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arlowf
06-05-2005, 08:08 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts on what the effects would be of really high doses of Ephedrine? NOT EC, just E. I would like to try getting that much in one day; and being very careful not to take any other stims.

Surfninja311
06-05-2005, 08:14 PM
do yourself a favor and stick to around 75mgs. 200 is WAY overboard.

Atheist_Prophet
06-05-2005, 08:14 PM
Hrm, I would not recomend it.

You will be flaking big time.

I would suggest taking no more than 125g over the whole day and that is really not very bright :D

arlowf
06-05-2005, 08:18 PM
But where is the reasoning. I don't see why I couldn't superdose just the E, split into 50mg X 4. As long I am careful not to touch any stims, I don't see the problem here.

nni
06-05-2005, 08:20 PM
But where is the reasoning. I don't see why I couldn't superdose just the E, split into 50mg X 4. As long I am careful not to touch any stims, I don't see the problem here.

ive read in MANY places taking over 100mg of ephedra in a day is very dangerous.

epecially at age 18, you would end up just another statistic. and at your low bf% why on earth would even want to take that much?

arlowf
06-05-2005, 08:24 PM
ive read in MANY places taking over 100mg of ephedra in a day is very dangerous.

epecially at age 18, you would end up just another statistic. and at your low bf% why on earth would even want to take that much?

No, you have read many places that taking more than 100mg of EPHEDRINE a day in the EC stack would be dangerous. I don't see where the problem with high dose E lies.

On a side note, I am arguing to learn. I want some answers, please don't take this as ignorance.

dilatedmind
06-05-2005, 08:25 PM
if you read up on erowid there are experiences of people taking 150mg and over at once. Definatly not a pleasent experience for them, but im sure if they can live through that then 50mg 4 times a day isnt going to kill you.

Atheist_Prophet
06-05-2005, 08:26 PM
On the box of bolt ephedrine it says a child can have upto 150mg per day

arlowf
06-05-2005, 08:29 PM
On the back of my box of ephedrine, it says not to exceed 12 doses in a twenyty four hour period.... which means no more than 150mg..... :) good stuff.

armz_ha
06-05-2005, 08:32 PM
stick to 60-100mgs of ephedra per day. no need for more.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 08:34 PM
stick to 60-100mgs of ephedra per day. no need for more.

Right... I'll be doing 175mg tommorow, and I'll being taking nothing to "amp" its effects, so no caffeine or anything else. Just a multi, fish oil, ginko biloboa, and junk like that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes guys.

Immichaelski
06-05-2005, 08:54 PM
kiss your sex drive good by and you may even die like a few of those football players did. Not smart. I have big time troubles urinating on that stuff and once thought i may have to go to the hospital. be careful.

htxRed
06-05-2005, 09:00 PM
i wish i was in the same room as you so i could slap you up side the head and ask you what the hell are you thinkin...

juiceisub3r
06-05-2005, 09:12 PM
I have big time troubles urinating on that stuff and once thought i may have to go to the hospital. be careful.

really? i can't stop....of course, im drinking water like someones paying me

MuZI
06-05-2005, 09:17 PM
Why are you doing this? Did i miss the reason?

TanTheMan
06-05-2005, 09:28 PM
Right... I'll be doing 175mg tommorow, and I'll being taking nothing to "amp" its effects, so no caffeine or anything else. Just a multi, fish oil, ginko biloboa, and junk like that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes guys.

Hmmm, perhaps, do you know what ginko biloboa is used for. well in short im sure you know, but it increases blood flow to the brain, 'improving memory'. Do you know what caffine does to the brain? it opens the capularies to allow greater blood flow (while doing other things mind you.). So in theory, more ephedrine will get to the brain faster and in large amount. Almost as it would with caffeine...

Obviously you are not going to listen to anyone, which makes me wonder why you asked in the first place...

Be ware that ephedrine is a powerful stimulant, overdosing it can be dangerous. Kinda like with meth (which btw is made from ephedrine..)

So in short: youll likely get the same effects as you would with caffine (in theory) and will be subjecting your brain to a massive amount of stimulants.

Be careful. don't give the FDA any more reason to ban these products..

Cheers

m3ds
06-05-2005, 09:36 PM
People like you are the reason this ****'s banned. What's even the point of taking so much ephedra? It's not good on your heart, I'd be willing to bet that you're going to die (not really something to joke about, but sadly I'm not joking). Why push something as dangerous as Ephedra? You're just asking for something bad to happen.

TanTheMan
06-05-2005, 09:39 PM
People like you are the reason this ****'s banned. What's even the point of taking so much ephedra? It's not good on your heart, I'd be willing to bet that you're going to die (not really something to joke about, but sadly I'm not joking). Why push something as dangerous as Ephedra? You're just asking for something bad to happen.

well he isn't using ephedra, he is using ephedrine hcl. 175mg of Ephedra would be signifficantly less dangerous (like 20mg ephedrine in the 175mg ephedra)

MrDreamWeaver
06-05-2005, 09:40 PM
Right... I'll be doing 175mg tommorow, and I'll being taking nothing to "amp" its effects, so no caffeine or anything else. Just a multi, fish oil, ginko biloboa, and junk like that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes guys.
Go for it BRA!!! Report back to us when you're DEAD.

Fool.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 09:55 PM
I just read six mindless posts (accepty for the one about ginko.... :( )
Anyway, no one gave me any good reasons why it was a bad idea, everyone instead chose to tell me how "dead" I would be. Notice that everyone is shying away from the fact that the back of the box says its okay to take 150mg if you are a CHILD? Hmmm... Anybody ever actually tried this? or is everyone just spouting "save the child" BS?

arlowf
06-05-2005, 10:00 PM
This board sssssoooo lacks in stimulating arguments/discussions. I love avant; where a thread like this might have a few on each side, either against or for taking this much ephedrine, but each side would have
"thought out" purpose/points to their replies/posts.

TanTheMan
06-05-2005, 10:02 PM
but each side would have
"thought out" purpose/points to their replies/posts.

hmm, i thought mine was 'thought out', guess not. ohwell.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 10:05 PM
Yours was thought out guy, thats why I enjoyed your counter-reply about the ginko. Reps for you. :)

MuZI
06-05-2005, 10:06 PM
Post the reason you want to do this..

Bourbon
06-05-2005, 10:07 PM
http://www.sosu.edu/studenthealth/ephedrine.htm

I submit to you this article. Whether it will make everything clear is up to you. I'm neither saying yes or no to what you are doing, just giving you information.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 10:12 PM
Good question. There are many "reasons".

Here's a few that I can explain/think of:

First, I want to test out a new idea for the rest of the board. This board loves reviews/logs, and this is a way for me to do one for everybody that is atleast slightly interesting, and it won't hurt my wallet.

Second, experimentation. Hell, gotta try it. I have thought it through, and I don't see a downside. Unless I die. :) Not likely, seeing as even the back of the box says its okay. I must know!!! What if it turns out to be great like the whole MegaDosed BCAA idea??!?! Gotta learn.

Third, ephedrine supposedly has a positive effect on protein synthesis (I think thats what Loki said :) ). So if I mega dose it and go workout and have great pumps/recovery/gains/fatloss/grow horns/whatever, it could lead to more interesting experimentation.

You guys just wish you though of it first :P j/k.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 10:16 PM
http://www.sosu.edu/studenthealth/ephedrine.htm

I submit to you this article. Whether it will make everything clear is up to you. I'm neither saying yes or no to what you are doing, just giving you information.


I read the whole article, and COME ON! If you are against what I'm doing, which I realise you didn't actually say you were, then you need to reread that article. It's propaganda. Reminds me of a CBS special that tells of the dangers of kids on supplements. Hell, at the bottom they are even against the use of CREATINE! WTF? They said that there has not been enough research... Give me a break.

BringnIt
06-05-2005, 10:39 PM
My biggest theoretical concerns:

-Ephedrine acts by stimulating the release of noradrenaline, which puts your body in "fight-or-flight" mode, a stress reaction. This is what causes elevated heart rate, etc. Too much could definitely have POTENTIAL side-effects, ranging from a very unpleasant experience to the aforementioned death.

-Your body only has so much noradrenaline, by mega-dosing ephedine it is entirely likely that you will be burnt out.

Those are my two largest concerns (in regards to short-term use). If you try this, survive, and like the feeling, and continue to do it long-term, you go from potential short-term risks to definite long-term risks.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 10:43 PM
BringNit, I respect your post, so I'm going to listen (::: people gasp ::: ).

So, I won't do the 200mg tommorow. But, are you saying your not atleast a little interested in the effects of heavy-alone ephedrine dosing? Where should I draw the line (in terms of mg). If you say 75mg, pooee on you. :) The effects of that aren't going to be anything new. No learning. :)

BringnIt
06-05-2005, 10:46 PM
Gradually up your dosage, you know your body and its reactions to ephedrine better than I do. Supplementing with tyrosine can also help prevent the "burn-out" I mentioned was a possibility.

arlowf
06-05-2005, 10:56 PM
But gradually uping my dosage sounds more like a plan to find my "EC harmony". The point of doing all this craziness in the first place is to use a substancially higher dose of E than most use, but without the C. I want to find out if there are any benefits to E alone if you take more than 75mg a day. I realise quite well that I would probably kill myself if I took caffeine with these kinds of dosages of E.

And I though tyrosine was for when you were coming OFF of the EC stack and wanted to have a milder, less CNS antagonizing supplement that would still give you a kick. Didn't I read somewhere that taking tyrosine and E together was a BAD idea, or was that different amino?

libremag
06-05-2005, 11:13 PM
One time, I took 125 mg during day and I was doing cartwheels into the night. Praise the Lord.

MrDreamWeaver
06-05-2005, 11:32 PM
This board sssssoooo lacks in stimulating arguments/discussions. I love avant; where a thread like this might have a few on each side, either against or for taking this much ephedrine, but each side would have
"thought out" purpose/points to their replies/posts.

Obviously you haven't done YOUR research. Instead of rudely asking to be spoon-fed abstract details on ephedrine safety and concerns, why don't you go out on a limb and do some research for yourself. Finally, bashing the forum for your own ignorance is pathetic in itself. Stop whining like a little girl and head over to avantlabs if you so please. Believe me, nobody is stopping you.

I've decided to back up my personal claim, as rudely requested. Ephedrine is a beta-adrenergic agonist, meaning it increases blood pressure and body temperature. Taking mega-doses of the drug seems simply obviously foolish.

CanadaBBOY
06-06-2005, 12:03 AM
"Some research has shown that the anti obesity effects of ephedrine are not significant unless caffeine is used in conjunction with ephedrine.17 In fact, most studies exploring the thermogenic effects of ephedrine also look at caffeine as a synergist. In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by a calorie restricted diet and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20 mg), caffeine (200 mg) or placebo three times a day for 24 weeks. Average weight loss was significantly greater with the combination than with placebo from week 8 to week 24. Weight loss in both the ephedrine only and the caffeine only groups was similar to that of the placebo group. The authors conclude that the effect of either caffeine or ephedrine alone is ineffective in inducing significant weight loss.18,19 Not only is it necessary to combine ephedrine and caffeine to elicit a significant fat burning effect, the two compounds exhibit synergistic effects in certain ratios. By comparing different ratios of ephedrine and caffeine, it was found that 20 mg of ephedrine and 200 mg of caffeine exhibited a supra additive or synergistic effect while no other ratio did.20 This means that ephedrine and caffeine taken in a 1:10 ratio (20 mg ephedrine : 200 mg caffeine) creates effects greater than the sum of the two drugs added together. In other words, 2 + 2 = 5 in this ratio!"


Snap out of that stupid more is better attitude. The reason why you don't want to take that much ephedrine i because it is useless. Lipolysis is increased by ephedrine, and various enzymes are inhibited by aspirin and caffein (so some say). They work synergystically to increase lypolysis and combined with exercise will help with fat loss and help prevent muscle loss to a certaine extent.

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 05:35 AM
But where is the reasoning....

The reasoning is that MORE is not necessarily better. If taking STANDALONE, I wouldn't exceed the dosage on the bottle, which is "Do not exceed 6 pills within 24 hours".

That would be 150mg.


Didn't I read somewhere that taking tyrosine and E together was a BAD idea, or was that different amino?

It's a bad idea if you're an idiot... j/k.. tyrosine potentiates the effects of the E


It just makes sense to use it to potentiate stimulants, or when dieting.

L-tyrosine is the precursor to DOPA, which is the precursor to dopamine. Dopamine then gets hydroxylated into norepinephrine/noradrenaline.

So by taking tyrosine you just ensure ample catecholamine substrate. It's not going to improve performance by itself, but if you take it with an adrenergic stimulant, it most definitely will.



okay, so synephrine = alpha1 agonism = potentiation of stimulants/opiates

tryosine = precursor to norepinephrine = more basal NE synthesis from E

ALCAR = modulates dopaminergic tone

nni
06-06-2005, 06:15 AM
ephedrine is a non specific beta antagonist, meaning it affects your beta one two and three receptors. your beta 3 receptor is linked to fat loss, but your beta one receptor is linked to heart rate and blood pressure. one of the negative aspects of ephedra is that it does not target the beta 3 receptors, but instead hits them all. if you overdose, one, it may not necessarily add to more fat burning (which you DON'T need at your bf%) but two, you will be significantly raising your heart rate and blood pressure. obviously you are in a workout regimine, and high doses of E are not recommended on cardio days because of the heart rate increase, so mega dosing E would only suggest that your heart rate/blood pressure would rise to the point that working out would be dangerous. this is just what is implied, your right i have no proof. info about the beta receptors and ephedra can be found on pubmed, but it just isnt smart. it has nothing to do with stacking it with caffeine, that much ephedra by itself is just silly.

also at 6-7% bf, WHY ARE YOU TAKING EPHEDRA????? unless you are cutting down to 4-5% you don't really need it, especially at such high doses. if you are taking it for protein synthesis, why not just take x-factor, or leptigen? they are much safer, and much more effective for the purpose you are looking at. plus i dont know where you live, but this "experiment" in the beginning of the summer (its 85 here today) is even more dangerous with respect to heat stroke.

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 06:19 AM
ephedrine is a non specific beta antagonist, meaning it affects your beta one two and three receptors. your beta 3 receptor is linked to fat loss, but your beta one receptor is linked to heart rate and blood pressure. one of the negative aspects of ephedra is that it does not target the beta 3 receptors, but instead hits them all. if you overdose, one, it may not necessarily add to more fat burning (which you DON'T need at your bf%) but two, you will be significantly raising your heart rate and blood pressure. obviously you are in a workout regimine, and high doses of E are not recommended on cardio days because of the heart rate increase, so mega dosing E would only suggest that your heart rate/blood pressure would rise to the point that working out would be dangerous. this is just what is implied, your right i have no proof. info about the beta receptors and ephedra can be found on pubmed, but it just isnt smart. it has nothing to do with stacking it with caffeine, that much ephedra by itself is just silly.

also at 6-7% bf, WHY ARE YOU TAKING EPHEDRA????? unless you are cutting down to 4-5% you don't really need it, especially at such high doses. if you are taking it for protein synthesis, why not just take x-factor, or leptigen? they are much safer, and much more effective for the purpose you are looking at. plus i dont know where you live, but this "experiment" in the beginning of the summer (its 85 here today) is even more dangerous with respect to heat stroke.

nni, let's not confuse Ephedra with Ephedrine HCL... ;)

nni
06-06-2005, 06:22 AM
nni, let's not confuse Ephedra with Ephedrine HCL... ;)

well to me knowldege the only difference is that ephedra is herbal with several active aspects of it, the most potent being the ephedrine, and ephedrine hcl is the lab generated form of that extract???

i was referring to the hcl version, not the herbal version.

taking 200 mg of herbal wouldnt be all that bad (depending on the amount of ephedrine), but the hcl would be very dangerous.

am i wrong?

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 06:24 AM
well to me knowldege the only difference is that ephedra is herbal with several active aspects of it, the most potent being the ephedrine, and ephedrine hcl is the lab generated form of that extract???

i was referring to the hcl version, not the herbal version.

taking 200 mg of herbal wouldnt be all that bad (depending on the amount of ephedrine), but the hcl would be very dangerous.

am i wrong?

http://www.getdiesel.net/articles/mahuang.htm

nni
06-06-2005, 06:27 AM
http://www.getdiesel.net/articles/mahuang.htm

so basically, i was correct, epehdrine is just part of herbal ephedra. we should speak to each other through links from now on ;)

my whole post was referring to the hcl form.

ironLifeBG
06-06-2005, 06:39 AM
200mg of ephedrine is alot dude, don't bother taking that much per day, all your doing is wasting your money and giving ppl at the FDA reasons to re ban it.

60-75 mg a day tops is all you need but at such a low bf % (7-8) its not really going to help you anyways, i don't know how much lower you can sustain well trying to work, exercise and be active without endangering yourself.

bigblank69
06-06-2005, 07:45 AM
200 mgs a day has been done... and people have DIED from it. Don't be a dumbass and confuse the safety of BCAA's and Ephedrine. And stop trying to be a hero here and find some brilliant way of doing ephedrine. Ephedrine has been around since you were in diapers, and if there was a innovative way to take it, it would have been FOUND by now. All your going to do is kill yourself because you think that you're smarter then you actually are.

Man, I_m Big
06-06-2005, 07:47 AM
I got a buddy who's a Portugese Soccer stud, he uses like 150 mgs a day. he takes them before bed even. He's at like 3% BF so I don't say ****, but he's gonna mess himself up.

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 07:49 AM
He maintains 3% body fat? :rolleyes:

Man, I_m Big
06-06-2005, 07:55 AM
He maintains 3% body fat? :rolleyes:



Yeah roll your little eyes. Because it's sooooo hard for a soccer player to be lean when using ephedrine. Who is this guy?

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 08:03 AM
Lean does not equate to 3% body fat.

Man, I_m Big
06-06-2005, 08:12 AM
Hater?

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 08:15 AM
Yes, that's it.

Man, I_m Big
06-06-2005, 08:19 AM
Yes, that's it.

cool, man

BMA1078
06-06-2005, 08:19 AM
I got a buddy who's a Portugese Soccer stud, he uses like 150 mgs a day. he takes them before bed even. He's at like 3% BF so I don't say ****, but he's gonna mess himself up.


Yeah, maybe he'll overdose and die, thus causing Ephedrine to be pulled from the shelves. Tell your "stud" I said thanks in advance before he keels over.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:24 AM
Obviously the deciding factor whether this was stupid to try or not will be the results AFTER I have done it.
I'm stopping at 150mg, regardless of what the box says. I will not be taking anything except a multi and whey protein, and BCAA's.
Now, even if everything goes well today, there is always the day after: withdraw symptoms.
NO MATTER WHAT this winds up doing, I already have a few rules. One, I am only going to do this at most once every month/month and a half. So one crazy day every 30-45 days should not kill me. I plan on taking my first dose AFTER my morning cardio (5:45 PM). I am not doing this specifically for fat loss. There are many effects which could come from High E including: fatloss, positive repartitioning, focus, energy (cartwheels), anger, pump, penis could disappear, death, hell, maybe even muscle recovery (doubt it, but the partitioning while supplementing whey and BCAA's......) I will be lifting at about 6:00 PM, I hope to have a really good lifting experience (double meaning :) ).

Oh, and if I die, I promise not to tell anyone or send a letter to the FDA complaining.... I'll just leave an open bottle of PumpTech next to my body.

nni
06-06-2005, 08:29 AM
this is still just a useless experiment.

its like saying i know overdosing on cocaine will kill me. but i will only overdose once a month to test out the effects.

do what you want, but you will not get anyone to back taking that much as can be seen. i don't even understand what you expect to gain from this expecially being as all of the positive effects you are looking for can be gained in a much safer and more effective way with other products.

it seems you have your mind set on this no matter what the logic/facts say otherwise. good luck on your scientific experiment of uselessness.

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 08:29 AM
one crazy day every 30-45 days

I just don't see the point of this... AT ALL.

nni
06-06-2005, 08:33 AM
I just don't see the point of this... AT ALL.

if you read one of his posts, he seems to think that the caffeine is the dangerous additive.

"I realise quite well that I would probably kill myself if I took caffeine with these kinds of dosages of E."

i honestly dont think he truly understands how ephedra works, otherwise who would want to mess with their heart that much?!?!?!?

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:36 AM
Good question. There are many "reasons".

Here's a few that I can explain/think of:

First, I want to test out a new idea for the rest of the board. This board loves reviews/logs, and this is a way for me to do one for everybody that is atleast slightly interesting, and it won't hurt my wallet.

Second, experimentation. Hell, gotta try it. I have thought it through, and I don't see a downside. Unless I die. :) Not likely, seeing as even the back of the box says its okay. I must know!!! What if it turns out to be great like the whole MegaDosed BCAA idea??!?! (not likely) Gotta learn.

Third, ephedrine supposedly has a positive effect on protein synthesis (I think thats what Loki said :) ). So if I mega dose it and go workout and have great pumps/recovery/gains/fatloss/grow horns/whatever, it could lead to more interesting experimentation.

You guys just wish you though of it first :P j/k.


A few reasons. Remember, I would never do this with C or anything else. I am "merely" following the directions on the back of my box of Primatene tabs... "Do not Exceed 12 dosages in a twenty four hour period".... 12 X 12.5 = 150mg. And thats for children. I'm not going to exceed 150mg.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:38 AM
I'll report back at midnight. Thanks to everyone who posted replies. Love to argue... :) (Read my sig).

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 08:42 AM
I understand that you won't be exceeding the recommended dosage on the package... but:

Primatene tabs
At 12 pills per day, you'll be consuming 2400mg of Guaifenesin, which is just ridiculous.

What is guaifenesin?

Guaifenesin is an expectorant. Guaifenesin loosens phlegm and increases the lubrication of your lungs allowing for a productive cough and decreased chest congestion.

Guaifenesin is used to reduce chest congestion caused by the common cold, infections, or allergies.

Guaifenesin may also be used for purposes other than those listed in this medication guide.

What should I discuss with my healthcare provider before taking guaifenesin?

Talk to your doctor before taking guaifenesin if you have other medical conditions or if you take other medicines.

Guaifenesin is in the FDA pregnancy category C. This means that it is not known whether guaifenesin will harm an unborn baby. Do not take this medication without first talking to your doctor if you are pregnant.

It is also not known whether guaifenesin passes into breast milk. Do not take this medication without first talking to your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.

Guaifenesin has not been approved by the FDA for use by children younger than 2 years of age.

How should I take guaifenesin?

Take guaifenesin exactly as directed by your doctor. If you do not understand these directions, ask your pharmacist, nurse, or doctor to explain them to you.

Take each dose with a full glass of water. Drink plenty of extra fluids while you are taking this medication. Extra fluids may help to relieve chest congestion.

Take guaifenesin with food if it upsets your stomach.

Do not crush or chew the tablets. Swallow them whole or break them in half where they are scored to make them easier to swallow.

The capsules may be swallowed whole, or they may be opened and the contents sprinkled on soft food such as pudding or applesauce then swallowed whole without crushing or chewing.

To ensure that you get a correct dose, measure the liquid form of guaifenesin with a special dose-measuring spoon or cup, not with a regular table spoon. If you do not have a dose-measuring device, ask your pharmacist where you can get one.

Store guaifenesin at room temperature away from moisture, heat, and direct sunlight.

What should I avoid while taking guaifenesin?

Use caution when driving, operating machinery, or performing other hazardous activities. Guaifenesin may cause dizziness. If you experience dizziness, avoid these activities.

What are the possible side effects of guaifenesin?
No serious side effects are expected from guaifenesin therapy. Stop taking guaifenesin and seek emergency medical attention if you experience an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives).

Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take guaifenesin and talk to your doctor if you experience
dizziness or headache,
a rash, or
nausea, vomiting, or stomach upset.

Side effects other than those listed here may also occur. Talk to your doctor about any side effect that seems unusual or that is especially bothersome.

nni
06-06-2005, 08:43 AM
"Third, ephedrine supposedly has a positive effect on protein synthesis (I think thats what Loki said ). So if I mega dose it and go workout and have great pumps/recovery/gains/fatloss/grow horns/whatever, it could lead to more interesting experimentation."


like is said there are dozens of better, safer ways to acheive this. but do what you will.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:44 AM
I'm just quoting the back of the box of Primatene tabs. I'm not actually taking that brand. I take Bolt, Guaifenesin Free, 12.5mg

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:47 AM
if you read one of his posts, he seems to think that the caffeine is the dangerous additive.

"I realise quite well that I would probably kill myself if I took caffeine with these kinds of dosages of E."

i honestly dont think he truly understands how ephedra works, otherwise who would want to mess with their heart that much?!?!?!?

No, I understand it quite well actually. I am just saying that this would not be the day to add in any kind of stims because my dose of E will be so high. I would never exceed 75mg of E if I was also taking C or any other stims/methylxanthines. I don't want to high dose the EC Stack, that probably would kill me.

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 08:48 AM
I'm just quoting the back of the box of Primatene tabs. I'm not actually taking that brand. I take Bolt, Guaifenesin Free, 12.5mg


But where is the reasoning. I don't see why I couldn't superdose just the E, split into 50mg X 4. As long I am careful not to touch any stims, I don't see the problem here.

Don't do it.

You've had some good posts in the past... this thread just simply isn't very intelligent at all.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:51 AM
I'm only going to stay sitting on this computer for another few minutes.

For those of you that are wondering, I'm currently at 50mg. I woke up this morning at 5:00, took my first dose at 6:45. And its now 10:45 by my clock.

Man, I_m Big
06-06-2005, 08:52 AM
Don't do it.

You've had some good posts in the past... this thread just simply isn't very intelligent at all.

Pure suicide intervention!!

Waxesponge49
06-06-2005, 08:53 AM
"Third, ephedrine supposedly has a positive effect on protein synthesis (I think thats what Loki said ). So if I mega dose it and go workout and have great pumps/recovery/gains/fatloss/grow horns/whatever, it could lead to more interesting experimentation."


like is said there are dozens of better, safer ways to acheive this. but do what you will.

So does this mean that ehpedrine HCL could be used at low doses for lean bulks? I was always under the impression that it was strictly for cutting, but I did not know it "has a positive effect on protein synthesis."

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:53 AM
Don't do it.

You've had some good posts in the past... this thread just simply isn't very intelligent at all.

Damn it Pu12. And I usually listen to you and BringNit. Arrrgghhh. I feel fine, at 50mg. How about if I stop at 100mg? Deal? Not really what I wanted to try, but... I guess I atleast owe it to you guys to listen when you straight up tell me not to do something.

Pure suicide intervention.. lol. Reps. ...... Why the hell can I still not give BringNit any more reps... It let me rep Pu12 one more time, finally....

nni
06-06-2005, 08:53 AM
Pure suicide intervention!!

true.

also the kid is 18, if something bad does happen (god forbid) arlowf will become the poster boy for the crusade that puts the final nail in ephedra's coffin.

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 08:54 AM
Damn it Pu12. And I usually listen to you and BringNit. Arrrgghhh. I feel fine, at 50mg. How about if I stop at 100mg? Deal? Not really what I wanted to try, but... I guess I atleast owe it to you guys to listen when you straight up tell me not to do something.

Pure suicide intervention.. lol. Reps. ...... Why the hell can I still not give BringNit any more reps... It let me rep Pu12 one more time, finally....


Bolt Ephedrine
Serving Size 1 Tablet
Ephedrine HCl 25 mg

Directions- Adults and children 12 years of age and over take one capsule every four hours, not to exceed four capsules in a 24 hour period, or as directed by a doctor.

^^

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:56 AM
Bolt Ephedrine
Serving Size 1 Tablet
Ephedrine HCl 25 mg

Directions- Adults and children 12 years of age and over take one capsule every four hours, not to exceed four capsules in a 24 hour period, or as directed by a doctor.


Yeah, that's why I didn't quote the bolt... ;)
I quoted the primatene, which allows up too 150mg. Different companies, different warnings on the same stuff.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 08:59 AM
I'm going to get off the board in five minutes. I'll check back tonight.
I'll stop at 100mg (thanks alot Pu12 and BringInit :( ;) ). You would be the ones to stop my crazy ideas... j/k
Guess this means no cartwheels....

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 08:59 AM
Yeah, that's why I didn't quote the bolt... ;)

Primatene.....Vasopro...Bolt Ephedrine

NONE OF THEM RECOMMEND a single 50mg dose of Ephedrine... 25mg MAX.

nni
06-06-2005, 09:00 AM
So does this mean that ehpedrine HCL could be used at low doses for lean bulks? I was always under the impression that it was strictly for cutting, but I did not know it "has a positive effect on protein synthesis."

i havent heard anything claiming that, arlowf is claiming loky said it, which is a reliable source, but i didnt see anything claiming this.

dude544
06-06-2005, 09:00 AM
200mg? lol, are you a ****ng pansy?

arlowf
06-06-2005, 09:02 AM
i havent heard anything claiming that, arlowf is claiming loky said it, which is a reliable source, but i didnt see anything claiming this.

He said something along those lines (I know, I know, big difference). I'll try to find the thread.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 09:07 AM
Primatene.....Vasopro...Bolt Ephedrine

NONE OF THEM RECOMMEND a single 50mg dose of Ephedrine... 25mg MAX.

Yeah, I was talking about the max dosing in a 24 hour period.
Bolt:100mg
Primatene:150mg
VasoPro: 50mg/100mg depending on the tabs... ??? Bad warning labels... :(
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mp/vaso.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mp/vaso2.html


And Iv'e been taking 25mg dosages, not 50mg.... I just started early in the day. I'm stopping at 100mg, so you win.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 09:10 AM
Found a really good thread with Lok7y comments on taking E alone!!!!!!!!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=458584&highlight=Ephedrine+Protein

Yep, started by me ;) .

KrushR
06-06-2005, 09:15 AM
I know you've already quoted reasons that might be, but what do you plan on accomplishing with this besides raw experimentation? How will doing this lead to a healthier body? If it's a once a month thing, why bother? What long-term effects do you think you'll see (and don't say 'fat loss)? I'm just really unsure about your reason for doing this at all. I know you're only going to take 100 mg now, but I still say none of this was well thought out. Let the drug companies and test subjects do the testing in controlled environments.

If you were doing a smaller dose and messing with the aspirin/caffeine timing, then I would support it, but o/ding on a single stimulant makes zero sense. Spend your time doing something worthwhile, instead of making us all wear black armbands to mourn your death.












j/k. Don't die. :D

nni
06-06-2005, 09:21 AM
"Still, the idea of using even just E perpetually still strikes me as a poor idea from a homeostatic point (you're still going to hypersensitize the HPTA to stress, it's just going to take longer). I can only speculate on this though because I've never seen anything remotely relavent to this actually studied. Seven continuous months of E would not be beneficial to the maintenance and well-being of your body's adipostatic machinery though, I can guarantee you that."
"and it's slightly protein-sparing"

no offense, but it seems to be like you are grasping at straws. he doesnt really say anything positive about it enough to warrant such a dangerous experiment.

EME
06-06-2005, 09:42 AM
Large doses of ephedrine ( greater than 100mg daily )

May result in:
excitation
tremulousness
insomnia
nervousness
palpitation
tachycardia
precordial pain
cardiac arrhythmias
vertigo
dryness of the nose and throat
headache
sweating.

Also, because ephedrine is a sympathomimetic agent, some patients may develop vesical sphincter spasm and resultant urinary hesitation, and occasionally acute urinary retention with doses greater than 100mg daily.

Note, some patients may experience these effects at much lower daily dosages, however tolerance is generally developed after 2-3 weeks of continuous use.

Sources:

Ephedrine HCl. In: Compendium of pharmaceuticals and specialties. 36th ed. Ottawa: Canadian Pharmacists Association, 2001.

Haller CA, Benowitz NL. Adverse cardiovascular and central nervous system events associated with dietary supplements containing ephedra alkaloids. N Engl J Med 2000;343:833-8.

- EME

creed428
06-06-2005, 10:05 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts on what the effects would be of really high doses of Ephedrine?
the worst thing that i think could possibly happen with really high dose of ephedrine would be death nothing to serious... seriously tho i would keep it to no more than 100mg a day

MrDreamWeaver
06-06-2005, 10:20 AM
Damn it Pu12. And I usually listen to you and BringNit. Arrrgghhh. I feel fine, at 50mg. How about if I stop at 100mg? Deal? Not really what I wanted to try, but... I guess I atleast owe it to you guys to listen when you straight up tell me not to do something.

Pure suicide intervention.. lol. Reps. ...... Why the hell can I still not give BringNit any more reps... It let me rep Pu12 one more time, finally....
You swear you're doing us a favor by keeping at a lower dose. Understand that we're doing YOU a favor by warning you of the dangers of mega-dosing Ephedrine (already backed up my claim on the previous page).

Dude...it's your health. It looks like you have your mind set, disobeyed the principle of falsifiability, proved your own bigotry, and are willing to risk your health for who knows what benefits.

It's a shame you don't treat your body with more respect.

There's not much left to say, we've proved our point to its fullest. All I can leave you with is a Good Luck!

NJLife
06-06-2005, 11:11 AM
YOU GUYS DEPEND ON SUPPLEMENTS TOO MUCH. So much can be done by proper diet and proper forms of exercising. But I do understand you want things quick.

arlowf
06-06-2005, 11:17 AM
You swear you're doing us a favor by keeping at a lower dose. Understand that we're doing YOU a favor by warning you of the dangers of mega-dosing Ephedrine (already backed up my claim on the previous page).

Dude...it's your health. It looks like you have your mind set, disobeyed the principle of falsifiability, proved your own bigotry, and are willing to risk your health for who knows what benefits.

It's a shame you don't treat your body with more respect.

There's not much left to say, we've proved our point to its fullest. All I can leave you with is a Good Luck!

Mr. Dreamweaver, YOU have not done jack. I am not claiming to do anyone a favor by cutting back the dosages, I merely stated that WHY I am cutting back the dosages; the reason being because BringNit and Pu12 both don't like the idea (Pu12 flat out told me not to do it) and I respect them immensely. You on the other hand have not brought anything to the table that effectively points to a problem with what I am doing. You have opinions and seem to think that your idea of my motives/ideas is somehow of merit to me.

Now STFU before I eat your turtle... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=489382


J/K... Turtle has got to taste nasty....

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 11:19 AM
lmfao, "STFU before I eat your turtle." That's hilarious.

BMA1078
06-06-2005, 11:20 AM
I hope you all OD.

dbish77
06-06-2005, 11:23 AM
I hope you all OD.

nice

nni
06-06-2005, 11:30 AM
I hope you all OD.

people like you is why abortion will remain legal.









too much?

arlowf
06-06-2005, 11:34 AM
people like you is why abortion will remain legal.


too much?

Nope, just about right.

BMA1078
06-06-2005, 11:46 AM
people like you is why abortion will remain legal.


too much?


1st- nice original, witty comeback.

2nd- you totally ruined it with the "too much" line.

Hopefully you OD first.

timeserved
06-06-2005, 11:59 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts on what the effects would be of really high doses of Ephedrine? NOT EC, just E. I would like to try getting that much in one day; and being very careful not to take any other stims.on the back of my box of Bronchaid, which is where i get my ephedrine from it says do not exceed 6 tablets in a 24 hour period, which would be 150mg total, the most i ever take is three a day all with coffee, anymore than that and i feel a negative energy response as apposed to the more energy feeling i get.

nni
06-06-2005, 11:59 AM
1st- nice original, witty comeback.

2nd- you totally ruined it with the "too much" line.

Hopefully you OD first.

why dont you hold your breath and wait for it.

neuron
06-06-2005, 12:31 PM
I've taken well over 100mg's before. Once your N.E. receptors get downregulated, it won't have the same effect. You have to work up to it.

MrDreamWeaver
06-06-2005, 12:36 PM
Mr. Dreamweaver, YOU have not done jack. I am not claiming to do anyone a favor by cutting back the dosages, I merely stated that WHY I am cutting back the dosages; the reason being because BringNit and Pu12 both don't like the idea (Pu12 flat out told me not to do it) and I respect them immensely. You on the other hand have not brought anything to the table that effectively points to a problem with what I am doing. You have opinions and seem to think that your idea of my motives/ideas is somehow of merit to me.

Now STFU before I eat your turtle... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=489382


J/K... Turtle has got to taste nasty....

...

I've decided to back up my personal claim, as rudely requested. Ephedrine is a beta-adrenergic agonist, meaning it increases blood pressure and body temperature. Taking mega-doses of the drug seems simply obviously foolish.

beta-adrenergic agonist, especially those not specific are extremely dangerous in mega-doses. i would think anything that increases blood pressure/body temperature should commonly be known as something not to toy around with (high doses), as proposed by common sense.

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 01:01 PM
"I've taken well over 100mg's before. Once your N.E. receptors get downregulated, it won't have the same effect. You have to work up to it."

I agree with this.

pu12en12g
06-06-2005, 01:04 PM
I've taken well over 100mg's before. Once your N.E. receptors get downregulated, it won't have the same effect. You have to work up to it.

IMO, the issue here isn't "how much E can you take without dying".. the issue is what is the safe "optimal dose" for fatloss with a minimum of side effects (both short and long-term).

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 01:06 PM
But you have to take into account the amount of noradrenaline that ephedrine causes to be released in each individual, pu12. Therefore the optimal dose will vary from person to person.

MrDreamWeaver
06-06-2005, 01:10 PM
But you have to take into account the amount of noradrenaline that ephedrine causes to be released in each individual, pu12. Therefore the optimal dose will vary from person to person.
Yes. But downregulated receptors is undoubtely not a positive affect.

BringnIt
06-06-2005, 01:13 PM
I didn't say it was, but it's a side effect of prolonged ephedrine use.

arlowf
06-07-2005, 05:02 PM
Almost forgot to let you guys know, I'm not dead :) Woot!

Anyway, here's how it went:

I started taking E in the morning around 7ish. I (fairly) evenly dosed out the rest of the E throughout the day until about 5pm. I got to a total dosage of 100mg.
I didn't have any bad side effects or anything, I basically felt like I had taken 50mg of E and 300mg of caffeine. A noticed a little better focus (kind of like I was angry/had a bad temper, yet was real understanding with everyone ?? Good feeling... ), as opposed to the usual "run and burnout" that i get when I add the caffeine. I was full of energy, and I could, of course, "breath" really well :). I went to the gym, and had a really good lift. No huge pumps or anything, but it was one of the better lifts Ive had in a while. So anyway, since I stopped at a "low" dose, I didn't really get to any special effects/sides. Just good energy.

EME
06-07-2005, 06:17 PM
arlowf,

Glad to see you aren't dead.

Honestly, the dangers of high dosing ephedrine probably aren't going to be realized in one day's worth of high dosing. That is, unless you really take the dosages to an extreme level, or you happen to catch your body on a bad day.

Repeated high dosing over time is where you are likely to run into trouble.

The thing about ephedrine use is that the side effects you feel will diminish as your body becomes used to the drug, but it will still be affecting you.

You may go along for days or weeks high dosing without any apparent problems.

.....but then one day, when your biological conditions are just right, you may have a bad reaction to the high levels of the drug that could lead to serious complications, or even death.

If you high dose on a day when you are particularly dehydrated, or your core body temperature is elevated, or your body is weakened due to some other viral or bacterial infection, or your electrolyte levels are otherwise out of balance.. then you may cause a reaction that leads to serious complication.

Don't get me wrong.. I am a big proponent of the use of Ephedrine HCL. I have been using Ephedrine HCL regularly as part of my cutting programs for over 12 years. However, I never go over 75mg per day, and I listen to my body. Even after all these years, I occasionally have a day when I feel like my body is telling me just to take two doses today... and I listen.

One question I have for you is this:

What is your real purpose in high dosing ephedrine without using it synergistically?

Ephedrine is far better at fat burning when used as a synergistic stack, than it is alone. The fat burning effects of stacking it with caffeine and/or one of several other substances are far greater than the residual effects of using ephedrine alone.

As far as an energy boosting supplement, ephedrine is really not the best out there either. Arguably, caffeine alone is a better pure energy booster than ephedrine alone is. And certainly other products like NADH and/or DMAE will provide an energy boost without the dangers of ephedrine.

Ephedrine is a really effective component for a fat burning stack when used in safe, scheduled doses, but even if you can handle relatively high doses of ephedrine without apparent problems, I don't really feel that's the most effective use of this compound.

- EME

gaberox
06-07-2005, 06:38 PM
arlowf,

Glad to see you aren't dead.

Honestly, the dangers of high dosing ephedrine probably aren't going to be realized in one day's worth of high dosing. That is, unless you really take the dosages to an extreme level, or you happen to catch your body on a bad day.

Repeated high dosing over time is where you are likely to run into trouble.

The thing about ephedrine use is that the side effects you feel will diminish as your body becomes used to the drug, but it will still be affecting you.

You may go along for days or weeks high dosing without any apparent problems.

.....but then one day, when your biological conditions are just right, you may have a bad reaction to the high levels of the drug that could lead to serious complications, or even death.

If you high dose on a day when you are particularly dehydrated, or your core body temperature is elevated, or your body is weakened due to some other viral or bacterial infection, or your electrolyte levels are otherwise out of balance.. then you may cause a reaction that leads to serious complication.

Don't get me wrong.. I am a big proponent of the use of Ephedrine HCL. I have been using Ephedrine HCL regularly as part of my cutting programs for over 12 years. However, I never go over 75mg per day, and I listen to my body. Even after all these years, I occasionally have a day when I feel like my body is telling me just to take two doses today... and I listen.

One question I have for you is this:

What is your real purpose in high dosing ephedrine without using it synergistically?

Ephedrine is far better at fat burning when used as a synergistic stack, than it is alone. The fat burning effects of stacking it with caffeine and/or one of several other substances are far greater than the residual effects of using ephedrine alone.

As far as an energy boosting supplement, ephedrine is really not the best out there either. Arguably, caffeine alone is a better pure energy booster than ephedrine alone is. And certainly other products like NADH and/or DMAE will provide an energy boost without the dangers of ephedrine.

Ephedrine is a really effective component for a fat burning stack when used in safe, scheduled doses, but even if you can handle relatively high doses of ephedrine without apparent problems, I don't really feel that's the most effective use of this compound.

- EME

Common sense at its best.