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C4C4
06-01-2007, 05:19 AM
Hi people,

I have one question, I am currently not taking any supplements at all, including no protein powders or shakes, and im only getting around 100 grams of protein per day through natural foods but I weigh 173 pounds. Do you guys think this will affect my progress? im clean bulking right now and also trying to keep my body fat stable while doing so.

DarinK
06-01-2007, 05:23 AM
If you are not taking any protein supps get your protein up to around 250g since you are bulking.

boyscouT
06-01-2007, 05:32 AM
im only getting around 100 grams of protein per day through natural foods but I weigh 173 pounds. Do you guys think this will affect my progress?
Yes, in a negative way.

C4C4
06-01-2007, 05:36 AM
thanks for the replies, im eating chicken breasts (as much as i can stomach) and egg whites and sometimes grilled lean steaks, any ideas on what else i can munch to almost double my current protein intake?

boyscouT
06-01-2007, 05:42 AM
thanks for the replies, im eating chicken breasts (as much as i can stomach) and egg whites and sometimes grilled lean steaks, any ideas on what else i can munch to almost double my current protein intake?
Proteins:

Egg Whites
Chicken
Turkey
Beef
Pork
Tuna / Salmon / Seafood
Tofu
Whey protein powder
Casein protein powder
Essentially most any other source of protein

v4lu3s
06-01-2007, 05:49 AM
you need to eat more!
how are you ONLY eating enough to get 100 grams of protein? If you eat 6 oz of chicken 4 times a day you would be getting 190+ grams of protein.
I would call that a minimum for your size.

Belloc
06-01-2007, 05:51 AM
Let me state my opinion think about it even if you don't follow it: it's a misconception that you need extreme ammounts of protein.

I think you could do quite well with 120 grs of protein but, and this is very important, what you have to figure out is the right ammount of carbs you should be taking to avoid glucogenesis

once you've figure out the ammount of carbs you need for the energy expenditure each day, your body won't turn to burning protein as an energy source but it will use it for its intended use.

The most lean and muscular people I know use this principle, they use carbs as the source for energy, protein to ensure proper functioning of the organism and fat to balance hormonal levels

the trick is to figure out what's perfect for you

DarinK
06-01-2007, 05:57 AM
Let me state my opinion think about it even if you don't follow it: it's a misconception that you need extreme ammounts of protein.

And where did you get this information? What scientific tests did you conduct that led you to this conclusion which totally contradicts what everyone else is doing. And since when is 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight an "extreme" amount? He's bulking. He's going to need more than 120g of protein since he weighs 173.

Carnage
06-01-2007, 06:01 AM
You don't need supplements to gain.

Supplements are there ONLY to provide aid to a sound diet.

Without a sound diet, supplements are not going to be effective.

Belloc
06-01-2007, 06:29 AM
dkf10425 I am aware that what I've written goes completely against what most of you believe and that's why I've stated that it was my opinion and I just wanted to express it even if I get (and I will) bad reps for it.

This belief was passed down to me by my rugby coach not so long ago, he actually dropped out of medical school so I have no reason to doubt him.

Anyway it goes as follows:

A normal person needs 1 gram of protein for each kilo to ensure the body functions as it should since protein is of the utmost importance for cell renewal so everything from growing nails/hair to proper organ function requires protein.

Now if you play sports or are trying to add muscle mass you will need more protein but not in excessive ammounts.

If you are trying to gain lean mass (read muscle) without taking steroids or prohormones or the like, you will only be limited to the ammount of muscle you will able to gain in a week and you should search pubmed and other resources do check the maximal ammount of muscle a trainee can add in a week and it's not that much

meaning that you won't need 200 extra grams of protein a day but more like maybe 20

what you need to insure is that you have enough carbohydrates to make sure your body won't burn protein for energy , and fat to keep hormone levels at their best

from what I've read this is the principle most athletes use, it is very uncommon for rugby players to eat more than say 200 grs of protein a day and they are big.

I believe protein is very important but consuming so much is just sending wrong signals to the body that it's okay to go into glucogenesis

of course this doesn't apply if you want to lose weight as carbs are a very good source of energy and what you need to lose weight is energy expenditure

C4C4
06-01-2007, 06:41 AM
ah I see, thanx for the advice guys :)

TheKansan
06-01-2007, 11:05 AM
If you are cutting, and I am assuming you are, then the supplements that you should most be worried about taking are a good multivitamin, fish oil, and protein. I have read studies that say that people who have high amounts of protein in their diet lose more body fat overall than those who don't. Also keep in mind that because you are cutting your body may not be getting all the nutrients it needs. That is why a multivitamin is reccommended. Actually a multivitamin can be beneficial for everyone.

As for the fish oil, there are countless studies that prove that fish oil is very beneficial to cardiovascular health.

Good luck to you.

FerrariLord
06-01-2007, 11:31 AM
Get 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. My favorite natural source of protein is tuna. 37.5 grams in one can! If I were you I'd still buy some whey protein.

DarinK
06-01-2007, 11:51 AM
dkf10425 I am aware that what I've written goes completely against what most of you believe and that's why I've stated that it was my opinion and I just wanted to express it even if I get (and I will) bad reps for it.

This belief was passed down to me by my rugby coach not so long ago, he actually dropped out of medical school so I have no reason to doubt him.

Anyway it goes as follows:

A normal person needs 1 gram of protein for each kilo to ensure the body functions as it should since protein is of the utmost importance for cell renewal so everything from growing nails/hair to proper organ function requires protein.

Now if you play sports or are trying to add muscle mass you will need more protein but not in excessive ammounts.

If you are trying to gain lean mass (read muscle) without taking steroids or prohormones or the like, you will only be limited to the ammount of muscle you will able to gain in a week and you should search pubmed and other resources do check the maximal ammount of muscle a trainee can add in a week and it's not that much

meaning that you won't need 200 extra grams of protein a day but more like maybe 20

what you need to insure is that you have enough carbohydrates to make sure your body won't burn protein for energy , and fat to keep hormone levels at their best

from what I've read this is the principle most athletes use, it is very uncommon for rugby players to eat more than say 200 grs of protein a day and they are big.

I believe protein is very important but consuming so much is just sending wrong signals to the body that it's okay to go into glucogenesis

of course this doesn't apply if you want to lose weight as carbs are a very good source of energy and what you need to lose weight is energy expenditureWell I'm not going to neg you or give you a bad rep for expressing your opinion. I just don't agree with your advice or that of your rugby coach that couldn't make it in med school. And as far as going to sites like pubmed and doing a search for a study conducted by some skinny fat guy in a lab coat doing research on other skinny fat people, I ain't gonna do it. The only search I need to do is here on this site, where the members, IMO know a lot more than some guy with inch thick glasses in a lab coat.

jsartain
06-01-2007, 11:51 AM
Any particular reason you've decided not to take any supplements? Of course you can gain muscle without them, but that's when your eating a lot more. 100 grams isn't a whole lot. With your body weight I would try to at least double your intake. If you had protein shakes, with just 2 a day with 2 scoops in each one you could at least match your body weight.

I know this from my own experience. I use to eat about that much back in the day, then when I woke up and doubled my intake I finally started seeing REAL gains. On a 100 gram protein diet, my muscles would get harder but they sure didn't get bigger!

DJohnson
06-01-2007, 12:48 PM
There's no doubt you can gain muscle on diets with less than 1g/lb bodyweight of protein, although the medical community keeps upping what they recommend for "optimal" growth, last I saw is 1.2-1.8g/kg which is nearly 1g/lb.

Regardless if you will get optimal muscle gain with 1.2g/kg of protein, studies HAVE shown that you can match those gains and stay leaner with more protein and less carbs. Bodybuilding is all about getting huge AND staying lean so this is optimal.

A sport like Rugby there is no point to having single digit bodyfat and it can even be counter productive so higher carbs can be the way to go (more muscle glycogen and possibly better performance, but they won't look as pretty).

kidkurious
06-01-2007, 01:29 PM
A few years ago, I made huge gains without using supplements, but I had to eat A LOT...

However, I probably would have made faster and even bigger gains if I had used supplements, which is why I'm using them now.

WhySoSerious?
06-01-2007, 08:11 PM
well belloc taking protein shakes is bad for u
my mum told me - who went, and passed the little medical skool tests with flying colours and is a doctor and has been one for more than 17yrs

PeteB
06-01-2007, 08:59 PM
If you are trying to gain lean mass (read muscle) without taking steroids or prohormones or the like, you will only be limited to the ammount of muscle you will able to gain in a week and you should search pubmed and other resources do check the maximal ammount of muscle a trainee can add in a week and it's not that much

meaning that you won't need 200 extra grams of protein a day but more like maybe 20No disrespect to your coach, but many people believe that the extra protein is needed not just to build new muscle, but to help repair and rebuild the muscle you already have.

This accounts for the disparity in what may be sufficient for an average recreational athlete and what a typical competition bodybuilder or lifter needs after the much larger volume and intensity of their training, and to account for the amount of muscle mass they carry already.