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View Full Version : If Noah's Ark was found...would more people believe in God?



.aeterna
04-28-2004, 05:04 AM
Pretty straightforward question...
In my opinion, i believe more people would.

Lynne
04-28-2004, 06:03 AM
I wonder about that. If people don't believe the prophets, will they believe historical fact? I think only those who are predestined will believe in the atonement. Belief in God is a start though :) Who knows how God will work....

BigKazWSM747
04-28-2004, 06:11 AM
Well this is an impossibility because Noahs arc would be at least 4,000 years ago and the wood would have already rotted and decomposed. ;)

CITADEL
04-28-2004, 06:15 AM
Yes people would because for once Christians would actually have something to see and say look how do you explain this. I would seriously have to reconsider my beliefs that Christianity is bogus if they found a huge boat up in some 20,000 foot mountain. But like BigKaz said, how would it still be there after all this time?

dmbfan1
04-28-2004, 06:50 AM
not sying it is true, but if the wood somehow petrified....it could still be there. It is not impossible. I Doubt they will find it though, if it did indeed exist.

Jcfreak_02
04-28-2004, 07:50 AM
Am I the only one that has seen the Noah's Ark found documentaries on TV? It has been foudn by several expeditions. It is now severed and partially buried in Mt. Ararat Turkey. It has been found. The real question is whether people will believe that it is Noah's Ark. BTW Bigkaz, being that it has been frozen for the vast majority of this time it is not decomposing at a very rapid rate. The wood samples of the ark that people have taken were gopher wood, whereas there are no gopher wood trees around Ararat for several hundred miles. How people accept this evidence is an example of the rich man and Lazurus.
Luke 16
19 There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25 But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27 He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29 Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

LethalOnGuitarZ
04-28-2004, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
Am I the only one that has seen the Noah's Ark found documentaries on TV? It has been foudn by several expeditions. It is now severed and partially buried in Mt. Ararat Turkey. It has been found. The real question is whether people will believe that it is Noah's Ark. BTW Bigkaz, being that it has been frozen for the vast majority of this time it is not decomposing at a very rapid rate. The wood samples of the ark that people have taken were gopher wood, whereas there are no gopher wood trees around Ararat for several hundred miles. How people accept this evidence is an example of the rich man and Lazurus.
Luke 16
19 There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25 But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27 He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29 Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

Yeah I heard about that too, but I prefer to take all of that us complete and utter BS :)....

Jcfreak_02
04-28-2004, 08:43 AM
Thus the example of how the scripture is proven ^^^

aflex2002
04-28-2004, 08:50 AM
it would be nice to think people could have more faith but when you think about it, the more proof that gets uncovered, the more excuses people make up for its existence.....even if we were to find HARD evidence, people would spend more time trying to prove it isnt evidence then trying to prove that it is...so its really pointless

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by BigKazWSM747
Well this is an impossibility because Noahs arc would be at least 4,000 years ago and the wood would have already rotted and decomposed. ;)

bro not to flame but thats ignorant. you know nothing about material decomposition

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by aflex2002
it would be nice to think people could have more faith but when you think about it, the more proof that gets uncovered, the more excuses people make up for its existence.....even if we were to find HARD evidence, people would spend more time trying to prove it isnt evidence then trying to prove that it is...so its really pointless

you hit the nail right on the head. no matter what they find, unbelievers will always try to find an alternative. it reminds me of the bible plague stories where the pharao's magicians tried to replicate all the plagues sent by God , so the pharao would not believe moses.

CITADEL
04-28-2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
you hit the nail right on the head. no matter what they find, unbelievers will always try to find an alternative. it reminds me of the bible plague stories where the pharao's magicians tried to replicate all the plagues sent by God , so the pharao would not believe moses.

Religious people do the same thing when it comes to evolution and other forms of science when it contradicts their faith. Scientist could prove 100% evolution is fact and you still would say it's not, so how are you any different?

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Religious people do the same thing when it comes to evolution and other forms of science when it contradicts their faith. Scientist could prove 100% evolution is fact and you still would say it's not, so how are you any different?

but the fact is they havent even proved it, its a THEORY. while the bible is acepted as fact. but its up to you to belive. its the bible, not the "theory of the bible" as oppossed to, the "theory" of evolution.


plus is one thing to say we found a bone, but yet not find one transitive form from one to the other. than findind a 900 feet boat 20000 feet up in a mountain, made out of wood not remotely native to that area.

they would say oh well whatever maybe the earth was flooded so that it covered all the mountains but that doesnt mean the story in the bible is true. really? how would that person on the boat know to build the arc at specifications that would not allow it to sink and to take most animals on the boat with provisions for months and months . how would he know that the entire earth would be flooded and he needed to take them or else they would be extinct.

or did all the animals evolve from scratch again?

or di

CITADEL
04-28-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
but the fact is they havent even proved it, its a THEORY. while the bible is acepted as fact. but its up to you to belive. its the bible, not the "theory of the bible" as oppossed to, the "theory" of evolution.


plus is one thing to say we found a bone, but yet not find one transitive form from one to the other. than findind a 900 feet boat 20000 feet up in a mountain, made out of wood not remotely native to that area.

they would say oh well whatever maybe the earth was flooded so that it covered all the mountains but that doesnt mean the story in the bible is true. really? how would that person on the boat know to build the arc at specifications that would not allow it to sink and to take most animals on the boat with provisions for months and months . how would he know that the entire earth would be flooded and he needed to take them or else they would be extinct.

or did all the animals evolve from scratch again?

or di

The Bible isn't fact. Any what's the deal with this ark? According to you they havn't been up there yet but JCfreak says they have? Can someone post a link with some updated pictures if they have in fact been up there?

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
The Bible isn't fact. Any what's the deal with this ark? According to you they havn't been up there yet but JCfreak says they have? Can someone post a link with some updated pictures if they have in fact been up there?


i said fact because its not " the theory of the bible" its the word of God. as oppossed to the "theory of evolution. some mountain people have

.aeterna
04-28-2004, 09:31 AM
Science is man made in itself...lol...

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 09:48 AM
anyway for those that are interested. many old eyewitnesses account dating back to 1890 and many many pictures of FOSSILS,

yes SEA FOSSILS. high up in mount ararat, i wonder how they got up there.

links to sea fossils, sea shells, etc in the mountain

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/AaltenGerrit/AaltenGerrit.htm

and more photos

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/01.JPG
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/02.JPG
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/03.JPG
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/04.JPG
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/05.JPG
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/06.JPG

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/BowersDoris/07.JPG


and for eyewitnesses account and stuff go here.

www.noahsarksearch.com

Jcfreak_02
04-28-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Religious people do the same thing when it comes to evolution and other forms of science when it contradicts their faith. Scientist could prove 100% evolution is fact and you still would say it's not, so how are you any different? I suppose you can call that a logical fallacy. We admit that we have faith in the bible, and there are plenty of scientific arguements that can negate the theory of macroevolution. Whereas scientists that use their data to try to disprove the bible will insist it is that they are not having faith in their conclusions. This was addressed in the "Is science a faith" thread. I will agree that micro-evolution is real, it is evidence of different breeds and similar species. Macro-evolution (bird to reptile) has not had significant scientific evidence. There are also plenty of evolution threads to look at.
Here is another bit of evidence for the ark, note they all are alleged.
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/Eyewitnesses.htm

dmbfan1
04-28-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
i said fact because its not " the theory of the bible" its the word of God. as oppossed to the "theory of evolution. some mountain people have

still, the bible is more of a "based on a true story" document, esp. in the old testement. Some of those stories had been around for so long, many details were changed.

15 Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah.

every living thing...so he managed to find polar bears and penguins in the middle east? I truly believe in the Bible, but i feel you must take into context the way things were written at the time. No matter how big the flood, i do not believe it covered the whole earth.

LordNeon
04-28-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Lynne
I wonder about that. If people don't believe the prophets, will they believe historical fact? I think only those who are predestined will believe in the atonement. Belief in God is a start though :) Who knows how God will work....

Proving that the Bible was based on historical events doesn't make its interpretation of them true. Jesus probably did exist and was executed, but that doesn't mean he was the son of God.

Woden
04-28-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
I suppose you can call that a logical fallacy. We admit that we have faith in the bible, and there are plenty of scientific arguements that can negate the theory of macroevolution. Whereas scientists that use their data to try to disprove the bible will insist it is that they are not having faith in their conclusions. This was addressed in the "Is science a faith" thread. I will agree that micro-evolution is real, it is evidence of different breeds and similar species. Macro-evolution (bird to reptile) has not had significant scientific evidence. There are also plenty of evolution threads to look at.
Here is another bit of evidence for the ark, note they all are alleged.
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/Eyewitnesses.htm

There are no arguments that can disprove Macro Evoloution. If there were 99% of Biologists would not believe it. It isn't like scientists are out to get Christians or anything. I mysefl would believe in God if sufficient evidence were given, but none is, and I frankly believe the Judeo-Christian concept of god is bull****. Come on, the Bible has so many logical and moral flaws it's like Swiss Cheese.

You should also note that the existence of the Ark has not yet been confirmed. So stop acting like its been proven. Even if there is a large boat on the top of Mount Arat, you still have to pick whihc religon to go with (so many have flood stories).

.aeterna
04-28-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by dmbfan1
still, the bible is more of a "based on a true story" document, esp. in the old testement. Some of those stories had been around for so long, many details were changed.

15 Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah.

every living thing...so he managed to find polar bears and penguins in the middle east? I truly believe in the Bible, but i feel you must take into context the way things were written at the time. No matter how big the flood, i do not believe it covered the whole earth.

Exactly. During those times, the population probably maxed out at a few hundred. And that tiny amount of people would must likely have stayed in a small compacted area.
That would make sense in that God only needed to flood that small area...hence leaving the hundreds of other species of animals to thrive.

Quantum_Man
04-28-2004, 01:44 PM
I notice a lot of people immediately discounting the Bible without actually giving their reasons why they are doing so. So before going into that, please go here and read at least that page. (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Case/case1.html) Thank you for your time if you do read it.

The Conqueror
04-28-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Pretty straightforward question...
In my opinion, i believe more people would.

Faith is NOT by sight.

A better question would be "If Noah's Ark was not found would you doubt God?"

CITADEL
04-28-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Jcfreak_02
Here is another bit of evidence for the ark, note they all are alleged.
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/Eyewitnesses.htm

All of those desriptions are different? Can you explain how this is evidence if 50 differnet people saw 50 different things, just on the same mountain?

AnotherScorpion
04-28-2004, 04:32 PM
Noah's Ark a good bed time story my Mom used to read to me!

http://www.atheists.org/bone.pit/morrisdebate.html

blaker00
04-28-2004, 04:36 PM
if a freakin ship was found that doesn't proove god existed. If god came down to me and said hey, I'm god ill proove it to you.

Than I can consider that proof; Or something to that extent.

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by dmbfan1
still, the bible is more of a "based on a true story" document, esp. in the old testement. Some of those stories had been around for so long, many details were changed.

15 Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah.

every living thing...so he managed to find polar bears and penguins in the middle east? I truly believe in the Bible, but i feel you must take into context the way things were written at the time. No matter how big the flood, i do not believe it covered the whole earth.

it had to cover the whole earth because no flesh was left alive. and how would the boat drift to the top of mount ararat? if it covered mount ararat it must have covered the whole earth.

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Exactly. During those times, the population probably maxed out at a few hundred. And that tiny amount of people would must likely have stayed in a small compacted area.
That would make sense in that God only needed to flood that small area...hence leaving the hundreds of other species of animals to thrive.

a few hundred? the earth was littered with people. everyone was, excuse the word, fuvkin left and right. even the angels with women.

.aeterna
04-28-2004, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by blaker00
if a freakin ship was found that doesn't proove god existed. If god came down to me and said hey, I'm god ill proove it to you.

Than I can consider that proof; Or something to that extent.

Um..do you KNOW the story of Noahs Ark? How in hell do you think a ship would wind up on the top of a mountain then?

CITADEL
04-28-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Um..do you KNOW the story of Noahs Ark? How in hell do you think a ship would wind up on the top of a mountain then?

Someone show me a picture of a ship on a mountain!!!

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Someone show me a picture of a ship on a mountain!!!


and by ship it wasnt probably the same shapes as those today. as specified in the bible, it was most likely a rectangle. thats what the pics show. but i guess we'll find out soon enough just what is up there.

Ak47
04-28-2004, 07:46 PM
HAHAHA. Yes, they found Noah's Arc on top of a mountain. Nevermind the fact that a ship would need to be the size of TEN mountains to fit even a fraction of all the animals on the planet. aserecuba, they found SEA fossils on top of the mountain for the same reasons they find SEA fossils in the desert all the time. It used to be a sea. The moving of tectonic plates creates mountains (and earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.) so there must have been a sea there in the past.

And here is an interesting question to ponder: if it was only Noah's family on the ship, how did the ENTIRE human race come from them? You mean to tell me that five billion people came from a measley ten? It is proven that incest greatly increases the risk for disease and mental disorders, and the same goes for the "two of every animal" theory.

Its a fairy tale guys; a bed time story meant to scare kids (and gullible adults) from sinning, or they me be drowned by the wrath of God! Sure, bible stories have some good lessons, but so did Aesops Fables.

blaker00
04-28-2004, 08:02 PM
with earthquakes it's possible that a ship could be on top of a mountain. Also who cares if theres a ship on a mountain doesn't proove god exists.

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Ak47
HAHAHA. Yes, they found Noah's Arc on top of a mountain. Nevermind the fact that a ship would need to be the size of TEN mountains to fit even a fraction of all the animals on the planet. aserecuba, they found SEA fossils on top of the mountain for the same reasons they find SEA fossils in the desert all the time. It used to be a sea. The moving of tectonic plates creates mountains (and earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.) so there must have been a sea there in the past.

And here is an interesting question to ponder: if it was only Noah's family on the ship, how did the ENTIRE human race come from them? You mean to tell me that five billion people came from a measley ten? It is proven that incest greatly increases the risk for disease and mental disorders, and the same goes for the "two of every animal" theory.

Its a fairy tale guys; a bed time story meant to scare kids (and gullible adults) from sinning, or they me be drowned by the wrath of God! Sure, bible stories have some good lessons, but so did Aesops Fables.

no do some reseach dexter, it wouldnt need to be the size of ten mountains. before you post this kind of stuff do some reading around.

aserecuba
04-28-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Ak47

And here is an interesting question to ponder: if it was only Noah's family on the ship, how did the ENTIRE human race come from them? You mean to tell me that five billion people came from a measley ten?

Yes. i mean to tell you that. you seem to forget that they used to live 600+ years. now the other side of the coin, you mean to tell me that 5 billion + people of many different races plus millions and millions of different animals came from 2 amoebas that evolved. well guess what makes more sense that bs theory of evolution or the fact that after the people were separated and their languages mixed they had to separate their own ways and adapted to whatever area they went to live. and yes i do believe in "micro evolution" not macro.


Originally posted by Ak47


It is proven that incest greatly increases the risk for disease and mental disorders, and the same goes for the "two of every animal" theory.


really ??? i can say the same thing about evolution. evolution teaches that matter is not conservative but self-originating; it can arise from nothing and increase. The First Law of Thermodynamics annihilates this error. so it is proven that you cant get "something from nothing"

evolution teaches that matter and living things keep becoming more complex, and continually evolve toward greater perfection. Just as inorganic matter becomes successively more ordered and perfect so living creatures are always evolving into higher planes of existence The Second Law of Thermodynamics devastates this theory.

last time i checked it was still a FACT that mutations only lead to destruction not progress.
dont post **** like this without a basis.

hulkman
04-29-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Pretty straightforward question...
In my opinion, i believe more people would.


no

hulkman
04-29-2004, 12:14 AM
actually they did find it but nobodyis alowed to go on the mountain and see it in person, its on a mountain in turkey i think. just do a search on msn or something you should find some satelite photos and stuff but there isnt musch intact .


ill look for some pics and the links to sites and post them

hulkman
04-29-2004, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Religious people do the same thing when it comes to evolution and other forms of science when it contradicts their faith. Scientist could prove 100% evolution is fact and you still would say it's not, so how are you any different?


im religous and i know that evolution is 100% fact , just not to the extent that some people think

hulkman
04-29-2004, 12:35 AM
i found a web site , but sorry no satellite pics


http://www.freep.com/news/nw/noah27_20040427.htm

aserecuba
04-29-2004, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by hulkman
i found a web site , but sorry no satellite pics


http://www.freep.com/news/nw/noah27_20040427.htm
hulkman my first post has the satellite pics.

.aeterna
04-29-2004, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by hulkman
im religous and i know that evolution is 100% fact , just not to the extent that some people think

Ok, you dont no ****. So shut your mouth. Do some ****ing research before you make retarded ass statements. I'm not even going to bother describing how contradictory evolution is.

aserecuba
04-29-2004, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Ok, you dont no ****. So shut your mouth. Do some ****ing research before you make retarded ass statements. I'm not even going to bother describing how contradictory evolution is.

thats why i didnt bother replying to him

Gettin_big
04-29-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Pretty straightforward question...
In my opinion, i believe more people would.

I know I wouldnt believe.
You see, Noah was a crazy geezer who built a wierd looking house with animals as his sex slaves.
Every thing has a logical explanation. :)

aserecuba
04-29-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Gettin_big
I know I wouldnt believe.
You see, Noah was a crazy geezer who built a wierd looking house with animals as his sex slaves.
Every thing has a logical explanation. :)

lol sarcasm at its best.

Gettin_big
04-29-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
lol sarcasm at its best.

ik weten.

aserecuba
04-29-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Gettin_big
ik weten.

you too, just in case.

Gettin_big
04-29-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
you too, just in case.

Oh ****, I said something stupid huh?
My crappy dutch...


it's Ik Kennen, right?

aserecuba
04-29-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Gettin_big
Oh ****, I said something stupid huh?
My crappy dutch...


it's Ik Kennen, righ?

i dont speak dutch.

Gettin_big
04-29-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
i dont speak dutch.

Lol, you live in many countries haha
I guess Scotty beams you up pretty dang fast...






EDIT: 800

CITADEL
05-07-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Teddy_Roosevelt
What about the Koran? Is that a fairy tale too? What parts do you laugh at?

You brought this thread back up to post that?

Heavily Armed
05-07-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
You brought this thread back up to post that?

He's new. Just catching up on some of the fun we've been having.

The Kurgan
05-08-2004, 01:26 AM
I'd believe in Gilgamesh, after all, that is the original story. Or maybe the Mezo-American version.

Gettin_big
05-08-2004, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Teddy_Roosevelt
What about the Koran? Is that a fairy tale too? What parts do you laugh at?

Of course no!!! It's all real!!!

hulkman
05-08-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by .aeterna
Ok, you dont no ****. So shut your mouth. Do some ****ing research before you make retarded ass statements. I'm not even going to bother describing how contradictory evolution is.



what are you talking about?


maybe you just didsnt understand what i meant , ill explain what i meant and then you will see that i know what im talking about





lets say some skinny teenager with no strength ,even had a hard time picking up a milk jug started power lifting and met a girl that basically did the same thing, well there kid would be a little stronger then he met another woman power lifter and they where doing power lifting for years then had a kid and so on and so fourth. well after generations of that type of breeding there would be the most strongest man or woman in the world because the genetics knows wich chromosomes are used and that chromosome may even change or evolve

another example would be an american indian tribe , afer so many generations of living in a desert with hardly any food they just ate when they could every day there metabilism actually slows down to such an extent after som many generations that it uses every bit that they eat so they wont starve, well when mcdonalds was introduced they saw that food was pretty good and ate there and then all kinds of super markets was brought to the area and doctore and they was told to eat 3 meals a day . well before all that stuff got here they were petty small then once alll this plentiful suply of food came there body wasnt used to it and they just plumped up



and the way i meant was like that and also like , we used to be cavemen and stuff during the stone age and ice age ,well we lived purly off the land but we hunted animals and lived in caves and stuff , during the ice age most of the time the women would stay in the home and not have verry much fisicle activity, while the men was outside and ran around hunted down animals used strength to kill them and bring them back home . because they were outside in the cold evolution made it to where they harry and because they had to use so much strength and agility they just produced so much more testosterone naturally.


now i didnt mean that we evolved from a chimp, but we may have looked some what different back in the early days , but we are constantly changing and depending on the environment in wich so many generations adapt to. and if that makes no sense to you maybe its because i dont have good gramer skills so if you would like to know more on that subject there may be a book in a librery of it.

user4165146510
07-23-2005, 09:14 PM
Can any Christian offer a comeback to what Joe says?

http://www.joerogan.net/

download Joe show #1. He argues with a guy that thinks he found Noah's ark! Joe owns him!!

KhanPaulsen
07-23-2005, 09:52 PM
Come on, the Bible has so many logical and moral flaws it's like Swiss Cheese.


Woden, make your proof, regarding both logical and moral flaws.

I'm calling you out, you might as well bring it to the table. The people that say this stuff are the same people that haven't studied it.

locknid
07-24-2005, 05:38 AM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=536458 we have already discussed noah's ark in detail in this thread. there was no reason to start another. There is sufficiant evidence in that thread that

1. a global flood couldn't happen
2. the ship would have been impossible to make
3. finding all animals, taking care of them, and finding food after the flood would be impossible
4. noah's ark hasn't been found, it was a fruad.
5. the bible specifically talks about a global flood so you can't say it might have been local.
6. tons more info

bluesky3
07-24-2005, 11:04 AM
Proving that the Bible was based on historical events doesn't make its interpretation of them true.
No kidding.
If they found the Trojan horse would you all believe in Zeus?



Jesus probably did exist and was executed...
Probably not. (http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/)

Edit to add:
Dang. Didnt realize I was posting on a zombie thread. Baaaaack from the deeeeeeeeeead!!!!!!!!

.aeterna
07-24-2005, 11:20 AM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=536458 we have already discussed noah's ark in detail in this thread. there was no reason to start another. There is sufficiant evidence in that thread that

1. a global flood couldn't happen
2. the ship would have been impossible to make
3. finding all animals, taking care of them, and finding food after the flood would be impossible
4. noah's ark hasn't been found, it was a fruad.
5. the bible specifically talks about a global flood so you can't say it might have been local.
6. tons more info


i made this thread over a year ago bro

a little late on that..lol

and btw, way to bump this thread..

Woden
07-24-2005, 11:40 AM
Woden, make your proof, regarding both logical and moral flaws.

I'm calling you out, you might as well bring it to the table. The people that say this stuff are the same people that haven't studied it.

The Bible may have numerous individual logical flaws (besides being both based and eveloped by one huge logical flaw), but debating them with anyone is a pure waste of time, and I'm not going to do it. For every single one of them there is an appropriate response that impedes any sort of progress by rational inquiry. The faith of the believer and the mystical, all-enveloping nature of their religous 'truth' makes the argument entirely unwinnable.

So thanks, but no thanks.

locknid
07-24-2005, 02:23 PM
i made this thread over a year ago bro

a little late on that..lol

and btw, way to bump this thread..

oh i didn't know. I saw that it was near the top after I got home from work so I posted in it, didn't know it was that old, someone brought it back from the dead before me

Starsky
07-24-2005, 03:51 PM
If it fit the description in the bible etc Of course yes.

KhanPaulsen
07-24-2005, 03:56 PM
The Bible may have numerous individual logical flaws (besides being both based and eveloped by one huge logical flaw), but debating them with anyone is a pure waste of time, and I'm not going to do it. For every single one of them there is an appropriate response that impedes any sort of progress by rational inquiry. The faith of the believer and the mystical, all-enveloping nature of their religous 'truth' makes the argument entirely unwinnable.

So thanks, but no thanks.

Baseless claims as per the norm.

Have a good one.

rotten
07-24-2005, 04:01 PM
Duh. If the Holy Grail was found, would more people believe in God? :rolleyes:

l0s3r
07-24-2005, 04:11 PM
Someone show me a picture of a ship on a mountain!!!
It slid down because of volcano activity, but...

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/images/wpe23.gif
As you can see, the bottom half has been preserved. The wood has been petrified and protected. Rivets were found as a constant pattern, dated back to the time of Noah. The size of this boat found is the size noted in the Bible: 300 cubits (515 feet). The government officials have opened up a visitor's center and declared it to be Noah's Ark.

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-04.htm
The anchor stone, with crosses inscribed on the side, with One big cross in the center (Noah) and seven smaller crosses which symbolize Noah's family brought with him in the Ark.

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-05.htm

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-06.htm

The opening of the visitor's center and Turkish government's declaration of the real Ark:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-07.htm

Lab tests:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-08.htm

Rivets discovered:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-10.htm

More Lab tests:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-12.htm

::EDIT:: Plant and Animal fibers found on the ship, taken from the same website:
"In 1985 a six-inch hole was drilled into the side of the ark. By way of that hole, matrix material samples were taken from within a cavity. Careful examination of the samples with the naked eye revealed fibers that appeared to be hair. Recently these fibers were evaluated by a fiber expert in one of the nations leading crime labs.

Under microscopic evaluation using both white and crossed polars light, the fibers revealed all of the features characteristic of mammal hair. Further, the hair was determined to be that of an animal as was clearly indicated by a unicellular medulla (center cell structure). "Color banding" was also noted. "Color banding" is the change in color of the hair from one end to the other; not uncommon to the mammal fur hair of the Felidae (cat) family. Only a portion of the hair root remained, however, the fibrous appearance of the remaining root is indicative of the Felidae hair.

Other fibers from the matrix material were also evaluated. One of the samples proved to be some sort of plant fiber as the cellular structure was plainly visible.

Another hairlike fiber was evaluated which revealed very unusual characteristics: the shaft of the fiber was long and cylindrical like hair, but revealed none of the other characteristics commonly associated with hair. Along the outer surface of the fiber, angular spines extended from the shaft. The specialists believed this to be some sort of plant fiber but all agreed that they had never seen anything like it.

And finally, one of the fibers taken from the matrix had neither animal nor plant characteristics. The specialists agreed that if this fiber had been collected as modern day evidence, there would be no hesitation in declaring it man-made!

The samples are in the process of being photographed under microscopic enlargement so that this documentation can be shared with other experts around the world."

rotten
07-24-2005, 04:14 PM
LMAO. I have a lot of Armenian friends who say Noah was Armenian. LMAO. Those freaking Armenians are full of themselves.

locknid
07-24-2005, 04:19 PM
It slid down because of volcano activity, but...

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/images/wpe23.gif
As you can see, the bottom half has been preserved. The wood has been petrified and protected. Rivets were found as a constant pattern, dated back to the time of Noah. The size of this boat found is the size noted in the Bible: 300 cubits (515 feet). The government officials have opened up a visitor's center and declared it to be Noah's Ark.

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-04.htm
The anchor stone, with crosses inscribed on the side, with One big cross in the center (Noah) and seven smaller crosses which symbolize Noah's family brought with him in the Ark.

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-05.htm

http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-06.htm

The opening of the visitor's center and Turkish government's declaration of the real Ark:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-07.htm

Lab tests:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-08.htm

Rivets discovered:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-10.htm

More Lab tests:
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahs-ark-12.htm

::EDIT:: Plant and Animal fibers found on the ship, taken from the same website:
"In 1985 a six-inch hole was drilled into the side of the ark. By way of that hole, matrix material samples were taken from within a cavity. Careful examination of the samples with the naked eye revealed fibers that appeared to be hair. Recently these fibers were evaluated by a fiber expert in one of the nations leading crime labs.

Under microscopic evaluation using both white and crossed polars light, the fibers revealed all of the features characteristic of mammal hair. Further, the hair was determined to be that of an animal as was clearly indicated by a unicellular medulla (center cell structure). "Color banding" was also noted. "Color banding" is the change in color of the hair from one end to the other; not uncommon to the mammal fur hair of the Felidae (cat) family. Only a portion of the hair root remained, however, the fibrous appearance of the remaining root is indicative of the Felidae hair.

Other fibers from the matrix material were also evaluated. One of the samples proved to be some sort of plant fiber as the cellular structure was plainly visible.

Another hairlike fiber was evaluated which revealed very unusual characteristics: the shaft of the fiber was long and cylindrical like hair, but revealed none of the other characteristics commonly associated with hair. Along the outer surface of the fiber, angular spines extended from the shaft. The specialists believed this to be some sort of plant fiber but all agreed that they had never seen anything like it.

And finally, one of the fibers taken from the matrix had neither animal nor plant characteristics. The specialists agreed that if this fiber had been collected as modern day evidence, there would be no hesitation in declaring it man-made!

The samples are in the process of being photographed under microscopic enlargement so that this documentation can be shared with other experts around the world."

If you follow the links provided in the other noah's ark thread you will find that it was a fruad, even answersingenesis.com says it is. here is just a short snippit, much more info on the webpages

"The metal traces that were interpreted as iron brackets were actually goethite, a hydrated iron oxide. This mineral was thoroughly mixed with clay, calcite, quartz, and anthophyllite particles, and it showed a large amount of chemical variability across the sample. Neither of these properties would occur in smelted iron.

The purported walls of the ark are limonite concentrations. Their boatlike shape is consistent with an eroded doubly plunging syncline. The stresses of such folding commonly cause fractures that cut across the layers. Water moving through these fractures would have produced the limonite concentrations that were interpreted as dividing walls.

In short, the structure is consistent with the following geological history:


Rocks formed when sediments eroded from nearby volcanic rocks and were compacted.
These layers were folded into a doubly plunging syncline.
A marine sea eroded a channel into the rocks and deposited fossiliferous limestone in it.
The land was uplifted, and erosion removed most of the limestone and exposed the fold.
A landslide carried blocks of rock and mud around the synclinal structure.

This interpretation is consistent with the structure itself and with the surrounding geology (Collins and Fasold 1996).


No fossilized wood or traces of wood, reed, or elemental carbon were found associated with the structure (Collins and Fasold 1996).


The Durupinar site is incompatible with the biblical account. Genesis 8:4-6 says the flood waters receded for two and a half months after the ark landed before other mountaintops became visible. The Durupinar site is almost 10,000 feet lower than the summit of nearby Agri Dagh. Agri Dagh would have been visible above water even before the ark landed (Standish and Standish 1999, 236).

The Bible describes a rectangular ark. Wyatt's ark is boat-shaped and about 50 percent wider than the dimensions given in the Bible (Standish and Standish 1999, 106, 230-231). "

here follow this link for a christian debunking of ron wyatt http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/ he is known as a fraud and the turkish government actually does not say it is the ark like wyatt's site says

bluesky3
07-24-2005, 04:27 PM
Baseless claims as per the norm.
Woden's actually quite right. It is absolutely pointelss for a sane human being to argue against apologetics. That's the purpose of apologetics.

Though I always think it's funny when Christians say 'there are no contradictions in the Bible' because that obviously means they havent even read their own holy book.

Wait, strike that, not 'funny.' I meant 'disgusting.'

I refuse to quote the Bible to Christians, so here's a hint for one: Have you read 'Luke?' Have you read 'Matthew?' There's a pretty big contradiction between them.

AKR
07-25-2005, 12:08 AM
but the fact is they havent even proved it, its a THEORY. while the bible is acepted as fact. but its up to you to belive. its the bible, not the "theory of the bible" as oppossed to, the "theory" of evolution.


hahaha. this post gave me a good laugh. it's even funnier that you're serious.

Desahogo
07-25-2005, 08:29 AM
hahaha. this post gave me a good laugh. it's even funnier that you're serious.
i doubt he'll answer you, that guy was banned years ago. lol

Agnostic
07-25-2005, 11:02 AM
I can only imagine what a boat would look like after 6000 years of some of the harshest terrain in the world....:rolleyes:

They see what looks like to be some wood on a mountain and say "That must be the ark" :rolleyes:

Diesel66
07-25-2005, 02:41 PM
I can only imagine what a boat would look like after 6000 years of some of the harshest terrain in the world....:rolleyes:

They see what looks like to be some wood on a mountain and say "That must be the ark" :rolleyes:
At least get the years right. Approx 4500 years ago.

.aeterna
03-21-2008, 07:25 PM
bump for such an awesome thread





for the record, im not a christian....agnostic at most

mlc82
03-22-2008, 09:13 AM
Did finding the ruins of the city of Troy (or what is strongly believed to be) cause anyone to then believe that The Iliad must be 100% true, that Achilles really lived and slew thousands of men, or that on his way home from Troy, Odysseus had some interesting run ins with a cyclops and some harpies?

Same could be said for the Sumerians- did finding the ruins left of their civilization then prove that their gods, IIRC the "Annunaki", lived there and coexisted with them as well?

An actual, beyond doubt find of such an artifact would be incredibly interesting to me, but wouldn't cause me to believe in the gods/miracles attributed to it any more than those I've listed above.

Fidelis
03-22-2008, 09:22 AM
bump for such an awesome thread





for the record, im not a christian....agnostic at most
lol I have a feeling this thread is about to get trashed. The R/P of three years ago is much different than the R/P of today.

mlc82
03-22-2008, 09:25 AM
Wow, I didn't realize how old this thread originally was, I just saw the post from today, clicked it, then started reading it from the beginning. Nothing like resurrecting a thread from '05 ;)

Fidelis
03-22-2008, 09:27 AM
Wow, I didn't realize how old this thread originally was, I just saw the post from today, clicked it, then started reading it from the beginning. Nothing like resurrecting a thread from '05 ;)
'04 actually :o

RelentlessChaos
03-22-2008, 09:32 AM
No. Rule #1 of the atheist book

Christians cant rationalize thier book and beleifs when questioned. When atheists presented with evidence for the belief of God atheists can rationalize.






pretty much true here isnt it? Religeous folks are said to "rationalize" here all the time. But ive presented many stories here and no one disproved them....they just said "its a historic figure theylle use." yes someone actually said "Christians just used this bog boat as a part of thier fairy tale story."


-Noahs ark
-Soddom and Gammorah
-Chariots found in sea

there are more.

I made my one thread, and no one had anything good to say. And to OP. Yes and no. There are some that may find God, but most hardcore atheists will rationalize thier way out of it. mark my words.

AdonisSMU
03-22-2008, 09:33 AM
If god came down to me and said hey, I'm god ill proove it to you.

Than I can consider that proof; Or something to that extent.That's how I found god.

Daswiz
03-22-2008, 09:38 AM
TMnThZgN-PM

squanto
03-22-2008, 09:47 AM
http://www.murals4u.com/images2/ark.jpeg

http://www.softduit.com/images/Blog_Folders/article_images/NoahsArkinaMinivan_FC5/brettalmighty2.jpg

http://coad.net/blog/images/Noah_27s_20Ark_20Cartoon.jpg

Seems about right.

hulkman
01-10-2010, 11:14 PM
what are you talking about?


maybe you just didsnt understand what i meant , ill explain what i meant and then you will see that i know what im talking about





lets say some skinny teenager with no strength ,even had a hard time picking up a milk jug started power lifting and met a girl that basically did the same thing, well there kid would be a little stronger then he met another woman power lifter and they where doing power lifting for years then had a kid and so on and so fourth. well after generations of that type of breeding there would be the most strongest man or woman in the world because the genetics knows wich chromosomes are used and that chromosome may even change or evolve

another example would be an american indian tribe , afer so many generations of living in a desert with hardly any food they just ate when they could every day there metabilism actually slows down to such an extent after som many generations that it uses every bit that they eat so they wont starve, well when mcdonalds was introduced they saw that food was pretty good and ate there and then all kinds of super markets was brought to the area and doctore and they was told to eat 3 meals a day . well before all that stuff got here they were petty small then once alll this plentiful suply of food came there body wasnt used to it and they just plumped up



and the way i meant was like that and also like , we used to be cavemen and stuff during the stone age and ice age ,well we lived purly off the land but we hunted animals and lived in caves and stuff , during the ice age most of the time the women would stay in the home and not have verry much fisicle activity, while the men was outside and ran around hunted down animals used strength to kill them and bring them back home . because they were outside in the cold evolution made it to where they harry and because they had to use so much strength and agility they just produced so much more testosterone naturally.


now i didnt mean that we evolved from a chimp, but we may have looked some what different back in the early days , but we are constantly changing and depending on the environment in wich so many generations adapt to. and if that makes no sense to you maybe its because i dont have good gramer skills so if you would like to know more on that subject there may be a book in a librery of it.

I was just looking up my old posts. Holly **** I was a retarded kid lol at least I understood the concept of how evolution works, sort of. lol

meing0tt
01-10-2010, 11:23 PM
How would you prove it's Noah's Ark? Not like it exists anyways

Fist-Of-Freedom
01-10-2010, 11:24 PM
That's how I found god.

wat

Skunk
01-10-2010, 11:37 PM
Strong bump...

If a boat was found that was large enough to contain millions of lifeforms, as well as the supplies needed to sustain them... then yes, I would indeed believe in a god. I'm not gonna hold my breath though.

qualityclrk1
01-10-2010, 11:39 PM
ooooh noah's ark...the boat that carried two of each animal on the planet while the entire world was flooded?....ya, sounds like i'd believe it

zenzone
01-10-2010, 11:58 PM
Strong bump...

If a boat was found that was large enough to contain millions of lifeforms, as well as the supplies needed to sustain them... then yes, I would indeed believe in a god. I'm not gonna hold my breath though.

i'm not going to spend hours digging thru scriptures (its really borring to do and tedious frankly) to verify what i'm going to say. But the flood of Noah wasn't the biggest flood. The biggest flood was the flood that wiped out the 1st earth age completely (and yes people were existent in the first earth age but not in a flesh body). Noah's flood while catastrophic didn't completely cover the earth. The flood that was delivered in Noah's time (and this is highly controversial) was to wipe out the fallen angels that were interbreeding with the women. The fallen angels were trying to destroy the bloodlines of a to be born Jesus Christ. The flood was meant and intended to destroy the offspring of the interbreeding fallen angels and flesh women. The flood was successful in achieving its purpose. Furthermore Noah's arc didn't contain two of every living thing. It was two of everything he needed. The arc wasn't that big. The arc was made of wood. Wood decays, you take on a few thousand years and the chances of finding it are null and zilch...........

and yes i realize since i'm not providing documentation on this i'm going to take some teeth for it. The content is controversial to alot of biblical translations by christians and others. However it's good to hear another viewpoint on what really happened back then. As forest Gump once said "thats all I have to say about that"

Skunk
01-11-2010, 12:01 AM
i'm not going to spend hours digging thru scriptures (its really borring to do and tedious frankly)

Don't worry brah, I didn't read past this, so it's cool man.

SiZzLaX
01-11-2010, 01:36 AM
There was a documentary or something on the arch being found(saw it probably 10 years ago. dunno if it was real or not though.

even if the arch was found in amazing condition due to being frozen or who knows what... even if inside the arch there were carvings of the story of the flood and 2 of each animals.... even if there were somehow 100% indisputable evidence... millions upon millions of people wouldn't accept it.

Blindead
01-11-2010, 01:51 AM
i'm not going to spend hours digging thru scriptures (its really borring to do and tedious frankly) to verify what i'm going to say. But the flood of Noah wasn't the biggest flood. The biggest flood was the flood that wiped out the 1st earth age completely (and yes people were existent in the first earth age but not in a flesh body). Noah's flood while catastrophic didn't completely cover the earth. The flood that was delivered in Noah's time (and this is highly controversial) was to wipe out the fallen angels that were interbreeding with the women. The fallen angels were trying to destroy the bloodlines of a to be born Jesus Christ. The flood was meant and intended to destroy the offspring of the interbreeding fallen angels and flesh women. The flood was successful in achieving its purpose. Furthermore Noah's arc didn't contain two of every living thing. It was two of everything he needed. The arc wasn't that big. The arc was made of wood. Wood decays, you take on a few thousand years and the chances of finding it are null and zilch...........

and yes i realize since i'm not providing documentation on this i'm going to take some teeth for it. The content is controversial to alot of biblical translations by christians and others. However it's good to hear another viewpoint on what really happened back then. As forest Gump once said "thats all I have to say about that"

brah...what the **** kind of Bible have you been reading?

Grinners
01-11-2010, 04:28 AM
How do people not see that Noah's arc is just a rip-off of several stories from other religions hundreds of years before it?

"A deluge myth or flood myth is a mythical story of a great flood sent by a deity or deities to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution. It is a widespread theme among many cultures, though it is perhaps best known in modern times through the biblical account of Noah's Ark, the Hindu Puranic story of Manu, through Deucalion in Greek mythology or Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

mug
01-11-2010, 05:24 AM
It seems most religions are just a sh*t tonne of plagiarism.

basement iron
01-11-2010, 05:26 AM
anyway for those that are interested. many old eyewitnesses account dating back to 1890 and many many pictures of FOSSILS,

yes SEA FOSSILS. high up in mount ararat, i wonder how they got up there.



Fossils of ocean life are found on mountain tops all over the world.

I know this poster hasn't poster here in a while but this is a shot in the dark that they will come back, read it, and ****ing learn something.

brighamw
01-11-2010, 05:34 AM
Pretty straightforward question...
In my opinion, i believe more people would.

I don't think the numbers would change at all, believers would believe more. As for non-believers, God could come smack them in the face and it wouldn't change a thing, IMO...



brah...what the **** kind of Bible have you been reading?

I don't know but his bible sounds much cooler than mine ;)

JoshSP1985
01-11-2010, 06:08 AM
still, the bible is more of a "based on a true story" document, esp. in the old testement. Some of those stories had been around for so long, many details were changed.

15 Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah.

every living thing...so he managed to find polar bears and penguins in the middle east? I truly believe in the Bible, but i feel you must take into context the way things were written at the time. No matter how big the flood, i do not believe it covered the whole earth.

I don't think it covered the whole earth either. There are studies that support the possiblity of a regional great flood.

Also, every animal could be every animal known to THEM which would DRASTICALLY limit the amount of animals on the ship.

When you look at biblical stories in the context of the times instead of trying to argue against them in their most extreme forms things are much more plausible.

M-DK
01-11-2010, 06:18 AM
I don't think it covered the whole earth either. There are studies that support the possiblity of a regional great flood.

Also, every animal could be every animal known to THEM which would DRASTICALLY limit the amount of animals on the ship.

When you look at biblical stories in the context of the times instead of trying to argue against them in their most extreme forms things are much more plausible.

Sure thats much more plausible. But it also removes the whole point of the story (judgement, redemption, etc.)

Nothing devine about a regional flood, they happen all the time.

JoshSP1985
01-11-2010, 06:28 AM
Sure thats much more plausible. But it also removes the whole point of the story (judgement, redemption, etc.)

Nothing devine about a regional flood, they happen all the time.

If that "regional" flood was prophesied to save a race of people it is, but yes you have a point.

triplewhammy
01-11-2010, 06:31 AM
Am I the only one that has seen the Noah's Ark found documentaries on TV? It has been foudn by several expeditions. It is now severed and partially buried in Mt. Ararat Turkey. It has been found. The real question is whether people will believe that it is Noah's Ark. BTW Bigkaz, being that it has been frozen for the vast majority of this time it is not decomposing at a very rapid rate. The wood samples of the ark that people have taken were gopher wood, whereas there are no gopher wood trees around Ararat for several hundred miles. How people accept this evidence is an example of the rich man and Lazurus.
Luke 16
19 There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores
21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25 But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27 He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29 Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

EXACTLY the verses I was going to post!

Belief in Christ is not an issue of the mind, it is an issue of the heart. Faith does not stem from intellectual mastery, but spiritual necessity.

mug
01-11-2010, 06:58 AM
EXACTLY the verses I was going to post!

Belief in Christ is not an issue of the mind, it is an issue of the heart. Faith does not stem from intellectual mastery, but spiritual necessity.

An organ that pumps blood around the body ?. I'm intrigued, do go on ! :)

Irezumi
01-11-2010, 07:00 AM
No.

Harbinger
01-11-2010, 07:10 AM
I'm glad it's not a necessity for me, you have fun with that.


EXACTLY the verses I was going to post!

Belief in Christ is not an issue of the mind, it is an issue of the heart. Faith does not stem from intellectual mastery, but spiritual necessity.


From what I've read on the subject of rhe Ark, a wooden only vessle of that size wouldn't be sea worthy. It would rip itself apart under it's own weight. Add to that a rolling sea and the weight of the cargo. Leads me to believe the Ark wasn't real.

pearljamfan
01-11-2010, 07:15 AM
How do people not see that Noah's arc is just a rip-off of several stories from other religions hundreds of years before it?

"A deluge myth or flood myth is a mythical story of a great flood sent by a deity or deities to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution. It is a widespread theme among many cultures, though it is perhaps best known in modern times through the biblical account of Noah's Ark, the Hindu Puranic story of Manu, through Deucalion in Greek mythology or Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

this, flood stories in the ancient world are one a penny

the euphrates river flooded every year and ancient texts tell of one massive storm where it rained for more than a week so the river burst its banks killing loads of people, destroying home, crops, livestock etc; one local king built a barge, gathered up some animals and survived the flood before running aground on a hilltop (sound similiar??)

mug
01-11-2010, 07:15 AM
I'm glad it's not a necessity for me, you have fun with that.




From what I've read on the subject of rhe Ark, a wooden only vessle of that size wouldn't be sea worthy. It would rip itself apart under it's own weight. Add to that a rolling sea and the weight of the cargo. Leads me to believe the Ark wasn't real.

As these facts became apparent the next logical step is to say "well of course the story of Noah's Ark is in fact a story, we knew this all along". Anything that is proved wrong by science gets downgraded to metaphorical from literal.

viper30j
01-11-2010, 07:27 AM
EXACTLY the verses I was going to post!

Belief in Christ is not an issue of the mind, it is an issue of the heart. Faith does not stem from intellectual mastery, but spiritual necessity.

The spiritual realm you describe doesn't even exist. Peace within your mind, with your surroundings, with nature, and an inner calmness could be called spirituality. But there is nothing supernatural about it

AKR
01-11-2010, 08:06 AM
http://i47.tinypic.com/aw3k44.jpg

Dummkopf
01-11-2010, 08:08 AM
It's right here you retards

http://www.sea-way.org/blog/Noah_ark1.JPG

CervixBuster
01-11-2010, 08:36 AM
I didn't read this thread, just the title alone.

I'm not sure what the existence of a god has to do with the finding of an ark. Completely unrelated. Nor does it substantiate the bible as 'the flood' crosses over to many other religious texts, too.

If anything, it would probably substantiate the fact that water levels rose, someone built a giant ass boat, and then water levels receded.

B. Roth
01-11-2010, 08:46 AM
I don't think it would make non-believers believe. They'd just say it was some random boat. There would really be no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Noah's ark.

CervixBuster
01-11-2010, 08:52 AM
I don't think it would make non-believers believe. They'd just say it was some random boat. There would really be no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Noah's ark.

prolly need to check license and registration for that

hulkman
01-11-2010, 10:27 AM
Belief in Christ is not an issue of the mind, it is an issue of the heart. Faith does not stem from intellectual mastery, but spiritual necessity.

that's cause you have to turn off the 'ole thinkin machine to buy such a load of crap when presented with good enough evidence to show how improbable that religions are true.