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Lynne
04-21-2004, 02:50 PM
sex slaves and lil' worker bees......hee hee hee hee heeeee...... OK, who I am foolin'? I'm one of those women who can't live without a man in my life :D.


Top Stories - AP


Mice Created With 2 Genetic Moms, No Dad

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By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science Writer

Just ahead of Mother's Day, scientists have found a way to cut dads out of the picture, at least among rodents: They have produced mice with two genetic moms — and no father. It is the first time the feat has been accomplished in mammals.

Scientists said the technique cannot be used on people, for reasons both technical and ethical. In fact, one of the mouse mothers was a mutant newborn, whose DNA had been altered to make it act like a male's contribution to an embryo.

But the new work sheds light on why people, mice and other mammals normally need a male's DNA for reproduction, and some experts say it also has implications for the idea of using stem cells to treat disease.

The feat is reported in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature by Tomohiro Kono of the Tokyo University of Agriculture in Japan, with colleagues there and in Korea.

They say they produced two mice, one of which grew to maturity and gave birth. Kono said this mouse, named Kaguya after a Japanese fairy tale character, appears healthy.

Some lizards and other animals reproduce with only maternal genes, but mammals do not.

Kono, in an e-mail, said the new technique might be useful with animals for agricultural and scientific purposes. When asked if he saw any reason to produce humans this way, he dismissed the question as "senseless."

Experts said ethical concerns and current technology would pose barriers to duplicating the technique in people. For one thing, scientists do not know how to create the precise DNA mutation in humans. Experts also noted that it took hundreds of eggs to produce just two mice and that the health risks are unknown.

LethalOnGuitarZ
04-21-2004, 03:24 PM
I think that sort of research is pathetic. WHY do they want to find ways of making children without males?

What'll ever happen to us males? :(

Pah, you'd never try to get us extinct, your lives would be too boring without the male speciman. ;)

honeybbqgrundle
04-21-2004, 03:40 PM
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if in 100 years humanity as we know it is gone. Everyone will probably be half or all machine just because they can. It sounds weird, but soon amputees are gonna get robotic limbs which are better than their previous ones, then other people are just gonna get them too. From there it'll just escalate. It might not happen of course, but it's entirely possible

SteakNPotatoes
04-21-2004, 04:36 PM
Oh crud, a baby being raised without any form of a father figure? They'll turn out as gay as Jimineye! :D

Ruthless4Life
04-21-2004, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Experts said ethical concerns and current technology would pose barriers to duplicating the technique in people. For one thing, scientists do not know how to create the precise DNA mutation in humans. Experts also noted that it took hundreds of eggs to produce just two mice and that the health risks are unknown.

Man will not become extinct.

lucubration
04-21-2004, 05:39 PM
Mouse With Two Mommies
Mammal Born Without Father; Could Women Do This Too?

By Joanna Schaffhausen


April 21 — Researchers have created a mouse born from all-female DNA, raising the question: If female mammals can reproduce on their own, will males become obsolete?

A few plants, insects and reptiles are capable of male-free reproduction in a process known as parthenogenesis, from the Greek meaning "virgin birth." Via parthenogenesis, a female's egg is able to grow into a new organism without any fertilization from the male.

But mammals generally require sexual reproduction that combines two sets of DNA — one copy from the mother and one from the father. Although male and female DNA are very similar, they have chemical signals that distinguish them and an embryo usually will not develop properly if it does not sense the presence of both.

Until now, that is. In order to create a mouse with all-female parentage, researchers at Japan's Tokyo University and South Korea's National University College of Medicine in Seoul, "tricked" the embryo into believing it contained both male and female DNA by knocking out the gene that marked one strand as "female." With the "female" gene removed, the embryo interpreted the second strand of female DNA as male DNA.

The mouse, named Kaguya, grew to healthy adulthood and now has offspring of her own conceived naturally with a male mouse. The findings were published in today's edition of the journal Nature

Men No Longer Needed?

So does all this mean males will go the way of the dinosaur? Not likely, experts say.

While it might be possible for two women to reproduce using these techniques, practical application would be extremely difficult.

"Sure, it's theoretically possible to get rid of men," quips David Magnus, an assistant professor of pediatrics and co-director of the Center of Bioethics at Stanford University in California. "With all the sperm saved up in sperm banks, we probably could get rid of them now."

But Magnus points out the technology to create a human Kaguya is a long way off and may not be possible at all.

"In reproductive technology, there is a big gap between animals and humans. For example, cloning a mouse is easy. But no one has yet cloned a primate or a human. We don't even know if it's possible."

However, experts do not rule out the possibility that a similar technique might be available to humans in the future. On major hurdle is to find a way to genetically alter a woman's egg without altering the woman herself.

"I can outline a protocol right now where it could work in theory," George Daley, an assistant professor of medicine and a leading stem cell researcher at Harvard University. "Are we there yet with the technology? No. But sure it could work."

So while the female-female DNA combination might appeal to lesbian couples seeking to have a child, the technology is not likely to be used for reproduction any time soon.

"I don't see this applicable to human assisted reproduction," says David Wininger, an assistant professor in the OB/GYN department and director of the Center for Reproductive Medicine at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C. "We wouldn't even know which genes to take out."

Also, while Kaguya appears healthy now, trouble may lurk down the road. Kaguya was one of only two mice out of 457 eggs to survive.

Rudolf Jaenisch, one of the founders of transgenic science and professor of biology at MIT explains, "This mouse is almost certainly not normal. It is just less abnormal than the ones who did not make it."

"We don't know the long-term effects of this technique," says Magnus. "Reproductive technology has grown so fast without much in the way of safety data. The first IVF baby ["test tube baby"] is only in her 20s. Who's to say what long-term effects our interventions might have on later life?"

Redefining Personhood

Creating embryos without fertilization may offer a way around some of the ethical concerns about embryonic stem cell research. If not for the genetic manipulation performed by Kaguya's creators, mammalian embryos created without fertilization die after a few days. "These embryos do not have the potential to become offspring," explains Wininger.

Wininger, who is working on creating human "embryos" without fertilization, sees this technique as a powerful research tool. "We are in the process of trying to isolate stem cells from these embryos," he says, adding that he hopes these specially-created stem cells will not have the same ethical issues that surround embryonic stem cells harvested from fertilized embryos.

At the very least, Magnus claims, the technology forces us to reconsider the definition of personhood. "These findings challenge key concepts about the definition of 'embryo.' Is every egg a potential person now? Does menstruation equal death?"

Currently, the government considers parthenogenesis to be a form of reproduction and therefore stem cells derived via this technique are subject to the same ban on federal funding as traditional stem cells. Institutions can only pursue research on stem cells derived from parthenogenesis using private funding.




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Kane Fan
04-22-2004, 12:30 PM
it botheres me that the effort of scientists and funds go to things like this when we've still got uncurable desieases out there
work on cancer leave this unimportant **** for later

I mean this study was as very useless...
it's like they did this to prove that if a female had male jeans (making it not entirely female, as it is partially male genetically) then she could donate the male part of genetics for a baby
yah, that's obvious thanks for spending however much money and time you did on that now, could you do something usefull

The Conqueror
04-22-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
sex slaves and lil' worker bees......hee hee hee hee heeeee...... .

:mad:

Lynne, I expected more from you, girl!

:D

LethalOnGuitarZ
04-22-2004, 02:20 PM
Overall the human race is trying to move too fast.

We're not sorting out today's problems, instead making newer ones. We should be working on cures for diseases, ending poverty and starvation, stopping crime, getting rid of murderous dictators etc.

Why we need to start on this BS I don't know. :mad:

The Kurgan
04-22-2004, 03:06 PM
What would women do without men to disappoint them?

lucubration
04-22-2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Kane Fan
it botheres me that the effort of scientists and funds go to things like this when we've still got uncurable desieases out there
work on cancer leave this unimportant **** for later

I mean this study was as very useless...
it's like they did this to prove that if a female had male jeans (making it not entirely female, as it is partially male genetically) then she could donate the male part of genetics for a baby
yah, that's obvious thanks for spending however much money and time you did on that now, could you do something usefull

The difference is pure science and applied science. Pure science need have no purpose really; you support applied science.

Different schools....

BIONIC MAN
04-22-2004, 04:37 PM
god has one better the worm its asexual -combo of both i guess the angels there no sexual or both i guess somebody elaborate

Lynne
04-23-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by a. americanus
I don't get it. It has nothing significant to do with either, really.

I submitted the thread here because of the possibility of controversy. If it really bothers you to distraction, ask a mod to move it to the Misc Section. :)

Lynne
04-23-2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by LethalOnGuitarZ
Overall the human race is trying to move too fast.

We're not sorting out today's problems, instead making newer ones. We should be working on cures for diseases, ending poverty and starvation, stopping crime, getting rid of murderous dictators etc.

Why we need to start on this BS I don't know. :mad:

Good point (s).

Lynne
04-23-2004, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by The Kurgan
What would women do without men to disappoint them?

Men do not disappoint......:(; but they're fun to aggravate:)

Lynne
04-23-2004, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by BIONIC MAN
god has one better the worm its asexual -combo of both i guess the angels there no sexual or both i guess somebody elaborate

I don't know if angels are hermaphorditic or not, but they procreated in Genesis. I guess the worms were doing what they always do :).

The Kurgan
04-23-2004, 12:05 PM
Just a thought- if God is asexual, then maybe he created Worms in his own image...

But, having read the Bible, God is (in the Christian faith) most likely a male... He's always referred to as He by people who have met him, and if the Bible is supposed to be the centre of Christianity, and it refers to him as he all the time, he must be male. To cap it off, how could God breed Zeus-style (well, in a slightly more dignified and respectable way... Slightly) with Mary to give birth to Heracles (or is it Jesus?)?

Which leads me onto another interesting point in Christian art- how Joeseph is always portrayed as an old man. I could guess some of the reasons, but as an atheist I can't really say for sure. Historically however, it would be unlikely for a relatively well-to-do artisan would be older than 30 when he got married... Also, you have to feel sorry for Joeseph, because in the Catholic version of Christianity Mary never consumated the marriage with him. Perhaps that's why he was old, because he had to die quickly so that he wouldn't be tempted into making the Virgin Mary into Mary.

Sorry for the deep thinking, but I had my Religious And Moral Education exam today, and the only thing in my head is religion, quotes and politics.

Lynne
04-23-2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by The Kurgan
Just a thought- if God is asexual, then maybe he created Worms in his own image...

But, having read the Bible, God is (in the Christian faith) most likely a male... He's always referred to as He by people who have met him, and if the Bible is supposed to be the centre of Christianity, and it refers to him as he all the time, he must be male. To cap it off, how could God breed Zeus-style (well, in a slightly more dignified and respectable way... Slightly) with Mary to give birth to Heracles (or is it Jesus?)?

Which leads me onto another interesting point in Christian art- how Joeseph is always portrayed as an old man. I could guess some of the reasons, but as an atheist I can't really say for sure. Historically however, it would be unlikely for a relatively well-to-do artisan would be older than 30 when he got married... Also, you have to feel sorry for Joeseph, because in the Catholic version of Christianity Mary never consumated the marriage with him. Perhaps that's why he was old, because he had to die quickly so that he wouldn't be tempted into making the Virgin Mary into Mary.

Sorry for the deep thinking, but I had my Religious And Moral Education exam today, and the only thing in my head is religion, quotes and politics.

Well, you have to understand the trinity first. Number one, Christians ARE monotheistic, but understanding the trinity will help you figure some of this out (or how Christians think :)). God, the Father is spirit; the Holy Spirit is spirit; Christ was spirit until he became incarnate. The trinity is three separate beings, but made of the same "essence"; ok, that is how they are one (if you pour water in a red glass, a blue glass, and green glass it contains the same material). Another analogy is the boiled egg analogy, shell, white, and yolk. You will hear some people say that the trinity is one person; that is a blasphemy. So, anyway, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are neither male nor female as they are not "created" beings; they are pure spirit. And Joseph did consummate his marriage with Mary. Jesus had brothers. James the disciple was one of Jesus' brothers.

Lynne
04-23-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by The Kurgan
Just a thought- if God is asexual, then maybe he created Worms in his own image...

But, having read the Bible, God is (in the Christian faith) most likely a male... He's always referred to as He by people who have met him, and if the Bible is supposed to be the centre of Christianity, and it refers to him as he all the time, he must be male. To cap it off, how could God breed Zeus-style (well, in a slightly more dignified and respectable way... Slightly) with Mary to give birth to Heracles (or is it Jesus?)?

Which leads me onto another interesting point in Christian art- how Joeseph is always portrayed as an old man. I could guess some of the reasons, but as an atheist I can't really say for sure. Historically however, it would be unlikely for a relatively well-to-do artisan would be older than 30 when he got married... Also, you have to feel sorry for Joeseph, because in the Catholic version of Christianity Mary never consumated the marriage with him. Perhaps that's why he was old, because he had to die quickly so that he wouldn't be tempted into making the Virgin Mary into Mary.

Sorry for the deep thinking, but I had my Religious And Moral Education exam today, and the only thing in my head is religion, quotes and politics.

Well, you have to understand the trinity first. Number one, Christians ARE monotheistic, but understanding the trinity will help you figure some of this out (or how Christians think :)). God, the Father is spirit; the Holy Spirit is spirit; Christ was spirit until he became incarnate. The trinity is three separate beings, but made of the same "essence"; ok, that is how they are one (if you pour water in a red glass, a blue glass, and green glass each glass will contain the same material). Another analogy is the boiled egg analogy, shell, white, and yolk. You will hear some people say that the trinity is one person; that is a blasphemy. So, anyway, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are neither male nor female as they are not "created" beings; they are pure spirit. And Joseph did consummate his marriage with Mary. Jesus had brothers. James the disciple was one of Jesus' brothers.

Woden
04-23-2004, 04:07 PM
I didn't read the article, but couldn't we just do the same thing with guy genes?

Regardless, even if women decided that men were not needed, you couldn't do anything about it. :)

JohnnyLaw
04-24-2004, 05:55 AM
if women keep pushing this "no man" **** and we're "better", they'll be back in the kitchen so fast it will make their heads spin.
We are stronger and more aggressive. We are being nice right now. Watch yourselves.

Lynne
04-24-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
if women keep pushing this "no man" **** and we're "better", they'll be back in the kitchen so fast it will make their heads spin.
We are stronger and more aggressive. We are being nice right now. Watch yourselves.

Hey Johnny Rotten,

Don't tell me to watch myself, you idgit. I'm no feminist, especially a femi-NAZI! In fact, I stay home to take care of and homeschool my daughter and I've taken a lot of flack for that from other women, and a few men! I even like being domestic; I like doing things for my husband and daughter. I dread having to go back into the work force to pay for my daughter's college in a few years....I'd rather be at home :(. And as far as men being stronger and aggressive, I guess that has worked for Islam hasn't it :mad:?

AnabolicBMX
04-24-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Hey Johnny Rotten,

Don't tell me to watch myself, you idgit. I'm no feminist, especially a femi-NAZI! In fact, I stay home to take care of and homeschool my daughter and I've taken a lot of flack for that from other women, and a few men! I even like being domestic; I like doing things for my husband and daughter. I dread having to go back into the work force to pay for my daughter's college in a few years....I'd rather be at home :(. And as far as men being stronger and aggressive, I guess that has worked for Islam hasn't it :mad:?


this post is the exact reason why men will never become obsolete.

Lynne
04-24-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by AnabolicBMX
this post is the exact reason why men will never become obsolete.

Huh????? ;)

JohnnyLaw
04-24-2004, 06:52 PM
HAHAHA calm down. I was being ignorant

The Kurgan
04-25-2004, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by Lynne
Well, you have to understand the trinity first. Number one, Christians ARE monotheistic, but understanding the trinity will help you figure some of this out (or how Christians think :)). God, the Father is spirit; the Holy Spirit is spirit; Christ was spirit until he became incarnate. The trinity is three separate beings, but made of the same "essence"; ok, that is how they are one (if you pour water in a red glass, a blue glass, and green glass each glass will contain the same material). Another analogy is the boiled egg analogy, shell, white, and yolk. You will hear some people say that the trinity is one person; that is a blasphemy. So, anyway, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are neither male nor female as they are not "created" beings; they are pure spirit. And Joseph did consummate his marriage with Mary. Jesus had brothers. James the disciple was one of Jesus' brothers.

Thanks :)

Lynne
04-25-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
HAHAHA calm down. I was being ignorant

:)

Lynne

Iron_Ike
04-25-2004, 01:33 PM
Instead of wasting time, money, and research on finding ways to create offspring with the same sex, how about trying to find cures for AIDS, Caner, and what not? No, let's take what we already can do and pervert it into a totally useless experiment. :rolleyes:

Lynne
04-25-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Iron_Ike
Instead of wasting time, money, and research on finding ways to create offspring with the same sex, how about trying to find cures for AIDS, Caner, and what not? No, let's take what we already can do and pervert it into a totally useless experiment. :rolleyes:

I suppose that much of this research is privately funded. Even so, if any of it's through universities (and you know it is to some degree), you can bet our tax dollars are going towards this kind of research. I agree with you 100%.

Lynne
04-26-2004, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by a. americanus
Lynn, do you have any sisters? :D

Just two stepsisters you wouldn't want :D.....I was almost literally Cinderella. I didn't think men wanted sweet little innocent women anymore. The few of us left are all taken ;).
Lynne

Lynne
04-26-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by a. americanus
Lynn, do you have any sisters? :D

Another crazy thing...I'm sure I will get blasted for staying home from some of the guys on this forum since they collectively think that women are after money. I happen to think my daughter and husband are more important than any money I could earn outside the home. I'm hanged if I do and hanged if I don't :(. Oh, well....too bad I guess :).

Kane Fan
04-27-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Hey Johnny Rotten,

Don't tell me to watch myself, you idgit. I'm no feminist, especially a femi-NAZI! In fact, I stay home to take care of and homeschool my daughter and I've taken a lot of flack for that from other women, and a few men! I even like being domestic; I like doing things for my husband and daughter. I dread having to go back into the work force to pay for my daughter's college in a few years....I'd rather be at home :(. And as far as men being stronger and aggressive, I guess that has worked for Islam hasn't it :mad:?

see that's the point
these so called feminists are bull**** con artists!
they say they support women
but they actually just want to support women as long as the women want what the feminists tell them to want
if the women want something different the femenists are mean to them!
femenists want women to stop being mens bitches, so they can be femenists' bitches!
that's why I don't like them

Kane Fan
04-27-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Just two stepsisters you wouldn't want :D.....I was almost literally Cinderella. I didn't think men wanted sweet little innocent women anymore. The few of us left are all taken ;).
Lynne

I like sweet innocent women
the problem is women all stoped being nice to men
and society in general stopped caring about us to
it's like every aspect of American society is so bent on making women believe they can do whatever they want that they forgot to help men out some to
and women stopped being nice to us on top of that!
I miss women being nice to men
I didn't really see a lot of it growing up in the 80's but I saw a little and I liked it
don't see that **** anymore tho...

Lynne
04-28-2004, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Kane Fan
I like sweet innocent women
the problem is women all stoped being nice to men
and society in general stopped caring about us to
it's like every aspect of American society is so bent on making women believe they can do whatever they want that they forgot to help men out some to
and women stopped being nice to us on top of that!
I miss women being nice to men
I didn't really see a lot of it growing up in the 80's but I saw a little and I liked it
don't see that **** anymore tho...

The world is turned upside down......and I don't get much support for being who I am and doing what I am doing. Even my in-laws and my stepfather were trying to get me to go back to work instead of staying home to raise my daughter. I mean they are in their 70's and 80's, so you'd think they'd have old-fashioned values. It IS hard financially; we aren't saving anything, but we had to look at what's important. Sometimes I start feeling guilty because I'm not bringing any money in. I think "Can I homeschool and run a business, too?" But where is the guilt coming from? Outside pressure. Not from my husband! And I'm nice to men; I genuinely like men. I like having male friends - always have had male friends. :)