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PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 08:57 AM
By JAMIE STENGLE, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 39 minutes ago

DALLAS - Exposure to cigarette smoke raises the risk among teens of metabolic syndrome, a disorder associated with excess belly fat that increases the chances of heart disease, stroke and diabetes, according to a study.

Researchers said it is the first study to establish such a link in teenagers.

"The bottom line to me is: As we gear up to take on this epidemic of obesity, we cannot abandon protecting our children from secondhand smoke and smoking," said lead author Dr. Michael Weitzman, executive director of the American Academy of Pediatrics Center for Child Health Research in Rochester, N.Y.

For the study, metabolic syndrome was defined as having at least three of five characteristics: a big waist, high blood pressure, high levels of blood fats called triglycerides, low levels of good cholesterol, and evidence of insulin resistance, in which the body cannot efficiently use insulin.

In the study, published Monday in the American Heart Association online journal Circulation, researchers found that 6 percent of 12- to 19-year-olds had metabolic syndrome and that the prevalence increased with exposure to tobacco smoke.

The study found that 1 percent of those unexposed to smoke developed the syndrome, 5 percent of those exposed to secondhand smoke had the disorder and 9 percent of active smokers had it.

Looking at teens who were overweight or at risk for being overweight, the effect of smoke was even more marked, with 6 percent of those not exposed to smoke developing syndrome, 20 percent of those exposed to secondhand smoke getting it and 24 percent of smokers suffering from the disorder.

"What this shows is that the percentages of kids who are at risk is vastly higher if they're overweight and they're exposed to secondhand smoke, down to very low levels," Weitzman said.

Weitzman said it is not clear what it is about smoking that appears to make teenagers more susceptible to metabolic syndrome.

However, in adults smoking has been linked to insulin resistance, a risk factor for metabolic syndrome. Doctors also point out that smoking can lower levels of good cholesterol and raise blood pressure, two more markers for the disorder.

The researchers looked at 2,273 adolescents, using information from a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention survey. The youngsters reported their own use of tobacco. Also, the study looked at measurements of cotinine, a product of nicotine after it enters the body. Two-thirds of teens who did not smoke had cotinine levels that indicated secondhand smoke exposure.

"It's sobering," said Dr. Michael Lim, assistant professor of internal medicine in the division of cardiology at Saint Louis University School of Medicine. "What it points out is a very high-risk group of people young adults 12 to 19 who are exposed to tobacco products and sedentary."

The number of overweight teens in the United States has tripled in the past two decades.

I find this highly interesting since nicotine is known for increasing calorie expenditure.

Other things such as the xanthines have been used for fat loss while they are also known for increasing insulin resistance in skeletal muscle so in the long run things like caffeine will actually make you less musculare and more prone to gain fat, diabetics have known for ages that caffeine increases blood sugar. As we all know, coffe and a cigarette go hand in hand so this may be even worse.

I can't find a direct link to the study but i would be interested if anyone else can.

391rippy
08-02-2005, 09:58 AM
interesting. one thing i noticed is that all they are saying is that there is a correlation between smoking (1st or 2nd hand) and obesity, but it doesn't neccesarily prove that smoking will increase obesity. people who smoke don't care about their health as much, so they're more likely to be obese.

rungrl
08-02-2005, 10:09 AM
Interesting....from articles I have read, and from personal experience there are other related factors.

Those who are poor are more likely to both smoke and be obese.....and one article stated that someone who smokes has a 50% greater chance of being obese (even though nicotine tends to speed metabolism).

I think it has more to do with lifestyle that medical evidence. If smokers are more likely obese, this study was probably biased......many of the kids in the study probably had parents who were both smokers and obese.

Their parents lifestyle was most likely more of a factor than the smoke.

JonZ
08-02-2005, 10:12 AM
That goes against everything Ive ever seen and even felt. I was a smoker for years and most of my friends smoked.

Smoking usually made us less hungry. As long as we had cigs we were more likely to skip or wait longer for meals.

Agnostic
08-02-2005, 10:20 AM
What? An unhealthy lifestlye is linked to an unhealthy lifestyle...id never believe it

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 10:21 AM
Interesting....from articles I have read, and from personal experience there are other related factors.

Those who are poor are more likely to both smoke and be obese.....and one article stated that someone who smokes has a 50% greater chance of being obese (even though nicotine tends to speed metabolism).

I think it has more to do with lifestyle that medical evidence. If smokers are more likely obese, this study was probably biased......many of the kids in the study probably had parents who were both smokers and obese.

Their parents lifestyle was most likely more of a factor than the smoke.

From my perspective, as an M.Sc i find it interesting indeed, and many of the other things we "know" to be nutrient repartitioners and fat burners are actually counterproductive in the long run.

I'd be interested in seeing the study though but can't find it. :(

As a comparison, we know that caffeine is lipolytic and speeds up fat metabolism, yet someone who uses caffeine will, in the long run have a lower fat metabolism and a lower insulin sensitivity (which, to us bodybuilders is probably the worst thing about xanthines).

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 10:23 AM
That goes against everything Ive ever seen and even felt. I was a smoker for years and most of my friends smoked.

Smoking usually made us less hungry. As long as we had cigs we were more likely to skip or wait longer for meals.

Low calorie diets tend to make you inactive, low calories and inactivity will reduce musclular volume and increase insulin resistance.

JonZ
08-02-2005, 10:36 AM
Low calorie diets tend to make you inactive, low calories and inactivity will reduce musclular volume and increase insulin resistance.

Yes Swede I do understand that.

But I can say only one smoker I know/knew out of maybe 20(and more at one point) could be considered overweight.(of course this was years ago and people are getting more overweight everyday)

Age would certainly play a factor in that as you loose muscle as you get older as well.

But most of these guys smoked when they were younger and some were even very active physically. I remember lifting 40 pound boxes from 5:30 to 8:30am, then delivering furniture until 5pm and then went to the gym after that. I did that for years on 1 or 2 meals a day! I was also smoking a pack a day and sometimes more ove rthe weekend.

I guess it depends on the person and age. The younger peoples bodies will with stand more abuse, while as you get odler it takes more of a toll.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 10:44 AM
Yes Swede I do understand that.

But I can say only one smoker I know/knew out of maybe 20(and more at one point) could be considered overweight.(of course this was years ago and people are getting more overweight everyday)

Age would certainly play a factor in that as you loose muscle as you get older as well.

But most of these guys smoked when they were younger and some were even very active physically. I remember lifting 40 pound boxes from 5:30 to 8:30am, then delivering furniture until 5pm and then went to the gym after that. I did that for years on 1 or 2 meals a day! I was also smoking a pack a day and sometimes more ove rthe weekend.

I guess it depends on the person and age. The younger peoples bodies will with stand more abuse, while as you get odler it takes more of a toll.

Actually, i'm looking for another reason, read what i wrote about caffeine above, i don't disagree with any of your points but there's also something to be said about you being able to stay at your weight DESPITE smoking.

I am looking at it from a strictly scientific viewpoint, most of all, i'm looking for anything scientific such as the study or another study like it.

LatsMakeTheMan
08-02-2005, 10:53 AM
I've got to think it's the lifestyle of the smoker that's got the biggest impact.

You don't usually see people who go to the gym regularly and watch what they eat smoking a pack of Newports every day.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 11:02 AM
I've got to think it's the lifestyle of the smoker that's got the biggest impact.

You don't usually see people who go to the gym regularly and watch what they eat smoking a pack of Newports every day.

There's a Ruhl video laying around on the pro forum, check it out. ;)

Generally i agree with you, but i'm not sure about this, for many a years we thought xanthines (caffeine theophylline and so on) were good choices for losing weight.

LatsMakeTheMan
08-02-2005, 11:09 AM
There's a Ruhl video laying around on the pro forum, check it out. ;)

Generally i agree with you, but i'm not sure about this, for many a years we thought xanthines (caffeine theophylline and so on) were good choices for losing weight.

Yea I've seen the Ruhl supermarket video.....but then, I never really considered pro bodybuilders to be a shining bastion of health:D

But it's true that the scientific evidence about caffine contradicts what I previously believed. I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the EC stack:)

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 11:16 AM
Yea I've seen the Ruhl supermarket video.....but then, I never really considered pro bodybuilders to be a shining bastion of health:D

But it's true that the scientific evidence about caffine contradicts what I previously believed. I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the EC stack:)

Ephedrine is kinda nice because it's not specific enough to shut down the T3 but what... i'll be making a post in SupplementScience about this by the end of this week, unfortunantly i was a bit premature before.

Excluding xanthines there are other worthwhile things to stack with Ephedrine though, yohimbine would be one of the better compounds.

sticklegs
08-02-2005, 11:22 AM
interesting. one thing i noticed is that all they are saying is that there is a correlation between smoking (1st or 2nd hand) and obesity, but it doesn't neccesarily prove that smoking will increase obesity. people who smoke don't care about their health as much, so they're more likely to be obese.

I agree. I have also seen studies that link low IQ to smoking, and being poor to smoking. I thing al the studies point to stupid people smoke (for the most part) and stupid people do stupid things.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 11:26 AM
I agree. I have also seen studies that link low IQ to smoking, and being poor to smoking. I thing al the studies point to stupid people smoke (for the most part) and stupid people do stupid things.

Ever seen anything about people being stupid in relation to drinking coffee?

Look, i probably posted this in the wrong forum because there is not one here who thinks that it may actually be as simple as cause and effect, yet generally that is what it comes down to.

JonZ
08-02-2005, 12:20 PM
"You don't usually see people who go to the gym regularly and watch what they eat smoking a pack of Newports every day."

You know, I never even felt the effects of smoking until I got a desk job.I always had physical jobs up until my late 20s - carpet and tile, delivered furniture and such and I never felt it. I used to go jogging, even trained for professional wrestling (I was suprised how many wrestler actually do smoke).

I did the 3 hour cybergenics routines and spending 2 or more hours in the gym wasnt uncommon (until I learned better)after a physical day of labor.(At the time I was smoking, I was also my strongest physically as I was able to bench about 370 pounds - eating 1 or 2 meals a day).

during that time, I exercised practically all day 5 days a week and I did watch what I ate.

It wasnt until I started sitting behind a desk all day that I began to FEEL the effects and decided to quit.

Alot of people simply consider smoking no worse than all the other stuff the human body has to deal with in todays world, like food with chemicals, hormones and steroids, the state of water and the air, inhaling car fumes, microwaves,etc.

I was talking about it with my brother (who still smokes)the other day and he just laughs when people say its bad for your health. He said sometime along the times of "Cancer is a epidemic now. Everyone is dying from cancer and not everyone getting it is a smoker or around smoke - its everything else we're being subjected to as well.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 12:36 PM
"You don't usually see people who go to the gym regularly and watch what they eat smoking a pack of Newports every day."

You know, I never even felt the effects of smoking until I got a desk job.I always had physical jobs up until my late 20s - carpet and tile, delivered furniture and such and I never felt it. I used to go jogging, even trained for professional wrestling (I was suprised how many wrestler actually do smoke).

I did the 3 hour cybergenics routines and spending 2 or more hours in the gym wasnt uncommon (until I learned better)after a physical day of labor.(At the time I was smoking, I was also my strongest physically as I was able to bench about 370 pounds - eating 1 or 2 meals a day).

during that time, I exercised practically all day 5 days a week and I did watch what I ate.

It wasnt until I started sitting behind a desk all day that I began to FEEL the effects and decided to quit.

Alot of people simply consider smoking no worse than all the other stuff the human body has to deal with in todays world, like food with chemicals, hormones and steroids, the state of water and the air, inhaling car fumes, microwaves,etc.

I was talking about it with my brother (who still smokes)the other day and he just laughs when people say its bad for your health. He said sometime along the times of "Cancer is a epidemic now. Everyone is dying from cancer and not everyone getting it is a smoker or around smoke - its everything else we're being subjected to as well.

He can tell my mom that, after he digs her up, she died from chronic obstructive lung disease, every doctor in the field would tell you she died from smoking.

My speciality is asthma and lung diseases (along with metabolic affects of various medications, but for another reason), you're going to tell me i'm wrong when i say that every smoker dies early because he smoked?

JonZ
08-02-2005, 12:52 PM
Not every but most. Probably a huge number like 90+%.

I think theres no way you can deny that it can end your life early. Again I think smoking affects people differently. My friends wife died of cancer at 30 -never smoked inher life. No one in her family smokes.

Meanwhile my friends grandfather is 96 and has been smoking since his teens!Both of my parents are closing in on their 70s and have been smoking since their teens.

It depends on the person.

I dont think anyone can argue that smoking is bad for you.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 01:05 PM
Not every but most. Probably a huge number like 90+%.

I think theres no way you can deny that it can end your life early. Again I think smoking affects people differently. My friends wife died of cancer at 30 -never smoked inher life. No one in her family smokes.

Meanwhile my friends grandfather is 96 and has been smoking since his teens!Both of my parents are closing in on their 70s and have been smoking since their teens.

It depends on the person.

I dont think anyone can argue that smoking is bad for you.

To be honest, 100% of smokers that are not victims of any accident die from smoking, they would have lived longer if they didn't smoke.

In ALL cases it ends your life early if you die of "age".

As a M.Sc i tell you this and every doctor you'll ever find will agree with that.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 01:06 PM
I dont think anyone can argue that smoking is bad for you.


i assume you left out a "not" in that sentence. ;)

rungrl
08-02-2005, 01:56 PM
I'm confused....are you trying to find a study that shows that caffeine/and or nicotine directly causes obesity?

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but I think it has been proven that caffeine and nicotine will most likely cause people to lose weight....strickly from a medical/scientific viewpoint.

These studies that may say caffeine and nicotine contribute to obesity don't take into consideration overall lifestyle.

Someone who leads an unhealthy lifestyle is much more likely to be overweight and is much more likely to smoke a couple packs of cigs a day and drink 10 cans of coke.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 02:03 PM
I'm confused....are you trying to find a study that shows that caffeine/and or nicotine directly causes obesity?

I'm not a doctor or a scientist, but I think it has been proven that caffeine and nicotine will most likely cause people to lose weight....strickly from a medical/scientific viewpoint.

These studies that may say caffeine and nicotine contribute to obesity don't take into consideration overall lifestyle.

Someone who leads an unhealthy lifestyle is much more likely to be overweight and is much more likely to smoke a couple packs of cigs a day and drink 10 cans of coke.

No, see, we know that caffeine by itself (like all xanthines) increases insulin resistance.

Considering that we now know that the major key to decrease obesity is to increase insulin sensitivity it would be interesting to know if nicotine shares that with the xanthines (like caffeine theophylline and so on), we KNOW that caffeine in the long run is detrimental to muscle growth and therefore increases body fat, that is not something we question regarding caffeine, the question would be, does nicotine have a similar function, i'd be fair to assume that the functions are related, especially since it's long known that nicotic acid does possess the same ability as caffeine to lower insulin sensitivity.

NuggzTheNinja
08-02-2005, 04:13 PM
I find this highly interesting since nicotine is known for increasing calorie expenditure.

Other things such as the xanthines have been used for fat loss while they are also known for increasing insulin resistance in skeletal muscle so in the long run things like caffeine will actually make you less musculare and more prone to gain fat, diabetics have known for ages that caffeine increases blood sugar. As we all know, coffe and a cigarette go hand in hand so this may be even worse.

I can't find a direct link to the study but i would be interested if anyone else can.

Great find bro.

I'm curious to see their methods.

I'm thinking there's a correlation between smokers and the "fast food lifestyle" that may be more of a factor in this than just the effect of smoke itself.

Then again, I'm a smoker so I'm always looking for ways out. :D

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 04:36 PM
Great find bro.

I'm curious to see their methods.

I'm thinking there's a correlation between smokers and the "fast food lifestyle" that may be more of a factor in this than just the effect of smoke itself.

Then again, I'm a smoker so I'm always looking for ways out. :D

Well, i'm using what us swedes call "snus" i believe it's called snuff in english grounded tobacco you put under your lip, so i am no angel.

I have heard loads of people getting bloated abs from smoking and an additional layer of intra abdominal fat from coffee, perhaps something to consider....

I'd give up the coffee before the nicotine though, you'll make your choices, just a tip.

NuggzTheNinja
08-02-2005, 08:07 PM
Well, i'm using what us swedes call "snus" i believe it's called snuff in english grounded tobacco you put under your lip, so i am no angel.

I have heard loads of people getting bloated abs from smoking and an additional layer of intra abdominal fat from coffee, perhaps something to consider....

I'd give up the coffee before the nicotine though, you'll make your choices, just a tip.

The bloated abs from those things is very interesting.

Mine are fine when they're tensed, but are terrible when relaxed. I thought it was because I had large organs.

It's been like that long before I took up smoking, though.

I think it might be from comparatively high GH production. Also have very large hands and feet for my size.

EDIT: I think we call it snuff formally, but in Philly, and other parts of the East coast I've been to, it's called "dip" :)

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 08:18 PM
The bloated abs from those things is very interesting.

Mine are fine when they're tensed, but are terrible when relaxed. I thought it was because I had large organs.

It's been like that long before I took up smoking, though.

I think it might be from comparatively high GH production. Also have very large hands and feet for my size.

EDIT: I think we call it snuff formally, but in Philly, and other parts of the East coast I've been to, it's called "dip" :)

Unless you've been doing somatropin then nah, natural gh has a tendencey of evening things out.

The most common reason is intra abdominal fat, caffeine will contribute to that so it might be wise to stop using it, you'll be in a pissy mood for a week or so but that is your choice alltogether, heh.

Well, quitting caffeine while doing what i told lats to do, you know, them abs, they are like any muscle group, 80/20 fast/slow, work them like you work your chest or quads.

.Kiw.Da.Wabbit.
08-02-2005, 08:23 PM
I could not imagine quitting caffiene, but I think you've got a point. It's something I believe to have noticed Does it have anything to do with it's diuretic properties? Can you actually drink more water to combat the retention?

Also, I've heard people say that we should stay away from dairy (which shoots eating cottage cheese all to hell), as it can cause flabby midsections as well. I don't think there is as much bearing to this, but with different people, you might get quite different bodily responses as well.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 08:26 PM
I could not imagine quitting caffiene, but I think you've got a point. It's something I believe to have noticed Does it have anything to do with it's diuretic properties? Can you actually drink more water to combat the retention?

Also, I've heard people say that we should stay away from dairy (which shoots eating cottage cheese all to hell), as it can cause flabby midsections as well. I don't think there is as much bearing to this, but with different people, you might get quite different bodily responses as well.

No, basically ALL xanthines, like caffeine, theophylline have the effects of raising blood glucose, that would probably be what leads to insulin resistance.

With caffeine (and other xanthines) this is known, you'll loose midsection weight if you stop using it.

user4165146510
08-02-2005, 10:16 PM
actually it curbs appetite.
lotta skinny girls smoke.

PowerSwede
08-02-2005, 10:21 PM
actually it curbs appetite.
lotta skinny girls smoke.

Thank you captain obvious, the question was in the long run and in general, not regarding your future stick figure projects.

CrispyBacon
08-02-2005, 10:58 PM
More propaganda for the smoking Nazis to feed on, ho-hum. Never mind the fact th whole second hand smoke scare is bull****.

[rispyBacon

l0s3r
08-02-2005, 11:12 PM
Great find, Swede. That's very odd, since every heavy smoker I've seen has a third-world country body and are pruny all over.

What other xanthines are out there other than caffiene?
I might reconsider taking my ECY stack.