoe
12-13-2007, 02:23 PM
I really dont think there is enough evidence in this report to punish anyone. Most of the conversations are hearsay (one guy recounting a conversation he had with another), and those surely wouldnt hold up in a court of law.

Then you have the checks, but just because rondell white bought hgh doesnt mean he actually took it. Without proving he took it, how can you punish him.

The strongest they have is against clemens, and even that relies on the testimony of one guy.

I dont think the evidence provided here is really strong enough to change anything.

I agree.....even with the checks, its easy to assume that these guys where writing that trainer checks for gear, but its just what we ASSUME....theres no proof that these checks were for steroids. Its common sense that they probably where but you can't prove it

Public opinion will obviously be swayed but in reality, legally....i don't think this report does anything.

vikesfankevin
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
It doesn't have to be proven...look at Bonds...Nothing have been proven for him but everyone still hates him and he might not get into the hall of fame.

bbacn123
12-13-2007, 02:55 PM
It doesn't have to be proven...look at Bonds...Nothing have been proven for him but everyone still hates him and he might not get into the hall of fame.

Exactly

yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 03:57 PM
It doesn't have to be proven...look at Bonds...Nothing have been proven for him but everyone still hates him and he might not get into the hall of fame.
If there is enough proof to deem bonds guilty of perjury in a US court, then we can infer that he took steroids being that his perjury charge is that he lied about taking steroids.

As of now, there is no such proof on roger clemens.

bbacn123
12-13-2007, 03:59 PM
If there is enough proof to deem bonds guilty of perjury in a US court, then we can infer that he took steroids being that his perjury charge is that he lied about taking steroids.

As of now, there is no such proof on roger clemens.

Woah he's already been convicted of perjury before his trial.......news to me.


Listen I know you're a Yankees fan so you have to stick up for Clemens, but face it, he's pretty much in the same spot as Bonds. How long did it take them before they even indicted him....3 years? It's a matter of time before Clemens is found guilty too

yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 04:00 PM
Woah he's already been convicted of perjury before his trial.......news to me.
I said "If there is enough proof to deem bonds guilty..."

Perhaps you should read more carefully.

bbacn123
12-13-2007, 04:02 PM
I said "If there is enough proof to deem bonds guilty..."

Perhaps you should read more carefully.

Ok, but theres no such proof yet on Bonds either, so in my opinion he better get the exact treatment Bonds has received the last 3 years. Both are in the same boat currently and Bonds has been bashed for years, now the same better happen to Clemens.

Ralph Wiggum
12-13-2007, 04:02 PM
Do you really think Rondell White buys HGH just to, you know, have it around? Perhaps saving it for a rainy day?

soxinseven
12-13-2007, 04:06 PM
LOL @ the Yankee fans saying it doesn't matter because Clemens* and Pettitte* were named.

I'm sure that would be the case if Curt Schilling and David Ortiz were named instead, right? :rolleyes:

LockeLesnar
12-13-2007, 04:08 PM
yeh i just saw a quote now released by clemens about how his former trainer is lying and of course clemens is saying he has never done roids

hopefully the writers stay strong and dont vote clemens into the hall

yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 04:10 PM
Do you really think Rondell White buys HGH just to, you know, have it around? Perhaps saving it for a rainy day?
No I dont, but from a legal perspective there is no evidence ensuring that he took the substances.

Similarly, if I posess a gun illegally does it mean that I comitted a murder with it? Of course not.

O.A.R.
12-13-2007, 04:10 PM
If a player is punished for steroid use, this report will not be the only piece of evidence. If it comes to some type of trial, witnesses will be subpoenaed, which they were not for the Mitchell report. More evidence will be gathered than some interview to make a case against a player.

yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 04:14 PM
If a player is punished for steroid use, this report will not be the only piece of evidence. If it comes to some type of trial, witnesses will be subpoenaed, which they were not for the Mitchell report. More evidence will be gathered than some interview to make a case against a player.
That's why im kind of dissapointed with this report. Mitchell has a stellar reputation in the senate, as a prosectuer, as a judge..etc, and then he comes out with this document which is really just a bunch of accusations without any real evidence behind them. I would expect this from some lesser known figure, but not from Mitchell. I am dissapointed such a respected person would produce such a subpar document.

bbacn123
12-13-2007, 04:17 PM
\

Similarly, if I posess a gun illegally does it mean that I comitted a murder with it? Of course not.

I think a better comparison would be if you possess a gun illegally does that mean you shot it. My guess would be yes since that is the purpose of a gun. The purpose of steroids is to use them.

soxinseven
12-13-2007, 04:23 PM
Similarly, if I posess a gun illegally does it mean that I comitted a murder with it? Of course not.

Yeah.

Pettitte* and Clemens* just kept steroids hanging around the house with their kids running around for fun.

That's it.

yanksbgood
12-13-2007, 04:23 PM
I think a better comparison would be if you possess a gun illegally does that mean you shot it. My guess would be yes since that is the purpose of a gun. The purpose of steroids is to use them.
My guess would be yes too. Im not saying white isnt guilty, he probably is. But without any substantial evidence, I dont think these players can be disciplined, and thus what is the whole point of this report? It doesnt really solve anything. Its just the case of a respected senator dragging these player's names through the mud with no substantial evidence against them.

IllumX
12-13-2007, 04:39 PM
It doesn't have to be proven...look at Bonds...Nothing have been proven for him but everyone still hates him and he might not get into the hall of fame.

this deserves a major BUMP...all the players on the list better get the same treatment bonds has been getting..ridiculous

vikesfankevin
12-13-2007, 04:46 PM
You know I wish these players would just say yup I did it...My bad...I did something that wasn't banned at the time...If they just admited it, I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with them. They all insist on lie lie lie. Why can't just a few of them have class and be like yup I did it. In my opinion Giambi and Canseco have more class than the others because at least they could admit it...

SpeedDemon9
12-13-2007, 05:27 PM
You know I wish these players would just say yup I did it...My bad...I did something that wasn't banned at the time...If they just admited it, I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with them. They all insist on lie lie lie. Why can't just a few of them have class and be like yup I did it. In my opinion Giambi and Canseco have more class than the others because at least they could admit it...


Everyone knew Giambi juiced during his days with the A's. That guy was freaking huge, but he will get the "free ride" because he admitted to using.