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aserecuba
04-17-2004, 02:22 PM
those israelis dont play around. they just killed the hamas leader. wonder who will be man enough to take the leadership now.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040417/ap_on_re_mi_ea/gaza_explosion

nitr0x
04-17-2004, 02:32 PM
politics and religion forum


its your friend

dillon1111
04-17-2004, 02:37 PM
armageddon!! i honestly think the end of the world is near. yeah the isrealis have one of the best inteligence/military skills in the world. there is some crazy **** in isreals defense!!!!!

JohnnyLaw
04-17-2004, 02:53 PM
http://www.machoman.com/

Armageddon? You dont know the half. Go hear and listen to his crazy rap skills.

Jimineye
04-17-2004, 02:58 PM
dun dun dun Another one bites the dust Hey Hey, another one bites, another bites, another one bites the dust. :D

Reborn79
04-17-2004, 04:10 PM
Yet one more step away from peace. Good job, Israel.


Add the fact that Bush essentially sided with israel against palestine a few days ago, it looks like there will be no peace at least until January, when the Kerry administration moves in :).

JohnnyLaw
04-17-2004, 04:16 PM
yawn you are truly a joke. Why then will their be peace? Oh thats right- you equate peace with the destruction of the Jewish state. Right. Not Peace in Israel. Pieces of Israel.

aserecuba
04-17-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
yawn you are truly a joke. Why then will their be peace? Oh thats right- you equate peace with the destruction of the Jewish state. Right. Not Peace in Israel. Pieces of Israel.

bump

FatFat Bastard
04-17-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Reborn79
Yet one more step away from peace. Good job, Israel.


Add the fact that Bush essentially sided with israel against palestine a few days ago, it looks like there will be no peace at least until January, when the Kerry administration moves in :).

ohh
peace process

Hamas was a very freindly peace loving organization
Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi was a hamas terrorist
he is not old
he was not leaving a mosque
it was a clean hit
what is everyone crying about
Israel is pulling out of GAZA withing the next few years.

Reborn79
04-17-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by FatFat Bastard
ohh
peace process

Hamas was a very freindly peace loving organization
Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi was a hamas terrorist
he is not old
he was not leaving a mosque
it was a clean hit
what is everyone crying about
Israel is pulling out of GAZA withing the next few years.

I never said Hamas was innocent. They are guilty and the organization should be shut down. Going about it THIS way, however, only increases hatred towards the U.S. and Israel.

And as for Israel, they went back on their initial plan to pull out entirely from the West Bank. Now they are going to leave certain secured settlements and will not allows Palestinian refugees into their country, deviating from the initial 'road map to peace'.

It is understandable that Israel wants to change the plan, however they should make attempts at re-newing peace talks with the Palestinian leadership as opposed to simply acting.

FatFat Bastard
04-17-2004, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Reborn79
I never said Hamas was innocent. They are guilty and the organization should be shut down. Going about it THIS way, however, only increases hatred towards the U.S. and Israel.

And as for Israel, they went back on their initial plan to pull out entirely from the West Bank. Now they are going to leave certain secured settlements and will not allows Palestinian refugees into their country, deviating from the initial 'road map to peace'.

It is understandable that Israel wants to change the plan, however they should make attempts at re-newing peace talks with the Palestinian leadership as opposed to simply acting.

shut down by who?
who in the Arab world have the balls to go against HAMAS? give me one name....
shut down yea OK...
they have about 350000 supporters in GAZA, If the was an alternative to such organization then maybe, but lets be realistic, shuting down is not really an option.
Increases hatred i don't think so
those who hate USA and Israel will do so regardless of what hamas leader dies in GAZA.. and you know this..
Once you hate something or someone it makes no difference what Israel does. good or bad.

And as for Israel, they went back on their initial plan to pull out entirely from the West Bank.

Barak offered 98% of the west bank back,
Arafat said no
so Israel assumes that they offered to much.

Palestinian leadership? There is no good leadership in the arab world! and the palestinian leadership is even worse.

If Arafat would have taken the offer hamas and the palestians would have their own state by now

drags
04-17-2004, 08:47 PM
its just going to be a matter of time before the palestinian people say "we've had enough" and rise up. Isreal just can't keep on killing Palestinian leaders because one day they will get really pissed off and then the Isreali's will regret it.

JigaroKagan
04-17-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by drags
its just going to be a matter of time before the palestinian people say "we've had enough" and rise up. Isreal just can't keep on killing Palestinian leaders because one day they will get really pissed off and then the Isreali's will regret it.

How will they regret it?

drags
04-17-2004, 08:53 PM
When they lose control of Isreal and it becomes home to the arab army.
I know what your thinking.... it probably won't even happen in our life times but the whole arab world has a huge hatred towards Isreal.

FatFat Bastard
04-17-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by drags
When they lose control of Isreal and it becomes home to the arab army.
I know what your thinking.... it probably won't even happen in our life times but the whole arab world has a huge hatred towards Isreal.

maximum that can really hapen is that
the whole middle east will become a parking lot.
due to a minor nuclear exchange.


Home to an arab army?
what ARAB ARMY?
have you ever read anything about this conflict before?

JigaroKagan
04-17-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by drags
When they lose control of Isreal and it becomes home to the arab army.
I know what your thinking.... it probably won't even happen in our life times but the whole arab world has a huge hatred towards Isreal.

The Palestenians will only dig their grave should they pursue a massive unilateral action against Israel. Not only that, but Israel has consistently shown that it's military capacity far exceeds that of the arab nations surrounding it. The war of 1948 and the Six Day War come to mind.

Jimineye
04-17-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by drags
When they lose control of Isreal and it becomes home to the arab army.
I know what your thinking.... it probably won't even happen in our life times but the whole arab world has a huge hatred towards Isreal.


Do you not know what happened when the Arab countries went to war against Israel. Not only did Israel kick their ass, but Israel took their land too. The Arab armies put simply are pathetic.

JigaroKagan
04-17-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Jimineye
Do you not know what happened when the Arab countries went to war against Israel. Not only did Israel kick their ass, but Israel took their land too. The Arab armies put simply are pathetic.

Oooh, got there first. :cool:

supergarr
04-17-2004, 09:27 PM
kill the terrorists

irpker
04-17-2004, 09:57 PM
Israel has nukes. If there was a serious threat, I'm sure they wouldn't mind using them, especially if Arab nations were trying push them into the sea like they did fifty million times already.

enjoyincubus
04-17-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by drags
When they lose control of Isreal and it becomes home to the arab army.
I know what your thinking.... it probably won't even happen in our life times but the whole arab world has a huge hatred towards Isreal.


finally.....we see what the real motivation behind these leftists is.

aserecuba
04-17-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by enjoyincubus
finally.....we see what the real motivation behind these leftists.
bump

dave22
04-18-2004, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by drags
its just going to be a matter of time before the palestinian people say "we've had enough" and rise up. Isreal just can't keep on killing Palestinian leaders because one day they will get really pissed off and then the Isreali's will regret it.

LMAO!!!!! You're living in a fantasy world you know that??

Does the war of 48, 56, 67, and 73 come to mind?? All of those wars, the Arabs tried to literally wipe Israel off the face of the map, and lost every single time. Israel also has nukes, so I think that they'll be around for a long time.

Saying that one day the Palestinians will rise up, and Israel will regret it, is just as stupid as, what do you Austrailians call the Aboriginies?? Oh yeah, Abos, well one day the Abos will rise up, and you people will be sorry. Sounds stupid right??

TranceNRG
04-18-2004, 01:27 AM
it's very clear, that this lunatic Sharon has no plan for peace.
of course same with the Hamas faction

I find it bull****, people thinkin' Israel's doing her share to bring peace.

neither side is trying

Starsky
04-18-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Reborn79
I never said Hamas was innocent. They are guilty and the organization should be shut down. Going about it THIS way, however, only increases hatred towards the U.S. and Israel.



The hatred of Israel by the Palestinians has already waxed and is still waxing. There is an ingrained and large percentage of Palestinians who are dedicated to pushing Free Israel into the sea, and establishing an Islamic state in its place.


You do not understand how terror operations work, if you think Hamas can simply retaliate with more "zeal" then before, based only on their hatred. Hamas has always been motivated by hatred. If you recall, after the pied-piped of kiddy terrorism, Shiekh Yassin was killed, Hamas vowed to "open up the Gates of Hell(interesting term...sounds like satanists)". Did you notice massive retaliation within the next couple weeks? No.


So in short, the hatred is already at the max and his been at the max. The only difference is Hamas is running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

Starsky
04-18-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
it's very clear, that this lunatic Sharon has no plan for peace.
of course same with the Hamas faction

I find it bull****, people thinkin' Israel's doing her share to bring peace.

neither side is trying


Your right, Sharon needs to be replaced with someone who will get the job done. Massive retaliation to any terrorist attack. Drop 2000 lb bombs on Hamas/Islamic Jihad marches and flag burning sessions. You use a Mosque to make bombs, that Mosque is gone. You drop bricks on troops heads, you get your head blown off. You ever even think about nuking Israel, and Damascus, Gaza City, West Bank are gone.


They need a leader who realizes Israel is under siege and acts accordingly against its enemies.

da_man0r
04-18-2004, 07:27 AM
The killing of a Hamas leader, one who has targeted/caused the death of many women, children and has sheilded behind children to protect himself from death , is justified.

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Jimineye
Do you not know what happened when the Arab countries went to war against Israel. Not only did Israel kick their ass, but Israel took their land too. The Arab armies put simply are pathetic.


Really? Arabs went into war not only with Israel but with a super power America in 1973. Egypt really kicked the Israelis on the night of 6 October. The initial success was stunning! An immediate and MASSIVE airlift of the most sophisticated arms from the United States helped the Israeli recovery. Without America, Israel is a dust!

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
it's very clear, that this lunatic Sharon has no plan for peace.
of course same with the Hamas faction

I find it bull****, people thinkin' Israel's doing her share to bring peace.

neither side is trying

Big Bump!

JohnnyLaw
04-18-2004, 09:18 AM
Nice try. Israel stomped ass so hard egypt had to ask for most of her country back. I dont care where the weapons came from thats just ****ing embarrasing. The rest of the Arab nations are in the stone age. Israel would have its way with them. But unlike everyone else in that region Israel is content with what it has...

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
Nice try. Israel stomped ass so hard egypt had to ask for most of her country back. I dont care where the weapons came from thats just ****ing embarrasing. The rest of the Arab nations are in the stone age. Israel would have its way with them. But unlike everyone else in that region Israel is content with what it has...



Get your facts right then come argue with me bro! Anyone here can through statements, still you didn't deny my point, which means I'm right! Without the support of the west Israel won't even exist! All the extremist in Israel know it...Israel as it now exists cannot survive in the hart of the Muslim world in its present form without the support of the United States! Israeli economy is hugely deficit...all the powerful, advanced military machine to insure its own survival can be maintained only with outside help! Suppose America today cuts all the billions of dollars that it send to Israel annually and all the military advance and powerful machine, I will give Israel less than 5 years to survive! It's matter f economy and military that let Israel survive all those years. Without it they are nothing! Again my point Israel is worthless without the help of America.

dave22
04-18-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Get your facts right then come argue with me bro! Anyone here can through statements, still you didn't deny my point, which means I'm right! Without the support of the west Israel won't even exist! All the extremist in Israel know it...Israel as it now exists cannot survive in the hart of the Muslim world in its present form without the support of the United States! Israeli economy is hugely deficit...all the powerful, advanced military machine to insure its own survival can be maintained only with outside help! Suppose America today cuts all the billions of dollars that it send to Israel annually and all the military advance and powerful machine, I will give Israel less than 5 years to survive! It's matter f economy and military that let Israel survive all those years. Without it they are nothing! Again my point Israel is worthless without the help of America.

Same could be said for Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and numerous other middle eastern nations. Without US aid, I'm pretty sure that Egypt and Pakistan would fall to Islamic fundamentalists. Let us never forget what happened when we stopped supporting the Shah.

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Same could be said for Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and numerous other middle eastern nations. Without US aid, I'm pretty sure that Egypt and Pakistan would fall to Islamic fundamentalists. Let us never forget what happened when we stopped supporting the Shah.

Dave, what are you talking about!

America gives Israel about 5 billion a year and the and the Israeli population is only 4 millions! On the other hand, another 5 billion to Egypt with the population of 70 millions! You got my point bro?

JohnnyLaw
04-18-2004, 09:57 AM
there is no doubt that they are tied(Us and Israel) but I dont see that bond being broken ever. The states needs Israel as a footing of Western style democracy in the middle east. But I agree with your facts. Just not about who did what in the 6 day war. Thanks for keeping it civil though. I was getting flared up until you said 'bro'. Then I was like yeah he has a point.

dave22
04-18-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Dave, what are you talking about!

America gives Israel about 5 billion a year and the and the Israeli population is only 4 millions! On the other hand, another 5 billion to Egypt with the population of 70 millions! You got my point bro?

Has Israel ever done anything to the US that would convince you, to stop giving aid to Israel??

What if we pulled our troops from S. Korea, and Japan?? What do you think N. Korea would do??

We didn't have to have troops in Saudi Arabia, but we had them there to protect our oil interests despite what the populaion wanted. Having our troops in Saudi Arabia was one of the reasons 9-11 happened.

It's in the US's interest to have Israel as an ally, and I don't see that friendship ending anytime soon.

FatFat Bastard
04-18-2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Get your facts right then come argue with me bro! Anyone here can through statements, still you didn't deny my point, which means I'm right! Without the support of the west Israel won't even exist! All the extremist in Israel know it...Israel as it now exists cannot survive in the hart of the Muslim world in its present form without the support of the United States! Israeli economy is hugely deficit...all the powerful, advanced military machine to insure its own survival can be maintained only with outside help! Suppose America today cuts all the billions of dollars that it send to Israel annually and all the military advance and powerful machine, I will give Israel less than 5 years to survive! It's matter f economy and military that let Israel survive all those years. Without it they are nothing! Again my point Israel is worthless without the help of America.

Starsky
04-18-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Get your facts right then come argue with me bro! Anyone here can through statements, still you didn't deny my point, which means I'm right! Without the support of the west Israel won't even exist! All the extremist in Israel know it...Israel as it now exists cannot survive in the hart of the Muslim world in its present form without the support of the United States! Israeli economy is hugely deficit...all the powerful, advanced military machine to insure its own survival can be maintained only with outside help! Suppose America today cuts all the billions of dollars that it send to Israel annually and all the military advance and powerful machine, I will give Israel less than 5 years to survive! It's matter f economy and military that let Israel survive all those years. Without it they are nothing! Again my point Israel is worthless without the help of America.



Yes, and the US backed England in WW2, the US backs its own troops. Does this make their victory less impressive? The fact that a tiny nation, US-backed or not, was able to defeat a coalition of much larger countries arrayed against it is still both impressive and positive.

TranceNRG
04-18-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
Yes, and the US backed England in WW2, the US backs its own troops. Does this make their victory less impressive? The fact that a tiny nation, US-backed or not, was able to defeat a coalition of much larger countries arrayed against it is still both impressive and positive.


not really.
the fact that US-backed Israel every step of the way changes everything.

enjoyincubus
04-18-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Get your facts right then come argue with me bro! Anyone here can through statements, still you didn't deny my point, which means I'm right! Without the support of the west Israel won't even exist! All the extremist in Israel know it...Israel as it now exists cannot survive in the hart of the Muslim world in its present form without the support of the United States! Israeli economy is hugely deficit...all the powerful, advanced military machine to insure its own survival can be maintained only with outside help! Suppose America today cuts all the billions of dollars that it send to Israel annually and all the military advance and powerful machine, I will give Israel less than 5 years to survive! It's matter f economy and military that let Israel survive all those years. Without it they are nothing! Again my point Israel is worthless without the help of America.


your fogetting one major thing, 'bro". the arabs were being supplied by the soviet union, so dont speak as if the arabs were fighting on their own dime.


its amazing how some of these "peaceloving" leftists love to speak about the demise of israel. is it me, or are these "peacelovers" filled with more hate than anyone else in here?

fireman_x
04-18-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
I dont see that bong being broken ever.
Yeah don't break the bong.

JohnnyLaw
04-18-2004, 03:15 PM
nice catch

dave22
04-18-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by enjoyincubus
your fogetting one major thing, 'bro". the arabs were being supplied by the soviet union, so dont speak as if the arabs were fighting on their own dime.


its amazing how some of these "peaceloving" leftists love to speak about the demise of israel. is it me, or are these "peacelovers" filled with more hate than anyone else in here?

It's just a common fact that Arabs suck at war period. Generals don't become generals due to ambition and intelligence over there, they become generals on how loyal they are to the current leader. The officers run at the start of a conflict and leave their troops at the drop of a hat.

Think of the Israeli/ Palestine conflict, the suicide bombers target the peons, you know children and women. The Israelis target the actual leaders, they target the big dawgs. If Israel wanted to, Arafat could become a ghost in an instant, what could the Palestinians really do??

Look at Iraq, we them over in less than a month, and if we were ruthless, we could have crushed the opposition in a matter of weeks.

Another example, the Iraq-Iran war. That war should have been over in a few weeks, but it dragged on for 8 years. With Saddam leading the Iraqi forces, and the Mullahs leading the Iranian forces. Nothing like grabbing teenagers and having them commit wave after wave of suicide attacks.

Look at Arab technololy. They don't create ANYTHING!!!! They purchase all of thier weapons from places like China, N. Korea, and Western nations.

JohnnyLaw
04-18-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by dave22
It's just a common fact that Arabs suck at war period. Generals don't become generals due to ambition and intelligence over there, they become generals on how loyal they are to the current leader. The officers run at the start of a conflict and leave their troops at the drop of a hat.

Think of the Israeli/ Palestine conflict, the suicide bombers target the peons, you know children and women. The Israelis target the actual leaders, they target the big dawgs. If Israel wanted to, Arafat could become a ghost in an instant, what could the Palestinians really do??

Look at Iraq, we them over in less than a month, and if we were ruthless, we could have crushed the opposition in a matter of weeks.

Another example, the Iraq-Iran war. That war should have been over in a few weeks, but it dragged on for 8 years. With Saddam leading the Iraqi forces, and the Mullahs leading the Iranian forces. Nothing like grabbing teenagers and having them commit wave after wave of suicide attacks.

Look at Arab technololy. They don't create ANYTHING!!!! They purchase all of thier weapons from places like China, N. Korea, and Western nations.



Ouch. Although we are getting into dangerous territory here. They do ride the oil a little much. They dont seem much interested in contributing to the world community except to take our money and aid. However Im sure Ive overlooked something and 30 people will jump on me about what the arab community offers. Excluding Islam as Im not interested,

JigaroKagan
04-18-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
Ouch. Although we are getting into dangerous territory here. They do ride the oil a little much. They dont seem much interested in contributing to the world community except to take our money and aid. However Im sure Ive overlooked something and 30 people will jump on me about what the arab community offers. Excluding Islam as Im not interested,

Actually, that's really all they offer.

Jimineye
04-18-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by dave22

Look at Arab technololy. They don't create ANYTHING!!!! They purchase all of thier weapons from places like China, N. Korea, and Western nations.

I don't know those camels are home grown.

dave22
04-18-2004, 05:17 PM
Okay, I take it back. Afgahanastan contributes to a good deal of the Heroin supply out there in the world.

supergarr
04-18-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by JigaroKagan
Actually, that's really all they offer.


bomb vests

Starsky
04-18-2004, 05:50 PM
Tiny South Korea has created over 35X as many patents as the entire Arab world in the last few decades.

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by enjoyincubus
your fogetting one major thing, 'bro". the arabs were being supplied by the soviet union, so dont speak as if the arabs were fighting on their own dime.


its amazing how some of these "peaceloving" leftists love to speak about the demise of israel. is it me, or are these "peacelovers" filled with more hate than anyone else in here?

No BRO, I didn't miss anything here! Soviet airlift began only after the Israeli (backed by America) were 30 miles outside Damascus and after Sharon crossed the west bank of the of the Canal! okay?

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
Ouch. Although we are getting into dangerous territory here. They do ride the oil a little much. They dont seem much interested in contributing to the world community except to take our money and aid. However Im sure Ive overlooked something and 30 people will jump on me about what the arab community offers. Excluding Islam as Im not interested,


One example, Saudi governmet did put a trillion of dollars in American banks in the early 80s with request from the Reagan administration to help the US economy at the time. Another $ 2 trillion in the stock and foreign exchange market. Imagine if suddenly they take out all their money? It will be 50 times worse impact than the 9/11!

AnotherScorpion
04-18-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by dave22
Okay, I take it back. Afgahanastan contributes to a good deal of the Heroin supply out there in the world.

Afghanistan ain't an Arab or even Mideastern country! But it's Islamic....

TranceNRG
04-18-2004, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by JohnnyLaw
Ouch. Although we are getting into dangerous territory here. They do ride the oil a little much. They dont seem much interested in contributing to the world community except to take our money and aid. However Im sure Ive overlooked something and 30 people will jump on me about what the arab community offers. Excluding Islam as Im not interested,


They have contributed enough, during their golden age

plus, what do you mean when you say arab communities?

you mean arabs in general or their countries?

Cause I'm pretty sure there are tons of arab and muslim scientists living in states, canada or europe who have contributed more than their share to this world.

irpker
04-18-2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
One example, Saudi governmet did put a trillion of dollars in American banks in the early 80s with request from the Reagan administration to help the US economy at the time. Another $ 2 trillion in the stock and foreign exchange market. Imagine if suddenly they take out all their money? It will be 50 times worse impact than the 9/11!

It's not anywhere near that trillion dollar figure you're considering. The answer is we really don't know how much government issue bonds they hold, nor do we really care.

The federal government just thinks of the agreement as the Saudi Royal family gets protection from its citizens and foreign nations, while America gets their money and makes sure they do not try to cause supply shocks by rapid cutting of oil supplies whenever they feel like it.

FatFat Bastard
04-18-2004, 10:32 PM
On October 6, 1973 -- Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar (and during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan) -- Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel. The equivalent of the total forces of NATO in Europe was mobilized on Israel's borders. On the Golan Heights, approximately 180 Israeli tanks faced an onslaught of 1,400 Syrian tanks. Along the Suez Canal, fewer than 500 Israeli defenders with only three tanks were attacked by 600,000 Egyptian soldiers, backed by 2,000 tanks and 550 aircraft.


Along the Suez Canal, 500 Israelis with three tanks were attacked by 600,000 Egyptian soldiers, backed by 2,000 tanks and 550 aircraft.

At least nine Arab states, including four non-Middle Eastern nations (Libya, Sudan, Algeria, and Morocco), actively aided the Egyptian-Syrian war effort. A few months before the Yom Kippur War, Iraq transferred a squadron of Hunter jets to Egypt. During the war, an Iraqi division of some 18,000 men and several hundred tanks was deployed in the central Golan and participated in the October 16 attack against Israeli positions. Iraqi MiGs began operating over the Golan Heights as early as October 8, the third day of the war.

Besides serving as financial underwriters, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait committed men to battle. A Saudi brigade of approximately 3,000 troops was dispatched to Syria, where it participated in fighting along the approaches to Damascus.

Thrown onto the defensive during the first two days of fighting, Israel mobilized its reserves and began to counterattack. In the south, Israeli forces were having little success in stopping the Egyptian onslaught. Still, the Sinai Desert offered a large buffer zone between the fighting and the heart of Israel.

The situation was different in the north, where the Syrians had swept across the Golan and could, in short order, threaten Israel's population centers. Consequently, most reserves meant for the Egyptian front were shifted to the Golan. The replenished Israeli forces stopped the Syrian advance, forced a retreat, and began their own march forward toward Damascus.

************************************************** **
The Soviets gave their wholehearted political support to the Arab invasion. Starting as early as October 9, they also began a massive airlift of weapons, which ultimately totaled 8,000 tons of materiel. The United States had given Israel some ammunition and spare parts, but it resisted Israeli requests for greater assistance.

As the Soviets continued to pour weapons into the region, Kissinger decided that the United States could not afford to allow the Soviet Union's allies to win the war.

The Secretary of State wanted to show the Arabs they could never defeat Israel with the backing of the Soviets. He also couldn't afford to let the U.S.'s adversaries win a victory over a U.S. ally. By sending arms to Israel, the United States could insure an Israeli victory, hand the Soviets a defeat, and provide Washington with the leverage to influence a postwar settlement.


On October 12, Nixon ordered an emergency airlift to Israel. Cargo planes carrying spare parts, tanks, bombs, and helicopters flew round the clock to Israel via bases in the Azores. Between October 14 and November 14, 22,000 tons of equipment were transported to Israel by air and sea. The airlift alone involved 566 flights.

dave22
04-18-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by FatFat Bastard
On October 6, 1973 -- Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar (and during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan) -- Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel. The equivalent of the total forces of NATO in Europe was mobilized on Israel's borders. On the Golan Heights, approximately 180 Israeli tanks faced an onslaught of 1,400 Syrian tanks. Along the Suez Canal, fewer than 500 Israeli defenders with only three tanks were attacked by 600,000 Egyptian soldiers, backed by 2,000 tanks and 550 aircraft.


Along the Suez Canal, 500 Israelis with three tanks were attacked by 600,000 Egyptian soldiers, backed by 2,000 tanks and 550 aircraft.

At least nine Arab states, including four non-Middle Eastern nations (Libya, Sudan, Algeria, and Morocco), actively aided the Egyptian-Syrian war effort. A few months before the Yom Kippur War, Iraq transferred a squadron of Hunter jets to Egypt. During the war, an Iraqi division of some 18,000 men and several hundred tanks was deployed in the central Golan and participated in the October 16 attack against Israeli positions. Iraqi MiGs began operating over the Golan Heights as early as October 8, the third day of the war.

Besides serving as financial underwriters, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait committed men to battle. A Saudi brigade of approximately 3,000 troops was dispatched to Syria, where it participated in fighting along the approaches to Damascus.

Thrown onto the defensive during the first two days of fighting, Israel mobilized its reserves and began to counterattack. In the south, Israeli forces were having little success in stopping the Egyptian onslaught. Still, the Sinai Desert offered a large buffer zone between the fighting and the heart of Israel.

The situation was different in the north, where the Syrians had swept across the Golan and could, in short order, threaten Israel's population centers. Consequently, most reserves meant for the Egyptian front were shifted to the Golan. The replenished Israeli forces stopped the Syrian advance, forced a retreat, and began their own march forward toward Damascus.

************************************************** **
The Soviets gave their wholehearted political support to the Arab invasion. Starting as early as October 9, they also began a massive airlift of weapons, which ultimately totaled 8,000 tons of materiel. The United States had given Israel some ammunition and spare parts, but it resisted Israeli requests for greater assistance.

As the Soviets continued to pour weapons into the region, Kissinger decided that the United States could not afford to allow the Soviet Union's allies to win the war.

The Secretary of State wanted to show the Arabs they could never defeat Israel with the backing of the Soviets. He also couldn't afford to let the U.S.'s adversaries win a victory over a U.S. ally. By sending arms to Israel, the United States could insure an Israeli victory, hand the Soviets a defeat, and provide Washington with the leverage to influence a postwar settlement.


On October 12, Nixon ordered an emergency airlift to Israel. Cargo planes carrying spare parts, tanks, bombs, and helicopters flew round the clock to Israel via bases in the Azores. Between October 14 and November 14, 22,000 tons of equipment were transported to Israel by air and sea. The airlift alone involved 566 flights.

A great victory on Israel's part, and afterward?? Constant bitching from the losers. What did we hear from the UN?? Protests about the occupation of the Golan Heights, etc, etc.

TranceNRG
04-18-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by dave22
A great victory on Israel's part, and afterward?? Constant bitching from the losers. What did we hear from the UN?? Protests about the occupation of the Golan Heights, etc, etc.


I'm pretty sure if you ask about the history from the other side, you'll hear something you won't like

irpker
04-18-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
I'm pretty sure if you ask about the history from the other side, you'll hear something you won't like

Loser's don't write history :)

TranceNRG
04-18-2004, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by irpker
Loser's don't write history :)


winner's change the history

there's always the "official" version... reason by whoever has the power.

and the truth and reality, that contains alotta things the the one in power wouldn't like the rest to know.


that's always the case

dave22
04-18-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
I'm pretty sure if you ask about the history from the other side, you'll hear something you won't like

The Arab nations were the ones who attacked first, hell bent on destroying Israel, in their words they would say some kind of bull**** like, "Liberate Palestine, wiping out the Zionist entity." They lost, and they have to get over that fact.

Debaser
04-19-2004, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by dave22
The Arab nations were the ones who attacked first, hell bent on destroying Israel, in their words they would say some kind of bull**** like, "Liberate Palestine, wiping out the Zionist entity." They lost, and they have to get over that fact.

Do you think they had the initial right to attack? Or were they off-base with such actions?

drags
04-19-2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by dave22
LMAO!!!!! You're living in a fantasy world you know that??

Does the war of 48, 56, 67, and 73 come to mind?? All of those wars, the Arabs tried to literally wipe Israel off the face of the map, and lost every single time. Israel also has nukes, so I think that they'll be around for a long time.

Saying that one day the Palestinians will rise up, and Israel will regret it, is just as stupid as, what do you Austrailians call the Aboriginies?? Oh yeah, Abos, well one day the Abos will rise up, and you people will be sorry. Sounds stupid right??

of course it sounds stupid but i'll be the one laughing when it happens. Aborigines are practicly wiped out. There are very few pure aborigines left. But with palestinians there are plenty. What going to stop a phsyco palestinian from getting a nuke and blowing himself up along with Israel?????

What history has shown me is that persistance always pays off.

Al_Bundy
04-19-2004, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by dave22
LMAO!!!!! You're living in a fantasy world you know that??

Does the war of 48, 56, 67, and 73 come to mind?? All of those wars, the Arabs tried to literally wipe Israel off the face of the map, and lost every single time. Israel also has nukes, so I think that they'll be around for a long time.

Saying that one day the Palestinians will rise up, and Israel will regret it, is just as stupid as, what do you Austrailians call the Aboriginies?? Oh yeah, Abos, well one day the Abos will rise up, and you people will be sorry. Sounds stupid right??

Nice, except for the racism.

dave22
04-19-2004, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Debaser
Do you think they had the initial right to attack? Or were they off-base with such actions?

In their minds they probably thought that they had the intial right to attack. But they lost, and most likely will continue to lose in the future.

buddha
04-19-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
If you recall, after the pied-piped of kiddy terrorism, Shiekh Yassin was killed, Hamas vowed to "open up the Gates of Hell(interesting term...sounds like satanists)". Did you notice massive retaliation within the next couple weeks? No.

Arab oratory is quite colorful.

If you folks have not, I highly suggest you check out the book "The Arab Mind."

JohnnyLaw
04-19-2004, 03:19 PM
I bet it a small book......ba dum ching......but seriously folks.

Debaser
04-19-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by dave22
In their minds they probably thought that they had the intial right to attack. But they lost, and most likely will continue to lose in the future.

I am talking about the initial creation of Israel in '48. Did they have a good reason to start war, or was it for no reason at all? Oh, and I do agree, they lost and just should forget about everything, but that's not how life works sometimes.

dave22
04-20-2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by Debaser
I am talking about the initial creation of Israel in '48. Did they have a good reason to start war, or was it for no reason at all? Oh, and I do agree, they lost and just should forget about everything, but that's not how life works sometimes.

If Israel shouldn't exist, than neither should alot of middle eastern nations, because they to were created by western countries. Syria, Kuwait, Iraq, etc.

Canadian Nanook
04-20-2004, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Debaser
I am talking about the initial creation of Israel in '48. Did they have a good reason to start war, or was it for no reason at all? Oh, and I do agree, they lost and just should forget about everything, but that's not how life works sometimes.
No, they didn't. Their king agreed on a Jewish state. DO you not remember the Weitzman Feizal agreement. This was an agreement between king Feizal, the leader of the arab people, and Weitzman, a Jewish Zionist who pleaded his case to the UN after WW1
King Feizal even agreed to an Israel which inhabited all of palestine and transjordan which would mean that all of the Israeli land now, including the westbank and the golan heights as well as all of jordan and all the land surrounding the jordan river would belong to Israel. Coming two days after Yom Hashoah or holocaust memorial day, I can not believe you actually said this. The Jews did not need a land of their own even though 6 million of their people were just massacred in mass graves and gas chambers. It is a difference between want and need, sure the arabs wanted more land, even though they had almost all the rest of the middle east, while the Jews needed a land to escape the hellhole of Europe at that time. I dare you to do a google search of the children in the holocaust and some of Dr. Mengele's experiments and be able to honestly tell me that the Jews did not need a land of their own. Look at those children and feel their pain as they suffered until the end

AnotherScorpion
04-20-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
No, they didn't. Their king agreed on a Jewish state. DO you not remember the Weitzman Feizal agreement. This was an agreement between king Feizal, the leader of the arab people, and Weitzman, a Jewish Zionist who pleaded his case to the UN after WW1
King Feizal even agreed to an Israel which inhabited all of palestine and transjordan which would mean that all of the Israeli land now, including the westbank and the golan heights as well as all of jordan and all the land surrounding the jordan river would belong to Israel. Coming two days after Yom Hashoah or holocaust memorial day, I can not believe you actually said this. The Jews did not need a land of their own even though 6 million of their people were just massacred in mass graves and gas chambers. It is a difference between want and need, sure the arabs wanted more land, even though they had almost all the rest of the middle east, while the Jews needed a land to escape the hellhole of Europe at that time. I dare you to do a google search of the children in the holocaust and some of Dr. Mengele's experiments and be able to honestly tell me that the Jews did not need a land of their own. Look at those children and feel their pain as they suffered until the end


Hmm...which movie is this? Can I rent it in blockbuster?

nitr0x
04-20-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
No, they didn't. Their king agreed on a Jewish state. DO you not remember the Weitzman Feizal agreement. This was an agreement between king Feizal, the leader of the arab people, and Weitzman, a Jewish Zionist who pleaded his case to the UN after WW1
King Feizal even agreed to an Israel which inhabited all of palestine and transjordan which would mean that all of the Israeli land now, including the westbank and the golan heights as well as all of jordan and all the land surrounding the jordan river would belong to Israel. Coming two days after Yom Hashoah or holocaust memorial day, I can not believe you actually said this. The Jews did not need a land of their own even though 6 million of their people were just massacred in mass graves and gas chambers. It is a difference between want and need, sure the arabs wanted more land, even though they had almost all the rest of the middle east, while the Jews needed a land to escape the hellhole of Europe at that time. I dare you to do a google search of the children in the holocaust and some of Dr. Mengele's experiments and be able to honestly tell me that the Jews did not need a land of their own. Look at those children and feel their pain as they suffered until the end

lol, leader of the arabs, good one.

Bionik
04-20-2004, 07:51 PM
I'm glad he's dead.

Canadian Nanook
04-20-2004, 08:24 PM
Have any of you looked at the pictures? They tell a tale of torture and death and yet you ask was it right for the arabs to be pissed. The Jews needed a place because of Hitler and people like Dr. Mengele. Oh but then fine, the Jews should have all been killed in the ovens of Aushwitz and Treblinka so the Arabs could have had a tiny piece of land which they wanted instead of a land which the Jews needed. You should research and learn about the holocaust before you make stupid accusations like the Arabs had the right to be pissed off. That is the same as saying that it was justified for them to attack to get rid of the Jews in Israel the same way Mengele used children as torture subjects

Canadian Nanook
04-20-2004, 08:26 PM
Look at these kids before you speak again

Reborn79
04-20-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
Look at these kids before you speak again

I fail to see how this has anything to do with the current situation. Yes, the Holocaust was a terrible thing, and yes, the Jewish people deserve a place to live, and yes, Israel deserves to remain a nation.

But No, Israel should not stay in the West Bank. No, Israel should not send missiles into palestinian cities in order to 'defend itself', and no, Israel should not compare this situation to the American fight in Afghanistan.

Canadian Nanook
04-20-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Reborn79
I fail to see how this has anything to do with the current situation. Yes, the Holocaust was a terrible thing, and yes, the Jewish people deserve a place to live, and yes, Israel deserves to remain a nation.

But No, Israel should not stay in the West Bank. No, Israel should not send missiles into palestinian cities in order to 'defend itself', and no, Israel should not compare this situation to the American fight in Afghanistan.
read the whole argument, there was a question as to whether or not the arabs had the right to be pissed when Israel was declared a country

TranceNRG
04-20-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
read the whole argument, there was a question as to whether or not the arabs had the right to be pissed when Israel was declared a country

hmmm...
should settler zionist be pissed if they're kicked out of west bank and gaza?

nitr0x
04-20-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
Look at these kids before you speak again

how about you post pics of famished palestinian children...

dave22
04-20-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by nitr0x
how about you post pics of famished palestinian children...

Maybe they're famished because their so-called "brothers" won't help them out, instead they just leave them in refuge camps.

drags
04-21-2004, 03:56 AM
you people speak as thought no other race has suffered like the Jews. A lot of nations of the world have experience genocide and we don't hear them cry about it and use it for sympathy continuesly. The other nations have gotten on with their lives. But we have to remember no other race has better connections in America and around the world than the Jews.

And lets not forget the terrorism by the Jews in the early years of Israel; early 1950's. Where whole Arab villages were wiped out.

AnotherScorpion
04-21-2004, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
read the whole argument, there was a question as to whether or not the arabs had the right to be pissed when Israel was declared a country

I think we should ban kidos bellow 21 from posting in religion & politics forum cuz it's a shame how they think!!
To answer your question, whether or not the Arabs had the right to be pissed when Israel was declared a country, yes they have every right! Let me tell you why my little Canadian friend: the UN general assembly passed Resolution 181 in 1947, this resolution passed because both the USA and Soviet Union, which then dominated the UN, voted in favor and used their pressure to do so. the partition of Palestine was unfair and the Arabs complained to the International court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants (1,269,000 Arabs and 678,000 immigrant Jews) The partition gave the Jews 55% of the land....before this partition the Jews owned less than 8 % of the total land! Now you know why they are pisst! One more thing, Imagine that the Muslim immigrants in Europe decided one day to occupy a big land in the heart of Europe and declared as an Islamic country, who will accept this? Or better in America? I know I won't accept it! This is the same thing how those Arabs think, they fought the crusaders for hundred of years for their land and now we planted a Jewish State in the heart of Islamic world, same place were they fought for years. something for you to think about bro!

Gettin_big
04-21-2004, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Really? Arabs went into war not only with Israel but with a super power America in 1973. Egypt really kicked the Israelis on the night of 6 October. The initial success was stunning! An immediate and MASSIVE airlift of the most sophisticated arms from the United States helped the Israeli recovery. Without America, Israel is a dust!

Yesssss! The arab nation armies are well known for their victories! Great infantry divisions, great air force (LMAOOO HAHA) great intelligence.
They are a joke, seriously.
The war of 73 came as a surprise to israel after the knock out of 67'. Still, israel kicked the **** out of them.
Ohh yeah, the initial success was not bad but not stunning lmao...

FatFat Bastard
04-21-2004, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
. something for you to think about bro!

blah balh balh
anyway are you a muslim?
if yes please tell me what it says in the quaran about children of ISRAEL?
how many times did they get kicked out of the land of ISREAL?

FatFat Bastard
04-21-2004, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by drags
you people speak as thought no other race has suffered like the Jews. A lot of nations of the world have experience genocide and we don't hear them cry about it and use it for sympathy continuesly. The other nations have gotten on with their lives. But we have to remember no other race has better connections in America and around the world than the Jews.

And lets not forget the terrorism by the Jews in the early years of Israel; early 1950's. Where whole Arab villages were wiped out.

lets not forget the intention of the arab armys in 1948..

AnotherScorpion
04-21-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by FatFat Bastard
blah balh balh
anyway are you a muslim?
if yes please tell me what it says in the quaran about children of ISRAEL?
how many times did they get kicked out of the land of ISREAL?

Yo fat, who is Muslim??! Damn I dislike Islam as much as I dislike Judaism. They are both backward religions that needs to be destroyed or updated! All of our modern problem comes from either Jews or Muslims! Regarding Israel, I'm talking what's fair here without all prejudges, cultural or religion background that you guys have! Look at most people who defend Israel here...either American Jews or Jew immigrants (settlers) in Israel fair enough?

FatFat Bastard
04-21-2004, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
Yo fat, who is Muslim??! Damn I dislike Islam as much as I dislike Judaism. They are both backward religions that needs to be destroyed or updated! All of our modern problem comes from either Jews or Muslims! Regarding Israel, I'm talking what's fair here without all prejudges, cultural or religion background that you guys have! Look at most people who defend Israel here...either American Jews or Jew immigrants (settlers) in Israel fair enough?

i am not big on religion as well
and yes they are very backward...destroyed no, to far but updated them absolutly....
i would say that modern problem have nothing to do with jews or muslims....
modern problem have to do with uneducated, ignorant people not with religioun.
you can have an ignorant christian or muslim or jew or ignorant heindo. that has nothing to do with the religion itself.
if you think that there no such thing as an ignorant white (not jewish ) American or european you are not thinking.

Canadian Nanook
04-25-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
I think we should ban kidos bellow 21 from posting in religion & politics forum cuz it's a shame how they think!!
To answer your question, whether or not the Arabs had the right to be pissed when Israel was declared a country, yes they have every right! Let me tell you why my little Canadian friend: the UN general assembly passed Resolution 181 in 1947, this resolution passed because both the USA and Soviet Union, which then dominated the UN, voted in favor and used their pressure to do so. the partition of Palestine was unfair and the Arabs complained to the International court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants (1,269,000 Arabs and 678,000 immigrant Jews) The partition gave the Jews 55% of the land....before this partition the Jews owned less than 8 % of the total land! Now you know why they are pisst! One more thing, Imagine that the Muslim immigrants in Europe decided one day to occupy a big land in the heart of Europe and declared as an Islamic country, who will accept this? Or better in America? I know I won't accept it! This is the same thing how those Arabs think, they fought the crusaders for hundred of years for their land and now we planted a Jewish State in the heart of Islamic world, same place were they fought for years. something for you to think about bro!
I apologize, I misspoke, and if you have read any other of my posts you will understand that I don't normally say stupid things, anyways, yes, fine the arabs had a right to be pissed, cause the Jews were placed in the middle of their land, oh and by the way there is a European country which is muslim, but I'm saying that the Arabs had no right to attack Israel in that there was plenty of other land around which was Muslim land. Most of the land that was given to Israel was also the Negev, a vast desert which was transformed by the Jews into a prosperous, as much as it could be, agricultural area. Also, another question, where else would you have recommended the Jews be placed, they needed a land because they would not remain in Europe and the majority of people who survived the holocaust began immigrating to Israel. The land that they had owned before was all legally owned by Bnai brith, and this was the land with the most Jews and a historical past. I agree that there was a right to be pissed, but the arabs also need to see it from where the Jews were sitting at that time, millions of their people had just been slaughtered, the western countries betrayed them and they had land in Israel, what else were the Jews supposed to do. There is little justification for the attack in 1948 in that yes fine, arabs were displaced to other land which was their own, but the Jews had no land, were given this land by the occupying power under UN authority and had just survived the worst genocide the world has ever known. I also apologize for the lateness of this reply, I have been sick.

AnotherScorpion
04-25-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
I apologize, I misspoke, and if you have read any other of my posts you will understand that I don't normally say stupid things, anyways, yes, fine the arabs had a right to be pissed, cause the Jews were placed in the middle of their land, oh and by the way there is a European country which is muslim, but I'm saying that the Arabs had no right to attack Israel in that there was plenty of other land around which was Muslim land. Most of the land that was given to Israel was also the Negev, a vast desert which was transformed by the Jews into a prosperous, as much as it could be, agricultural area. Also, another question, where else would you have recommended the Jews be placed, they needed a land because they would not remain in Europe and the majority of people who survived the holocaust began immigrating to Israel. The land that they had owned before was all legally owned by Bnai brith, and this was the land with the most Jews and a historical past. I agree that there was a right to be pissed, but the arabs also need to see it from where the Jews were sitting at that time, millions of their people had just been slaughtered, the western countries betrayed them and they had land in Israel, what else were the Jews supposed to do. There is little justification for the attack in 1948 in that yes fine, arabs were displaced to other land which was their own, but the Jews had no land, were given this land by the occupying power under UN authority and had just survived the worst genocide the world has ever known. I also apologize for the lateness of this reply, I have been sick.

No worries my Canadian friend, but one question...which country is a Muslim country in Europe? Bosnia? It's not an Islamic State...Croats, Serbs and Muslims all jointly rule Bosnia.

drags
04-26-2004, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by AnotherScorpion
No worries my Canadian friend, but one question...which country is a Muslim country in Europe? Bosnia? It's not an Islamic State...Croats, Serbs and Muslims all jointly rule Bosnia.

Bosnia isn't ruled jointly. All the racial groups stick to their own and are seperated from each other. Tensions are high again in Bosnia and if it wasn't for the peacekeepers i'm afraid to say that another war will probably break out there.
Albania is also another muslim country!