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View Full Version : Losing Fat Without Losing Muscle



Big Yellow
11-11-2007, 09:50 PM
Alright guys, I've been answering some questions myself, but I too have problems losing the fat stack.

I'm in college and have played football in all four years at my high school.

I'm a little lean, but it seems I cant lose that extra fat.

at 5"8"", I weigh 180 lbs (previously 203), and I am at about 17% bodyfat.

I have eaten high protein meals with almost no carbs or fat for the last three days, and I found out that my head started throbbin and it fealt like i was overtrained even though I took 5 days off in a row.

So I ate some carbs today to recover, but how can I possibly lose my fat to 5% body fat?

It's just freakin impossible WTF!!

Help me somebody. Is anybody getting the same problems??

TheNormalMan
11-11-2007, 10:25 PM
5% is close to BB day competition low. Aim for 10-12% and see how you look and feel. That's a much more reasonable goal than shooting for a number so low. Just cut your cals. If you cals in > cals out, you're not gonna lose anything. Stick with the basics and you can't go wrong.

buddhastalin
11-11-2007, 10:46 PM
I have eaten high protein meals with almost no carbs or fat for the last three days, and I found out that my head started throbbin and it fealt like i was overtrained even though I took 5 days off in a row.

you need to eat carbs and fat.


So I ate some carbs today to recover, but how can I possibly lose my fat to 5% body fat?

did you at least feel better after eating the carbs? if you're just lifting, try getting at least 28-3000 calories or less depending on your activity and work from there. i lose fat and maintain muscle really well with a 40/40/20 split. start with something consistent and drop calories from there. it is possible. i've cut from 18% down to 10% a few times without issues. it's all about the diet and activity levels with the emphasis on diet.

bujj
11-11-2007, 11:32 PM
Big_yellow, are you lifting, i'm asking because there is no mention in your first post...

Supermonkey
11-12-2007, 02:44 AM
[Disclaimer: I'm far from being an exercise physiologist]

I've been told low intensity cardio relies on fat stores more than high intensity.

Among the things that are working very well for me at the moment are:

1. Generous/reasonable sleep time.

2. Cardio of varying intensities for atleast 45 mins 3 times a week.

3. Incrementally increasing weight training 3 days a week.

4. Good diet with all essential nutrients and switching to protein powder in addition to eggs as main sources of protein. Eggs do have a small amount of saturated fat in them but they're full of essential fatty acids that greatly enhance cardiovascular health and efficiency. Mega calcium supplements fortified with vitamin D and magnesium, vitamin B supplements, and lots of water I've found are also helpful.

UliqMadiq
11-12-2007, 03:04 AM
Here are my old tips, reposted:

Since I'm cutting (very successfully) right now, here are some tips I've found remarkable in preserving muscle. These are tips, based on both science and experience/opinion, so it goes without saying that they won't neccessarily work for everyone. Take out your notepads, sirs.

1) Stay anabolic all the time. This means that in addition to getting enough quantitative protein, your meals need to be frequent without exception. I shoot for every three hours.

2) Unless you're on a CKD or other specifically outlined program, eat more carbs on workout days.

3) Insulin is your friend and enemy: do not neglect workout nutrition. I chug a moderate amount of carbs (about 25 g. from oats) pre-workout and about 50 g. of dextrose post-workout. Obviously if you're an oats-both-times practitioneer, that's fine too. Just don't cut down on the around-workout carbs because you're "cutting", or strength and size losses could follow. Work them into your macronutrient totals.

4) Don't go overboard on dieting. You need a plan with enough calories; too little and you will lose muscle. Keep track of what you eat.

5) Have your fats, with a sense of moderation. They will help with hormonal activity and nutrient partitioning so you can stay anabolic.

6) From anecdotal evidence, programs that work at aggressively cutting while adding a minimal amount of muscle mass include UD2 and other cyclical ketogenic diets. These are not for the weak-willed or beginners.

7) An easier method than the CKD route that I find is good for cutting while preserving all muscle - at least as far as I've noted for the last three months - is of the simple "carb structuring" method, where you limit insulonemic carbs to breakfast, pre- and post-workout. Other meals you consume vegetables and salads, with a minimal impact on blood sugar. In essence, you're taking advantage of insulin to have it either kick you out of or keep you from possible catabolic states, without fat storage. It's also very easy to follow and you get a healthy amount of carbs every day so you never feel deprived.

8) Never feel starved. If you ever do, it's because your caloric deficit is either too damn big or you've left too much of a space between meals. Either one leads to muscle loss.

9) You can use strength as a somewhat acceptable, although of course not fully accurate, gauge of mass while cutting. Aside from what you can see in the mirror, obviously, try and ensure you're rep range and weights aren't suffering. If they are, take a closer look at your diet. My money is on your around-workout nutrition being insufficient or calories being too low. Throw in carbs.

10) Don't go overboard on cardio. Don't run for an extra hour for no good reason, don't suddenly start running seven days a week and don't neglect nutrition around cardio workouts.

11) Morning cardio is controversial. Worked for me without muscle loss so long as my post-cardio meal was on the money, but then it may not work for you. Right now I do regular during-the-day cardio because I am down in the single digits where the risk of muscle loss is imminent, so I don't want to take any chances. Bottomline: depending on where you are with your goals, and what you know of your physique, morning cardio could work out really well for you or not so great - but you'll never know until you try it.

12) Lift intensely. Make it a point: have heavy music in your earphones, watch Pumping Iron every now and then, psyche yourself up every set, hit the squats and deads, go into an internal rage if you have to - don't let your workouts and strength suffer at all.

13) Variate your training as you normally would. In my opinion, bulking and cutting don't require different training regimens (especially not the "high reps for cuts" BS). If anything, you want to preserve strength and size with a hypertrophy-promoting routine.

14) When in doubt, eat protein. If the sneakiest suspicion of catabolism is creeping up on you after an intense cardio session, or a not-so-satiating post-post-workout meal, or an unfilling breakfast or whatever it is - pop some whey in your mouth. This is just an off-the-wall tip I find handy.

dabbmw2002
11-12-2007, 06:24 AM
Carb cycling + patience, you should drop the weight. You cant cut carbs that long unless you are doing a keto diet which would be high in fat.

rusrious
11-12-2007, 06:58 AM
Here are my old tips, reposted:

Since I'm cutting (very successfully) right now, here are some tips I've found remarkable in preserving muscle. These are tips, based on both science and experience/opinion, so it goes without saying that they won't neccessarily work for everyone. Take out your notepads, sirs.

1) Stay anabolic all the time. This means that in addition to getting enough quantitative protein, your meals need to be frequent without exception. I shoot for every three hours.

2) Unless you're on a CKD or other specifically outlined program, eat more carbs on workout days.

3) Insulin is your friend and enemy: do not neglect workout nutrition. I chug a moderate amount of carbs (about 25 g. from oats) pre-workout and about 50 g. of dextrose post-workout. Obviously if you're an oats-both-times practitioneer, that's fine too. Just don't cut down on the around-workout carbs because you're "cutting", or strength and size losses could follow. Work them into your macronutrient totals.

4) Don't go overboard on dieting. You need a plan with enough calories; too little and you will lose muscle. Keep track of what you eat.

5) Have your fats, with a sense of moderation. They will help with hormonal activity and nutrient partitioning so you can stay anabolic.

6) From anecdotal evidence, programs that work at aggressively cutting while adding a minimal amount of muscle mass include UD2 and other cyclical ketogenic diets. These are not for the weak-willed or beginners.

7) An easier method than the CKD route that I find is good for cutting while preserving all muscle - at least as far as I've noted for the last three months - is of the simple "carb structuring" method, where you limit insulonemic carbs to breakfast, pre- and post-workout. Other meals you consume vegetables and salads, with a minimal impact on blood sugar. In essence, you're taking advantage of insulin to have it either kick you out of or keep you from possible catabolic states, without fat storage. It's also very easy to follow and you get a healthy amount of carbs every day so you never feel deprived.

8) Never feel starved. If you ever do, it's because your caloric deficit is either too damn big or you've left too much of a space between meals. Either one leads to muscle loss.

9) You can use strength as a somewhat acceptable, although of course not fully accurate, gauge of mass while cutting. Aside from what you can see in the mirror, obviously, try and ensure you're rep range and weights aren't suffering. If they are, take a closer look at your diet. My money is on your around-workout nutrition being insufficient or calories being too low. Throw in carbs.

10) Don't go overboard on cardio. Don't run for an extra hour for no good reason, don't suddenly start running seven days a week and don't neglect nutrition around cardio workouts.

11) Morning cardio is controversial. Worked for me without muscle loss so long as my post-cardio meal was on the money, but then it may not work for you. Right now I do regular during-the-day cardio because I am down in the single digits where the risk of muscle loss is imminent, so I don't want to take any chances. Bottomline: depending on where you are with your goals, and what you know of your physique, morning cardio could work out really well for you or not so great - but you'll never know until you try it.

12) Lift intensely. Make it a point: have heavy music in your earphones, watch Pumping Iron every now and then, psyche yourself up every set, hit the squats and deads, go into an internal rage if you have to - don't let your workouts and strength suffer at all.

13) Variate your training as you normally would. In my opinion, bulking and cutting don't require different training regimens (especially not the "high reps for cuts" BS). If anything, you want to preserve strength and size with a hypertrophy-promoting routine.

14) When in doubt, eat protein. If the sneakiest suspicion of catabolism is creeping up on you after an intense cardio session, or a not-so-satiating post-post-workout meal, or an unfilling breakfast or whatever it is - pop some whey in your mouth. This is just an off-the-wall tip I find handy.


Thats awesome man, I think I am close to this program, ..

My diet.

Wake up. 5:30 AM-- 1 cup oat meal with honey, fish, borage, flax oil cap, coconut oil cap, 16 oz water. then coffee

8:00 AM.---- 4 eggs whites, green beans, pork chop, water,

11:00 AM--- Salad with lettuce, radishs, garlic, chichen, egg, olive oil and
vinager, water, fish cap, coconut cap.

Work-out--- Coffee before, water during workout, Then MASS XXX shake directly following workout.. 55grams protein, 900 calories.. 4 eggs..

3:00--- Water, water, and salad.. Apple, bannana,

5:00--- Dinner, either chicken, pork, greens, 1 small busicut, potatoes. WATER

For the rest of the day, I will be eating nuts and boiled chicken chunks to curb night time feasting freanzies.. Then before bed, some cottage cheese..

I am up to about 180ozs, somethimes more, some times less of natural spring water..

I want to get my protein up to about 250-300 grams per day..

I want to lose the fat, but also gain lots of musc

Work-out

DAY 1

Seated cable pull-downs
Dip
Deadlift
Standing calf raise (rest 30s between sets)
Dumbbell curls

DAY 2

Front squat
Bench press
Row
Reverse curl (rest 30s between sets)
Overhead triceps extension (rest 30s between sets)

DAY 3 (48 hours later)

Back squat
Incline bench press
Wide grip pull-up
Skull crusher (rest 30s between sets)
Seated calf raise (rest 30s between sets)

30 minutes of cardio following each work-out, and off days. I will be doing a combo of sprints and pace walking, but not more then 30 minutes daily..

Also, I will still continue to do my girlie push-ups, 150 daily.. Just to get the protein worked out properly...

My work-outs will be 5x5.. I will do 7 max reps of the heaviest wieght I can controllably, then reduce it to 5 reps, 5 sets, for everything...

Flame on..