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Complete Muscle
05-23-2002, 11:12 AM
I would like to first state for the record that I am not some kind of authority on usnic acid! I am a body building/fitness enthusiast and entrepreneur. I have recently become certified as a Personal Trainer and Sports Nutritionist, but that’s a far cry from being a chemist or biologist. This information is based on the best of my knowledge and research but is not guaranteed to be accurate. You are ultimately responsible for your own health and fitness!

1. What is usnic acid? What does it do in the body?

Usnic acid is a naturally occurring metabolite found in certain lichen species and in kombucha tea. It has been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation in much the same way DNP does. This process results in an inefficient use of energy by the body. In response the body steps up ATP production, increases it’s metabolism, and burns a tremendous amount of extra calories.

2. What is the approximate half-life of usnic acid?

Estimations are approximately 6-10 hours. Once inside your bloodstream, usnic acid is highly protein-bound at a level of approximately 99.2%, giving usnic acid good bioavailability and a long half life.

3. Are there any side effects or contraindications with usnic acid?

There are 61 published abstracts on usnic acid. To my knowledge it is not reported to have any irreversible or untoward side effects. That said, I would exercise caution when trying any new supplement. Anyone with any medical condition should see a physician before using this product, including but not limited to: pregnant or lactating, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart condition, thyroid problems, liver disease. Do not take with any prescription medication or OTC product. If any symptoms occur, discontinue use immediately and seek the advice of a medical professional.

4. How much do I take? What’s the recommended dosage?

The recommended dose is from 250mg to 1000mg a day depending on body weight. Begin with 250mg a day for the first 3 days to assess tolerance. Then gradually move up from there

5. How long is too long for a Usnic Acid “cycle”? How long of a recovery time is recommended between cycles?

Usnic Acid is the only herbal ingredient shown to increase chemical thermogenesis on a prolonged basis. Theoretically there is no on-off cycling needed. However I recommend caution in this area - I personally am using a 2 week on/ 2 week off approach.

6. Are there any additional supplements/nutrients recommended to take during/after cycle?

You do not need additional supplementation to enhance the effects of usnic acid. A healthy balanced nutritional foundation is highly recommended along with a good multi-vitamin/multi-mineral supplement. It may be beneficial to take increased anti-oxidants such as Alpha Lipoic Acid.

7. Is it necessary or beneficial to do cardio routines during a usnic acid cycle?

I strongly recommend that you give your body a chance to respond to the usnic acid before deciding how much if at all you wish to add aerobic activity into your training routine.

8. What kind of diet should I eat while taking usnic acid? How many calories? Protein/ carbohydrate/ fat ratios?

Again a healthy balanced nutritional foundation is recommended. With usnic acid supplementation weight loss occurs even when energy (food) intake remains the same because extra calories are chemically released as heat. I strongly recommend that you give your body a chance to respond to the usnic acid before changing your diet. Studies show that uncouplers utilize fat as the dominant source of calories (95% from fat, 3% from carbohydrates and 2% from protein).

This FAQ brought to you by www.usnicacid.com

Smokinghawk
05-23-2002, 01:08 PM
so usnic acid has over 99% bioavailability? That ought to put a stop to the people lemanting, "yeah, but where can I get sodium usniate instead?"

Good stuff. I would add a LOT stronger envouragement to use antioxidants, though, esp. vitamins E and C, green tea, berries/fruit antioxidants, etc.

princessbigman
05-23-2002, 01:10 PM
does it cause water retention

Complete Muscle
05-23-2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Smokinghawk
so usnic acid has over 99% bioavailability?...... Not exactly: The 99.2% number refers to being protein bound once in the bloodstream. I have read it is around 70% bioavailable.

OVRTrainer
05-23-2002, 02:52 PM
BUMP...Great post!

All questions and advice about UA should be added to this thread!

I think this is deserving of "STICKY" notoriety...Being that the supplement (scam) company B.S. is still a sticky, it would be a travesty to allow a valuable post such as this get lost in the shuffle.

Dann
05-23-2002, 03:11 PM
will usnic Acid make you tired and lethargic all day long juts like DNP, and will it rasie your body temp so much to make you sweat all day liek DNP??


Dann

Rlang
05-23-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Dann
will usnic Acid make you tired and lethargic all day long juts like DNP, and will it rasie your body temp so much to make you sweat all day liek DNP??


Dann

"It has been shown to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation in much the same way DNP does."

Man I get sick of seeing UA compared with DNP, the two are NOTHING alike. To all those thinking you can take UA and get the effects of DNP without having to take DNP, NO YOU CAN NOT. I took UA at between 1-2 g /day, and got NOTHING (Did 2 weeks). I'm pretty immune to alot of stuff it seems though, but I've also talked with some others who ran high dosages and they agreed with me (not on this board where several are trying to sell it). I've written it off as useless, and I've been in the game for quite a while, and seen a lot come and go. I would feel comfortable saying 1 vivarin 3 times a day is more effective.

Right now I'm on a 14 day cycle of DNP (don't PM me asking where I get it, I won't tell you), and there is NO comparison. Not even a little bit. So in answer, no UA will NOT make you tired all day like DNP, nor will you lose 1 lb of fat per day, or even 1/2, or a 1/4. Face it, there is $$$bookoo bucks$$$$ spent on developing fat burners every year. UA is NOT some revolutionary compound that has been over looked for so long, it's just not effective. With what's out right now it goes 1)DNP 2)Clen-T3 (maybe Bromo here too) 3) E/C, end of story. Please someone selling this stuff provide a peer-reviewed study on UAs effect on weight loss, and then explain why if it is so effective it's only being sold by a few "individuals" who are not even in the business. Whatever was in LIPO, was not just having UA in it. And LIPO is GONE, let go. I suspect there was more to LIPO than the label stated.

added: And yes, I've taken LIPO, and while it also is not comparable to DNP, I do think it was an effective accelerator of fat loss. UA I would not make that statement about.

AnthonyGoldsGym
05-23-2002, 05:38 PM
I plan on trying UA but don't want to give up ECA because it effectively lifts my mood. Can UA and ECA be safely stacked together? :D

Smokinghawk
05-23-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by AnthonyGoldsGym
I plan on trying UA but don't want to give up ECA because it effectively lifts my mood. Can UA and ECA be safely stacked together? :D

Absolutely!

And true, UA is not like DNP. It's a milder effect. While DNP causes a 60% increase in metabolism, my rate of fat loss on UA at a similar diet suggests a 10-15% increase--which is still DAMNED good, considering ECA is about a 5% increase.

AnthonyGoldsGym
05-23-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Smokinghawk


Absolutely!

And true, UA is not like DNP. It's a milder effect. While DNP causes a 60% increase in metabolism, my rate of fat loss on UA at a similar diet suggests a 10-15% increase--which is still DAMNED good, considering ECA is about a 5% increase.

Thanks bro...WYD would've lost a sale. :D

Rlang
05-23-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Smokinghawk


While DNP causes a 60% increase in metabolism, my rate of fat loss on UA at a similar diet suggests a 10-15% increase--which is still DAMNED good, considering ECA is about a 5% increase.

Where does this number come from? Any peer reviewed research? I've never come acrosss anything verifying this.

Smokinghawk
05-23-2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Rlang


Where does this number come from? Any peer reviewed research? I've never come acrosss anything verifying this.

Absolutely! (I try to be careful and only assert things that I can verify, or else I admit they're just my opinions).

The DNP study, done on rats rather thaq humans (obviously!), can be read at http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm including its conclusion, "DNP (30 mg/kg po) caused sustained increases (< 64%, n=8) in basal metabolic rate in rats > 4.5 hours. These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate in-vitro and in-vivo and provides a guide to the anticipated pharmacological effects of the new generation of specific uncoupling agents."

So they measured it at 64% increase.

The usnic acid figures have no verification, which I specified when I first wrot it.

Rlang
05-23-2002, 11:35 PM
No no no. I never questioned the DNP number, if fact there is published research that show an increase even 3 times higher than that. My question was your 15% for UA because I happen to know that such information is not out there. Do you think when someone takes E/C they can "tell" their metabolism has increased by 5%? Absolutely not. So taking UA, you know your metabolism so well that you're able to truthfully deduce that ther is approxamately a 15% increase in your metabolism? No, that number came right out of your butt. 3 times more effective than E/C, that is one of the most misleading things I've read since I saw a Myostatin Blocker Ad. How many e/c stacks are out there and actually aid in fat loss? Thousands. UA? Nothing. It's not some novel compund recently discovered. It dissappeared way back when becasue it's a waste, yet E/C is, and always will be around and useful. SO in conclusion, you did not pass off 15% as an opinion, it came out of thin air, and is backed by absolutely nothing.

Bobo
05-23-2002, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Rlang
No no no. I never questioned the DNP number, if fact there is published research that show an increase even 3 times higher than that. My question was your 15% for UA because I happen to know that such information is not out there. Do you think when someone takes E/C they can "tell" their metabolism has increased by 5%? Absolutely not. So taking UA, you know your metabolism so well that you're able to truthfully deduce that ther is approxamately a 15% increase in your metabolism? No, that number came right out of your butt. 3 times more effective than E/C, that is one of the most misleading things I've read since I saw a Myostatin Blocker Ad. How many e/c stacks are out there and actually aid in fat loss? Thousands. UA? Nothing. It's not some novel compund recently discovered. It dissappeared way back when becasue it's a waste, yet E/C is, and always will be around and useful. SO in conclusion, you did not pass off 15% as an opinion, it came out of thin air, and is backed by absolutely nothing.

The comparisons of DNP to UA are by mechanism and side effets only. In no way are they realted in terms of results. Its like saying PH's (not 1-test) are comparable to AAS....And I think we know the answre to that. Usnic acid has been reported by users to have side effects (mainly higher temp, increased sweating and lethargy) that resemble DNP...Nobdy in their right mind would say it has the same results. Comparisons have nothing to do with results here, only side effects....And thats not even in all cases...

Layne_Norton
05-24-2002, 08:01 AM
does anyone know if it is safe to just swallow UA powder or does it have to be pilled?

i just got some powder but i havent got my capper yet and im anxious to try it out.

thx

Smokinghawk
05-24-2002, 08:08 AM
Of COURSE I pulled the number "right out of my butt." You didn't read where I SAID so the first time? Man, I thought you were questioning the DNP numbers, but instead you were asking for a source on something I *told* you I was only guessing at, and then proclaiming, "You were obviously only guessing at it!" Gee, Sherlock--I said it was a personal experience guess and then you PROVED I was only guessing--what was your first clue, man? You proved I really meant what I said! Amazing!

I told you from the start I am only estimating based on my experiences--no, nobody has done a peer-reviewed study on "Smokinghawks personal guesstimations with UA."

So how do I come up with a number at all? AS I SAID (but you have to read during this clever sleuthing of yours), it's based on measuring the outcomes in fat loss contrasted between ECA and UA on an otherwise similar diet program.

To sum: I lost about 3 times the fat per time period using ECA+UA than ECA alone.



No run along and demand peer-reviewed sources to prove it when someone says "I like blondes more."

RockECU
05-24-2002, 09:14 AM
for me i'd say it was about 4 to 1.. eca doesn't do crap for me.. as far as eca/ecy/ncy's go.. they don't affect metabolism/fat burning NEARLY as much as an uncoupler does..

WHOSYOURDADDY02
05-24-2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Layne_Norton
does anyone know if it is safe to just swallow UA powder or does it have to be pilled?

i just got some powder but i havent got my capper yet and im anxious to try it out.

thx

Yes - there shouldn't be a problem doing this with your powder. Most of it not all pills that you receive can be opened up and taken raw. Many people who have problems taking pills have to do this. Sometimes people try to mix it up with yogurt and other foods. Just make sure your measuring out about the weight that you need so you don't take too much -- especially now while you are assessing your tolerance. By the way, how did go with the UA? Was there any problems receiving it? Did it come quickly? Thanks

Layne_Norton
05-24-2002, 12:58 PM
whosyourdaddy

Thanks again for the UA. It came very quick, quick than i thought. im going to make some pill but i just tried some powder just to try and it went down ok.


ill start a 2 week cycle in a few weeks, ill keep you posted on results

thx again

Gonzo
05-24-2002, 04:11 PM
Whosyourdaddy - Syntrax is possibly selling their left over sodium usniate. If someone were to buy it in bulk, I would definitely buy some off them. It works better than usnic acid.

RockECU
05-24-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Gonzo
Whosyourdaddy - Syntrax is possibly selling their left over sodium usniate. If someone were to buy it in bulk, I would definitely buy some off them. It works better than usnic acid.

where have you rea/heard it works better than usnic acid.. have you tried them both??

Rlang
05-24-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Smokinghawk
you were asking for a source on something I *told* you I was only guessing at, and then proclaiming, "You were obviously only guessing at it!" Gee, Sherlock--I said it was a personal experience guess and then you PROVED I was only guessing--what was your first clue, man? You proved I really meant what I said! Amazing!...

No run along and demand peer-reviewed sources to prove it when someone says "I like blondes more."

Hahaha...and no, your post did not clearly state that you were guessing, yes I read it. You said UA "suggests" a 10-15% increase, I said this number is bull****, which it is. But whatever, I don't care if you do UA or not. If the brainiacs on this board want to blindly take a bunch of stuff because a few people claim it's great, yet is backed by zero research, that's fine....And I"M amazing! I mean it makes perfect sense, get all the sides if DNP, but WITHOUT THE RESULTS!! I can't believe UA isn't more popular than it is. I actually did a great deal of research last night. (For background, I have a degree in Chemistry). There is VERY strong research that suggests that DNP is safer than UA, for a number of reasons. I'll let you find it yourself, if you can even understand it. To anyone who hasn't tried it, after last night I would have never suggested this, just do TONS of research on DNP and use it instead, you'll be glad, and much better off.

Bobo
05-24-2002, 09:23 PM
I would rather follow some of the people's advice here that are much more qualified than someone with just a chemistry degree and states is doesn't work just because he didn't have any results. We all know DNP is a much better fat burner. I don't think anyone disputed that. And the side effects of DNP can be much more extrme and unhealthy than UA. THe effects are similar in nature, but not even close to the intesity. But for you to discount people that are using deduction from personal experience, and follow nothing but case study that can contradict each other depending on the source, is extremely close minded. If we were to all follow multi-million dollar companies doing extensive research in the area of supplements, we would be using Muscletech products. The results coming from some reputable people on several boards state that the results of UA can be impressive. Simple as that.


And please post those sources stating DNP can be safer than UA since you've done the search already. I would like to read them.

princessbigman
05-24-2002, 09:32 PM
dont listen to that guy.. first of all what are his sources

second he says dont listen to peers yet is he a scientist or some **** hes just another peer i shouldnt listen to

look up Usnic Acid in any searchengine i found tons of things saying its useful

third his brains probably fried from DNP

dont listen to me either try it for yourself its probably useful for an edge on fat loss

Bobo
05-24-2002, 09:37 PM
I've tried them all.... Shhh.....:)

Rlang
05-25-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Bobo
I would rather follow some of the people's advice here that are much more qualified than someone with just a chemistry degree and states is doesn't work just because he didn't have any results. We all know DNP is a much better fat burner. I don't think anyone disputed that. And the side effects of DNP can be much more extrme and unhealthy than UA. THe effects are similar in nature, but not even close to the intesity. But for you to discount people that are using deduction from personal experience, and follow nothing but case study that can contradict each other depending on the source, is extremely close minded. If we were to all follow multi-million dollar companies doing extensive research in the area of supplements, we would be using Muscletech products. The results coming from some reputable people on several boards state that the results of UA can be impressive. Simple as that.


And please post those sources stating DNP can be safer than UA since you've done the search already. I would like to read them.

hahaha, lol. You guys crack me up. First, no, the sides from DNP are not worse than Usnic Acid, in fact as far as damaging properties UA is worse, FAR worse. And No, I'm not doing all of your homework for you, I found it, so can you, if you don't believe me, well....I couldn't give a ****. Then there is the fact that there is a great deal of info and KNOWLEDGEABLE feedback from DNP users who actually know what they are talking about, while there is nothing about UA. I've seen "Mr. X" quote the research I've come by on a couple boards, maybe he'll feel like just serving it right to you.

Your post shows your ignorance about research. You think MuscleTech really researches their ****? In published peer-reviewed journals? Haha, no they don't. Almost no supplement companies do, it's VERY expensive, and why go ahead and do it when you can just lie about it or distort irrelevant data to make it look like you did. But there is research out there, you just have to search for it, and apply it to your situation. Obviously a "reputable source on this board" is determined by number of posts (aka just sitting on your ass at your computer all day) and nothing else, because anyone pushing UA is just purely ignorant, and has an extremely limited understanding of chemistry and physiology (as well as overlooking very RELEVENT research). Like I said, whatever. I have NO reason to like or dislike UA, none at all. But I'll just advise anyone considering it to stay away, 1) because it is ineffective, and 2) it is a dangerous compound. I'm really surprised my apparently "knowledgeable peers" haven't come by it, or if they did, don't even have the intellect to interpret it. Flame away, I don't care, I laugh at anyone who jumps on something just because of the ill-advise of someone on this board, who is unqualified as anyone to do so. (with the exception of Par, who is at least able to demonstrate his knowledge and qualification, unlike those who are pushing UA). Have fun kids.

Rlang
05-25-2002, 03:38 PM
Maybe one of my obviously more qualified "peers" could explain to eveyone mitotic spindle formation- ihibition, and how it relates to Usnic Acid. Anyone? This should be good!

RockECU
05-25-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Rlang


hahaha, lol. You guys crack me up. First, no, the sides from DNP are not worse than Usnic Acid,

#1- who said the sides from UA are worse than DNP?

in fact as far as damaging properties UA is worse, FAR worse.
And No, I'm not doing all of your homework for you, I found it, so can you, if you don't believe me, well....I couldn't give a ****.

#2- then why do you CONTINUE to reply to UA topics/threads if you don't give a ****? Back all this talk of yours up with studies/references/whatever you may have. Not everyone has access to journals of all kinds.


Then there is the fact that there is a great deal of info and KNOWLEDGEABLE feedback from DNP users who actually know what they are talking about, while there is nothing about UA. I've seen "Mr. X" quote the research I've come by on a couple boards, maybe he'll feel like just serving it right to you.

because anyone pushing UA is just purely ignorant, and has an extremely limited understanding of chemistry and physiology (as well as overlooking very RELEVENT research).

#3-do you think peeing different colors and your cum changing colors to a neon green color is considered NORMAL oh Mr. Chemistry and Physiology man.. ?? I'm not a nephrologist, but common knowledge about anatomy/physiology tells you that if you're pissing green, there's something wrong.. Not to mention that the eccrine glands are now producing a sweat that will STAIN things very easily.. I believe you're being the ignorant one by even mentioning the 2 words of DNP and safe in the same sentence.. Not to mention you even tried usnic yourself... Thats a little pot calling the kettle black here if you ask me..

Like I said, whatever. I have NO reason to like or dislike UA, none at all.

#4- Then why are you telling anybody who's interested in trying/pushing UA that they're ignorant? And why did you try it yourself?

But I'll just advise anyone considering it to stay away, 1) because it is ineffective,

#5- really?? so I'm assuming that you and every other human are one and the same huh?

and 2) it is a dangerous compound.

#6- please prove something with references..

I'm really surprised my apparently "knowledgeable peers" haven't come by it, or if they did, don't even have the intellect to interpret it.

#7- I could give 2 ****s how "knowledgeable" you think I or anybody else on this board is.. You're the one who is contradicting most everything that you're saying here so..

Flame away, I don't care, I laugh at anyone who jumps on something just because of the ill-advise of someone on this board, who is unqualified as anyone to do so.

#8- actually, the interest in usnic acid CAME ABOUT A LONG TIME AGO, and stemmed from Lipokinetix (which MANY people say is very effective). Once Lipok was pulled from the shelves, people were looking for a sodium usniate / usnic acid product to try alone or with their ECA stacks, etc. To say that people jumped on usnic acid just because of somebody on this board is ludicrous.

RockECU
05-25-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Rlang
Maybe one of my obviously more qualified "peers" could explain to eveyone mitotic spindle formation- ihibition, and how it relates to Usnic Acid. Anyone? This should be good!



Mitotic Spindle Formation takes place during Prophase (2nd phase of Mitosis). In the long run, if you inhibit this process, you inhibit the growth/production/replication of a new cell.

How this relates to Usnic Acid -

Well Mr. Chemistry -
Usnic acid has been used for many years in the East, even by some as a cancer preventative. Why a cancer preventative??

By disrupting mitosis (replication/growth/production) of cells, you may be able to stop the the cancerous growth from replicating itself, thus growing larger or spreading.

Well, one of these compounds that might dirrupt the process of mitosis in hopes of keeping cancerous growths at bay is USNIC ACID.

Bobo
05-25-2002, 05:04 PM
Well done Rock. I've never heard someone contradict themsevles so much and state he had "knowledgable peers" then never back anything up at all.


Hey Rlang, I'm still waiting for those studies. I shouldn't have to search. Your the one stating all these... ahem... "facts". If you state it, back it up. I'm looking for references, not links. My research goes beyond typing in usnic acid and DNP in a Google search. I suggest you do the same.



This guy is a riot.....lol

Rlang
05-26-2002, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by RockECU




Mitotic Spindle Formation takes place during Prophase (2nd phase of Mitosis). In the long run, if you inhibit this process, you inhibit the growth/production/replication of a new cell.

How this relates to Usnic Acid -

Well Mr. Chemistry -
Usnic acid has been used for many years in the East, even by some as a cancer preventative. Why a cancer preventative??

By disrupting mitosis (replication/growth/production) of cells, you may be able to stop the the cancerous growth from replicating itself, thus growing larger or spreading.

Well, one of these compounds that might dirrupt the process of mitosis in hopes of keeping cancerous growths at bay is USNIC ACID.

Nope, that's not it, not at all. Back "East" they also "cure" diseases with leeches and herbal / holistic crap (doesn't really cure anything you know). Any studies on your cancer theory? No. In fact your explanation is not even coherent, I wonder what misinformed post you cut and pasted it from. ****, you can find hundreds of Doctors who still today deny that smoking has anything to do with cancer, as ludicrous as that is. But you won't find a knowledgeable chemist / doctor back usnic acid, wonder why? because there is EXTREMELY persuasive evidence out there.

Also, I tried UA for the sole comparison to DNP as an uncoupler, not becasue I expected anything from it. Yes, DNP is safer. I don't have yellow semen, green pee, or yellow sweat, and at 175 I'm taking 800 mg day right now, explain that. Most horror stories are exagerated bull****. I've put 3 people I know on it, as well as myself and monitored them all. None of them have suffered these sides. And it's not the sides that make UA worse than DNP, it's what it does in your body. The damage is not something you will notice, it is just something that happens, and is irreversible. Like I said it's out there, but I'm not going to just hand it to you. It IS on the net.

Now I'll state, I HATE testosterone.net and BIOTEST, I despise them, they're crooks. But what they wrote on UA was not that far off and would be a good place to start to find what I'm talking about. Everyone discredits it because, so and so, knows so and so who read a response that some Dr. in Texas wrote....blah, blah. I've read the response and it held less water than the testosterone article, it didn't even warrant a rebuttle. You guys do what you want, you will be sorry some day, but I guess you know everything huh, I don't even feel bad anymore. Hard-headedness is hard-headedness. Why would I care to advise against something if there was no evidence that it was ineffective and unsafe. I would be the first to support it, as I do certain things (none of which I have any stake in, unlike many here), but not when there is strong evidence to the contrary.

Flo32
05-26-2002, 03:57 AM
**** man this thread is good!!

I like this sort fo discussion!

I want results not excuses!!

RockECU
05-26-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Rlang


Nope, that's not it, not at all.

#1-Then, please, Mr. Chemisty, please explain it to all of us...

Back "East" they also "cure" diseases with leeches and herbal / holistic crap (doesn't really cure anything you know). Any studies on your cancer theory?

#2-I didn't even state the word "cure" in my last post.

No. In fact your explanation is not even coherent, I wonder what misinformed post you cut and pasted it from.

#3-refer to #1, and I did not cut and paste it from anything.. Why would I need to.. Mitotic spindle formation is something I learned in introductory biology. Do you think you're some scientist or something because you know what it is too??

****, you can find hundreds of Doctors who still today deny that smoking has anything to do with cancer, as ludicrous as that is.

#4 -Please stick to the topic at hand.


But you won't find a knowledgeable chemist / doctor back usnic acid, wonder why? because there is EXTREMELY persuasive evidence out there.

#5-I'd like to see "knowledgeable chemist (not you) / doctor back DNP as well..


Also, I tried UA for the sole comparison to DNP as an uncoupler, not becasue I expected anything from it.

#6-But if it's so horrible for you, I don't understand why you'd even consider trying it just to compare it to DNP as an uncoupler.

Yes, DNP is safer. I don't have yellow semen, green pee, or yellow sweat, and at 175 I'm taking 800 mg day right now, explain that.

#7-Like I said before... DNP and safe, in the same sentence?? c'mon! And you're a buck 75 and using DNP?? What for??
I've talked with PLENTY of people who have used DNP and they can attest to the discolorations of their pee/semen/sweat.
-People have DIED from taking DNP, I have yet to hear from someone who has died within days after ingesting usnic acid.

Most horror stories are exagerated bull****. I've put 3 people I know on it, as well as myself and monitored them all. None of them have suffered these sides. And it's not the sides that make UA worse than DNP, it's what it does in your body.

#8-You don't think side effects stem from what's occuring in your body?? I think you should stick to chemistry and not biology/anatomy.

The damage is not something you will notice, it is just something that happens, and is irreversible. Like I said it's out there, but I'm not going to just hand it to you. It IS on the net.

#9-If you truly give a ****, please point me, and everyone else to what you have found. Until you can/do, I and most everyone else here will hold your opinions with a grain of salt. I have yet to see you back up what you claim.. Good researchers back up what they claim, you're obviously avoiding that issue.


Now I'll state, I HATE testosterone.net and BIOTEST, I despise them, they're crooks. But what they wrote on UA was not that far off and would be a good place to start to find what I'm talking about. Everyone discredits it because, so and so, knows so and so who read a response that some Dr. in Texas wrote....blah, blah. I've read the response and it held less water than the testosterone article, it didn't even warrant a rebuttle.

#10-so you're leading us to a testosterone article, but then saying that the Testosterone article doesn't hold much more water than what a Dr. in Texas wrote.

You guys do what you want, you will be sorry some day, but I guess you know everything huh, I don't even feel bad anymore.

#11-NO, I'll be the FIRST to admit I don't know everything.. PLEASE TEACH ME THOUGH.. that's all I ask... If you've got stuff to back up what you say, show me.. If you show me facts, I may change my stance based on what I've found.. But after searching for information on uncouplers (and currently writing an article about uncouplers - using over 230 peer reviewed studies - I didn't find anything that you claim).

Hard-headedness is hard-headedness. Why would I care to advise against something if there was no evidence that it was ineffective and unsafe.

#12- I don't know, but refer to #11.

I would be the first to support it, as I do certain things (none of which I have any stake in, unlike many here), but not when there is strong evidence to the contrary.

#13-Refer to #11, #9

badpta
05-26-2002, 07:30 PM
I agree. You say you are trying to inform us that we are taking a very dangerous supplement, but when we ask you where to find it ...you just say look for it. You say you are very knowlegable about dnp and ua, but right now it just seems like opinion. Hey, i am not saying that i know anything, but there are some reports that say it is safe. On the other hand you say that ua is dangerous, and when we ask for proof, you say justtolook for it. ok then i admit it i am a meathead, i can't find anything. will you please tell us where the info is?

RockECU
05-27-2002, 07:56 PM
Rlang??

Bobo
05-27-2002, 08:40 PM
Point, Set, Match....I think that says about everything Rock

RockECU
05-27-2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Bobo
Point, Set, Match....I think that says about everything Rock

Hell.. all I wanted was to see these studies he's talking about that I couldn't seem to find..

Bobo
05-27-2002, 09:01 PM
Thats why I brought it up in the beginning. I knew he couldn't do it. :)

Rlang
05-28-2002, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Bobo
Thats why I brought it up in the beginning. I knew he couldn't do it. :)

Hmmm... No that's not it. Honestly I rarely check this board (twice a week?), and never scan past the first page. I'm tired of arguing with simpletons, seriously, we're not even discussing things on the same level. And I'm just not the type to spoon feed information that I took the time to find and learn myself. You can believe me, or think I'm full of ****, I really don't care. But there is a lot of info out there. If you're truely interested (which I doubt you are) go to Meso and email or PM "Dr. X", maybe he'll take the time to help you. Honestly it's quite a lengthy explanation, and I'm tired of this dumb ****. I hope not to many people here ONLY rely on this board for knowledgeable info, because it's not just the UA, there is a lot really false info that gets stated around here, and I'm not even getting into some of the "opinions" yet. But thanks for the vote of confidence, "Bobo".

Seriously, email Mr. X, you'll learn everything you want (or don't want) to know. I think I've talked with Fonz at Elite about it a long time ago too. Bill Roberts has written on it as well, although I forget now where I read his article. If you haven't come by this info, and you're writing an "article" on UA, God help us. I would hate to come across an even on-line mag with such non-existent guidelines for author qualifications. Maybe you can dazzle the world with everything you learned in "Intro to Bio" (Science majors aren't even required to take the 'intro' classes). I'll notify the Pulitzers. Good luck!

Layne_Norton
05-28-2002, 12:36 AM
Rlang

I think people here are just confused to why you would take UA knowing how harmful it is to you and knowing that it doesnt even compare to DNP as too its fat burning capabilities.

Bobo
05-28-2002, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Rlang


Hmmm... No that's not it. Honestly I rarely check this board (twice a week?), and never scan past the first page. I'm tired of arguing with simpletons, seriously, we're not even discussing things on the same level. And I'm just not the type to spoon feed information that I took the time to find and learn myself. You can believe me, or think I'm full of ****, I really don't care. But there is a lot of info out there. If you're truely interested (which I doubt you are) go to Meso and email or PM "Dr. X", maybe he'll take the time to help you. Honestly it's quite a lengthy explanation, and I'm tired of this dumb ****. I hope not to many people here ONLY rely on this board for knowledgeable info, because it's not just the UA, there is a lot really false info that gets stated around here, and I'm not even getting into some of the "opinions" yet. But thanks for the vote of confidence, "Bobo".

Seriously, email Mr. X, you'll learn everything you want (or don't want) to know. I think I've talked with Fonz at Elite about it a long time ago too. Bill Roberts has written on it as well, although I forget now where I read his article. If you haven't come by this info, and you're writing an "article" on UA, God help us. I would hate to come across an even on-line mag with such non-existent guidelines for author qualifications. Maybe you can dazzle the world with everything you learned in "Intro to Bio" (Science majors aren't even required to take the 'intro' classes). I'll notify the Pulitzers. Good luck!

Once again you avoid the subject of true and accurate references and tell us to "PM" other people. How funny is that? You criticize us for listening to credible people, yet inform us to "PM" somebody else when it comes to you backing up your statements. I think you've contradicted yoursefl about as much as you could of on this subject. You've proved your worthfullness and showed that your limited studies in chemistry got you in way in over your head this time. Once again I ask for case studies.....10 to 1 he doesn't come up with jack....Any takers?

Ice Man
05-28-2002, 08:32 AM
I just think its funny that you say



There is VERY strong research that suggests that DNP is safer than UA, for a number of reasons.


You go on to say

Originally posted by Rlang


Also, I tried UA for the sole comparison to DNP as an uncoupler, not becasue I expected anything from it. Yes, DNP is safer. I don't have yellow semen, green pee, or yellow sweat, and at 175 I'm taking 800 mg day right now, explain that.



Well I don't understand how you can say DNP is safer just because you didn't have any of these symptoms. Its seems like you would be comparing symptoms as the end all comparison, but that wouldn't make sense because you also say

Most horror stories are exagerated bull****. I've put 3 people I know on it, as well as myself and monitored them all. None of them have suffered these sides. And it's not the sides that make UA worse than DNP, it's what it does in your body. The damage is not something you will notice, it is just something that happens, and is irreversible.



I don't understand how you can just say that you don't agree with what most people say about DNP sides because you haven't seen these sides, even at high doses, but you do agree with the effect that UA has on the body even though you haven't seen them either, let alone checked to see if any of these effects did indeed occur. Do you see why your comments have holes to some?

-Ice

brwnsuga
05-28-2002, 12:14 PM
I posted this in my Usnic Acid (two week cycle) thread, but wanted to add it here in case anyone has more information to provide :)

Is it possible for the body to overcompensate (in a positive way) for the uncoupling effects of UA? The past few training days are some of the best I've had in a while. It could just be my mind playing tricks on me, but I feel as if I have more energy when lifting. My thought is: Since the body is increasing ATP production because of UA's uncoupling effects, perhaps the ATP production is not specific to certain tissues.

princessbigman
05-28-2002, 12:17 PM
i think most of the other companys out there may just be afraid to put it in there product because of the fda

Rlang
05-28-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Ice Man
I just think its funny that you say

You go on to say

Well I don't understand how you can say DNP is safer just because you didn't have any of these symptoms. Its seems like you would be comparing symptoms as the end all comparison, but that wouldn't make sense because you also say

***No, I'm obviously NOT comparing symptoms. On DNP I sweat my ass off, don't sleep as well (although it's not a problem), and I get very sore after my workouts. On UA, I felt nothing, I had no symptoms at all. The problem with UA is not something you feel, it's something that hapens in your body. And I'm not as narrow-minded as to just go on my own results. I know literally dozens of people who have used DNP and never had yellow sweats, green semen, whatever... My friends and I have always gotten our own DNP and dealt with / capped it ourselves. Unlike most people we have always known EXACTLY what we were taking, measured to the molecule (almost, we have VERY good scales). We also all have done our research, and unlike most dumb ****s, don't just take it making no adjustment to diet and or training. There is a right way, and a wrong way. We have always done it the right way, and it has been very safe. I have friends who have done 3 day cycles at 1 gram a day. While I don't suggest this (I've never gone over 800 myself), if you're intelligent enough to know what you're getting into, it can be done "fairly" safely.

Am I saying DNP is safe and people should use it? No, I'm not. MOST people shouldn't. Look at the dumb ass in NY who first run did 600 mg of crystal and then went drinking. People see that dumb article and think, "DNP can KILL YOU!". No 600 mg of crystal DNP combined with alcohol can though. Most people are just idiots. If someone is on a message boards asking questions if they should drink alcohol, or what supplements should they be taking with it, ****, it scares me to think such a lazy ass could even get ahold of DNP. But for those who are dead serious, and compete, it can be very helpful, and dangerous only if you're stupid. ***

It's funny how "Bobo", haha, questions my "classes" in Chemistry. I have a Chemistry Degree from a college that it is a safe bet "Bobo" couldn't even get in. I just finished graduate school a short time ago too, so "Bobo", how is the 10th grade treating you? Whatever, stupidass.

People keep saying, "why would you do it if you know it's so unhealthy?" That's easy, for me at least. I can read about everything I want til I'm blue in the face, but nothing substitutes for human experience. Fact is, I've done almost any drug you can name at some point in time (with the exception of injectible anabolics, for personal reasons that's all). Now I've never been the guy strung out all the time, in fact most things I would do once or twice and move on, I don't have an addictive personality. I took Oxy for 2 months after I blew out my back, and stopped cold turkey when I no longer needed it, so I know myself well and I'm OK. Have I done some damage over the years? I'm sure, a little bit. But I keep a close check on it. I did Lipo about 3 years ago, or so, I forget, and remember thinking it was "ok", so I thought I'd try the UA to see if it was similair, it wasn't. Can I explain that? No, but it's something, the two are NOT the same, not at all, not even close. (This has been confirmed by several others besides myself that I've spoken with).

I work a lot, and I'm very busy. Right now I don't have an explanation written up on UA, and I'm not just going to post my references to have some halfwit here misinterpret it before I can address it. IF I GET TIME, early next week at the earliest, I'll TRY to write up the research on why UA is such a bad idea. OK? As much as this is not even worth my time, it will be nice to shut some of you the hell up, although my main reason for taking the time would be to persuade anything who is still thinking of trying it to decide against it. But that would be bad for business here huh? Tough ****. Til next week.....maybe....

Bobo
05-28-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Rlang


***No, I'm obviously NOT comparing symptoms. On DNP I sweat my ass off, don't sleep as well (although it's not a problem), and I get very sore after my workouts. On UA, I felt nothing, I had no symptoms at all. The problem with UA is not something you feel, it's something that hapens in your body. And I'm not as narrow-minded as to just go on my own results. I know literally dozens of people who have used DNP and never had yellow sweats, green semen, whatever... My friends and I have always gotten our own DNP and dealt with / capped it ourselves. Unlike most people we have always known EXACTLY what we were taking, measured to the molecule (almost, we have VERY good scales). We also all have done our research, and unlike most dumb ****s, don't just take it making no adjustment to diet and or training. There is a right way, and a wrong way. We have always done it the right way, and it has been very safe. I have friends who have done 3 day cycles at 1 gram a day. While I don't suggest this (I've never gone over 800 myself), if you're intelligent enough to know what you're getting into, it can be done "fairly" safely.

Am I saying DNP is safe and people should use it? No, I'm not. MOST people shouldn't. Look at the dumb ass in NY who first run did 600 mg of crystal and then went drinking. People see that dumb article and think, "DNP can KILL YOU!". No 600 mg of crystal DNP combined with alcohol can though. Most people are just idiots. If someone is on a message boards asking questions if they should drink alcohol, or what supplements should they be taking with it, ****, it scares me to think such a lazy ass could even get ahold of DNP. But for those who are dead serious, and compete, it can be very helpful, and dangerous only if you're stupid. ***

It's funny how "Bobo", haha, questions my "classes" in Chemistry. I have a Chemistry Degree from a college that it is a safe bet "Bobo" couldn't even get in. I just finished graduate school a short time ago too, so "Bobo", how is the 10th grade treating you? Whatever, stupidass.

People keep saying, "why would you do it if you know it's so unhealthy?" That's easy, for me at least. I can read about everything I want til I'm blue in the face, but nothing substitutes for human experience. Fact is, I've done almost any drug you can name at some point in time (with the exception of injectible anabolics, for personal reasons that's all). Now I've never been the guy strung out all the time, in fact most things I would do once or twice and move on, I don't have an addictive personality. I took Oxy for 2 months after I blew out my back, and stopped cold turkey when I no longer needed it, so I know myself well and I'm OK. Have I done some damage over the years? I'm sure, a little bit. But I keep a close check on it. I did Lipo about 3 years ago, or so, I forget, and remember thinking it was "ok", so I thought I'd try the UA to see if it was similair, it wasn't. Can I explain that? No, but it's something, the two are NOT the same, not at all, not even close. (This has been confirmed by several others besides myself that I've spoken with).

I work a lot, and I'm very busy. Right now I don't have an explanation written up on UA, and I'm not just going to post my references to have some halfwit here misinterpret it before I can address it. IF I GET TIME, early next week at the earliest, I'll TRY to write up the research on why UA is such a bad idea. OK? As much as this is not even worth my time, it will be nice to shut some of you the hell up, although my main reason for taking the time would be to persuade anything who is still thinking of trying it to decide against it. But that would be bad for business here huh? Tough ****. Til next week.....maybe....

Once again, sources? You talk so much and say so little. Grad school? I have a B.A. in Anthropology, History, and Criminal Justice and currently in my 2nd year of law school. If you want my office hours you can call me and I'll be happy to put any doubt you have to rest. I've also been bodybuilding and have had experience in the athletic field my whole life. I played collegiate hockey for a nationally ranked school and bodybuilding ever since I was 18. You've done nothing but contradict, backtrack and make yourself look like a complete idiot throughout this debate. You've never backed up anything on your statements, and refuse to post your references because your afraid we will interprit it before you do. Umm...I thought you've read these sources? Shouldn't you have your own interpretation by now? Oh thats right, you don't blindly follow case study. You base your knowledge on human experience and not just reading until your blue in the face. I guess will be base scientific study now on everyone's individuals experience and thrown case study and experimentation out the window. Well my suggestion is that you DO read until your blue in the face because obvisouly the way you've conducted yourself here, you need it. Your so called knowledablge peers have never shown up, never defended you, never proved right a single word you said. In other words, your a fraud and it shows now by you trying to divert the original debate to your own personal ramblings...about nothing. Its kind fo funny how you recommend everyone not to take UA because you've tried it and all your friends of tried it, and all your knowledablge peer have tried it. Looks like they take your opinion with as much credibility as we do.


Next time could you please at least provide something, anything, that backs up something that you've said? Or could you at least try to counter Rock's points with something other than your opinion?

RockECU
05-28-2002, 07:57 PM
To be honest, I'm sick of replying to these cop-out retorts of his... He could have saved himself a HELL of a lot of time by just giving us the references to what he has found, rather than trying to attack us all for just flat out wanting the references.. I'm trying to find the logic in that. Not to mention he wants me to PM a guy, talk to a guy from Elite (of course the greatest of boards) and the almighty Bill Roberts..

I'm sorry, but Bill Roberts, IMO, isn't an exclusive authority for how things work IN THE BODY.

That seems to be one common theme I see in chemists, they think that just because so and so reaction proceeds like this on paper, that it must proceed like this and only this every where else.. IMO - WRONG! (ie - Why is it then that some people get gyno from prohormones, and some don't?? - Even when people have said, most of the time coming from Bill Roberts, that so and so prohormone can't aromatize.. )

There is nothing that is 100% known in the human body, we are all different and all react different to diff't stimuli.

Bobo
05-28-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by RockECU
To be honest, I'm sick of replying to these cop-out retorts of his... He could have saved himself a HELL of a lot of time by just giving us the references to what he has found, rather than trying to attack us all for just flat out wanting the references.. I'm trying to find the logic in that. Not to mention he wants me to PM a guy, talk to a guy from Elite (of course the greatest of boards) and the almighty Bill Roberts..

I'm sorry, but Bill Roberts, IMO, isn't an exclusive authority for how things work IN THE BODY.

That seems to be one common theme I see in chemists, they think that just because so and so reaction proceeds like this on paper, that it must proceed like this and only this every where else.. IMO - WRONG! (ie - Why is it then that some people get gyno from prohormones, and some don't?? - Even when people have said, most of the time coming from Bill Roberts, that so and so prohormone can't aromatize.. )

There is nothing that is 100% known in the human body, we are all different and all react different to diff't stimuli.

Thats why its funny hearing someone supposedly educated in the scientific field base their deductions on human experiences, rather than science.

RockECU
05-28-2002, 08:17 PM
i'm going to post a few pertinant studies...

Record: 10

Title: The significance of lichens and their metabolites.
Author(s): Huneck S
Source: Die Naturwissenschaften [Naturwissenschaften] 1999 Dec; 86
(12), pp. 559-70.
Pub. Type: Journal Article; Review; Review, Academic
Language: English
Journal Info: Country of Publication: GERMANY NLM ID: 0400767 ISSN:
0028-1042
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: Lichens/*physiology
Air Pollution/analysis. Environmental Monitoring/methods.
Fungi/physiology. Human. Lichens/metabolism. Perfume. Plant
Physiology. Plants, Medicinal. Support, Non-U.S. Gov't. Symbiosis.
Abstract: Lichens, symbiontic organisms of fungi and algae, synthesize
numerous metabolites, the "lichen substances," which comprise
aliphatic, cycloaliphatic, aromatic, and terpenic compounds. Lichens
and their metabolites have a manifold biological activity: antiviral,
antibiotic, antitumor, allergenic, plant growth inhibitory,
antiherbivore, and enzyme inhibitory. Usnic acid, a very active lichen
substance is used in pharmaceutical preparations. Large amounts of
Pseudevernia furfuracea and Evernia prunastri are processed in the
perfume industry, and some lichens are sensitive reagents for the
evaluation of air pollution.
No. of References: 121
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Perfume)
Revision Date: 20001218
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 20000203 Date Completed: 20000203
Citation ID(s): PMID: 10643590 Medline UI: 20108202
Database: MEDLINE

Rlang - notice : antitumor, and used in pharmaceutical preparations

brwnsuga
05-28-2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Rlang
I did Lipo about 3 years ago, or so, I forget, and remember thinking it was "ok", so I thought I'd try the UA to see if it was similair, it wasn't. Can I explain that? No, but it's something, the two are NOT the same, not at all, not even close. (This has been confirmed by several others besides myself that I've spoken with).


Lipokinetix (Amount per capsule): Caffeine 100mg, 1R, 2S Norephedrine HCL 25mg, Yohimbine HCL 3mg, Diodothyronine 100mcg, Sodium Usniate 100mg

Usnic Acid: Usnic Acid

I assume that I DO NOT have to explain the difference.

RockECU
05-28-2002, 08:19 PM
Record: 15

Title: Lichen metabolites. 2. Antiproliferative and cytotoxic activity
of gyrophoric, usnic, and diffractaic acid on human keratinocyte
growth.
Author(s): Kumar KC; Müller K
Author's Address: Institut für Pharmazie, Universität Regensburg,
D-93040 Regensburg, Germany.
Source: Journal of natural products [J Nat Prod] 1999 Jun; 62 (6), pp.
821-3.
Pub. Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Info: Country of Publication: UNITED STATES NLM ID: 7906882
ISSN: 0163-3864
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: Anisoles/*pharmacology
Antineoplastic Agents/*isolation & purification
Benzofurans/*pharmacology
Benzoic Acids/*pharmacology
Hydroxybenzoic Acids/*pharmacology
Keratinocytes/*drug effects
Lichens/*chemistry
Anisoles/isolation & purification. Antineoplastic Agents/pharmacology.
Arachidonic Acid/metabolism. Benzofurans/isolation & purification.
Benzoic Acids/isolation & purification. Cell Division/drug effects.
Human. Hydroxybenzoic Acids/isolation & purification.
Keratinocytes/enzymology. Lactate Dehydrogenase/metabolism.
Lichens/metabolism. Lipoxygenase/metabolism. Support, Non-U.S. Gov't.
Tumor Cells, Cultured.
Abstract: The sensitivity of the human keratinocyte cell line HaCaT to
several lichen metabolites isolated from Parmelia nepalensis and
Parmelia tinctorum was evaluated. The tridepside gyrophoric acid (6),
the dibenzofuran derivative (+)-usnic acid (1), and the didepside
diffractaic acid (5) were potent antiproliferative agents and
inhibited cell growth, with IC50 values of 1.7, 2.1, and 2.6 microM,
respectively. Methyl beta-orcinolcarboxylate (2), ethyl hematommate
(3), the didepside atranorin (4), and (+)-protolichesterinic acid (7)
did not influence keratinocyte growth at concentrations of 5 microM.
Keratinocytes were further tested for their susceptibility to the
action of the potent antiproliferative agents on plasma membrane
integrity. The release of lactate dehydrogenase activity into the
culture medium was unchanged as compared to controls, documenting that
the activity of gyrophoric acid (6), (+)-usnic acid (1), and
diffractaic acid (5) was due to cytostatic rather than cytotoxic
effects.
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Anisoles)
0 (Antineoplastic Agents)
0 (Benzofurans)
0 (Benzoic Acids)
0 (Hydroxybenzoic Acids)
125-46-2 (usnic acid)
436-32-8 (diffractaic acid)
506-32-1 (Arachidonic Acid)
548-89-0 (gyrophoric acid)
EC 1.1.1.27 (Lactate Dehydrogenase)
EC 1.13.11.12 (Lipoxygenase)
Revision Date: 20001218
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19990827 Date Completed: 19990827
Citation ID(s): PMID: 10395495 Medline UI: 99324035
Database: MEDLINE

RockECU
05-28-2002, 08:21 PM
Record: 13

Title: Some lichen products have antimicrobial activity.
Author(s): Garcia Rowe J; Garcia Gimenez MD; Saenz Rodriguez MT
Author's Address: Laboratory of Vegetal Biology, Faculty of Pharmacy,
University of Seville, Spain.
Source: Zeitschrift fur Naturforschung. C, A journal of biosciences [Z
Naturforsch [C]] 1999 Jul-Aug; 54 (7-8), pp. 605-9.
Pub. Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Info: Country of Publication: GERMANY NLM ID: 8912155 ISSN:
0341-0382
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: Anti-Infective Agents/*isolation & purification
Lichens/*chemistry
Anti-Infective Agents/pharmacology. Microbial Sensitivity Tests.
Abstract: Antimicrobial activity in some lichens from south Spain has
been studied. Some lichenical substances are also identified. The
structures of all compounds were elucidated by physical, spectral and
chemical methods. A very high activity against Gram-positive bacteria
has been observed in lichens containing usnic acid.
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Anti-Infective Agents)
Revision Date: 20001218
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19991102 Date Completed: 19991102
Citation ID(s): PMID: 10488570 Medline UI: 99418194
Database: MEDLINE
__________________________________________________ _______________

Record: 18

Title: Antimitotic effects of usnic acid on different biological
systems.
Author(s): Cardarelli M; Serino G; Campanella L; Ercole P; De Cicco
Nardone F; Alesiani O; Rossiello F
Author's Address: Centro Acidi Nucleici, Genetics and Molecular
Biology Department, Rome, Italy.
Source: Cellular and molecular life sciences : CMLS [Cell Mol Life
Sci] 1997 Aug; 53 (8), pp. 667-72.
Pub. Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Info: Country of Publication: SWITZERLAND NLM ID: 9705402
ISSN: 1420-682X
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: Antifungal Agents/*pharmacology
Antineoplastic Agents/*pharmacology
Benzofurans/*pharmacology
Mitosis/*drug effects
Adenocarcinoma/pathology. Benzofurans/administration & dosage. Cell
Division/drug effects. Cells, Cultured. Endometrial
Neoplasms/pathology. Female. Fusarium/drug effects. Fusarium/growth &
development. Human. Oxygen Consumption/drug effects. Plants, Toxic.
Protoplasts/drug effects. Saccharomyces cerevisiae/drug effects.
Tobacco/drug effects. Tumor Cells, Cultured.
Abstract: Usnic acid is a biosynthesis product characteristic of
several epiphytic lichens such as Evernia, Cladonia and Parmelia.
Usnic acid has several interesting biological properties. It is an
antibiotic and it also seems to exert an antimitotic action. It has
even been postulated that usnic acid can play a role as an
environmental indicator, since its concentration varies according to
the presence of toxic agents. A series of tests have been run on
different biological systems such as fungi, yeasts, plant cells and
neoplastic human cell cultures in order to make a general evaluation
of the properties of usnic acid and to highlight any analogy between
its effects on phylogenetically distant organisms. The results
obtained confirm some of the already known properties of usnic acid
and identify concentration ranges that are active against cells from
different organisms. Furthermore, at low concentrations, the acid
displays a capacity to stimulate cell metabolism in some of the
biological systems tested.
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Antifungal Agents)
0 (Antineoplastic Agents)
0 (Benzofurans)
125-46-2 (usnic acid)
Revision Date: 20011128
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19971121 Date Completed: 19971121
Citation ID(s): PMID: 9351470 Medline UI: 98012832
Database: MEDLINE
__________________________________________________ _______________

Record: 17

Title: Antimycobacterial activity of lichen metabolites in vitro.
Author(s): Ingólfsdóttir K; Chung GA; Skúlason VG; Gissurarson SR;
Vilhelmsdóttir M
Author's Address: Department of Pharmacy, University of Iceland,
Hagi/Hofsvallagata, 107 Reykjavik, Iceland.
Source: European journal of pharmaceutical sciences : official journal
of the European Federation for Pharmaceutical Sciences [Eur J Pharm
Sci] 1998 Apr; 6 (2), pp. 141-4.
Pub. Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Info: Country of Publication: NETHERLANDS NLM ID: 9317982
ISSN: 0928-0987
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: 4-Butyrolactone/*analogs & derivatives
Anti-Infective Agents/*pharmacology
Benzofurans/*pharmacology
Hydroxybenzoic Acids/*pharmacology
Lactones/*pharmacology
Lichens/*metabolism
Mycobacterium/*drug effects
Salicylic Acids/*pharmacology
4-Butyrolactone/isolation & purification.
4-Butyrolactone/pharmacology. Benzofurans/isolation & purification.
Comparative Study. Hydroxybenzoic Acids/isolation & purification.
Lactones/isolation & purification. Microbial Sensitivity Tests.
Salicylic Acids/isolation & purification. Support, Non-U.S. Gov't.
Abstract: Several compounds, whose structures represent the most
common chemical classes of lichen metabolites, were screened for in
vitro activity against Mycobacterium aurum, a non-pathogenic organism
with a similar sensitivity profile to M. tuberculosis. Of the
compounds tested, usnic acid from Cladonia arbuscula exhibited the
highest activity with an MIC value of 32 microg/ml. Atranorin and
lobaric acid, both isolated from Stereocaulon alpinum, salazinic acid
from Parmelia saxatilis and protolichesterinic acid from Cetraria
islandica all showed MIC values >/=125 microg/ml.
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Anti-Infective Agents)
0 (Benzofurans)
0 (Hydroxybenzoic Acids)
0 (Lactones)
0 (Salicylic Acids)
0 (salazinic acid)
125-46-2 (usnic acid)
1448-96-0 (protolichesterinic acid)
479-20-9 (atranorin)
522-53-2 (lobaric acid)
96-48-0 (4-Butyrolactone)
Revision Date: 20001218
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19990128 Date Completed: 19990128
Citation ID(s): PMID: 9795033 Medline UI: 99060012
Database: MEDLINE
__________________________________________________ _______________

RockECU
05-28-2002, 08:22 PM
Record: 16

Title: [A zinc sulfate and usnic acid preparation used as
post-surgical adjuvant therapy in genital lesions by Human
Papillomavirus]
Transliterated Title: Terapia adiuvante con un preparato a base di
zinco solfato e acido usnico delle lesioni genitali da Human Papilloma
virus (HPV) dopo trattamento chirurgico distruttivo.
Author(s): Scirpa P; Scambia G; Masciullo V; Battaglia F; Foti E;
Lopez R; Villa P; Malecore M; Mancuso S
Author's Address: Istituto di Clinica Ginecologica ed Ostetrica,
Università Cattolica del S. Cuore, Roma.
Source: Minerva ginecologica [Minerva Ginecol] 1999 Jun; 51 (6), pp.
255-60.
Pub. Type: Clinical Trial; Clinical Trial, Phase II; Journal Article;
Randomized Controlled Trial
Language: Italian
Journal Info: Country of Publication: ITALY NLM ID: 0400731 ISSN:
0026-4784
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: Benzofurans/*therapeutic use
Genital Diseases, Female/*virology
Papillomavirus, Human/*isolation & purification
Papovaviridae Infections/*surgery
Zinc Sulfate/*therapeutic use
Adult. Anti-Infective Agents/therapeutic use. Astringents/therapeutic
use. Chemotherapy, Adjuvant. Colposcopy. English Abstract. Female.
Genital Diseases, Female/drug therapy. Genital Diseases,
Female/surgery. Human. Papillomavirus, Human/drug effects.
Papovaviridae Infections/drug therapy. Papovaviridae
Infections/virology. Postoperative Period. Radiosurgery.
Abstract: BACKGROUND: To evaluate the efficacy and safety of
intravaginal administration of a zinc sulphate and usnic acid compound
as adjuvant therapy of Human Papillomavirus (HPV) genital infection,
after radiosurgical treatment (RS). METHODS: One hundred patients
affected by HPV genital infection were enrolled in the study from
October 1996 to July 1998. Patients were classified according to
colposcopic and cytologic criteria and treated with RS. Patients were
randomized into three groups: the first group did not follow any
therapy after RS (control group), (n = 50); the second group was
pharmacologically treated with intravaginal administration of a usnic
acid and zinc sulphate compound (Zeta N, Bergamon Italia) before and
after RS (n = 25), the third group was pharmacologically treated only
after RS (n = 25). The last two groups were considered together for
the statistical analysis. Patients were reevaluated after one, two,
three and six months from electrocoagulation. The safety of treatment
was also investigated. RESULTS: One month after RS. HPV lesions
disappeared in 93% of the patients in the control group and in 100% of
patients treated with usnic acid and zinc sulphate. After one month,
reepithelization was complete in 65% of cases treated with usnic acid
and zinc sulphate and in only 28% of the control group (p = 0.001).
Two months later reepithelization was 94% in the patients
pharmacologically treated compared to 76% of the control group (p =
0.06). Treatment prior to RS resulted in a reduction of the overall
area of lesions in 88% of cases. Three months after RS, there was a
significant reduction of recurrence in the group treated with usnic
acid and zinc sulphate (p = 0.01). This reduction was still
significant at six months (p = 0.005). CONCLUSIONS: Usnic acid and
zinc sulphate adjuvant treatment improved time of reepithelization and
reduce the recurrence with few side effects and a good compliance.
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Anti-Infective Agents)
0 (Astringents)
0 (Benzofurans)
125-46-2 (usnic acid)
7733-02-0 (Zinc Sulfate)
Revision Date: 20001218
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19990928 Date Completed: 19990928
Citation ID(s): PMID: 10479878 Medline UI: 99409149
Database: MEDLINE
__________________________________________________ _______________

Record: 20

Title: Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of
mouse-liver mitochondria.
Author(s): Abo-Khatwa AN; al-Robai AA; al-Jawhari DA
Author's Address: Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Science, King
Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
Source: Natural toxins [Nat Toxins] 1996; 4 (2), pp. 96-102.
Pub. Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Info: Country of Publication: UNITED STATES NLM ID: 9212382
ISSN: 1056-9014
Citation Subsets: IM
MeSH Heading: Anti-Infective Agents/*toxicity
Mitochondria, Liver/*drug effects
Uncoupling Agents/*toxicity
2,4-Dinitrophenol/toxicity. Adenosine Triphosphate/biosynthesis.
Animal. Benzofurans/toxicity. Ca(2+) Mg(2+)-ATPase/metabolism.
Dose-Response Relationship, Drug. Furans/toxicity. Hydroxybenzoic
Acids/toxicity. In Vitro. Male. Mice. Mitochondria, Liver/metabolism.
Oligomycins/toxicity. Oxidative Phosphorylation. Oxygen
Consumption/drug effects. Phenylacetates/toxicity. Polarography.
Abstract: Three lichen acids-namely, (+)usnic acid, vulpinic acid, and
atranorin-were isolated from three lichen species (Usnea articulata,
Letharia vulpina, and Parmelia tinctorum, respectively). The effects
of these lichen products on mice-liver mitochondrial oxidative
functions in various respiratory states and on oxidative
phosphorylation were studied polarographically in vitro. The lichen
acids exhibited characteristics of the 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP), a
classical uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. Thus, they released
respiratory control and oligomycin inhibited respiration, hindered ATP
synthesis, and enhanced Mg(+2)-ATPase activity. (+)Usnic acid at a
concentration of 0.75 microM inhibited ADP/O ratio by 50%, caused
maximal stimulation of both state-4 respiration (100%) and ATPase
activity (300%). Atranorin was the only lichen acid with no
significant effect on ATPase. The uncoupling effect was dose-dependent
in all cases. The minimal concentrations required to cause complete
uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation were as follows: (+)usnic acid
(1 microM), vulpinic acid, atranorin (5 microM) and DNP (50 microM).
It was postulated that the three lichen acids induce uncoupling by
acting on the inner mitochondrial membrane through their lipophilic
properties and protonophoric activities.
CAS Registry No.: 0 (Anti-Infective Agents)
0 (Benzofurans)
0 (Furans)
0 (Hydroxybenzoic Acids)
0 (Oligomycins)
0 (Phenylacetates)
0 (Uncoupling Agents)
125-46-2 (usnic acid)
479-20-9 (atranorin)
51-28-5 (2,4-Dinitrophenol)
56-65-5 (Adenosine Triphosphate)
73622-57-8 (vulpinic acid)
EC 3.6.1.- (Ca(2+) Mg(2+)-ATPase)
Revision Date: 20001218
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19961101 Date Completed: 19961101
Citation ID(s): PMID: 8726330 Medline UI: 96289784
Database: MEDLINE

RockECU
05-28-2002, 08:46 PM
Rlang - take note - that only took me 2 minutes to do.

Bobo
05-28-2002, 10:54 PM
"The lichen acids exhibited characteristics of the 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP), a classical uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation."


Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of mouse-liver mitochondria.
Nat Toxins. 1996;4(2):96-102


That took about 10 seconds....


Why are we siting sources? Should we have to?

RockECU
05-31-2002, 08:23 AM
bump for brwnsugr

princessbigman
06-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of mouse-liver mitochondria.

Abo-Khatwa AN, al-Robai AA, al-Jawhari DA.

Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Science, King Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

Three lichen acids-namely, (+)usnic acid, vulpinic acid, and atranorin-were isolated from three lichen species (Usnea articulata, Letharia vulpina, and Parmelia tinctorum, respectively). The effects of these lichen products on mice-liver mitochondrial oxidative functions in various respiratory states and on oxidative phosphorylation were studied polarographically in vitro. The lichen acids exhibited characteristics of the 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP), a classical uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. Thus, they released respiratory control and oligomycin inhibited respiration, hindered ATP synthesis, and enhanced Mg(+2)-ATPase activity. (+)Usnic acid at a concentration of 0.75 microM inhibited ADP/O ratio by 50%, caused maximal stimulation of both state-4 respiration (100%) and ATPase activity (300%). Atranorin was the only lichen acid with no significant effect on ATPase. The uncoupling effect was dose-dependent in all cases. The minimal concentrations required to cause complete uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation were as follows: (+)usnic acid (1 microM), vulpinic acid, atranorin (5 microM) and DNP (50 microM). It was postulated that the three lichen acids induce uncoupling by acting on the inner mitochondrial membrane through their lipophilic properties and protonophoric activities.

PMID: 8726330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

i found this it may or may not awnser questions so i posted it

Bobo
06-05-2002, 05:59 PM
Yeah. Thats the one I found in 30 seconds. I just didn't post the whole thing. The one sentence I posted says enough. But good job at proving once again, that he's wrong. :)

WHOSYOURDADDY02
06-05-2002, 07:54 PM
Heres to Usnic Acid! On Monday I weighed in at 178, today, 175....I haven't been able to get down to 175 since March 23rd. Ive been using about 400mg in the evenings.

Doogie
06-05-2002, 09:30 PM
I was wondering if it is safe for an 18 year old to take as part of a cutting cycle (about 6 weeks into my cutting)...I have taken ECA's for a few years now so I am well aware of their pros / cons. Also, I know that Adipo is good to take with the UA, but obviously next to impossible to find (weeping uncontrollably)...would TriCuts II stacked with Caffeine pills work well or should I stick with an ECA...I will also be using Lipoderm Y in conjunction with this stack so any help you have would be appreciated...BTW, I am 18, 5' 8" 180 pounds at 12% bodyfat...I'm interested in getting down to about 8 or 9 percent...Would adding ALA to the mix help at all or would this be overkill? Also, is it true that you need to bump up carbohydrate intake while on UA? (I believe this is what was stated about DNP and I believe they have similar uncoupling action). If I do decide to take it would 2 weeks on 2 weeks off be a good idea or should this be altered? Sorry for all of the questions, but I would really appreciate answers from such intelligent bros as yourselves...Thanks for any help you can provide...

AnthonyGoldsGym
06-07-2002, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by WHOSYOURDADDY02
Heres to Usnic Acid! On Monday I weighed in at 178, today, 175....I haven't been able to get down to 175 since March 23rd. Ive been using about 400mg in the evenings.

Heh heh...

<img src="http://216.40.201.38/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif"> <img src="http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/ruinkai/spam1.gif">

WHOSYOURDADDY02
07-15-2002, 09:13 PM
Hmm, its been quite a while now and you realize that Rlang never did post his studies. I personally think he was full of crap... I am still waiting for someone to provide research that clearly shows adverse effects to oral usnic acid use. I shall continue looking :)... Rock, if you could post any more studies that would be great... also, I believe you mentioned you were writing an article about UA, have you finished? Thanks

chevi97
07-24-2002, 03:26 PM
There is all this talk about UA, but what abou Sodium Unsinate, that is hwere its at, SU is a Derivative of UA, and that it is basically what is potent in the UA, and it works really really well, and it makes you feel every lethargic and supposedly causes liver damage, there is no evidence to back this but what kind of Liver Damage could it couse I dont know??? DOes anyone here know.

CitadelArmyJAG
02-08-2006, 09:16 AM
Interesting Thread... I have been brewing and drinking Kombucha tea for about 8 months now and it is amazing!

Dosquito
02-08-2006, 09:26 AM
Interesting Thread... I have been brewing and drinking Kombucha tea for about 8 months now and it is amazing!
How do you have time for all of these teas?

rbzxyz
03-19-2006, 01:54 PM
i see people talking about the pros an cons of usnic acid.well,first of all i havent seen anyone discuss the difference between the2,ie,powder vs. extract. ive seen through research that people buy it buy the powder that could be just lichin herb ground up.it seems 2 me that lichin powder compared2 the extract which is a yellowpowder in 98%pure usnic acid would be like comparing androstiendion to test cypionate.a kia vs.porch.
also the bad rep usnic has from what ive surched is just gossip perpetuated,from what ive researched. i read somewhere that a famous bodybuilder brock somthing (wont mention names an has abook)which by the way isnt a M.D.said usnic acid is dangerous(load of crap he couldnt substantiate).afew people supposidly had liver problems from usni acid.this is how it is ,people have adverse reactions 2 herbal powders,extracts and manufactured synthetic drugs whatever they may be.im gonna guess that 95-99% of the population doesnt(at least thats what ivefound from reading)so the bad rep perpetuated itself.from what ive researhed there no adverse affects from scientific study.rlang says there is no docter endorsement of usnic.there is! wright here on this board.i have yahoo.i put in usnic acid and found bodybuilding.com.a DR.MD.advocates and pesonnaly uses usnic acid.do a search.

MuscleTex
05-22-2006, 05:48 AM
Where the hell do you find Sodium Usniate?


I dont see any supplement stores online that sell it..