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Johnny Rotten
11-13-2007, 08:40 AM
They obviously don't have many weaknesses but I can clearly see one and their schedule has been favorable in not addressing it.

Up until their game with the Colts it appeared as if the Patriots were the perfect team and their record still supports that. During that game against the Colts we saw the Patriots offensive and defensive lines get beaten physically on the line of scrimmage. The Patriots ended up rallying back and winning but after this weeks game against the Bills they will be tested and we will see how good they really are.

They will be facing the Eagles, Ravens and Steelers consecutively after this weeks game. They have not played a team yet this season that is as physical as Baltimore or Pittsburgh so this should be interesting to see how they handle it. It should be a physically taxing stretch ending with who should be their toughest opponent remaining on the schedule in the Steelers who's offense should be able to run the ball effectively while winning the battle on both side of the line. If the Steelers win the battle in the trenches and run the ball as well as they have so far this season they will keep Brady and company on the sidelines which is really the only way to beat them.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 08:42 AM
Your post seems to imply that the Bills are a stronger test of the Pats than the Colts, and that the Pats have a weak offensive and defensive line.

wtf?

Johnny Rotten
11-13-2007, 08:44 AM
Your post seems to imply that the Bills are a stronger test of the Pats than the Colts, and that the Pats have a weak offensive and defensive line.

wtf?

I surely never said the Bills will be any sort of a test for the Pats. But I am saying that the Pats only weakness is the O and D lines which got exposed against the Colts.

yanksbgood
11-13-2007, 08:45 AM
Your post seems to imply that the Bills are a stronger test of the Pats than the Colts, and that the Pats have a weak offensive and defensive line.

wtf?
Yeah x2

If any team loses the battle on both the offensive and defensive lines, then yes it is a good clue they might lose. Hard to win when you cant protect your passer/run the ball and cant stop the run/rush the passer.

The steelers will be a good test for the pats, but cmon the bills?? Only way they lose this is if they have a let down week after the bye. The ravens are terrible too.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 08:47 AM
I surely never said the Bills will be any sort of a test for the Pats. But I am saying that the Pats only weakness is the O and D lines which got exposed against the Colts.

That still lands in "wtf" country, man.

How many times has Brady been sacked this season? How many times have we seen him just sit back there waiting for the right receiver?

And as for the defensive line: Richard Seymour? Vince Wilfork? Ty Warren? These guys are exposed? Come on, seriously.

Drew23
11-13-2007, 08:52 AM
Yes, against a real team, the Oline will get beat. Fortunately for the Cheatriots, they have Randy Moss, who is a freak and can catch anything remotely in his vicinity.

I agree with you that AFTER they play the Bills (does anyone know how to read anymore?) the Patriots will be tested.

5x10
11-13-2007, 08:53 AM
i think the weakness is the secondary but it hasnt been exposed as the front 5-6 blitzers usually get to the qb and disrupt

i cant agree with the op about baltimore being physical, they just suck

Johnny Rotten
11-13-2007, 08:54 AM
The steelers will be a good test for the pats, but cmon the bills?? Only way they lose this is if they have a let down week after the bye. The ravens are terrible too.

"but after this weeks game against the Bills they will be tested"

As for the Ravens, I don't think they will win but the Pats O-line will be beat up when the game is over. Especially with the fact that the offense should be on the field the majority if the game since the Ravens have no offense.


That still lands in "wtf" country, man.

How many times has Brady been sacked this season? How many times have we seen him just sit back there waiting for the right receiver?


"their schedule has been favorable in not addressing it."

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 09:02 AM
"but after this weeks game against the Bills they will be tested"

As for the Ravens, I don't think they will win but the Pats O-line will be beat up when the game is over. Especially with the fact that the offense should be on the field the majority if the game since the Ravens have no offense.



"their schedule has been favorable in not addressing it."

The sentence "after this weeks game against the Bills" can be read as a reference to the games after the Bills-Patriots game, or to the Bills-Patriots game itself. It should have read "After this weeks game against the Bills is over, they will be tested in the games that follow" or something like that.

As for their schedule not addressing it, they can only play the people they are matched up against, and they have played some good teams.

What's amazing to me is that after 3 Super Bowls and numerous division titles, people still doubt the Patriots.

Johnny Rotten
11-13-2007, 09:07 AM
As for their schedule not addressing it, they can only play the people they are matched up against, and they have played some good teams.

What's amazing to me is that after 3 Super Bowls and numerous division titles, people still doubt the Patriots.

They have played good teams, no doubt. Just pointing out that they have played more "finesse" teams so far.

I am definitely not doubting the Patriots talent and achievements, just pointing that they have weaknesses that may be exposed against teams with a different style of play.

kethnaab
11-13-2007, 09:11 AM
football is a game of emotion.

if the Pats suffer even a minor letdown against a team that is fired up and are going to hit it with all guns blazing, the pats will go down.

Peyton Manning tossed 6 interceptions. Tony Romo had a game this season with 5 interceptions. Joe Montana has had a ton of bad games, and Barry Sanders has had several games where he was completely shut down.

EVERYONE has bad games, including the awesome ones.

Kovalchuk
11-13-2007, 09:13 AM
The Ravens are not the Ravens of old.

The Pats will blast them 56-0. They cant score and their D will be on the field for about 45 minutes.

Steelers will be a solid test, I agree with that.

Mistermidas
11-13-2007, 09:26 AM
Your post seems to imply that the Bills are a stronger test of the Pats than the Colts, and that the Pats have a weak offensive and defensive line.

wtf?

Exactly. And damn, did the Patriots not play the Cowboys? Did we not test them at least a lil bit then? Yeah, Im a lil biased being a Cowboys fan, but especially since the Colts recently lost I believe we are the 2nd best team in the NFL now (behind the Pats). The Ravens defense is under achieving and is no longer intimidating, plus their offense cant score even with McNair.

I understand what you were trying to say about "after this weeks game against the Bills." But most people will interpret that as the game will be played, with the results of them being tested shown AFTER the game. The Bills. . .the only way they have a chance is if absolutely everything goes wrong with the Patriots while everything goes right for them. It would definately need to be some sorta miracle for the Bills if we can beat them playing after playing one of the ugliest games in Cowboy history. The Steelers have a legit shot at beating them as they are working on both sides of the ball.

Overall though, I believe the Patriots barring injuries or the coach resting starters at the end of the season, will be undefeated. The Steelers, still on their best day aren't as good as good as the Pats on their best day. And the Eagles....just suck. I still dont see how they blew out Detroit that game earlier in the season. If you can shut down, or at least slow down Brian Westbrook, you win the game. As for their defense, its mediocre at best. . .which is far from being good enough against an offense like the Patriots have.

laxer22
11-13-2007, 09:56 AM
I surely never said the Bills will be any sort of a test for the Pats. But I am saying that the Pats only weakness is the O and D lines which got exposed against the Colts.

absolutely not. Brady's been sacked ten times, thats tied for second least in the NFL. Give Richard Seymour time to get into shape and there isn't a better three man Dline in the NFL, and it's also the strength of the entire Patriots defense. Your claims are kind of baseless.

JRRBadBoy4Life
11-13-2007, 10:24 AM
Hahaha, I laugh at your lack of judgement on the Patriots weakness. Their O- and D- lines can protect and pressure when they need to. Their weakness is their defense is getting old, with Rodney Harrison, Seau, Vrabal, and Bruskie all winding down in their careers. I've heard many say about how unathletic they are at linebacker, and its true because of the age factor.

kethnaab
11-13-2007, 10:39 AM
and that age will become more of a factor as the year progresses

JRRBadBoy4Life
11-13-2007, 10:44 AM
and that age will become more of a factor as the year progresses

Forutnately for them they will have a couple of buy weeks in the postseason leading up to the superbowl. That extra week off helps those old guys out a lot.

NorweiganLegion
11-13-2007, 10:44 AM
Patriots weakness is pressure on the sides, Colts have pretty much the best speed rush Defensive end in football(freeney) and Mathis. They applied constant pressure too brady and when brady tossed the deep ball too Moss freeney was on the sideline. Id say Giants and steelers got a good shot, cause their blitz packages are 2 of the best in the NFL.

stone fox
11-13-2007, 10:47 AM
If the Patriots were going to be "exposed" they would have been by now. Sure every team has weaknesses...Pats just make up for it with their abundance of glaring strengths ;)

laxer22
11-13-2007, 10:58 AM
Patriots weakness is pressure on the sides, Colts have pretty much the best speed rush Defensive end in football(freeney) and Mathis. They applied constant pressure too brady and when brady tossed the deep ball too Moss freeney was on the sideline. Id say Giants and steelers got a good shot, cause their blitz packages are 2 of the best in the NFL.

you just stated that the Pats weakness was speed rushes from defensive ends and then said the Steelers and Giants have a shot because of their blitz packages...that makes less than no sense.

laxer22
11-13-2007, 10:59 AM
and that age will become more of a factor as the year progresses

good thing that as of right now they would have the #3 pick in the draft.

kethnaab
11-13-2007, 11:02 AM
If the Patriots were going to be "exposed" they would have been by now.

not really. The Colts came damn close with a beat up team. It'll be interesting to see how the next few weeks play out.


Sure every team has weaknesses...Pats just make up for it with their abundance of glaring strengths ;)

yep. they sure have been doing just that.


good thing that as of right now they would have the #3 pick in the draft.

*laughs* I know, sick sick sick.

NorweiganLegion
11-13-2007, 11:03 AM
And they were, the colts outplayed them for 3 3/4 quarters. Brady had 97 yards passing with 14:00 left in the 4th. Penalties and drops on the 4th quarter possessions sealed the colts fate. 3rd and 2 deep ball reggie should have caught that, easy TD, he dropped it. Next possession was false start and a holding? Colts couldnt get a first down and our defense was tired from going back on the field in 3 and outs, and Brady took his shots when Freeney was on the bench, which gave him enough time too hit his targets. I give the Pats credit, coming back from the colts is impressive, i belive we're like 31-0 in the dome with the lead by 10 or more points.

laxer22
11-13-2007, 11:04 AM
And they were, the colts outplayed them for 3 3/4 quarters. Brady had 97 yards passing with 14:00 left in the 4th. Penalties and drops on the 4th quarter possessions sealed the colts fate. 3rd and 2 deep ball reggie should have caught that, easy TD, he dropped it. Next possession was false start and a holding? Colts couldnt get a first down and our defense was tired from going back on the field in 3 and outs, and Brady took his shots when Freeney was on the bench, which gave him enough time too hit his targets. I give the Pats credit, coming back from the colts is impressive, i belive we're like 31-0 in the dome with the lead by 10 or more points.

Colts lost, shutup.

kethnaab
11-13-2007, 11:07 AM
Colts lost, shutup.

now now, no need to be a turd.

Yes, the Colts lost, and the Pats deserve credit for mounting a nice comeback. His points are valid and demonstrate that the Pats are quite beatable because they were definitely outplayed by an injured team for a good bit of the game.

In the end, however, the Pats pulled it out, so kudos to them.

NorweiganLegion
11-13-2007, 11:08 AM
you just stated that the Pats weakness was speed rushes from defensive ends and then said the Steelers and Giants have a shot because of their blitz packages...that makes less than no sense.

Im sorry but lets be honest, its gonna take DEFENSE to beat the pats. Thus i mentioned the blitz packages. Pats=colts of 2004-2005, you canot win in a shootout against them.

KingCanuck
11-13-2007, 11:08 AM
Pitts will beat NE calling it right now.

stone fox
11-13-2007, 11:09 AM
Yea but the Brady lead Pats have a knack of hanging in there despite being outplayed and pulling out the win in the last quarter.They just get it done.

Huse
11-13-2007, 11:10 AM
We have very good O and D lines....
Oh and lol at people saying we have a weak secondary. Harrison, Samuel, Hobbes and Wilson, all terrible :rolleyes:

And you people need to shut the hell up with us not being tested. We have beaten two top 5 teams, can any other team say that? No. We've beaten two top 10 defenses already, who exactly have the Steelers or the Ravens beaten to show any type of respect? Oh wait the Steelers lost to ARIZONA and barely beat Cleveland

stone fox
11-13-2007, 11:11 AM
Pitts will beat NE calling it right now.

So...who did you pick in the Cowboys Vs Pats and Indy Vs Pats games.....just out of curiousity

kethnaab
11-13-2007, 11:11 AM
it's not just defense that can beat the Pats.

Anytime you have a high powered offense coupled with an older, slower defense, you win by holding onto the ball.

Ball control. Short passes, screens, a lot of running...right down the Steelers alley.

not saying the Steelers are gonna win, but this isn't the first time in the last few years the Steelers would be facing an "unbeatable" and undefeated Patriots team during the regular season.

NorweiganLegion
11-13-2007, 11:13 AM
Colts lost, shutup.

How are you gonna be so arrogant? you pulled the win out of your ass, and you think your so much better than the colts? I wanna hear your logic.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 11:18 AM
And they were, the colts outplayed them for 3 3/4 quarters. Brady had 97 yards passing with 14:00 left in the 4th. Penalties and drops on the 4th quarter possessions sealed the colts fate. 3rd and 2 deep ball reggie should have caught that, easy TD, he dropped it. Next possession was false start and a holding? Colts couldnt get a first down and our defense was tired from going back on the field in 3 and outs, and Brady took his shots when Freeney was on the bench, which gave him enough time too hit his targets. I give the Pats credit, coming back from the colts is impressive, i belive we're like 31-0 in the dome with the lead by 10 or more points.

The only thing that matters is the final score. The idea that what a team does in the 4th quarter can't count in their favor is pretty absurd. If anything, I'd say how a team performs in the 4th quarter against a superior opponent is a GREAT way to evaluate whether or not they are elite.

I'm getting tired of people discounting the Patriots, or any other team, simply by listing their strengths. I actually heard a guy on the radio say that the only reason the Patriots win so many games is because they score more points than their opponents do, as though that is an unfair way to win a game or something. That's sort of the whole idea.

Or the other people who say "all they have is a great quarterback throwing to great wide receivers and a defense that creates turnovers" -- yeah, imagine a team doing well with only that going for them.

Seriously, the Patriots are a good team with no major weaknesses. They aren't invincible, but they are not a flash in the pan, either. If playoffs come and they manage to fly under the radar AGAIN, it will be a joke.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 11:19 AM
it's not just defense that can beat the Pats.

Anytime you have a high powered offense coupled with an older, slower defense, you win by holding onto the ball.

Ball control. Short passes, screens, a lot of running...right down the Steelers alley.

not saying the Steelers are gonna win, but this isn't the first time in the last few years the Steelers would be facing an "unbeatable" and undefeated Patriots team during the regular season.

Holding onto the ball? How in the world does throwing 50 yard bombs to Randy Moss constitute holding onto the ball?

Huse
11-13-2007, 11:21 AM
So...who did you pick in the Cowboys Vs Pats and Indy Vs Pats games.....just out of curiousity

Yeah, King Canuck rivals joelz in game predictions. He has only two rules of betting, Colts will always win and Pats will always lose against a "good" opponent. His evident bias and hatred is laughable at best

Cramerica
11-13-2007, 11:24 AM
and that age will become more of a factor as the year progresses

It was actually predicted during pre-season the the Pats would dominate through most of the year, and then father time would step into many of their defensive players towards the end of their schedule, resulting in players getting hurt, worn down, etc.

Huse
11-13-2007, 11:25 AM
it's not just defense that can beat the Pats.

Anytime you have a high powered offense coupled with an older, slower defense, you win by holding onto the ball.

Ball control. Short passes, screens, a lot of running...right down the Steelers alley.

not saying the Steelers are gonna win, but this isn't the first time in the last few years the Steelers would be facing an "unbeatable" and undefeated Patriots team during the regular season.

Our defense may be older, but that's completely negated by how experienced and frankly, good, they've become. Did you see the 4th quarter against Indy? Our linebackers woke up and completely shut down Peyton and his offensive line.

NorweiganLegion
11-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Holding onto the ball? How in the world does throwing 50 yard bombs to Randy Moss constitute holding onto the ball?

Those 50 yard bombs will be non existant if theres bad weather in Foxboro. You guys get your running game in tact and i as a colts fan will be alot more worried than i am now.

Huse
11-13-2007, 11:27 AM
Those 50 yard bombs will be non existant if theres bad weather in Foxboro. You guys get your running game in tact and i as a colts fan will be alot more worried than i am now.

The Indy game was Maroney's first full game back since his injury (I think he only played a little bit the week before) and now that Morris is done for the season we need to use Watson a lot more. Anyways, how many 50 yard bombs were thrown against Indy and actually caught by one of our guys? I don't even remember one, except for that pass that was intercepted. Peyton threw more long bombs that of course became pass interference calls

NorweiganLegion
11-13-2007, 11:28 AM
Our defense may be older, but that's completely negated by how experienced and frankly, good, they've become. Did you see the 4th quarter against Indy? Our linebackers woke up and completely shut down Peyton and his offensive line.

I agree i think the Defense of NE is what beat the colts in the long run. They caused 2 or 3, not sure, 3 and outsin the 4th , and gave brady time too work his magic. Even though we didnt have marvin, there defense shut down clark and wayne and held the colts too 20, wich is also not too shabby.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 11:30 AM
Those 50 yard bombs will be non existant if theres bad weather in Foxboro. You guys get your running game in tact and i as a colts fan will be alot more worried than i am now.

They are undefeated and setting all sorts of offensive records. They don't need to change anything on offense.

Running the ball is over-rated. Balance is nice, but there is no magic involved in handing off over and over again.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 01:56 PM
I agree i think the Defense of NE is what beat the colts in the long run. They caused 2 or 3, not sure, 3 and outsin the 4th , and gave brady time too work his magic. Even though we didnt have marvin, there defense shut down clark and wayne and held the colts too 20, wich is also not too shabby.

That will be the difference maker: Marvin Harrison.

Negatron617
11-13-2007, 02:06 PM
it didnt look like a weakness to me

manning was the one that got hit and fumbled twice

due to the Pats playing nickle defense the whole game......that stretch play with Addai that they kept calling was very effective, thats why they kept calling it, it says nothing about the defensive line

that game told me more about Indy than the Pats, and what i learned was that the Colts are better defensively than I had thought

johnny87
11-13-2007, 02:24 PM
I have known the Pats weakness ever since i first saw brady play. He got dem happy feet. Give him some shots thruout the game and just sit back and watch him dance.

BillabongVolcom
11-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Patriots need a 4th ring!

Negatron617
11-13-2007, 02:27 PM
okay answer this

what QBs can you "give some shots thruout the game" and not have that affect them?

better question....what QB has been sacked the least

other than that, its a perfect strategy, i dont know why defenses just dont hit the QB with shots thruout the game

i think you stumbled onto something here

johnny87
11-13-2007, 02:30 PM
okay answer this

what QBs can you "give some shots thruout the game" and not have that affect them?



Currently playing now?

Favre and Garcia.

kethnaab
11-13-2007, 02:39 PM
Holding onto the ball? How in the world does throwing 50 yard bombs to Randy Moss constitute holding onto the ball?

WTF? Dude, I'm saying that Brady can't toss bombs to Moss if the opponent has the ball.

Ball control offense, meaning slow and steady movement of the ball down the field, wear the defense down. Slants to Hines Ward, short passes to Heath Miller, Willie Parker off the tackles.


Running the ball is over-rated. Balance is nice, but there is no magic involved in handing off over and over again.

sure there is. It eats up the clock and keeps the ball away from Brady. If you are doing something to keep the ball out of Brady's hands, you are doing the right thing.

user23960508710783
11-13-2007, 02:43 PM
WTF? Dude, I'm saying that Brady can't toss bombs to Moss if the opponent has the ball.

Ball control offense, meaning slow and steady movement of the ball down the field, wear the defense down. Slants to Hines Ward, short passes to Heath Miller, Willie Parker off the tackles.



sure there is. It eats up the clock and keeps the ball away from Brady. If you are doing something to keep the ball out of Brady's hands, you are doing the right thing.

Oh, you wrote "anytime you have a high powered offense with an aging defense . . . you win by holding onto the ball . . ." You should have put "play" where you wrote "have".

And sure, the Steelers have a decent shot at beating them. I don't think it's likely though.

Johnny Rotten
12-03-2007, 08:20 PM
bump...



Oh hai. Remember this thread? :)

niospecv
12-03-2007, 08:27 PM
Just pound the ball by running it and slow down their defense. That is how you beat the Pats.

Johnny Rotten
12-03-2007, 08:34 PM
Just pound the ball by running it and slow down their defense. That is how you beat the Pats.

And you do that by being more physical at the line of scrimmage.

niospecv
12-03-2007, 08:38 PM
...and also do NOT turnover the ball unlike Boller. He is the reason they'll lose.

jayson86
12-03-2007, 08:55 PM
The Steelers defenitely cannot lay the brick like Ravens Defense. These guys play pure on emotions and instincts. And you sense that they don't care much about playbooks and schemes, its PURE FOOTBALL.

Ravens Defense: will win you the game.
Steelers Defense: a small notch below that.

Lloyd Braun
12-03-2007, 09:07 PM
The Steelers defenitely cannot lay the brick like Ravens Defense. These guys play pure on emotions and instincts. And you sense that they don't care much about playbooks and schemes, its PURE FOOTBALL.

Ravens Defense: will win you the game.
Steelers Defense: a small notch below that.

I agree with what you are saying with regards to "pure emotion" but don't the Steelers have the top-rated defense this season in terms of total yards allowed?

One things if for certain, Roethlisburger is no Kyle Boller. The Steelers better bring their A-game, but so do the Pats.

Johnny Rotten
12-03-2007, 09:11 PM
The Steelers defenitely cannot lay the brick like Ravens Defense. These guys play pure on emotions and instincts. And you sense that they don't care much about playbooks and schemes, its PURE FOOTBALL.

Ravens Defense: will win you the game.
Steelers Defense: a small notch below that.

The Steelers are the best defense in the NFL right now and the cover-2 man rover has been VERY effective against the Pats in the last 2 games. That's Tomlin's D.

xJustin
12-03-2007, 09:43 PM
One things if for certain, Roethlisburger is no Kyle Boller.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, but just to make sure:
Roethlisburger > Kyle Boller