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Smokes
05-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Over the summer I was looking to train for rugby. I am going to try and make the University of Washington rugby club team (so no it's not like a D-1 sport) but its still a very competitive team. After talking to a buddy who plays scrum half, he said I should try and work towards playing Wing. I know I have to put on more lean mass to make myself more of a threat, as I am 5'11" and weigh 140, I hope to get to at the very least 160. I know how to work on speed as I have been a runner for many years now. But I look to you guys for advice on anything else I should be working on or incoporate into my training. Thanks guys.

Veeshmack
05-28-2007, 07:26 PM
like you said, get some mass, and get as fast as possible. do lots of HIIT. thats just how the game works, doing that will be good for getting a better speed endurance, and work to getting light on your feet to juke the crap outa people, do ladders and dot drills

Benji Snap
05-28-2007, 07:48 PM
I think ladders and them agility stepper things are overrated.

They have never done anything for me.

Smokes
05-29-2007, 01:27 AM
like you said, get some mass, and get as fast as possible. do lots of HIIT.

Please excuse the ignorance, but what does HIIT stand for? Im ot familiar with the term. But thanks for the rest of the advise which I understood. Repped.

ThinkBig05
05-29-2007, 01:59 AM
its high intensity interval training, so somthing like sprint 100m jog 100 sprint 100 jog 100 etc...

koda86
05-29-2007, 02:19 AM
Hi guys,

I am playing rugby as well, I am a back row. That is what I am doing for the summer: I am actually on Rippetoe to gain some strength (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday I know it is 2 days in a riw but can t do better) and explosivity. On my days off, I do HIIT on Monday, Touch rugby for fun on Wednesday and then Swimming on Sunday to relax.

With Rippetoe I have really increased my strength but it is compulsory to do some good cardio outside this program otherwise I would be useless on the pitch!!!!! I will go on until September and then I will switch for a season program with more explosive exercise (snatch, high pull, power clean, explosive shrugs......)

I don t know a lot about programming but i would say that for rugby your workout must be really between 5 and 8 reps for each exercise, not more because what you want its power, exploisivity, strength!! Maybe I am wrong but since 2 years I am doing gym like this, I put much more big hits than I received and I am quite small for a back row. (5.9 ft 200lbs).

Veeshmack
05-29-2007, 06:06 AM
Please excuse the ignorance, but what does HIIT stand for? Im ot familiar with the term. But thanks for the rest of the advise which I understood. Repped.

hiit is high intensity interval training
its like sprint all out for 30 seconds, job jog for 30 or 45, sprint again
basically run as if you are following the pace of the game

hooker
05-29-2007, 06:37 AM
I happen to train a collegiate rugby team who was ranked as high as 12th in the country (last fall).

For a good training routine, look into Joe DeFranco's modified Westside Template, and work on your sprints....for the latter, my standard advice is to keep sprint work to 50m or less per rep, and never do more than 500m in a given workout. Do your cardio when you do your cardio, not when you lift or sprint.

Most importantly, be able to catch the F-ing ball. Nothing is worse than a wing who is unmarked and drops the pass.

rugbyman12
05-29-2007, 06:40 AM
Hi guys,

I am playing rugby as well, I am a back row. That is what I am doing for the summer: I am actually on Rippetoe to gain some strength (Tuesday, Thursday, Friday I know it is 2 days in a riw but can t do better) and explosivity. On my days off, I do HIIT on Monday, Touch rugby for fun on Wednesday and then Swimming on Sunday to relax.

With Rippetoe I have really increased my strength but it is compulsory to do some good cardio outside this program otherwise I would be useless on the pitch!!!!! I will go on until September and then I will switch for a season program with more explosive exercise (snatch, high pull, power clean, explosive shrugs......)

I don t know a lot about programming but i would say that for rugby your workout must be really between 5 and 8 reps for each exercise, not more because what you want its power, exploisivity, strength!! Maybe I am wrong but since 2 years I am doing gym like this, I put much more big hits than I received and I am quite small for a back row. (5.9 ft 200lbs).

Get those explosive lifts in now!!! Train them before the season so you have the explosivity (not a word!) from the start of the season.

The explosive lifts are fundamental to rugby training!

Veeshmack
05-29-2007, 06:45 AM
Get those explosive lifts in now!!! Train them before the season so you have the explosivity (not a word!) from the start of the season.

The explosive lifts are fundamental to rugby training!
agrreed
hit the cleans and snatches hard along with push press and squats
core strength is always a huge help

koda86
05-29-2007, 06:46 AM
I am currently doing some explosive lifts like Jump squat on Rippetoe on my thursday,power clean and as well explosive deadlift when i have twice deadlift a week (one heavy one explosive)! I am also training on snatch just to perform them well!

I prefer work strength for the moment and then switch but you re right I will probably switch to explosive stuff one month before the season!

Can you put what you re doing exactly as workouts, guys??


Cheers!

rugbyman12
05-29-2007, 08:34 AM
Mix your strength training with explosive training.

Currently i am following the rippetoe outline.

Monday

Wide stance back Squat 3*5 max effort
Bench 3*5 max effort
Power clean 5*3 max effort

Wednesday

Front squat 3*5 max effort
Military press 3*5 max effort
Deadlift 1*5 max effort

Friday

Squat 3*5 max effort
Bench 3*5 max effort
Clean and jerk 5*3 max effort
Wide grip pull ups - just to finish, sets to failure

The next week swap so i have bench once and military press twice, on the days where i would have military press and clean and jerk in same workout i reduce weight on military press and use higher reps.

Everyday and after workout i follow a stretching routine. And then during the week incorporate some strongman training.

koda86
05-29-2007, 08:51 AM
Sounds really good mate! I am trying as I said to mix strength and explosivity! Best solution for rugby

Veeshmack
05-29-2007, 12:04 PM
Mix your strength training with explosive training.

Currently i am following the rippetoe outline.

Monday

Wide stance back Squat 3*5 max effort
Bench 3*5 max effort
Power clean 5*3 max effort

Wednesday

Front squat 3*5 max effort
Military press 3*5 max effort
Deadlift 1*5 max effort

Friday

Squat 3*5 max effort
Bench 3*5 max effort
Clean and jerk 5*3 max effort
Wide grip pull ups - just to finish, sets to failure

The next week swap so i have bench once and military press twice, on the days where i would have military press and clean and jerk in same workout i reduce weight on military press and use higher reps.

Everyday and after workout i follow a stretching routine. And then during the week incorporate some strongman training.
i would also suggest doing higher reps now and then
rugby is an endurance sport, so its a good thing to train your muscular endurance by doing reps 8-12 every now and then

Frodo14
05-30-2007, 08:04 AM
definitely learn how to kick and pass to a high standard. Who says you always have to bosh people over? chipping the ball ahead usually works a lot better!

In my opinion, size for a winger is only really needed in defense!

koda86
05-30-2007, 08:44 AM
I agree totally that you have to work endurance as well. I spoke about my case on Rippetoe because I am a back row and I need to be stronger so I worked on Rippetoe but definitely you must work as well endurance. I would say that you can organize your workout to mix both strength and endurance!!

Usually I would keep the endurance for the explosive stuff like snatch, power clean, jump squat, explosive deadlift and keep strength for normal squat, romanian deadlift, bench press and shoulder press.

What do you think????

Snowman723
05-30-2007, 10:01 AM
Sprint train, sprint train and sprint train. Scoring opportunities are sometimes few and far between and therefore any slight chance needs to be scored. Being faster than your opposite winger is such a huge advantage and a vast mental advantage for any team.

Try to gain some more mass but if it starts to hinder you speed then stop. And someone said it already but ball control is essential for any player, especially the backs.

Get working on your kicking too, chipping the ball over the defense is a good tactic to use when sprinting up the wing, you can use the grubber kick in the same way to get past defenders.

You also need to be able to punt, sometimes you may be called back to help the Fullback cover the kick, and you need to be able to clear it if you are inside your own 22

Veeshmack
05-30-2007, 12:06 PM
Usually I would keep the endurance for the explosive stuff like snatch, power clean, jump squat, explosive deadlift and keep strength for normal squat, romanian deadlift, bench press and shoulder press.

What do you think????

i would still think you should hit the endurance training on all lifts
definately on the explosives, but its jsut as important to train the endurance on the squats and deadlifts

rugbyman12
05-30-2007, 05:41 PM
i would also suggest doing higher reps now and then
rugby is an endurance sport, so its a good thing to train your muscular endurance by doing reps 8-12 every now and then

Yeah rather than high reps in the weight room, after all our training sessions we do circuits, these really boost your fitness and kick your ass after a hard session

koda86
05-31-2007, 02:23 AM
Thanks for your comments all! Definitely I agree with snowman 723, sprints are the most important stuff for all the positions. I am not a winger, I am a back row but obviously handling is really important as well.


As Veeshmack said, endurance is important but I really think especially for a forward that strength is essential. Endurance is normally worked during the rugby trainings, at the gym I focus on explosivity and strength! It depends on what people want to focus on.


Does anyone know a website or has a program from rugby professionals???

scott_donald
05-31-2007, 04:10 AM
Thanks for your comments all! Definitely I agree with snowman 723, sprints are the most important stuff for all the positions. I am not a winger, I am a back row but obviously handling is really important as well.


As Veeshmack said, endurance is important but I really think especially for a forward that strength is essential. Endurance is normally worked during the rugby trainings, at the gym I focus on explosivity and strength! It depends on what people want to focus on.


Does anyone know a website or has a program from rugby professionals???

YOU WILL BE SURPRISED HOW PANTS THE ROUTINES FROM PROFESSIONAL... dam caps lock... teams are especially in scotand...

i have sometwhere good stuff from new zealand but essentially its the same as footballl but with speed endurance for the sprint work as well as speed itself...

koda86
05-31-2007, 04:34 AM
Really?? It is funny because some guys are really massive especially in Scotland. Do yu think you can post your stuff from NZ in this thread? That would be great for some guys cause every 10 days people are asking if there are programs for rugby.


Cheers

scott_donald
05-31-2007, 04:43 AM
Really?? It is funny because some guys are really massive especially in Scotland. Do yu think you can post your stuff from NZ in this thread? That would be great for some guys cause every 10 days people are asking if there are programs for rugby.


Cheers

ye all bb routines... i have alot of friends that play pro rugby... they are all massive but lack alot of strength...

got it from this thread...
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1583229

www.getstrength.com/articles.asp

here was not impressed with the replies from t nation...

koda86
05-31-2007, 05:19 AM
Totally agree with that Scott. I don t know if you see this big n 8 from South Africa but 1m97 118Kg he got smashed everytime. That is why I think strength and explosivity are the best to work especially for forwards!!

So do yu take all your workouts from this website, Scott??
www.getstrength.com/articles.asp


Thanks

ElWilson
05-31-2007, 08:13 AM
Here's the one which I, and the Welsh Rugby Academy will be on pre season.

Week 1-4 (4sets, 10-12 reps)

Monday
Squat
Bench press
Bent over row
Standing shoulder press

Weds
Clean pulls (20x2)
Rom deadlift
Upright row
Hamtring curls

Fri
Squat
Bench
Bent row
Standing press

Week 5-8 (4sets, 5 reps)

Mon
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Weds
Clean pull
Rom Deadlift
Push press
Hamstring curls

Fri
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Week 9-12 (4 sets, 3 reps)

Mon
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Weds
Clean pull
Rom Deadlift
Push press
Hamstring curls

Fri
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Week 1-4 = Hypertrophy (90secs recovery)
Week 5-8 = Strength (3min recovery)
Week 9-12 = Power (3-5min recovery)

koda86
05-31-2007, 08:23 AM
thanks for your post mate!

scott_donald
05-31-2007, 10:07 AM
Here's the one which I, and the Welsh Rugby Academy will be on pre season.

Week 1-4 (4sets, 10-12 reps)

Monday
Squat
Bench press
Bent over row
Standing shoulder press

Weds
Clean pulls (20x2)
Rom deadlift
Upright row
Hamtring curls

Fri
Squat
Bench
Bent row
Standing press

Week 5-8 (4sets, 5 reps)

Mon
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Weds
Clean pull
Rom Deadlift
Push press
Hamstring curls

Fri
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Week 9-12 (4 sets, 3 reps)

Mon
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Weds
Clean pull
Rom Deadlift
Push press
Hamstring curls

Fri
Power clean
Squat
Bench
Bent row

Week 1-4 = Hypertrophy (90secs recovery)
Week 5-8 = Strength (3min recovery)
Week 9-12 = Power (3-5min recovery)

hmmm not that good really but oh well...

the power would only work if the intensity was lower but then again you would loose strength... since everything done at light weights etc... bleh i cant think what else to say about it... why dont folk juse conjugative periosdisation it works best imo for athletes...

Veeshmack
05-31-2007, 11:50 AM
scott. you lost me there with the big words "conjugative periosdisation"

scott_donald
05-31-2007, 02:14 PM
scott. you lost me there with the big words "conjugative periosdisation"

Q: Joe,
I've been in the strength and conditioning industry for about 5 years. I like to work primarily with athletes. Since I?m CSCS you can imagine a lot of the teaching I got on periodization and training athletes was based around the NSCA's linear periodization model. In the last 2-3 years I've increased my knowledge a great deal by studying a lot, focusing mostly on learning different strength coach's approaches to training. I?m a big fan of the Westside Barbell method of training and I learned a lot by going to their seminar. I feel the Eastern form of Conjugate periodization is fantastic, but most of the Westside Barbell writings deal directly with powerlifting. While I understand the basic structure of the model, I'd love to learn more about it and how to apply it to athletes. Are there any books or other sources of information you'd recommend to an aspiring strength coach so he can learn more about the Conjugate System and how to apply it to athletes?

Thanks for the help,
Mark Bubeck, MS, CSCS, CPT, CNS

A: Mark,
Unfortunately, there is nothing out there written on how to apply the Conjugate System to athletes. As you already know, most of the publications in this country are centered around the Western (linear) periodization model. It?s frustrating. I?ve spent the last couple of years trying to ?un-learn? a lot of the concepts that I learned in college.

Since you have a solid educational background, I would recommend you read ?Science of Sports Training? by Tom Kurz and ?Supertraining? by Mel Siff and Yuri Verkhoshansky. They both explain some of the concepts behind the Conjugate System. But, you have to then formulate your own opinions with regards to using this system with athletes after reading these texts.

Here are some of my thoughts about incorporating the Conjugate System with athletes:

Remember that ?Conjugated? means that you train many aspects of strength at the same time. You don?t train them in different cycles as you would with the Western method of periodization. The theory is that in order to get the best results, you need to raise all aspects of strength at the same time (maximal strength, speed-strength, strength-endurance, etc.). If you do it in phases (western periodization), you will lose what you have gained as you move into the next phase. (Example: If you complete a 6-week hypertrophy phase and then lose most of the muscle that you gained when you go into the next phase, what was the purpose of the hypertrophy phase?) Remember that if you stop training it, you won?t retain it!

If you were to use the Conjugate method of periodization with athletes, you would devote one day a week to force development using the dynamic-effort method and one day a week to max strength using the maximal-effort method. On max-effort day, you must train with weights using 90%-100+% and constantly try to break records on special exercises. The more advanced your athletes are, the more often they should rotate special exercises. The dynamic-effort day is devoted to moving lighter weights with the greatest possible acceleration. This is the only periodization model that allows you to ?peak? continuously throughout the year.

Now, I think that the Westside Barbell method for training lower body is a great way for most athletes to train their legs. The one major change that I make with my athletes is that I add more lunge, step-up and split squat variations. Simply put, I think ?athletes? need more unilateral work compared to powerlifters.

As far as the upper body exercise selection is concerned, that varies depending on the athlete?s training level and sport. For example, floor presses, rack lockouts and board presses are great core exercises for football lineman, but they may not be the best choices for a baseball player. Don?t be afraid to ?think outside of the box? and develop your own exercise choices for different athletes on max-effort day and dynamic-effort day. For example, instead of always doing ballistic bench-presses on dynamic upper body days, I sometimes do dynamic chin-ups with my wrestlers as their ?core? lift.

Hope this gives you some guidance on a very in-depth subject.
Never stop learning!

Veeshmack
05-31-2007, 02:41 PM
that was a long read, but i think i got some useful stuff outa there
thanks again scott

scott_donald
05-31-2007, 02:59 PM
that was a long read, but i think i got some useful stuff outa there
thanks again scott

dont take it tho that i think westside variations are the only way to train but to me conjate training makes perfect sense...