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mockba
11-07-2004, 08:31 AM
Am I racist if I say I don't want other people to move into Britain?

Can someone give me some good reasons, aside from escaping persecution, for the immigration?

DRUNK83
11-07-2004, 08:36 AM
Nope. It's not racist. You want to preserve your country, culture, and history. Unfortunately, England is becoming a lost cause.

You have a huge immigration problem. I mean, you live in a relatively small island. How many people can you guys take?

Besides, what good have the immgirants provided your county? It seems as if they've done only harm.

Tim
11-07-2004, 10:04 AM
Am I racist if I say I don't want other people to move into Britain?

Can someone give me some good reasons, aside from escaping persecution, for the immigration?
No, you are not. I am also against immigration into European countries, though I am not against immigration to America, since America is a country founded on immigration, where almost everyone is a descendant of immigrants. I think that too much immigration into a European country can eventually undermine the country's ethnic and cultural identity. I would really like to see Turks and Yugoslavs stop immigrating to Germany, which is my other country (I have duel citizenship). I totally understand how you feel the same way about England.

404gb30044
11-07-2004, 10:05 AM
so if i wanted to go to a country.say bosnia then i should be banned because im black what load of sh** it that ?

matty_UK
11-07-2004, 10:05 AM
Am I racist if I say I don't want other people to move into Britain?


No,absolutley not.

DRUNK83
11-07-2004, 10:42 AM
though I am not against immigration to America, since America is a country founded on immigration, where almost everyone is a descendant of immigrants.

We need to shut the borders and solidify as a nation, or else we're going to be in serious trouble.

I'm against immigration to the US. We are losing our identity. These ethnic groups in years past tried to participate in American society. They learned English. They were proud to become Americans.

Nowadays people come here and set up their own mini country. They don't try to learn English and they don't try to fit it.

Most of them badmouth America all the time. They are mostly here for the money. They hate the rest of us.

Not to get racist, so don't accuse me, but then the projected population makeup of your country shows that the founding race of the country is becoming the minority, then you know there is a huge problem.

The Kurgan
11-07-2004, 11:05 AM
I'm not concerned about race but I am worried about overpopulation. People are getting worried due to the fear of underpopulation here, but I don't think this is a bad thing. We don't have to get immigrants, but instead we should do this-

1. Tighten government pensions. An older population shouldn't mean the young pay for the old.

2. Encourage agriculture.

Confused? I'm thinking of a way to get round many of the problems we may be facing in this century. When the old from the baby boom die off, the young will be left with a bigger slice of the cake. I see these 2 steps as a way around both peak oil, which even oil companies admit is coming in the next 30 years, and the so called pensions crisis. More food and less mouths equals less hunger.

MISTERDUDE
11-07-2004, 11:34 AM
so if i wanted to go to a country.say bosnia then i should be banned because im black what load of sh** it that ?

No. If they have banned immigration, that means white people can't immigrate there either. A guy from England couldn't just say "Oh, I think I want to move to Bosnia" because they wouldn't let him.



As for the question, England does have a problem with immigration that even rivals that of the U.S. The problem is that they let people in, and then give them a substantial amount of welfare if they can't get a job. Its almost that bad here in the U.S.......why would someone coming from Pakistan want to get a job, when they are living more comfortably than ever before on government hand outs? That would have to change before the immigration problem could be solved.

I think this issue needs to be addressed more strongly in England and in the U.S. Bush is pretty weak on the border so I doubt it will be addressed while he is in office.

Tim
11-07-2004, 11:38 AM
We need to shut the borders and solidify as a nation, or else we're going to be in serious trouble.

I'm against immigration to the US. We are losing our identity. These ethnic groups in years past tried to participate in American society. They learned English. They were proud to become Americans.

Nowadays people come here and set up their own mini country. They don't try to learn English and they don't try to fit it.

Most of them badmouth America all the time. They are mostly here for the money. They hate the rest of us.

Not to get racist, so don't accuse me, but then the projected population makeup of your country shows that the founding race of the country is becoming the minority, then you know there is a huge problem.True. There is even talk about in the future making Spanish the second official language of the US. I hope that never happens. Latin Americans can immigrate, but they must lean English, and there is no way in hell America should make Spanish another official language for them.

mockba
11-07-2004, 12:17 PM
so if i wanted to go to a country.say bosnia then i should be banned because im black what load of sh** it that ?

No, you should be banned because:

(a) you are not being persecuted
(b) you are not Bosnian

mockba
11-07-2004, 12:28 PM
I can't phrase it so it sounds right but I think people should stick to where they come from so each race is pure.. and yeah I know the word "pure" sounds wrong but I can't think of any other way to put it.

because either two things happen when people immigrate:

(a) they DO integrate into society and I guess this leads to parents from different races having children, and if this happens for a long time then everyone will look the same, and we will have traded lots of good cultures for just one and lose our identities

(b) they DON'T integrate, where they are only here for the money and otherwise would be at home. this is what it's like in some UK towns like Oldham where they have the riots, I went up there a few days ago and saw whole streets of people wearing their head scarf things and there was arabic graffiti everywhere.

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 12:34 PM
Can someone give me some good reasons, aside from escaping persecution, for the immigration?

Capitalism is the main reason:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/business/

Most immigrants are poor, but that's usually because a rich relative helped them enter the country (because citizens have some priveledges like that).

Essentially, most immigration is to boost the economy, inevitably some immigrants get dragged in as family members of richer ones and end up on the social shield, but that's only so it doesn't COMPLETELY look like people are being brought in because they're rich.

Most of these nations in the 18th-19th century were built with wealthy immigrants taking their money to new areas. I think that's the reason it is encouraged DESPITE how people want to protect the "purity" of their culture and society.

The economy doesn't acknowledge the above things, it only acknowledges net worth of immigrants / total immigrants. If that's a positive number, keep them coming.

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 12:37 PM
(b) they DON'T integrate, where they are only here for the money and otherwise would be at home. this is what it's like in some UK towns like Oldham where they have the riots, I went up there a few days ago and saw whole streets of people wearing their head scarf things and there was arabic graffiti everywhere.

Yes I here there is a gigantic Muslim population in England.

But let me ask you something, why does "integration" to you imply "removing the headscarf?"

Does the idea of a woman covering her head for religious purposes personally annoy you? How about beards? :)

mockba
11-07-2004, 12:38 PM
Yes I here there is a gigantic Muslim population in England.

But let me ask you something, why does "integration" to you imply "removing the headscarf?"

Does the idea of a woman covering her head for religious purposes personally annoy you? How about beards? :)

It is a visual sign that they are not actually British.

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 12:40 PM
It is a visual sign that they are not actually British.

British is a nationality. Can't you be Muslim AND British?

In England, there's a HUGE population of Jews as well. It's pretty clear when a Hasidic Jew walks around that he's Jewish, do you think they have to remove the religious garb as well?

mockba
11-07-2004, 12:51 PM
British is a nationality. Can't you be Muslim AND British?

In England, there's a HUGE population of Jews as well. It's pretty clear when a Hasidic Jew walks around that he's Jewish, do you think they have to remove the religious garb as well?

I'm not saying they should remove it, I'm saying they shouldn't be in the country in the first place unless they are persecuted.

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 12:55 PM
I'm not saying they should remove it, I'm saying they shouldn't be in the country in the first place unless they are persecuted.

But those kinds of anti-immigration laws go against Capitalism, which is the whole BASIS of the countries we're talking about.

Essentially people are buying their right to live there, what kind of law in Capitalism can disallow that? How do you tell a Capitalistic government that "well, I know I'm asking you to lower your GDP, but I feel uncomfortable with the different looking people here".

As they say: when the point of organization is "money-making" nobody listens to you unless you make "cents".

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 12:57 PM
I can understand what you're saying though:

Different looking people, wearing different things, different language in the streets, different food.

You look at them in your country and you feel they are DRAINING it of resources and stealing "something" without giving anything back.

Your government would tell you that they're giving back "dollars". The fact that they are renting apartments and buying from the grocery store = good, as for as the gov is concerned.

mockba
11-07-2004, 01:28 PM
But those kinds of anti-immigration laws go against Capitalism, which is the whole BASIS of the countries we're talking about.

Essentially people are buying their right to live there, what kind of law in Capitalism can disallow that? How do you tell a Capitalistic government that "well, I know I'm asking you to lower your GDP, but I feel uncomfortable with the different looking people here".

As they say: when the point of organization is "money-making" nobody listens to you unless you make "cents".

But a country can be capitalist with restrictions on labour mobility. You can have call centres in India and factories in China working for western countries. And even in the cases where people must move to the UK, eg. setting up a cornershop because there is a gap in the market and profit can be made, I don't think it is right. That gap should be filled by someone else, although they might be less eager to fill it.

Capitalism should have bounds - countries can be capitalist while their governments have nationalised health services. We don't have private mercenary armies or tolls on all our streets but we are still a capitalist country.

mockba
11-07-2004, 01:31 PM
I can understand what you're saying though:

Different looking people, wearing different things, different language in the streets, different food.

You look at them in your country and you feel they are DRAINING it of resources and stealing "something" without giving anything back.

Your government would tell you that they're giving back "dollars". The fact that they are renting apartments and buying from the grocery store = good, as for as the gov is concerned.

It's not about money, though. In the UK, I read that education paid for by foreign students in colleges and universities is the third largest export. But I still don't want everyone to lose their diversity. I don't want my descendants to visit Asia and Africa and it be like visiting the town down the road because all the cultures will be mixed into one.

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 01:38 PM
But a country can be capitalist with restrictions on labour mobility. You can have call centres in India and factories in China working for western countries. And even in the cases where people must move to the UK, eg. setting up a cornershop because there is a gap in the market and profit can be made, I don't think it is right. That gap should be filled by someone else, although they might be less eager to fill it.

Capitalism should have bounds - countries can be capitalist while their governments have nationalised health services. We don't have private mercenary armies or tolls on all our streets but we are still a capitalist country.

It completely goes against capitalism to say "we should NOT make maximum profit because..."

The sentence alone goes against Capitalism. That's essentially what "immigration laws" would mean. Yes you can RESTRICT immigration, but that's usually because you want to restrict CERTAIN immigrants because it's MORE profitable. Otherwise, if a guy has money, and he wants to buy the house next to you, the gov would push you over and tell the other guy "welcome, son"

Illuminati
11-07-2004, 01:43 PM
yeah I had to spend some time in england recently, and wow, sometimes I see more minorities than whites in the streets. The same problem is happening in america, the mexicans are taking over... however, ill point you to this issue... immigration happens for two main causes.. persecution, and seeking a better life... i would say that capitalism is what causes the immigration movements... the western countries like to use all the benefits of immigration, cheap local labor, a pool of taxable income upon which to draw income, not to mention raping all 3rd world countries, of their resources and labor, in order to provide for the lifestyle in which you live... So if you dont like immigration, i suggest you basically 1) stop buying all non-british goods, 2) prepare yourself to be a trash sweeper or a data entry person because you will be filling the jobs minorities do, i.e. the jobs whites dont want, and 3) convince everyone else in your country to do the same... if you are not willing to do that, then you basically have no right to complain about immigration... also, about germany in particular, something is quite amusing. Germany, and the rest of europe is following suit, but germany is right there.. germanys population is aging rapidly. The birth rate of native germans means that they will not be producing enough working age males by the time the current generation comes into retirement, which means the social welfare systems will grind to a halt, and basically chaos will ensue... germany NEEDS those turkish workers who they love to complain about, because if not, they will quite simply have no way to support their economy. That is why we are such a great economic power vesus europe, because europe chose to be closed off and static... america is dynamic, we welcome change and we embrace it for the better... europe resists any attempts to change or modernize.. so europeans are going to be in big trouble in the near future unless something drastic changes

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 01:44 PM
It's not about money, though. In the UK, I read that education paid for by foreign students in colleges and universities is the third largest export. But I still don't want everyone to lose their diversity. I don't want my descendants to visit Asia and Africa and it be like visiting the town down the road because all the cultures will be mixed into one.

What percent of the world is "caucasian" like 10-20%?

What happens genetically when a caucasian and non-Caucasian have children? The child cannot be caucasian.

As a world statistic, caucasians have the lowest birth-rate AND decreasing demographics because of the "cultural mixing" you're talking about.

The problem, as I understand from you, isn't that there are immigrants. It's the inter-marriage that's going on. Is that correct?

Technically speaking, it's completely possible that ZERO caucasians exist if this continues.

The Bodybuilder
11-07-2004, 02:54 PM
I heard on Sky News before that in Arizona, USA ....about 1000 illegal immigrants from mexico cross the border everyday.

The Bodybuilder
11-07-2004, 02:56 PM
Anyway concerning England. Tony Blair and the foreign secretary David Blunkett have ruined this country!!!

teewoods
11-07-2004, 03:09 PM
Many people like to hide behind the phrase 'immigrants' instead of "race'. Being British, English or down right Anglo. We have had a history of many immigrants. The Jews were immigrants but now can pass off as British because they blend perfectly well since they are white. However, the problem in the UK and many countries is not so much immigration but which type of immigrants we have.

White South Africans, Aussies. Kiwis or even East Europeans (Caucasian) wont be frowned up like Arabs, Blacks, Pakistanis et al. The poster used the term 'racist' to describe his disdain at immigrants. His image of immigrants is not of an Aussie for that would contradict his notion of using the word Ďracist'.

Personally, i donít and wonít have a problem with Immigration because no region is entirely independent of another and we need one another directly or indirectly. This rubbish about losing ones racial identity is pure nonsense. Also, many donít understand that western countries NEED immigrants to keep the nation running effectively.

The only problem that could occur from immigration is the sort of issues arose in Holland. And I predict similar in the UK if a terrorist attack happens on our homeland, which I must say would happen in the future.

MISTERDUDE
11-07-2004, 03:36 PM
Many people like to hide behind the phrase 'immigrants' instead of "race'. Being British, English or down right Anglo. We have had a history of many immigrants. The Jews were immigrants but now can pass off as British because they blend perfectly well since they are white. However, the problem in the UK and many countries is not so much immigration but which type of immigrants we have.

White South Africans, Aussies. Kiwis or even East Europeans (Caucasian) wont be frowned up like Arabs, Blacks, Pakistanis et al. The poster used the term 'racist' to describe his disdain at immigrants. His image of immigrants is not of an Aussie for that would contradict his notion of using the word Ďracist'.

Personally, i donít and wonít have a problem with Immigration because no region is entirely independent of another and we need one another directly or indirectly. This rubbish about losing ones racial identity is pure nonsense. Also, many donít understand that western countries NEED immigrants to keep the nation running effectively.

The only problem that could occur from immigration is the sort of issues arose in Holland. And I predict similar in the UK if a terrorist attack happens on our homeland, which I must say would happen in the future.


You must not have read the thread before posting this. This talk of immigration is not based on race, but rather on lack of living space, economics, etc.

No one on here has argued based on anything you have brought up. The idea of integration was brought up so that everyone can get along and speak the same language, etc. After all, if you are going to livfe in the same place........

MISTERDUDE
11-07-2004, 03:44 PM
What percent of the world is "caucasian" like 10-20%?

What happens genetically when a caucasian and non-Caucasian have children? The child cannot be caucasian.

As a world statistic, caucasians have the lowest birth-rate AND decreasing demographics because of the "cultural mixing" you're talking about.

The problem, as I understand from you, isn't that there are immigrants. It's the inter-marriage that's going on. Is that correct?

Technically speaking, it's completely possible that ZERO caucasians exist if this continues.


You're kind of off. Caucasians are growing slower now due to lack of space in Europe, America, Australia, etc, but they aren't DECREASING in number, they are still growing. The reason for the low birth rate is that each and every child that comes into the world will likely livfe for 70+ years, so living space is running out. But to imply that the number of cacausins is decreasing is pretty far off. They are actually growing as much as everyone else, simply due to the fact that the life expectancy is so high. In other countries, more people are dying more frequently, so it offsets their high birthrates.

China is the only counry in the world with an actual negative population growth......because they have too many people.


You're also off because he is not talking about the same thing you are. Hes talking about preserving his culture.

teewoods
11-07-2004, 03:49 PM
You must not have read the thread before posting this. This talk of immigration is not based on race, but rather on lack of living space, economics, etc.

No one on here has argued based on anything you have brought up. The idea of integration was brought up so that everyone can get along and speak the same language, etc. After all, if you are going to livfe in the same place........


Immigration is based on race although many wont like to admit it. I'm speaking from a British perspective. Speaking to many right wingers they dont mind and East Europeans coming here because has they put it 'They blend well'.

Just my 3 pence...

Illuminati
11-07-2004, 03:50 PM
You're also off because he is not talking about the same thing you are. Hes talking about preserving his culture.

perhaps 'his' culture should have thought twice before conquering large parts of the world, raping their resources, ecouraging minorities to come in after ww2 to fill labor shortages, then truning around and deciding they wanted to preserve themselves from others?

SYRIANKID
11-07-2004, 08:15 PM
You're also off because he is not talking about the same thing you are. Hes talking about preserving his culture.

I'm pretty sure I got the gist of what he was talking about:


(a) they DO integrate into society and I guess this leads to parents from different races having children, and if this happens for a long time then everyone will look the same, and we will have traded lots of good cultures for just one and lose our identities

Tim
11-08-2004, 05:51 PM
No, you should be banned because:

(a) you are not being persecuted
(b) you are not Bosnian
I agree, and I should be banned for the same reason.