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View Full Version : Do you guys really UNDERSTAND where Kerry stands?



The Conqueror
04-23-2004, 01:03 PM
He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank.
He voted to kill every Aircraft Carrier laid down from 1988.
He voted to kill the Aegis anti-aircraft system.
He voted to kill the F-15 Strike Eagle.
He voted to kill the Block 60 F-16.
He voted to kill the P-3 Orion upgrade.
He voted to kill the B-1.
He voted to kill the B-2.
He voted to kill the Patriot anti-missile system.
He voted to kill the FA-18.
He voted to kill the F-117.
In short, he voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons system since 1988, to include the battle armor for our troops. With Kerry as president, our Army will be made up of naked men running around with sticks and clubs.
He also voted to kill all anti-terrorism activities of every agency of the U.S. Government and to cut the funding of the FBI by 60%, the CIA by 80% and NSA by 80%.
But then he voted to increase OUR funding for UN operations by 800%!!!

Is THIS a President YOU want???

Heavily Armed
04-23-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by The Conqueror
He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank.
He voted to kill every Aircraft Carrier laid down from 1988.
He voted to kill the Aegis anti-aircraft system.
He voted to kill the F-15 Strike Eagle.
He voted to kill the Block 60 F-16.
He voted to kill the P-3 Orion upgrade.
He voted to kill the B-1.
He voted to kill the B-2.
He voted to kill the Patriot anti-missile system.
He voted to kill the FA-18.
He voted to kill the F-117.
In short, he voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons system since 1988, to include the battle armor for our troops. With Kerry as president, our Army will be made up of naked men running around with sticks and clubs.
He also voted to kill all anti-terrorism activities of every agency of the U.S. Government and to cut the funding of the FBI by 60%, the CIA by 80% and NSA by 80%.
But then he voted to increase OUR funding for UN operations by 800%!!!

Is THIS a President YOU want???

Not me, but the North Koreans seem to be rather taken with him.

LordNeon
04-23-2004, 01:20 PM
More bulls@#t propoaganda. Most of what you accuse him of here relates not to a vote to "kill" any of those programs, but a vote against ONE bill - ONE - relating to funding. You can't back it up with quotes, for instance, indicating that John Kerry was opposed to more body armor for troops - because they don't exist.

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/info/index.php?category_id=1128
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=155

The Conqueror
04-23-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by LordNeon
More bulls@#t propoaganda. Most of what you accuse him of here relates not to a vote to "kill" any of those programs, but a vote against ONE bill - ONE - relating to funding. You can't back it up with quotes, for instance, indicating that John Kerry was opposed to more body armor for troops - because they don't exist.

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/info/index.php?category_id=1128
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=155

Why would any american defend Kerry? It's like living in a house in south-central LA with someone who wants to leave the doors unlocked and the windows open.

kmac12
04-23-2004, 02:09 PM
Kerry has had a record on cutting defense.

Yes, sometimes he was going along with the crowd in cutting some weapons and...

Yes, some republicans have cut defense in the past also. (But, this debate is between Bush and Kerry, not Kerry and other republicans)

BUT, Kerry has also gone out alone numerous times to cut defense and he was in the minority.

Ill post them again....

In 1991 Kerry voted to cut defense spending by 2 percent. Only 21 other senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated.

In 1991, Kerry voted to cut over $3 billion from defense and shift the funds to social programs. Only 27 senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.

In 1991, Senator Kerry also voted against the first Gulf War.

In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from defense. Republicans and Democrats alike successfully blocked this attempt to cut defense spending.

In 1993, Kerry introduced a plan to cut the number Of Navy submarines and their crews; reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force; terminate the Navy?s coastal mine-hunting ship program; force the retirement of 60,000 members of the armed forces in one year; and reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one. The plan was DOA.

In 1994, Kerry's amendment 1452 would have cut nearly $25 billion from defense over five years. It also would have sliced an additional $1 billion from 1994 intelligence funding. Seventy percent of democrats opposed this bill even T. Kennedy.

In 1995, Kerry voted to freeze defense spending for seven years, cutting over $34 billion from defense. Only 27 other senators voted with Kerry.

In 1996, Kerry introduced a bill to cut Defense Department funding by $6.5 billion. Kerry?s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote.

In 1996, Kerry voted yes on a fiscal 1996 budget resolution ? a defense freeze that would have frozen defense spending for the next seven years and transferred the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training. The resolution was rejected 28-71.

In 1999, he voted against deploying the National Missle Defense Act.

And of course, most recently, he voted against the $87B to further fund the Iraq war and rebuild even after he said that he would approve funding.

Reborn79
04-23-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by kmac12
Kerry has had a record on cutting defense.

Yes, sometimes he was going along with the crowd in cutting some weapons and...

Yes, some republicans have cut defense in the past also. (But, this debate is between Bush and Kerry, not Kerry and other republicans)

BUT, Kerry has also gone out alone numerous times to cut defense and he was in the minority.

Ill post them again....

In 1991 Kerry voted to cut defense spending by 2 percent. Only 21 other senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated.

In 1991, Kerry voted to cut over $3 billion from defense and shift the funds to social programs. Only 27 senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.

In 1991, Senator Kerry also voted against the first Gulf War.

In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from defense. Republicans and Democrats alike successfully blocked this attempt to cut defense spending.

In 1993, Kerry introduced a plan to cut the number Of Navy submarines and their crews; reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force; terminate the Navy?s coastal mine-hunting ship program; force the retirement of 60,000 members of the armed forces in one year; and reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one. The plan was DOA.

In 1994, Kerry's amendment 1452 would have cut nearly $25 billion from defense over five years. It also would have sliced an additional $1 billion from 1994 intelligence funding. Seventy percent of democrats opposed this bill even T. Kennedy.

In 1995, Kerry voted to freeze defense spending for seven years, cutting over $34 billion from defense. Only 27 other senators voted with Kerry.

In 1996, Kerry introduced a bill to cut Defense Department funding by $6.5 billion. Kerry?s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote.

In 1996, Kerry voted yes on a fiscal 1996 budget resolution ? a defense freeze that would have frozen defense spending for the next seven years and transferred the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training. The resolution was rejected 28-71.

In 1999, he voted against deploying the National Missle Defense Act.

And of course, most recently, he voted against the $87B to further fund the Iraq war and rebuild even after he said that he would approve funding.

Please post some links supporting these allegations.

LordNeon
04-23-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by kmac12
Kerry has had a record on cutting defense.



Taking votes out of context is meaningless. Let's see why.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=147



Ill post them again....
In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from defense. Republicans and Democrats alike successfully blocked this attempt to cut defense spending.

In 1993, Kerry introduced a plan to cut the number Of Navy submarines and their crews; reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force; terminate the Navy?s coastal mine-hunting ship program; force the retirement of 60,000 members of the armed forces in one year; and reduce the number of light
infantry units in the Army down to one. The plan was DOA.



"It is true as Republicans say that in 1993 (Bill Clinton's first year as President) Kerry specifically proposed cutting the size of the military, including reductions in numbers of submarines, jet fighters and soldiers. But what Republicans fail to mention is that it was a very broad measure aimed at cutting federal spending by $85 billion at a time when the federal deficit was roughly $300 billion. Kerry's measure -- the "Budget Deficit Reduction Act of 1993" -- targeted not only military spending but also would have eliminated federal subsidies for cotton, wool and mohair production, eliminated the superconducting super collider and the space station, and raised fees for grazing or mining on public land. That bill died without a hearing in the Senate Finance Committee."




In 1996, Kerry introduced a bill to cut Defense Department funding by $6.5 billion. Kerry?s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote.



"Republicans also point to a 1996 bill Kerry introduced to cut $6.5 billion from defense spending. What Kerry's critics fail to mention is that Kerry proposed to use the money to hire an additional 100,000 police officers (above the 100,000 President Clinton already was proposing to fund.) Kerry called it the Safer Streets Act of 1996."


Additionally ...

"Starting in 1997 Kerry voted for every regular Department of Defense appropriations bill and for every authorization bill as well."

Of course, that part will not make it into the RNC talking points.

kmac12
04-23-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by LordNeon
Taking votes out of context is meaningless. Let's see why.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=147



"It is true as Republicans say that in 1993 (Bill Clinton's first year as President) Kerry specifically proposed cutting the size of the military, including reductions in numbers of submarines, jet fighters and soldiers. But what Republicans fail to mention is that it was a very broad measure aimed at cutting federal spending by $85 billion at a time when the federal deficit was roughly $300 billion. Kerry's measure -- the "Budget Deficit Reduction Act of 1993" -- targeted not only military spending but also would have eliminated federal subsidies for cotton, wool and mohair production, eliminated the superconducting super collider and the space station, and raised fees for grazing or mining on public land. That bill died without a hearing in the Senate Finance Committee."



"Republicans also point to a 1996 bill Kerry introduced to cut $6.5 billion from defense spending. What Kerry's critics fail to mention is that Kerry proposed to use the money to hire an additional 100,000 police officers (above the 100,000 President Clinton already was proposing to fund.) Kerry called it the Safer Streets Act of 1996."


Additionally ...

"Starting in 1997 Kerry voted for every regular Department of Defense appropriations bill and for every authorization bill as well."

Of course, that part will not make it into the RNC talking points.

Again, you guys are saying that it was ok to cut defense as long as he was using the money for something else (like police). It still does not prove that he is stronger on defense then Bush. Period.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0304/133451.html

kmac12
04-23-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Reborn79
Please post some links supporting these allegations.

Sorry, I got them from numerous places. If you dispute any of them, then I will go find a link for you.

I assure you though that I didn't make them up.

kmac12
04-23-2004, 02:48 PM
Please, someone post something that will show that Kerry is stronger on defense than Bush.

LordNeon
04-23-2004, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by kmac12
Again, you guys are saying that it was ok to cut defense as long as he was using the money for something else (like police). It still does not prove that he is stronger on defense then Bush. Period.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0304/133451.html

"Stronger on defense" is meaningless. What makes one stronger on defense? It is measured by refusing to EVER deny the military any money for anything whatsoever, no matter what the national situation? Is one stronger on defense merely because one likes to use the military more often?

Nonsense. These bills that supposedly show Kerry is "weak on defense" have been taken entirely out of context. You are also ignoring all the bills involving defense appropriations that Kerry voted for over the past few decades, and cutting to the handful that support your point. You are ignoring his votes for many increases in defense spending over the last seven years and highligting votes from seven years before THAT as being somehow more significant.

BTW, if you don't know where your list is coming from, it's found in nearly the exact same form on the RNC's webpage.

kmac12
04-24-2004, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by LordNeon
"Stronger on defense" is meaningless. What makes one stronger on defense? It is measured by refusing to EVER deny the military any money for anything whatsoever, no matter what the national situation? Is one stronger on defense merely because one likes to use the military more often?

Nonsense. These bills that supposedly show Kerry is "weak on defense" have been taken entirely out of context. You are also ignoring all the bills involving defense appropriations that Kerry voted for over the past few decades, and cutting to the handful that support your point. You are ignoring his votes for many increases in defense spending over the last seven years and highligting votes from seven years before THAT as being somehow more significant.

My point is that he not only has cut defense along with other senators (rep or dem), he has gone out alone and tried to cut defense even when it was unpopular (it doesn't matter if it was to add 100,000 police).

He supported bills that cut defense and he was not even supported by the majority of his own party.

Ok, here is a challenge for you. Show me at least one bill, amendment or whatever that he supported that increased the defense budget and he was in the minority. That would show that he occasionally goes against the grain and increases defense.

I am not saying that they do not exist, I would just like to see some.


BTW, if you don't know where your list is coming from, it's found in nearly the exact same form on the RNC's webpage.

Yeah, I am sure that I got them from rep websites. I got them from a couple different ones, but I just couldn't remember which ones after I posted them.

Are you suprised that I got them from there? You know me better than that. ;)

Come on, you and Reborn79 post links to liberal websites all the time. Can I not do the same thing?