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<^>
08-05-2005, 05:05 PM
The most common phrase i hear when people go on a diet to lose weight is "i cheat" once in a while or I "cheat" to "throw off my body so it will lose weight faster."

This term of "cheating" has been misused and total overrated. You can quote me on this but this is how i see it, "allowing people to cheat on a diet is like allowing an alcoholic or smoker who are trying to quit have a drink or a smoke once in a while." Yes this might seem harsh but SO many diets now include "cheat points" or a meal once a week to "cheat" on.

Yes i do agree that u will hit a plateau in everything in life from lifting weights to ur diet- so things need to be changed once in a while to "throw off ur body" to get over a plateau but lots of people don’t realize what exactly is a plateau.

Lets take for example a person trying to lose weight. They start out week one through week 4 losing about 2-3 lbs of weight average per week. Then come week 5 through week 6 their only losing about 1-2 lbs. (at this point most people think they have reached a plateau). Then comes week 7 on ur losing only about 1 lb a week. At this point the "dieter" is freaking out thinking back to week 1-4 when she/he was losing 2-3lbs a week. Naturally when ur just starting to lift, u put on more size or lose more weight in the beginning but as time goes on ur body slows the process down. I know when i first started my workout i gained 25+ lbs of lean mass in the first year. Now if i put on 5+ lbs a year ill be happy.

A plateau is when u hit a point of “complete stoppage.” In other words for a person a diet it would be not losing anymore weight on that diet or not gaining any more weight/mass for someone trying to gain mass. Therefore, the most common but MOST unused form of “throwing ur body off” is just tweaking ur diet (i.e. eating more, changing the intake of carbs, protein, fats), if that doesn’t work then it comes to supplement help (i.e. fat burner, lean mass supplement) but mostly its just a simply “tweak” in something that will get u over that plateau and I for NO reason see eating junk food or fast food as a MEANS of “tweaking” ur diet. Going from a hardcore strict clean diet, to adding 2 meals of fast food is asking for trouble – from gaining weight over night to health problems (gas, bloating)

Now when u hit this supposed "plateau" people feel the need to cheat to get over this plateau. Let me explain why this isn’t the case.
1- You haven’t been on a diet long enough for ur body to even get use to it.- it usually takes 6 months for ur body to adapt to ur diet, no SHORTER !!
2- You probably haven’t followed it as closely as u should have.- MOST people who consider themselves on a “diet” don’t even come close to following it properly at all. I hear the phrase all the time “I’ll start it tomorrow” (this is after u ate all 3 meals at a fast food place putting on 2-3 lbs of fat that will take 3 weeks to burn off). Or “I can cheat once in a while” (after eating that large brownie with fudge ice cream and nuts on top, there goes 3 weeks of working out)

U might look at these problems and it might just be pointing back at u (most likely it is). Cheating is an excuse for an average American who is addicted to the "fast food"/”junk food” get her/his meal in for the day not realizing the consequences.

So i recommend DONT go the "cheaters" way out in ur diet. I know "fast food" is easy and tastes good but once u have been off the "fast food" for a year u will look back on it and ask urself why I ever ate it.

I cant stand "fast food" and I’m continually bulking- so if someone like me is bulking and i eat cleaner then someone who is trying to lose weight..........

.....................then u have a bigger issue at hand. :)

GetImpact
08-05-2005, 05:51 PM
Oh, cheaters prosper alright, but usually at the expense of achieving long-term goals.

Many want quick results without having to exercise the discipline of the straight and narrow... or maybe they do pull it off, but not for very long.

IMO, people would not feel the need to cheat if they'd just clean up their diets 100% over a reasonable period of time. On a schedule, even. Once they have been totally clean for several months, a taste of that old junk will make them want to spit it out in disgust (certainly happened to me). However, allowing yourself a mild increase in healthy food eaten from time to time is NOT cheating, in my book. It is only an adjustment, but it should be associated with achieving a goal... and NOT some sort of reward for "being good for a week".

Many are holding on to useless tolerances for junk food, so that it remains palitable enough where they can slip back into eating it without revulsion. That kind of behavior is only holding on to one more leak in a ship that will sink on them eventually.

Been there. Done that. Learned my lesson. Healthy food tastes a lot better anyway.

Good post, BTW.

dp13368
08-05-2005, 05:57 PM
^^ "I agree with your post" :D

I am pretty much totally against cheating, but do believe in having a 100% clean refeed every once in a while to get your body out of the routine of the exact same amount of daily calories in.

rockstarsar
08-05-2005, 06:13 PM
Everything has its place. See my signature for a thread with a lot of links on cheating and cheating philosophy.

I think most people are way too rigid with their diets. Some flexibility keeps you sane. I know of more than few people who were anal and ate 100% clean for years, then cracked and are currently in therapy for binge eating disorder.

Saying you'll never eat something again is bull. Food is one of life's great pleasures, and gritting your teeth and denying something is bound to get you in trouble. Binges are a sign from your body that it's sick and tired of constant deprivation. The idea is to schedule in free meals/days so you don't binge spontaneously.

Some people only crave healthy food, and that's admirable. But this thread seems targeted to those who have cheat meals/days, and telling them no cheating ..well ..:rolleyes:

One more thing ..I think you don't quite understand what causes weight loss "plateaus". That is not to be taken personally, as everything on these boards is so irritatingly done, but just food for thought. Free days are psychological, refeeds are primarily physiological though some people glean some psychological comfort from them. So I agree that you shouldn't cheat to get out of a plateau, but most people here don't do that anyway.

<^>
08-05-2005, 06:42 PM
Everything has its place. See my signature for a thread with a lot of links on cheating and cheating philosophy.

I think most people are way too rigid with their diets. Some flexibility keeps you sane. I know of more than few people who were anal and ate 100% clean for years, then cracked and are currently in therapy for binge eating disorder.

Saying you'll never eat something again is bull. Food is one of life's great pleasures, and gritting your teeth and denying something is bound to get you in trouble. Binges are a sign from your body that it's sick and tired of constant deprivation. The idea is to schedule in free meals/days so you don't binge spontaneously.

Some people only crave healthy food, and that's admirable. But this thread seems targeted to those who have cheat meals/days, and telling them no cheating ..well ..:rolleyes:

One more thing ..I think you don't quite understand what causes weight loss "plateaus". That is not to be taken personally, as everything on these boards is so irritatingly done, but just food for thought. Free days are psychological, refeeds are primarily physiological though some people glean some psychological comfort from them. So I agree that you shouldn't cheat to get out of a plateau, but most people here don't do that anyway.

I see on this nutrition board threads talking about "will cheating one day throw off my goals?" or "will it stop me from losing weight?"

I see responses like "no it wont u will jsut have to work harder in the gym." This such misconcepted bullsh!t. If u ever run on a tread mill and look at the "supposed" calories u burn in an hour it might take away the 1 out of 3 cheeseburgers u ate at McDonalds. Theres no "really working hard at the gym"- the calories at the gym isnt what burns fat, it the food that burns fat and what u eat. I see people in better shape and better health who just eat right and do casual things around the house as a workout then someone who "cheats" on the weekends and "works" hard at the gym.

I know junk food sometimes is hard to avoid at parties and family occasions but it comes to limitations with the person. I know that after consuming healthy good food for the past 3 years that candy/junk food isnt appeasing to me AT all. I look at candy and i would rather have oatmeal or an apple in cottage cheese (yum....)

As i said most people who "cheat" already have eating issues so saying that after eating healthy for a while they will go on binges is far fetched. as i said before "allowing people to cheat on a diet is like allowing an alcoholic or smoker who are trying to quit have a drink or a smoke once in a while," - i think this migh be harsh but its reality. Most people have horrible diets already when they try to start a solid healthy diet- so always giving them "the right" to "cheat" once in a while is like temtping an alcoholic to drink once again. If anything "cheating" leads to more binging then anything else. People who cheat switch back and forth between diets so much and stop diets because they cant stick with it due to the enjoyment of 'cheater's food" that they love the taste for.

I think i do believe i know what "weight loss plateau" are...........:)

WillWork4Muscle
08-05-2005, 07:35 PM
Some long posts so I just skimmed through. Not sure what the point is, but my take on cheating is if you eat well and workout hard all week I think it is safe to say a slice of pie on Sunday is not going to throw a wrench into your diet. I am against cheat days, but looking at the big picture one cheat meal a week is not going to break your diet. Comparing this to alcohol is way off imo. It would be better compared to a student who studies everynight taking Saturdays off from studying. If he studies the other 6 days that 1 day off is not going to make or break his test. Everyone needs a break.

Steve_W
08-05-2005, 07:45 PM
blah blah blah. Pointless post.

saihaynes
08-05-2005, 10:25 PM
There is far too many ppl who are overly anal about there diet and training...........you must consume exactly 30.7 gram of protein at 3 o clock everyday......you must lift this for x amount of reps.........

If you find what you are doing is working for you.....congratulations.....

<^>
08-05-2005, 11:10 PM
There is far too many ppl who are overly anal about there diet and training...........you must consume exactly 30.7 gram of protein at 3 o clock everyday......you must lift this for x amount of reps.........

If you find what you are doing is working for you.....congratulations.....

I guess that what seperates bodybuilders from average joes........

saihaynes
08-06-2005, 12:06 AM
do you read flex by any chance..........................lol

At the end of the day do what works for you........I eat clean but if I want to `cheat` every now and again I will......Im not trying to take anything away from people who eat clean 100% of the time year after year.......*sigh*......

gazza20
08-06-2005, 03:06 AM
So your saying you can never cheat like even if you have eaten clean for 2-3 months a cheat day will ruin it.

uhockey
08-06-2005, 04:43 AM
I guess that what seperates bodybuilders from average joes........

So, what about those of us who eat clean for 359-360 days a year, but at Christmas or Birthdays like to eat what grandma or mom is cooking? I do believe you're oversimplifying things here. Not everyone who "cheats" goes on a mad binge.

micky c
08-06-2005, 04:47 AM
very gd post

New_Muscles
08-06-2005, 04:49 AM
but do believe in having a 100% clean refeed every once in a while


What is a clean refeed?

gazza20
08-06-2005, 05:41 AM
Exactly if you eat clean all the time imo you will become a bit edgy and not as upbeat I mean what harm can a cheat day do once every 3 weeks.

Photostic
08-06-2005, 05:53 AM
Hardee's thickburger is my cheat meal.

WillWork4Muscle
08-06-2005, 06:02 AM
I guess that what seperates bodybuilders from average joes........

Depends on your definition of a bodybuilder. To me a bodybuilder is someone who works to build muscle on their body in a serious manner through diet and exercise. They do not have to be professionals or competitor's. THis likely fits 95% of the people on this very message board.
An average joe might hit the gym here or there, or might have a home gym that seconds as a clothes rack.

Max Protein
08-06-2005, 06:38 AM
What is a clean refeed?

Increasing the daily carb amount with healthy whole foods. Say if you're on 200g carbs a day in some stage of your diet, boosting it up ("100%" refeed in this case would be to 400g) can reload the muscles with glycogen, helping you exercise harder, and also bloating the muscles and making them look harder.

My say on this topic is I don't really agree with bodybuilders or just people in general who get fat on junk food and then blame carbs for making them fat, because these people obviously have no idea what it takes to get fat.

<^>
08-06-2005, 10:38 AM
So, what about those of us who eat clean for 359-360 days a year, but at Christmas or Birthdays like to eat what grandma or mom is cooking? I do believe you're oversimplifying things here. Not everyone who "cheats" goes on a mad binge.

If u were read throughly throughtout the posts u might have caught this earlier?
As i said, "I know junk food sometimes is hard to avoid at parties and family occasions but it comes to limitations with the person" - this post isnt for us people who dont have a problem with a diet in general.

Most people who are beginning a diet go right away to looking forward to their "cheat" meals and thats totally the wrong motive for a diet period- especially a person who is looking to keep it clean.

I in no way keep my diet clean 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year. I have my months where i cheat or weeks but this is a call out thread to people who cant even get the concept of a diet in place in the first part. Its like flakes that will workout for 2 weeks straight then stop for 2 weeks then go back for a week once they get inspiration and then quit again. They cant truly get the concept of consistancy in their workout. It the same lines with people on diets. If u need to cheat every week to stay on this diet then ur just fooling urself. Cheating is someone u do after 6 months of CONSISTENT dieting- in my mind NO less. If u cant get a consistent diet for at least 6 months then theirs no part to even start.

I promise after 6 months of a consistent diet i swear half the junk food u were eating before you will not want to touch again or eat very little of it. For most people its an addiction to the sugar/caffiene that needs to be broken.

As for most of the people who are posting saying this thread is worthless i can say ur are "dieting cheaters" and feel guilty ????

<^>
08-06-2005, 10:39 AM
Increasing the daily carb amount with healthy whole foods. Say if you're on 200g carbs a day in some stage of your diet, boosting it up ("100%" refeed in this case would be to 400g) can reload the muscles with glycogen, helping you exercise harder, and also bloating the muscles and making them look harder.

My say on this topic is I don't really agree with bodybuilders or just people in general who get fat on junk food and then blame carbs for making them fat, because these people obviously have no idea what it takes to get fat.
I couldnt say it more pefectly myself. Good post Max.

I think alot of people posting in this forum need to read up a bit more before posting.

.Kiw.Da.Wabbit.
08-06-2005, 12:18 PM
It's plainly and simply about prioritization. If your priority is 100% your body, then eat right 100% of the time. If your priority is 90% body and 10% food, then eat right 90% of the time.

Obviously, it's difficult to attach hard numbers to the equation, but that's the gist of it.

Also, despite popular belief, certain people can actually get away with much more cheating than others. It's called genetics.

<^>
08-06-2005, 06:34 PM
It's plainly and simply about prioritization. If your priority is 100% your body, then eat right 100% of the time. If your priority is 90% body and 10% food, then eat right 90% of the time.

Obviously, it's difficult to attach hard numbers to the equation, but that's the gist of it.

Also, despite popular belief, certain people can actually get away with much more cheating than others. It's called genetics.
Yea genetics play a major role in a diet but was the original post...this has nothing to do with it. But going along with this point i am en ectomorph so anything i eat i wont gain a pound.

On the other many friends and family are the opposite and one hamburger = 1 pound of fat.

Really what im getting at is the point of cheat meals and whats the use of them.

sir sci
08-06-2005, 07:31 PM
blah blah blah. Pointless post.


Amen. Im pretty sure we all eat somewhat clean here, and a treat or 2 per week isnt gonna kill anyone.

rockstarsar
08-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Really what im getting at is the point of cheat meals and whats the use of them.

Uh, they address the psychological needs some people have. The more you restrict yourself, the more you're setting yourself up for problems later on.

sir sci
08-06-2005, 07:48 PM
Negative reps all around.

rockstarsar
08-06-2005, 07:52 PM
Negative reps all around.

Why would you negatively rep people who merely share different opinions than you? Or am I not seeing something you're seeing?

<^>
08-06-2005, 09:20 PM
Negative reps all around.
Wow !!!!

Im cool and have reps "online" with people i dont even care what they think of me.

Go ahead and neg rep me- it wont do sh!t to me...............except make me laugh when i neg rep u and it turns red LOL

<^>
08-06-2005, 09:28 PM
Uh, they address the psychological needs some people have. The more you restrict yourself, the more you're setting yourself up for problems later on.

wtf ??!!

U have mentioned this 2x without any backup at all or point.

Heres a psychological problem that i have addressed and fully backup in my statements- FAT PEOPLE have eating disorders !!! U keep telling these people they can cheat getting them nowhere to the bodies they dream of having.

I say lets have a contest. U get a group of 5-10 people and put them on a diet where there allowed to cheat whenever they feel like it- according to ur "psychological needs" and theory.

I will have people on a strict diet for my part of the contest. U say that my people will "psychological needs" that will set them up for trouble in the future. I think this is a misconception.

Explain to me in ur "psychological needs theory" how showing people delicious healthy food that is easy to make- going to set themselves up for failure in the future ?

And explain to me how ur "cheat whenever u feel the need too theory" wont lead themselves into a future of failure, obesity, health problems and death ?

According to my analysis of ur theory, u found the anser to ur own theory. Good Job !!! ;)

Steve_W
08-06-2005, 09:47 PM
According to my analysis of ur theory, u found the anser to ur own theory. Good Job !!! ;)

Your thread is a waste of space. Good job.

sir sci
08-06-2005, 10:24 PM
Wow !!!!

Im cool and have reps "online" with people i dont even care what they think of me.

Go ahead and neg rep me- it wont do sh!t to me...............except make me laugh when i neg rep u and it turns red LOL

lol, i actually dont know how to give or take reps. I see you have 500, and almost 1000 posts. So, for every 2 posts u make, someone gives you props. Good work skippy.

saihaynes
08-06-2005, 11:07 PM
If u were read throughly throughtout the posts u might have caught this earlier?
As i said, "I know junk food sometimes is hard to avoid at parties and family occasions but it comes to limitations with the person" - this post isnt for us people who dont have a problem with a diet in general.

Most people who are beginning a diet go right away to looking forward to their "cheat" meals and thats totally the wrong motive for a diet period- especially a person who is looking to keep it clean.

I in no way keep my diet clean 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year. I have my months where i cheat or weeks but this is a call out thread to people who cant even get the concept of a diet in place in the first part. Its like flakes that will workout for 2 weeks straight then stop for 2 weeks then go back for a week once they get inspiration and then quit again. They cant truly get the concept of consistancy in their workout. It the same lines with people on diets. If u need to cheat every week to stay on this diet then ur just fooling urself. Cheating is someone u do after 6 months of CONSISTENT dieting- in my mind NO less. If u cant get a consistent diet for at least 6 months then theirs no part to even start.

I promise after 6 months of a consistent diet i swear half the junk food u were eating before you will not want to touch again or eat very little of it. For most people its an addiction to the sugar/caffiene that needs to be broken.

As for most of the people who are posting saying this thread is worthless i can say ur are "dieting cheaters" and feel guilty ????


Yes it is important to be consistent with training, diet, recovery etc in order to improve your physique...whatever your goal BUT it kills me to see some poor `newbie` posting threads like `I ate a piece of choc....will I ever see my abs` etc because thye`ve been told if they dont eat boiled chicken and brocoli day in day out they wont make any gains.

IMO the occasional cheat meal I have is mentally liberating....it means not having to count macros, weigh food etc....it gives me a chance to socailise and have a `break` from the montomy of carrying 7-8 tupperware packs around. I dont feel guilty....I just enjoy the `cheat` and have my next meal as normal.

If you have the time check out rockstars ace collection of threads which can be found on her signature........cheating has been discussed in great detail and its a good read.....

Sai

rockstarsar
08-06-2005, 11:34 PM
wtf ??!!

U have mentioned this 2x without any backup at all or point.

Heres a psychological problem that i have addressed and fully backup in my statements- FAT PEOPLE have eating disorders !!! U keep telling these people they can cheat getting them nowhere to the bodies they dream of having.

I say lets have a contest. U get a group of 5-10 people and put them on a diet where there allowed to cheat whenever they feel like it- according to ur "psychological needs" and theory.

I will have people on a strict diet for my part of the contest. U say that my people will "psychological needs" that will set them up for trouble in the future. I think this is a misconception.

Explain to me in ur "psychological needs theory" how showing people delicious healthy food that is easy to make- going to set themselves up for failure in the future ?

And explain to me how ur "cheat whenever u feel the need too theory" wont lead themselves into a future of failure, obesity, health problems and death ?

According to my analysis of ur theory, u found the anser to ur own theory. Good Job !!! ;)

So ignorant, I don't even know where to begin. I never said you could "cheat whenever you felt like it." You're reading selectively and putting words in my mouth. You have no understanding of human psychology as it relates to eating disorders, do you? I'm done with you and this thread.

sir sci
08-06-2005, 11:55 PM
So ignorant, I don't even know where to begin. I never said you could "cheat whenever you felt like it." You're reading selectively and putting words in my mouth. You have no understanding of human psychology as it relates to eating disorders, do you? I'm done with you and this thread.


haha good stuff

<^>
08-07-2005, 12:31 AM
So ignorant, I don't even know where to begin. I never said you could "cheat whenever you felt like it." You're reading selectively and putting words in my mouth. You have no understanding of human psychology as it relates to eating disorders, do you? I'm done with you and this thread.
LOL- then tell me. U just keep saying "psychology" this and that but dont continue at all. Im "putting words into" (which isnt logical since im typing....) because u dont elaborate on anything or finish a complete thought- all u have said to me is this in all ur posts "u dont understand psychology.................."


.............end of point.

image101
08-07-2005, 05:35 AM
I have a sensible cheat meal every once in awhile simply because I love food. Enjoying a good meal that is a break from the everyday things I eat is very pleasurable and liberating. Binge eating, however, is another story. I don't think it's a good idea to have entire "cheat days," where you eat every horribly processed food in sight.

Steve_W
08-07-2005, 05:35 AM
<^> obviously doesn't enjoy dining out with friends/family. This is a pointless thread, please let it die.

CrazyTall
08-07-2005, 09:04 AM
I wouldnt EVER cheat if it wasn't for my family always getting stuff like pizza and wings, and then complaining to me that its going to go to waste unless 'somebody' eats it.
I then feel guilty and eat the pizza and wings, but in small portions, and spread out, plus an added epherda pre workout just to make it an extra productive workout.

*The things I do to avoid hurting others feelings* :(

monkeydan
08-07-2005, 10:12 AM
blah.

I deleted my post because it was abusive and I'm trying to be nicer to people.

Even fcuking idiots...

Baron Sengir
08-07-2005, 10:31 AM
Whoa, you cheating clowns are a cult of stubborn annoying fruit-loops. What this guy is saying is completely true.

First off, from what ive seen, most of you're diets consist of monthly/weekly "sugar-choc refeeds". How can that even be considered a diet, much less strict-diet, at all?

Im a huge fan of cheating, matter fact, i obsess over it. But guess how often i have sugar? Once a year, thats right, after a whole years worth of dieting, i cheat on sugar for one day. Im not a monster, i freakin LOVE sugar. My fondest childhood memories are all eating-related. So how is it that i'm able to do this? Very simple: i love bodybuilding more then food, food doesnt consume me, bodybuildng does. Id rather come closer each and every day to my dream-body then wake up on monday feeling like someone pumped me full of poison. I dont see how you can mix bodybuilding with eating doughnuts every week. If food consumes you, maybe you need to fix yourself mentally before even starting a diet/bodybuilding. I have clean refeeds every month or so that i try NOT to have to begin with, but refilling glycogen is obviously important. Every unclean cheat i have is always written on calendar and stricly on holidays/family events (few times a year). Yet, i still wish i could avoid these days. And most of the time, i jsut fill myself up with diet pepsi and sugar free jello, and call it a day.

GetImpact
08-07-2005, 10:39 AM
WOW.

Those of you arguing for the "liberating psychological value of cheat meals", must not know how to cook/where to find delicious meals that are 100% healthy for you.

Please... for your own damned good... UNLEARN the pure bullsh|t that the food conglomerates have put into your minds about what is good and what tastes good.

Whole, natural food with natural spices tastes awesome. Once you have weened yourself off of added salt, sugar and chemical additives/preservatives, you will find that heathy food tastes much much better all-around. Tastes absolutely amazing to me, and much more satisfying per ounce of food eaten, so you can eat LESS without problems. Whole means fiber and phytonutrients. More filling, and more complete nutrition.

Guess they will keep many of you fooled though. The big food companies will tell you almost anything to keep up the profits. And profits are indeed high on junk food, because it is made from seriously cheap sh|t and sold at a huge markup.

luke77
08-07-2005, 10:51 AM
This whole discussion is pointless. If you want to eat 100% clean and never cheat, more power to you. If you have a cheat meal once a week because you enjoy it or it keeps you sane, that's great too. One cheat meal a week is not going to kill anyone's physique unless maybe you are competing. IMO, however, there is a difference between having a cheat meal and totally binging on crap and stuffing down as many junk calories as you possibly can in a 24-hr period.

gazza20
08-07-2005, 12:47 PM
This whole discussion is pointless. If you want to eat 100% clean and never cheat, more power to you. If you have a cheat meal once a week because you enjoy it or it keeps you sane, that's great too. One cheat meal a week is not going to kill anyone's physique unless maybe you are competing. IMO, however, there is a difference between having a cheat meal and totally binging on crap and stuffing down as many junk calories as you possibly can in a 24-hr period.


48 hours for me.

<^>
08-07-2005, 06:21 PM
<^> obviously doesn't enjoy dining out with friends/family. This is a pointless thread, please let it die.
Obviously u like this post otherwise u wouldnt have posted comments 3x already........... ??


Bump to Baron and GetImpact 's remarks.

<^>
08-07-2005, 06:25 PM
This whole discussion is pointless. If you want to eat 100% clean and never cheat, more power to you. If you have a cheat meal once a week because you enjoy it or it keeps you sane, that's great too. One cheat meal a week is not going to kill anyone's physique unless maybe you are competing. IMO, however, there is a difference between having a cheat meal and totally binging on crap and stuffing down as many junk calories as you possibly can in a 24-hr period.
See this is where i get confused. "cheat meal" is used when u have an actual solid diet in ur day. These people dont have a diet, but they use "cheat meal" all the time which makes sense to me. It likes the word "love" being now thrown around these days- it has no impact on aynthing because people use it in relationships that are meaningless and in society. Lets not kill this word "cheat" in bodybuilder terms if we can ? And seeing posts about "this is what i planned for my cheat meal day, how does it look"- what sort of nutrition bullsh!t is this. This is a goddamn nutrition section !!! not a f^cking how much sugar, carbs and calories i can eat in one seating................

Steve_W
08-07-2005, 06:33 PM
Obviously u like this post otherwise u wouldnt have posted comments 3x already........... ??


Bump to Baron and GetImpact 's remarks.

Yes and my posts have all been sarcastic/negative about your comments.

sir sci
08-07-2005, 07:25 PM
See this is where i get confused. "cheat meal" is used when u have an actual solid diet in ur day. These people dont have a diet, but they use "cheat meal" all the time which makes sense to me. It likes the word "love" being now thrown around these days- it has no impact on aynthing because people use it in relationships that are meaningless and in society. Lets not kill this word "cheat" in bodybuilder terms if we can ? And seeing posts about "this is what i planned for my cheat meal day, how does it look"- what sort of nutrition bullsh!t is this. This is a goddamn nutrition section !!! not a f^cking how much sugar, carbs and calories i can eat in one seating................

U mad?

sir sci
08-07-2005, 07:26 PM
Vv

SuperAmmo
08-07-2005, 07:33 PM
Time for me to chime in on this, especially after coming home from vacation where I pigged out like mad...

Cheaters prosper, just not as fast. It all depends on what your goals are. If you goal is to be the next Arnold, then cheating won't get you very far. If your goal is to keep looking good and not become obese, then it's not gonna hurt you to cheat every now and then. Hell, at the end of the day, what matters most is calories in vs. calories out. Theoretically, you could eat junk but if you eat that junk within your means you'll be just fine. Granted, you won't look phenomenal but you won't be fat. That's not the best approach, nothing's better than a clean diet, but a relatively clean diet sprinkled in with some cheating won't hurt anybody.

I was reading Sylvester Stallone's book on nutrition, (which I found pretty interesting) and he mentioned cheating in his book. He has a 24-hour period every week where he eats whatever the hell he wants, which is more than most people cheat for. He even says in his book that by not having that one cheat day, you're cheating on yourself.

I guess it's easier to live without cheating if you live on your own and your social life consists of the people you know at the gym, but if you're in a family there's no avoiding going out to eat, and if you're in college there's no avoiding Coldstone with friends. The best thing you can do is EAT WITHIN YOUR MEANS. Keep you cals in check and you'll be fine.

That being said, being as clean as possible is the best way to go.

SuperAmmo
08-07-2005, 07:34 PM
Time for me to chime in on this, especially after coming home from vacation where I pigged out like mad...

Cheaters prosper, just not as fast. It all depends on what your goals are. If you goal is to be the next Arnold, then cheating won't get you very far. If your goal is to keep looking good and not become obese, then it's not gonna hurt you to cheat every now and then. Hell, at the end of the day, what matters most is calories in vs. calories out. Theoretically, you could eat junk but if you eat that junk within your means you'll be just fine. Granted, you won't look phenomenal but you won't be fat. That's not the best approach, nothing's better than a clean diet, but a relatively clean diet sprinkled in with some cheating won't hurt anybody.

I was reading Sylvester Stallone's book on nutrition, (which I found pretty interesting) and he mentioned cheating in his book. He has a 24-hour period every week where he eats whatever the hell he wants, which is more than most people cheat for. He even says in his book that by not having that one cheat day, you're cheating on yourself.

I guess it's easier to live without cheating if you live on your own and your social life consists of the people you know at the gym, but if you're in a family there's no avoiding going out to eat, and if you're in college there's no avoiding Coldstone with friends. The best thing you can do is EAT WITHIN YOUR MEANS. Keep you cals in check and you'll be fine. 1,800 calories is 1,800 calories at the end of the day.

That being said, being as clean as possible is the best way to go, it's just not always the option.

JoeDirtBody
08-07-2005, 07:34 PM
good post. i agree with alot of it. people just lie to themselves. lots of good points.


Or “I can cheat once in a while” (after eating that large brownie with fudge ice cream and nuts on top, there goes 3 weeks of working out)


this is were i disagree with u. what is life with out a treat here or there? 100% clean diet is very hard, and is why many people fail on there diets. 3 weeks of working out from one brownie? my freakin ass. u gotta be kidding me with that.

for me its a happy medium in between ur post and the average american. fretting about every lil detail causes alot of stress as well. just eat clean as much as possible and ull never be overweight.

luke77
08-07-2005, 07:36 PM
See this is where i get confused. "cheat meal" is used when u have an actual solid diet in ur day. These people dont have a diet, but they use "cheat meal" all the time which makes sense to me. It likes the word "love" being now thrown around these days- it has no impact on aynthing because people use it in relationships that are meaningless and in society. Lets not kill this word "cheat" in bodybuilder terms if we can ? And seeing posts about "this is what i planned for my cheat meal day, how does it look"- what sort of nutrition bullsh!t is this. This is a goddamn nutrition section !!! not a f^cking how much sugar, carbs and calories i can eat in one seating................

I agree. I think some of the stuff I read on those cheat threads is absolutely insane...but whatever works, you know? Although it's incomprehensible to me, if the only way you can keep your diet clean is to be able to look forward to an all-out bingefest once a month or whatever, go for it. Personally I wouldn't even enjoy it if I had a cheat day because I'd just be thinking about how crappy I would feel the next day. I'd rather go get drunk or something.

SuperAmmo
08-07-2005, 07:41 PM
I've got more...

We all criticize fast food as being horrible and what makes people obese, and while I won't disagree with that, it's also the fact that people eat there too often and order monsterous portions.

The dollar menu at McDonald's is tempting when you can get two double cheeseburgers, and medium fry and a small Coke for $4, throw in 2 apple pies for another buck. Whereas a Classic Chicken Sandwich is $3.40 in itself.

That is how people become obese, ordering the large portions and ordering too much. There's a reason Jared lost a ton of weight eating what many on this forum call "processed junk" (Subway). It's because he reduced his calories, plain and simple. Any diet works as long as you reduce your calorie intake.

I guarantee if I ate an Egg McMuffin and hashbrown for breakfast (about 450 calories, 500 at the most), a Grilled Chicken w/o Mayo, a small Fruit and Yogurt Parfait and a Diet Coke from McDonalds for lunch (about 500-600 calories) and the same for dinner for 30 days I will lose weight.

I'd do it if I had the cash.

Xiphos
08-07-2005, 09:35 PM
blah blah blah. Pointless post.

exactly, rant rant

<^>
08-07-2005, 11:19 PM
good post. i agree with alot of it. people just lie to themselves. lots of good points.



this is were i disagree with u. what is life with out a treat here or there? 100% clean diet is very hard, and is why many people fail on there diets. 3 weeks of working out from one brownie? my freakin ass. u gotta be kidding me with that.

for me its a happy medium in between ur post and the average american. fretting about every lil detail causes alot of stress as well. just eat clean as much as possible and ull never be overweight.
yea the borwnie example was overkill- but it seems like the people who responded neg. were just thinking of the same excuses that real clients and people in REAL life use to me which scares.

I just dont like how most of the "regular posters" here in the nutrition forum dont really know sh!t at what their talking about. And people visit this site constantly asking or reading for advice and to hear what these people say ...........

Just makes me realize why people are so fat.


Im not standing here saying eat 100% clean all the time (even tho members like to believe i somehow said that........i think its more of a denial issue)- eating clean is goal that cant be accomplished in a few weeks- so cheating common. But people hear elaborate the issue of cheating, saying its 100% OK to go off ur nutritionists goal and urs so u enjoy something that will set u back in hte long run.

I would think a fat person would have more drive and purpose to lose weight fast but most seem to get ideas from people on these boards that EVERYONE cheats (about 99.9% do) but they dont understand the controlled amounts issue- not full day binges.

I am just working with clients on diet and excersise in my programs and the first issue they ask about is cheat meals and it always stuns me. How already they are thinking of ways to get the desired they want without "actually" cheating. My purpose is to find those cravings and show them a different approach (a different food or how to cook something that will fulfill them) - instead people here say, "go ahead and cheat u will just have to work harder in the gym"- they dont give them other options.

Its just the perception i get from people in this section....thats all.

Steve_W
08-08-2005, 12:05 AM
yea the borwnie example was overkill- but it seems like the people who responded neg. were just thinking of the same excuses that real clients and people in REAL life use to me which scares.

I just dont like how most of the "regular posters" here in the nutrition forum dont really know sh!t at what their talking about. And people visit this site constantly asking or reading for advice and to hear what these people say ...........

Just makes me realize why people are so fat.


Im not standing here saying eat 100% clean all the time (even tho members like to believe i somehow said that........i think its more of a denial issue)- eating clean is goal that cant be accomplished in a few weeks- so cheating common. But people hear elaborate the issue of cheating, saying its 100% OK to go off ur nutritionists goal and urs so u enjoy something that will set u back in hte long run.

I would think a fat person would have more drive and purpose to lose weight fast but most seem to get ideas from people on these boards that EVERYONE cheats (about 99.9% do) but they dont understand the controlled amounts issue- not full day binges.

I am just working with clients on diet and excersise in my programs and the first issue they ask about is cheat meals and it always stuns me. How already they are thinking of ways to get the desired they want without "actually" cheating. My purpose is to find those cravings and show them a different approach (a different food or how to cook something that will fulfill them) - instead people here say, "go ahead and cheat u will just have to work harder in the gym"- they dont give them other options.

Its just the perception i get from people in this section....thats all.

You're a stuck up piece of ****. What are your qualifications that make you think you're so high above everyone in the hierachy of knowledge?

<^>
08-08-2005, 10:03 AM
You're a stuck up piece of ****. What are your qualifications that make you think you're so high above everyone in the hierachy of knowledge?
Stuck up ? I think u have a reading problem. Yet 3x u said this thread was pointless but yet u keep reading and posting on here..................

I think i could be stuck up to the fact that i have some sort of influence over u since u have posted 4x here.

Qualifications:

ACE Certified
AA Nutrition
Personal Trainer/ Nutritionist

Is that enough "hierachy of knowledge" ?

Let me guess u are now reading this and are speechless because u just got shut down by a professional.

TheSlash
08-08-2005, 10:54 AM
I'm torn on this thread. I do think cheating is bad until you get on a "way of life" clean diet. I myself cheat 1 meal weekly, but it's normally a nice steak dinner, broccoli etc.. barely a cheat. Once a month, pizza or something.

I have been eating clean for almost 5 months. You can see my transformation at pcion.com

Those cheat days obviously didn't hurt me, but I have the willpower to consistantly eat clean. I won't ever leave that.

So, if I want a day binge of 20,000 calories plus (Which I am planning for Sunday, 1st one ever) I will have it. I know it will make me sick of junk food again, and make me even stick to my clean eating even harder.

It is also fun, and if I put on a couple of pounds, I know it will come right back off because I eat clean as a way of life and not a "diet"

So my feelings are: Once you know and live a clean diet, you can mess that up here and there. Think of how you ate before changing to clean eating?? You did that 365 days a year. That disgusts me. A cheat meal here and there just reminds me of what I used to do to become fat, and hate it that image.

I would not tell a new clean eater to cheat weekly. They need to learn to find foods they love that are clean, and get a healthy lifestyle down first. Then let them in on the little secret :)

Planning a cheat day is so fricken amazing. You get to sit for weeks and think of ALL your favorite dishes/resturaunts and then actually set a date to eat them all. Really gives something to look forward to.

I have all my pics at pcion.com by the way, I really don't think cheat meals hurt me, but I was extremely dedicated to lifting/cardio and 99% clean foods.

monkeydan
08-08-2005, 11:49 AM
Qualifications:

ACE Certified
AA Nutrition
Personal Trainer/ Nutritionist

Is that enough "hierachy of knowledge" ?

Let me guess u are now reading this and are speechless because u just got shut down by a professional.
Wow, and you're still a retard. Congratulations.

saihaynes
08-08-2005, 01:32 PM
[QUOTE=<^>]I just dont like how most of the "regular posters" here in the nutrition forum dont really know sh!t at what their talking about. And people visit this site constantly asking or reading for advice and to hear what these people say ...........

Just makes me realize why people are so fat.[QUOTE=<^>]

How long have you been a trainer.......let me tell you having those certificates means very little compared to real world results. I have your qualifications and more but consider myself to know only `the basics` of nutrition.........

We all respond differently to nutrition, training etc, thats why some people swear volume training is the way to go or that the perfect pwo shake is one that is solely hi gi etc........

I am pretty sure that we have all suffered from post cheating guilt...I know I have......but once you realise that the occasional `cheat` has mininmal impact then its easy to enjoy it and move on.

GetImpact
08-08-2005, 02:11 PM
...once you realise that the occasional `cheat` has mininmal impact then its easy to enjoy it and move on.

It only has minimal impact on those who do not have self-control issues. I'll maintain that many people who feel a need to "cheat" on their diet (substance wise) once a week, or at any interval, are only setting themselves up for a relapse into poor nutritional practices.

In my mind, if you can't refrain from eating junk for months on end without the slightest desire to "treat" yourself to junk, then you are not yet capable of controling your diet. And often enough, once you have gained the will to avoid bad foods for that long, you will lose any desire you once had to eat the crap. No manner of lying commercial or false portrayal* of eating thrill/convenience will suck you back into that sorry-ass junk-eating lifestyle.

So... why not 'cheat' yourself out of that 'delicious' junk food for 6 months and then give it a taste again. I can almost guarantee that you would see the light. That sh|t tastes terrible, and it makes you feel sick all over... once you are truely CLEAN, that is.

Answer me this: How does it hurt anyone to eat clean all the time?

---

* Yeah. Eating a Mentos mint candy makes you attractive and cool. Patronizing McDonalds is a treat for the whole family. Drinking a Mountain Dew is like splashing into a river off a rope swing. [I'm in marketing, BTW. I see through every trick and gimmick. Junk food peddlers use them all.]

rockstarsar
08-08-2005, 02:27 PM
Answer me this: How does it hurt anyone to eat clean all the time?

Expecting perfection - dangerous in the long run.

Dannylee
08-08-2005, 02:47 PM
VV, I think your not looking at the whole picture bro. Cheats are different for everyone, when I do cheat, it's not going to Taco Bell, McDonalds, or eating a whole pizza or even having a case of beer, it's having a subway chicken sub or having a a few extra 100 calories that day. So, I think you need to pin point it bro. My 2 cents

Dan

GetImpact
08-08-2005, 02:48 PM
Expecting perfection - dangerous in the long run.

NOT dangerous when eating clean is always your preferred mode, and the rare eating of junk is accidental/incidental (read; not what you desire to do... AT ALL).

Eat clean long enough, and you will perfectly understand the following descriptions after eating junk again:

- Sickeningly sweet
- Unbarably salty
- Feels like I ate a bag of cement
- Oh God, I feel like a lump of sh|t now
- Speaking of sh|t, something is stopped up down there.
...and so on

You know perfectly well what I mean.

It ain't just guilt that is making you feel bad after eating poor quality food. Your body is already repulsed by it. Now all you need to do is listen to your body... and NOT the media deceptions put forth by food conglomerates who are only insterested in profiting off us.

Supplement marketers... same deal.

Lets get real here. Eating well is a CHOICE. Eating well all the time is a SMART choice.

TheSlash
08-08-2005, 06:04 PM
Nope I cheat because I actually do like the flavor of certain foods, and it makes me happy. I'm single digit bodyfat and know that I can eat clean 99% of the time. The other 1% I really enjoy. I also really enjoy eating clean.

Variety is the spice of life my friend. Never having cheats is something I will never go to, there is absolutely no reason for it. If you lack the willpower and think you will "lapse" back into your own ways I feel for you. I know I have control over my body.

RocketShip
08-08-2005, 07:04 PM
You should read the article that Arnold wrote i last months Muscle and Fitness about people who are to anal about their diets. He was making fun of people like you, and saying that he cannot believe how far people will take this. He was refering to people carrying around a gallon of water at Arnold Classics and how it was ridiculous. Also those passing up on certain meals, because of what they contained, etc. Its been about a month since I read the article, but he was talking about how all the bodybuilders back in his day, only trained this strict when they were pre contest. After that, they would eat pretty much what they wanted, as long as they ate enough.

GetImpact
08-08-2005, 07:11 PM
Nope I cheat because I actually do like the flavor of certain foods, and it makes me happy... ...If you lack the willpower and think you will "lapse" back into your own ways I feel for you. I know I have control over my body.

Good for you. Apparently, you do not represent the lion's share of those who "diet" here in America.

And when I speak of clean eating, that certainly in no way excludes delicious foods. If you find that you must eat some junk for enjoyment, then perhaps you have short-changed yourself by not trying all the varieties of wonderful whole and NATURAL foods. The list of those is as long as an encyclopedia, my friend.

Growing some of the food yourself, and preparing your own meals from wholesome ingrediants... is indeed a treat. It is a treat I enjoy daily, in fact.

Not lacking in willpower here. I just learned how to appreciate TRUELY finer things.

Twinkies and cheeseburgers are no blessing to the palate. I feel that once people distance themselves from pop-culture foods and other junk designed purely for the sake of gross profits, they will see the light.

So sure, spice it up. But the herbs are better fresh and the variety is better untampered and not homogenized by factories and teams of technicians only interested in prolonging shelf-life and appealing to the baser palate.

GetImpact
08-08-2005, 07:33 PM
BTW - I just wanted to add that it is not my place to tell people how or what to eat. But I think it is a terrible mis-step to advocate EVER eating junk, unless that is entirely all that is available.

That said, I'll stand firm on the grounds that whole, natural foods are always better. Every one of us who knows the difference between healthy and unhealthy foods has a responsibility to undo the bad work of those who peddle junk (through budgets in the billions). If we don't stand up, people are going to NEED supplements and drugs just to keep alive past the age of 50. During that time, they will probably not be very productive either.

I'm almost 40 and in perfect health, but I have friends who are on meds at a much younger age than I. The troubles they are in are all *diet related*, but even with the advice of their own physicians, they will not change their ways. Many people dead before they hit 50 (again, diet related) and yet I see close friends who knew WHY they died still refusing to heed the warning signs.

That is just fookin' STUPID.

Steve_W
08-08-2005, 07:35 PM
Stuck up ? I think u have a reading problem. Yet 3x u said this thread was pointless but yet u keep reading and posting on here..................

I think i could be stuck up to the fact that i have some sort of influence over u since u have posted 4x here.

Qualifications:

ACE Certified
AA Nutrition
Personal Trainer/ Nutritionist

Is that enough "hierachy of knowledge" ?

Let me guess u are now reading this and are speechless because u just got shut down by a professional.

Professional? LOL. You're just another peanut head "personal trainer". Go get a Bs. and Ms. and then I'll retract my statement.

ck37
08-08-2005, 08:00 PM
I'm new here but I would like to post my opinoin on this since I have gone both ways on this sublject personally. I apologize if i am reiterating what others have already stated.

I used to be so anal about my diet, none of my friends, family, or my girlfriend wanted to socialize with me when it came to dinners, lunches or any kind of social gatherings that involved food. Yeah i looked shredded, 6% No BS, but the unhappiness I felt, the lack of sexual desire you have when you reach those levels of bodyfat, and the phsycological toll it plays with you on your mind, made me sit back and think, what am I doing with myself.

I believe in living a healthy lifestyle, and i have the ability to show extreme will power when it comes to food, but there comes a point when enoughs enough. We can't take our 6 pack with us when we die, so why not have some fond memories with family and friends. if that means having a piece of cake once in a while so be it. i don't call that cheating. As I see it, there is no law or contract stating that eating something quote unquote "unhealthy" is cheating. It's a choice.

However if you need to lose weight for health reasons, then I don't believe in "cheating" for lack of a better word, until you are at the level of health you need to be at. But like many others have said, many people are too anal here, and when you go to the extreme on anything, it's only a matter of time before someone snaps.

dookie1481
08-08-2005, 08:51 PM
Professional? LOL. You're just another peanut head "personal trainer". Go get a Bs. and Ms. and then I'll retract my statement.

ROFL, I love how he slammed down the ACE cert like you can't find it in a Cracker Jack box.

Some dumb**** was asking for help on the NSCA's CPT test, and I answered like 30 of the first 35 questions right off of the top of my head; I have no certifications or degrees, so some frat boy gym monkey's ACE crap isn't impressing me.

On a more serious note, I feel for the people who don't understand what life is about. It's not about the gym, or watching your diet, it's about leading a fulfilling life. Fitness, or bodybuilding, should be a part of the trip, not the sole focus of your life.

This BS zealot mentality is only going to hurt you in the long run.

SuperAmmo
08-08-2005, 09:19 PM
I'm new here but I would like to post my opinoin on this since I have gone both ways on this sublject personally. I apologize if i am reiterating what others have already stated.

I used to be so anal about my diet, none of my friends, family, or my girlfriend wanted to socialize with me when it came to dinners, lunches or any kind of social gatherings that involved food. Yeah i looked shredded, 6% No BS, but the unhappiness I felt, the lack of sexual desire you have when you reach those levels of bodyfat, and the phsycological toll it plays with you on your mind, made me sit back and think, what am I doing with myself.

I believe in living a healthy lifestyle, and i have the ability to show extreme will power when it comes to food, but there comes a point when enoughs enough. We can't take our 6 pack with us when we die, so why not have some fond memories with family and friends. if that means having a piece of cake once in a while so be it. i don't call that cheating. As I see it, there is no law or contract stating that eating something quote unquote "unhealthy" is cheating. It's a choice.

However if you need to lose weight for health reasons, then I don't believe in "cheating" for lack of a better word, until you are at the level of health you need to be at. But like many others have said, many people are too anal here, and when you go to the extreme on anything, it's only a matter of time before someone snaps.


Amen.

What's wrong with eating right most of the time then taking the rest of the time to have your fun?

When I'm at home and get to cook my own food, I always go for the healthy stuff. I always watch my portions, hell I do my own shopping for the food I want to keep around the house. I usually keep a calorie counter in the back of my head for a rough estimate of my day. I truly do enjoy the foods I eat (Kashi GoLean, Grilled Chicken, Tuna, turkey burgers, peanut butter, among others).

When I'm with my friends, depending where I am, I either eat as right as I can or I let loose and enjoy myself. If I'm at McDonalds, I order the grilled chicken sandwich w/o mayo instead of the double cheeseburger and fries. But if I'm at Chipotle, Coldstone Creamery or DQ for example, I usually let loose and borrow calories from later in the day (unless it's at night, then I'm screwed but oh well). Of course the key is moderation, I get the small Blizzard now whereas last year I would have gotten the large. (The rules are different on vacation when you'll never be somewhere again and have to try all the flavors).

This is where I get the 75% Clean Eater thing from. I was at a crossroads a couple months ago when I was invited to go to Coldstone, I initially turned it down until my friends talked me into it, then when it was all said and done, I was glad I went. Not only was the ice cream delicious, but the time I had with my friends was unforgettable, the car ride was awesome and our conversations entertaining. Plus I'm going to college so I won't see them as often as before. It was that night when I finally got it that diet shouldn't run my life.

Is that something I should do everyday? Absolutely not, I'll become a fatass again in no time if I did that everyday. But what's so wrong with eating right most of the time and letting loose every now and then? Life is meant to be enjoyed, and no one should deprive themselves of their social life just for food.

dookie1481
08-08-2005, 09:23 PM
Amen.

What's wrong with eating right most of the time then taking the rest of the time to have your fun?

When I'm at home and get to cook my own food, I always go for the healthy stuff. I always watch my portions, hell I do my own shopping for the food I want to keep around the house. I usually keep a calorie counter in the back of my head for a rough estimate of my day. I truly do enjoy the foods I eat (Kashi GoLean, Grilled Chicken, Tuna, turkey burgers, peanut butter, among others).

When I'm with my friends, depending where I am, I either eat as right as I can or I let loose and enjoy myself. If I'm at McDonalds, I order the grilled chicken sandwich w/o mayo instead of the double cheeseburger and fries. But if I'm at Chipotle, Coldstone Creamery or DQ for example, I usually let loose and borrow calories from later in the day (unless it's at night, then I'm screwed but oh well). Of course the key is moderation, I get the small Blizzard now whereas last year I would have gotten the large. (The rules are different on vacation when you'll never be somewhere again and have to try all the flavors).

This is where I get the 75% Clean Eater thing from. I was at a crossroads a couple months ago when I was invited to go to Coldstone, I initially turned it down until my friends talked me into it, then when it was all said and done, I was glad I went. Not only was the ice cream delicious, but the time I had with my friends was unforgettable, the car ride was awesome and our conversations entertaining. Plus I'm going to college so I won't see them as often as before. It was that night when I finally got it that diet shouldn't run my life.

Is that something I should do everyday? Absolutely not, I'll become a fatass again in no time if I did that everyday. But what's so wrong with eating right most of the time and letting loose every now and then? Life is meant to be enjoyed, and no one should deprive themselves of their social life just for food.

Well said.

I just imagine some of these guys would leave in the middle of banging some girl so they can go down a protein shake.

sir sci
08-08-2005, 09:48 PM
You're a stuck up piece of ****. What are your qualifications that make you think you're so high above everyone in the hierachy of knowledge?


MAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

<^>
08-08-2005, 10:33 PM
ROFL, I love how he slammed down the ACE cert like you can't find it in a Cracker Jack box.

Some dumb**** was asking for help on the NSCA's CPT test, and I answered like 30 of the first 35 questions right off of the top of my head; I have no certifications or degrees, so some frat boy gym monkey's ACE crap isn't impressing me.

On a more serious note, I feel for the people who don't understand what life is about. It's not about the gym, or watching your diet, it's about leading a fulfilling life. Fitness, or bodybuilding, should be a part of the trip, not the sole focus of your life.

This BS zealot mentality is only going to hurt you in the long run.

If u knew exactly what the ACE program consists of, then u wouldnt be making such imature unitelligent remarks.

ACE stands different then any online certificate- thats why i chose it. It takes hours upon hours to specialize in certain fields of the program with a professional (i.e. im training with an Olympic trained powerlifter and I have to spend 100+ hours with him)- where upon u are given an exam to get a license to train in that area.

Where upon the ISSA, NSCA, etc... u can take all the info online and are given as many chances as u need to pass the final exam- as for the ACE u are given only one chance and if u dont pass u have a waiting period to take it again and then u have to pay for it again. the ISSA, NSCA, etc.... any retard can take it and pass because its also open book.

So in terms of impressing u......thats not my goal. My goal is to correct ur child like mouth and mind- setting it back into reality.

fu3lforthought
08-08-2005, 11:27 PM
I have been reading about calorie cycling, having say 3 deficit days followed by one maintenance day and then repeating the process.
For someone about to start their first diet with the goal of bf loss would you guys recommend using this tool from the beginning or only once a plateau is reached?
Should I just pull out all the nutritional stops from the beginning (like calorie and carb cycling, carb tapering, 5/6 meals a day etc) and then once a plateau is reached introduce thermogenics and other supps?

Corbin
08-09-2005, 12:34 AM
VV, I think your not looking at the whole picture bro. Cheats are different for everyone, when I do cheat, it's not going to Taco Bell, McDonalds, or eating a whole pizza or even having a case of beer, it's having a subway chicken sub or having a a few extra 100 calories that day. So, I think you need to pin point it bro. My 2 cents

Dan

what's so bad about subway chicken sub? Subway is great.

TheSlash
08-09-2005, 06:36 AM
Good for you. Apparently, you do not represent the lion's share of those who "diet" here in America.

And when I speak of clean eating, that certainly in no way excludes delicious foods. If you find that you must eat some junk for enjoyment, then perhaps you have short-changed yourself by not trying all the varieties of wonderful whole and NATURAL foods. The list of those is as long as an encyclopedia, my friend.

Growing some of the food yourself, and preparing your own meals from wholesome ingrediants... is indeed a treat. It is a treat I enjoy daily, in fact.

Not lacking in willpower here. I just learned how to appreciate TRUELY finer things.

Twinkies and cheeseburgers are no blessing to the palate. I feel that once people distance themselves from pop-culture foods and other junk designed purely for the sake of gross profits, they will see the light.

So sure, spice it up. But the herbs are better fresh and the variety is better untampered and not homogenized by factories and teams of technicians only interested in prolonging shelf-life and appealing to the baser palate.


I hear you. I love my clean food. Grilled lean steaks, chicken breast, cotage cheese, nat peanut butter, eggs, oats, beans, brocolli, etc... I LOVE my clean food. However the taste for sugar is something I will never loose. I can't eat as much of it now without getting a belly ache, but I love it just the same.

I do disagree on the cheeseburger thing though. I find them very very tasty!! Prefer home made though. Twinkie I can see, all processed crap. But a burger is beef and bread, and can be all natural.

TDF97
08-09-2005, 08:25 AM
Amen.

What's wrong with eating right most of the time then taking the rest of the time to have your fun?

When I'm at home and get to cook my own food, I always go for the healthy stuff. I always watch my portions, hell I do my own shopping for the food I want to keep around the house. I usually keep a calorie counter in the back of my head for a rough estimate of my day. I truly do enjoy the foods I eat (Kashi GoLean, Grilled Chicken, Tuna, turkey burgers, peanut butter, among others).

When I'm with my friends, depending where I am, I either eat as right as I can or I let loose and enjoy myself. If I'm at McDonalds, I order the grilled chicken sandwich w/o mayo instead of the double cheeseburger and fries. But if I'm at Chipotle, Coldstone Creamery or DQ for example, I usually let loose and borrow calories from later in the day (unless it's at night, then I'm screwed but oh well). Of course the key is moderation, I get the small Blizzard now whereas last year I would have gotten the large. (The rules are different on vacation when you'll never be somewhere again and have to try all the flavors).

This is where I get the 75% Clean Eater thing from. I was at a crossroads a couple months ago when I was invited to go to Coldstone, I initially turned it down until my friends talked me into it, then when it was all said and done, I was glad I went. Not only was the ice cream delicious, but the time I had with my friends was unforgettable, the car ride was awesome and our conversations entertaining. Plus I'm going to college so I won't see them as often as before. It was that night when I finally got it that diet shouldn't run my life.

Is that something I should do everyday? Absolutely not, I'll become a fatass again in no time if I did that everyday. But what's so wrong with eating right most of the time and letting loose every now and then? Life is meant to be enjoyed, and no one should deprive themselves of their social life just for food.

I think SuperAmmo summed it up best. I eat clean 95% of the time. Oats, egg beater, tuna, chicken, cottage cheese, etc. But sometimes you do just need to have something tasty. I mean, sometimes I cannot stand the taste of my oats in the morning, and seriously just want to puke them up. But I still down them knowing I have my ultimate goal in mind. So if once every two weeks I feel like having a couple of slices of pizza with my friends, it doesnt make me weak, it makes me human.

dookie1481
08-09-2005, 06:19 PM
If u knew exactly what the ACE program consists of, then u wouldnt be making such imature unitelligent remarks.

ACE stands different then any online certificate- thats why i chose it. It takes hours upon hours to specialize in certain fields of the program with a professional (i.e. im training with an Olympic trained powerlifter and I have to spend 100+ hours with him)- where upon u are given an exam to get a license to train in that area.

Where upon the ISSA, NSCA, etc... u can take all the info online and are given as many chances as u need to pass the final exam- as for the ACE u are given only one chance and if u dont pass u have a waiting period to take it again and then u have to pay for it again. the ISSA, NSCA, etc.... any retard can take it and pass because its also open book.

So in terms of impressing u......thats not my goal. My goal is to correct ur child like mouth and mind- setting it back into reality.

WTF is an Olympic trained powerlifter?

Adam444
08-09-2005, 06:45 PM
Everyone in here has cheated.

Everyone in here will cheat again.

End of story.


15 cheat days out of 365 will not make you fat.

<^>
08-09-2005, 07:12 PM
WTF is an Olympic trained powerlifter?

A person who has certificates in training olympic powerlifters..............


..................can u not read or comprehend ?


Maybe u should start looking online for ur info before u continue stupid posts and trying to stir up a conflict online- u wont sound like a jackass then.

dookie1481
08-09-2005, 08:21 PM
A person who has certificates in training olympic powerlifters..............


..................can u not read or comprehend ?


Maybe u should start looking online for ur info before u continue stupid posts and trying to stir up a conflict online- u wont sound like a jackass then.

Olympic weightlifting and Powerlifting are two entirely different sports.

You were saying something about jackasses...? :D

RepubCarrier
08-09-2005, 09:50 PM
Being an "ACE certified" personal trainer certainly hasn't aided you in being able to create a science-based defense to your viewpoints. Furthermore, you don't know it, but you are arguing against a REAL (i.e. not ACE certified) professional in this thread, who has ACTUAL anecdotal and scientific knowledge regarding this topic.

Please admit that you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about, and are just throwing out whatever sounds good or what has worked for n<3 people you're trained/consulted so far.

sir sci
08-09-2005, 09:53 PM
A person who has certificates in training olympic powerlifters..............


..................can u not read or comprehend ?


Maybe u should start looking online for ur info before u continue stupid posts and trying to stir up a conflict online- u wont sound like a jackass then.


U mad?

dookie1481
08-09-2005, 10:02 PM
Being an "ACE certified" personal trainer certainly hasn't aided you in being able to create a science-based defense to your viewpoints. Furthermore, you don't know it, but you are arguing against a REAL (i.e. not ACE certified) professional in this thread, who has ACTUAL anecdotal and scientific knowledge regarding this topic.

Please admit that you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about, and are just throwing out whatever sounds good or what has worked for n<3 people you're trained/consulted so far.

Might I add that the state of personal training, at least based upon my experiences and observations, is in such a sad state that when I find out someone is a trainer, I presume they know less than the average gym rat.

The trainers I have seen over the last few years generally fall into one of two groups:

1) The former BBer/Fitness competitor who prescribes a one-size-fits-all routine, because, well, it worked for them. If their clients don't make progress, it's because their diet sucks or they don't work hard enough.

2) The skinny frat boy with a tight T-shirt and a bunch of letters behind his name. Anything that wasn't in the NSCA (ACE, ISSA, take your pick) training manual can't possibly work. Additionally, anything contradicting said bible can't be true either, despite ****piles of empirical and anecdotal evidence stating that it does work.

Generally, personal trainers are asshats. They get their continuing education (such as it is) from Flex and NSCA conferences and the juice monkey in the corner of the gym, and spout it as gospel. I presume that they are all idiots until proven otherwise.

<^>
08-10-2005, 12:48 AM
Being an "ACE certified" personal trainer certainly hasn't aided you in being able to create a science-based defense to your viewpoints. Furthermore, you don't know it, but you are arguing against a REAL (i.e. not ACE certified) professional in this thread, who has ACTUAL anecdotal and scientific knowledge regarding this topic.

Please admit that you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about, and are just throwing out whatever sounds good or what has worked for n<3 people you're trained/consulted so far.
who would that be ?

I havent heard anyone "who has ACTUAL anecdotal and scientific knowledge regarding this topic"- so please endulge me. :)

rockstarsar
08-10-2005, 01:04 AM
I havent heard anyone "who has ACTUAL anecdotal and scientific knowledge regarding this topic"- so please endulge me. :)

You could ask that friend of yours you trained and dropped some body fat. You know, the one who had a few cheat meals throughout the week. There's some good anecdote to be had over there ..

carlh_uk
08-10-2005, 04:36 AM
wtf ??!!
Heres a psychological problem that i have addressed and fully backup in my statements- FAT PEOPLE have eating disorders !!! U keep telling these people they can cheat getting them nowhere to the bodies they dream of having.


as you mention your an ectomorph, so its not really your place to say fat people have eating disorders, there are many various reasons why people are overweight, agreed SOME may have eating disorders. i think your being quite disrespectful to a lot of honest endo's who stick to diets and have trouble shifting weight.