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Cortic
10-16-2005, 04:25 AM
Ok guys i been training for a year now (Yay!)

I have had slight increases in strength overall but nothign to write home about. Same goes for size.

I train heavy, most exercises following an 8,6,4,4 routine or thereabouts.

Is my lack of strength increase and muscular size simply due to my diet? I have 2 protein shakes a day but still struggle to forfull my protein requirements ( i weigh 155). I eat cleanly (40%c/40%p/20%f) but would probably end up only eating a maintenance level of calories (if not slightly under).

Is this my problem? I wanna start gaining for real in about a months time.

P.s. 21 y.o, weight train 4 times a week & HIIT Cardio once (if i get time).

Thanks

:)

bubbleboy_619
10-16-2005, 05:12 AM
You might want to take in 300-500 extra clean calories (above your maintenance) and do some light cardio 1-2 times a week rather than HIIT. Good cholesterol can help with both strength and mass gains, so you can get 1-2 whole eggs a day. Here is a good calorie formula (for maintenance):

66.5+(6.3 x weight in pounds)+(12.5 x height in inches)-(6.8 x age in years)

Of course, you add that 300-500 extra calories on there daily too.

Eggs and cottage cheese are a convenient way to get in protein. As long as you get in at least .85 grams of protein per bodyweight daily and plenty of those carbs, you are pretty much set (of course making sure it is clean eating). I don't get enough protein, but I have significant size in my thighs and biceps.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

saw14
10-16-2005, 05:46 AM
I eat cleanly (40%c/40%p/20%f) but would probably end up only eating a maintenance level of calories (if not slightly under).
you cant grown if you arent going to feed your body. maintainence cals mean it will allow your body to maintain its composition, eating under that means you are going to lose weight.

Cortic
10-16-2005, 08:37 PM
Thanks guys!

If im still struggling is it ok to take in more than 4 scoops of ON per day? I dont really want to but its hard to eat whole foods when ya got no money :(

brute_aus
10-17-2005, 06:56 AM
its definitely ok to have more than 4 scoops of ON!!

and yes diet is your problem (assuming you dont train like a pansy in the gym), you should have made some good gains by now for sure.

increase your calories, look to increasing your protein, and measure and weigh yourself regularly to monitor any change. Adjust your diet if you start to stall in these areas.

Cortic
10-17-2005, 04:44 PM
Here is a good calorie formula (for maintenance):

66.5+(6.3 x weight in pounds)+(12.5 x height in inches)-(6.8 x age in years)



I just ran this and got 1762 cal.

Does that sound right for maintenance? 5"10', 155lb, 21yo...

:)

( S I C )
10-17-2005, 04:58 PM
I just ran this and got 1762 cal.

Does that sound right for maintenance? 5"10', 155lb, 21yo...

:)

Cmon bro are you serious? For crying out loud feed your body...

bubbleboy_619
10-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Cmon bro are you serious? For crying out loud feed your body...
It's like what he says. Maybe this is a bad formula. I got it from Men's Health. Cortic, maybe you should eat more, maybe search for a calorie calculator.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/calrmr.htm

Thestef
10-18-2005, 02:46 PM
I've been working out for the past 10 months.

I gained a lot of weight in the past few months, after I started eating 6 times a day my weight sky rocketed like I never imagine possible.

Each meals contains between 30 to 60 grams of protein, but I try to keep my carbs limited to before I work out and after I work out and with my morning breakfast.

If I were you I would try to eat about 3000 calories a day.... you should be able to manage this amount of calories without feeling like your stomach will explode as long as you eat every 3 hours.

You'll be surprise at how fast your weight will go up.

Here is a quick example of what I eat in one day, I'm 5,11, 210 pounds, about 17% body fat. (When I started working out I was around 20%)

1 - Protein shake, containing 50 grams of whey protein, 2 cups of milk, 2 tables spoons of peanut butter, 2 table spoons of olive oil, flax seeds(grinded up in a coffee grinder, it works very well), 1 table spoon of honey, 1 banana, 1/3 of a cup of oatmeal (cooked equals to about 3/4 of a cup), this is about 80 grams of protein.

After I drink this I almost feel like puking, but I know my body starts off on a good day

2 - 5 eggs whites and 1 full egg, with an apple, about 30 grams of protein

3 - lunch, usually a bit of rice with meat and veggie's, about 40 to 50 grams of protein

4 - snack, cottage cheese with a fruit, usually 30 grams of protein
- On work out day - protein shake, with a bit of honey, 40 grams of protein
5- supper, potatoes', rice, beans, meat veggie's, 40 to 50 grams of protein
6 - cottage cheese before going to bed

So that's what I eat in one day, I didn't mention the extra glass of milk or the sardine I eat on the weekend, or the tuna or the supplements like creatine and vitamines.

ChocoChick
10-18-2005, 04:43 PM
I just ran this and got 1762 cal.

Does that sound right for maintenance? 5"10', 155lb, 21yo...

:)

That formula is for figuring your BMR. That's the number of calories you'd need if you were in a coma. But since you're not (you're not, are you?), you need to apply an activity factor:

Activity factor
Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)
Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)
Extr. Active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or
2 X day training, marathon, football camp, contest, etc.)

This then tells you what you need for maintenance. If you want to gain, add ~500 calories per day.

vja2000
10-19-2005, 01:36 AM
It may not be all diet. A recent study indicates that the body, on average, will not increase in strength if you work the same body part within a 2 day period of time, and I have found this to be true of me over the years. I workout 4-days-a-week, too, but I won't work the same body part for at least 2-3 days. I may work chest on Monday and then not again until Thursday. I might work legs on Tuesday and then not again until Friday.

Also, your cardio may be slowing your size and strength gains. You can eat more, or you can back off on the cardio to increase your caloric intake. Plus, cardio is not rest. If you work your legs on Monday and run on Tuesday, you may not be getting enough rest for your legs.

Rule number one; never be hungry. The minute you feel a hunger pang, eat something. And make sure you take in some protein just before hitting the sack and immediately upon waking. Start eating a ton of banana's, too. And don't be afraid to eat everything on the freakin table or menu. The other day I ordered a prime rib sandwich and a double grilled burger with a plain baked potato and green beans with a glass of water for lunch. For breakfast I had 4 eggs with 4 slices of dry whole wheat toast, a t-bone steak, and 3 pancakes with orange juice. For dinner I had a broiled seafood captions plater with half a plain baked potato, a crab sandwich, a side of corn and a side of green beans with water. I also drank 1 MRP, 3 scoops of Whey, and 1 scoop of MRP just before bed. And, I took in my usual multi-vitamins, fish body oil, etc. I also ate a big bowl of shredded mini wheats with Splenda and 2 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Oh, and I drank 2 Malibu Bay Breezes :)

Not every day is like that, but that is my typical "off" day as far as calories go. I like to feed my body well on my off days, which are Sunday, Wednesday, and Saturday. I started working out again on May 16th and it has taken me until just the past few weeks to get "dialed in" on my routine. In the last few weeks I have gained nearly 3 pounds of body weight, while dropping my body fat percentage from an average 10.5 to an aver 9.7. I am 5'8" tall and am now averaging 170 pounds of body weight.

And for those of you who say you cannot afford to eat this way, try driving 55 for a while...

Vince

ChocoChick
10-19-2005, 04:46 AM
And for those of you who say you cannot afford to eat this way, try driving 55 for a while...

LOL - I don't think I'm capable of driving 55... unless it's in a 35! :D


A recent study indicates that the body, on average, will not increase in strength if you work the same body part within a 2 day period of time

Look at gymnasts. Or soccer players. Or dancers. Or many other athletes. They train the same muscles every day and for hours at a time and get quite good growth and strength.

When was the last time you switched up your routine? If the one you're doing isn't giving you results, and you are eating right for growth, then it is definitely time to consider switching things up.

vja2000
10-19-2005, 02:59 PM
Look at gymnasts. Or soccer players. Or dancers. Or many other athletes. They train the same muscles every day and for hours at a time and get quite good growth and strength.
It's true that gymnasts and others that you mention do tend to train every day, but they do not train the same way every day. And, their goals are much different than that of the average bodybuilder. For example, a gymnasts may train for strength on day one and then train for technique on day two. Here is an interesting link you may wish to look at. I think you will find it both illuminating and inspiring:

http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/publications/technique/1996/8/strength-training.html

Vince

Cortic
10-19-2005, 09:28 PM
Thanks for all your responces!

Well i switch uo my routine about every 2 months. I only train each bodypart once a week so its getting plenty of rest between workouts.

I have increased my food intake and gained 1kg already this week! So yay for me!

Currently i dont really do that much cardio, but im afraid if i keep eating heapos ill put on more fat than m,uscle, so i jsut hiit 1-2 times a week for 15 mins just to keep myself in balance.

I work legs on mondays and run on thursdays. Its cool, i know what im doing when it comes to exercise, but nutrition? Ahh so complicated!

:)

vja2000
10-20-2005, 02:12 AM
Thanks for all your responces!

Well i switch uo my routine about every 2 months. I only train each bodypart once a week so its getting plenty of rest between workouts.
:)
I've tried this in the past and it never did work for me. Then, many years ago, I read a study done by the University of Florida that concluded working a body part once a week is a good "maintenance" program. Actually, the study concluded that "exercising" once a week was a good maintenance program, but wouldn't this also suggest working a body part once a week? I mean, isn't it the same thing?

I know that if, for example, I train my chest on Monday and then wait until the following Monday to hit it again, I seem to get nowhere. It seems I'm only ever able to lift that amount of weight and no more. I'm doing 3 sets of 7 reps with 215 on a flat bench now. I keep my reps for chest between 6-8. When I get to 3 sets of 8, I will add enough weight to get me back down to 3 sets of 6 and then work my way back up to 3 sets of 8 with that weight before I increase the weight again. I find that I cannot do this working my chest only once a week, but that I am able to steadily do this sometimes weekly, sometimes bi-weekly if I work the chest twice per week on Monday and Thursday. I just increased my reps from 6 to 7 on the bench Monday. I will likely keep it at 7 reps until next Monday, maybe even the Monday after that before I move up to 8 reps. However, and as I said, I will be moving up to 8 reps within the next week or so without any doubt. If, as I said, I only did chest once a week, there is absolutely no telling when or if I would be able to move up to 8 reps.

A recent article that supports this line of thinking and the UF study appeared in a magazine (I'll find it) I read recently, wherein they concluded that strength levels increase after 2 days of rest, but begin to fall off after the third day of rest and though I cannot remember at this precise moment, they also explain why that is.

I can appreciate that at 20-years-of-age you feel you know what you are doing when it comes to lifting, but I have come a long way in training knowledge and in learning what works for my own body since I was age 20, 27 years ago. I've done a lot of lifting since then, tried a lot of different things since then, have read a lot of information since then, and have talked to many pro's and others since then. Compared to what I know now, I didn't know squat when I was 20. I'm not suggesting you're an idiot or that you know nothing; not at all. When I was your age, I was smarter than the average 20-year-old, but one mistake I tried hard not to make, was to think I knew everything there was to know. Keep an open mind with respect to lifting at all times.

I have found that what work's best for me is a 4 day split, working the same body parts on Monday and Thursday, then another set of body parts on Tuesday and Friday. I like this first because it works and works well, but also because it always gave me time with my friends and family. I could have a couple of beers with the guys on Wednesday after work, and spend the weekends going places and doing things with my family on the weekends.

You said that after a year you haven't seen much of an increase in strength or in size. You want to blame this all on diet, but I would be hesitant to do so. Based on what I've read and upon what I know has worked and not worked for me, your present "one body part per week" routine should produce precisely the results you have noticed; a slight increase in size and strength and nothing more. Though the link I provided above invloves gymnastics, you should read it; it is quite informative...

Vince

Ward17
10-20-2005, 04:18 AM
Ok guys i been training for a year now (Yay!)

I have had slight increases in strength overall but nothign to write home about. Same goes for size.

I train heavy, most exercises following an 8,6,4,4 routine or thereabouts.

Is my lack of strength increase and muscular size simply due to my diet? I have 2 protein shakes a day but still struggle to forfull my protein requirements ( i weigh 155). I eat cleanly (40%c/40%p/20%f) but would probably end up only eating a maintenance level of calories (if not slightly under).

Is this my problem? I wanna start gaining for real in about a months time.

P.s. 21 y.o, weight train 4 times a week & HIIT Cardio once (if i get time).

Thanks

:)

hell yeah thats the problem!!
it took you a year of training to learn that in order to grow, you have to EAT?

eat up and write back in 3 months about how much more gains you've made in the past 3 months than the entire year before that.

you probably know how to train by now...its time to learn to eat.

GOOD LUCK!