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View Full Version : tell me who to vote for and ill do it



Gibblets
10-02-2004, 10:25 PM
i cant go by these debates or what people tell me anymore. everyones either a republican and bush is right no matter what, or a democrat so bush is an idiot and kerrys what we need. half the time you dont know if what the media is telling you is true, i dont know what to believe.

so, if this is a stupid idea and everyone just wants me to read whats already here, fine, ill delete the thread, but if someone really wants to persuade me to vote one way, give me a few good reasons as to why i should vote for that candidate, and i promise i will vote for them. keep in mind im from mass so kerrys gonna win this state automatically, my votes not gonna matter that much, but id really like some unbiased non-bull**** information to help me decide who to vote for.

mariners216
10-02-2004, 10:40 PM
keep in mind im from mass so kerrys gonna win this state automatically, my votes not gonna matter that much,
nevermind

Gibblets
10-02-2004, 10:45 PM
alright i guess there was something wrong with that statement

mariners216
10-02-2004, 11:09 PM
alright i guess there was something wrong with that statement
No it's just that this thread isn't going to convince you one way or the other. Anything I say will be called partisan or half-truths or outright lies or wrong by people who think you should vote for Bush.:(

CerealKiller
10-02-2004, 11:47 PM
Vote for Kerry.

I'm not nuts about Kerry myself...but compared with George Bush...the man is Washington, Lincoln, and TR all rolled into one.

Anyone who finds Bush a more attractive candidate than Kerry...no matter what their opinion of Kerry...has not done anywhere near enough thinking.

This administration has caused problems that will effect this country and the world for decades to come...and the next several presidents will, in my opinion, be preoccupied with trying to clean up the mess.

I also suspect that the mistakes made by this incompetent administration will probably have a toll on America's standing in the world that will be viewed by future historians as the beginning of America's downslide.

A vote for Bush is a vote for chaos in the world.

blaker00
10-02-2004, 11:55 PM
People in masses are sheep. Don't be one of them! Do some research and make up your own opinion.

Gibblets
10-03-2004, 07:42 AM
i do research, i wish it was reliable, but like i said you just dont know whose information to trust anymore and what is true and what isn't. it seems like there are a lot of well informed people on this particular forum, i may be wrong but this is pretty much the only forum without trolls and pointless threads, and there seems to be some pretty solid debate. so im an 18 year old kid, an independent, never voted before and never really followed an election, and i just want some help in making my decision because its tough to decipher between propaganda bull**** and actual useful information.

philhill4
10-03-2004, 12:04 PM
Do you believe in protecting your country at all costs?
Do you believe that the tax money you pay is your money first and not the governments?
Do you believe in a smaller more efficient government?
Do you believe in local and state government retaining their own rights?
Do you believe that local and state government should dictate education for their children?
Do you believe in having more control over YOUR social security and healthcare money and accounts?
Do you believe in more people being home owners?
Do you believe in integrity and respect?
Do you believe in protecting our friends and allies?
Do you believe in spreading liberty and freedom to those who don't have it?
Do you believe in american has the right to defend itself without the permission of other nations?
Do you believe in an enviromental policy that is based on current science and not designed to bankrupt companies for the sake of political correctness?
Do you believe in having a president who has core values and sticks to them?
Do you believe in having a president who hires the best and most intelligent people possible to work for him?
Do you believe in funding our troops with everything they need?
Do you believe your president should be a man who does stays the course and sees the long term potential in providing liberty and freedom to the middle east?
Do you believe your president should hunt down all terrorists and those that support them, not just go after one at a time?
Do you believe your president should be a man who DID NOT give aid and comfort to the enemy during war time like Kerry did?

If you answered yes to most or all of these then President George W. Bush is the man you should vote for.

mariners216
10-03-2004, 07:45 PM
Do you believe in protecting your country at all costs?
Both Kerry and Bush have promised to do this.

Do you believe that the tax money you pay is your money first and not the governments?
Kerry is offering tax cuts for the middle class. Bush offers them for the top 1%

Do you believe in a smaller more efficient government?
Bush is not a fiscal conservative, as seen by the massive debt he has run up with all of his spending.

Do you believe in local and state government retaining their own rights? Constitutional ban on gay marriage (that has no chance of passing) would be going against what certain states want to do in regards to this issue.

Do you believe that local and state government should dictate education for their children?
Bush keeps touting No Child Left Behind, which ends up making teachers teach to standardized tests, rather than really teaching the kids.

Do you believe in more people being home owners?
What does this have to do with Bush? :confused:

Do you believe in integrity and respect?
Yes, we get it. Bush ****s his wife. In what other ways does Bush have integrity? He should've been charged with insider trading when he worked for Harken Energy. And what do you mean by "do you believe inrespect?"

Do you believe in protecting our friends and allies?
Yes! Protect them from the weapons of mass destru---oh wait. And aside from Britain and Australia, what other real allies do we have left?

Do you believe in spreading liberty and freedom to those who don't have it?
aka "Do you believe in policing the world?"

Do you believe in american has the right to defend itself without the permission of other nations?
Kerry said he would not cede to others the right to take preemptive action "in any way necessary to protect the United States of America."

Do you believe in an enviromental policy that is based on current science and not designed to bankrupt companies for the sake of political correctness?
LOL. Yes, Bush for the environment!!

Do you believe in having a president who has core values and sticks to them?[/quote
In the final debate against Al Gore in October of 2000 Bush said this in regards to deploying U.S. troops around the world: "Your question was deployment. It must be in the national interests. It must be in our vital interest whether we every send troops. The mission must be clear. Soldiers must understand why are we going. The force must be strong enough so that the mission can be accomplished. And the exit strategy needs to be well-defined." You tell me if he sticks to values.
[quote]Do you believe in having a president who hires the best and most intelligent people possible to work for him?
Yes, Condi "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and use an [it] as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile" Rice and Don "Sure we can secure Iraq with only 100,000 troops" Rumsfeld have been so successful.

Do you believe in funding our troops with everything they need?
If you remember correctly, Bush threatened to veto the $87 billion dollar appropriation if any of his tax cuts for the rich were used to pay for it.

Do you believe your president should be a man who does stays the course and sees the long term potential in providing liberty and freedom to the middle east?
These people have been fighting for thousands of years. You really think we can bring liberty to them---with war?

Do you believe your president should hunt down all terrorists and those that support them, not just go after one at a time?
How does Bush plan to hunt down all the terrorists? Surely not by starting an unrelated war and diverting resources from Afghanistan. :rolleyes:

Do you believe your president should be a man who DID NOT give aid and comfort to the enemy during war time like Kerry did?
You know Bush supporters are desperate when they resort to Kerry's words "comforting the enemy." Yes, anyone who speaks out against the war is unpatriotic!! :rolleyes:

garfieldinitaly
10-03-2004, 08:37 PM
LOL. Yes, Bush for the environment!!

LOL...I got a good laugh out of that one too. I got to hand it to philhill though, he put about as good of a spin on Bush's environmental policies that you can.

Diesel66
10-03-2004, 10:24 PM
Don't care what your political views are but Bush lowered everyones tax bill.

The 10% tax rate was extended. And the initial exemption was increased which makes everyone pay less.

Also married couples, those with children under 17, and those receiving dividends saw and will see lower taxes.

philhill4
10-04-2004, 12:01 PM
[QUOTE=mariners216]Both Kerry and Bush have promised to do this.
// Kerry has the worst Senate record when it comes to defending this country. He can not be trusted.

Kerry is offering tax cuts for the middle class. Bush offers them for the top 1%
// NO Bush offers tax cuts to all. Kerry says he will keep the middle class tax cuts only. No democrat since Kennedy has ever provided tax relief so again you can't trust Kerry and in fact he has a senate record where he always votes for tax increases and against tax cuts.

Bush is not a fiscal conservative, as seen by the massive debt he has run up with all of his spending.
// Most of the increase in the debt and the deficit is because of dealing with the new threats since 9/11. Personally I don't care what the cost as long as we defeat terrorism and spread libery.

Constitutional ban on gay marriage (that has no chance of passing) would be going against what certain states want to do in regards to this issue.
// Most of the country supports a gay marriage ban.

Bush keeps touting No Child Left Behind, which ends up making teachers teach to standardized tests, rather than really teaching the kids.
// Ok don't even talk about this one. I have 3 family members who are teachers and two of them are democrats and they have said countless times the Bush's education policies are the one thing they do agree with. They all mention how aweful the education system became under Clinton. Even Clinton supporters admit that his education policies didn't work.


And aside from Britain and Australia, what other real allies do we have left?
// Italy, Poland, Japan, South Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India etc.

aka "Do you believe in policing the world?"
// Actually yes I do. Someone has to do it and the UN has been a 60 year failure.

Kerry said he would not cede to others the right to take preemptive action "in any way necessary to protect the United States of America."
// Another one of his flip flops considering his feeling we need UN approval for everything and we need to "pass the global test" before going to war.

Do you believe in having a president who has core values and sticks to them?

In the final debate against Al Gore in October of 2000 Bush said this in regards to deploying U.S. troops around the world: "Your question was deployment. It must be in the national interests. It must be in our vital interest whether we every send troops. The mission must be clear. Soldiers must understand why are we going. The force must be strong enough so that the mission can be accomplished. And the exit strategy needs to be well-defined." You tell me if he sticks to values.
// Yes you just proved the point. The only issue anyone can trully question is the exit strategy but anyone who has ever been in any military conflict large or small will tell you that you can never predict what will happen ahead of time.

Yes, Condi "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and use an [it] as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile" Rice and Don "Sure we can secure Iraq with only 100,000 troops" Rumsfeld have been so successful.
// Sure like you were sitting around imagining people hitting buildings with planes. As for how many troops to use in Iraq they did initially secure Iraq with just 100,000 troops. However I will agree that a larger deployment may have been a better choice.

If you remember correctly, Bush threatened to veto the $87 billion dollar appropriation if any of his tax cuts for the rich were used to pay for it.
// Well that is a load of bullsh*t.

These people have been fighting for thousands of years. You really think we can bring liberty to them---with war?
// Yes in fact I do. Most people want liberty. People don't wake up and say "sure please oppress me". Oh and by the way how exactly do you get them to stop fighting. At some point people have to let go of old issues. If that means someone stepping in then so be it. Besides I would have loved to stay out of it but 9/11 happened and from that day on the gloves are off and everyone must do what we want.

How does Bush plan to hunt down all the terrorists? Surely not by starting an unrelated war and diverting resources from Afghanistan. :rolleyes:
// You defeat terrorism by not only hunting down terrorists but removing the kind of governments that in any way, shape or form support terrorists.

You know Bush supporters are desperate when they resort to Kerry's words "comforting the enemy." Yes, anyone who speaks out against the war is unpatriotic!! :rolleyes
// There is a difference between opposing the war with peaceful protests and having meetings with the enemy during war time without the express consent of your own government.

JMF
10-04-2004, 12:10 PM
Don't care what your political views are but Bush lowered everyones tax bill.

The 10% tax rate was extended. And the initial exemption was increased which makes everyone pay less.

Also married couples, those with children under 17, and those receiving dividends saw and will see lower taxes.

that is true, and our deficit is the largest in the history of our country! That $300 check really helped me.. woo hoo..

meanwhile ask how much Cheney got from that tax cut, ask how much Bush, and yes.. even kerry got from that tax cut..

The rich keep getting richer.

philhill4
10-04-2004, 12:14 PM
that is true, and our deficit is the largest in the history of our country! That $300 check really helped me.. woo hoo..

meanwhile ask how much Cheney got from that tax cut, ask how much Bush, and yes.. even kerry got from that tax cut..

The rich keep getting richer.

Everyone who pays federal taxes recieved the same tax cut percentage. It was fair. Stop bitching about the rich and go do something about it like work at becoming rich yourself. Everyone has the ability in this country to do it.

JMF
10-04-2004, 12:25 PM
Everyone who pays federal taxes recieved the same tax cut percentage. It was fair. Stop bitching about the rich and go do something about it like work at becoming rich yourself. Everyone has the ability in this country to do it.

He gave the richest people in the country a 3% tax cut, He gave tax cuts during a war, Our deficit is the worst it has ever been. Bush is not fiscally conservative at all... real conservatives see that. Blind party loyalists do not.

That tax cat had nothing to do with anything except the rich keeping more of their money. I am not bitching about the rich, I am bitching about Bush and his irresponsable policies.
Most people who make a lot of money have worked hard to get there, and are going to want to keep it all. I understand that, but it is not the best way for our country.

It was incredibly irresponsable to cut tax to the richest americans in the time of war.

philhill4
10-04-2004, 12:29 PM
He gave the richest people in the country a 3% tax cut, He gave tax cuts during a war, Our deficit is the worst it has ever been. Bush is not fiscally conservative at all... real conservatives see that. Blind party loyalists do not.

That tax cat had nothing to do with anything except the rich keeping more of their money. I am not bitching about the rich, I am bitching about Bush and his irresponsable policies.
Most people who make a lot of money have worked hard to get there, and are going to want to keep it all. I understand that, but it is not the best way for our country.

It was incredibly irresponsable to cut tax to the richest americans in the time of war.


The tax cut was about putting our money back in our hands. Remember it is our money not the governments. The tax cuts were about stimulus which it did provide just that stimulus as evident by how well the economy is doing especially considering all we have been through.

The best way to run our country is to leave most of our money in our hands.

JMF
10-04-2004, 12:56 PM
The tax cut was about putting our money back in our hands. Remember it is our money not the governments. The tax cuts were about stimulus which it did provide just that stimulus as evident by how well the economy is doing especially considering all we have been through.

The best way to run our country is to leave most of our money in our hands.

Look at our deficit, who is going to pay for that? The tax cuts were provided for a stimulous, but over that the rich people really took a reward that our children will owe.
A fiscal conservaitive would not have approved that cut in a time of war.

I am all for lowering taxes and even for the rich, but that money has to be made up somewhere.
If X = the amount of money the government takes from our taxes.. you need to find the best way to that number.

BiggJohn
10-04-2004, 05:42 PM
i cant go by these debates or what people tell me anymore. everyones either a republican and bush is right no matter what, or a democrat so bush is an idiot and kerrys what we need. half the time you dont know if what the media is telling you is true, i dont know what to believe.

so, if this is a stupid idea and everyone just wants me to read whats already here, fine, ill delete the thread, but if someone really wants to persuade me to vote one way, give me a few good reasons as to why i should vote for that candidate, and i promise i will vote for them. keep in mind im from mass so kerrys gonna win this state automatically, my votes not gonna matter that much, but id really like some unbiased non-bull**** information to help me decide who to vote for.

If you make more than $85K (single) per year or $125K (married filling jointly) per year vote for Bush, if not vote for Kerry.

BiggJohn
10-04-2004, 05:44 PM
If you invest in the stock market vote for Kerry. Statically, the market has always done better under a democratic president.

enigma_linear
10-04-2004, 06:32 PM
Democrats are not for the working man. Both of my parents are in the Union and both are voting for Bush. We're a middle class family, and in the last 4 years we've been able to do things financially, that we couldn't do the last 8 years Clinton was in office. We've been able to remodel our house, buy new cars, etc. So Bush's tax cuts are not just for the rich. And if Kerry is elected, our taxes will skyrocket once again.

mariners216
10-04-2004, 06:54 PM
Democrats are not for the working man. Both of my parents are in the Union and both are voting for Bush. We're a middle class family, and in the last 4 years we've been able to do things financially, that we couldn't do the last 8 years Clinton was in office. We've been able to remodel our house, buy new cars, etc. So Bush's tax cuts are not just for the rich. And if Kerry is elected, our taxes will skyrocket once again.
If you are middle class, no, your taxes will not skyrocket.