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aserecuba
04-30-2004, 12:00 PM
what are the pros and cons. do the negative consequences really outweight the positive.? in an enviroment where everyone would be treated the same regardless of skin color, etc. i guess my question is would you be willing to give up most of your rights so that:



-possibly no more crime
- more respectful children
- more educated kids.

someone add to the list.

now i now that i said people would be trated the same regardless of skin color. most probably this wouldnt be the case but ASSUMING that it was. would you give up most of your rights so that we live in a safer environment or are you too selfish and would rather live in a world thats going to hell and you couldnt give a **** as long as you are free to go out at 2 in the morning and get drunk or do whatever you want.

BuckWyld
04-30-2004, 12:03 PM
I dont see what skin color has to do with rights and crime. I also would not give up any of my rights, I do not think that giving up civil liberties makes me any safer. besides i do not think that i am unsafe at this point, violent crime is slightly higer than a few years ago (a bad economy will do that) but over all crime levels seem to be the lowest ever since the 50's. so in all i dont feel unsafe and no one can have my liberties, they are worth more than anything. oh and my kid is respectfull and smart, it has nothing to do with civil liberties it has to do with good parenting.

CerealKiller
04-30-2004, 12:30 PM
aserecuba,

I'm not sure what you mean by "one rule government" and how you're equating freedom with skin color.

Could you explain what you're talking about in another way ?

nuclearboy
04-30-2004, 12:36 PM
maybe he thinks that whites invented and discovered everything on earth, that they have nothing to do with other races, and that its time to tell the others; stay in your ****ing third world country or we will nuke you.

aserecuba
04-30-2004, 12:37 PM
well what i meant is under one rule government there wouldnt bia any bias towards any specific race..


would you be willing to give up 99% of your rights and liberties in exchance for an almost perfect world. no crime, ample resources, etc.

CerealKiller
04-30-2004, 12:49 PM
No. But I've always had a problem with authority.

Freedom is more important than safety to me.

I don't want someone telling me how I should live. Especially some pinhead president who thinks he was appointed by god and knows what's best for everybody.

aserecuba
04-30-2004, 12:51 PM
no wonder this world is going to hell then. everyone puts their interests before anything.

CerealKiller
04-30-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
no wonder this world is going to hell then. everyone puts their interests before anything.

That raises an interesting point.

Is it possible to be other than self-centered?

I question whether a person can be other than self-centered.

aserecuba
04-30-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by CerealKiller
That raises an interesting point.

Is it possible to be other than self-centered?

I question whether a person can be other than self-centered.
interesting question indeed.

this doesnt have anything to do with civil liberties but if you had $100,000 and a house in LA. would you rather buy another house in Hawaii or give it to 10 year old tito , who needs it for a heart transplant?

BuckWyld
04-30-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba

would you be willing to give up 99% of your rights and liberties in exchance for an almost perfect world. no crime, ample resources, etc.

i consider a world without rights and liberties to be far from perfect.

aserecuba
04-30-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by BuckWyld
i consider a world without rights and liberties to be far from perfect.

sit down and give it some thought

LordNeon
04-30-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
well what i meant is under one rule government there wouldnt bia any bias towards any specific race..


would you be willing to give up 99% of your rights and liberties in exchance for an almost perfect world. no crime, ample resources, etc.

How do you ensure that your world stays almost perfect if all your rights and liberties are gone? What is the government's motive to remain benevolent, effective, and accountable?

aserecuba
04-30-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by LordNeon
How do you ensure that your world stays almost perfect if all your rights and liberties are gone? What is the government's motive to remain benevolent, effective, and accountable?

i know i know. but assuming it does.

LordNeon
04-30-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
i know i know. but assuming it does.

OK, then sure - in the fantasy world where governments can be trusted to always have your best interest at heart, I'd give up my civil liberties for safety and prosperity.

BuckWyld
04-30-2004, 01:44 PM
you have still not explained any link between a lack of civil liberties and a perfect world? why do you think the two can not co-exist?

aserecuba
04-30-2004, 01:48 PM
cuz one person will always try to mess the other. thats human nature.

anyway by civil liberies. lets also add the followings.

99% type of entertainment is restricted. basically all there is to do is work, go home, sleep and community gatherings once in a while.

CerealKiller
04-30-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
interesting question indeed.

this doesnt have anything to do with civil liberties but if you had $100,000 and a house in LA. would you rather buy another house in Hawaii or give it to 10 year old tito , who needs it for a heart transplant?

Give for the heart transplant, but again that would be centered around my self interest to give.

Jcfreak_02
04-30-2004, 02:01 PM
"People who are willing to sacrifice freedom for security desereve neither."
---Ben Franklin

I agree with him. This can really get back to a Hobbs and finding where and how far the government should extend in their power. Something to consider, in Nazi Germany the crime rate was low, people were safer, and German society was doing quite well. They only paid for those benefits with the pressence of the SS and the Facist rule.

illriginal
04-30-2004, 02:05 PM
If that happens... Im goin underground and never seeing the day of light. I'd rather keep different governments and have atleast the rights that we have left lol. **** THE NWO!!!

Heavily Armed
04-30-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
well what i meant is under one rule government there wouldnt bia any bias towards any specific race..


would you be willing to give up 99% of your rights and liberties in exchance for an almost perfect world. no crime, ample resources, etc.

That sort of world wouldn't exist. You'd have a one world dictatorship. Whenever power is concentrated in such a way, people become property. Such promises always sell tyranny. My rights are non-negotiable.

axiombiological
05-01-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
what are the pros and cons. do the negative consequences really outweight the positive.? in an enviroment where everyone would be treated the same regardless of skin color, etc.

You have not demonstrated in "what" manner everyone would be treated equally: equally with human value, or equally as slaves.


i guess my question is would you be willing to give up most of your rights so that:



-possibly no more crime
- more respectful children
- more educated kids.

You have not demonstrated why such effects would necessarily occur in this world. I would argue that it would not, but then this find of fantasy world is what has driven socialism for so long.


someone add to the list.

-Complete regulation of human activity
-punitive actions taken against those who speak out against the "system"


now i now that i said people would be trated the same regardless of skin color. most probably this wouldnt be the case but ASSUMING that it was. would you give up most of your rights so that we live in a safer environment or are you too selfish and would rather live in a world thats going to hell and you couldnt give a **** as long as you are free to go out at 2 in the morning and get drunk or do whatever you want.

You make the concept of freedom and natural rights sound as if they are evil and the concept of slavery, one of goodness. Explain why it is better to be obligated to the wishes of the masses and not to oneself. Explain why man should act with no self-interest and only act for the wants and demands of the many. Explain why a child should be born into servitude to the many.

When you can answer these questions reasonably, you probably won't need to ask your original question.