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View Full Version : A 14-year-old boy is sentenced to 85 lashes(and dies) for breaking his Ramadan fast!



RETARDED_MORON
11-19-2004, 12:33 AM
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html

A 14 year old boy died on Thursday, November 11th, after having received 85 lashes; according to the ruling of the Mullah judge of the public circuit court in the town of Sanandadj he was guilty of breaking his fast during the month of Ramadan.

The Kurdish site Rojeh´heh Lât reports that the young man´s identity has not been disclosed. He was scheduled for burial on Saturday, November 13th (after 3 days at the local morgue), in the cemetery of Beheshteh Mohammadi in Sanandadj. However due to the public´s realization of the events surrounding the boy´s circumstances the cemetery was stormed and his burial did not take place.

According to informed sources, supervisors have instructed that the burial take place in the presence of his closest relatives, surveyed by security forces.

BigZeke
11-19-2004, 12:40 AM
Damn he for eating

kwyckemynd00
11-19-2004, 12:44 AM
That's horrible...Well, I just hope the Iranians hold on tight b/c I've got the distinct feeling there will be missiles coming their way soon....then when their large educated class takes power, we may have some justice for 14 year olds who are killed for eating! GRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

weltweitefurcht
11-19-2004, 12:57 AM
Man i am glad I live where I live.

What really hit me hard was reading this thread, then I press backspace and noticced the thread right above this was talking about "what your favorite shoes were".

Not that there is anything wrong with the other thread, Just when comparing what happens to these people and material things.. it really shows me How thankful I should be.

bornagainalco
11-19-2004, 01:00 AM
That's horrible...Well, I just hope the Iranians hold on tight b/c I've got the distinct feeling there will be missiles coming their way soon....then when their large educated class takes power, we may have some justice for 14 year olds who are killed for eating! GRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the Koreans, and the Libyans, and the Sudanese, and the Lebanese, and the Syrians. Don't forget the Cubans, I heard Castro has stockpiles and stockpiles. I think Russia's on the verge of another communist revolution, let's pre-emptively stop them. Come to think of it, why do we need anything other than the USA? The US should nuke everyone! But then, who would you have to scare Americans with? The republicans need some sort of enemy to come to power! How else will illiterate rednecks continue to win elections?

the rich pimp
11-19-2004, 01:03 AM
bornagainalco: You're a ****ing idiot, Neg repped.

404gb30044
11-19-2004, 01:49 AM
thats their religion stop ****zin on other peoples religions...

BigZeke
11-19-2004, 01:51 AM
thats their religion stop ****zin on other peoples religions...

No one is ****ting on Ramadan. What everyone is upset about is that they killed him for violating a law.

404gb30044
11-19-2004, 01:54 AM
ok good point. but IT IS THE LAW . like if i broke a law like , grand larceny - then i get punished by then appropiate punishment or one set forth prior to the incident. THE PUNISHMENT is death where they are from.

JustJuice
11-19-2004, 03:10 AM
ok good point. but IT IS THE LAW . like if i broke a law like , grand larceny - then i get punished by then appropiate punishment or one set forth prior to the incident. THE PUNISHMENT is death where they are from.
there are extreme laws and what is legitimate. How about the US decides to stone ppl to death if they don't put a christmas tree outside their homes this christmas?

still it's a law, but an outrageous law, which i think killing a kid for breaking ramadan rule is a bit too fanatic.

forklift
11-19-2004, 03:31 AM
completely barbaric; nice to know that was ordered by a real judge! you give some people power and they start going crazy!

WyKiD
11-19-2004, 04:13 AM
ok good point. but IT IS THE LAW . like if i broke a law like , grand larceny - then i get punished by then appropiate punishment or one set forth prior to the incident. THE PUNISHMENT is death where they are from.


He was 14 years old. Not an adult at all. I supposed in the Iranian culture he may have been considered an adult but either way it was wrong and I think we can all agree to that.

Patu
11-19-2004, 06:06 AM
Breaking a fast is like taking a dump on Mohammed(the prophet) himself, when ppl beleive so strongly in something they will do everything to obide by the laws of their religion. Boy messed big time..

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 06:11 AM
Shows how compassionate and loving that religion is......

Sure....it's all about peace and brotherhood.....unless of course you're of a different race, religion or nationality, or if you worship the wrong invisible man.

beowulf
11-19-2004, 06:13 AM
It's ridiculous that a time of knowledge and advanced technology there are still entire cultures around the world that are fastidiously maintaining their antiquated and barbaric religious traditions. Most of our religious codes and mores were created to keep people in line during a chaotic time in our world’s history. They are outdated and mostly cruel and unusual.

Regardless of how liberal and open minded many of you desperately want to appear (I know it’s the 'trendy' way to think) none of you, in good conscience, can honestly state that it is just to kill a child because he gave into a natural human compulsion....to eat! Stories like this sicken me...

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 06:15 AM
It's ridiculous that a time of knowledge and advanced technology there are still entire cultures around the world that are fastidiously maintaining their antiquated and barbaric religious traditions. Most of our religious codes and mores were created to keep people in line during a chaotic time in our world’s history. They are outdated and mostly cruel and unusual.

Regardless of how liberal and open minded many of you desperately want to appear (I know it’s the 'trendy' way to think) none of you, in good conscience, can honestly state that it is just to kill a child because he gave into a natural human compulsion....to eat! Stories like this sicken me...

Bump.....rep point.

I don't care how liberal you are......if you think this is sane behavior, you're a f*cking idiot.

DanMc
11-19-2004, 06:17 AM
And people bitch about a lack of freedoms here...

Hugh
11-19-2004, 06:39 AM
And people bitch about a lack of freedoms here...
Yes don't you see now how important it is to stop the government from probing your financial records if they suspect you are a terrorist? (sarcasm) OOMG dudes stop the patriot act the gvrnmt pwnz as!(aka i probably just got to college and think im hopping on the right bandwagon, albeit away from reality) they throw us in jail, fight for freedom!! grg bsh is the suxor he cann not talk!(again, sarcasm).

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 06:42 AM
Yes don't you see now how important it is to stop the government from probing your financial records if they suspect you are a terrorist? (sarcasm) OOMG dudes stop the patriot act the gvrnmt pwnz as!(aka i probably just got to college and think im hopping on the right bandwagon, albeit away from reality) they throw us in jail, fight for freedom!! grg bsh is the suxor he cann not talk!(again, sarcasm).

I don't understand most of what you just said, but I think I agree with you:D

Tim
11-19-2004, 06:46 AM
That's sick. Fundamentalist Islamic governments suck.

Hartski
11-19-2004, 07:14 AM
This makes me want to drop a few hundred tons of Hardees Monster Burgers over their countries.

Tamacracker
11-19-2004, 07:23 AM
And the Koreans, and the Libyans, and the Sudanese, and the Lebanese, and the Syrians. Don't forget the Cubans, I heard Castro has stockpiles and stockpiles. I think Russia's on the verge of another communist revolution, let's pre-emptively stop them. Come to think of it, why do we need anything other than the USA? The US should nuke everyone! But then, who would you have to scare Americans with? The republicans need some sort of enemy to come to power! How else will illiterate rednecks continue to win elections?


I already know what's gonna happen, but no one will believe it, and no one will care... they'll think they're lies and people like me are just crazy. We fawk with Iran... we're gonna be fawking with WWIII. In saying that, China, Russia, Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, Africa etc will come to rape us... We're surrounded in each corner with only having Canada to shield us in the north.. but Biochemical wars will end that quickly. The way I see it is... if you and many other people can't win a fight against a bully one on one.. they'll just unite and do the job.

Anyways that's off topic, but yes it's sad that a child has to be whipped because his hunger pains are extreme.

Tamacracker
11-19-2004, 07:27 AM
Bump.....rep point.

I don't care how liberal you are......if you think this is sane behavior, you're a f*cking idiot.


Liberals believe it's ok to whip children 85 times?!?!
Holy **** I've been soo deep into the underground I never thought any human would think this is a SANE behavior other than the culture that pushes that rule onto their people.

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 07:43 AM
Liberals believe it's ok to whip children 85 times?!?!
Holy **** I've been soo deep into the underground I never thought any human would think this is a SANE behavior other than the culture that pushes that rule onto their people.

I didnt think the liberals would condone the whipping, as they are typically against capital punishment anyway.

My point was that I was expecting the liberals to give US sh*t for degrading the muslims who did it. I figured the bleeding hearts would come out of the woodwork and be like "Hey.....that's their culture....just because it's different than yours don't insult it.....blah blah"

Anyway, I'm glad to see that we're pretty much all in agreement here.

corpsedub
11-19-2004, 07:51 AM
I didnt think the liberals would condone the whipping, as they are typically against capital punishment anyway.

My point was that I was expecting the liberals to give US sh*t for degrading the muslims who did it. I figured the bleeding hearts would come out of the woodwork and be like "Hey.....that's their culture....just because it's different than yours don't insult it.....blah blah"

Anyway, I'm glad to see that we're pretty much all in agreement here.


i dont think anyone with good consience condones this. liberal or conservative. brutality need not apply.

Paul121
11-19-2004, 07:51 AM
I'm amazed by the sheer stupidity and ignorance (of some) on this thread...some of you need to get a clue, and fast. No names.

It's a shame about that boy...somebody should whip the judge who ordered 85 times...

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 08:05 AM
I'm amazed by the sheer stupidity and ignorance (of some) on this thread...some of you need to get a clue, and fast. No names.

It's a shame about that boy...somebody should whip the judge who ordered 85 times...

I know.....I mean christ.....after 85 times, there wouldn't even be any skin left, would there? You'd be whipping a mound of ripped up flesh. I dont think anyone could survive that.

The Bassist
11-19-2004, 08:19 AM
How dare he satisfy his basic human instinct to eat food!!!! Blasphemy!!!

Ah, the wonders of islam.

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 10:20 AM
How dare he satisfy his basic human instinct to eat food!!!! Blasphemy!!!

Ah, the wonders of islam.

LOL

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 10:48 AM
It's ridiculous that a time of knowledge and advanced technology there are still entire cultures around the world that are fastidiously maintaining their antiquated and barbaric religious traditions. Most of our religious codes and mores were created to keep people in line during a chaotic time in our world’s history. They are outdated and mostly cruel and unusual.

Regardless of how liberal and open minded many of you desperately want to appear (I know it’s the 'trendy' way to think) none of you, in good conscience, can honestly state that it is just to kill a child because he gave into a natural human compulsion....to eat! Stories like this sicken me...

Wow, couldnt have said it better myself.

bts327
11-19-2004, 10:52 AM
I wonder what syriankid has to say about this.

e-reloaded12
11-19-2004, 10:58 AM
wtf thar is going to far. Allah is supposed to punish the boy when he dies and not the people

this is wrong

but again the religion does not support this
beowulf is 100% right

C Hall
11-19-2004, 11:45 AM
It's hard to believe that adults in the year 2004 are doing stuff like this. I don't care if it is the Middle East, a boy dying because he cheated during fasting is insane.

perryelis
11-19-2004, 12:06 PM
so what do muslims on this board think of this? syriankid, trance, bigtruckguy?

The Kurgan
11-19-2004, 12:10 PM
I'm surprised SyrianKid hasn't come in here, telling us that this is against Islam, then explaining why it is right.

E-Mang
11-19-2004, 12:13 PM
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html

A 14 year old boy died on Thursday, November 11th, after having received 85 lashes; according to the ruling of the Mullah judge of the public circuit court in the town of Sanandadj he was guilty of breaking his fast during the month of Ramadan.

The Kurdish site Rojeh´heh Lât reports that the young man´s identity has not been disclosed. He was scheduled for burial on Saturday, November 13th (after 3 days at the local morgue), in the cemetery of Beheshteh Mohammadi in Sanandadj. However due to the public´s realization of the events surrounding the boy´s circumstances the cemetery was stormed and his burial did not take place.

According to informed sources, supervisors have instructed that the burial take place in the presence of his closest relatives, surveyed by security forces.
Oh man, you have no idea how much I was pissed off after reading this. Simply ridiculous.

E-Mang
11-19-2004, 12:15 PM
And the Koreans, and the Libyans, and the Sudanese, and the Lebanese, and the Syrians. Don't forget the Cubans, I heard Castro has stockpiles and stockpiles. I think Russia's on the verge of another communist revolution, let's pre-emptively stop them. Come to think of it, why do we need anything other than the USA? The US should nuke everyone! But then, who would you have to scare Americans with? The republicans need some sort of enemy to come to power! How else will illiterate rednecks continue to win elections?
So you condone 14 year old kids being killed for eating?

E-Mang
11-19-2004, 12:17 PM
Shows how compassionate and loving that religion is......

Sure....it's all about peace and brotherhood.....unless of course you're of a different race, religion or nationality, or if you worship the wrong invisible man.
YES! you're getting a rep point my man!

Twiggy316225
11-19-2004, 12:19 PM
So you condone 14 year old kids being killed for eating?
it is not for eating , it is for failing to fast which is one of the 5 pilars of islam and the only people who are allowed to eat during fasting are pregant women, young children, ill, and the old. and besides it is only from sun up to sun down, you can wait
come on people it is someones religion and don't dis other people religion

ratmonkey
11-19-2004, 12:19 PM
during ramadan you can eat from sunset to sunrise, so i don't know why this boy felt he had to eat during the day to break his fast.

he got stupid.

the punishment certainly doesn't fit the crime though.

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 12:21 PM
LatsMakeTheMan used the term "invisible man" , which I think is totally true of all religion. No one ever sees "God", but we are willing to kill someone over this invisible man, its completely nuts when you think about it. Its like a fantasy movie in real life...rediculous...

E-Mang
11-19-2004, 12:22 PM
it is not for eating , it is for failing to fast which is one of the 5 pilars of islam and the only people who are allowed to eat during fasting are pregant women, young children, ill, and the old.
come on people it is someones religion and don't dis other people religion
Yes well the punishement was simply barbaric. By the way when was the last time somebody was executed here in the states for lying(thou shall not lie)?

the_invince
11-19-2004, 12:22 PM
not that I condone what happened, but since when did the U.S. become the moral authority of the world?

perryelis
11-19-2004, 12:24 PM
LatsMakeTheMan used the term "invisible man" , which I think is totally true of all religion. No one ever sees "God", but we are willing to kill someone over this invisible man, its completely nuts when you think about it. Its like a fantasy movie in real life...rediculous...
Noone sees love yet we are willing to marry and have children and love them - whats your point?

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 12:24 PM
not that I condone what happened, but since when did the U.S. become the moral authority of the world?

Shutup...please....shutup.... :mad:

LatsMakeTheMan
11-19-2004, 12:25 PM
LatsMakeTheMan used the term "invisible man" , which I think is totally true of all religion. No one ever sees "God", but we are willing to kill someone over this invisible man, its completely nuts when you think about it. Its like a fantasy movie in real life...rediculous...

I'm not anti-religion, but it is kind of funny when you think about it that way. George Carlin said it best:

"Religion is the biggest bullsh*t story of all time. Think about it...religion has convinced us that there is an invisible man, who lives in the sky. He watches you all the time, and knows all your thoughts. He has a list of 10 things that he doesn't want you to do....and if you do any of those things, he's going to send you to a firey cauldon of pain, torture and agony......but he loves you. He loves you......and.....he needs money."

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 12:32 PM
Noone sees love yet we are willing to marry and have children and love them - whats your point?

Wow, very simple to kill your arguement. God is a "being"...love is an emotion. Just stop.

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 12:35 PM
I'm not anti-religion, but it is kind of funny when you think about it that way. George Carlin said it best:

"Religion is the biggest bullsh*t story of all time. Think about it...religion has convinced us that there is an invisible man, who lives in the sky. He watches you all the time, and knows all your thoughts. He has a list of 10 things that he doesn't want you to do....and if you do any of those things, he's going to send you to a firey cauldon of pain, torture and agony......but he loves you. He loves you......and.....he needs money."

:D I love it.

the_invince
11-19-2004, 12:39 PM
Shutup...please....shutup.... :mad:

why? forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the same people who advocate bombing the whole middle east(men, women, and yes 14 and under children,) into a huge plate of glass, actually give a crap about what happens to one 14 year old boy. worse acts are committed here than what happened to that boy, and nobody give a ****, but some other country decides to enforce their own laws, and by God, what an outrage. there is no universal code of ethics, no perfect definition of morality. it is by and large subjective according to each nation/society/culture. and until we stop being hypocrites and looking the other way when we ourselves don't follow the supposed 'moral code' , then there is no justification for judging others on theirs.

perryelis
11-19-2004, 12:41 PM
Wow, very simple to kill your arguement. God is a "being"...love is an emotion. Just stop.
But in essense they are both not visible to the naked eye- so try again.

ratmonkey
11-19-2004, 12:43 PM
Noone sees love yet we are willing to marry and have children and love them - whats your point?
false analogy arguement.

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 12:44 PM
But in essense they are both not visible to the naked eye- so try again.

So is air, but it is proven to exist. God is not proven to exist. Like I said, god is a "being". Air is a "thing". Love is just an emotion that we , with the American language have labled "love"....call it flabelybosh for all I care.

Brinn
11-19-2004, 12:46 PM
forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the same people who advocate bombing the whole middle east(men, women, and yes 14 and under children,) into a huge plate of glass, actually give a crap about what happens to one 14 year old boy.
Can you find quotes that show the same people advocating both points of view? Or are you just painting everyone here with the same brush?

the_invince
11-19-2004, 12:52 PM
Can you find quotes that show the same people advocating both points of view? Or are you just painting everyone here with the same brush?

not exactly with the same brush, more like with the same color(but why change brushes then?). I'm overgeneralizing, I know, but I don't doubt that were one to check, one would probably find the same people advocating both points of view, depending on whatever side the media shows them. I know this was especially evident during the period of the beheading video and the abu ghraib incident.

perryelis
11-19-2004, 12:52 PM
So is air, but it is proven to exist. God is not proven to exist. Like I said, god is a "being". Air is a "thing". Love is just an emotion that we , with the American language have labled "love"....call it flabelybosh for all I care.
well then flabelybosh is something that you can not see but yet you feel it- you see how mothers care for their child, you see how couples marry and live happily in love everafter. you can not "see' flabelybosh but yet you know its there- its the same thing with God- you can not see him "face to face" but he is all around us in his creation.

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 12:53 PM
well then flabelybosh is something that you can not see but yet you feel it- you see how mothers care for their child, you see how couples marry and live happily in love everafter. you can not "see' flabelybosh but yet you know its there- its the same thing with God- you can not see him "face to face" but he is all around us in his creation.

I have never felt God. And I guess its because I dont "believe" . :rolleyes:

Im sorry, Im not gonna jump through hoops for some fantasy book and lead a boring life because of some being that supposedly exists.

perryelis
11-19-2004, 01:00 PM
I have never felt God.
thats maybe because you dont want to feel God, you dont seek God.your own fault.

super shocker
11-19-2004, 01:02 PM
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/source/001327.html

A 14 year old boy died on Thursday, November 11th, after having received 85 lashes; according to the ruling of the Mullah judge of the public circuit court in the town of Sanandadj he was guilty of breaking his fast during the month of Ramadan.

The Kurdish site Rojeh´heh Lât reports that the young man´s identity has not been disclosed. He was scheduled for burial on Saturday, November 13th (after 3 days at the local morgue), in the cemetery of Beheshteh Mohammadi in Sanandadj. However due to the public´s realization of the events surrounding the boy´s circumstances the cemetery was stormed and his burial did not take place.

According to informed sources, supervisors have instructed that the burial take place in the presence of his closest relatives, surveyed by security forces.


These are the same people who get in fights you see on the news who throw rocks at each other, this shouldn't suprise anyone.

This is why nobody should take religion so seriously. For example I believe in Jesus, but I do eat meat on Friday, even during the time of the year you're not supposed to (Lent I believe). You know why, I'm a good person overall, that should account for something. I don't go around raping or murdering people or generally acting like an ******* all the time. I think God is forgiving enough to see that takes precedent over some random rules about what you eat on a certain day.

Petey_G
11-19-2004, 01:03 PM
it is not for eating , it is for failing to fast which is one of the 5 pilars of islam and the only people who are allowed to eat during fasting are pregant women, young children, ill, and the old. and besides it is only from sun up to sun down, you can wait
come on people it is someones religion and don't dis other people religion

...and the Liberals start to leave the woodworks to justify this killing...

...nice...

super shocker
11-19-2004, 01:04 PM
:D I love it.


bump on the bump about George, he is my idol

Wheelies
11-19-2004, 01:06 PM
These are the same people who get in fights you see on the news who throw rocks at each other, this shouldn't suprise anyone.

This is why nobody should take religion so seriously. For example I believe in Jesus, but I do eat meat on Friday, even during the time of the year you're not supposed to (Lent I believe). You know why, I'm a good person overall, that should account for something. I don't go around raping or murdering people or generally acting like an ******* all the time. I think God is forgiving enough to see that takes precedent over some random rules about what you eat on a certain day.

Why is it that you are not supposed to eat meat on Friday?

CerealKiller
11-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Absolutely barbaric!

Paul121
11-19-2004, 01:08 PM
why? forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the same people who advocate bombing the whole middle east(men, women, and yes 14 and under children,) into a huge plate of glass, actually give a crap about what happens to one 14 year old boy. worse acts are committed here than what happened to that boy, and nobody give a ****, but some other country decides to enforce their own laws, and by God, what an outrage. there is no universal code of ethics, no perfect definition of morality. it is by and large subjective according to each nation/society/culture. and until we stop being hypocrites and looking the other way when we ourselves don't follow the supposed 'moral code' , then there is no justification for judging others on theirs.

It's called collateral damage my friend...sometimes happens in war. Nobody wants it to happen, well maybe a few sadistic asses, but I believe the majority feels bad. The point is coalition forces are not targeting innocent Iraqi people. It is also very hard to distinguish between the two sometimes. Their war tactics are less than honorable using women and children as shields. They use car bombs, than hide in Mosques so if we damage a Mosque taking their sorry asses down we look bad. War is messy, and this particuliar war is almost impossible to win because they hide, and scatter like roaches when the lights go on.

Besides you are missing the whole point of this thread. A little boy was killed because he ate when he wasn't supposed to. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. That particuliar punishment fits the crimes of a serial killer, not a hungry little boy who couldn't wait.

perryelis
11-19-2004, 01:12 PM
Why is it that you are not supposed to eat meat on Friday?
im pretty positive is a catholic church doctrine. ;[. so many people have this huge misconception about God and the bible that really amazes me. ie. that God is some "old invisible guy" floating in the air. :rolleyes:

AJ010
11-19-2004, 01:59 PM
That was a very unreasonable punishment, for simply breaking his fast. If anything, I would have just extended the fast a few days longer as punishment, not f*cking beat and kill the boy.


And all those people getting pissed and storming the cemetary, f*cking retarded. They more than just overreacted, they acted like animals.

the_invince
11-19-2004, 03:05 PM
It's called collateral damage my friend...sometimes happens in war. Nobody wants it to happen, well maybe a few sadistic asses, but I believe the majority feels bad. The point is coalition forces are not targeting innocent Iraqi people. It is also very hard to distinguish between the two sometimes. Their war tactics are less than honorable using women and children as shields. They use car bombs, than hide in Mosques so if we damage a Mosque taking their sorry asses down we look bad. War is messy, and this particuliar war is almost impossible to win because they hide, and scatter like roaches when the lights go on.

Besides you are missing the whole point of this thread. A little boy was killed because he ate when he wasn't supposed to. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. That particuliar punishment fits the crimes of a serial killer, not a hungry little boy who couldn't wait.

and similarly they can argue that theirs was a war, between holy and unholy.
how less honorable are their tactics than ours? dropping bombs and firing missiles from a safe distance? we kill a bunch of innocent people, oh that's collateral damage. they kill a bunch of innocent people trying to hide and escape, oh that's dirty pool, they're not playing fair.

who are we to say that a punishment does not fit a crime. that's the point in question. we are not the moral authority of the world. not when we can't even stick to our own morals. we have no business criticizing other countries on theirs.

kwyckemynd00
11-19-2004, 04:09 PM
I already know what's gonna happen, but no one will believe it, and no one will care... they'll think they're lies and people like me are just crazy. We fawk with Iran... we're gonna be fawking with WWIII. In saying that, China, Russia, Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, Africa etc will come to rape us... We're surrounded in each corner with only having Canada to shield us in the north.. but Biochemical wars will end that quickly. The way I see it is... if you and many other people can't win a fight against a bully one on one.. they'll just unite and do the job.

Anyways that's off topic, but yes it's sad that a child has to be whipped because his hunger pains are extreme.
You're right...I think you're crazy. We'd have a much greater probability of China being pissed at us if we invaded Korea than Iran. And, Russia's Pres, Vladmir Putin, has already openly given his support for GWB and is supportive of his war on terror. I'm sure they know Iran is going to have problems real soon. Also, the world understands that if the USA is attacked the world will have an economic collapse. It's not quite so simple as a few people thinking we're bullies.

There was a much greater probability of a world war (or more like a gang up on America war) from Iraq than there would be with Iran or N. Korea. And, like I said, of the two, Iran is the least likely to cause problems world wide. Probably piss off some muslim nations though. That'll be a mess. But as far as world powers attacking us over Iran...I'd say there's not too great a chance that will happen.

But, this is all theory and nobody knows for sure. Considering it has not actually happened, you could theoretically be right. I hope you're not, but it's possible. It's just MHO that the chances are reallly low WWIII is going to be a result of a forced admin change in Iran.

Petey_G
11-19-2004, 04:20 PM
You're right...I think you're crazy. We'd have a much greater probability of China being pissed at us if we invaded Korea than Iran. And, Russia's Pres, Vladmir Putin, has already openly given his support for GWB and is supportive of his war on terror. I'm sure they know Iran is going to have problems real soon. Also, the world understands that if the USA is attacked the world will have an economic collapse. It's not quite so simple as a few people thinking we're bullies.

There was a much greater probability of a world war (or more like a gang up on America war) from Iraq than there would be with Iran or N. Korea. And, like I said, of the two, Iran is the least likely to cause problems world wide. Probably piss off some muslim nations though. That'll be a mess. But as far as world powers attacking us over Iran...I'd say there's not too great a chance that will happen.

But, this is all theory and nobody knows for sure. Considering it has not actually happened, you could theoretically be right. I hope you're not, but it's possible. It's just MHO that the chances are reallly low WWIII is going to be a result of a forced admin change in Iran.

Your right, not too many countries give a **** about Iran; let alone start a full on conventional warfare with the USA over them...Yes, some countries will get very angry about the situation, but when everything is done, they just cant take action.
China doesnt give 2 ****s about Iran...
Russia doesnt give 2 ****s about Iran...
Europe doesnt give 2 ****s about Iran...
China is not that stupid.
Russia is not that stupid.
Europe is not that stuipid.

kwyckemynd00
11-19-2004, 04:37 PM
...
ROFLMAO!!! I just read your "Idiotic Quote of the Year" in your sig! That's classic!!

I just had my aunt saying something similar to me and I wanted to slap her. She's such an idiot. She likes to tell me my conservative views are wrong all the time and that I can't always be right, but she never tells my why I'm wrong or proves me wrong...it all made sense when she said..."What I don't understand [is that why are people voting republican when] we're a democracy????" ROFL....

nitr0x2
11-19-2004, 04:47 PM
The Islamic punishment for purposely breaking the fast is to fast an extra 60 consecutive days or feed 60 hungry people.

I would also like to see this article on a site that has a little more credibility.

Petey_G
11-19-2004, 04:49 PM
ROFLMAO!!! I just read your "Idiotic Quote of the Year" in your sig! That's classic!!

I just had my aunt saying something similar to me and I wanted to slap her. She's such an idiot. She likes to tell me my conservative views are wrong all the time and that I can't always be right, but she never tells my why I'm wrong or proves me wrong...it all made sense when she said..."What I don't understand [is that why are people voting republican when] we're a democracy????" ROFL....

Its not funny...Its sad... :D

kwyckemynd00
11-19-2004, 04:53 PM
Its not funny...Its sad... :D
True....very true :D I think more peopel should understand we're a Democratic Republic. It's really sad ppl don't know...ha,ha.

Skrape
11-19-2004, 05:11 PM
The Islamic punishment for purposely breaking the fast is to fast an extra 60 consecutive days or feed 60 hungry people.

I would also like to see this article on a site that has a little more credibility.

It is an Iranian news website. How do you get any more credible then that (for Iranian news) :confused:

Anyways, killing a boy for eating is barbaric.

nitr0x2
11-19-2004, 05:15 PM
It is an Iranian news website. How do you get any more credible then that (for Iranian news) :confused:

Anyways, killing a boy for eating is barbaric.

I cant find anything about this story in yahoo, google, cnn.com, foxnews.com about it. Also, anyone can start a news website. Having the word 'Iran' in the title of the site does not make it a credible source. If anything it makes me more suspicous.

Twiggy316225
11-19-2004, 06:48 PM
...and the Liberals start to leave the woodworks to justify this killing...

...nice...
and.....

Brinn
11-19-2004, 06:59 PM
Why is it that you are not supposed to eat meat on Friday?
I'll try to field this one even though I'm not catholic. It's actually the 40 day period between Mardi Gras and Ash Wednesday that this is supposed to occur. It represents the 40 day Jesus was tempted in the desert. Originally, a catholic was supposed to fast the entire forty days. Then it became a fast on the Fridays. Then no meat only on Fridays. Then no fish only. I believe a Catholic friend told me that now, you only have to give up something you really like on Fridays during this period.

I think the reason the practice deteriorated like this is because people had no discipline to do it as the church originally intended so they changed it.

al-Makhzoomee
11-19-2004, 07:29 PM
First and foremost guys; Don't judge Islaam by it's people, rather judge Islaam by it's Scripture.

If what happened is actually true, than it should be condemend and it's perpertrators should be punished.

That 85 lashes for breaking Sawm (Fast) in Ramadhan is non-existant, I have never heard of it and I've studied Fiqh (Jurisprudence) of Siyaam (Fasting) and Ramadhan, so this is an extreme punishment that isn't founded in the Religion.

drewkowsky
11-19-2004, 07:38 PM
I'll try to field this one even though I'm not catholic. It's actually the 40 day period between Mardi Gras and Ash Wednesday that this is supposed to occur. It represents the 40 day Jesus was tempted in the desert. Originally, a catholic was supposed to fast the entire forty days. Then it became a fast on the Fridays. Then no meat only on Fridays. Then no fish only. I believe a Catholic friend told me that now, you only have to give up something you really like on Fridays during this period.

I think the reason the practice deteriorated like this is because people had no discipline to do it as the church originally intended so they changed it.
Brinn you pretty much nailed it on the head, but I don't think it was ever a 40 day fast, and under the current conditions you are still supposed to abstain from meat on fridays, its also tradition that you abstain from something else as well during Lent(whatever you want)
it was never meant as a law that Jesus decreed, but it was just a sign the Church wanted people to follow to show their faith in God
"Faith without works is dead"

Petey_G
11-19-2004, 07:56 PM
and.....

...and its really pathetic that you tried to justify this savage killing...

Petey_G
11-19-2004, 07:59 PM
First and foremost guys; Don't judge Islaam by it's people, rather judge Islaam by it's Scripture.

If what happened is actually true, than it should be condemend and it's perpertrators should be punished.

That 85 lashes for breaking Sawm (Fast) in Ramadhan is non-existant, I have never heard of it and I've studied Fiqh (Jurisprudence) of Siyaam (Fasting) and Ramadhan, so this is an extreme punishment that isn't founded in the Religion.

How else do you judge a religion then by looking at the people that follow it???

I really love how people are trying to protect Islam by the overused "These people are not TRUE muslims"..."Real Muslims dont do that".... Bull**** people, they are muslims, you need to recognize that this was an act of Islam in peoples persepctive, and your people need to do something to stop thing instead of just sitting around with your thumbs up your *******s.

Brinn
11-19-2004, 08:04 PM
Brinn you pretty much nailed it on the head, but I don't think it was ever a 40 day fast, and under the current conditions you are still supposed to abstain from meat on fridays, its also tradition that you abstain from something else as well during Lent(whatever you want)
it was never meant as a law that Jesus decreed, but it was just a sign the Church wanted people to follow to show their faith in God
"Faith without works is dead"
Heh, I knew that if I threw in everything I heard, something resembling the truth might rear its head. :D

SYRIANKID
11-19-2004, 08:13 PM
No one is ****ting on Ramadan. What everyone is upset about is that they killed him for violating a law.

Everyone in this thread is missing the point, and basically missing the reason WHY such events are highlighted for non-Muslims:

There is no Islamic law or even suggestion that tells you to whip a person for not fasting. This "Muslim" judge acted according to his own whims, without EVIDENCE from the two sources of Islamic legislation.

You people are clawing at the "ruling" before asking the most basic question: where did the guy come up with this stuff? You are once again giving yourself a reason to reject the religion because of what someone ADHERING to this religion arbitrarily decided was CONDONED by the religion. This is clearly illogical, and is an indication that people are more interested in collecting reasons to reject, rather than really being critical questioners and asking themselves "how does this event tell us anything about the reality of the teachings of Islam?"

Why, instead of just jumping the gun and throwing the usual comments about barbarism and whatever, we've heard it all before, don't you stop for a moment, use your intellects, and ask yourselves: could it be that this judge had no Islamic basis for what he did? Could it be that the media is highlighting this event to me so I can draw an even BIGGER X on Islam? Does a judge pulling rulings out of a hat and saying "it is part of Islam" make it a part of Islam when there is no textual evidence for it?

Be LOGICAL. If you're going to reject the religion, understand what it is and study it from that basis. DON'T look at the actions of people acting on its behalf and simply ASSUME that they know what they're talking about.

Assume for example that even if 1.5 Billion Muslims are not falling Islam, it is no excuse to reject Islam BECAUSE of what people are doing. People are accountable for studying the texts themselves, not their apparent manifestations in people. This is basic stuff.

nitr0x2
11-19-2004, 08:19 PM
good post syrian

Also, shouldnt the judge be punished?

drewkowsky
11-19-2004, 08:20 PM
guys in case you couldn't tell by the above post, Syrian Kid is also a Catholic

SYRIANKID
11-19-2004, 08:42 PM
guys in case you couldn't tell by the above post, Syrian Kid is also a Catholic

haha negatory

SYRIANKID
11-19-2004, 08:45 PM
good post syrian

Also, shouldnt the judge be punished?

OBVIOUSLY! These village scholars don't realize how accountable they are every time they make a ruling!

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

Judges are three: two of them in hell, and one in paradise. A man who knows the truth and judges accordingly, he shall go to paradise. A man who judges for people while ignorant, he shall go to hell. And a man who knows the truth but rules unjustly, he shall go to hell

Twiggy316225
11-19-2004, 09:06 PM
...and its really pathetic that you tried to justify this savage killing...
how the kid couldn't wait until sun down and fasting is a big part of the religion

Petey_G
11-19-2004, 09:57 PM
how the kid couldn't wait until sun down and fasting is a big part of the religion

Are so oblious to the fact that they KILLED someone because he ate food before sunset??? Are that ****ing oblivious???

Stop trying to justify this, even Syriankid wont...This is ****ing pathetic.

SYRIANKID
11-19-2004, 10:01 PM
Stop trying to justify this, even Syriankid wont...This is ****ing pathetic.

What's that supposed to mean? What do you mean even Syriankid won't? I'm the one who goes by the book, not by "teams", I don't just apologize for Muslims and make excuses for them WHEN they are clearly wrong?

E-Mang
11-19-2004, 10:02 PM
why? forgive me if I find it hard to believe that the same people who advocate bombing the whole middle east(men, women, and yes 14 and under children,) into a huge plate of glass, actually give a crap about what happens to one 14 year old boy. worse acts are committed here than what happened to that boy, and nobody give a ****, but some other country decides to enforce their own laws, and by God, what an outrage. there is no universal code of ethics, no perfect definition of morality. it is by and large subjective according to each nation/society/culture. and until we stop being hypocrites and looking the other way when we ourselves don't follow the supposed 'moral code' , then there is no justification for judging others on theirs.
..........

Derek0783
11-19-2004, 10:40 PM
Why is this so suprising to everyone? It's as if nobody here has a clue that muslims have used Islamic religion to commit horrific crimes for decades and probably centuries. The religion itself IS obviously flawed. And a flawed religion in an uneducated, gender-biased, mostly-primative society is a very dangerous combination. Luckily, there were some muslims who realized that this specific religious justification for a brutal murder was nothing less than evil and ridiculous. To bad most those muslims who were outraged at the 85 lashing of a 14 year old boy still use their religion to justify other sorts of negative behavior, unethical actions, and backward mindsets.

Many muslims abuse a flawed religion to abuse themselves and others.

Religion, in my opinion, was created and intended to help people figure out right from wrong when times were much more simple. Nowadays, we know right from wrong, and we are too complex for religion because we over analyze it. People of today are like, "This verse could mean that, but this verse could also mean this if used in that context in this situation at that time."

Religion stems from stories. Like in elementary school when you'd listen to a folk tale on the "Reading Rainbow" Tv show right before nap time. Thats where religion should end. If a kid is fascinated by religious stories and teachings, let him take it up as his hobby. Some kids are the sports kids, some kids are the star wars kids, some kids are the pokemon kids, and let some kids be the religious stories kids.

We no longer need religion to teach us right from wrong. All religion, in the general big picture, does is create a justification for hate and everything else negative.

DOWN with Scare-tactic stories of Hell and Frogs raining from the sky, and UP with positive-reinforcement! Kids who get rewarded for doing good, turn out to be better kids than kids who behave out of fear! I mean, do you think the members of KKK and Al Quaida are secure, happy, comfortable men with high-self esteem? OF course not. And neither is any other hate group...and probably all hate groups stem from religion for some weird reason.(which isn't really a weird at all)

Well, except for the Jews. I can't remember the last time a jewish person or major jewish group used the Torah as an outlet for hate and hate crimes.

Hmm...maybe the first testament was on to something...and the second testament was written for an entirely different reason/intent for which the origional bible was written?

Any thoughts?

SYRIANKID
11-19-2004, 10:52 PM
Any thoughts?

Yeah just one. Your whole premise is that what's wrong with the big picture is "Islam". You say Islam is a flawed religion...

My reply to you is: by what basis do you judge Islam? What authority on Truth?

Islam isn't an arbitrary set of rules people got together and decided were cool. Islam is one unchanging bundle of beliefs and laws that define the reality of this life and the relationship of man with God and this life, and the reality of the next life, and the relationship of man with God and the next life.

What links all of these together is that the bundle ALL came through revelation. You can talk all day about why you don't like Islam or think it is flawed or unjust or whatever. That doesn't do anything because the very DEFINITION of perfection and justice is what God says it is. And when someone has evidence from God regarding the Truth of any matter, that's where the matter ends.

The only possible way around this is to DISPROVE the revelation, not by pointing out what you don't like about it, or what you FEEL doesn't match your (arbitrary and subjective) standard for goodness, but looking at the source of the revelation itself: God and the evidence that shows it came from God.

People can hate on Islam till they're blue in the face, that doesn't change anything. This isn't a creed and laws that change when people apply pressure to it. People accept Islam for many reasons, but first and foremost because there are clear proofs for why it was revealed to mankind by God. The only way to go about it is to either accept it all or reject it all. The only way to reject it all is to PROVE it didn't come from God Almighty.

forklift
11-19-2004, 10:53 PM
to Twiggy: get professional help! a young boy was TORTURED AND MURDERED by "legal" orders!!!! are you blind????

to the muslims here: please don't act diplomatic. we want you to come right out and say "that judge, and the guy who beat the boy to death, are complete ass-holes!!"

BE CLEAR. thank you.

and about the truth of the matter: all the other links on that website are 100% correct.

kwyckemynd00
11-19-2004, 10:55 PM
Why is this so suprising to everyone? .....
Any thoughts?

I'd agree and disagree with that post, strictly based off of historical facts.

I'd disagree with it b/c during the dark ages in Europe, when the Romans went from punishing Christians to the Christians having a powerful alliance with the state, many people were murdered, etc. in the name of Christianity. I.E. If a Christian converted to Paganism (a popular ideology of the time) they were killed, etc. Also, the Jews had their day when they persecuted others. After Christianity grew quite a bit, they started to persecute the jewish Christians (just an historical fact--originally, christianity was simply viewed by the jews as a breakoff of the religion and christianity was preached exclusively among the jews).

Now to the part where I agree. I agree that the religion is flawed because simply it's now the year 2000 and many of these theocratic states are showing that an islamic state is not compatible with the current world society and is frankly stuck in the dark ages.

So, I'm torn between agreement and disagreement. I think Islam would be perfectly fine so long as these theocratic states fall because they're poisoning the minds of muslim people. The Imam's and clerics who are preaching ignorance and hate inside of developed countries like the US and many European countries are the direct result of the ignorance and hate the flows from their religious capital of the world. This is especially important because other major religions, such as christianity, do their best to act appropriately according to the times and this message is carried down from the top (i.e. the Pope in Roman Catholicism).

SYRIANKID
11-19-2004, 10:55 PM
to the muslims here: please don't act diplomatic. we want you to come right out and say "that judge, and the guy who beat the boy to death, are complete ass-holes!!"

I don't curse people, but basically: the judge, who caused the boy to die, was completely wrong. He had no authority to do what he did. He has no textual basis in Islam to stand on. There is no Islamic justification for what he did, therefore to say that he acted in accordance with Islam, or has something to do with Islam is by definition BASELESS. He might as well have said "I am a Muslim, I have no idea whether what I'm about to do is allowed in Islam and I don't care, whip that boy"

End of story.

forklift
11-19-2004, 10:58 PM
I don't curse people, but basically: the judge, who caused the boy to die, was completely wrong. He had no authority to do what he did. He has no textual basis in Islam to stand on. There is no Islamic justification for what he did, therefore to say that he acted in accordance with Islam, or has something to do with Islam is by definition BASELESS. He might as well have said "I am a Muslim, I have no idea whether what I'm about to do is allowed in Islam and I don't care, whip that boy"

End of story.thank you!! :)

kwyckemynd00
11-19-2004, 11:00 PM
And the Koreans, and the Libyans, and the Sudanese, and the Lebanese, and the Syrians. Don't forget the Cubans, I heard Castro has stockpiles and stockpiles. I think Russia's on the verge of another communist revolution, let's pre-emptively stop them. Come to think of it, why do we need anything other than the USA? The US should nuke everyone! But then, who would you have to scare Americans with? The republicans need some sort of enemy to come to power! How else will illiterate rednecks continue to win elections?
You're a moron, dude.

I guess we can let Iran get nukes...yep, sounds logical considering they're a major sponsor of terrorism and terrorists ... *sarcasm*

The difference between Russia, and Cuba and the rest are that they do sponsor terrorism (well neither does N. Korea, but they're capable)!!

Your comment about illiterate rednecks just shows your ignorance. I'll let it speak for itself.

Derek0783
11-19-2004, 11:18 PM
I'd agree and disagree with that post, strictly based off of historical facts.

I'd disagree with it b/c during the dark ages in Europe, when the Romans went from punishing Christians to the Christians having a powerful alliance with the state, many people were murdered, etc. in the name of Christianity. I.E. If a Christian converted to Paganism (a popular ideology of the time) they were killed, etc. Also, the Jews had their day when they persecuted others. After Christianity grew quite a bit, they started to persecute the jewish Christians (just an historical fact--originally, christianity was simply viewed by the jews as a breakoff of the religion and christianity was preached exclusively among the jews).

Now to the part where I agree. I agree that the religion is flawed because simply it's now the year 2000 and many of these theocratic states are showing that an islamic state is not compatible with the current world society and is frankly stuck in the dark ages.

So, I'm torn between agreement and disagreement. I think Islam would be perfectly fine so long as these theocratic states fall because they're poisoning the minds of muslim people. The Imam's and clerics who are preaching ignorance and hate inside of developed countries like the US and many European countries are the direct result of the ignorance and hate the flows from their religious capital of the world. This is especially important because other major religions, such as christianity, do their best to act appropriately according to the times and this message is carried down from the top (i.e. the Pope in Roman Catholicism).


I think all folk-tales, fairy-tales, stories with a positive moral are great for kids and adults alike. I don't even mind that societies around the world have formed cultures based on the principles of a few of the best, most brilliant moral story peices ever created, such as the the Bible (1st and 2nd testament), Koran, and all the other great religous books of the world. But, grown human beings are intelligent enough to overanalyze, manipulate, and purposely misinterpret a book meant for good into means for carring out negativity.

Today, many major religions are using violence in the name of the story book their society created or adopted. We see it in Christianity and Islam for the most part. And until we get a grip on whats real and whats not (which may be never), some will benefit from religion while most will only suffer.

Its funny how the religious people are the ones that we find having to justify their religion instead of non-religious people constantly having to justify why they are not religious.

It is as if religion is always on the defense, trying to explain or make sense or their "HOLEY" Stories. - DEREK0783

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 06:55 AM
Religion of peace at work.

BigZeke
11-20-2004, 07:04 AM
Religion of peace at work.

And throwing witches off of cliffs because we thought they were witches is any better? Your post should have read "Religion at work"

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 08:03 AM
And throwing witches off of cliffs because we thought they were witches is any better? Your post should have read "Religion at work"

Never said I supported protestants either.

But the difference lies in that, Christianity is around Jesus and his teachings. Jesus never said “throw witches off cliffs”. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, to accept diversity and teach his word though peace. Never violence. Those Christians that do use violence and murder in ways that Jesus said not to are not acting as Christians, they are acting as barbarians using Christianity as false cover for their actions. Christianity does not condone such actions.

Islam on the other hand demands murder, demands terrorism, demands torture, demands barbaric acts by it’s followers’ “Allah” demands that Muslims murder and kill non-Muslims. He demands that they slay those who do not convert. It’s core tenants is the forceful conversion of the world, and the brutal murder of those who don’t.

Christianity has evolved to create the most advanced and civilized, civilization known to man. Men and women have equal rights, blacks and whites sit on the front of the bus together. We vote for our leaders, you can practice what ever religion you want. Our society is free and civilized, and that has come from Christianity.


Islam has not evolved, it is still practicing the same laws, same social restraints as it was 1000 years ago. Women can not show their skin, they can not leave the house. You can only practice Islam, all others are murdered and driven from their homes. They are ruled by corrupt and oppressive kings and dictatorships. Islam has only caused war and bloodshed evey where it exists around the world.

Christianity at it’s core is peace, civilized and loving.
Islam at it’s core is murderous, barbaric and hateful.

spankey2
11-20-2004, 08:17 AM
hey SYRIANKID no offense man but you just justify every ****ed up thing islam does saying he wasn't really preaching, he was doign wrong but you said that just abaout in every violent this that muslims do, are you ALLAh o who knows it seems like you are the only good muslim that spare love and ****, addmit it man your religion is VIOLENT,AGGRESIVE AND HEARTLESS ok

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 08:18 AM
hey SYRIANKID no offense man but you just justify every ****ed up thing islam does saying he wasn't really preaching, he was doign wrong but you said that just abaout in every violent this that muslims do, are you ALLAh o who knows it seems like you are the only good muslim that spare love and ****, addmit it man your religion is VIOLENT,AGGRESIVE AND HEARTLESS ok

Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

NuggzTheNinja
11-20-2004, 08:23 AM
Renegade, your comments are ignorant and disgusting.

Christianity's core doesn't mean sh-t. You think Christians never beat their children to death? Yeah, right.

They have different ideals and different expectations, different culture and different social mores and such.

All your references to Islam are out of context. If you want me to look through the bible and find some violent statements, I can, and it'll take all of 5 seconds. Well, plus the time it takes to go to the library, because I refuse to buy any religious literature.

Christianity has been used as a legitimating factor to attack Muslims in their homelands (the Crusades), as a legitimating factor for executions (Salem witch trials, Rome under the latter emperors, Spain and the Inquisition, the list goes on and on), it's the same damn thing.

Religion in general is the problem.

Not every Muslim nation or sect is ANYTHING like Afghanistan and the Taliban. It was the regime that made women cover their bodies, not Islam. You could say the same thing of Christians! No sex until marriage? No stem cell research? These things are geared at taking away your freedoms.

If you really think Islam is, at its heart, a violent religion, then you're ignorant of the truth behind MOST religions, not just Islam.

PS: If Spanky's words are a point of opposition, I laugh. Your command of the English language leaves much to be desired. I'm not gonna take you seriously until you use proper grammar and spelling.

spankey2
11-20-2004, 09:01 AM
Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”[/QUOTE]
you know i opposed t the war on irak but with that statment i changer my mind BURN FVUCKIN MUSLIMS BURN you have no respect for me then i will not have respect for you piece of **** go thank you phony god allah alan or whoknows hes crap to me he can suck my cock,with his 57 bitches or **** man you really pissed me off, mods dont ban me its justified whan im saying

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 09:07 AM
Renegade, your comments are ignorant and disgusting.

They are anything but. My comments are truthful and far from ignorant. My family, myself and almost every one I know has been subjected to the violence committed by Muslims. We where driven from our country by violent Muslims only doing what their religion tells them. I do not make blank accusations, every thing I say about Muslims is backed up by both historical facts, religious facts and current events.


Christianity's core doesn't mean sh-t. You think Christians never beat their children to death? Yeah, right.

Christianity’s core is everything. How can you attack the religion straight out if you do not even understand what it is about. What is written on paper only means so much, I agree that it's the actions of it's followers that you should judged it on. But if Islam was all peaceful and loving on paper and Muslims where committing the same crimes they are today, I would not condemn Islam. But Islam is hateful and supports every crime Muslims commit. Christianity supports no crime, it only support violence in self defence, it supports love, equality, diversity and the love of Jesus Christ. unlike Islam which supports the sword of Allah.


They have different ideals and different expectations, different culture and different social mores and such.

Don't put this on "culture". Muslims exist in so many different cultures. There are African Muslims, Arab Muslims, Persian Muslims, Asian Muslims, Indochina Muslims. All different cultures, but all violent and murderous for some reason. The only common between them all is Islam, which is not surprising. Islam demands and supports every crime committed by Muslims.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all came from the same region in the world, all came from the same culture, all came from the same people. Do not play the differences of them on "different cultures". The difference on them are in who created them. Judaism and Christianity were created by God. Though prophets who came to this earth and created his covenants. His prophecies where fulfilled, his commandments followed and the Christian kingdom has prospered.

Islam was created by a greedy ****phile Mohammad. Who claimed he was the Messiah of both Jews and Christians, and after he was rejected by both made up his own religion.

The Prophets of Judaism and Christianity both exist in religion and secular history. Romans, Greeks, Israelites, Arabs all there history speaks of the prophets of Judaism and Christianity, telling the same story as religion texts.

The prophet of Islam exists only in the Qu'ran. No other secular source speaks of Mohammad or his "great works". The only thing that says anything about Mohammad is the Qu'ran, which was written by him.... He was a money hungry greed man who did what he could to get more power. Unfortunately some people where fooled into his cult and it has expanded into the greatest threat to freedom in the world today.


All your references to Islam are out of context.

Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Not really many contexts that can be taken in. Along with the millions of other verse in the Quran supporting violence, murder, torture, terrorism.


If you want me to look through the bible and find some violent statements, I can, and it'll take all of 5 seconds.

Go for it, find me a violent statement in the gospels, find me where Jesus said a violent word or supported violence. You won't. The only violence in the bible exists in the old testament laws, which have been fulfilled and non-applicable for over 2000 years.


Christianity has been used as a legitimating factor to attack Muslims in their homelands (the Crusades)

I suggest you read a book on the Crusades because clearly you don't even know what they where. Or why they happened.

The crusades started after Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Muslims hade been at war with his empire and invading his territory. Christian nations seeing that if his empire fell Muslims would pore into Europe sent troops to help him defend his land against Muslims advances. They pushed back the Muslim invaders and liberated the holy land. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was created. The Following 8 crusades where attempts by the Christian nations to take back land that was conquered by Muslim invades and to defend their territory against Muslim invaders. This "Muslim homeland" was the homeland of Jesus as well, as well as Moses and all the other Jews and Christians. The Christian nations where simply protecting themselves against Muslims invaders. You should be happy they did because if they had not Europe would of fallen to the barbaric hands of Muslims and we would be speaking Arabic, riding camels and beating our wife’s.


Not every Muslim nation or sect is ANYTHING like Afghanistan and the Taliban.

The Taliban was extreme, but the others are not far behind. Saudi Arabia they stone women who show their skin. They wipe boys to death for breaking their fast in Iran. Iraq was just as bad in till the civilised world liberated it. turkey, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Oman, Qatar, QAE, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia they are just as bad, and these are only the nations in which Muslims are in power.

As illustrated by my map, over 140 countries around the world are at war with Muslims who commit acts of terrorism, murder and Jihad as commanded by the Qu'ran. This is not an isolated thing, Muslims are committing acts of terrorism and murder around the world in the name of Allah. It is their religion, they are simply doing what it tells them to.


You could say the same thing of Christians! No sex until marriage?

But we are not stoning women to death for having sex before marriage. We give them a choice, if they break their covenant with god that is between them and God. We do not take their punishment into our own hands as Islam does. We do not wipe boys to death, cut off peoples hands and feet and stone women to death.


If you really think Islam is, at its heart, a violent religion, then you're ignorant

No, the people who are ignorant are the ones who ignore the facts about Islam in the name of "tolerance" or because it's the "trendy" thing to accept people who are different.

Wheelies
11-20-2004, 09:12 AM
They are anything but. My comments are truthful and far from ignorant. My family, myself and almost every one I know has been subjected to the violence committed by Muslims. We where driven from our country by violent Muslims only doing what their religion tells them. I do not make blank accusations, every thing I say about Muslims is backed up by both historical facts, religious facts and current events.



Christianity’s core is everything. How can you attack the religion straight out if you do not even understand what it is about. What is written on paper only means so much, I agree that it's the actions of it's followers that you should judged it on. But if Islam was all peaceful and loving on paper and Muslims where committing the same crimes they are today, I would not condemn Islam. But Islam is hateful and supports every crime Muslims commit. Christianity supports no crime, it only support violence in self defence, it supports love, equality, diversity and the love of Jesus Christ. unlike Islam which supports the sword of Allah.



Don't put this on "culture". Muslims exist in so many different cultures. There are African Muslims, Arab Muslims, Persian Muslims, Asian Muslims, Indochina Muslims. All different cultures, but all violent and murderous for some reason. The only common between them all is Islam, which is not surprising. Islam demands and supports every crime committed by Muslims.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all came from the same region in the world, all came from the same culture, all came from the same people. Do not play the differences of them on "different cultures". The difference on them are in who created them. Judaism and Christianity were created by God. Though prophets who came to this earth and created his covenants. His prophecies where fulfilled, his commandments followed and the Christian kingdom has prospered.

Islam was created by a greedy ****phile Mohammad. Who claimed he was the Messiah of both Jews and Christians, and after he was rejected by both made up his own religion.

The Prophets of Judaism and Christianity both exist in religion and secular history. Romans, Greeks, Israelites, Arabs all there history speaks of the prophets of Judaism and Christianity, telling the same story as religion texts.

The prophet of Islam exists only in the Qu'ran. No other secular source speaks of Mohammad or his "great works". The only thing that says anything about Mohammad is the Qu'ran, which was written by him.... He was a money hungry greed man who did what he could to get more power. Unfortunately some people where fooled into his cult and it has expanded into the greatest threat to freedom in the world today.



Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Not really many contexts that can be taken in. Along with the millions of other verse in the Quran supporting violence, murder, torture, terrorism.



Go for it, find me a violent statement in the gospels, find me where Jesus said a violent word or supported violence. You won't. The only violence in the bible exists in the old testament laws, which have been fulfilled and non-applicable for over 2000 years.



I suggest you read a book on the Crusades because clearly you don't even know what they where. Or why they happened.

The crusades started after Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Muslims hade been at war with his empire and invading his territory. Christian nations seeing that if his empire fell Muslims would pore into Europe sent troops to help him defend his land against Muslims advances. They pushed back the Muslim invaders and liberated the holy land. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was created. The Following 8 crusades where attempts by the Christian nations to take back land that was conquered by Muslim invades and to defend their territory against Muslim invaders. This "Muslim homeland" was the homeland of Jesus as well, as well as Moses and all the other Jews and Christians. The Christian nations where simply protecting themselves against Muslims invaders. You should be happy they did because if they had not Europe would of fallen to the barbaric hands of Muslims and we would be speaking Arabic, riding camels and beating our wife’s.



The Taliban was extreme, but the others are not far behind. Saudi Arabia they stone women who show their skin. They wipe boys to death for breaking their fast in Iran. Iraq was just as bad in till the civilised world liberated it. turkey, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Oman, Qatar, QAE, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia they are just as bad, and these are only the nations in which Muslims are in power.

As illustrated by my map, over 140 countries around the world are at war with Muslims who commit acts of terrorism, murder and Jihad as commanded by the Qu'ran. This is not an isolated thing, Muslims are committing acts of terrorism and murder around the world in the name of Allah. It is their religion, they are simply doing what it tells them to.



But we are not stoning women to death for having sex before marriage. We give them a choice, if they break their covenant with god that is between them and God. We do not take their punishment into our own hands as Islam does. We do not wipe boys to death, cut off peoples hands and feet and stone women to death.



No, the people who are ignorant are the ones who ignore the facts about Islam in the name of "tolerance" or because it's the "trendy" thing to accept people who are different.


I agree with your arguement towards Islam, but disagree that Christianity is anymore "real" than any of the other fairy tale religions

NuggzTheNinja
11-20-2004, 09:14 AM
Is it also trendy to "wipe boys"?

What about the Spanish Inquisition? You have a skewed knowledge of history.

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 09:15 AM
I agree with your arguement towards Islam, but disagree that Christianity is anymore "real" than any of the other fairy tale religions

And that’s your choice, luckily for you Christians give you that choice. If you where living in an Islamic country you would have to be Muslim, or they would cut of your hands and feet and stone you to death and the Qu’ran commands them to. As Christians it is our duty to tell you of the love of Jesus Christ. To inform you of his salvation, but it is your choice to accept it or not. Unlike Islam we do not put a sword to your neck and force you to convert before we cut your head off. Christianity spreads though peace and choice.

They say “Islam is the 2nd fasted growing religion”. That’s only because in most parts of the worlds where Islam is expanding, they are conquering lands and forcing the inhabitants to convert. Telling them that they can either become Muslims or be shot (or often times even worse)

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 09:21 AM
Is it also trendy to "wipe boys"?

What about the Spanish Inquisition? You have a skewed knowledge of history.

I respond to every thing you say, you could at least have the same respect, or admit I am right.

The Spanish inquisition was a gorse miscarriage of the power of the Catholic Church. It in no way reflects Christianity, just as the Jewish leaders who killed Jesus did not reflect Judaism.

Evil exists in all ranks and files of every corner of this earth. It infiltrated the church and committed those acts.

I never claimed Christianity was innocent of it’s atrocities. But the few that Christianity have been responsible for have been isolated innocents.

The Spanish Inquisitor occurred after Christians retook Spain from the Muslim conquers. It was an attempt to convert the Muslims and Jews. Unfortunately they went about it the wrong way, there is no justifying it. But this one innocent (or all the innocents of Christianity) does not even come close to being equal to the constant and sustained atrocities committed by Islam from it’s beginning. The very basic tenants of Islam are violent and murderous. Christianity teaches no such thing, and has not been practiced in such a way for hundreds of years.


If the best you have against Christianity is an event that happened in 15th century spain, you shouldn’t even try.

NuggzTheNinja
11-20-2004, 09:51 AM
I understand what you're saying, but atrocities are like ass holes, every religion has one.

I know plenty of Muslims who are cool. By and large, they're cool people.

The distinction I want YOU to make, is that religion and the manipulation of religion by people in power are very very different flavors. Any religious group, or even secular group, can be led to do horrible things by its leaders. Even in the absence is religion, violence can occur.

The fact that Islam is used to justify murder is a big deal, but no more so than the use of ANY RELIGION to justify murder.

Religion in general is the problem, not any specific one. Every religion is dirty.

Don't try to single out Muslims. Islam is a major religion in many turbulent societies in the world, specifically East of Europe (the Balkans to the Middle East) and in some African countries, like Samolia, but have you ever thought that its socioeconomic problems that lead to violence in these countries??

Samolia is run by warlords. Religion aside, it's a violent society. Let's look at the average Samolian soldier's list of sh-t to do today: get all f-cked up on Khat, and go kill some rival warlord's soldiers.

Violence didn't start with Islam, and it sure as hell wouldn't end with the extinction of Islam from the world, so stop trying to say that all Muslims are evil and all Christians are godly beings. They're both far from the respective stereotypes that you give them.

And I'm pretty sure that America wipes its children as well...as is the hallmark of a civilized society: a clean ass.

PS: as long as there's beef in the Middle East, and everybody in the States is scared sh-tless of chemical and biological weapons, I'll be guaranteed a stable job that pays a lot, so I have more to lose via peace than via fear and war. Just so you know. ;)

Wheelies
11-20-2004, 10:04 AM
Dont you think it would be alot easier if we just gave up ALL Religion? I mean, look at you guys, arguing for paragraphs or some made up fantasy world , its amazing.

redneckbandit2
11-20-2004, 10:46 AM
this is one of those things that u think might make ppl change their minds and realize how horrible and crude these ppl are.but no.

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 10:56 AM
this is one of those things that u think might make ppl change their minds and realize how horrible and crude these ppl are.but no.

Being dogmatically “tolerant” is the liberal lefts new social trend. Soon they will be fighting for the rights of ****philes (although Islam allows 40 year old men to marry and rape 8 year old girls so they are close already)

NuggzTheNinja
11-20-2004, 10:56 AM
Say that again, next time somebody on Sally Jessy complains that their husband beats them for not making dinner on time...

And what of the sex scandals of the Catholic church??? It's not OK for heterosexual child molestation, but homosexual child molestation is fine?? Talk about closemindedness.

big bubba
11-20-2004, 11:24 AM
Well, except for the Jews. I can't remember the last time a jewish person or major jewish group used the Torah as an outlet for hate and hate crimes.

Here is the website of Israeli black metal horde Golgolot. Seems pretty hateful if you ask me.
http://listen.to/golgolot

kwyckemynd00
11-20-2004, 11:32 AM
....Christianity has been used as a legitimating factor to attack Muslims in their homelands (the Crusades), as a legitimating factor for executions (Salem witch trials, Rome under the latter emperors, Spain and the Inquisition, the list goes on and on), it's the same damn thing....
There are two big misconceptions. The Christians didn't just go out on Crusades trying to convert the world. Rome lost some power and the empire started to fall. What happened was at the time, Muslims were running amuck capturing these Christian holy sites. Sites that contained such Christian architecture as the Hagia Sophia, a very important church to the Christians. So the Christians took off in an attempt to oust the Muslim's, thousands of miles from the head of their now crumbled empire, and tried to convert people on the way. Their efforts failed. But, the point was that muslims didn't have a homeland at the time. Islam was relatively new and "took" it's new homeland from a broken empire.

Religion is also not the problem, the tie between "Church and State" is the problem. In all of these instances you speak of, including modern day Islamic radicalism, the tie between Church and State is the problem!! It's not religion--and I'm not a religious person. I just think it's ridiculous and ignorant for people to blame it on religion. The problem is simply, when a State begins to practice an ideology that is extremely popular amongst it's citizens and they decide to forcibly carry out that ideology around the globe. The Muslims tried it with the Ottoman empire, the Christians to a lesser extent with the Crusades, and Hitler tried it with his Aryan race. It's not the religion, but a link between blind ideology and the state. You could have called nationalism in Germany a religion at the time, therefore you basically could have again called that a link between church and state.

EDIT: Well, I just re-read the list, not every instancew as church-state ;)

Derek0783
11-20-2004, 12:11 PM
See! RENEGADE!,


Being dogmatically “tolerant” is the liberal lefts new social trend. Soon they will be fighting for the rights of ****philes (although Islam allows 40 year old men to marry and rape 8 year old girls so they are close already)

Thanks to Christianity, you now have a political agenda envoked by religious leaders under the pretence that if the Liberals win the "War on Morals" ****philes will be defended.

Don't you see, even you have fallen victim to the manipulations of the bible. You and most of Christianity, are waging you're own political "war", if you will, against others, not in the physical marter sense like the Muslims, but it is still the same exact concept.

....and you say Christianity is all love, peace and diversity...hahahahhah

The truth comes out, you're just another Religious hypocrit.



Christianity has evolved to create the most advanced and civilized, civilization known to man. Men and women have equal rights, blacks and whites sit on the front of the bus together. We vote for our leaders, you can practice what ever religion you want. Our society is free and civilized, and that has come from Christianity.

Um...just what the hell are they feeding you in the church these days. Christianity did not evolve to create the most advanced and civilized, civilization known to man! The colonists who settled here in 1620-1630s were merchants, servants, freemen, and religious separatists. How can you say it was Christianity that fought for equality when it was the average White Christian who was oppressing blacks. How can you say it was Christianity that led to blacks and whites sitting on buses together when it was white male christians who were the ones locking blacks up and beating them with their clubs all up and down the streets!? Our society is not as civilized as it should or could be, and America does not owe the Christian religion for the civilized way of life or equality and tolerance. We owe the men and women who fought for freedom and equality and peace, not the religion of Christianity.

This political agenda that Christianity has in America is only going to get more and more fierce and intense. The more they feel their faith slipping away, the more they will envoke fear and provoke a divided nation. Sort of like how the KKK and hate groups work. Research shows they, the hate groups, are the way they are because they have ignorant fears of another race taking over and wiping them out of existance. Turn on the religious channel for a couple days...you will see how they turn everything religious thing into a political agenda. Its sad and scary, but that is the sign that they are becoming fearful, desperate, and not sure as to the future of their religion, sort of how many hate groups feel about their race.

NuggzTheNinja
11-20-2004, 12:23 PM
I peeped out the Golgolot webpage. It's absolutely hilarious. The music is absolutely terrible. Death metal sucks, but this is particularly sh-tty even for death metal.

As a Jew, that website and those people are straight up embarassing.

I hope they post my guestbook message:

"You know dogg, evil people don't have message boards. They have wooden boards, that they run nails through and beat people with. You guys are ugly pure fat no muscle pigs, pissed off at the world. Grow up, cut your hair, and sell your instruments that you don't know how to play anyway. If you were really sabras, you'd be in the military playing around with guns, not guitars"

BigZeke
11-20-2004, 12:53 PM
But the difference lies in that, Christianity is around Jesus and his teachings. Jesus never said “throw witches off cliffs”. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, to accept diversity and teach his word though peace. Never violence. Those Christians that do use violence and murder in ways that Jesus said not to are not acting as Christians, they are acting as barbarians using Christianity as false cover for their actions. Christianity does not condone such actions.

Replace 'Christianity' with 'Islam' and 'Jesus' with 'Allah and you have the same thing SyrianKid posts about the actions that certain muslims take.

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 01:20 PM
Replace 'Christianity' with 'Islam' and 'Jesus' with 'Allah and you have the same thing SyrianKid posts about the actions that certain muslims take.

Unfortunately Allah tells them to murder, he tells them to commit terrorism, he supports every action committed by Muslims around the world. Jesus supports no violence, and no one will ever be able to prove different. All you have to do is open up a Qu'ran to see the barbaric nature of Islam.

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 01:24 PM
Thanks to Christianity, you now have a political agenda envoked by religious leaders under the pretence that if the Liberals win the "War on Morals" ****philes will be defended.

And what would make us think any different?

Already they created and support the holocaust of our unborn children, over 12 million babies are murdered each year in North America by abortionanists (thats twice as many Jews that the Nazis killed).

Already Homosexuals are allowed to spread their propaganda in our schools, indoctrinating children as young as 6. They are allowed to marry, to adopt children and they have created such a stigma around being against homosexuals that it's almost impossible to say a word against a homosexual or their "lifestyle" and expect to stay in public officer.

When they have done all that with out being in power, what would make us thing that if they where to gain power they would not be giving rights to every peace of scum left right and center protecting their "lifestyle". Where do they draw the line?


Don't you see, even you have fallen victim to the manipulations of the bible. You and most of Christianity, are waging you're own political "war", if you will, against others

What manipulations have I fallen victim to? Political wars is the point of democracy. I find it disgusting that you compare the civilized political battle within the catholic church to the barbaric acts of Islam.

We are not stoning each other because we disagree how many virgins we will get after we suicide bomb some Israeli children.


...and you say Christianity is all love, peace and diversity...hahahahhah

The truth comes out, you're just another Religious hypocrit.

Show me where Jesus taught differently?


Christianity did not evolve to create the most advanced and civilized, civilization known to man! The colonists who settled here in 1620-1630s were merchants, servants, freemen, and religious separatists.

.... hmmm.... I wonder where those people came from.... Christian Europe.

Christianity developed Europe, North America and for a smaller part South America. Be it what they where when the settled here in the 1600's, the demographics of America and Europe is fairly obvious, and go back 100, 200, 300 years it was even more Christian.


How can you say it was Christianity that fought for equality when it was the average White Christian who was oppressing blacks.

Majority of the oppression was committed by southern protestants, who are not Christians.

Even so, who was it that fought against slavery? The church. The Catholic church was the main supporter of equal women’s rights in voting, was the main supporting of anti-segregation groups.

Martin Luther king... Christian. I bet almost every black at the time in America was Christian or Protestant.


America does not owe the Christian religion for the civilized way of life or equality and tolerance.

Yes it does, our morals, laws all come from Christianity. Most of our technological advances come from Christianity.


We owe the men and women who fought for freedom and equality and peace

And they fought against an oppressive British rule that went against the teaching of Jesus.

honeybbqgrundle
11-20-2004, 02:00 PM
Unfortunately Allah tells them to murder, he tells them to commit terrorism, he supports every action committed by Muslims around the world. Jesus supports no violence, and no one will ever be able to prove different. All you have to do is open up a Qu'ran to see the barbaric nature of Islam.

From the quotes I read it seems like they just support killing their enemies who go to war with them. People don't take you seriously because you have an agenda anyway, and your quotes could be out of context or simply not apply today.

"Do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation [Christians and Jews for those who don't know] otherwise than in a most kindly manner--unless it be such of them as are bent on evil-doing-- and say: "We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you; for our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves."

Quran 29:46

"there shall be no coercion in matters of faith"

Quran 2:256

So it's easy to make the religion look good or bad, especially since the world was much different when it was written. I suggest if you're going to attack a religion, at least attack all of them, especially the one in which all humans since the beginning of recorded history have been denied paradise on Earth because 2 people sinned, and the God basically killed a man's family and livelihood and covered him with sores and boils just to test him. What's so much better about that?

The Kurgan
11-20-2004, 02:13 PM
Renegade_Master, you must admit your country was founded by non-Christians. Why else would they appoint a Universalist as the army chaplin? Thomas Paine was a notorious non-Christian. Deism seemed to be very common.

However, I've never formally studied this section of history, so I may well be wrong.

Bionik
11-20-2004, 02:36 PM
Renegade_Master, you must admit your country was founded by non-Christians. Why else would they appoint a Universalist as the army chaplin? Thomas Paine was a notorious non-Christian. Deism seemed to be very common.

However, I've never formally studied this section of history, so I may well be wrong.

Our country was founded by a combination of Christians and Deists.


Thanks to Christianity, you now have a political agenda envoked by religious leaders under the pretence that if the Liberals win the "War on Morals" ****philes will be defended.

Don't you see, even you have fallen victim to the manipulations of the bible. You and most of Christianity, are waging you're own political "war", if you will, against others, not in the physical marter sense like the Muslims, but it is still the same exact concept.

....and you say Christianity is all love, peace and diversity...hahahahhah

The truth comes out, you're just another Religious hypocrit.


Nice ad hominem fallacy, pal.

Anyway, Renegade is correct about the left and their extensive and irrational defense of Machiavellian multi-culturalist ideals. To some liberals, in their state of nihilism, any act is justified so long as it coincides with a given cultural or societal norm. Morality based on conformity and not reason abounds from the left side of the spectrum, as it differs from the more Lockean right.

1) Brutal totalitarian dictatorship? That's FINE! It's part of their culture!
2) Mutilating female genitalia in Africa, most often against the female's will? Aww, don't hate on them! Be TOLERANT of their culture!
3) Terrorists? Don't fight them! We've got to UNDERSTAND them... we must EMBRACE them!
4) Oppression of women and minority groups in other regimes and governments? RESPECT THEIR CULTURAL ROOTS, YOU AMERICAN PIG!

Anyone see a trend?

nitr0x2
11-20-2004, 02:38 PM
2) Mutilating female genitalia in Africa, most often against the female's will? Aww, don't hate on them! Be TOLERANT of their culture!



Female genital mutilation is outlawed in Islam just so you know.

Bionik
11-20-2004, 02:43 PM
Female genital mutilation is outlawed in Islam just so you know.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't talking about Islam, though.

honeybbqgrundle
11-20-2004, 02:49 PM
1) Brutal totalitarian dictatorship? That's FINE! It's part of their culture!
2) Mutilating female genitalia in Africa, most often against the female's will? Aww, don't hate on them! Be TOLERANT of their culture!
3) Terrorists? Don't fight them! We've got to UNDERSTAND them... we must EMBRACE them!
4) Oppression of women and minority groups in other regimes and governments? RESPECT THEIR CULTURAL ROOTS, YOU AMERICAN PIG!

Anyone see a trend?
It's more like:

1) brutal totalitarian dictatorship? What does that have to do with us? I thought other countries don't matter to us yet we should be the world police?

2) that's terrible, but are we going to watch every primitive culture every second of every day so they don't sew up some girl's cooch? Is that reasonable?

3) Why not try to understand them while fighting them at the same time? You have a problem and you don't seek to understand it's cause? Sounds pretty stupid to me.

4) See number 1. Plus our country only allowed women to vote 80 years ago, we're not so high and mighty.

Good luck solving all of the world's problems, I just hope Superman isn't too busy.

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 02:53 PM
Renegade_Master, you must admit your country was founded by non-Christians. Why else would they appoint a Universalist as the army chaplin? Thomas Paine was a notorious non-Christian. Deism seemed to be very common.

However, I've never formally studied this section of history, so I may well be wrong.


I'm from Yugoslavia. The basis of this country, North America and modern Europe is all Christianity.

Bionik
11-20-2004, 02:55 PM
It's more like:

1) brutal totalitarian dictatorship? What does that have to do with us? I thought other countries don't matter to us yet we should be the world police?

2) that's terrible, but are we going to watch every primitive culture every second of every day so they don't sew up some girl's cooch? Is that reasonable?

3) Why not try to understand them while fighting them at the same time? You have a problem and you don't seek to understand it's cause? Sounds pretty stupid to me.

4) See number 1. Plus our country only allowed women to vote 80 years ago, we're not so high and mighty.

Good luck solving all of the world's problems, I just hope Superman isn't too busy.

Too bad you failed to see that i was addressing acceptance of the said institutions and not by necessity any course of action in response to them.

Renegade Master
11-20-2004, 02:57 PM
All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to sit and do nothing.

That’s exactly what the left would have us do.

honeybbqgrundle
11-20-2004, 03:12 PM
Too bad you failed to see that i was addressing acceptance of the said institutions and not by necessity any course of action in response to them.

Too bad there's hardly anybody who condones things like that but you make it out to be some epidemic where people defend them. Saying that liberals or the left think like you said they do is like people saying all the red states are racist and bigots.

There has to be some form of acceptance if only because it's out of our control to stop. But not many people agree with those things.

kwyckemynd00
11-20-2004, 03:13 PM
All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to sit and do nothing.

That’s exactly what the left would have us do.
Hey, that's a good one ;)

Bionik
11-20-2004, 03:23 PM
Too bad there's hardly anybody who condones things like that but you make it out to be some epidemic where people defend them. Saying that liberals or the left think like you said they do is like people saying all the red states are racist and bigots.

There has to be some form of acceptance if only because it's out of our control to stop. But not many people agree with those things.

Right, but I never stated it was an epidemic -- merely that it was more common for a leftist to defend such practices.

Just make it easier on yourself and say, "I don't like what you posted."

honeybbqgrundle
11-20-2004, 04:20 PM
Right, but I never stated it was an epidemic -- merely that it was more common for a leftist to defend such practices.

Just make it easier on yourself and say, "I don't like what you posted."

It's not that I don't like it because I agree that those things are bad, as most people would, but it just seemed like you were trying to pin it on all leftists. If you weren't then that's cool and I just misunderstood :)

nitr0x2
11-20-2004, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the info. I wasn't talking about Islam, though.

you're welcome, glad i could help :)

Derek0783
11-20-2004, 05:14 PM
I just realized, there is no way out of these threads.

These amateur religious fanatics in here do nothing but contradict themselves and I don't know how I find myself getting all tangled up in these threads. I have to try to stay away from this crap.

Twiggy316225
11-20-2004, 05:25 PM
to Twiggy: get professional help! a young boy was TORTURED AND MURDERED by "legal" orders!!!! are you blind????

to the muslims here: please don't act diplomatic. we want you to come right out and say "that judge, and the guy who beat the boy to death, are complete ass-holes!!"

BE CLEAR. thank you.

and about the truth of the matter: all the other links on that website are 100% correct.
why should i get professional help? i know it was wrong but fasting is one of the five pillars of islam so it is a big deal to break fasting.

bornagainalco
11-20-2004, 10:32 PM
Shows how compassionate and loving that religion is......

Sure....it's all about peace and brotherhood.....unless of course you're of a different race, religion or nationality, or if you worship the wrong invisible man.
Christianity was burning ppl at the stake until only a few hundred years ago for less than that.

DefenderOfFaith
11-20-2004, 10:39 PM
Christianity was burning ppl at the stake until only a few hundred years ago for less than that.
The Roman Catholic Church burned people on the stake.

Derek0783
11-21-2004, 12:21 AM
The Roman Catholic Church burned people on the stake.

Yes, in the name of religion/God/Moral Value....

kwyckemynd00
11-21-2004, 12:27 AM
why should i get professional help? i know it was wrong but fasting is one of the five pillars of islam so it is a big deal to break fasting.
Now I agree...you need help. You can start by peeling yourself off the tree you're hugging and slowly and calmly make your way out of la la land back into the real world. When you get here, see a psychiatrist. :D Ok, so I took that too far.

Understand, the Muslims here say that nowhere in their faith is death an acceptable punishment for a child breaking a fast. That being said, why in the hell do we have to understand that "fasting is one of the five pillars of islam so it is a big deal to break fasting" and accept the childs death and justify the act??? It makes no sense!!