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phabphour20
09-06-2007, 09:21 AM
Greetings everyone.

So, I just fell off of keto where I had been experiencing some success. I fell off to the tune of adding 16 pounds over 6 weeks. I hope some was water weight, but I definitely added a LOT of fat. Keto is a little too all or nothing for me. I want to take a more balanced approach now.

This is going to be my log. I am looking for advice and support from all of you guys to help me here. I am getting married in September of 2008 and I want to be in the best shape of my life on that day. I really want to be 200 pounds. I know weight is not the perfect measure of health and fitness, but I weighed that at one time and it felt great. I want to feel it again.

I am currently 301 pounds. That gives me 52 weeks to lose 101 pounds, or just under 2 pounds per week. I think it is doable with a little advice and support from the wise BB.com community along the way.

So, I have been inconsistently consistently working out for a year or so now. What that means, generally, is 2 months of working hard and eating right followed by a one month free for all. What this means is that I am down 21 pounds since Jan '07, and probably have some more muscle than I used to. So, I am not a completely blank slate. I know the basics. It has just been a while since I have tried the balanced diet approach.

My work schedule can be crazy, so I am trying to get to the gym 5 or 6 days a week for lifting and cardio, but it is hard to keep a rigid schedule. Every day I get in to work at 7 am. Fine. Some days I get out at 6 and can go to the gym, other days I get out at 10 pm and just need to go to bed.

I am using the following three-day splits. Push/pull/legs and abs.

Push day is chest, triceps and shoulders. Pull day is biceps and back. I have been having knee problems lately, so legs has been fairly limited and cardio is basically treadmill walking for 30 minutes after every work out. I used to get up and do fasted morning cardio once in a while, so if I feel up to it, I will add that back in for a few days a week at some point. I like tennis a lot and try to play whenever I can. This is another of my goals (as well as starting my new life with my wife in the best shape of my life... I am a poet and I didn't know it), to get in great shape and play semi-competitive tennis again.

So, diet is roughly as follows right now... I am trying for a 40-30-30 or even 33-33-33 balance with healthy fats and healthy carbs (mostly oatmeal, fruit and whole grain bread). So here is where I am at (and I know I need more vegetables, so I will try to add those in when I can). I am also trying to save money for my wedding so I am eating fairly cheaply too:

Meal 1, 7:30am: Kashi GoLean Hot Cereal with a tablespoon of natty PB (multi and 2 fish oil caps)
Meal 2, 9:30am: A few strawberries and blueberries with a serving of 2% cottage cheese
Meal 3, 11:45am: Tuna sandwich on whole grain bread, sugar-free jell-o, very small piece of dark chocolate (literally like 20 calories worth) - another multi and 2 more fish oils
Meal 4, 2:30pm: Apple and some fat free yogurt
Meal 5, 5:00pm: Some Almonds, walnuts and a plum
PWO: Whey in water
Meal 6, hour after WO: Lean protein and vegetable (no carbs) - 2 fish oils

I also drink at least 3 or 4 cups of green tea and a gallon of water per day.

I am thinking of getting into yoga to go along with my lifting and cardio since I am the least flexible person ever and I want to have a useful body, not just one that looks good. Any thoughts on yoga for an extreme beginner (as in, least flexible fat guy ever, never done any yoga before)?

What do you guys think of my plan? Any advice would be gladly accepted.

I hope to post here once a day at least, except when I travel. Official weigh-in and waist measurement day will be Thursday since this is when I started.

Thanks!

-PP

First weigh-in:

9/6/07 - 301 lbs. 49.8" waist.

negid
09-06-2007, 09:29 AM
I guess my only adivce would be to schedule cheat meals into your routine. Once a week or once every two weeks you need to have that cheat meal since you seem to get burned out.

This way you have something to look forward to for all your hard work. Hopefully doing this will help you stay on track on reach your goal.

Another thing I might add is don't let the scale be your master. If you are lifting and doing the proper cardio the BF is dropping even if the scales don't say so. As long as you look better in the mirror and the inches are coming off, you are doing a good job.

phabphour20
09-06-2007, 09:34 AM
I guess my only adivce would be to schedule cheat meals into your routine. Once a week or once every two weeks you need to have that cheat meal since you seem to get burned out.

This way you have something to look forward to for all your hard work. Hopefully doing this will help you stay on track on reach your goal.

Another thing I might add is don't let the scale be your master. If you are lifting and doing the proper cardio the BF is dropping even if the scales don't say so. As long as you look better in the mirror and the inches are coming off, you are doing a good job.

Good advice on the cheat meals. Friday night my fiance and I go out to dinner and I let myself have whatever I want. I don't want to let it digress to a full cheat day, but this way I reward myself for a good week and really look forward to date night!

Yeah, the scale is not really my master, which is why I have a tape measure and will be measuring my waist as well. The scale is a useful tool though and I really think 200 pounds is a good goal for me at 6'2". It is just for checkpoints to see if I am still on the 2 pounds a week (roughly) track.

Thanks for your comments and don't be a stranger!

-PP

Druluv75
09-06-2007, 10:14 AM
sorry to see you leave keto :(

phabphour20
09-06-2007, 10:52 AM
sorry to see you leave keto :(

Me too, but it is just too difficult for me to maintain. There is too much pain when I slip.

I know it is a mental block and I still feel that keto is really a healthy way to eat, but I get caught up on a few elements of keto. First, the whole three days to get back into ketosis thing. That kills me. When I slip, I want to be able to eat healthy the next day, hit the gym, an feel like I am right back into fat-burning mode. Otherwise, I keep telling myself about the three days and "I'll start tomorrow since today is screwed anyway," etc etc.

Second, I find it hard not eating fruit. I know fruit is basically just sugar, but for overall nutritional value/vitamins/antioxidants, etc, I find it hard to believe that even with all the sugar it would fall on the unhealthy side of the food ledger. I also think a glass of red wine, some dark chocolate, carrots, tomatoes, etc, also fall on the healthy side of the healthy/unhealthy line. I know most of these are possible in small amounts on keto, but not in the same day, really. And health really is the endgame for me. Sure I want to be sexy for my fiance and I want to catch hot girls looking at me and all that, but basically, I just want to live a LONG, fulfilling, active life. And being fat and unhealthy is about as far as I can get from reaching that goal.

So, I am still using some principles I learned in my time on keto. Processed sugary food is bad. Basically the only processed crap I am going to eat is bread, and even then I am using multi-grain. My carbs will only come from fruit, oatmeal and this little amount of bread. Also, keto taught me that nuts are good. I eat nuts every day now, walnuts, almonds and natural peanut butter. Egg yolks are good, so I am not eliminating them either. I still take my fish oils. I am certainly not going to the 60% carbs extreme, but I figure 30% from natural sources will help me stick to the plan. In the end, what good is a dietary plan if you can't stick to it? I think my new ~40 (P) 30 (F) and 30 (C) plan will be good.

So, I will not speak ill of keto. I liked it and had success on it. I just always seem to bounce pretty hard when I fall off of it. And if there is one thing I know about myself, it is that I will, at some point, fall off of it. And when I do, the guilt from eating a banana shouldn't be as strong as it is on keto. Again, I know the problem here is mostly a mental one, but for me, it is still a problem.

Best of luck to you and don't be a stranger!

-PP

Druluv75
09-06-2007, 11:19 AM
I totally understand bro,

The whole ketosis thing is very upetting to me because, you don't need to be in ketosis to be fat burning mode. Many people believe you need to be in Ketosis in order to burn fat, this is far fromt he truth. Once you restrict carbs and up your dietary fat, you are burning dietary fat and bodyfat for fuel.

You had very good success following keto, unfortunately the 40 30 30 is not going to produce the same results when compared to keto. You were feeding your body goods fats and protein and your body rewarded you with a slimmer waist line. Being over 300lbs, is already indicator for insulin issues, and a 40 30 30 is not going to help. Please understand I know what you are going through, because I was at 305 at the beginning of the year.

You are right that fruits is all sugar, You can get the same benefits by eating veggies, so fruits is not really needed.

Good Luck with your new program :)

P.S Read Atkins Diet Book to understand the health benefits you'll be missing out on when you switch.

phabphour20
09-06-2007, 11:34 AM
P.S Read Atkins Diet Book to understand the health benefits you'll be missing out on when you switch.

Yeah, I have read his book, that is what led me to keto in the first place. If this doesn't work for me as well as keto was, then I will probably give it another try, or just steadily cut down on the carbs until I am basically there.

Thanks for your input.

-PP

FrostFox
09-06-2007, 11:57 AM
I keep telling myself about the three days and "I'll start tomorrow since today is screwed anyway," etc etc

And if there is one thing I know about myself, it is that I will, at some point, fall off of it.

That's the problem - your attitude. If you cheat, it's never too late to realize what you are doing and stop. The day may be "ruined" but you want to minimize the damage. A single bad day can mean thousands of extra calories that get converted into fat. You don't have to start a new diet at the beginning of a new day, or week, or month. If you cheat for breakfast, you had better train yourself to get back on track by lunch.

Keto is the most effective way to lose weight in dieting - this has been scientifically proven. Even the celebrated velocity diet is a keto variation, and people without much fat to lose can lose 3 or 4 pounds per week of pure fat.

Realize that dieting is the single most important thing when it comes to weight loss. Working out helps minimize the muscle loss, but even if you ate 100% clean and did 0 weight lifting, you would still go down to 8% bodyfat (it would just take longer than if you included weights in your routine).

The people who succeed in losing fat have discipline. Read a few logs of the people who are going nowhere, especially the ones who have been updating for some time now. They have countless excuses as to why they can't follow a diet or exercise program! The reality is it's up to them. If you slip, it's your fault.

Now onto your diet. Nowhere did I see calories calculated... you had better start calculating them on a daily basis! The absolute maximum you should be taking in is 3000 per day. Personally, I think you should be at 2500, +/- 100. As an endo, 2500 calories per day, clean food, doing nothing else, should get you down to 208 in about a year. Throw in cardio and weight lifting and you should be able to hit 200 and preserve a lot more muscle.

phabphour20
09-06-2007, 12:30 PM
That's the problem - your attitude. If you cheat, it's never too late to realize what you are doing and stop. The day may be "ruined" but you want to minimize the damage. A single bad day can mean thousands of extra calories that get converted into fat. You don't have to start a new diet at the beginning of a new day, or week, or month. If you cheat for breakfast, you had better train yourself to get back on track by lunch.

Yeah, this is why I am trying something other than keto. I understand the mental problems that I can have sometimes in self-rationalizing my behavior. In keto, I feel that if I have had a bad meal, it turns into a "lost day" which turns into a lost week. On a more balanced diet, it is easier to fit a cheat meal into the macros and stop the mistake immediately. No more thinking about waiting a few days to get back into ketosis...etc. I realize the problem is mental, but this seems like a logical step in trying to solve the problem.


Keto is the most effective way to lose weight in dieting - this has been scientifically proven. Even the celebrated velocity diet is a keto variation, and people without much fat to lose can lose 3 or 4 pounds per week of pure fat.

I agree, and I had success on keto. I find it hard to follow sometimes for the reasons I have stated. But I think once the results are more or less maintained and I want some variety back in my diet and life, it would be hard to transition back off keto without experiencing the bounce that I have (both now on keto, and a few years back on Atkins).


Realize that dieting is the single most important thing when it comes to weight loss. Working out helps minimize the muscle loss, but even if you ate 100% clean and did 0 weight lifting, you would still go down to 8% bodyfat (it would just take longer than if you included weights in your routine).

The people who succeed in losing fat have discipline. Read a few logs of the people who are going nowhere, especially the ones who have been updating for some time now. They have countless excuses as to why they can't follow a diet or exercise program! The reality is it's up to them. If you slip, it's your fault.

Agreed. What are your thoughts on cheat meals?


Now onto your diet. Nowhere did I see calories calculated... you had better start calculating them on a daily basis! The absolute maximum you should be taking in is 3000 per day. Personally, I think you should be at 2500, +/- 100. As an endo, 2500 calories per day, clean food, doing nothing else, should get you down to 208 in about a year. Throw in cardio and weight lifting and you should be able to hit 200 and preserve a lot more muscle.

My calories are around 2500 give or take a hundred here or there. I think this is the range that worked for me before (on 40-40-20 and on keto) when I have been working out regularly, so I will keep it here for a while.

What do you eat?

Thanks for the comments.

-PP

gymratluke
09-06-2007, 01:07 PM
I'm in!!

phabphour20
09-06-2007, 01:08 PM
I'm in!!

Rock and Roll.

FrostFox
09-07-2007, 02:48 PM
In keto, I feel that if I have had a bad meal, it turns into a "lost day" which turns into a lost week. On a more balanced diet, it is easier to fit a cheat meal into the macros and stop the mistake immediately.

But that "finding it easier" is purely mental and has no scientific basis... most of your weight loss from keto comes from caloric restriction, ketosis is just the bonus which puts it above all other diets. If you are on keto and have some pancakes, that doesn't mean your body won't burn fat for the rest of the day even if you are on a caloric deficit.


No more thinking about waiting a few days to get back into ketosis...

It doesn't take a few days to get back into ketosis if you cheat. In velocity, some people take up to 90g of carbs after their workouts to get to replace the lost glycogen in their body, and they never fall out of ketosis!


But I think once the results are more or less maintained and I want some variety back in my diet and life,

It's not that kind of a tradeoff. I can't eat cheese, or nuts, or (much) beef, and a ton of other things that are available on keto because keto is 35/5/60 so there is tons of room for fat, while I'm on some 40/40/20 variation and those fat calories go fast since I need my EFAs. Then again my calories are a lot lower, but if you eat some cheese for example, since it's high in cals due to the high fat content, you may be hungrier than if you ate less cals but more filling stuff (like protein).

You will be saying goodbye to a lot of foods that are trademark keto by going on a regular balanced diet. Staying on keto is just as hard as other diets, the only problem is that it's more expensive (nuts, meat and cheese are expensive).

Once you are ripped and shredded, you will be able to enjoy junk food on a far more regular basis because your muscle will burn it all off. You wouldn't believe what kind of eating binges some of the bigger bodybuilders (who have to keep their bodyfat low year-round because of competition) go on, with little fat to show for it.


Agreed. What are your thoughts on cheat meals?

Diets need a minimum of 90% compliance to work. That means you can have no more than 3 cheat meals per week. If you have them all the same day, that day is half a cheat day since a regular day is 6 meals.

And when you cheat, you still have to be at your target calories for the day. If you have all of the cheat meals on a single day, don't go above maintenance. The problem with "cheat days" is that a cheat day for you could be 6000 calories or more, while for me I can still easily do 4000+ cals and I'm half your size. There goes a week's worth of progress!


What do you eat?

40/40/20 clean food, 1450 cals on non-workout days, 1600 on workout days. Deficit is about 1000 (my maintenance is about 2300). I'm an endo. I would go on keto but I can't afford it. I can afford velocity but I am not ready yet to give it another go (I failed the first time and immediately resumed my healthy eating plan described above).

gymratluke
09-07-2007, 02:57 PM
But that "finding it easier" is purely mental and has no scientific basis... most of your weight loss from keto comes from caloric restriction, ketosis is just the bonus which puts it above all other diets. If you are on keto and have some pancakes, that doesn't mean your body won't burn fat for the rest of the day even if you are on a caloric deficit.



It doesn't take a few days to get back into ketosis if you cheat. In velocity, some people take up to 90g of carbs after their workouts to get to replace the lost glycogen in their body, and they never fall out of ketosis!



It's not that kind of a tradeoff. I can't eat cheese, or nuts, or (much) beef, and a ton of other things that are available on keto because keto is 35/5/60 so there is tons of room for fat, while I'm on some 40/40/20 variation and those fat calories go fast since I need my EFAs. Then again my calories are a lot lower, but if you eat some cheese for example, since it's high in cals due to the high fat content, you may be hungrier than if you ate less cals but more filling stuff (like protein).

You will be saying goodbye to a lot of foods that are trademark keto by going on a regular balanced diet. Staying on keto is just as hard as other diets, the only problem is that it's more expensive (nuts, meat and cheese are expensive).

Once you are ripped and shredded, you will be able to enjoy junk food on a far more regular basis because your muscle will burn it all off. You wouldn't believe what kind of eating binges some of the bigger bodybuilders (who have to keep their bodyfat low year-round because of competition) go on, with little fat to show for it.



Diets need a minimum of 90% compliance to work. That means you can have no more than 3 cheat meals per week. If you have them all the same day, that day is half a cheat day since a regular day is 6 meals.

And when you cheat, you still have to be at your target calories for the day. If you have all of the cheat meals on a single day, don't go above maintenance. The problem with "cheat days" is that a cheat day for you could be 6000 calories or more, while for me I can still easily do 4000+ cals and I'm half your size. There goes a week's worth of progress!



40/40/20 clean food, 1450 cals on non-workout days, 1600 on workout days. Deficit is about 1000 (my maintenance is about 2300). I'm an endo. I would go on keto but I can't afford it. I can afford velocity but I am not ready yet to give it another go (I failed the first time and immediately resumed my healthy eating plan described above).


hmm...i like this guy! Wanna chat with me about my upcoming bulk?! Gonna do either TKD or TCD or maybe alternate them. I'm gonna be bulking slowly, kinda like a recomp cause I want to stay really lean, maybe even get leaner ;)

phabphour20
09-10-2007, 07:59 AM
But that "finding it easier" is purely mental and has no scientific basis... most of your weight loss from keto comes from caloric restriction, ketosis is just the bonus which puts it above all other diets. If you are on keto and have some pancakes, that doesn't mean your body won't burn fat for the rest of the day even if you are on a caloric deficit.

Diets need a minimum of 90% compliance to work. That means you can have no more than 3 cheat meals per week. If you have them all the same day, that day is half a cheat day since a regular day is 6 meals.



Wow, I never thought I would receive so much pressure to stay on keto. I thought keto was the more fringe diet...

Anyway, I do like keto a lot and I may try it again. What do you guys think about alternating months? 30 days on keto and 30 days on the traditional "balanced" diet, rinse and repeat. Would this keep your body guessing and help with fat loss?

Also, I plan on having one cheat meal per week. Friday night, dinner out with my fiance. I will eat what I want and have a glass of wine or three. Otherwise, I will be compliant with the diet 97.6% of the time (41 of 42 meals).

I went away this weekend to Baltimore to see my beloved Red Sox take 2 of 3 (that I saw) from the Orioles down there at Fenway South. So, I ate pretty poorly, being at the ballpark 3 days and all. But, I am back at it this morning, fired up and ready to go. Had some Kashi oatmeal with natty PB for meal #1 and a few strawberries and grapes with some cottage cheese for meal #2. Also had some green tea and my multi and 2 fish oils. I have to keep the diet in check. Everything else will follow.

My fiance's mother is coming in to town and staying with us for a week which will make meal choices tougher. I will try to be as good as possible as I really want this.

-PP

phabphour20
09-10-2007, 12:19 PM
So, I went for a 10 minute walk after eating my lunch (blackened salmon and broc****). I sit at a desk for upwards of 11-12 hours a day. I think just getting the blood flowing a little with my walk (not strenuous by any means) is beneficial. Otherwise I do no exercise all day until I hit the gym after work. Sometimes I think it would be better to be a letter carrier and at least get exercise all day. But then I might not be able to afford my fancy gym membership...lol.

Off to get some more green tea. Gym tonight. Gotta go at it strong. Involved in a contest on this site now. I need to win. It is a point of pride.

-PP

FrostFox
09-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Wow, I never thought I would receive so much pressure to stay on keto. I thought keto was the more fringe diet...

Keto, well Atkins, was all the rage a few years ago... it was mainstream. It fell out of favor because people wanted to eat their pasta and pancakes.


What do you guys think about alternating months? 30 days on keto and 30 days on the traditional "balanced" diet, rinse and repeat.

That would be perfectly fine. I wouldn't change diets more frequently than a month because it would be hard to gauge the effectiveness of the diet. One month is plenty of time to see whether or not a diet is effective... I myself plan to review every 28 days.


Would this keep your body guessing and help with fat loss?

I was never a fan of the "keep the body guessing" saying. Your body doesn't guess, it adapts. :) Anyway, if your deficit is too great, your body will adapt to lower your metabolism no matter what diet you're on. Seeing as you're 300 pounds, though, I think you can stay and cut at 2500 until you're barely over 200 with no ill effects.


Also, I plan on having one cheat meal per week. Friday night, dinner out with my fiance. I will eat what I want and have a glass of wine or three. Otherwise, I will be compliant with the diet 97.6% of the time (41 of 42 meals).

Take my advice: take all three cheat meals, put them all on Friday, but don't go over say 3500 cals. It will be a hell of a lot easier to stay on this diet if you do so, especially since at your weight, your body is addicted bad food. I know mine still is ;) The rest of the week, eat clean. Just be very disciplined about it!

phabphour20
09-11-2007, 06:32 AM
OK, thanks for the advice Mr. Fox. Maybe I'll start with lunch on Friday and be back to clean by Saturday morning.

So, my first real day is done. And by "real day," I mean, a full day of eating healthy and going to the gym. I ate according to plan.

My workout was good. 8 minute warmup on the treadmill, walking uphill to get my heart rate up and break a sweat. Then I did biceps and back (I am on a 3-day split) with 3 exercises for each muscle group, 3 sets of 6-10 reps per set with 30 seconds of rest between sets. It felt good. I followed that with 30 minutes on the treadmill, walking with a slight uphill. I ended up walking 2 miles at an incline of 2.5. It was a start.

I used to love the elliptical, but now whenever I use it I get a bad pain in my knee. So I am starting out from the ground floor with the treadmill. We'll see how it goes.

I am feeling good. It feels good to be back in it. To be eating healthy and working out. To be posting here. I just feel like I stand taller and I am generally in a better mood when I am taking care of myself. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

Today is going to be another good day. I started out with some oatmeal and natural peanut butter and a cup of green tea. I took my multi and some fish oils. I got some strawberries and a peach and some cottage cheese and a turkey on whole grain bread sandwich and some almonds and a yogurt for the rest of the work day.

My future mother-in-law is arriving tonight so our tiny apartment will be even more cramped than usual. I will need to somehow keep up the healthy eating and get myself to the gym. I will do it. I am dedicated.

-PP

phabphour20
09-12-2007, 07:21 AM
Hello all,

Just a quick update...

Ate well yesterday but didn't make it to the gym as I had to work late (hate 13 hour days...) and then drive to the airport to pick up my future mother-in-law.

I might have the same issue today, but I am going to keep the diet tight so I can still make some progress without the gym.

Man, my biceps and back are still aching.
It feels good.

-PP

phabphour20
09-17-2007, 08:29 AM
So, things are going well I guess.

I had a few cheat meals while my future morther-in-law was here. Unfortunate, but mostly unavoidable. Generally I ate well. I am going to hold off for a bit on posting about my diet as I am trying to figure things out. I am keeping my calories low, but I am fighting with myself over keot vs. a "balanced" diet. I will let you know when I figure it out.

As far as workouts go, this was a very good weekend. I did chest, triceps and shoulders on Saturday followed by 30 minutes on the treadmill. Sunday I did legs and abs and boy I am I sore. I haven't lifted those groups for a little while, so I am aching today. I followed that with 30 minutes on the treadmill as well.

This morning, I made it to the gym before work (about 5:30) and did a fasted half-hour on the treadmill. It felt good and helped my mental awareness this morning. I am going to try and do this when I can, since I seem to get sidetracked by work a lot in the evenings.

I think at this point any additional cardio I can do will only help matters. Do you guys think I should try and have some whey in water beforehand, or should I just do it fasted?

-PP