PDA

View Full Version : PWO SHAKE - w/1 liter of milk?



frodo
02-11-2005, 11:30 PM
Hey guys today I wanted to try something different because drinking my PWO without milk is so gross... and i was out of milk so I went and bought a 1L thing of milk and just brought it to the gym with me, I ended up drinking the whole thing.

That led to me thinking... if PWO is going to be a meal it is about 400calories I could cut it down to 500ML of skim milk + shake + creatine + glutamine, should be ok no?


Another solution, would be to make protien bars? Any idea how to make these low fat/calories?

Chris_Seal
02-12-2005, 04:11 AM
Milk will slow down the whey in your pwo. Ideally, you would like your whey mixed in water, as this will aid in fast asorbtion to your muscles. After a workout, your muscles are crying out for a shake and act like a sponge and soak anything up that comes it's way. Best no milk, as this takes to long to reach.
milk better before bed.
For protien bars, check recipes in the stickies.

taffer
02-12-2005, 04:23 AM
milk is fine post-workout, there is no reason to be afraid (just do a search under alan aragon's name for "milk" )
although its probly not good as your only carb source, having just 1 thing post-workout probly isnt very optimal
while it may be a bit easier, we all know more effort = better results!

TheCrushinator
02-12-2005, 04:45 AM
Milk is good at any time of the day... including post-workout, IMO.

TheCrushinator
02-12-2005, 04:46 AM
As taffer mentioned, though, milk should not be your primary carb source post-workout.

frodo
02-12-2005, 12:38 PM
what else should I be eating/drinking?
how about this:
PWO:
1 scoop of whey
5g of glutamine
5g of creatine
500ml of milk
1 orange


sound ok?

frodo
02-12-2005, 12:57 PM
Milk will slow down the whey in your pwo. Ideally, you would like your whey mixed in water, as this will aid in fast asorbtion to your muscles. After a workout, your muscles are crying out for a shake and act like a sponge and soak anything up that comes it's way. Best no milk, as this takes to long to reach.
milk better before bed.
For protien bars, check recipes in the stickies.

I have been hearing this on the boards, but is this actually a myth?

I mean as soon as you pour whey into milk does it become cassen? I doubt it.. sure the cassen will digest slowly, but the whey should still digest the same? I had this convo with a friend of mine today.. would really like to get some extremely-educated answers on it..

Big Iron 500
02-12-2005, 02:46 PM
Just keep it Fat-Free, especially PWO.

frodo
02-12-2005, 02:54 PM
yeah skim milk is all I ever drink..

frodo
02-12-2005, 05:10 PM
I tried taking my PWO shakes with water after reading that it slowed down protein absorbtion last summer. I did it for about 2 months, and did not see any difference in my gains when I was using milk. Besides, milk tastes sooo much better.
yep it is suprising how good it actually tastes..

brendanm
02-12-2005, 05:27 PM
that is the stupidest thing i have read on this forum, you guys are extreemly uneducated on PWO shakes if you think milk is ok.

milk WILL slow digestion which is not what you want.

taffer
02-12-2005, 05:33 PM
that is the stupidest thing i have read on this forum, you guys are extreemly uneducated on PWO shakes if you think milk is ok.

milk WILL slow digestion which is not what you want.

so your calling alan aragon uneducated about PWO?

someone hasnt even looked at the stickies.... ;)

Rippd
02-12-2005, 05:38 PM
I have been hearing this on the boards, but is this actually a myth?

I mean as soon as you pour whey into milk does it become cassen? I doubt it.. sure the cassen will digest slowly, but the whey should still digest the same? I had this convo with a friend of mine today.. would really like to get some extremely-educated answers on it..

The whey would not digest the same. When you ingest mixed foods they all get broken down in your stomach and mix together, while whey is fast digesting, milk or casein tends to clot in the stomach, it will mix with some of the whey and slow it down.

brendanm
02-12-2005, 05:43 PM
so your calling alan aragon uneducated about PWO?

someone hasnt even looked at the stickies.... ;)

do you think your body keeps different foods in different little compartments when you eat them... the less random crap you take in you after your workout the faster it will be digested especially when casin will slow it.

even with skim milk when there is no fat it will still slow it, you cannot even argue this... how much will it slow it? Don't care, I dont drink what tastes better.

taffer
02-12-2005, 06:18 PM
it will slow it down a bit, but the casein protein actually prevents catabolism, is very insulinogenic, promotes great IGF-1 response, and has outpreformed whey in terms of anabolism too
any slow down (which will be very minimal) in absorbtion is far outweighed by all the good aspects of milk



casein/whey research, etc:

before i get to your question, think about the contradictory nature of what's being espoused.. no milk postW because it slows absorption down, yet they warn against encouraging absorption that's too quick for your physiology to handle without fat storage? c'mon man.. consider the existing research on casein. lands' team (1999) compared a whey supplement (immunocal) with a casein placebo & found whey to be superior to casein for increasing strength & decreasing oxidation & body fat. a year later, demling's team pumped out a more elegant/applicable study comparing casein versus whey, & found casein to be vastly superior to whey for gains in muscle mass, strength, nitrogen retention, & body fat loss. so thus far in research, casein & whey are going 1 for 1. i've already discussed the benefit of milk's insulinogenic nature, as well as casein's IGF-1 binding capacity (a good thing for muscular gain). this is why i believe that having BOTH is best. guys who can tolerate milk & ingest it proximally to their training are usually pretty beastly looking. notice i said usually, heh...

AND, doesnt milk slow down the protein being digested along with it?

yes, but this is not at all a bad thing in the case of milk. you see, milk has substantial insulin-generating ability AND other growth factors. casein allows IGF-1 to maintain its binding capacity & structure whereas IGF-1 would normally undergo significant denaturation by the time it hits the blood. this quality tends to counterbalance & even supercede its slow absorption & processing. whey does not exert these same positive effects on IGF-1 the way casein does, nor does it have the same positive effect on nitrogen retention. there is nothing particularly special about making sure casein doesn't get in the way of whey absorption. in fact, to play devil's advocate, one might better ask why include any whey if it's gonna get in the way of casein . the answer to this is that whey contains, among other things, a significant hit of much needed BCAAs, a uniquely anabolic amino profile, and it also can synergize with milk/casein to hike insulin levels beyond either protein source by itself. chemical teamwork.




open your mind :)

i bet you like a pure dex + whey combo PWO too :rolleyes:


EDIT: expanded that quote

Rippd
02-12-2005, 06:27 PM
Ideally you would have your whey first and casein later, this way you get the benefits of both.

Chris_Seal
02-13-2005, 05:15 AM
that is the stupidest thing i have read on this forum, you guys are extreemly uneducated on PWO shakes if you think milk is ok.

milk WILL slow digestion which is not what you want.

Huge bump !
Will not be sold on taking milk post workout.

~SC~
02-13-2005, 07:31 AM
I'd NEVER use milk pwo personally, nor do I advocate this practice for the 1000's that I assist professionally.

To each his own however, do as YOU wish. :)

~SC~

Sixpack
02-13-2005, 07:43 AM
I agree with ya here opt for water


I'd NEVER use milk pwo personally, nor do I advocate this practice for the 1000's that I assist professionally.

To each his own however, do as YOU wish. :)

~SC~

alan aragon
02-13-2005, 10:34 AM
i don't recommend anything unless there is actual science behind it. casein has ripped whey's ass in research carried out over a chronic basis (ie, multiple weeks instead of a single event). if anyone wants to debate me on that one, then you better have some science. there are many many many things you can ingest postworkout, & they will all work according to how much you really believe that they will. the placebo effect of the mind & the power of belief overrides the subtle differences in one compound over another as merely part of a single meal in the day. i stick with science, this way you can be more objective than just sticking to opinion.

period.

brendanm
02-15-2005, 05:56 PM
also.. you guys are talking about using lactose as your main carb intake?? you have to be kidding lactose is half galactose and half glucose(what you want), galactose can only be used to restore liver glycogen, cannot be used to restore muscle glycogen. so no... the lactose from milk are not what you want pwo.

alan aragon
02-15-2005, 06:19 PM
also.. you guys are talking about using lactose as your main carb intake?? you have to be kidding lactose is half galactose and half glucose(what you want), galactose can only be used to restore liver glycogen, cannot be used to restore muscle glycogen. so no... the lactose from milk are not what you want pwo.unless you are aware of the liver's central role in metabolism & how hepatocellular status is one of the prime make-or-break triggers for whole-body anabolism or catabolism, i can see why you pass off liver glycogen status as trivial. also, you probably weren't aware that recent research directly opposes your view that milk is inferior for glycogenesis, showing NO difference in glycogen resynthesis in milk-based vs a pure carb solution ingested postexercise [Wojcik JR, et al. Comparison of carbohydrate and milk-based beverages on muscle damage and glycogen following exercise. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Dec;11(4):406-19]. but who cares about that, no one ever recommended to use milk as the only postW carb source. although, i do see this being feasible if enough pre &/or duringW carbs were ingested.

taffer
02-15-2005, 06:22 PM
i take it thats a small excerpt from the new article? (one of the many many studies im sure you have :D)

hows it brewing?

alan aragon
02-15-2005, 07:18 PM
i take it thats a small excerpt from the new article? (one of the many many studies im sure you have :D)

hows it brewing?indeed, it's coming to a critical boil!

deadheadted
02-15-2005, 07:58 PM
that is the stupidest thing i have read on this forum, you guys are extreemly uneducated on PWO shakes if you think milk is ok.

milk WILL slow digestion which is not what you want.

You know there are studies out there that show amino acids enter the bloodstream at the same rate from both straight whey protein and a whey casein blend - any type of protein doesn't slow absorption of calories. It's primarily fiber and fat that slow down absorption, which is why they're what you want to focus on avoiding.

The lactose in milk, however, will slow down muscle glycogen replenishment to some degree if you're using maltodextrin and/or dextrose or well.