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View Full Version : What happens when you give terrorists what they want?



JUSA
02-09-2005, 12:10 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050209/ap_on_re_eu/spain_explosion

JUSA

LatsMakeTheMan
02-09-2005, 12:27 PM
Yea......Spain's pulling out of Iraq after that train bombing was one of the most cowardly acts by a government I can think of. Way to go guys.

DanMc
02-09-2005, 12:28 PM
This alone is why it is best to have Bush in office he will never give an inch.

Hartski
02-09-2005, 12:48 PM
Like the old saying goes, "Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile."

EnlightenedLife
02-09-2005, 12:51 PM
As far as I'm aware, the bombing was down to ETA, a group of extremists who wish to have a separate Basque state in spain, near the Pyrenees. They have been around for many years, and have no connection to the war in Iraq.

Hartski
02-09-2005, 12:56 PM
As far as I'm aware, the bombing was down to ETA, a group of extremists who wish to have a separate Basque state in spain, near the Pyrenees. They have been around for many years, and have no connection to the war in Iraq.

But the seperatists saw Spain give in to the terrorrists in Iraq, so they figure that if cause enough damage and kill enough people, Spain will give in to their demands, as well.

EnlightenedLife
02-09-2005, 01:02 PM
But the seperatists saw Spain give in to the terrorrists in Iraq, so they figure that if cause enough damage and kill enough people, Spain will give in to their demands, as well.

Quite possibly, but ETA have been around since the 60s and have been using terrorist tactics long before any involvement in Iraq. In the late 70s they were responsible for around 100 deaths per year. I can't see spain giving in to their demands after resisting them so publicly for over 40 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3500728.stm

cowboyathlete
02-09-2005, 01:05 PM
As far as I'm aware, the bombing was down to ETA, a group of extremists who wish to have a separate Basque state in spain, near the Pyrenees. They have been around for many years, and have no connection to the war in Iraq.
You are absolutely correct.

bulletproofsoul
02-09-2005, 01:24 PM
But the seperatists saw Spain give in to the terrorrists in Iraq, so they figure that if cause enough damage and kill enough people, Spain will give in to their demands, as well.That's pure speculation. Besides, I agree with EnlightenedLife in that ETA have been around for a long time and have gotten nothing.

To address the issue in Spain, the Spanish public were against the Iraq deployment by a wide margin. The candidate who they voted into office said he would have Spanish troops leave if elected. It's debatable whether he gave in to terror or simply did what he said he would do if elected.

Given the backdrop of recent Al-Qaeda oriented terror in Spain, I don't know that it is possible to say with any certainty if that had any influence on ETA.

I think what might be more likely is that ETA may have been embolded or inspired to bomb by the train bombings simply because they happened, or it could be coincidence.

Although I agree that giving terrorists what they want is beyond foolish, I don't see that the story in this topic supports the premise.

LatsMakeTheMan
02-09-2005, 01:34 PM
As far as I'm aware, the bombing was down to ETA, a group of extremists who wish to have a separate Basque state in spain, near the Pyrenees. They have been around for many years, and have no connection to the war in Iraq.

True, but one of their reasons for carrying out the bombing was their displeasure with Spain being involved in the war on terror. So regardless of who did it and what their motives were, the Spanish government caved to terrorism.

EnlightenedLife
02-09-2005, 02:10 PM
I don't think you can blame the Spanish Government for this. The Basque seperatists have always used terrorist tactics, and therefore the arguement as to whether they did it as a protest against Spain's involvement in the war against terror is moot. They have always used bombing to get their way, this is just another excuse for it. They'd still be doing it even if Spain was never involved in Iraq.

As Bulletproofsoul stated, in pulling out of Iraq the Spanish Government were simply obeying the wishes of the vast majority of the Spanish population, as they were elected to do.

fireman_x
02-09-2005, 02:52 PM
Quite possibly, but ETA have been around since the 60s and have been using terrorist tactics long before any involvement in Iraq. In the late 70s they were responsible for around 100 deaths per year. I can't see spain giving in to their demands after resisting them so publicly for over 40 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3500728.stm

Completely correct, it seems that a few people in this thread don't know of ETA's history.

Illuminati
02-09-2005, 04:07 PM
the spanish people didnt want to be in iraq in the first place.. they were most likely going to pull out anyways, but when the bombings happened, it looked to everyone like the bombings made the people suddenly change their mind... the polls taken have shown very high opposition to the war in spain... in fact, tony blair and george bush are the only two leaders who havent suffered from the iraq war fiasco

frank04
02-09-2005, 04:37 PM
The point is that the "p*ssy-president" we have now in Spain negotiates with nationalist parties, that have common goals with the ETA terrorists.
Aznar,the former president,was a strong leader,and was much more active in fighting against terrorism.
Not to mention that this motherf*cker came to power thanks to Al-Qaeda.
After the bombings the socialists,with the help of millionaire actors and other anti-war nazis combined with their overwhelming control of the mass medias,blamed the Aznar government for the terrorist attacks because of his participation in the Irak war.

Many people here are really fed up with the new f*cking liberal socialist government and with all the manipulation that the liberals are doing in Europe,blaming Bush for everything,spreading anti-semitism and calling out to dialogue with islamic terrorists and with banana dictatorships like Venezuela and Cuba.
F*ck them all!!

These people are changing my country from being internationally very respected and economically powerful country to a f*cking mess!

And now they want us to vote yes to this **** Constitution,which doesn't proclaim christian heritage of Europe and leaves the door open to the entrance of Turkey in the EU.
What the f*ck do they want, in 20 years Europe to turn into Al-Europe?!

Many of us are really f*cked with the p*ssys we have here in power,on the other side of the Atlantic.F*ck Mr.Chirac,F*ck Mr.Schröder,and specially F*ck Mr.Zapatero!I just hope that people wake up and that this situation changes in the next years.

I just want to make sure that you guys don't think that we all Europeans are p*ssy bastards and that there actually are some people over here that can think properlly.

Illuminati
02-09-2005, 09:17 PM
The point is that the "p*ssy-president" we have now in Spain negotiates with nationalist parties, that have common goals with the ETA terrorists.
Aznar,the former president,was a strong leader,and was much more active in fighting against terrorism.
Not to mention that this motherf*cker came to power thanks to Al-Qaeda.
After the bombings the socialists,with the help of millionaire actors and other anti-war nazis combined with their overwhelming control of the mass medias,blamed the Aznar government for the terrorist attacks because of his participation in the Irak war.

Many people here are really fed up with the new f*cking liberal socialist government and with all the manipulation that the liberals are doing in Europe,blaming Bush for everything,spreading anti-semitism and calling out to dialogue with islamic terrorists and with banana dictatorships like Venezuela and Cuba.
F*ck them all!!

These people are changing my country from being internationally very respected and economically powerful country to a f*cking mess!

And now they want us to vote yes to this **** Constitution,which doesn't proclaim christian heritage of Europe and leaves the door open to the entrance of Turkey in the EU.
What the f*ck do they want, in 20 years Europe to turn into Al-Europe?!

Many of us are really f*cked with the p*ssys we have here in power,on the other side of the Atlantic.F*ck Mr.Chirac,F*ck Mr.Schröder,and specially F*ck Mr.Zapatero!I just hope that people wake up and that this situation changes in the next years.

I just want to make sure that you guys don't think that we all Europeans are p*ssy bastards and that there actually are some people over here that can think properlly.


easy there... id think it would be far better to have a leader who thinks for himself than a leader who blindly follows some meglomaniac coward who sits behind an office and says 'bring em on' to insurgents in iraq.. also fyi spain hasnt been very respected since we defeated your navy and took you out of the american territories in like the 1800's.. nice beaches though

bulletproofsoul
02-09-2005, 10:08 PM
easy there... id think it would be far better to have a leader who thinks for himself than a leader who blindly follows some meglomaniac coward who sits behind an office and says 'bring em on' to insurgents in iraq.. also fyi spain hasnt been very respected since we defeated your navy and took you out of the american territories in like the 1800's.. nice beaches thoughLOL.

The guy does have a point about certain left leaning trends in Europe (even if he doesn't sound all that Spanish in his use of English to me)...I've said it before and I'll say it again: if some in Europe or in the New World lean any farther left, they'll be kissing the terrorists' backsides soon. :D

Besides, why are they electing Socialists anyway? Haven't they read how all that was a flop like years and years ago...??? :)

Illuminati
02-09-2005, 10:56 PM
LOL.

The guy does have a point about certain left leaning trends in Europe (even if he doesn't sound all that Spanish in his use of English to me)...I've said it before and I'll say it again: if some in Europe or in the New World lean any farther left, they'll be kissing the terrorists' backsides soon. :D

Besides, why are they electing Socialists anyway? Haven't they read how all that was a flop like years and years ago...??? :)


europe only appears to be leaning left because america currently leans so far to the right.. also europeans are smart, they dont create trillions in debt like america, they are busy trying to solve their internal problems first before going out and turning the world into a ****hole.. most europeans worry more about whats going to happen to social welfare rather than a terrorist attack (and rightly so).. meanwhile in america, everything is going to ****, but they've draped over a pretty little american flag to make it look like spreading democracy is what its all about, while social security goes bankrupt, every state IS allready bankrupt, and the national debt continues to grow at an astonishing rate, so the US government keeps on paying more and more interest each year, and bush sells your health and wellbeing to whichever big cooperation can afford it

empires collapse when you overstretch them, especially while trying to conquer people who dont want you there.. america is laying the seeds for its own destruction, while china quietly consolidates its strength, and theres a palapble sense of anticipation as the dragon prepares to take flight... thats why russia and europes big boys usually always stand by china in the un and other matters...

Stinker
02-09-2005, 11:06 PM
europe only appears to be leaning left because america currently leans so far to the right..

Good point. America is one of the most right wing countries in the world, even the democrats, our major representitive of the left wing, would appear relatively nuetral on the political scale of other countries.

bulletproofsoul
02-09-2005, 11:24 PM
europe only appears to be leaning left because america currently leans so far to the right.. also europeans are smart, they dont create trillions in debt like america, they are busy trying to solve their internal problems first before going out and turning the world into a ****hole.. most europeans worry more about whats going to happen to social welfare rather than a terrorist attack (and rightly so).. meanwhile in america, everything is going to ****, but they've draped over a pretty little american flag to make it look like spreading democracy is what its all about, while social security goes bankrupt, every state IS allready bankrupt, and the national debt continues to grow at an astonishing rate, so the US government keeps on paying more and more interest each year, and bush sells your health and wellbeing to whichever big cooperation can afford it

empires collapse when you overstretch them, especially while trying to conquer people who dont want you there.. america is laying the seeds for its own destruction, while china quietly consolidates its strength, and theres a palapble sense of anticipation as the dragon prepares to take flight... thats why russia and europes big boys usually always stand by china in the un and other matters...Oh, I see. Saddam Hussein, a mass murdering dictator, had nothing to do with turning the world into a sh!thole? Did you ever see what that lunatic did when he released all that oil into the Persian Gulf and set all those wells on fire?

It looked like HELL itself.

He put people feet first down a meatgrinder so they would feel themselves getting turned into hamburger meat. His sons were depraved lunatics who were perhaps even more feared than Saddam himself.

And bin laden didn't turn Afghanistan into a nightmare place where people were butchered for not towing the Wahhabist line? And blowing up those Twin Towers, causing all those deaths and costing literally trillions of $$$$ in economic damage isn't turning the world into a sh!thole????

And then there's Mr. Zarqawi in Iraq blowing up all sorts of innocents in a vain attempt to sabotage the inevitable. What senseless bloodshed is that...for a lost cause already.

Illuminati...wake up. I'm not a big fan of Bush at all, but it is the evil people like these who really turn the world to sh!t. It would seem to me worrying about a terrorist attack IS worrying about society's welfare...at a very basic level.

Illuminati
02-10-2005, 12:32 AM
Oh, I see. Saddam Hussein, a mass murdering dictator, had nothing to do with turning the world into a sh!thole? Did you ever see what that lunatic did when he released all that oil into the Persian Gulf and set all those wells on fire?

It looked like HELL itself.

He put people feet first down a meatgrinder so they would feel themselves getting turned into hamburger meat. His sons were depraved lunatics who were perhaps even more feared than Saddam himself.

And bin laden didn't turn Afghanistan into a nightmare place where people were butchered for not towing the Wahhabist line? And blowing up those Twin Towers, causing all those deaths and costing literally trillions of $$$$ in economic damage isn't turning the world into a sh!thole????

And then there's Mr. Zarqawi in Iraq blowing up all sorts of innocents in a vain attempt to sabotage the inevitable. What senseless bloodshed is that...for a lost cause already.

Illuminati...wake up. I'm not a big fan of Bush at all, but it is the evil people like these who really turn the world to sh!t. It would seem to me worrying about a terrorist attack IS worrying about society's welfare...at a very basic level.

fair enough... but look at the saudis, the jordanians, israel, and all those other governments that we support... they all do ****ty stuff... that president of uzbekistan or whatever boils people alive.. but we have no issue with him.. in south america you have folks who kill their political opponents on a whim... no issue with that either... sure saddam was evil, but he was not the reason we went into iraq... im glad saddams gone, but in his place, there are even more terrorists now than there were before iraq.. what we should have done was finish the job in afghanistan.. find bin laden and take him out.. that would have struck such a moral blow to the terrorists.. but the lie that we were going to iraq to fight terrorists or spread freedom is total bs

frank04
02-10-2005, 03:35 AM
easy there... id think it would be far better to have a leader who thinks for himself than a leader who blindly follows some meglomaniac coward who sits behind an office and says 'bring em on' to insurgents in iraq.. also fyi spain hasnt been very respected since we defeated your navy and took you out of the american territories in like the 1800's.. nice beaches though

Well, every empire in history has to come to an end sometime,so did the Spanish.
Not to mention that Spain had one of the largest if not the largest empire in history and controlled the world in the 16th and 17th centuries.
That is something the US never has had and never will have,so don't be an ignorant and learn something about history!