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View Full Version : Is it true football players aren't allowed to curl



anikey
05-29-2007, 12:17 AM
A coach I know asks kids to run a mile if he catches them curling.. lol

Anyways, why is this discouraged? Is working biceps directly considered a sign of slacking off?

PowerBuilder08
05-29-2007, 12:23 AM
Working biceps is a waste of time for football..."Curls for the girls" is the saying. It's not functional for your sport one bit, and truly a waste of time.

kazman32
05-29-2007, 01:04 AM
Old football coach did the same thing (make you run for curling) called them 'beach muscles'.

SDOptimist
05-29-2007, 01:20 AM
when i played a couple yrs ago, we just lifted to certain program. now we didnt actually do curls in this program, even though most of us would do it on our free time, but its not like the coaches got anal about this. and in our lifts we didnt actually do curls but we did compound lifts that hit the biceps as well as other muscles. lol this is actually the first i ever heard somethiing like that.

WRbigbody
05-29-2007, 05:23 AM
keep curling... so you can get your curls in and get a mile run in so you can lose the gut (if you have one ) and get the arms for the summer!! :P

but foreal, I do alot of things in the weight room that arent just football specific just because I want to have a healthy body all around.... People place too much emphasis on strength and sport based exercises in the weight room.... being strong helps alot but I'd rather be the guy who is fast enough to be a threat to take the ball to the crib every play, rather than the guy who everyone knows is strong enough to plant you on your rump every play...

kensterz
05-29-2007, 06:06 AM
Well besides the looks, I don't see anything wrong with keeping your body in proportion with strength and stuff. It can't hurt to work them out, can it?

vican20
05-29-2007, 06:57 AM
yeah football coaches hate that...i just quit playing though i love bbing...and my coach hates watching me do it!
he was bitchin at me the other day is why i quit....
hes like you dont follow my weightlifting program..and he wants us doing 5x3 and 5x5's and im like **** that...hes a douche...so i quit...ill either not play or move schools...

OBeast
05-29-2007, 07:16 AM
I think curls help complete a player. heavy barbell curls work the biceps, forearms and to a smaller degree the hands. For linemen this is specially important. Blocking isnt just push, push, push like on the sled. A lot of it is grab and hold tight so the ref dont see. That is wear curls come in. No you shouldnt center your program around them like some kids like to, but they shouldnt be excluded.

olinerules87
05-29-2007, 07:17 AM
that coach probably knows that if he allows curls, everyone will focus on them rather than the money exercies like squats and power cleans.

mikeynice2000
05-29-2007, 07:36 AM
Football players should do sport specific lifts, and multi joint lifts...curls could be supplementary if you get all your structure/core lifts in and plyo's done

T1tleist
05-29-2007, 07:41 AM
Well besides the looks, I don't see anything wrong with keeping your body in proportion with strength and stuff. It can't hurt to work them out, can it?

I agree! why wouldn't you want to be more well round in strength

SecondSucks
05-29-2007, 08:39 AM
Our coach lets us do them after we're done with our core lifts. Thats when we do bi's, tri's, hammies, back, etc...

cljm
05-29-2007, 09:54 AM
When I played wide receiver, I noticed that biceps definitely made the difference in terms of ripping the ball from a corner in a disadvantaged position.

Cowart69
05-29-2007, 11:39 AM
My son does them when he comes to the gym with me.....

Main Core Lifts - Done in school in lifting class so the coaches can see he is working

Nice to do stuff - medicine ball, curling, abwork, back strengthening, calf work, quad work, hamstring work, etc etc is done with me.

As long as a football player understands that the core lifts are his bread and butter there is nothing wrong with curing after......helps to be well rounded

RaferAlston26
05-29-2007, 11:49 AM
yeah football coaches hate that...i just quit playing though i love bbing...and my coach hates watching me do it!
he was bitchin at me the other day is why i quit....
hes like you dont follow my weightlifting program..and he wants us doing 5x3 and 5x5's and im like **** that...hes a douche...so i quit...ill either not play or move schools...

5x5 is amazing! It meets hte requirements for hypertrophy and maximal strength.

G-mane12
05-29-2007, 01:34 PM
A coach I know asks kids to run a mile if he catches them curling.. lol

Anyways, why is this discouraged? Is working biceps directly considered a sign of slacking off?

Yeh, when I was in HS we never did bicept workouts.. now my bicepts are lagging behind the rest of my body because I didn't start really working them til like a year ago!

aspengc8
05-29-2007, 02:55 PM
Your bi's will grow plenty from doing weighted pull ups. If we wanted to 'work' our arms, our coach had us do extra sets of close grip bench, dips, and weighted chins at the end of the lifting sessions. Thats all we needed.

huskerfreak
05-29-2007, 02:57 PM
I do curls but that's because football isn't the only thing I do. arm wrestling is a thing at our school that students use to judge strength. it's not the most acurate judge, but hey, It's fun, and sometimes the only thing to do after lunch.

kevn594
05-29-2007, 03:32 PM
you use more than your bicep in arm wrestling lol

i work biceps sparingly. maybe once a week at the very end of my workout. id rather do extra work on my back or shoulders than bicep work though.

the idea of lineman needing curls to hold is dumb haha. im sure a lineman with no bicep or grip training at all can hold and therefore doesnt need 'extra' work just to cheat the refs.

curls are for girls. the end

LRG1
05-29-2007, 04:15 PM
Working biceps is a waste of time for football..."Curls for the girls" is the saying. It's not functional for your sport one bit, and truly a waste of time.

lol my coach actually encourages "curls for the girls" but he does it as a joke, becuase most of the team is ugly as **** and need something to attract the opposite sex.

trivium9
05-29-2007, 04:35 PM
Tell your coach your are only as strong as your weakest part

Veeshmack
05-29-2007, 05:59 PM
i find biceps are only good for covering the ball, but even then not as much as it gets trained by HS athletes

PowerBuilder08
05-29-2007, 06:14 PM
Geez, fellas, weighted chin-up and rows get more than enough bicep work done...YOU DON'T NEED TO DO CURLS!

Veeshmack
05-29-2007, 06:40 PM
Geez, fellas, weighted chin-up and rows get more than enough bicep work done...YOU DON'T NEED TO DO CURLS!

x100000000000000000000

frobro
05-29-2007, 07:33 PM
Geez, fellas, weighted chin-up and rows get more than enough bicep work done...YOU DON'T NEED TO DO CURLS!

Reps......

SDOptimist
05-29-2007, 07:48 PM
Geez, fellas, weighted chin-up and rows get more than enough bicep work done...YOU DON'T NEED TO DO CURLS!

thats pretty much what i said. we did compound lifts that hit the biceps as well as other muscle. so there no need to do an isolated lift like a curl.

Raidersfan15
05-29-2007, 08:59 PM
umm, I don't think they're absolutely worthless. If you are tackling you are using your back and biceps plus all the little muscles in the forearms to hold on to the guy.


But I'm not saying you should focus on them.

xKKx7
05-29-2007, 09:09 PM
yeah, i mean if u have time left over AFTER ur compound lifts, u can do auxiliary lifts. whats wrong with that? I think biceps are a great stabilizer, great for stripping the ball, linemen need it when the grip others for pass protection, run blocking, etc. I htink obviously compounds lifts come first but if u have time, why not sum curls?

M0b$$$
05-29-2007, 09:15 PM
I find it ironic that some of you who endorse WS4SB as a proven football program are denouncing curls. Now, I'm not saying that they are extremely important or anything, but I do think they should be included to an extent for balance's sake. Look at the repetition day for WS4SB...a elbow-flexion movement is included...which is a curl...

Ape escape
05-29-2007, 09:19 PM
Bill Kazmier used to curl 315 for 5 reps, curls aren't bad to do at all

roman25
05-29-2007, 09:58 PM
Most coaches now a days dont have them in there program becasue it gets enought work through the other exercises they have in there and they jsut want you to concentrate more of your effort on those lifts since thats whats going to make you a better football player although i think having defined arms is intimidating on the field to the other team lol but seriously i do think that. So if you want them on your free time knock yourself out

kevn594
05-29-2007, 10:02 PM
Bill Kazmier used to curl 315 for 5 reps, curls aren't bad to do at all

we are talking about its importance in football training not how much bill kazier used to curl. that doesnt even make an argument either lol

PowerBuilder08
05-29-2007, 11:32 PM
I find it ironic that some of you who endorse WS4SB as a proven football program are denouncing curls. Now, I'm not saying that they are extremely important or anything, but I do think they should be included to an extent for balance's sake. Look at the repetition day for WS4SB...a elbow-flexion movement is included...which is a curl...

Sorry kiddo, but I endorse Rippetoes.

As was said many times - YOUR BICEPS GET ENOUGH WORK FROM CHINS AND ROWS!!!! That is the type of movement you will be using any time your bicep comes into play, is a pulling movement. That is a driving force behind Rippetoes, that you don't need to do the isolation work, because your arms get enough work already.


yeah, i mean if u have time left over AFTER ur compound lifts, u can do auxiliary lifts. whats wrong with that? I think biceps are a great stabilizer, great for stripping the ball, linemen need it when the grip others for pass protection, run blocking, etc. I htink obviously compounds lifts come first but if u have time, why not sum curls?

This makes no sense, how do biceps help strip the ball, and how do they help an offensive lineman on blocking :confused:

xKKx7
05-30-2007, 12:25 AM
Sorry kiddo, but I endorse Rippetoes.

As was said many times - YOUR BICEPS GET ENOUGH WORK FROM CHINS AND ROWS!!!! That is the type of movement you will be using any time your bicep comes into play, is a pulling movement. That is a driving force behind Rippetoes, that you don't need to do the isolation work, because your arms get enough work already.



This makes no sense, how do biceps help strip the ball, and how do they help an offensive lineman on blocking :confused:

ok being an offensive linemen, i kno that biceps help strip the ball because when you strip the ball, u try to hug or rip out the ball from the other players hand (basically a hug-like movement). This obviously depends on biceps. It also helps in pass protection because even tho OL aren't allowed to hold onto the defensive linemen, if u can get under their pads and lock ur arms out,u can drag them in and out and this involves a lot of bicep work.

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 12:27 AM
ok being an offensive linemen, i kno that biceps help strip the ball because when you strip the ball, u try to hug or rip out the ball from the other players hand (basically a hug-like movement). This obviously depends on biceps. It also helps in pass protection because even tho OL aren't allowed to hold onto the defensive linemen, if u can get under their pads and lock ur arms out,u can drag them in and out and this involves a lot of bicep work.

Not sure what you mean by dragging them in and out...I know if you have your arms locked out and you are trying to control them a certain direction that is more chest, and if you pull them you are using your back, the bicep plays a minimal role. Also, when you are stripping the ball, it is more dependent on your back than anything else if I'm picturing what you're saying properly.

The point I was trying to make is that there is nothing in football where the bicep is isolated, hence there being no TRUE need to isolate the muscle, since chins and rows get the type of bicep work that you need.

kevn594
05-30-2007, 01:54 AM
the idea of offensive lineman using their biceps to hold onto defensive lineman is ridiculous. that takes no training at allll :) and an offensive lineman were to work on it, im sure he would just do grip training.

i dont see how stripping the ball would be bicep work either. if anything, i could see it as back work like ACBRITS said. it would be like an explosive row or something of that nature.

janssen_8_5
05-30-2007, 09:57 AM
Biceps are not NEEDED!! In football training, you want to get the most out of your workouts through the compound lifts. HOWEVER, IMO, they should be trained once a week. Rather, I do one arm superset in my routine of biceps and more important triceps. So, if you want to incorporate them, do it in moderation. Do not throw every curl and the kitchen sink at your biceps!

TheManchild
05-30-2007, 04:20 PM
well curls are deffinately key for wrestlers, and alot of wrestlers play football... like our coach knows we have to do extra forearm, back, and bicep work, and he's cool with it. he knows the wrestlers are the best all around atheletes in the school, (the good wrestlers, while maybe one or two straight up football players may be there too, but they generally dont have the same endurance) and that he needs the wrestlers, even if they dont like to be huge for football lol

bernbabybern820
05-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Not sure what you mean by dragging them in and out...I know if you have your arms locked out and you are trying to control them a certain direction that is more chest, and if you pull them you are using your back, the bicep plays a minimal role. Also, when you are stripping the ball, it is more dependent on your back than anything else if I'm picturing what you're saying properly.

The point I was trying to make is that there is nothing in football where the bicep is isolated, hence there being no TRUE need to isolate the muscle, since chins and rows get the type of bicep work that you need.

While i agree with you that saying that blocking involves the biceps is absurd, stripping the ball does involve the biceps. Not as much as the back of course but there is wrong with doing a couple of sets once a week.

watchandsee23
05-30-2007, 06:13 PM
Almost every movement that uses your back will activate your biceps.

908
05-30-2007, 07:33 PM
Most high school football coaches are retarded. Curls go a long way in football. Most importantly for blocking. I know as a receiver, bicep strength can help with stalk blocking, but it definitely helps way more for linemen because they can get away with holding a lot more. Also as a defensive player bicep strength can also help bringing an offensive player down if you can't immediately make the tackle the conventional formed up way.

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 07:39 PM
Most high school football coaches are retarded. Curls go a long way in football. Most importantly for blocking. I know as a receiver, bicep strength can help with stalk blocking, but it definitely helps way more for linemen because they can get away with holding a lot more. Also as a defensive player bicep strength can also help bringing an offensive player down if you can't immediately make the tackle the conventional formed up way.

Biceps...help for blocking??? Come again? :confused: Explain how?

Any push movement activates your triceps as a secondary muscle...a WR stalk block involves you "punching" the man you're blocking, which is a push movement, so how does this work the bicep?

Same with a lineman blocking, their primary objective at our school at least is to punch the guy, under no cirumstances do they pull the guy down.

Any pull movement is what activates your bicep. Are you sure you didn't mean triceps in your original post?

xKKx7
05-30-2007, 08:03 PM
Biceps...help for blocking??? Come again? :confused: Explain how?

Any push movement activates your triceps as a secondary muscle...a WR stalk block involves you "punching" the man you're blocking, which is a push movement, so how does this work the bicep?

Same with a lineman blocking, their primary objective at our school at least is to punch the guy, under no cirumstances do they pull the guy down.

Any pull movement is what activates your bicep. Are you sure you didn't mean triceps in your original post?

Maybe its cuz u havent done any pass blocking, but when you lock out ur arms, ur defensive lineman doesnt stay like perfectly still. hes gonna move and stuff and when ur arms are in that position, u do use ur biceps to hold ur men steady. i'm pretty sure when u strip the ball, its not 100% back. biceps definitely play a role, just like they do when u do thinks like rows. I'm not a huge fan of like curling 24/7, but i'm saying if ur done AFTER ur compound lifts and u have time to do auxiliary lifts, why not bicep curls? Also, when ur a defensive linemen, many defensive moves such as swimming, ripping, clubbing (ESP THIS ONE BECAUSE UR USE A LOT OF BICEPS HERE), and other moves involve a lot of biceps actually. even when the DL is pulling sum1 off him or bull rushing then swinging him off, that involves a lot of bicep use.

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 08:09 PM
Maybe its cuz u havent done any pass blocking, but when you lock out ur arms, ur defensive lineman doesnt stay like perfectly still. hes gonna move and stuff and when ur arms are in that position, u do use ur biceps to hold ur men steady. i'm pretty sure when u strip the ball, its not 100% back. biceps definitely play a role, just like they do when u do thinks like rows. I'm not a huge fan of like curling 24/7, but i'm saying if ur done AFTER ur compound lifts and u have time to do auxiliary lifts, why not bicep curls? Also, when ur a defensive linemen, many defensive moves such as swimming, ripping, clubbing (ESP THIS ONE BECAUSE UR USE A LOT OF BICEPS HERE), and other moves involve a lot of biceps actually. even when the DL is pulling sum1 off him or bull rushing then swinging him off, that involves a lot of bicep use.

I play DL in college...sorry to say but while yes, the bicep does do some, it is mostly your back. The clubbing motion is your chest contracting, such the same motion as a DB fly. I played O-Line also in high school, when you pass block your bicep has nothing to do with you holding the man. If you were trying to pull him, then the bicep would have some effect, but when you are using your arms you are effectively trying to push him away from the QB, correct? Notice the word push. Your biceps play NO part in pass blocking bro, I play on the line and I've coached before I played in college so I do know what I'm talking about.

That said, no I don't think it's a horrible thing if someone does curls...gotta look good for the girls I guess :) I just personally feel that you get enough bicep work done off your chins, rows, etc.

About your DL point - :confused: what? Bull rush is rushing forward and basically pushing through the OL. That does not involve bicep use. Swimming is swinging your arm in a forward motion. That does not involve bicep use. Ripping is ripping your arm forward, that does not involve bicep use.

Trust me man, as you learn more and more about anatomy it will be easier and easier to see these movements.

xKKx7
05-30-2007, 08:48 PM
I play DL in college...sorry to say but while yes, the bicep does do some, it is mostly your back. The clubbing motion is your chest contracting, such the same motion as a DB fly. I played O-Line also in high school, when you pass block your bicep has nothing to do with you holding the man. If you were trying to pull him, then the bicep would have some effect, but when you are using your arms you are effectively trying to push him away from the QB, correct? Notice the word push. Your biceps play NO part in pass blocking bro, I play on the line and I've coached before I played in college so I do know what I'm talking about.

That said, no I don't think it's a horrible thing if someone does curls...gotta look good for the girls I guess :) I just personally feel that you get enough bicep work done off your chins, rows, etc.

About your DL point - :confused: what? Bull rush is rushing forward and basically pushing through the OL. That does not involve bicep use. Swimming is swinging your arm in a forward motion. That does not involve bicep use. Ripping is ripping your arm forward, that does not involve bicep use.

Trust me man, as you learn more and more about anatomy it will be easier and easier to see these movements.

but my point was that biceps aren't RIDICULOUS or anytihng. my point was that biceps do HELP. its not like theyre absolutely necessary or anything, but they DO HELP. w.e u play DL in college? thats pretty sick dude, what do u play DE?

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 08:50 PM
but my point was that biceps aren't RIDICULOUS or anytihng. my point was that biceps do HELP. its not like theyre absolutely necessary or anything, but they DO HELP. w.e u play DL in college? thats pretty sick dude, what do u play DE?

Nah, 3-technique tackle, though there has been talk of moving me to 1-technique noseguard if I don't get faster :eek: I like my 3-technique spot thank you very much :D

Metallicats826
05-30-2007, 09:17 PM
true doing curls arent football specific, they arent worthless. they are in every major movement such as extending the arms through a block on defense or latching on tight to a defender as you drive them into the ground. i'm for a strong everything, but they are definately supplementary lifts to your power lifts

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 09:19 PM
true doing curls arent football specific, they arent worthless. they are in every major movement such as extending the arms through a block on defense or latching on tight to a defender as you drive them into the ground. i'm for a strong everything, but they are definately supplementary lifts to your power lifts

I agree they aren't worthless, but one final thing...

BICEPS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU EXTENDING YOUR ARMS ON A PUSH MOVEMENT!!!!!

This has been said repeatedly, and it is basic kinesiology that arm extension have nothing to do with biceps...yet people keep coming in here claiming that it does...

WRbigbody
05-30-2007, 09:38 PM
I dont care what anybody says I am and still will do biceps even though I train primarily for football...

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 09:40 PM
I dont care what anybody says I am and still will do biceps even though I train primarily for football...

Not faulting you there at all man...I do biceps also...true, it might be the last thing I do on Friday at the end of the week for three sets, but I still do them :D I just wish some of these guys would take a basic anatomy class and realize that a pushing movement is triceps, a pull is biceps...I mean damn...anyway, how are your workouts going?

WRbigbody
05-30-2007, 09:51 PM
yea I know what your saying... only thing biceps I can say may help with in football is when you are out of position and need to basically pull the ball-carrier down from behind during a tackle and that is still mostly back....

908
05-30-2007, 10:16 PM
Biceps...help for blocking??? Come again? :confused: Explain how?

Any push movement activates your triceps as a secondary muscle...a WR stalk block involves you "punching" the man you're blocking, which is a push movement, so how does this work the bicep?

Same with a lineman blocking, their primary objective at our school at least is to punch the guy, under no cirumstances do they pull the guy down.

Any pull movement is what activates your bicep. Are you sure you didn't mean triceps in your original post?

No I meant biceps. Anybody that knows football well can tell you this. When you stalk block you don't go up to the CB and just keep pushing like an idiot unless the CB sucks because that will get you know where and looking like an idiot. The first thing you do when stalk blocking is jamming the CB with your arms which initially yes is a pushing movement incorporating triceps. But after you should get under the CBs shoulder pads and control his movements which forces you to use your biceps, you cannot however tug on the jersey because once the ref sees those numbers move you will see a flag. But you definitely don't go up to CB's trying to push and push cuz you have a halfway decent CB and they will get by that easy leaving the receiver look like an idiot. And for lineman its the same like i said even moreso than receivers because lineman can tell you how much they hold. When you hold something its a pull, not a push, you can't hold something you're pushing away.

PowerBuilder08
05-30-2007, 10:17 PM
No I meant biceps. Anybody that knows football well can tell you this. When you stalk block you don't go up to the CB and just keep pushing like an idiot unless the CB sucks because that will get you know where and looking like an idiot. The first thing you do when stalk blocking is jamming the CB with your arms which initially yes is a pushing movement incorporating triceps. But after you should get under the CBs shoulder pads and control his movements which forces you to use your biceps, you cannot however tug on the jersey because once the ref sees those numbers move you will see a flag. But you definitely don't go up to CB's trying to push and push cuz you have a halfway decent CB and they will get by that easy leaving the receiver look like an idiot. And for lineman its the same like i said even moreso than receivers because lineman can tell you how much they hold. When you hold something its a pull, not a push, you can't hold something you're pushing away.

Ok, my mistake, the way we teach stalk blocking in college is to wait for the DB to come to you and continue to jam him away...in college there's almost too much of a chance for holding being called if you try to keep hold on him on a stalk block. Most linemen, however, have to usually repeatedly hit or push away the defensive linemen, because most of the time we won't stand still and very, very, VERY rarely do they get a good grip on us.

sjr_1490
05-30-2007, 10:18 PM
yeah football coaches hate that...i just quit playing though i love bbing...and my coach hates watching me do it!
he was bitchin at me the other day is why i quit....
hes like you dont follow my weightlifting program..and he wants us doing 5x3 and 5x5's and im like **** that...hes a douche...so i quit...ill either not play or move schools...

haha, yeah, i play soccer, but the football coach always asks me to go out. he wants me to follow his "cookie cutter" workout, so i just lift on my own. but i was thinking about just going up into the weightroom during football lifting sessions, curling, then leave just to piss him off.

kevn594
05-31-2007, 02:14 AM
No I meant biceps. Anybody that knows football well can tell you this. When you stalk block you don't go up to the CB and just keep pushing like an idiot unless the CB sucks because that will get you know where and looking like an idiot. The first thing you do when stalk blocking is jamming the CB with your arms which initially yes is a pushing movement incorporating triceps. But after you should get under the CBs shoulder pads and control his movements which forces you to use your biceps, you cannot however tug on the jersey because once the ref sees those numbers move you will see a flag. But you definitely don't go up to CB's trying to push and push cuz you have a halfway decent CB and they will get by that easy leaving the receiver look like an idiot. And for lineman its the same like i said even moreso than receivers because lineman can tell you how much they hold. When you hold something its a pull, not a push, you can't hold something you're pushing away.

whoever taught you how to block is retarded then or you didnt go to your anatomy class. im a college offensive lineman and i dont use my biceps on the line. (i might do 5 sets of curls all week). my job is keep the DL off of me and locking him out. that has noooothing to do with my biceps and more of my chest and shoulders and maybe some tricep lockout. i can see you one could activate their bicep by doing any upper body exercise but biceps arent really used in blocking. THE END

trivium9
05-31-2007, 06:54 AM
In my area football coaches, high school level, are not up to par with weight training. They have an old school idea of what to do and they have been stuck with it for years and years. I have worked with some of the teams and its a shame at how poorly devised the programs are. Biceps are not an important muscle gorup for football but they serve their purpose.
Back work alone may not be suffice for some athletes.
You must work the biceps so there is not a huge strength imbalance

farzamk
05-31-2007, 09:52 AM
Personally adding a set of curls which would take up 2 minutes is not a waste of time...looking good ain't bad either and it's worth the 2 minutes.

LaxDude08
05-31-2007, 11:02 AM
It would be more practical to work your triceps instead of your biceps. You use your triceps a hell of a lot more in football than your biceps, and plus working out your triceps has more of an effect on how your arms look than your biceps. Tri - 3 muscles, Bi - Two muscles. There you win in both cases.

CBrown10
05-31-2007, 11:45 AM
Tell your coach your are only as strong as your weakest part

ahhh i finally find someone smart on this website

Ben76
05-31-2007, 12:24 PM
blocking is pretty much a leg workout, if you are pass blocking it also involves the lats and tri's a lot for your punch. Obviously you should do some work with them but doing 4-5 different curls with 20 sets wouldn't really help you.

bernbabybern820
05-31-2007, 12:31 PM
whoever taught you how to block is retarded then or you didnt go to your anatomy class. im a college offensive lineman and i dont use my biceps on the line. (i might do 5 sets of curls all week). my job is keep the DL off of me and locking him out. that has noooothing to do with my biceps and more of my chest and shoulders and maybe some tricep lockout. i can see you one could activate their bicep by doing any upper body exercise but biceps arent really used in blocking. THE END

Agreed. Your job as a reciever is to stay in front of the corner back jamming him until he either goes to the left or the right of you. Then you push him to that direction and it is the running back's job to go the other way so that the receiver is between the cb and the rb.

superfob
05-31-2007, 03:56 PM
Im not quite sure about this but have you noticed that alot of martial artist have small biceps?
Well I heard that martial artist dont work there biceps because its a contracting muscle and that it dosnt help with your " punch" at all.
Thats why those martial artist seem to have solid tris

Natetan
06-01-2007, 06:16 PM
As a lineman, let me throw my advice into it.

Bicepts mean nothing when blocking. For those who mentioned that bicepts help grip the opposite players shirt and shoulder pads, well thats just wrong.

If you (run) block correctly this is the order it 'should' be in.

Hips + Back, for the initial explosion/hit.
Legs + Hips + Back, for the drive.
FOREARMS (not bicepts) for the locking in and manuvering.

(Obviously calves, shoudlers etc are incoportated, but I was focusing on larger muscle groups)

WRbigbody
06-01-2007, 06:19 PM
As a lineman, let me throw my advice into it.

Bicepts mean nothing when blocking. For those who mentioned that bicepts help grip the opposite players shirt and shoulder pads, well thats just wrong.

If you (run) block correctly this is the order it 'should' be in.

Hips + Back, for the initial explosion/hit.
Legs + Hips + Back, for the drive.
FOREARMS (not bicepts) for the locking in and manuvering.

(Obviously calves, shoudlers etc are incoportated, but I was focusing on larger muscle groups)

I agree except for the forearms... triceps is what you use to lockout and control the defender...

Natetan
06-01-2007, 06:26 PM
I worded it wrong... Locking out fo course uses tricepts. But 75% of the time there is no lockout, unless your guy is alot smaller than you. I meant more of a close quarter head into chest and arms bent sort of position. Then grabbing jersey/shoulder pads is all about forearms. See what Im getting at?

labradarep
06-01-2007, 08:11 PM
Curls are essential for many reasons:
1) structural balance(Charles Poliquin philosophy)
2) injury prevention
3) decrease strength deficits

You need to have balance. Do some research & make up your own mind. Sounds like your coach is "mis-informed". Hard to argue with Poliquin. He is regarded as one of the best strength coaches in the world.

watchandsee23
06-01-2007, 08:41 PM
As a lineman, let me throw my advice into it.

Bicepts mean nothing when blocking. For those who mentioned that bicepts help grip the opposite players shirt and shoulder pads, well thats just wrong.

If you (run) block correctly this is the order it 'should' be in.

Hips + Back, for the initial explosion/hit.
Legs + Hips + Back, for the drive.
FOREARMS (not bicepts) for the locking in and manuvering.

(Obviously calves, shoudlers etc are incoportated, but I was focusing on larger muscle groups)
THERE IS NO "T" AT THE END IN "TRICEPS" OR "BICEPS"!!!!!!!!!

trivium9
06-01-2007, 09:08 PM
THERE IS NO "T" AT THE END IN "TRICEPS" OR "BICEPS"!!!!!!!!!

That pisses me off too.

PowerBuilder08
06-02-2007, 12:02 AM
Curls are essential for many reasons:
1) structural balance(Charles Poliquin philosophy)
2) injury prevention
3) decrease strength deficits

You need to have balance. Do some research & make up your own mind. Sounds like your coach is "mis-informed". Hard to argue with Poliquin. He is regarded as one of the best strength coaches in the world.

Hard to argue with Rippetoes too, which has the claim that you don't need to do isolation work, and if you do it's on friday for two sets at the end of the day.

andy51
06-02-2007, 12:16 AM
I dont think that anyone is say that you need to devote an entire day to bicep work, but it isnt going to hurt anything to be stronger. Additionally, many powerlifters are beginning to add additional bicep work to help prevent against torn biceps on deadlift.

Raidersfan15
06-02-2007, 12:44 PM
okay well how bout when a running back is holding onto the ball, he is squeezing it with his bicep, and his forearm, like a curl.

PowerBuilder08
06-02-2007, 12:52 PM
^^^^285 for 10 reps on squats weighing 143? Quarter squats don't count ;)

carl.c
06-02-2007, 04:15 PM
Acbrits08: i agree with you bicep work is a waste of time.The bicep does little work except for starting the elbow in flextion and rotation. However,You are wrong in saying that the biceps don't effect triceps. the biceps and triceps are antagonist muscles depending on witch movement the arm is going throuhg.
That said I agree with Rippetoe about curls they have little to no place in athletic training. I deveate from his philosophy though on arm work. I used the Zoterman curl in high school and found them to be the best thing for functional arm strength. The Supinator is the prime mover of the elbow and when it close quarters or trying to tackle with the arm fully extended it is extremly inportant.
I recommend them to all football players and they love them. It satisfies the the young mans need for beach muscle and addes functional strenght to the arm.
Caution should be used when first starting out. If you over doit like I did you will find out what muscle really flexes your arm. My arm would get stuck in flextion everytime I tried to pick-up my back pack.

trivium9
06-02-2007, 04:58 PM
One question

What about life after football? Do you want huge strength/hypertrophy imbalances?

carl.c
06-02-2007, 06:35 PM
trivium9: People who don't work biceps but poserlift usally have stronger arms then thoughts who work biceps. Ask most power lifters or athlets how much they curl and you will never worry about biceps getting strong.
As for hypertrophy; once you are done with athletics try working your biceps dirrectly. They will grow just fine , in no time you willhave a good set of beach muscle.
Better to worry about diet change once the athletic career is done.

Cheetah
06-02-2007, 10:25 PM
My football team does curls (big 21). We work everything.

xKKx7
06-02-2007, 11:18 PM
whoever taught you how to block is retarded then or you didnt go to your anatomy class. im a college offensive lineman and i dont use my biceps on the line. (i might do 5 sets of curls all week). my job is keep the DL off of me and locking him out. that has noooothing to do with my biceps and more of my chest and shoulders and maybe some tricep lockout. i can see you one could activate their bicep by doing any upper body exercise but biceps arent really used in blocking. THE END

he just said thats "stalk blocking"... not line blocking, its diff for wideouts bud.
but sometimes linemen do stalk blocking too on pass blocking. Instead of contiuously punching ur d-lineman, u can get under their pads and move towards you or away from u using ur biceps.

xKKx7
06-02-2007, 11:20 PM
I worded it wrong... Locking out fo course uses tricepts. But 75% of the time there is no lockout, unless your guy is alot smaller than you. I meant more of a close quarter head into chest and arms bent sort of position. Then grabbing jersey/shoulder pads is all about forearms. See what Im getting at?

EXACTLY. no linemen or anybody who is blocking is always going to get a perfect lockout of their arms. a lot of times u gotta try to get ur arms under their pads and they come toward u and they move and this often involves use of biceps. Just admit it, biceps aren't worthless. Yes, theyre beach muscles, but you should stlil do curls if u have time to at the end of ur workout.

Raidersfan15
06-02-2007, 11:38 PM
^^^^285 for 10 reps on squats weighing 143? Quarter squats don't count ;)

I know I don't do ATG but I do parallel. AND okay I might be stretching it by a bit, ;) I do 250

Lee.J.K
06-02-2007, 11:41 PM
that coach probably knows that if he allows curls, everyone will focus on them rather than the money exercies like squats and power cleans.

Exactly. Ideally you would work every muscle for any strength based sport, since there are net testosterone gains. Probably just knows people will abuse the privilege if they have it

PowerBuilder08
06-02-2007, 11:44 PM
he just said thats "stalk blocking"... not line blocking, its diff for wideouts bud.
but sometimes linemen do stalk blocking too on pass blocking. Instead of contiuously punching ur d-lineman, u can get under their pads and move towards you or away from u using ur biceps.


EXACTLY. no linemen or anybody who is blocking is always going to get a perfect lockout of their arms. a lot of times u gotta try to get ur arms under their pads and they come toward u and they move and this often involves use of biceps. Just admit it, biceps aren't worthless. Yes, theyre beach muscles, but you should stlil do curls if u have time to at the end of ur workout.

:confused: I can decipher all of your words and sentences, which puts you above delta, but at the same time, I cannot tell what in the blue hell you're talking about

trivium9
06-03-2007, 04:22 AM
trivium9: People who don't work biceps but poserlift usally have stronger arms then thoughts who work biceps. Ask most power lifters or athlets how much they curl and you will never worry about biceps getting strong.
As for hypertrophy; once you are done with athletics try working your biceps dirrectly. They will grow just fine , in no time you willhave a good set of beach muscle.
Better to worry about diet change once the athletic career is done.


Did you mean powerlift?

I train with alot of guys who compete for powerlifting. They don't have a bicep day but after dead and pull work they add a couple bicep exercises

WRbigbody
06-03-2007, 07:31 AM
okay well how bout when a running back is holding onto the ball, he is squeezing it with his bicep, and his forearm, like a curl.

when a skill position player has the ball tucked away, it is resting on the upper inside of his bicep and should be braced with the lower inside of his forearm.... the bicep is not gettin any work or getting any stronger from this... so no

bernbabybern820
06-04-2007, 12:25 PM
I know I don't do ATG but I do parallel. AND okay I might be stretching it by a bit, ;) I do 250

damn bro get the deadlifts up.

HoosierBoy
06-04-2007, 01:15 PM
Even if I wanted to do curls, I don't think I could find the time to do them in my schedule.

carl.c
06-04-2007, 01:39 PM
trivium: Thats nice, but a power lifter is not playing football and the ones at your gym are doing them at the end of their workout. Fact still remains that most power lifters have extremly strong biceps without direct work on them.
As you can read in my post there is nothing wrong with bicep work.
When creating a work out for athletes you have to deside what to leave out or do minumely. Biceps and tris get tons of work from other lifts so why target them. Remimber time in the gym is limited since the athlete must have time to practice and rest outside of the gym.
I choose the zotterman curl since it works the biceps but more inportantly it works the Brachioradialis and supinator.

Jsorb8997
06-04-2007, 04:05 PM
The coach is probably just trying to discourage overfocusing on insignificant iso exercises. Doesn't mean that you can never do curls though...if you want to do them, do them, just make sure you do all of the compound lifts as well.

payton34
06-04-2007, 04:11 PM
when a skill position player has the ball tucked away, it is resting on the upper inside of his bicep and should be braced with the lower inside of his forearm.... the bicep is not gettin any work or getting any stronger from this... so no

sorry the other dude is right, and im suprised it took 3 pages for someone to mention runningbacks

cbiedess
06-04-2007, 05:53 PM
we do hammer curls....more for the forearms than anything

superfob
06-04-2007, 09:10 PM
the hell with running backs...damn glory seekers

Blunt3
06-05-2007, 12:53 AM
Curls are onl for summer throw in my pull ups and rows.

Both put the Bicep in direct line of pull and im sure that 150 pound rows or 200 pound BW pull ups builds bigger strength than those 30-50 pound curls ?

and for looks. Your tricep is 66 % of you upper arm muscle mass so bigger arms aint defined by the bicep.

RaferAlston26
06-05-2007, 10:12 AM
Well, I would like to add my 2 cent. I see nothing wrong with bicep curls especially if it's on season. Generally, there are openings in ones schedule to allow for 1-2 isolation exercises. Hell, Chad Waterbury thinks the best exercises for biceps are chin ups but he has curls in his program. He thinks the best ab exercise is the squat but he says weighted ab work is great too. There's nothing wrong with a bicep curl. Some of you seem so outraged. It's only an extra few minutes. Majority of programs have bicep curls. Look at westside. There's the hammer curl or zottman curls. Mostly for the elbows but hits the biceps anyways. There's tricep extensions in it!! I mean there needs to be balanace. There is nothing wrong with bicep curls in a football players program. When there gets to the point where at the end of a workout theres bicep curl, tricep extension, seated calf raises, standing calf raises, and skull crushers.. then I see the problem but there isn't when there is this single bicep curl.

labradarep
06-05-2007, 04:22 PM
Once again Bicep work is essential. Your body has safety mechanisms that kick in if your strength ratios are out of whack( eg: bicep vs tricep) . You limit your strength in other lifts if you ignore antagonists & stabilizing muscles. You set yourself up for injuries also.

Do your homework & don't take what one person says as the gospel. The knowledge they are using may be outdated or incorrect.

Leenad
06-05-2007, 07:51 PM
Why not? As long as you don't replace other lifts with curling.. It's fine.

Raidersfan15
06-05-2007, 08:46 PM
damn bro get the deadlifts up.

I know I never do deads

RaferAlston26
06-05-2007, 08:56 PM
I know I never do deads

Shouldn't matter. There's no way you should have 100lbs between your squat and your dead. Either you're squatting wrong, you're deadlifting wrong, or you need to retest your deadlift.

anikey
06-05-2007, 11:43 PM
wtfff lol

I just expected a simple answer to this thread... didn't realize it was 4 pages long LOL!

Raidersfan15
06-06-2007, 09:02 PM
Shouldn't matter. There's no way you should have 100lbs between your squat and your dead. Either you're squatting wrong, you're deadlifting wrong, or you need to retest your deadlift.

I know, I think I will tomorrow, it's just that deadlifts are so uncomfortable. the bar can't get past my knees.

labradarep
06-07-2007, 09:56 AM
Curls are onl for summer throw in my pull ups and rows.

Both put the Bicep in direct line of pull and im sure that 150 pound rows or 200 pound BW pull ups builds bigger strength than those 30-50 pound curls ?

and for looks. Your tricep is 66 % of you upper arm muscle mass so bigger arms aint defined by the bicep.

You are correct that back work will stimulate your biceps.

If your biceps are the weak link in that chain you will never reach your potential in your back workouts.

carl.c
06-07-2007, 12:57 PM
labradarep: I think you need to take your own advice and reread what poliquin says about muscle balance.
Yes they exsist and must be adressed but once they are corrected the ahtlete needs not waste time correcting a problem that is fixed.
The first post did not say his arms are failing before failure of the target muscle group.\
It is awaste of time to do bicep work with an athlete that is not having trouble with it. Your time in th gym is to littel to waste on beach muscle with and athlete. Remimber attacting the ladies wiht arms and abs is a social thing. Not saying that its not inportant but getting date dos'nt inprove skill level on the feild.
I do'nt like using single exsamples of things but I think this will get my point across.
When iwas in high school I could dead lift 800lbs and squat 800lbs. Competive lift of dead 500lbs and bench 380lbs. are compitions where held in basketball gyms at that time so they would'nt allow me to lift more then 500lbs. do to possable damage to the floor.
I never did more then one or two setsof bicep work once a weak when the girls swim team was practicing or the cheer leaders came around.
On the football field no running back or quarter back ever broke my tackle. That includes the fames arm tackles.
Shold add that the squat may not have been leagl since we did'nt have a lifting coach and we relied on each other for recording max lifts.

warbird00
06-07-2007, 12:58 PM
A coach I know asks kids to run a mile if he catches them curling.. lol

Anyways, why is this discouraged? Is working biceps directly considered a sign of slacking off?

couple years ago read in SI about USC and they only are allowed to do curls last 10 mins of workout

warbird00
06-07-2007, 12:59 PM
Shouldn't matter. There's no way you should have 100lbs between your squat and your dead. Either you're squatting wrong, you're deadlifting wrong, or you need to retest your deadlift.

umm why shouldnt he have 100 lbs between them??
I have atleast 100 lbs, more like 150 lbs between mine

some ppl can DL like 1200, but probably barely/or cant squat 1000

HoosierBoy
06-07-2007, 12:59 PM
labradarep: I think you need to take your own advice and reread what poliquin says about muscle balance.
Yes they exsist and must be adressed but once they are corrected the ahtlete needs not waste time correcting a problem that is fixed.
The first post did not say his arms are failing before failure of the target muscle group.\
It is awaste of time to do bicep work with an athlete that is not having trouble with it. Your time in th gym is to littel to waste on beach muscle with and athlete. Remimber attacting the ladies wiht arms and abs is a social thing. Not saying that its not inportant but getting date dos'nt inprove skill level on the feild.
I do'nt like using single exsamples of things but I think this will get my point across.
When iwas in high school I could dead lift 800lbs and squat 800lbs. Competive lift of dead 500lbs and bench 380lbs. are compitions where held in basketball gyms at that time so they would'nt allow me to lift more then 500lbs. do to possable damage to the floor.
I never did more then one or two setsof bicep work once a weak when the girls swim team was practicing or the cheer leaders came around.
On the football field no running back or quarter back ever broke my tackle. That includes the fames arm tackles.

O'Rly?

PowerBuilder08
06-07-2007, 01:00 PM
umm why shouldnt he have 100 lbs between them??
I have atleast 100 lbs, more like 150 lbs between mine

some ppl can DL like 1200, but probably barely/or cant squat 1000

Yeah, but he squats 100 pounds more than he DL's, and only DL's like 135 pounds or something

labradarep
06-07-2007, 04:26 PM
labradarep: I think you need to take your own advice and reread what poliquin says about muscle balance.
Yes they exsist and must be adressed but once they are corrected the ahtlete needs not waste time correcting a problem that is fixed.
The first post did not say his arms are failing before failure of the target muscle group.\
It is awaste of time to do bicep work with an athlete that is not having trouble with it. Your time in th gym is to littel to waste on beach muscle with and athlete. Remimber attacting the ladies wiht arms and abs is a social thing. Not saying that its not inportant but getting date dos'nt inprove skill level on the feild.
I do'nt like using single exsamples of things but I think this will get my point across.
When iwas in high school I could dead lift 800lbs and squat 800lbs. Competive lift of dead 500lbs and bench 380lbs. are compitions where held in basketball gyms at that time so they would'nt allow me to lift more then 500lbs. do to possable damage to the floor.
I never did more then one or two setsof bicep work once a weak when the girls swim team was practicing or the cheer leaders came around.
On the football field no running back or quarter back ever broke my tackle. That includes the fames arm tackles.
Shold add that the squat may not have been leagl since we did'nt have a lifting coach and we relied on each other for recording max lifts.

I completely agree with the first part of your reply. You are correct , once the strength deficit has been closed it is a waste of time to train that muscle . Maintainance is needed though.

I should have clarified ,what you explained , in my post.

pphilly51
06-07-2007, 04:37 PM
umm, I don't think they're absolutely worthless. If you are tackling you are using your back and biceps plus all the little muscles in the forearms to hold on to the guy.


But I'm not saying you should focus on them.

You dont hold onto the guy.....You Run THROUGH the GUY with legs and back anyone can wrap there arms around someone else but its how hard you use core muscles not arms.

bernbabybern820
06-07-2007, 04:51 PM
umm why shouldnt he have 100 lbs between them??
I have atleast 100 lbs, more like 150 lbs between mine

some ppl can DL like 1200, but probably barely/or cant squat 1000

?? DLs are the same as squats except that you can use more of your back so there should be no reason that your squat is twice as strong as your deadlift.

Raidersfan15
06-07-2007, 06:10 PM
You dont hold onto the guy.....You Run THROUGH the GUY with legs and back anyone can wrap there arms around someone else but its how hard you use core muscles not arms.

lol I know that but your still supposed to hold onto someone. I mean like say your a db versus a fullback, how are you supposed to just run him over with a tackle?

PowerBuilder08
06-07-2007, 06:11 PM
lol I know that but your still supposed to hold onto someone. I mean like say your a db versus a fullback, how are you supposed to just run him over with a tackle?

You're supposed to damn well try. What else are ya supposed to do bro?

gekkoboy14
06-07-2007, 06:12 PM
I always used to curl in the squat rack.

PowerBuilder08
06-07-2007, 06:12 PM
I always used to curl in the squat rack.

If you were within reach I'd slap you right now :D

Leenad
06-07-2007, 07:07 PM
If you were within reach I'd slap you right now :D
x2

watchandsee23
06-07-2007, 09:02 PM
If you were within reach I'd slap you right now :D
I actually LOL.

Patches39
06-08-2007, 07:58 AM
our school has a routine we do that is open to everyone but is mainyl aimed toward football. we go monday-thursday, and on fridays, most kids come in and we just do all bis and tris. were completly done with out program, but we can still get the very very slight advantage of strong biceps, and we can look good. :{)

RaferAlston26
06-08-2007, 08:36 AM
umm why shouldnt he have 100 lbs between them??
I have atleast 100 lbs, more like 150 lbs between mine

some ppl can DL like 1200, but probably barely/or cant squat 1000

It's because a deadlift is an advantaged squat basically. You shouldn't be able to squat 100lbs more then you can dead lift. Unless you're short and have small hands, there's no excuse.

From Kethnaab (well respected and intelligent person):
Question - I squat way more than I deadlift, what gives?

Normally proportionated people with balanced development will always deadlift more than they squat.

ALWAYS.

If you squat more than you deadlift, then 99% of the time, the answer to this lies in one of the following:

1) You aren't squatting deep enough
2) You aren't squatting deep enough
3) You aren't squatting deep enough
4) You aren't squatting deep enough
5) You aren't squatting deep enough

If think you are squatting deep enough, then chances are good that one of the following solves the mystery:

6) You aren't squatting deep enough, no matter what you say (post Videos?)
7) You need chalk
8) You hate deadlifting because you're a wussy
9) You hate deadlifting for some other reason, but you're probably a wussy
10) Your grip sucks

Yes, I'm being funny. However, it is biomechanically impossible for an injury-free individual of balanced development to squat more than they deadlift without excessive lifting equipment assistance.

PERIOD.

If you really do squat more than you deadlift, and you honestly have trained both with equal intensity and effort, then I'd drop an entire paycheck that you simply haven't evaluated yourself honestly.

If you have posted a video of your squats, you own chalk, your grip is strong, and you like deadlifting, but you still squat more than you deadlift, it is probably one of the following:

11) You have very small hands
12) You have insanely stumpy arms

#11 is common in very short, stocky women. Short = small hands, stocky = short fingers.

Guys? I don't want to hear your excuses, unless you have injuries. Just admit you're being a puss with the deadlifts and move on.


(This is me saying this): Anyways, professionals only squat more then they dead lift because of equipment. Naturally, people should be able to dead lift more then they can squat.

HoosierBoy
06-08-2007, 10:30 AM
It's because a deadlift is an advantaged squat basically. You shouldn't be able to squat 100lbs more then you can dead lift. Unless you're short and have small hands, there's no excuse.

From Kethnaab (well respected and intelligent person):
Question - I squat way more than I deadlift, what gives?

Normally proportionated people with balanced development will always deadlift more than they squat.

ALWAYS.

If you squat more than you deadlift, then 99% of the time, the answer to this lies in one of the following:

1) You aren't squatting deep enough
2) You aren't squatting deep enough
3) You aren't squatting deep enough
4) You aren't squatting deep enough
5) You aren't squatting deep enough

If think you are squatting deep enough, then chances are good that one of the following solves the mystery:

6) You aren't squatting deep enough, no matter what you say (post Videos?)
7) You need chalk
8) You hate deadlifting because you're a wussy
9) You hate deadlifting for some other reason, but you're probably a wussy
10) Your grip sucks

Yes, I'm being funny. However, it is biomechanically impossible for an injury-free individual of balanced development to squat more than they deadlift without excessive lifting equipment assistance.

PERIOD.

If you really do squat more than you deadlift, and you honestly have trained both with equal intensity and effort, then I'd drop an entire paycheck that you simply haven't evaluated yourself honestly.

If you have posted a video of your squats, you own chalk, your grip is strong, and you like deadlifting, but you still squat more than you deadlift, it is probably one of the following:

11) You have very small hands
12) You have insanely stumpy arms

#11 is common in very short, stocky women. Short = small hands, stocky = short fingers.

Guys? I don't want to hear your excuses, unless you have injuries. Just admit you're being a puss with the deadlifts and move on.


(This is me saying this): Anyways, professionals only squat more then they dead lift because of equipment. Naturally, people should be able to dead lift more then they can squat.

Unless you don't do deadlifts. Personally I have found them to be totally non-essential.

RaferAlston26
06-08-2007, 10:38 AM
Why are they totally non-essential?

ThrillHouse43
06-08-2007, 10:39 AM
It's because a deadlift is an advantaged squat basically. You shouldn't be able to squat 100lbs more then you can dead lift. Unless you're short and have small hands, there's no excuse.

From Kethnaab (well respected and intelligent person):
Question - I squat way more than I deadlift, what gives?

Normally proportionated people with balanced development will always deadlift more than they squat.

ALWAYS.

If you squat more than you deadlift, then 99% of the time, the answer to this lies in one of the following:

1) You aren't squatting deep enough
2) You aren't squatting deep enough
3) You aren't squatting deep enough
4) You aren't squatting deep enough
5) You aren't squatting deep enough

If think you are squatting deep enough, then chances are good that one of the following solves the mystery:

6) You aren't squatting deep enough, no matter what you say (post Videos?)
7) You need chalk
8) You hate deadlifting because you're a wussy
9) You hate deadlifting for some other reason, but you're probably a wussy
10) Your grip sucks

Yes, I'm being funny. However, it is biomechanically impossible for an injury-free individual of balanced development to squat more than they deadlift without excessive lifting equipment assistance.

PERIOD.

If you really do squat more than you deadlift, and you honestly have trained both with equal intensity and effort, then I'd drop an entire paycheck that you simply haven't evaluated yourself honestly.

If you have posted a video of your squats, you own chalk, your grip is strong, and you like deadlifting, but you still squat more than you deadlift, it is probably one of the following:

11) You have very small hands
12) You have insanely stumpy arms

#11 is common in very short, stocky women. Short = small hands, stocky = short fingers.

Guys? I don't want to hear your excuses, unless you have injuries. Just admit you're being a puss with the deadlifts and move on.


(This is me saying this): Anyways, professionals only squat more then they dead lift because of equipment. Naturally, people should be able to dead lift more then they can squat.

WOW!!! That's funny because it's true.

As for the TC, football players that curl in season are one of a few things:
1. Arrogant WRs
2. No good at football and just want to look like a pimp wearing the jersey on friday nights
3. Strokes
4. Douchebags
5. Losers

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_lr76Rj0etc

trueathlete
06-08-2007, 10:55 AM
Curling is ok to do as a football player. As long as you keep the reps high..

nwmrkt
06-08-2007, 03:55 PM
yeah football coaches hate that...i just quit playing though i love bbing...and my coach hates watching me do it!
he was bitchin at me the other day is why i quit....
hes like you dont follow my weightlifting program..and he wants us doing 5x3 and 5x5's and im like **** that...hes a douche...so i quit...ill either not play or move schools...

you shouldve lisnted to him....

carl.c
06-09-2007, 03:15 PM
labradarep: No problem. Hoosierboy: I think you found your way to the wrong forum. This is for athletes not bodybuilders. To come here and say deadlifting is uninportant is to show your ignorance of how the body works in motion.

watchandsee23
06-09-2007, 09:31 PM
I personally have never maxed out on DL and have never done them consistently because I think there are ways to hit the same muscles and gethe same results through, box squats, squats, lunges, deep bulgarian split squats, GHR's, Rev. hypers., pull throughs. If you squat deep enough and squat alot your posterior chain will still be strong. I've squatted 405, and I know I can't DL more then 380....My grip does suck and I've never used chalk so IDK how much I could do if I did them consistently.

RaferAlston26
06-09-2007, 11:19 PM
Well, the con about dead lift as any other really great movement is the technicality in the movement. It can go wrong very fast and in so many ways. Even then the dead lift is great. The dead lift is a upper exercise, lower exercise, posterior chain exercise, core exercise, grip exercise, etc. It works everything out so well especially if you train it well you can move a lot of weight. It's an underrated lift in the sports world. Squats and benches are the center of the universe majority of the time. RDL's get a lot of love though but dead lift, squat, and bench are three essential exercise in my opinion. I do not have dead lifting now but when I have to cycle my ME lower day.. traditional dead lift. But to each their own. Do I think athletes should neglect dead lifting? No. But I don't think a RDL is a good enough dead lift variation. A traditional one can do wonders. Haven't done it in a while? Try using it for a while. Benefits will be great.

ThrillHouse43
06-10-2007, 11:33 AM
I personally have never maxed out on DL and have never done them consistently because I think there are ways to hit the same muscles and gethe same results through, box squats, squats, lunges, deep bulgarian split squats, GHR's, Rev. hypers., pull throughs. If you squat deep enough and squat alot your posterior chain will still be strong. I've squatted 405, and I know I can't DL more then 380....My grip does suck and I've never used chalk so IDK how much I could do if I did them consistently.

Well you do all that and I'll deadlift, do the rest of my workout, eat, and shower, and maybe you'll be done by then and we can hang out.

pphilly51
06-10-2007, 07:58 PM
lol I know that but your still supposed to hold onto someone. I mean like say your a db versus a fullback, how are you supposed to just run him over with a tackle?

If you cant then you try hopefully holding him up until a linebacker finishes him, or you cut him in half.

watchandsee23
06-10-2007, 11:14 PM
Well you do all that and I'll deadlift, do the rest of my workout, eat, and shower, and maybe you'll be done by then and we can hang out.
why was that not funny to me?

PowerBuilder08
06-10-2007, 11:15 PM
why was that not funny to me?

x2...

HoosierBoy
06-11-2007, 06:44 AM
labradarep: No problem. Hoosierboy: I think you found your way to the wrong forum. This is for athletes not bodybuilders. To come here and say deadlifting is uninportant is to show your ignorance of how the body works in motion.

Bull****. It's a great lift but far from necessary. Cleans and posterior chain work are a more than adequate substitute for deadlifts.

And I guess my ignorance must be on par with a lot of S+C coaches in America, because there are hundreds of football programs that don't deadlift.

ThrillHouse43
06-11-2007, 08:42 AM
why was that not funny to me?


I actually don't have an explanation for that one. Different strokes for different folks.

Ben76
06-11-2007, 09:13 AM
Bull****. It's a great lift but far from necessary. Cleans and posterior chain work are a more than adequate substitute for deadlifts.

And I guess my ignorance must be on par with a lot of S+C coaches in America, because there are hundreds of football programs that don't deadlift.

The U doesn't deadlift.

borat9988
06-11-2007, 03:15 PM
The coach has a point.

Bicep muscles will do very little to help you in actual games, but muscles are muscles and the more you have the better.

All the big college players and pro players have huge biceps, but they are just for show.

carl.c
06-13-2007, 11:22 AM
Hooiserboy: Thanks for pointing out that many people pose as strength coaches,yet know little about it.
Yes,its true there are many diffrent ways to train everymuscle in the body, some are just better then others.
If you make a list of single excercises that hit the whole body the deadlift would be in te top two.
Why waste time doing multipule moves to hit a mucsle gruop when you can do one?
I choose the deadlift as a pillar of athletic power. The reason for this is the deadlift is a relitivly easy lift to learn when compared to the clean or the clean and jerk. The deadlift gives the athlete the ability to move heavy weights in a short time. This transfers to the feild as whole body conditioning for taking and delivering blows. Secondary effect is boosting the ego.
A lot like strongman training helps the ego and confidance.
The deadlift is a safer lift then the clean and can be done with out a special platform or weights.
i would be interested in you posting soem sight where S+C trainers have workouts that don't include deadlifts?

HoosierBoy
06-13-2007, 11:46 AM
http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/pdfs/training_manual010703.pdf

For starters. I'll scan some of the other NFL manuals I have that don't include deadlifts.

But since you know 100x more than any NFL strength coach, I guess you wouldn't be interested.

sprasad03
06-13-2007, 12:36 PM
actually we have bicep implemented into our program but its trained once a week for isolation like it will be at the end of the workout and its 2 sets of any iso of 10 reps. but the thing is i look at the program there is alot of other **** that has biceps in it like pull ups chinups, pull downs, yes compound but still u workin them biceps. i play in college d1-aa

watchandsee23
06-13-2007, 01:03 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/pdfs/training_manual010703.pdf

For starters. I'll scan some of the other NFL manuals I have that don't include deadlifts.

But since you know 100x more than any NFL strength coach, I guess you wouldn't be interested.
Oh but you don't know that NFL teams try to just prevent injuries instead of trying to make them stronger be ause most of them have reached their potential in the weight room and trying to get them stronger would be pointless.

WRbigbody
06-13-2007, 01:09 PM
Oh but you don't know that NFL teams try to just prevent injuries instead of trying to make them stronger be ause most of them have reached their potential in the weight room and trying to get them stronger would be pointless.


truth, NFL players really dont even lift all the much for strength.... mainly just core lifts, and they work on leg work, core work, agilities (which they are cautious of) and flexibility work.... the point is to keep them from getting injured so an NFL workout is probably for the most part a simple walk-through with light weights...

carl.c
06-13-2007, 01:45 PM
I do'nt understand the link you put up. It is a good training manual for a freshman player but it dos'nt include much on weight lifting.
I did down load it so can read the running rutines more.
I sujest you reread the lifting part since the coach clearly says "this is a sample of" he do'snt address anything but begining lifting. I get the feeling from reading the manual it is for incoming freshmen not a mid to advanced lifter.
And, yes, you are right I don't agree with the lifting theory he lays out.(pg50-55).
By limiting leg lifts to 12 reps per set and no less is down right a waste of time.
I tried to link to the univercity sight to see if they had a more indepth post but I was unable to find any. If one exsists please post the link here I would be interested to see if they move to more power lifting wiht advanced lifters.
To address your last commint, Yes, i have a stubran opinion on how lifting should be done and what lifts are a must, but that dos'nt mean I can't absorbe others idears and learn from them.

josh 7am
06-13-2007, 04:37 PM
A coach I know asks kids to run a mile if he catches them curling.. lol

Anyways, why is this discouraged? Is working biceps directly considered a sign of slacking off?

"'Our athletes train their biceps.' I know it's a badge of honor for strength coaches to say that they don't allow their athletes to perform biceps exercises, but I had to confess. Granted, biceps are NOT a focus in our program, but we do train them. I'm a big believer in the mental aspect of training. And for some reason, athletes of all levels love walking out of the gym with a biceps pump. I have no problem throwing in some biceps curls at the end of an upper body workout if it boosts my athlete's confidence"

Joe DeFranco

kensterz
06-13-2007, 04:40 PM
Maybe a limit to the amount you work on your biceps, but not cutting it off completely. They'll probably be worked out anyway with certain exercises when you work out your back.

HoosierBoy
06-14-2007, 07:09 AM
Oh but you don't know that NFL teams try to just prevent injuries instead of trying to make them stronger be ause most of them have reached their potential in the weight room and trying to get them stronger would be pointless.

Then why (as someone pointed out above) does U of Miami's program not include deadlifts (trying to find the link now)?

Ben76
06-14-2007, 09:06 AM
Then why (as someone pointed out above) does U of Miami's program not include deadlifts (trying to find the link now)?

http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/weight-training.html

there

I wouldn't argue this programs effectiveness for training for football. Deadlifts are great and you could argue a close to neccessity to bodybuilding but if you play football there are other priorities.

RaferAlston26
06-14-2007, 09:10 AM
Then why (as someone pointed out above) does U of Miami's program not include deadlifts (trying to find the link now)?

The reason I think most coaches do not implement the deadlift is because it works out the body too much. Like the Miami workout. It's high volume. There is no room for something like the dead lift. It equally beats up the upper and lower body and he doesn't have room for that. Now, a dead lift is still a necessary exercise at the beginning of most players careers. In highschool it's the perfect time to build up strong and dead lift is the perfect exercise to help you do that along with benching and squatting. Those are the big 3 for a reason.

Anyways, you don't want the dead lift don't use it. The U of Miami program is high volume. There is no room for a dead lift. He chose to take that approach and that's fine. Dead lifting isn't for everyone but that's the reason why some of us are saying it's a neglected exercise.

Ben76
06-14-2007, 09:19 AM
The reason I think most coaches do not implement the deadlift is because it works out the body too much. Like the Miami workout. It's high volume. There is no room for something like the dead lift. It equally beats up the upper and lower body and he doesn't have room for that. Now, a dead lift is still a necessary exercise at the beginning of most players careers. In highschool it's the perfect time to build up strong and dead lift is the perfect exercise to help you do that along with benching and squatting. Those are the big 3 for a reason.

Anyways, you don't want the dead lift don't use it. The U of Miami program is high volume. There is no room for a dead lift. He chose to take that approach and that's fine. Dead lifting isn't for everyone but that's the reason why some of us are saying it's a neglected exercise.

If the deadlift was really the most important lift they'd cut out the volume and put it in. As far as football goes I'd say olympic lifts are far superior.

ThrillHouse43
06-14-2007, 09:27 AM
http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/pdfs/training_manual010703.pdf


The Houston Texans? With their track record maybe they should consider deadlifts.

Ben76
06-14-2007, 09:33 AM
The Houston Texans? With their track record maybe they should consider deadlifts.

Yeah I'm sure you are stronger and more agile than all of them combined. Moron.

watchandsee23
06-14-2007, 11:29 AM
there is a variation of it in the R.D.L....

carl.c
06-14-2007, 12:10 PM
Hoosierboy: I would'nt add a dead lift into that rutine eather. Look at allof the other power lifts that are in it. By the way before you say there are no deadlifts in the routine what is a R.D.L ??

sprasad03
06-14-2007, 12:37 PM
If the deadlift was really the most important lift they'd cut out the volume and put it in. As far as football goes I'd say olympic lifts are far superior.

exactly, thats what are strength coach makes us do, all olympic lifts, the reason being, its all power, like snatches, cleans, etc, its all developing power to swing that weight up to use ur whole body.

HoosierBoy
06-14-2007, 01:26 PM
Hoosierboy: I would'nt add a dead lift into that rutine eather. Look at allof the other power lifts that are in it. By the way before you say there are no deadlifts in the routine what is a R.D.L ??

OK, you really aren't trying to say that's the same as a deadlift, are you?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa63.htm : "The RDL isn't a true deadlift, and its origins are not Romanian (American lifters saw a World Champion weightlifter from Romania performing this exercise back in the '50's and dubbed it the "Romanian Deadlift"). The term RDL proved to be a catchy name, and has stuck with this exercise throughout the years."

DangerDan
06-14-2007, 03:34 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/fitness/pdfs/training_manual010703.pdf

For starters. I'll scan some of the other NFL manuals I have that don't include deadlifts.

But since you know 100x more than any NFL strength coach, I guess you wouldn't be interested.

according to him you shouldn't do plyometrics.

How do y'all feel about that?

DangerDan
06-14-2007, 03:53 PM
its all developing power to swing that weight up to use ur whole body.

You should not be "swinging" the weight up at any time during an Olympic lift.

HoosierBoy
06-15-2007, 08:17 AM
according to him you shouldn't do plyometrics.

How do y'all feel about that?

It says you shouldn't do them if you can't do them year-round.