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Lynne
04-21-2004, 01:51 PM
Some Christians practice glossolalia (the phenomenon of speaking in tongues). I'm not sure if it is for today or not. The confusion comes over a verse in the New Testament: "When the perfect comes, tongues and prophesying will cease." Christians cannot agree on who or what the perfect is. Non-Charismatic Christians will say that the perfect is the completed canon of the New Testament, that God's Word is finished, "perfect," therefore, speaking in tongues is unnecessary. Other Christians say that the "Perfect" is Jesus Christ and that verse refers to Christ's return. It is interesting that other religions practice glossolalia, too, including some Satanists :D.

I'm Christian, but cannot come to a decision on this issue. One thing for sure, I know it is not mandatory as evidence of being born-again.

bts327
04-21-2004, 02:02 PM
I caught myself speaking in tongues once, then I remembered I had eaten a mushroom. It was very exhilarating and relaxing. Not sure if this is the same thing as what you are talking about. Talking in tongues definetely gets my stamp of approval, so yes, I think.

Lynne
04-21-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by bts327
I caught myself speaking in tongues once, then I remembered I had eaten a mushroom. It was very exhilarating and relaxing. Not sure if this is the same thing as what you are talking about. Talking in tongues definetely gets my stamp of approval, so yes, I think.

Honestly, that is the same experience people have when they speak in "prayer" tongues. And you didn't even vote :(.

bts327
04-21-2004, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Honestly, that is the same experience people have when they speak in "prayer" tongues. And you didn't even vote :(.



Sorry....fixed. :D

Lynne
04-21-2004, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by bts327
Sorry....fixed. :D

Thanks and can I have some mushrooms? Wait .... that may be against church rules. Hmmm....I don't attend church anymore :).

AnabolicBMX
04-21-2004, 02:19 PM
what exactly is speaking in tongues? anyone can spout jibberish, so what's the difference?

CITADEL
04-21-2004, 02:29 PM
I've heard a lady talk in tounges before. Not meaning to be racist or anything, but why does it seem only black people speak in tounges. I've heard of many people in black churches do it but I've never seen it happen before to a white person.

Lynne
04-21-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by AnabolicBMX
what exactly is speaking in tongues? anyone can spout jibberish, so what's the difference?

I believe anyone can spout jibberish, too. If tongues were for today, it would be considered a spiritual gift. I have seen people in church get up and prophesy in tongues. Well, someone else is supposed to interpret. Every time I've seen it happen, the person interpreted themself (which is unbiblical). One time this African dude stood up and started speaking during a worship service. I thought he sounded like he was speaking a true language (not the usual "dut dut maga naga blah mooshken" stuff :D). Then, he began interpreting himself "My children, my children....the Lord is returning soon....." It sounded like such hogwash. Later, I heard him speaking and he was African! He probably had spoken in his native language. Sheesh. There's the prayer language which is supposed to build you up spiritually and then there's the public speaking in tongues. During biblical times, the public speaking in tongues were actual foreign languages so that people could understand the gospel in their own language. I'm not saying I don't believe in it for today, I've just seen it abused so much.

bts327
04-21-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Thanks and can I have some mushrooms? Wait .... that may be against church rules. Hmmm....I don't attend church anymore :).

Seek and ye shall find.:)

Those with great horns and simple tongues are the keepers of the faith:D

Lynne
04-21-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by bts327
Seek and ye shall find.:)

Those with great horns and simple tongues are the keepers of the faith:D

Are you inferring that I'm blonde? :)

bts327
04-21-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Are you inferring that I'm blonde? :)

Not at all. I was inferring that I'm blonde.:D

Heavily Armed
04-21-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Lynne
Some Christians practice glossolalia (the phenomenon of speaking in tongues). I'm not sure if it is for today or not. The confusion comes over a verse in the New Testament: "When the perfect comes, tongues and prophesying will cease." Christians cannot agree on who or what the perfect is. Non-Charismatic Christians will say that the perfect is the completed canon of the New Testament, that God's Word is finished, "perfect," therefore, speaking in tongues is unnecessary. Other Christians say that the "Perfect" is Jesus Christ and that verse refers to Christ's return. It is interesting that other religions practice glossolalia, too, including some Satanists :D.

I'm Christian, but cannot come to a decision on this issue. One thing for sure, I know it is not mandatory as evidence of being born-again.

Speaking in tongues, the whole charismatic thing, isn't for me. I believe most 'speaking in tongues" instances are more the result of an emotional fervor than divine revelation. Tongues, in my opinion, would be a recognized language being spoken by someone heretofore unfamiliar with the language they're speaking, someone else being able to interpret it. Do some legitimate instances occur? Certainly possible. Nothing against those who worship this way, it's just not for me.

matpal
04-22-2004, 09:18 AM
Paul lets us know very clearly that tongues have no place in church without poper interpretation.

Lynne
04-23-2004, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
I've heard a lady talk in tounges before. Not meaning to be racist or anything, but why does it seem only black people speak in tounges. I've heard of many people in black churches do it but I've never seen it happen before to a white person.

Only black people speaking in tongues????Sheesh. Where have you been? Attend any Assembly of God church or a true Pentecostal church (where the women do not wear makeup nor jewelry, no pants :)) and I guarantee you will hear people speaking in tongues. If you attend a Baptist, Church of Christ, or Presbyterian denomination, you won't experience this. Also, there are some charismatic Catholic and Episcopalian sects as well. And since you live in SC, you are more likely to witness tongues-speaking. Before anyone jumps all over me for saying that (I'm from the south as well), it does seem to be more of a cultural thing although the first time I witnessed it was in Washington state....

Lynne
04-23-2004, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by matpal
Paul lets us know very clearly that tongues have no place in church without poper interpretation.

Exactly. I suppose prayer language COULD be an exception, except I had two friends attend an Assembly of God church and the whole congregation was speaking in tongues during prayer (Sunday morning worship service). My two friends thought they were nuts and never went back. Paul warned against this very same thing. When 100's of other people are going "blotten frisken mooten gluten," I can't even concentrate on my own prayers. Something is wrong there....but I'd prefer that to the funeral-like atmosphere of a Baptist service with the one organ and one piano. I suppose we could say the Baptist service is more reverant, but I really don't believe that. I prefer a full band with drums, electric guitars, etc., so I can clap and have a good time. Oh, so self-indulgent....not....Psalm 150 says to "Bang the cymbals." :)

Quantum_Man
04-23-2004, 08:00 AM
Well not all Baptist churches are purely only one piano and one organ Lynne. ;) I'm Baptist and I play my acoustic electric guitar every Sunday, and we have a drummer, bass, lead electric guitar, as well as a piano and an organ for when we do the old hymns. ANyway..

I believe that people CAN speak in tongues at this day and age. However there absolutely MUST be an interpretter right after, otherwise it's not substantiated.

Lynne
04-23-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Quantum_Man
Well not all Baptist churches are purely only one piano and one organ Lynne. ;) I'm Baptist and I play my acoustic electric guitar every Sunday, and we have a drummer, bass, lead electric guitar, as well as a piano and an organ for when we do the old hymns. ANyway..

I believe that people CAN speak in tongues at this day and age. However there absolutely MUST be an interpretter right after, otherwise it's not substantiated.

I was in one Baptist church that was a little more contemporary; it was a Conservative Baptist Church of America (CBA) on the West Coast. I'm grieving because I miss the people there. They were truly loving and normal. I haven't attended church in about three years now (except for a few sporadic visits to some other churches). I'm glad you get to play your guitar in that Baptist church (must not be a GARBC!).

Psaturn
04-24-2004, 12:20 PM
Well, not only black and white do the Glossolalia thing but so does Asians !!!

And yes, it is NOT essential to being born again to have glossolalia.

But I find it is quite essential for growth and survival in the world as a disciple and follower of Jesus.

I do speak several languages myself acquired through natural means: Chinese, Spanish, French and English. Glossolalia is a spiritual language acquired through a spiritual mean and I can connect my spirit with Ruach Hadesh through that language.

Remember, it is a language.

Once when the perfect comes, in which we ALL will be speaking the same language and not longer have the curse of the Tower of Babel, THEN we do NOT need the glossolalia !!!

Lynne
04-24-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Psaturn
Well, not only black and white do the Glossolalia thing but so does Asians !!!

And yes, it is NOT essential to being born again to have glossolalia.

But I find it is quite essential for growth and survival in the world as a disciple and follower of Jesus.

I do speak several languages myself acquired through natural means: Chinese, Spanish, French and English. Glossolalia is a spiritual language acquired through a spiritual mean and I can connect my spirit with Ruach Hadesh through that language.

Remember, it is a language.

Once when the perfect comes, in which we ALL will be speaking the same language and not longer have the curse of the Tower of Babel, THEN we do NOT need the glossolalia !!!

Hey Psaturn,

Interesting perspective you have. Ruach Hadesh sounds familiar. What does that mean?????

Jcfreak_02
04-24-2004, 09:45 PM
What scripture is that in reference to. The one I am mainly thinking of is Romans 12, whereas it describes the different spiritual gifts and encourages the use of them. Concerning speaking in tongues it said there should be someone to translate. I think that if authentic speaking in tongues is to occur then there must be someone to translate, as far as saying your not really a Christian unless you speak in tongues, I find that unfounded and as ridiculous as saying that "your not a Christian unless you are a pastor".

Quantum_Man
04-24-2004, 09:54 PM
I concur.

Psaturn
04-25-2004, 10:17 PM
Ruach Hadesh means Holy Spirit in Hebrew...

and I do think Christianity is BEYOND lifestyle...

when people say lifestyle... I am thinking like the gay lifestyle, the grunge lifestyle, the bohemian lifestyle, the rural lifestyle, the urban lifestyle...and when you add Christian lifestyle to it... sounds superficial to me ...

I think Christianity is more than that: IT IS LIFE.

For we are partaking from the Tree of Life.

Jesus said He came to give us ABUNDANT LIFE. Not a lifestyle.

Quantum_Man
04-25-2004, 10:58 PM
You're just playing around with semantics here. If you think lifestyle means one thing like the examples you gave, that's fine. But that's not the end all only definition. Lifestyle is just a word, no more and no less. It's the meaning we ourselves attach to it that matters. I think living the Christian lifestyle can be the same thing as living the Christian life, or even running the race. ;)

Jcfreak_02
04-26-2004, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Psaturn
Ruach Hadesh means Holy Spirit in Hebrew...

and I do think Christianity is BEYOND lifestyle...

when people say lifestyle... I am thinking like the gay lifestyle, the grunge lifestyle, the bohemian lifestyle, the rural lifestyle, the urban lifestyle...and when you add Christian lifestyle to it... sounds superficial to me ...

I think Christianity is more than that: IT IS LIFE.

For we are partaking from the Tree of Life.

Jesus said He came to give us ABUNDANT LIFE. Not a lifestyle. Truth to that as well. The point of that statement is to remind/point out/ rebuke/ people to know that it is more than just a Sunday thing that you do once a week. It is something that ought to impact every aspect of your life. It may get revised some time in the near future too :D

Psaturn
04-26-2004, 10:17 PM
1Cor. 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Cor. 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Cor. 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Cor. 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


1Cor. 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Cor. 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1Cor. 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

1Cor. 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Cor. 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


1Cor. 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Cor. 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Cor. 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

1Cor. 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

enjoyincubus
04-27-2004, 12:34 AM
back when tounges was a genuine spirtual gift it was not gibberish like most believe, but someone speaking a language in which they have never known. it was created in order to be a sign of the impending fifth cycle of disipline for israel. all forms of tounges ceased in 70 a.d., when the fifth cycle of disipline occured and the jews were driven out of their homeland. theres really more to it than this, but thats pretty much the short version.


1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. (NAS)

THX 138
04-27-2004, 05:41 AM
I belive in Orthodox Christianity since its the original Christian Chruch with no reformations, protestations, or vaticans ... ;)

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Orthodox+Christianity

Psaturn
04-28-2004, 06:58 AM
To enjoyincubus, quoting that Scripture, it says that knowledge will be done away...I guess that means you stopped doing Bible Studies, stopped listening to teachers, stopped all kinds of schooling whether it is secular or religious or spiritual, hey let's stretch further !! You are not longer listening to the news !! That is acquiring knowledge !!.

I am curious why you picked the name enjoy incubus. I guess you are aware incubus is a name of a spirit. And it is not of God.

Anyhow, Apostle Paul did say DO NOT forbid speaking of tongues.

Lynne
04-28-2004, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by THX 138
I belive in Orthodox Christianity since its the original Christian Chruch with no reformations, protestations, or vaticans ... ;)

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Orthodox+Christianity

Interesting. Historically, Eastern Orthodox proves to the oldest Christian church. Now, baptists will tell you they are the original church and so on :). But historically, the Byzantine church IS the oldest. There are some Russian and Greek orthodox churches near me, within 20 minutes. I have a problem with kissing icons though and some other things.....

Lynne

Psaturn
04-28-2004, 08:34 AM
How about the Egyptian and Ethiopian Coptic Church ? They go waaaay back. Their growth is inhibited by the Muslim governments.

Well if we are going to play who is the oldest, I propose that the Messianic Judaism IS the oldest Church.

As you know, the Apostles and the first Church was all Jewish and they practiced Judaism. They had synagogues and they had rabbis and leaders and deacons and prophets...

It was when the faith was adopted by the gentiles that we got away from the Jewish practices.

Still, there is a sizeable Messianic Jewish congregations all over the world and even in Israel.

And guess what ? Some do speak Glossolalia like their predecessors back in the first century.

And it was the evidence of the speaking of the Glossolalia that the first gentiles was accepted into the Church !!! Remember Peter and the Centurion and his family? They manifested Glossolalia and the believers were shocked !!! These gentiles uncircumcised people have been touched by the same Spirit as they got on the Day of Pentecost !!!

Mess973
03-09-2010, 06:26 PM
I believe anyone can spout jibberish, too. If tongues were for today, it would be considered a spiritual gift. I have seen people in church get up and prophesy in tongues. Well, someone else is supposed to interpret. Every time I've seen it happen, the person interpreted themself (which is unbiblical). One time this African dude stood up and started speaking during a worship service. I thought he sounded like he was speaking a true language (not the usual "dut dut maga naga blah mooshken" stuff :D). Then, he began interpreting himself "My children, my children....the Lord is returning soon....." It sounded like such hogwash. Later, I heard him speaking and he was African! He probably had spoken in his native language. Sheesh. There's the prayer language which is supposed to build you up spiritually and then there's the public speaking in tongues. During biblical times, the public speaking in tongues were actual foreign languages so that people could understand the gospel in their own language. I'm not saying I don't believe in it for today, I've just seen it abused so much.

I have seen / heard people speek in tongues. But none of them have been what I would call biblical at all. You are correct someone else is supposed to interpret what is being said. We have talked with our Pastor on this topic in the past and he said there are way to test the tongue. He told of a time that he had talked with a couple that knew how to do this. They told about a couple that spoke in tongues and when tested they found that the tongue that was being used was a demonic tongue.
Some denominations teach that unless you speake in tongues you are not filled with the Holy spirit and therefore by what they are tought they are not saved. This creates a desire that builds inside them and gets them to a point of the want being more than the need, opening themselves up to the demonic tongue. In other words those people were seeking the gift and not the giver (Christ).
I personaly have never spoke in tongues, but I can say without a doubt in my mind I have felt the Holy Spirit move in me multiple times. I have also seen the Spirit move in many of the youth at our church. It is a very cool thing to see. At first they arent sure what is going on, most just cry and they arent for sure of why they are. Some say they feel like they are going to burst, this is also how I felt the first time (havent been the same since). Each person is different though. With the multiple things I have seen and been a part of no one will ever prove to me God is not real. Sorry I got running on a bit away from your quote. I agree with you, it is abused and to a point it makes none christians look at christians in the wrong way and could push some away.
1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

neonhypoxia
03-09-2010, 06:38 PM
Strong bump. For a little science on the subject:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6371700

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~tim/introframe/tongues.pdf

Enjoy.

burnedfish
03-09-2010, 08:49 PM
Strong bump. For a little science on the subject:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6371700

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~tim/introframe/tongues.pdf

Enjoy.

interesting articles. Here is an article that summarizes the findings of the U. of Penn. study:

Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who “Speak in Tongues”
First Neuroimaging Examination of Participants Practicing Glossolalia Shows Decreased Cerebral Activity, Penn Study Shows

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia.htm

Here are some abstracts of other research papers regarding glossolalia:

Glossolalia and altered states of consciousness in two New Zealand religious movements.
By: Kavan, Heather. Journal of Contemporary Religion, May2004, Vol. 19 Issue 2, p171-184, 14p; Abstract: This article examines the prevalence of altered states of consciousness among Christian tongue speakers and compares it to experiences of glossolalia among meditators in a yoga-based purificatory group called the Golden Light. The article is based on close interaction and interviews with participants over an eight-year period. The results showed that, by self-report, most Pentecostals and Charismatics did not experience altered states except during the baptism of the Spirit and that those who did constructed a meaning for their glossolalia. In contrast, all of the meditators described frequent intense altered states, of which speaking in tongues was an occasional manifestation. I suggest that there are two types of glossolalia--spontaneous glossolalia and context-dependent glossolalia--and that the former is more likely to occur in groups that are radical, experiential, and charismatically led. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]; (AN 13310216)

Glossolalia and Temperature Change in the Right and Left Cerebral Hemispheres.
By: Philipchalk, Ron; Mueller, Dieter. International Journal for the Psychology of Religion, 2000, Vol. 10 Issue 3, p181-185, 5p, 1 Graph; Abstract: A sophisticated infrared camera measured temperature changes presumed to be related to activation of either the right or left brain hemispheres. Measurements were taken before and after participants spoke in tongues and before and after they read aloud. Results indicated increasing activation of the right hemisphere relative to the left after speaking in tongues and the opposite relation after reading aloud. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]; (AN 3592374)

INTERPRETING CHARISMATIC EXPERIENCE: HYPNOSIS, ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT?
By: Cartledge, Mark J.. Journal of Pentecostal Theology, Oct98, Issue 13, p117, 16p; Abstract: Discusses a philosophical and theological approach to assessing the charismatic experience in the Toronto Blessing in the light of hypnotic theory. Comparison of charismatic gatherings and hypnotic techniques; Discussion on John Kildahl's theory of glossolalia; Factors that triggered an altered state of consciousness during the Toronto Blessing.; (AN 5600487)

Personality and Glossolalia: A Study Among Male Evangelical Clergy.
By: Francis, Leslie J.; Robbins, Mandy. Pastoral Psychology, May2003, Vol. 51 Issue 5, p391-396, 6p, 2 Charts; Abstract: A sample of 991 male clergy affiliated with the Evangelical Alliance in the United Kingdom completed the short-form Revised Eysenck Personality Questionnaire, together with a question regarding the practice of glossolalia. The data demonstrated that glossolalia was correlated positively with extraversion, correlated negatively with neuroticism, and unrelated to psychoticism. Glossolalia was associated with stable extraversion, and contrary to some theories, completely unrelated to psychopathology. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]; (AN 10017641)

PERSONALITY CORRELATES OF CONVENTIONAL AND UNCONVENTIONAL GLOSSOLALIA.
By: Smith, Daniel S.; Fleck, J. Roland. Journal of Social Psychology, Aug81, Vol. 114 Issue 2, p209, 9p; Abstract: An investigation was made of the personality characteristics of Christians who had been divided along two bipolar dimensions: glossolalia-nonglossolalia, and conventional-unconventional. There was homogeneity among the groups with respect to age, sex, sample size, and socioeconomic status. One hundred and sixty-one men and women from several religious groups were administered the MMPI, the Shipley Institute of Living Scale, and a demographic questionnaire constructed by the authors. The results suggest glossolalics are more anxious but less neurotic than nonglossolalics; glossolalics tend to externalize anxiety into physical and vocal behavior, while nonglossolalics tend to internalize anxiety into somatic and depressive symptomatology; nonglossolalics tend to be more intelligent and dependent than glossolalics, while the latter have experienced more personal tragedy. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]; (AN 5390006)

Religious Glossolalia: A Longitudinal Study of Personality Changes.
By: Lovekin, Adams; Malony, H. Newton. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, Dec77, Vol. 16 Issue 4, p383, 11p, 5 Charts; Abstract: Heretofore there have been no published studies on personality changes resulting from glossolalia which included assessment prior to the experience. This research attempted to study the effects of this phenomenon by measuring persons in Life in the Spirit on personality and attitudinal variables pre, post, and three months after the seminar. Persons who became glossolalic were compared to those who were already glossolalic and those who did not become glossolalic. No one of the groups was psychopathological at pre-testing time. Although persons who did not become glossolalic were higher in depression, hostility, and anxiety at the beginning of the seminar, all groups were similar at the time of follow-up. All persons changed in the direction of personality integration. However, those who became glossolalic did not change more than those who did. The results were interpreted primarily as a function of attending the seminar rather than of the glossolalic experience. The use of appropriate controls for alternative experience, sex, and ethnic background were suggested for future research. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]; (AN 4897500)

If anyone would like the full articles, I can try to get them to you, they are in pdf format.