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View Full Version : My first log - DS NHA Stack/Melting Point



Cliff19104
06-30-2005, 07:28 PM
I was concered about having my first post be a supplement review log. Also, the number of supplements I will be taking during this period makes it hard to tell what is causing the effects, but I hope this log will be useful nonetheless. I am mainly doing this log to get constructive feedback and to keep myself motivated.

Stats:

Height: 5'11"
Weight: 173-177 lbs. (depending on carb intake that day)
BF: 11-12% (I hope)

Training:

Sporadic training for different sports in high school. Got into lifting and eating right about a year and a half ago.

Starting a HST routine since I need a change from my push/pull split. Lifting full body 3 times a week. Cardio will be 3-4x a week on the eleptical machine or treadmill. For a change of pace, I swim for about 30-45 mins. once a week.

Diet:

Protien comes mainly from eggs, chicken, fish and the occasional BBQ with my roomates. Current protien powders are Substance WPI (Grape & Watermelon), Syntrax Nectar (Strawberry Kiwi), generic whey concentrate and isolate, and generic aussie cassienate protien (night-time). Carbs are mainly oats, spiach (my favorite vegetable), peas, broc****, whole wheat.

Current Supplements:
NAC
Milk Thistle
GNC Mega Man Multivitamin
Fish Oil
Flax Oil
Glucophase XR (1-2 caps a day)
Lean Extreme (3 caps a day - may need to adjust this downward if joints keep acting up)
Ergopharm AMP (took it once last week, will definately be using it again)

I am currently recovering from Trimax. During that time my calorie count was about 1,400. Currently, I am aiming for close to 2,000. I hope for the next 2 weeks to keep my weight steady and for my thyroid to recover. After that, I will probably drop calories to 1,700 and look for more fat loss. Hopefully, I will start August in the single digits.

Due to the fact that I do not have an unlimited supplement budget. I will be running a half dose of melting point for the next 2 weeks, then the full dose for 2 weeks after that (so I still have some left for a furture lean bulk).

I will be starting the NHA stack around July 13th or 14th and will run it until my 15-day supply of Activate runs out.

This weekend I will be participating in fourth of July celebrations and will not be strict with my diet. The updates to this log will be sporadic over the next week and then once I am taking the full MP dose and on the NHA stack, I will be updating more frequently. I will try to post pictures within the next week.

6/30 - 2 caps of Melting Point (just came in today!), feeling a little hot right now, might be a placebo effect. Approximate calories: 2,100

40-Yard Dash_2
07-01-2005, 07:42 AM
I've been waiting for the Melting Point logs to come rolling it, so I'm definitely subscribed to this one. Good luck!

krazykarl
07-01-2005, 07:43 AM
subscribed. good luck bro.

j_neatherlin
07-01-2005, 09:37 AM
awesome bro i'm looking forward to it.

definitely reconsider your caloric intake, though. IMO, 1400 calories during your trimax cut was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too low. Even 2000 for this cut is highly questionable. Starving yourself is not the way to go.

j_neatherlin
07-01-2005, 10:56 AM
also, if you can get before/after pictures and measurements (girth and skinfold) in order to really solidify the changes you were able to make for this log. they aren't necessary, but they are great for an overall, more objective evaluation.

Cliff19104
07-05-2005, 09:18 AM
From reading what other people have done for cutting, I assumed that I needed a lower calorie count due to the fact that I have less muscle mass than other people on the board. I do not feel that I could lose fat on a diet of 2,500-2,700 calories. In retrospect, it might have been too low b/c I lost a disproportionate amount of strength. I should also clarify on my background a little further.

I started this cut at about 215 pounds. My main goal after bulking up that far was to lose the fat that I had gained in the winter, even at the expense of some strength. Stregnth bests in Flat Dumbell Bench Press is 85 lbs for 5 reps. My Trimax numbers were down to 70 lbs for 4. I expected some strength loss due to the lack of muscle glycogen. I will be monitoring that in these first weeks to see if there is a rebound.

Anyway, my weekend with my parents went well, I had them take pictures which I am still waiting for to be emailed to me. The pictures were taken on July 3rd after refeeding for a good 2 days. If anybody has a better estimate of my bf%, please say so once I post the pictures.

I do not have calipers, I usually go by appearance in the mirror and by the way my pants fit around the waist. I am looking to get rid of the layer of fat around my abdomen that is making it hard to see my abs when unflexed. I feel that this is a fair evaluation due to the fact that I am attempting to lose fat post-Trimax (12 days). If I can do this, Melting Point will definately have lived up to the hype in my opinion.

Current Waist Measurement: 31.5"

kendog
07-05-2005, 10:58 AM
Yea with your stats 2000 is def too low for anything. Good luck with the log, I'm also really interested in this product.

j_neatherlin
07-05-2005, 04:01 PM
well, my "in shape weight" is under 170 and I still keep my calories generally between 2400 - 2600 during a cut. You may have kind of screwed yourself by dropping your cals so low...so you might have to really keep cals low in order to continue to lose weight. It's hard to say...but I wouldn't be surprised if your metabolism was wrecked.

Pictures would be a great way of keeping progress with your log as well as any other kinds of measurements.

Keep us posted!

highpower1111
07-05-2005, 05:28 PM
With a caloric intake that low, wouldn't it take much longer to recover from trimax, i would be your thyrpid was quite suppressed with that few of calroies. How much muscle did you lose with that cut?


btw i noticed some 7-cort really helped me keep from putting on fat after atrimax cycle, LX would be good too.

Robboe
07-06-2005, 04:17 AM
Agreed about the calories.

Good stuff.

Cliff19104
07-07-2005, 09:41 AM
OK, I will add more calories on days when I workout.

July 5th - 2,100 calories

July 6th - OK workout yesterday, this was my first one doing full body instead of a split routine. 2,500 calories, Weight: 178

The calorie count for the trimax cycle was 1,400, but including cheat days it was proabably an average calorie count of 1,700-1,800. I did lose a lot of strength, but I am willing to take the lost muscle in order to get rid of this extra bodyfat. At this point, I just hope not lose more strength, maintain my weight for a week and then continue cutting at 2,000-2,200 calories a day. I do not want to drastically bump up calories and put weight back on.

Cliff19104
07-10-2005, 07:23 AM
July 7th - 1,600 calories

July 8th - 1,700 calories

July 9th, cheat day - 3,500 calories

Here are two pictures, one of the front with my abs unflexed and the second of the side. If anybody could give an estimation of of bf%, that would be very helpful. Pictures were taken on July 3rd.

I will be starting Rebound today and Activate tomorrow.

j_neatherlin
07-11-2005, 08:02 AM
lookin forward to seeing how all of this turns out for you. i know you'll only be running the Activate for about 2 weeks...but how long do you intend to run the MP all together?

I am not good at guessing bodyfat %'s...so, I'm no help to you there. You look like you're in relatively good shape, though.

I know that you've said that you're willing to sacrifice some muscle in order to lose the extra fat, but in all honesty bro, you're setting yourself up for failure in the future if you lose too much muscle. especially if you're a competitive athlete.

Cliff19104
07-12-2005, 09:22 AM
lookin forward to seeing how all of this turns out for you. i know you'll only be running the Activate for about 2 weeks...but how long do you intend to run the MP all together?

I am not good at guessing bodyfat %'s...so, I'm no help to you there. You look like you're in relatively good shape, though.

I know that you've said that you're willing to sacrifice some muscle in order to lose the extra fat, but in all honesty bro, you're setting yourself up for failure in the future if you lose too much muscle. especially if you're a competitive athlete.

I plan on running MP for my cutter until the end of July, then continuing MP at half dose for a VERY lean bulk in August. During this bulk I will be looking for strength gains mostly, with some gains in muscle and no water retention. For the bulk, I plan to run a combination of some of the following supps that I have on hand: Superdrol, 4AD, Ergomax LMG, Dominator, Max LMG, Prostazanol or possible of Phera-Plex.

As far as the muscle vs. fat issue, j_neatherlin. I find your reasoning sound just like the rest of what I have read from you on this board and at AM. I am aware that muscle carries metabolism boosting properties, but I am asserting that when cutting there is still a tradeoff. If I lose 2-3 pounds of muscle while losing 10 pounds of fat, this is preferable to losing less than 5 pounds of fat with no muscle loss. I see a lot of cutting logs where the stated goal is to become ripped while having no muscle loss or to gain strength. So, the point I am making is that right now I am primarily in CUT mode, although I want to keep as much muscle as possible.

On another note, I feel like Lean Extreme has made a big contribution to my recovery from Trimax. I weighed in 176 yesterday, right now I am almost 3 weeks post-Trimax and I feel like my metabolism is running at normal pace.

July 10th - 1,700 calories

July 11th - 2,400 calories, Good workout today.

July 12th - 1,700 calories

Cliff19104
07-15-2005, 01:06 PM
July 13th - 2,500 calories

July 14th - 1,400 calories

Weight 175. It's hard to tell what is going on at this point. My weight seems to be going in a downward direction and I seem to be getting slightly leaner with a better view of my abs. However, my wieght fluctutates so I am not sure that I am losing fat. My strength is holding steady, and I am getting 1-2 more reps on each excercise since I started the log, so I do not believe that I am losing muscle mass at this point.

Next week I will be upping to the full dose. I have also decided to add Seasthin, for health reasons. I will be lowering my dose of both Rebound (to one cap a day) and Lean Xtreme.

I have been taking melting point at a low dose for 2 weeks, so I expect that since it is already in my system, the next weeks should show more concrete results.

Robboe
07-16-2005, 04:02 AM
If your weight fluctuates, then reduce your amount of weigh-ins to 1-2 times per week.

Cliff19104
07-22-2005, 11:49 AM
Not too much more to report. I'm possibly noticing body composition changes. Weight is about the same as is strength.

Cliff19104
07-25-2005, 10:06 AM
Current Weight is has been steady at 174-175. There could be some body composition changes, which I would attribute to NHA (Rebound + Activate). However with all these proven supplements in my arsenal (Glucophase & LX), if melting point was to live up to the hype I would expect a couple pounds more of a decrease in weight. Strenght is still steady with a few marginal increases in reps.

My calories have been a little higher last week than planned, probably averaging about 2,300-2,500 a day. Keeping calories down has been difficult to to the hunger that I feel. Some have reported incresed hunger from melting point, it is also possible that the incresed free test from Activate has caused my body to need a higher calorie intake? I think its possible.

Many people are upping their dose, but I really don't see the point of testing something at twice or triple the dose, especially since I am of average size. I am starting week 4 and will remain at 4 caps a day.

I hope there is a buildup effect as far as Melting Point is concerned and that I can drop about 2 pounds of fat this week. In August, I plan to reduce my Melting Point dosage again to 2 caps and do a lean bulk. Right now, I'm leaning towards Phera-Plex followed by Superdrol and Prostanzanol. I will try to get a camera towards the end of the week an post photos. Even if Melting Point doesn't make a dramatic effect on my cut, if I can get leaner while still adding muscle, I would consider Melting Point worth the money.

Cliff19104
07-29-2005, 10:54 AM
I've been on Melting Point (at a low dose) for 4 weeks. Final weight is 173. I am definately leaner and more vascular then before. Viens in my lean areas (arms, forearms, calves) having been appearing. My waist is about 30.5-.75 inches at the moment.

The fact that I was post-Trimax may have hindered how well I could cut. My strength is the same if not better, which I attribute the the NHA Stack, particularly Activate which I would probably run again.

As for Melting Point, it may be effective for keeping off fat at a low dose, but the most powerful effects must be either lagging and need to be run longer or dose dependent. With the beta run prices averaging $60 a bottle, 8 cap double dosing would be $120 a month. For $120, I think I could figure out a better cutting stack.

Also, I think Melting Point may be responsible for the ravenous hunger I have been feeling. My calories have been up in the area of 2400, which is much higher than before. Still, I have felt like I am constantly fighting off hunger.

I read BodyWizard's results over on AM, which were more dramatic than mine. It makes me wonder if Melting Point is better suited to somebody closer to 20% bf to make a quick jump down to 15% then it is to help somebody that is 10% try to lose those final pounds.

Cliff19104
07-29-2005, 11:20 AM
The second part of my log (or possibly I will create a new log), will be a lean bulk. I am looking for advice on how I should procede.

On hand:

**** Dominator (NO added Ergomax)
Ergomax LMG
Max LMG
Prostanzanol
Superdrol
Will be buying Phera-Plex with store credit once the store stocks it, I plan to replace Ergomax with it once it is shipped to me. Since Ergomax is 2-ene & 3-ene, this should not disrupt anything dropping the 3-ene and since this is a methyl I prefer more results if it will do the same damage.

4AD


The plan:

Week 1: Ergomax LMG - 20 mg
Week 2: Phera-Plex - 20 mg
Week 3: Phera-Plex 10 mg, Superdrol 10 mg, Prostanzanol 50 mg
Week 4: Superdrol 20 mg, Prostanzanol 75 mg
Week 5: Prostanzanol 100 mg
Week 6: Prostanzanol 100 mg

My goal here is to see strength gains, hardness and possible some continued fat loss (still running Melting Point at half dose, 2 a day) in the first 2 weeks. The second 2 weeks I want to see some gains in lean muscle without gaining around the waistline and then the last two weeks I am looking to solidify those mass and strength gains with Prostanzanol kicking in. If I gain too much fat in the first 4 weeks, I may escalate the Melting Point dosage. PCT will consist of either Nolva or Clomid, liver protection supps are already part of my regimen.

What I want to ask is if Max LMG or 4AD would be of any use?

Max LMG may help with nutrient partitioning, which may keep me from gaining fat in the first 4 weeks and it isn't methylated. I am concerned about the side effects, which would make me want to err on the side of a lower dose (50 mg). Also, in a stack that is so powerful on paper, it is questionable whether the increased results are worth the risk of sides.

4AD I am thinking about running at a low dose (200mg) just because it is on hand and transdermal. I do not want to gain a lot of water, but Superdrol and Prostanzanol might counter that by the time it kicks in. Also, it may increase the androgenic sides of Phera-Plex/Ergomax.

I think without them this stack has a lot of potential, but I would like to know if either one could be of a significant benefit.

I had blood drawn on Monday of this week, and am still waiting for the results to post. I wanted to check test, free test, estrogen, and thyroid levels; but insurance won't cover expensive hormone tests. Once I get the results on my liver function, I will be ready to start.

Cliff19104
07-29-2005, 12:51 PM
Blood work just got faxed to me, most of the values were normal. The high points were the main indicators of liver function (AST & ALT):

AST 24 (17-59)
ALT 41 (21-72)
Creatinine 1.0 (.8-1.3)
Calcium 9.3 (8.5-10.5)
Total Protein 7.1 (6.1-8.5)
Albumin 4.1 (3.5-5.8)
Alkaline Phosphate 95 (35-125)
Total Bilirubin .1 (0.0-1.2)
Urea Nitrogen BUN 23 (10-20)
Cholesterol 107 (<200)

I assume the elevated BUN was from not fasting the morning of the test, excericising the day before and my high protein diet. All of these things can contribute to this and it is also not far out of the normal range.


I will try to get a hold of a camera this weekend and take new photos, I will be starting on Sunday now that my blood work is in.

Cliff19104
08-02-2005, 09:52 AM
Huge refeed this weekend, along with some not so clean foods. Weight jumped up to 180. Started Dominator (Ergomax LMG) on Sunday. I consider the increase in weight a good thing since my glycogen stores are full and I am carrying a good amount of water. From here, any gains should be purely muscle. Still trying to corrow a digital camera or figure out a way to fix the issues with my own. I have one more HST-style workout on Wednesday, then I will be switching back to a push/pull split since I really hate doing HST.

Cliff19104
08-08-2005, 09:25 AM
The Dominator is definately legit. Weight is up to 190, vascularity is just as apparent if not more than last week. Endurance is increasing and time between sets is going down. Waist size seems to have gone up a little though, but I think that I am experiencing some bloat. Has anybody else seen this with Ergomax LMG?

Cliff19104
08-10-2005, 10:25 AM
Weighed in at 193. Happy to see the increase but concerned that this bulk may not be so lean. The waist hasn't gone up too much, but ab visibility is poor. I am looking forward to next week when I will start taking Prostanzanol, hopefully my body will dry out.

On another issue, the pumps/cramps in my calf are unreal. After walking about half a mile my calf starts feeling really tight and pumped. The reason why couyld be many things: the fact that Dominator has L-Norvaline added to the 2-ene/3-ene matrix, others have reported cramping from Melting Point (although I am using a very low dose) or it may be these two things working synergistically with Seasthin. I am taking DHB each morning, which I feel amplifying the effects and the gains to a huge degree.

I will keep everyone updated on how its going, and try to take a midway picture.

Cliff19104
08-15-2005, 01:08 PM
Weight is up to 197. Took a picture on Saturday, but am currently missing the USB cord for my digital camera. Will try to find it or use one of those Pharmacy digital photo centers. Energy is great, skin is oily but acne is in check. Added Prostanzonol on Sunday in hopes of drying things up and ordered more Melting Point so I can up the dose over the next 3 weeks. I have added all the weight that I really care for, so I will try to maintain size, increase strength and get cut. My waist is now at 32", but considering the amount of weight I have put on, the low dose of Melting Point has helped me keep off the fat while bulking.

Cliff19104
08-22-2005, 09:41 AM
Huge strength and endurance increases. Haven't weighed myself in a few days, but I am definately slightly over 200. In summary, this is my 6th week on MP, 4th on Ergomax, 2nd on Superdrol and Prostanzanol. The sides have hit me. Some lethargy, especially this last weekend. Cramping has gone down, but sweating a night is making it harder to fall asleep (I need a better AC unit).

At this point I am unsure where to go from here, I am very pleased with my size and want to maintain my gains, but I would like to be leaner. On sunday I upped the MP to 4 a day. I will probably keep calories constant at about 3,500 and keep upping the dose of MP until the weight gain stops. There will be pics, I promise.