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Ivey_Itch
10-19-2004, 07:47 PM
I've been trying to learn about my body. For almost the past month i've been doing 40p/30c/30f. I'd like to switch it up for the next month..so i can see how my body reacts to different type things. (I'll know friday how I did overall with the 40/30/30 split). I'm considering the next month to be either 50p/30c/20f or either try carb cycling for a while. I have a few questions about carb cycling first. I notice there are different methods.. low days, med days, high days... and then there's the other one where it's like no carbs, low carbs and then refeed. I think.. i'm not completely sure on those. But my concern is, if I gave these a try, would I gain weight back if I went back to the 40/30/30 split or a 50/30/20 split? How long do you carb cycle as well? Is it like a 2 week thing..or an on-going process until you lose your desired bodyfat..or is it, as long as you can, as long as you can handle low carbs?
I'm not for the elimination of carbs for long periods of time, i definately feel carbs are essential, but I would like to throw my body into shock a bit... I've been eating basically the same foods for a few months, the macro's may of varied slightly, but basically it's been the same foods and amounts overall.
My questions are... What is considered Low, Med, High Carbs? I'm currently eating around 130g of carbs a day. What would be an example of a good cycle?? Also, do you just stick with the same amount of calories each day.. like 1500 calories everyday, but the macros depend on the carb day? The low carb days you'd increase good fats, and the high carb days you'd decrease fats, correct? What would be the macro's for these days? I found a few example diets, but they involved things like heavy creams and things of this nature. I'd like to do this a bit healthier. Also, do you suggest the high, med, low rotation, or the other method? Another issue, would you want your low or no carb days on your cardio or your weight lifting days? I know Ideally it would be your rest day, but if you only rest 1 or 2 times a week, which day would be best for the no carb/low carb day.. weights or cardio? Any help would be appreciated! I'm confused on this whole process, it seems like everything I read is different. Could someone Please help me understand this just a bit better? And my goal is to gain or preserve my muscle and drop body fat.. I don't care about my weight. I just want to lower my bodyfat percentage. The last time I checked I was around 19.74% body fat (around 1.5 weeks ago) I'd really love to get to about 14-15 percent! Thanks for any help!

JoannaC
10-19-2004, 08:29 PM
There is a REALLY great layout for this somewhere on these boards (a lot of help, I know ;) )...I will look for it and post the link :)

Ivey_Itch
10-19-2004, 09:06 PM
Thanks, I would really appreciate it!

GetnThere
10-20-2004, 03:23 PM
Find it yet?

Emma-Leigh
10-21-2004, 05:17 AM
There are lots of different forms of cycling.

One of my favourites is from Avant Labs. Here:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par30.htm

Faitless
10-21-2004, 05:23 AM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=336012 -> Good Post!

Ivey_Itch
10-21-2004, 05:30 AM
Thank a lot! I plan on trying this cycle out next week!

krankyprincess
10-25-2004, 12:45 PM
I know there are MANY different opinions on how many carbs one should take in to lose bodyfat in a healthy way. For those of you who don't function well on very low or no carbs or don't believe its healthy, what do you think of carb rotation? Is it just as healthy as eating a moderate amount of carbs every day? I'm a little weary of going a whole day with no carbs.

Ms. Lucy
10-25-2004, 02:07 PM
KP--I'm with you!

I'd love to try carb cycling, but I'm afraid it's like no/low carb diets and will make you gain weight once you stop eating that way. Also, I'm not sure if no carb days are healthy when working out.

If anyone has good information to dispell those fears, I'd love to give it a try!!

Ivey_Itch
10-25-2004, 02:38 PM
I don't know how "healthy" it actually is. But i've decided I'm going to give it a try. I'm going to follow Twin Peak's plan. you rotate NO/LOW/HIGH days. You get green veggies everyday. You also take many fish oil pills. He's got the whole plan lined out, and explains everything. I figured I'll give it a shot. I would of started this week, but i'm waiting for my body fat monitor to get here.. i want to have that tested first, so i'll know just what's going on body fat wise! Many people swear by these "diets" though.. I'm going to give it at least a month, unless I just get HORRIBLE results from it. :)

Keep a check on my journal next week...i'll document it all there.

ncgirl21
10-25-2004, 02:46 PM
Most people consider low carb 1 gram of carbs per pound of body weight, so you are already on a "low" carb diet according to many peoples view points.

Natrual Hormone Enhancement is a low carb diet (90-120 grams daily after induction) with a refeed for a few hours every third day prior to an intense workout. Your workouts also change depending on your diet.

Carb cycling is done typicall high-low-no. On your no carb days you only get the carbs from veggies. On low carb days you have carbs with three of your meals (pre and post workout included). On your high carb days your typicall eat as much as you want to make you feel satisfied but not stuffed but you add fruit with these either two or three meals. Your protein and fat intake remains constant.

If done correctly, shifting from a carb cycling diet to a 40/40/20 split should not cause you to gain weight. But, if your having results from your current diet I wouldn't change it. Carb cycling can be VERY confusing and has been known to cause a lot of people to binge. Some people loose strength on this type of diet as well.

MsFit
10-25-2004, 06:11 PM
I'd love to try carb cycling, but I'm afraid it's like no/low carb diets and will make you gain weight once you stop eating that way. Also, I'm not sure if no carb days are healthy when working out.



I use carb-cycling to drop body fat for contests. I've been doing it since 1997. It's definately not a fad. The key to any fat loss program is quality.

Once you get the weight off, keep at the calories and carbs that produce results. The only way you'll gain weight back is if you over eat.

komar
10-27-2004, 07:29 AM
I have only one question, do you count as carb intake all carbs or only NET carbs?

MsFit
10-27-2004, 08:02 AM
I only count the carbs that have an impact on the insulin. If you can control those responses, you can control your weight.

krankyprincess
10-27-2004, 11:51 AM
When you are carb cycling, what does your workout look like? Do you work out at all on the no carb days (either cardio or weights)? What is your split?

ncgirl21
10-27-2004, 12:21 PM
When you are carb cycling, what does your workout look like? Do you work out at all on the no carb days (either cardio or weights)? What is your split?


That depends a lot on the individual. A lot of people I know just do cardio on their no days because of energy levels.

Twin Peak
10-30-2004, 01:09 PM
When you are carb cycling, what does your workout look like? Do you work out at all on the no carb days (either cardio or weights)? What is your split?

Its not ideal, but it can be done, depending on your workout plan (such as which bodyparts, volume, etc.).

If you can avoid it, avoid it.

krys
01-23-2005, 09:17 AM
I use carb-cycling to drop body fat for contests. I've been doing it since 1997. It's definately not a fad. The key to any fat loss program is quality.

Once you get the weight off, keep at the calories and carbs that produce results. The only way you'll gain weight back is if you over eat.

How do you order this Ms Fit? How many of which days do you do and does it stay the same every week?

krys
01-23-2005, 09:18 AM
I also read in the 'burn the fat' ebook that you shouldn't go for longer than 3 days on low carbs, something about your body going into starvation mode. So he suggests 1 high carb day for every 3 low carb days.

What are the thoughts on this?

Also does your fat and protein consumption increase alot on low/no carb days or does it pretty much stay at the same level?

sorry for all the questions just interested to see how you ladies do it :)

k

someday
01-23-2005, 09:52 AM
I also read in the 'burn the fat' ebook that you shouldn't go for longer than 3 days on low carbs, something about your body going into starvation mode. So he suggests 1 high carb day for every 3 low carb days.

What are the thoughts on this?

Also does your fat and protein consumption increase alot on low/no carb days or does it pretty much stay at the same level?

sorry for all the questions just interested to see how you ladies do it :)

k

my hubby is doing this now and his schedule is h,l,l,l,m,l,l.and yes his fat intake does increase on low carb days. so far it's working well for him, but it's only been 3 solid weeks, so we'll see.

terracotta
01-23-2005, 10:09 AM
Here is a site with a forum dedicated to the cyclic ketogenic diet:

http://www.c-k-d.com/

Twin Peak
01-23-2005, 10:14 AM
Ideally you should not be counter-cycling fat -- the diet as I lay it out is a calorie cycling diet as well.

I also recommend one High Carb day every third or fourth day.

jeni5.0
01-23-2005, 10:38 AM
is carb cycling really important when trying to lose weight? or is it just another option?

krys
01-23-2005, 11:00 AM
Ideally you should not be counter-cycling fat -- the diet as I lay it out is a calorie cycling diet as well.

I also recommend one High Carb day every third or fourth day.

I read your article TP (at least I think it was yours?...) it was very good either way and answered alot of my questions.

So just to clarify; fat and protein stay the same throughout the week? Or does fat stay the same and protein increase on low/no carb days? I figure we have to make up for the lost calories somewhere otherwise it would drop way too low?

Also we don't count veggie carbs on no carb days so would we count them on the high/low carb days?

Thanks
K

Twin Peak
01-23-2005, 11:18 AM
Protein and fat stay the same. The calorie drop is purposeful and conducive to optimal fat-burning.

krys
01-23-2005, 11:22 AM
Protein and fat stay the same. The calorie drop is purposeful and conducive to optimal fat-burning.

Even if that takes us to or below the minimum '1200' cals?

Also we don't count veggie carbs on no carb days so would we count them on the high/low carb days?

Thanks TP I appreciate you taking the time to sort out my confusion! :)

Twin Peak
01-23-2005, 11:37 AM
Correct, you don't count. Don't worry about some magic minimum number, I go that low and I weight 220 lbs.

krys
01-23-2005, 11:49 AM
Correct, you don't count. Don't worry about some magic minimum number, I go that low and I weight 220 lbs.

Thanks again TP :)

tamp
01-23-2005, 04:15 PM
for a small carb sensative person, what would a high day be, gram wise? 100?
im 5 1 108 lbs, 100 for contest.

Emma-Leigh
01-23-2005, 05:37 PM
for a small carb sensative person, what would a high day be, gram wise? 100?
im 5 1 108 lbs, 100 for contest.

No carb days - as little as possible. No starchy carbs/sugar carbs. Green vegetables only. Protein is 1-1.5g per pound, which is 150-160g for you. Fats are good at ~10-15g for 3 meals, which is about 30-50g depending on your other food sources. So total cals for you would be somewhere between ~ 670 (if you wanted to be really brutal and do 30g fat, 100g protein) and 1000 cals (160g protein, 50g fat). Happy mediums would be at ~800 cals.

Low carb days ~ 1g per pound bodyweight. For you, somewhere between 100 and 108g. Once again, protein at 1-1.5g and fats at 30-50g. If you did more happy medium stuff then 130g protein, 100g carbs and 30g fat you would hit ~1190 cals.

High carb days - As the plan is written there is no restriction. You eat until you are physiologically and psychologically satisfied for your given carb meals. For some, there are underlying psychological (aka - disordered eating patterns/binge eating) and physiological (eg: leptin issues) reasons why this can cause more trouble than it is worth and they choose to count. Others 'cap' carbs at specific values eg: 2 x bodyweight. I would think that a calorie target of up near 1800 would be ok for high days, judging on your other calorie days...

edit - Of course, this is just guessing - each person is completely different and needs to figure out what works for them! ;)

someday
01-23-2005, 06:25 PM
Protein and fat stay the same. The calorie drop is purposeful and conducive to optimal fat-burning.

i'm confused....in your article you say that on higher carb days your protien and fat sources can change to a less lean type of protien and you consume more carbs.....so how can they possibly stay the same. your fat intake would change on high, low or no carb days as you call it.

Twin Peak
01-23-2005, 06:31 PM
i'm confused....in your article you say that on higher carb days your protien and fat sources can change to a less lean type of protien and you consume more carbs.....so how can they possibly stay the same. your fat intake would change on high, low or no carb days as you call it.

I think you are misreading the article. Quote the part that you are referring to, and I'd be happy to explain it.

tamp
01-24-2005, 03:22 AM
thanks. i need to do about 700-800 cals a day to get really cut fro a show. thought this might help me get a bit more food. i worked w/ dr joe last time and though i looked great, felt like total garbage and barely functioned after training cardio and work.
tam

someday
01-24-2005, 08:05 AM
I think you are misreading the article. Quote the part that you are referring to, and I'd be happy to explain it.

the whole section on protien consumption.....if there is no limit to how much protien you can eat just a minimum, fat has to be a variable since you probably would end up eating different amounts of protien every meal.

Twin Peak
01-24-2005, 11:19 AM
Not significantly, no. In practice you won't eat that much more on different days. There is only so much plain tuna or chicken breast you can eat, with no carbs to wash it down.