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paulpfiction
09-23-2007, 02:03 PM
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Brett-Favre-And-Dan-Marino-Photograph-C12187545.jpeg


FAVRE FTW!

J_Bo
09-23-2007, 02:04 PM
Ties The record and wins the game!!!!

GApump
09-23-2007, 02:05 PM
I gave him the start today in my fantasy league, glad I did too b/c he played a damn good game. I haven't watched him play this season so far but he looked as good as he has in a long time IMO.

paulpfiction
09-23-2007, 02:06 PM
he is on fire this year!

Favre for the superbowl win to end the greatest career

bpb77
09-23-2007, 02:10 PM
It would've been nice to see him break the record today. Guess he'll do it next week.

fromoe
09-23-2007, 02:15 PM
I gave him the start today in my fantasy league, glad I did too b/c he played a damn good game. I haven't watched him play this season so far but he looked as good as he has in a long time IMO.

favre sat on the bench in my league....fortunately mcnabb (my starter) had a monster game

paulpfiction
09-23-2007, 02:17 PM
http://www.triumphbooks.com/filebin/fixed_images/Fullsize/Favre.jpg

GApump
09-23-2007, 02:21 PM
favre sat on the bench in my league....fortunately mcnabb (my starter) had a monster game

we do 2 qb's and my three are Favre, Romo and Rivers-I started Rivers and Favre so I'm pretty happy with it. I saw that McNabb did well though.

bignpisst
09-23-2007, 02:22 PM
congrats to #4 and the Packer fans

J_Bo
09-23-2007, 02:24 PM
I can't believe they didn't give him a chance to break the record at home from the 3 yard line! It could have been at home in a win at the end of the game, but now if he does it next week it will be at the dome where he is hated. McCarthy really pisses me off.

paulpfiction
09-23-2007, 02:30 PM
yeah i didnt understand that...i mean maybe they wanted their young rb jackson to get a touchdown, since that is where you use rb most the time...i was thinking he should give him a shovel pass to jackson...didnt understand it...

.fedale.
09-23-2007, 02:33 PM
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2007/09000d5d80299a2a_gallery_600.jpg

paulpfiction
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0923/nfl_u_favre_195.jpg

bpb77
09-23-2007, 07:08 PM
I can't believe they didn't give him a chance to break the record at home from the 3 yard line! It could have been at home in a win at the end of the game, but now if he does it next week it will be at the dome where he is hated. McCarthy really pisses me off.

Fans may be pissed at McCarthy for not letting Favre break the record on the last drive. However, McCarthy was doing what was best for the team and trying to Win the game. Favre always have next week to break the record.

wsuwarrior
09-23-2007, 07:29 PM
I dont care about records, I just wanted to win the damn game. I almost jumped off the balcony when they called a pass on the 6 inch line on 4th down.

.fedale.
09-23-2007, 07:33 PM
I dont care about records, I just wanted to win the damn game. I almost jumped off the balcony when they called a pass on the 6 inch line on 4th down.

You're not the only one man...

I was jumping around saying every cuss word in the book.

J_Bo
09-24-2007, 03:06 PM
Fans may be pissed at McCarthy for not letting Favre break the record on the last drive. However, McCarthy was doing what was best for the team and trying to Win the game. Favre always have next week to break the record.

there is always next week. I'm just saying that it would have been nice for him to break it at home as opposed to at the metrodome where they hate him and he'll probably get booed. And, every other goal line play was a pass, so why would him passing not give them the best chance to win?


oh, and I'm not talking about the last drive, I'm talking about after the interception when they scored the touchdown on the ground. they could have given him the chance to throw for it first.

paulpfiction
09-24-2007, 03:11 PM
even if they do hate him there, im sure there won't be much booing when he breaks the record...

wsuwarrior
09-24-2007, 03:27 PM
If it was the last game of the season, and we had the playoffs locked up, or were completely out of the playoffs entirely...then sure go for the record. But were trying to win some ****ing games right now. The game wasnt won yet, we needed points.

J_Bo
09-24-2007, 07:25 PM
And having favre pass couldn't have gotten us some more points?

bpb77
09-24-2007, 07:27 PM
And having favre pass couldn't have gotten us some more points?

Favre wasn't able to get the job done the series before when he had 4 opportunities to score inside the 5.

=T Bone=
09-24-2007, 08:40 PM
go packers!

papi93
09-25-2007, 07:29 AM
Favre wasn't able to get the job done the series before when he had 4 opportunities to score inside the 5.

That was Junius Coston's fault. 1st and goal on the one and this rocket scientist false starts. Unnecessary. If you cannot score on five runs up the middle...the offensive lineman should retire.

King of the Misc
09-25-2007, 07:32 AM
I wrote favre off as finished before this season. I am now eating my hat. Kudos to him, he's a champion and he's proving me wrong so far this year.

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 07:33 AM
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/2007/09000d5d80299a2a_gallery_600.jpg

perfect picture of greatness...

Garnett
09-25-2007, 07:57 AM
Just 3 more INT's until he has that record too. Favre has been a great QB, but he's not top 5 material or in Marino's class IMO.

He's proving me wrong this year about him being done as a quality QB. He seems to be throwing safer passes and not "gunslinging" as much as he used to. If the team stays healthy, they'll definately make the playoffs.

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 07:58 AM
Just 3 more INT's until he has that record too. Favre has been a great QB, but he's not top 5 material or in Marino's class IMO.



OMFG, I want to hear your reason why Favre is not in Marinos class?

papi93
09-25-2007, 08:07 AM
Just 3 more INT's until he has that record too. Favre has been a great QB, but he's not top 5 material or in Marino's class IMO.

He's proving me wrong this year about him being done as a quality QB. He seems to be throwing safer passes and not "gunslinging" as much as he used to. If the team stays healthy, they'll definately make the playoffs.

Marino may have been the best pure passer in NFL history but Favre has a Super Bowl ring and Marino does not.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 08:17 AM
OMFG, I want to hear your reason why Favre is not in Marinos class?

Favre is going to hold the all time TD and INT record in all probability. Marino has better overall passing numbers and never had season as bad as a couple of Favres worst years.

Also, to the point of the Super Bowl ring. Way too much emphasis is placed on Super Bowl rings as a determining factor of greatness. There are 53 people on a team. Great defenses have won Super Bowls for mediocre QB's (eg Ravens w/ Dilfer, Bears w/ McMahon, Tampa Bay w/ Johnson) etc etc. There have also been great QB's who've won Super Bowls with defenses who weren't legendary but were good enough for a given season.

I'm by no means saying Favre isn't a great QB historically, but I am saying that he's not mythical nor is he in my top 5 of all time.

bigDADDY205
09-25-2007, 08:36 AM
Favre is going to hold the all time TD and INT record in all probability. Marino has better overall passing numbers and never had season as bad as a couple of Favres worst years.

Also, to the point of the Super Bowl ring. Way too much emphasis is placed on Super Bowl rings as a determining factor of greatness. There are 53 people on a team. Great defenses have won Super Bowls for mediocre QB's (eg Ravens w/ Dilfer, Bears w/ McMahon, Tampa Bay w/ Johnson) etc etc. There have also been great QB's who've won Super Bowls with defenses who weren't legendary but were good enough for a given season.

I'm by no means saying Favre isn't a great QB historically, but I am saying that he's not mythical nor is he in my top 5 of all time.

Besides the INTs, how does Marino have better overall passing numbers? When this season is over, Favre might have 15 or more TD's than Marino, just as many yards or more, and more wins. They've both been in the league 17 years and Favre is averaging one more pick per year. If you threw as much as he has, you'd have more picks, too. How you can not place a QB with all those stats in the top 5 is beyond me. Granted, Manning will probably break all those records but Favre is still top 5 all time easily.

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 08:41 AM
When looking at Favre and Marino, ppl always forget one little fact. Marino played in Miami, FL, Favre in GB, WI (aka frozen tundra), yes the weather is a factor.... Marino had no running game, so he had to be pass happy, thus padding his stats.

papi93
09-25-2007, 08:43 AM
When looking at Favre and Marino, ppl always forget one little fact. Marino played in Miami, FL, Favre in GB, WI (aka frozen tundra), yes the weather is a factor.... Marino had no running game, so he had to be pass happy, thus padding his stats.

Don Shula said in an interview, when the Dolphins were running the ball well it was hard to control Marino. He still wanted to pass all the time.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 10:28 AM
Besides the INTs, how does Marino have better overall passing numbers? When this season is over, Favre might have 15 or more TD's than Marino, just as many yards or more, and more wins. They've both been in the league 17 years and Favre is averaging one more pick per year. If you threw as much as he has, you'd have more picks, too. How you can not place a QB with all those stats in the top 5 is beyond me. Granted, Manning will probably break all those records but Favre is still top 5 all time easily.

My top 5 are:
John Elway - took his team to multiple Super Bowls when he was the only star
Joe Montana - my favorite player as a kid so partially biased but he had excellent leadership, confidence and poise in the pocket
Dan Marino - A resilant passer with one of the quickest releases of all time. He had no mobility so everything was done thru the air
Johnny Unitas - Consumate leader and one of the great play-callers of all time at the position
Otto Graham - One of the great old time players to play and possibly one of its best winners at the position.

Favre doesn't strike me as the leader the aforementioned are especially when he's publicly stated he doesnt want to mentor his back up, nor does he want to learn a new offense or does he want to give his team the time of day on how to prepare for the next season w/ his on and off again relationship with retiring. He's almost as bad as Roger Clemens in that regard.

I respect Favre's toughness, arm strength and flat out guts, but in my opinion he's not in the top 5.

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 10:42 AM
My top 5 are:
John Elway - took his team to multiple Super Bowls when he was the only star
Joe Montana - my favorite player as a kid so partially biased but he had excellent leadership, confidence and poise in the pocket
Dan Marino - A resilant passer with one of the quickest releases of all time. He had no mobility so everything was done thru the air
Johnny Unitas - Consumate leader and one of the great play-callers of all time at the position
Otto Graham - One of the great old time players to play and possibly one of its best winners at the position.

Favre doesn't strike me as the leader the aforementioned are especially when he's publicly stated he doesnt want to mentor his back up, nor does he want to learn a new offense or does he want to give his team the time of day on how to prepare for the next season w/ his on and off again relationship with retiring. He's almost as bad as Roger Clemens in that regard.

I respect Favre's toughness, arm strength and flat out guts, but in my opinion he's not in the top 5.

Have you even seen Unitas play? Elway didn't win the SBs Terrell Davis did... And that other **** you wrote about Favre is so far from the truth...

Garnett
09-25-2007, 10:50 AM
Have you even seen Unitas play? Elway didn't win the SBs Terrell Davis did... And that other **** you wrote about Favre is so far from the truth...

I've only seen highlights of Unitas. My opinion comes from what I've heard family members say about him who have seen him play as well as NFL analyst whom I respect.

Elway went to 3 Super Bowls before Terrell Davis ever got to the league. I said he lead his team to mulitple super bowls as the only star (3 times). I didn't say he won when he was the only star.

Please explain to me what Favre said about it not being his responsibility to mentor Aaron Rodgers. Also explain to me his comments about not wanting to listen to the coaches proposed changes to the playbook. Finally please mention to me how he didnt put his team in worse shape heading into the NFL draft by not giving them a decision on his playing future with sufficient time.

caj
09-25-2007, 10:51 AM
I think everyone always feels that their generation of qbs were the best.

Favre, Brady, and Manning are great - but records or not - I still don't put them ahead of Elway or Marino.

papi93
09-25-2007, 10:53 AM
I think everyone always feels that their generation of qbs were the best.

Favre, Brady, and Manning are great - but records or not - I still don't put them ahead of Elway or Marino.

In fairness, you would need to wait until their careers are over to make accurate comparisons. Brady and Manning still have a lot of playing time ahead.

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Elway went to 3 Super Bowls before Terrell Davis ever got to the league. I said he lead his team to mulitple super bowls as the only star (3 times). I didn't say he won when he was the only star.

Please explain to me what Favre said about it not being his responsibility to mentor Aaron Rodgers. Also explain to me his comments about not wanting to listen to the coaches proposed changes to the playbook. Finally please mention to me how he didnt put his team in worse shape heading into the NFL draft by not giving them a decision on his playing future with sufficient time.

You said Elways lead his team to SB with no other talent, well obviously he had talent.

Favre is doing an exceelent job of mentoring Rodgers, so I am not sure where you get your info.
Favre said it was a challenge to learn the new offense, he never said what you mentioned.
Which draft aere you talking about? Besides it was the media putting the pressure on, not the team....

caj
09-25-2007, 11:10 AM
Favre is doing an exceelent job of mentoring Rodgers, so I am not sure where you get your info.
Favre said it was a challenge to learn the new offense, he never said what you mentioned.
Which draft aere you talking about? Besides it was the media putting the pressure on, not the team....

When Rodgers was first drafted, Favre was quoted as saying it wasn't his job to train him or something like that. I remember him saying something like that.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 11:15 AM
You said Elways lead his team to SB with no other talent, well obviously he had talent.

Favre is doing an exceelent job of mentoring Rodgers, so I am not sure where you get your info.
Favre said it was a challenge to learn the new offense, he never said what you mentioned.
Which draft aere you talking about? Besides it was the media putting the pressure on, not the team....

Elway lead his team to 3 Super Bowls with no other perennial All Pro calibur talent around him. He had other good players but can anyone name another player on those teams aside from Elway?

Favre said in a public statement either during an interview or press conference that its not his direct job to mentor or teach the guy. Starting QB's generally don't say things like that when they're usually the leader of the team.

The reports on ESPN IIRC stated he was reluctant and somewhat argumentative to learn a new system or make changes to the current one despite the coach trying so for the overall team.

Favre has flirted with retiring for the past 2 seasons. Everyone who's asked him, he's answered "i dont know." He never personally came out and said yes I'll be back or no I wont until well into the offseason. Shouldnt the team know if the starting QB plans on returning prior to that?

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 11:28 AM
Shouldnt the team know if the starting QB plans on returning prior to that?

It takes time to come to this decision. Favre had a lot of **** happen to him during his career, and football is his passion. If you were asked every minute of the day, if you were going to retire from your passion, it would get pretty frustrating.

Favre is at the top, so deal with it.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 11:39 AM
Favre is at the top, so deal with it.

We'll agree to disagree whether he's at the top.

The Bigcheese
09-25-2007, 11:48 AM
We'll agree to disagree whether he's at the top.

I think we already have

bigDADDY205
09-25-2007, 12:51 PM
My top 5 are:
John Elway - took his team to multiple Super Bowls when he was the only star
Joe Montana - my favorite player as a kid so partially biased but he had excellent leadership, confidence and poise in the pocket
Dan Marino - A resilant passer with one of the quickest releases of all time. He had no mobility so everything was done thru the air
Johnny Unitas - Consumate leader and one of the great play-callers of all time at the position
Otto Graham - One of the great old time players to play and possibly one of its best winners at the position.

Favre doesn't strike me as the leader the aforementioned are especially when he's publicly stated he doesnt want to mentor his back up, nor does he want to learn a new offense or does he want to give his team the time of day on how to prepare for the next season w/ his on and off again relationship with retiring. He's almost as bad as Roger Clemens in that regard.

I respect Favre's toughness, arm strength and flat out guts, but in my opinion he's not in the top 5.

Joe Montana also had Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig. A great QB, but look at all the weapons he had, not to mention the architect of the West Coast offense as his coach. However, still in my top 5.

Johnny Unitas to me is the same as Favre. Tough, gritty, played no matter what.

Otto Graham played 6 years and had more INT's than touches in an era that didn't throw near as much as they do now. IMO, that is not a HOF career or one that merits mention as a great QB, not in the top 5.

Elway fared pretty well in those Super Bowls too, didn't he? 55-10 I believe one of those scores was. A great player, but couldn't get over the hump until TD came along. Still also in my top 5.

Marino, much like Elway but without the ring. Never had the supporting cast, but all the talent in the world.

My other two in no specific order would be Favre and Tom Brady. Manning and Brady are pretty much even, but Brady has done more with less.

I don't care what Favre says about grooming someone to take his place, it has nothing to do with his performance on the field. And I wouldn't want to learn something completely new if I'd been successful in the same system for years either. I was a little peeved about his whole episode with retiring or not, but when there's high numbers in the W column I tend to forget easily. I bet Barry Bonds still makes the HOF, but look at all the crap he brought on himself.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 02:11 PM
Marino, much like Elway but without the ring. Never had the supporting cast, but all the talent in the world.

Ha, yea right. Clayton (8 pro bowls) and Duper (3 pro bowls) were two of the best receivers of their era. Clayton especially.

Marino and Elway are one in the same, they couldnt win when they were the focus of the offense. Elway wasnt a winner until Terrell Davis was the focus of the offense, Marino just plain couldnt win. That said, they are both GREAT QB's and are definitely in my top 5.

Ok here we go, my top 5 QBs.

1. Brett Favre (yes, a little bias, but the numbers and intangibles back me up. Hes a winner, hes reliable, he has the SB ring, and he has the records)
2. John Elway (Got to the SB a bunch of times, is toward the top in most major records...great QB. Just couldnt win until he wasnt "the man")
3. Dan Marino (stat whore, but possibly the biggest arm ever...but as everyone knows, couldnt win the big one)
4. Peyton Manning (when he retires, could very well be #1 all time...but probably not :) )
5. Johnny Unitas (best qb of his time, would probably still be a good qb in todays game...hes a rich mans Matt Hasselback)

J_Bo
09-25-2007, 02:22 PM
Favre is going to hold the all time TD and INT record in all probability. Marino has better overall passing numbers and never had season as bad as a couple of Favres worst years.

Also, to the point of the Super Bowl ring. Way too much emphasis is placed on Super Bowl rings as a determining factor of greatness. There are 53 people on a team. Great defenses have won Super Bowls for mediocre QB's (eg Ravens w/ Dilfer, Bears w/ McMahon, Tampa Bay w/ Johnson) etc etc. There have also been great QB's who've won Super Bowls with defenses who weren't legendary but were good enough for a given season.

I'm by no means saying Favre isn't a great QB historically, but I am saying that he's not mythical nor is he in my top 5 of all time.


what? he's had like 1 losing season in his entire career.

J_Bo
09-25-2007, 02:24 PM
Elway lead his team to 3 Super Bowls with no other perennial All Pro calibur talent around him. He had other good players but can anyone name another player on those teams aside from Elway?

Favre said in a public statement either during an interview or press conference that its not his direct job to mentor or teach the guy. Starting QB's generally don't say things like that when they're usually the leader of the team.

The reports on ESPN IIRC stated he was reluctant and somewhat argumentative to learn a new system or make changes to the current one despite the coach trying so for the overall team.

Favre has flirted with retiring for the past 2 seasons. Everyone who's asked him, he's answered "i dont know." He never personally came out and said yes I'll be back or no I wont until well into the offseason. Shouldnt the team know if the starting QB plans on returning prior to that?

Elway had no one? Terrell Davis? Shannon Sharpe? Davis was the most unstoppable running back alive before he got hurt

bigDADDY205
09-25-2007, 02:43 PM
Ha, yea right. Clayton (8 pro bowls) and Duper (3 pro bowls) were two of the best receivers of their era. Clayton especially.

Oops, forgot about them. Repped on recharge.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 03:08 PM
Elway had no one? Terrell Davis? Shannon Sharpe? Davis was the most unstoppable running back alive before he got hurt

hello youngins, Elway went to 3 Super Bowls back in the 80s (technically one took place in 1990). Remember that decade the majority here were born in.

How he faired in the Super Bowl doesnt relate to this discussion because it takes 53 people to make a team. QB's get WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT AND BLAME for the teams success and failure.

I can easily say Favre had Edgar Bennett and Reggie White on his Super Bowl winning team. SB wins to me are the most overrated indicator of great QB's there is because 1 person can't do it all as much as they can in other sports like basketball.

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim McMahon, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner, Jeff Hostetler etc etc have all won Super Bowls in the last 20+ years and non of those guys are considered great QB's. THey may have had a great season or two, or a few great runs, but none sustained any significant period of greatness.

I realize this is a Brett Favre worship thread, I get it. I just don't have him as a top 5 QB of all time. Is he great? Yes. No ones denying that, but I'm just stating my opinion.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 03:24 PM
hello youngins, Elway went to 3 Super Bowls back in the 80s (technically one took place in 1990). Remember that decade the majority here were born in.

How he faired in the Super Bowl doesnt relate to this discussion because it takes 53 people to make a team. QB's get WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT AND BLAME for the teams success and failure.

I can easily say Favre had Edgar Bennett and Reggie White on his Super Bowl winning team. SB wins to me are the most overrated indicator of great QB's there is because 1 person can't do it all as much as they can in other sports like basketball.

You bash Brett Favre...but then you use one of his quotes to back up why he shouldnt be top 5...lmao


You compare Edgar Bennett to Terrell Davis? Wow strong ignoramus. I dont know if youve heard, but Reggie White played defense....I dont know how that made Brett Favre a better QB? Youll have to explain that one to me.

bigDADDY205
09-25-2007, 03:51 PM
hello youngins, Elway went to 3 Super Bowls back in the 80s (technically one took place in 1990). Remember that decade the majority here were born in.

How he faired in the Super Bowl doesnt relate to this discussion because it takes 53 people to make a team. QB's get WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT AND BLAME for the teams success and failure.

I can easily say Favre had Edgar Bennett and Reggie White on his Super Bowl winning team. SB wins to me are the most overrated indicator of great QB's there is because 1 person can't do it all as much as they can in other sports like basketball.

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim McMahon, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Kurt Warner, Jeff Hostetler etc etc have all won Super Bowls in the last 20+ years and non of those guys are considered great QB's. THey may have had a great season or two, or a few great runs, but none sustained any significant period of greatness.

I realize this is a Brett Favre worship thread, I get it. I just don't have him as a top 5 QB of all time. Is he great? Yes. No ones denying that, but I'm just stating my opinion.

He called us youngins, lol.

Perhaps this is a Brett Favre worship thread, but now we're deconstructing your choices for top 5.

Since you seem to be so high on the "team" concept, that must be why you included Otto Graham on your list. He needed the other 52 to make up for his lackluster stats. I don't care if he's included on the Sporting News Top 100 (that list sucked, btw), 6 seasons in an era that ran the football does not a great QB make. Your ideas about what makes a great QB are obviously different than ours, I guess we'll just leave it at that. I think I saw an earlier post in here about different eras and where our preferences lie, that's probably the best way to describe it.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 04:02 PM
He called us youngins, lol.

Perhaps this is a Brett Favre worship thread, but now we're deconstructing your choices for top 5.

Since you seem to be so high on the "team" concept, that must be why you included Otto Graham on your list. He needed the other 52 to make up for his lackluster stats. I don't care if he's included on the Sporting News Top 100 (that list sucked, btw), 6 seasons in an era that ran the football does not a great QB make. Your ideas about what makes a great QB are obviously different than ours, I guess we'll just leave it at that. I think I saw an earlier post in here about different eras and where our preferences lie, that's probably the best way to describe it.

Otto Graham was top 10 on that list IIRC (which I agree sucked overall). He played 50 years ago in a different era so I don't use the numbers to justify his greatness, I use the analyst and witnesses of that time I've heard speak about him in relation to other old time greats.

Let me go in order because you're deconstructing an argument not presented.

1. We all agree Brett Favre is a great QB. I don't have him in my top 5, but you do, okay (agree to disagree).

2. The Super Bowls Im referring to Elway with, were the 1st three he went to back in the 80's (including the loss to SF in '90) Not the 2 at the very end of his career with TD and Sharpe.

3. My assertions on keeping Favre out of the top 5, aren't bashing him as an overall player (however it may come across that way). My assertions are my reasons why I don't put him in the class with Marino, Elway, Montana, Unitas etc.

Please re-read all of my posts to show me something different from the above.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 04:11 PM
3. My assertions on keeping Favre out of the top 5, aren't bashing him as an overall player (however it may come across that way). My assertions are my reasons why I don't put him in the class with Marino, Elway, Montana, Unitas etc.

Id really like to know why you dont put Favre in the top 5....you havent explained that yet, but I think I know why.


Your user name is "Garnett". Does that possibly refer to Kevin Garnett, formerly of the Minnesota Timberwolves? If it is, I assume you are also a Minnesota Vikings fan. In that case I can understand why you have bias against Brett Favre, because you are a little butthurt that he beat your team a boatload of times.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 04:26 PM
Id really like to know why you dont put Favre in the top 5....you havent explained that yet, but I think I know why.


Your user name is "Garnett". Does that possibly refer to Kevin Garnett, formerly of the Minnesota Timberwolves? If it is, I assume you are also a Minnesota Vikings fan. In that case I can understand why you have bias against Brett Favre, because you are a little butthurt that he beat your team a boatload of times.

My user name is Garnett b/c my college buddies gave it to me. I am a DIE HARD COWBOY fan and I dont have Aikman or Staubach anywhere near my top 5.


My top 5 are:
John Elway - took his team to multiple Super Bowls when he was the only star
Joe Montana - my favorite player as a kid so partially biased but he had excellent leadership, confidence and poise in the pocket
Dan Marino - A resilant passer with one of the quickest releases of all time. He had no mobility so everything was done thru the air
Johnny Unitas - Consumate leader and one of the great play-callers of all time at the position
Otto Graham - One of the great old time players to play and possibly one of its best winners at the position.

Favre doesn't strike me as the leader the aforementioned are especially when he's publicly stated he doesnt want to mentor his back up, nor does he want to learn a new offense or does he want to give his team the time of day on how to prepare for the next season w/ his on and off again relationship with retiring. He's almost as bad as Roger Clemens in that regard.

I respect Favre's toughness, arm strength and flat out guts, but in my opinion he's not in the top 5.

Incidently, Reggie White is a HOF defensive player and defense helps teams win games. No one is a 1 man army. Everyone has help in some form, some more than others all depending on the talent and performance.
^^
I forgot to address that point initially.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 04:32 PM
You are retarded if you dont think Brett Favre is a leader. He personifies the word "leader".

Garnett
09-25-2007, 04:36 PM
You are retarded if you dont think Brett Favre is a leader. He personifies the word "leader".

Stop putting words in my mouth. Re read my post if you like but nowhere did I say Favre wasn't a leader. I just stated he's not the leader the aforementioned are IMO. Relax, I still think he's had a great career and is a hall of famer.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 04:47 PM
Stop putting words in my mouth. Re read my post if you like but nowhere did I say Favre wasn't a leader. I just stated he's not the leader the aforementioned are IMO. Relax, I still think he's had a great career and is a hall of famer.

What made Dan Marino such a great leader. He was a selfish player and from what I hear, he is also a prick.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 04:55 PM
What made Dan Marino such a great leader. He was a selfish player and from what I hear, he is also a prick.

In my opinion (seems like I have to preface everything I say with that) Marino's on field leadership was better then Favre's SLIGHTLY. I think Marino's ability to read defenses was better than Favres (less INTs). Thats a quality of leadership in that it relates to game management and situation management in my eyes. These could be seen in your opinion as complete opposites. I'm just stating my assertions.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 05:05 PM
In my opinion (seems like I have to preface everything I say with that) Marino's on field leadership was better then Favre's SLIGHTLY. I think Marino's ability to read defenses was better than Favres (less INTs). Thats a quality of leadership in that it relates to game management and situation management in my eyes. These could be seen in your opinion as complete opposites. I'm just stating my assertions.

Marino threw 252 interceptions, Brett has 275. Thats less than 2 more per season...

Garnett
09-25-2007, 05:09 PM
Marino threw 252 interceptions, Brett has 275. Thats less than 2 more per season...

Thats still 23 interceptions. Thats an entire seasons worth for a bad QB. For good QB's, thats 2 seasons worth of INTs. I consider that to be a lot in total.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 05:20 PM
Thats still 23 interceptions. Thats an entire seasons worth for a bad QB. For good QB's, thats 2 seasons worth of INTs. I consider that to be a lot in total.

Its not a lot at all. Interceptions are overrated anyway, as is evident in the amount of games both Favre and Marino won.

You really dont think Favre is as good a leader as those guys? Hes played hurt numerous times in his a career. He played a full season with a broken thumb, he played with bone spurs in his ankle, he came back in a game after a concussion and threw a TD pass....

I think you have something against him actually.

bignpisst
09-25-2007, 05:33 PM
My top 5 are:
John Elway - took his team to multiple Super Bowls when he was the only star
Joe Montana - my favorite player as a kid so partially biased but he had excellent leadership, confidence and poise in the pocket
Dan Marino - A resilant passer with one of the quickest releases of all time. He had no mobility so everything was done thru the air
Johnny Unitas - Consumate leader and one of the great play-callers of all time at the position
Otto Graham - One of the great old time players to play and possibly one of its best winners at the position.

Favre doesn't strike me as the leader the aforementioned are especially when he's publicly stated he doesnt want to mentor his back up, nor does he want to learn a new offense or does he want to give his team the time of day on how to prepare for the next season w/ his on and off again relationship with retiring. He's almost as bad as Roger Clemens in that regard.

I respect Favre's toughness, arm strength and flat out guts, but in my opinion he's not in the top 5.

Why do you talk out of your ass?

Garnett
09-25-2007, 05:35 PM
I've got nothing against Favre personally. I think his immediate and public refusal to take Aaron Rodgers under his wing as well as his retirement flirtation every year docks him in addition to what I previously said.

INT's arent overrated IMO because they're key turnovers. If a RB fumbles a lot, he won't get a lot of carries. QB's who throw a lot of INTs get benched. The top passer IMO shouldnt be tops in both TD's and INTs.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 05:43 PM
Why do you talk out of your ass?

Dude, come correct or dont come at all. I present my points and opinions, retort or roll out.

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 06:08 PM
Dude, come correct or dont come at all. I present my points and opinions, retort or roll out.

But youre wrong. You said that Brett isnt a leader because he said it wasnt his job to mentor Aaron Rodgers? Well, it isnt. Its his job to be starting quarterback...they have coaches for that. But Brett has been helping out Aaron anyway...so your point is moot.

You said Marino was a great leader, but he wasnt. Its pretty well known that he was a selfish prick.

From wiki: The Dolphins, who had 74 rush attempts in the previous two weeks, called only 8 hand-offs, placing their chances squarely on Marino. He finished the game with 29 out of 50 pass completions for 318 yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions. The 38-16 loss ended up being Marino's only Super Bowl appearance.

Hardly something I would consider a great QB to do. Marino is still in my top 3, but the things are you saying Brett Favre doesnt do well, Marino was even worse at.



PS: In Favre two superbowl appearances, he went 39-69 for 502 yards, 5 TDs, 1 rushing TD, and only 1 INT.

bignpisst
09-25-2007, 06:26 PM
Dude, come correct or dont come at all. I present my points and opinions, retort or roll out.


Why do you talk out of your ass?

I say it again

Garnett
09-25-2007, 06:30 PM
But youre wrong. You said that Brett isnt a leader because he said it wasnt his job to mentor Aaron Rodgers? Well, it isnt. Its his job to be starting quarterback...they have coaches for that. But Brett has been helping out Aaron anyway...so your point is moot.

You said Marino was a great leader, but he wasnt. Its pretty well known that he was a selfish prick.

From wiki: The Dolphins, who had 74 rush attempts in the previous two weeks, called only 8 hand-offs, placing their chances squarely on Marino. He finished the game with 29 out of 50 pass completions for 318 yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions. The 38-16 loss ended up being Marino's only Super Bowl appearance.

Hardly something I would consider a great QB to do. Marino is still in my top 3, but the things are you saying Brett Favre doesnt do well, Marino was even worse at.



PS: In Favre two superbowl appearances, he went 39-69 for 502 yards, 5 TDs, 1 rushing TD, and only 1 INT.

So Marino's poor showing in 1 Super Bowl against the best team of the decade is why he's not as good as Favre?

FOR THE 3RD TIME, I never said Favre wasn't a good leader. Those are words you're putting into my mouth. I stated Favre is a good leader but not as good IMO as the guys I mentioned for the aforementioned reasons.

Secondly, the Super Bowl argument means very little since it takes more than just 1 person to win it.

Finally, there is no right or wrong, this is an opinionated debate with views on both sides.


I say it again

You're not adding anything to this debate. Assert a point, back it up with evidence or just don't post.

bignpisst
09-25-2007, 06:35 PM
You're not adding anything to this debate. Assert a point, back it up with evidence or just don't post.

wsuwarrior is doing a good job This is a Favre thread if you dont like him maybe you should get the hell out

wsuwarrior
09-25-2007, 06:54 PM
So Marino's poor showing in 1 Super Bowl against the best team of the decade is why he's not as good as Favre?

Yes, it does. It shows why Favre is a better leader and why Marino was selfish and a stat whore.


FOR THE 3RD TIME, I never said Favre wasn't a good leader. Those are words you're putting into my mouth. I stated Favre is a good leader but not as good IMO as the guys I mentioned for the aforementioned reasons.

And you havent proved why they are better leaders than Favre. Ive proved why Favre is one of the best leaders ever, you havent proved ****. The only thing youve said was that Favre said it wasnt his job to mentor Rodgers....well...it isnt his job. His job is to be starting QB of the Green Bay Packers....oh and hes taken a liking to Rodgers since then and they get along great.

I hope you realize that you are losing this debate.

Garnett
09-25-2007, 06:54 PM
wsuwarrior is doing a good job This is a Favre thread if you dont like him maybe you should get the hell out

I never said I didn't like him, I just asserted a difference of opinion than what the majority feel in this thread. I know damn near everyone who posted in this thread is a Favre fan and a Packer fan. That's expected. I'm just having a debate on my views as to where he falls in my QB ranks. Every poster whom I've debated with here has done the back and forth very well.

We all agree Favre is a good leader, a great QB, and a future HOF. We just disagree on the other things like his all time rank etc. Nothing personal against him or his career or the Packer organization. I have my opinion as you have yours.


Yes, it does. It shows why Favre is a better leader and why Marino was selfish and a stat whore.



And you havent proved why they are better leaders than Favre. Ive proved why Favre is one of the best leaders ever, you havent proved ****. The only thing youve said was that Favre said it wasnt his job to mentor Rodgers....well...it isnt his job. His job is to be starting QB of the Green Bay Packers....oh and hes taken a liking to Rodgers since then and they get along great.

I hope you realize that you are losing this debate.

1. Neither of us are going to convince the other of our points. I believe I'm right and you believe you're right. There's nothing wrong with that. BigCheese and I have agreed to disagree. You seem personally offended that I have taken some slight against Favre. Almost all NFL analyst I've heard dont rank him as a top 5 QB either.

2. You believing your point is correct doesn't make it anymore correct then me believing my point is correct makes mine right. Its a difference of OPINION. Opinion is NOT fact no matter how much we both think it to be sometimes.

3. Because more posters in this thread (majority of which are Packer fans and/or WI residents) agree with you, doesn't stamp your opinions posted as fact. I can easily show post from a bunch of different websites including this one that state otherwise.