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View Full Version : Italy confirms hostage executed



aserecuba
04-14-2004, 06:05 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/14/iraq.hostages.int/index.html

it would be intersting if someone posted a link to the tape.

CITADEL
04-14-2004, 06:59 PM
Hey wow, just some more ****ed up **** going on in Iraq.

supergarr
04-14-2004, 08:34 PM
i'd be furious if i were the president of italy. I'm sure he is.

"When your president says pulling the troops out of Iraq is non-negotiable then this means he does not care for the safety of his citizens as much as he is concerned with satisfying his masters in the White House," the statement said.

"We have killed one of the four hostages we have in order to teach a lesson for those who are involved. We know they are guards working for the American occupation in our country.

"We ask you one more time to revolt once again in the face of your leaders and reject this unjust war on us so that we can protect your citizens. We are waiting for that from you or else we will kill them one by one," added the Green Brigade.



they shot the guy in the back of the neck

Starsky
04-14-2004, 08:45 PM
The Italians should round up all the terrorists relatives and send a video of them. Say for every Italian they shoot, they will kill 10 relatives. Sure its violent, but they would probably get their hostages back and no one would have to die. It worked when Hezbollah pissed off the Soviets.

amrbassiouny
04-14-2004, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
The Italians should round up all the terrorists relatives and send a video of them. Say for every Italian they shoot, they will kill 10 relatives. Sure its violent, but they would probably get their hostages back and no one would have to die. It worked when Hezbollah pissed off the Soviets.

and then the freedom fighters can just start blowing **** up in italy. great idea.

i personally support them. wether they kill people or not its for a just cause and the italians have no right to be in there nor does any part of the coalition of the poodles (of the US).

batfonso
04-14-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny


i personally support them. wether they kill people or not its for a just cause and the italians have no right to be in there nor does any part of the coalition of the poodles (of the US).

They can't wait a couple of months before the Coalition hands over power to the Iraqi governing body? You're a moron.

Starsky
04-14-2004, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
and then the freedom fighters can just start blowing **** up in italy. great idea.

i personally support them. wether they kill people or not its for a just cause and the italians have no right to be in there nor does any part of the coalition of the poodles (of the US).


You support the terrorists who shot the Italian in the back of the head? Your a real piece of work.

supergarr
04-14-2004, 10:01 PM
I don't know how anybody can support them. That cleric has to go along with his lawless militia men. You know they won't go without a fight, so might as well kill em all.

aserecuba
04-14-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
and then the freedom fighters can just start blowing **** up in italy. great idea.

i personally support them. wether they kill people or not its for a just cause and the italians have no right to be in there nor does any part of the coalition of the poodles (of the US).
you should be dropped in the middle of iraq. those "freedom fighters" will rape you, bastard.

amrbassiouny
04-15-2004, 08:59 AM
let me ask you something.

lets say China doesn't like bush and the way he treats people at guantanamo bay, and says that the bush is a thread to world peace and china's security. then he attacks the USA after 10 years of crippling sanctions.

answer this. would it be legal for you to kill chinese men which are occupying your land? well, it seemed legal for the french to kill germans when they occupied their country, why is it not legal for iraqis to kill americans or italians who are in their country?

in WW2 when france was invaded, and there was the french resistance going on. if a french freedom fighter kidnapped 3 germans and demanded that the germans leave paris or else he would execute them. and then they didn't which leads to their execution. is he a terrorist or a freedom fighter?

you should understand the difference between terrorism and freedom fighting. terrorism is what bin-laden is doing, which is he goes to your home and terrorises you. freedom fighting is when you come into my home, and then i kill you so that you can get the **** out.

idiots.

amrbassiouny
04-15-2004, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
you should be dropped in the middle of iraq. those "freedom fighters" will rape you, bastard.

and no, i'm a smart arab muslim with a good education...exactly what they need. and they would know that i'd be of much help to them. hence, they would be happy to have me with them.

on the other hand...you are the one who would be raped. be careful never to be dropped there...

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
let me ask you something.

lets say China doesn't like bush and the way he treats people at guantanamo bay, and says that the bush is a thread to world peace and china's security. then he attacks the USA after 10 years of crippling sanctions.

answer this. would it be legal for you to kill chinese men which are occupying your land? well, it seemed legal for the french to kill germans when they occupied their country, why is it not legal for iraqis to kill americans or italians who are in their country?

in WW2 when france was invaded, and there was the french resistance going on. if a french freedom fighter kidnapped 3 germans and demanded that the germans leave paris or else he would execute them. and then they didn't which leads to their execution. is he a terrorist or a freedom fighter?

you should understand the difference between terrorism and freedom fighting. terrorism is what bin-laden is doing, which is he goes to your home and terrorises you. freedom fighting is when you come into my home, and then i kill you so that you can get the **** out.

idiots.
and your point is? they are not kidnapping soldiers they are kidnapping cameramen and your everyday citizen.

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
and no, i'm a smart arab muslim with a good education...exactly what they need. and they would know that i'd be of much help to them. hence, they would be happy to have me with them.

on the other hand...you are the one who would be raped. be careful never to be dropped there...
i'll make sure not to, unless im piloting the plane that will drop an h-bomb on their dirty heads so they can go and rape boys in the afterlife. and by the way i know not all muslims are the same but these people lol. wtf virgins and little boys in heaven? what kind of si** **** comes up with this s***

amrbassiouny
04-15-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
and by the way i know not all muslims are the same but these people lol. wtf virgins and little boys in heaven? what kind of si** **** comes up with this s***

what little boys in heaven? what are u talking about? i mean yea, the virgins are a logical thing. i mean, in heaven, there is EVERYTHING. why not good sex? its heaven right? i can't see anything wrong with having as many virgins as i want waiting for me in heaven. if you don't agree with me then get yourself a boyrfriend.

but, little boys in heaven? lol. you make me laugh. very stupid little boy you are. how old are you?

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
what little boys in heaven? what are u talking about? i mean yea, the virgins are a logical thing. i mean, in heaven, there is EVERYTHING. why not good sex? its heaven right? i can't see anything wrong with having as many virgins as i want waiting for me in heaven. if you don't agree with me then get yourself a boyrfriend.

but, little boys in heaven? lol. you make me laugh. very stupid little boy you are. how old are you?

do you really believe a pure God will give you virgins to **** in heaven. you are ****ing sick and everyone that believes that is sick in the head. so while in earth you make your women wear headscarfs and try to be all prude. and you are saying heaven, is a place of depravity. sick ****s. well maybe it has to do with the fact that mohammed was a child rapist who wed a 9 year old. the seeds never fall far from the tree i guess.

amrbassiouny
04-15-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
do you really believe a pure God will give you virgins to **** in heaven. you are ****ing sick and everyone that believes that is sick in the head. so while in earth you make your women wear headscarfs and try to be all prude. and you are saying heaven, is a place of depravity. sick ****s. well maybe it has to do with the fact that mohammed was a child rapist who wed a 9 year old. the seeds never fall far from the tree i guess.

1) the Quran/God never says women should wear headscarves. it only says that they should cover their chests as a minimum. but being as great as it is it can be interpreted in different ways for different times and places...and the prophet decided that wearing a head-scarf was best for his time.

2) mohammed was a child rapist? ok. you seem to be VERY stupid and underinformed/misinformed when it comes to islam. now, retard (i'll call u that from now on). why did mohammed marry the number of women that he married? if you can answer this question i'll stop calling you retard.

3) its heaven!!!!! why can't i have sex?! are you stupid?! its not like i'll be raping women on earth...its like having dreams of having sex with women! you are stupid!

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
1) the Quran/God never says women should wear headscarves. it only says that they should cover their chests as a minimum. but being as great as it is it can be interpreted in different ways for different times and places...and the prophet decided that wearing a head-scarf was best for his time.

2) mohammed was a child rapist? ok. you seem to be VERY stupid and underinformed/misinformed when it comes to islam. now, retard (i'll call u that from now on). why did mohammed marry the number of women that he married? if you can answer this question i'll stop calling you retard.

3) its heaven!!!!! why can't i have sex?! are you stupid?! its not like i'll be raping women on earth...its like having dreams of having sex with women! you are stupid!
and you are a sick mother****er. so your whole incentive to go to heaven is to have slaves. treat them like sh** like you do here. keep them as sex slaves so you can fullfill your x-rated fantasies. seems mohammed came up with that stuff cuz he knew all his arab followers were sick ****s like him and this would delight at such a message, die for allah and you will have virgins to FU** in heaven. he knew they would fall for it.

everytime he wanted to come do some perverse shyt. he would mysteriously get a revelation that God had approved of it.

in islams men go to heaven and the majority of people in hell are what ? women. no wonder women are so submissive in islam they are horrified.

The Prophet said, "I stood at the gate of Paradise and saw that the majority of the people who entered it were the poor, while the wealthy were stopped at the gate (for the accounts). But the companions of the Fire were ordered to be taken to the Fire. Then I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women."

Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' "


and mohammed first wife was what 6 year old? what kind of sick shyt is this.

amrbassiouny
04-15-2004, 09:57 AM
well, about the women and hell...go home don't waste my time. does that also mean that rich men are going to go to hell for being rich? NO, its becuase they do wrong acts. don't waste my time on this pls...i'm a busy man.


Originally posted by aserecuba
and mohammed first wife was what 6 year old? what kind of sick shyt is this.

BEEEEEEEEEEP.

WROOONNNNNNGGGGGG.

you will retain your title of retard. the legal age for marriage according to the Quran is after puberty. the prophet married aisha when she was 9, not 6. and yes, today that is abnormal, but if you know anything about pre-islamic arabia it was very very common to find people marrying at that age and it was even more common to find men marrying just as many women as they wanted (islam put an end to that though). so marrying at that age wasn't really a demented thing to do at that time, it was quite normal, in fact it was uncommon to find that not to be the case! you didn't answer my question!!!!!!! WHY DID HE MARRY THE NUMBER OF WOMEN THAT HE MARRIED?

be direct and simple. don't start blabbling on about some other nonesense. just answer the question. if you want to talk about anything other than the thread subject then start a new thread. don't waste our/my time.

amrbassiouny
04-15-2004, 10:03 AM
anyways i'm going to sleep now. you are a waste of time. and time equals money. hence you are wasting my money. now go away and find yourself a good gay brothel to live in.

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 10:11 AM
Sura 33:30) "O Consorts of the Prophet if any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah."

doesnt change the fact that they were all ****philes, no wonder its in the Qurann his sick mind put it in there.

and about women going to hell. it clearly says that the MAJORITY ( do you know what this mean retard?) of people in hell are women. very effective way to keep women in submission is it.

Sura 33:30) "O Consorts of the Prophet if any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah."
not very fair is it?

Hafsa, one of the Prophet's wives, however, caught him having intercourse with Maria in Safiya's room. 'O Prophet of God, in my room and in my day!' fulminated Safiya angrily. Afraid of the anger of his other wives, and especially of his most beloved Ayesha, he promised Hafsa never to touch Maria again if she would keep the incident secret (Ibid., p. 213). But she spoke out, and the Prophet immediately received orders from God to retract his promise to Safiya; he then resumed relations with Maria (Sura 66:3).

islam's concept of God is a sick one. but like i said the seed never falls far from the tree. and as to why mohammed married so many women it was because he was a sick mother****er. whenever he wanted to add another 5 women to his collection he would get a "revelation from God"

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
anyways i'm going to sleep now. you are a waste of time. and time equals money. hence you are wasting my money. now go away and find yourself a good gay brothel to live in.

dont get mad because im spitting the truth about this piece of crap religion you call islam. go work so you can buy yourself a plug you'll need it when you are being raped in the ass.

and to other muslims outhere, not trying to offend you but if you really think llike the ambasor guy above me then you deserve it. to the other good musims out there im sure there is many as i have a couple muslim friends myself. peace. this was only a rant towards those that believe they will rape virgins in heaven for eternity.

Cogar
04-15-2004, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
and your point is? they are not kidnapping soldiers they are kidnapping cameramen and your everyday citizen.
I noticed that the brilliant Mr. amrbassiouny never replied to your observation, aserecuba. Apparently his mind must have overheated. ;)

15u
04-15-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
anyways i'm going to sleep now. you are a waste of time. and time equals money. hence you are wasting my money. now go away and find yourself a good gay brothel to live in.

nice give up line. you realize aserecuba is beating you in this discussion, so you say you are leaving to go to sleep :rolleyes:

you can't compare our liberation of iraq to world war 2. when germans invaded france, they were trying to take over the world. usa went into iraq to get rid of the unjust leader. the french were actually in danger and had a reason to defend themselves, whereas the iraqis don't.

don't make your comparison to china invading the usa. the us government doesn't treat its people like crap. our leader doesn't test weapons on groups of people he doesn't like. its nothing like how saddam treated his people.

you have made really stupid comparisons. stfu :mad:

buggy
04-15-2004, 10:37 AM
I cant beleive how ignorant most of you guys are, i usually try to stay out of these posts but this time i wont.. Aserecuba you are a retard, you know nothing about the religion your bashing so its best you shut up.. Another point ofcourse if someone is going to invade my land im going to fight for it and defend it as ever possible that i can.

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by buggy
I cant beleive how ignorant most of you guys are, i usually try to stay out of these posts but this time i wont.. Aserecuba you are a retard, you know nothing about the religion your bashing so its best you shut up.. Another point ofcourse if someone is going to invade my land im going to fight for it and defend it as ever possible that i can.
really what dont i know about your relligion. are those verses i posted fake? open up your books little boy they are there?
stfu do you also believe you will rape virgins in heaven?

Coliones
04-15-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
and then the freedom fighters can just start blowing **** up in italy. great idea.

i personally support them. wether they kill people or not its for a just cause and the italians have no right to be in there nor does any part of the coalition of the poodles (of the US).

So you're saying you're a terrorist? :mad:

So it's ok for these "freedom fighters" to kidnap, innocent civilians and execute them AND TAPE THE ****ING EXECUTION so they can all get their jollies off of it and send it to stations to prove they did it!!!!! That's NOT freedom fighting its called TERRORISM .. and you supporting them makes you a terrorist as well ... go suck a grenade.

You've got a really ****ed up sense o reality.

buggy
04-15-2004, 12:15 PM
hey ase so that means ill be raping your mum.. Sounds good to me

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by buggy
hey ase so that means ill be raping your mum.. Sounds good to me
great comeback :rolls eyes: took you what 2 hours to come up with this kindergarden attempt at being funny.

dave22
04-15-2004, 12:38 PM
Don't worry everyone, amrbassiouny's just a little pissed because his culture and people haven't contributed **** for the past 700 years. How many major universities are in the middle east?? What about health care?? Saddam himself wouldn't even get an operation from a muslim, he had it taken care of by a French doctor, and their armies have gotten their asses kicked in just about every war they fought in this century.

These are a people that believe that Israel rules the world, and is behind everything. Like 9-11.

Woden
04-15-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by dave22
Don't worry everyone, amrbassiouny's just a little pissed because his culture and people haven't contributed **** for the past 700 years. How many major universities are in the middle east?? What about health care?? Saddam himself wouldn't even get an operation from a muslim, he had it taken care of by a French doctor, and their armies have gotten their asses kicked in just about every war they fought in this century.

These are a people that believe that Israel rules the world, and is behind everything. Like 9-11.

Bump. The Middle East is just a worthless pile of sand. Once alternative energy is developed we should just pull everyone out and try to contain that ****-hole.

Coliones
04-15-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Woden
Bump. The Middle East is just a worthless pile of sand. Once alternative energy is developed we should just pull everyone out and try to contain that ****-hole.

Contain? Just build a wall around it and fill it with water :D

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 02:20 PM
lol

t0mmy
04-15-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
and then the freedom fighters can just start blowing **** up in italy. great idea.

i personally support them. wether they kill people or not its for a just cause and the italians have no right to be in there nor does any part of the coalition of the poodles (of the US).

ur a *** and it's ppl like u that bring shame on all us arabs. Go get a life ***got and learn some morals. KIlling someone just because they are trying to help you is not a justification to kill.

So this is what Iraqis do with freedom? I conclude that they do not deserve freedom. BRING BACK SADDAM!!

dave22
04-15-2004, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by t0mmy
ur a *** and it's ppl like u that bring shame on all us arabs. Go get a life ***got and learn some morals. KIlling someone just because they are trying to help you is not a justification to kill.

So this is what Iraqis do with freedom? I conclude that they do not deserve freedom. BRING BACK SADDAM!!

Are you really an ex-Iraqi citizen?? Because I can't imagine any Iraqi, unless their family was a Sunni in the Baath party, ever supporting Saddam.

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 08:40 PM
when he said bring back saddam he meant give the iraquis hell. if that is what they want, if they want a dictator. then give it to them and let them kill each other.

CITADEL
04-15-2004, 08:45 PM
Please excuse my ignorance, but if Islam is such a peaceful religion like so many here claim it is, then where the hell are the leaders of Islam condeming these extremeists and telling them they will NOT go to heaven for pulling this bull****. Arn't there any top dogs in the religion that can tell these morons what to do? I mean they are already brainwashed enough by religion, they should be willing to listen to someone above them in that religion.

aserecuba
04-15-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Please excuse my ignorance, but if Islam is such a peaceful religion like so many here claim it is, then where the hell are the leaders of Islam condeming these extremeists and telling them they will NOT go to heaven for pulling this bull****. Arn't there any top dogs in the religion that can tell these morons what to do? I mean they are already brainwashed enough by religion, they should be willing to listen to someone above them in that religion.

all the top dogs believe the same thing. you see according to islam. you could be the best person in the world and still not gain entrance into heaven. in islam its all up to God if you are admitted or not. the only sure way 100% foolproof of entering heaven is through Jihad? why do you think they are so eager to die? it seems to me this would be a nice tactic of mohammed to tell his followers die in battle and you will go to heaven for sure. very fitting if you needed a strong-willed army to conquer the world.

Al_Bundy
04-15-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by dave22
Are you really an ex-Iraqi citizen?? Because I can't imagine any Iraqi, unless their family was a Sunni in the Baath party, ever supporting Saddam.

I take it you are unfamiliar with sarcasm....

t0mmy
04-16-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Are you really an ex-Iraqi citizen?? Because I can't imagine any Iraqi, unless their family was a Sunni in the Baath party, ever supporting Saddam.

lol no i was joking that i am an iraqi citizen.

And I am glad my mother is Christian and fled that corrupted land known as "Egypt". Look how much better it is in Australia.. When will these idiots learn?

CITADEL
04-16-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
all the top dogs believe the same thing. you see according to islam. you could be the best person in the world and still not gain entrance into heaven. in islam its all up to God if you are admitted or not. the only sure way 100% foolproof of entering heaven is through Jihad? why do you think they are so eager to die? it seems to me this would be a nice tactic of mohammed to tell his followers die in battle and you will go to heaven for sure. very fitting if you needed a strong-willed army to conquer the world.

So how can someone claim Islam is a religion of peace if even the top people in Islam believe in this hostage taking bull****, and 'Jihad'? There are several Muslims on this board I wish would answer, and tell me who the top people in Islam are and what they are doing to end the wrongdoings in their religion, that's if they are even doing that.

Jcfreak_02
04-16-2004, 11:49 AM
I just saw the TV version of Swordfish, I think there is an interesting foreign policy in that. Kill a troop, bomb a house, kill a civilian, bomb a city, ect. Make the punishment for starting violence so severe that one would not be willing to start the violence.

BTW, to not bow down to terrorist demands is standard policy from my understanding. To show that one is willing to bend over to protect individual lives invites more hostile attacks to the individual's lives. After all, if terrorists knew they could get what they want through taking hostages and killing them, why would they stop taking hostages?

Cogar
04-16-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
So how can someone claim Islam is a religion of peace if even the top people in Islam believe in this hostage taking bull****, and 'Jihad'? There are several Muslims on this board I wish would answer, and tell me who the top people in Islam are and what they are doing to end the wrongdoings in their religion, that's if they are even doing that.
I am not a Muslim, but let me give you the quick answer. The Qur'an was written in two time periods. The first part was dictated in Mecca (Mohammed did not write), and promoted peace. The religion of Islam went nowhere and Mohammed ended up having to leave Mecca (my paraphrase). Mohammed moved to Medina and dictated the rest of the Qur'an. This second portion was much more warlike and the religion caught on. A substantial portion of the Mecca writings were abrogated and therefore no longer apply. In the process of abrogation, "less accurate" text (some Mecca text) is replaced by "more accurate" text (some Medina text). The replaced text is referred to as "mansukh" and the text that replaces it is referred to as "nasikh." Note: all of the text is still there. They just ignore the mansukh--the most famous portion of which is the "satanic verses."

FatFat Bastard
04-16-2004, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Cogar
I am not a Muslim, but let me give you the quick answer. The Qur'an was written in two time periods. The first part was dictated in Mecca (Mohammed did not write), and promoted peace. The religion of Islam went nowhere and Mohammed ended up having to leave Mecca (my paraphrase). Mohammed moved to Medina and dictated the rest of the Qur'an. This second portion was much more warlike and the religion caught on. A substantial portion of the Mecca writings were abrogated and therefore no longer apply. In the process of abrogation, "less accurate" text (some Mecca text) is replaced by "more accurate" text (some Medina text). The replaced text is referred to as "mansukh" and the text that replaces it is referred to as "nasikh." Note: all of the text is still there. They just ignore the mansukh--the most famous portion of which is the "satanic verses."

makes some sense intresting
were did you read this? source if you don't mind

by the way in Islam the world Jihad does not mean holy war...
It means exertion
or moving closer toward acompliting a certain goal...

there are two kinds of Jihad major and minor
Major jihad is a muslims strugle against himself, against own sin
Minor jihad is strugle against the preseved enemies of Islam

Jihad is not legaly possible against another muslim country
but it was practiced during the Iraq-Iran war.

SYRIANKID
04-16-2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Cogar
I am not a Muslim, but let me give you the quick answer. The Qur'an was written in two time periods. The first part was dictated in Mecca (Mohammed did not write), and promoted peace. The religion of Islam went nowhere and Mohammed ended up having to leave Mecca (my paraphrase). Mohammed moved to Medina and dictated the rest of the Qur'an. This second portion was much more warlike and the religion caught on. A substantial portion of the Mecca writings were abrogated and therefore no longer apply. In the process of abrogation, "less accurate" text (some Mecca text) is replaced by "more accurate" text (some Medina text). The replaced text is referred to as "mansukh" and the text that replaces it is referred to as "nasikh." Note: all of the text is still there. They just ignore the mansukh--the most famous portion of which is the "satanic verses."

This is not entirely accurate bro. A minor clarification is that the Qur'an wasn't revealed in a "first part" and "second part," but instead some chapters were revealed in Meccah and some in Medina.

As for "abrogations," these dealt with legal points and rites which had not yet been revealed in Meccah. In Medina many more Islamic laws were revealed. For example, in the very begining of revelation alcohol was not permitted before prayer, which was abrogated later by the "more accurate" and complete prohibition of alcohol. This divine easement, including for example prayers being "abrogated" from 50 to 5, was a mercy to believers and aided their transition from the darknesses of pagan Arabia.

However, the alleged "satanic verses" were not a famous instance of "abrogation" because it's not true that they were even revealed or were stated at any point by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Click on the link to read why and how the orientalist version of the story differs from the one transmitted by the traditionalists:

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org/Controversies.asp

Peace

Cogar
04-16-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by FatFat Bastard
makes some sense intresting
were did you read this? source if you don't mind
I do not have a single source, and I did not pick up what I stated from the Internet. It came out of my head. :) If you search for Quran, Mecca, Medina, and abrogated, you will come up with articles like this one:

http://debate.org.uk/topics/theo/dispute.htm

I did not read through the entire document, but did scan it briefly to see its basic tone. (I wanted to find an example that looked like it covered the facts without promoting Islam or damning it.) For example, it states, "At the most obvious level we can see this in the fact that in the early years of Islam, Muhammad was a minority preacher in Mecca, concerning himself with almost solely theological and moral/social issues, but when he moved to Medina, he became the Governmental Executive, and so his revelations began to address legal, political and economic matters." Therefore, that sentence does say something similar to that which I know to be true--although you do not have to accept my word for it. I do not know if the entire article or site is good or poor, but merely used it as an online example to get you started.

Starsky
04-16-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
let me ask you something.

lets say China doesn't like bush and the way he treats people at guantanamo bay, and says that the bush is a thread to world peace and china's security. then he attacks the USA after 10 years of crippling sanctions.

answer this. would it be legal for you to kill chinese men which are occupying your land? well, it seemed legal for the french to kill germans when they occupied their country, why is it not legal for iraqis to kill americans or italians who are in their country?


The difference is we aren't being crisscrossed by anti-Chinese agents who want to and have historically tried to use chemical, nuclear, or biological weapons on China for religious reasons. We aren't sending $25,000 to the family of anyone who kills a Chinese and we didn't invade Tibet and then get kicked out by a multi-national, Chinese-led force. We didn't send helicopter gunships to kill ethnic Chinese or Chinese allies in America etc.

Your comparison doesn't offer much in the way of parallels.

Starsky
04-16-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by amrbassiouny
the legal age for marriage according to the Quran is after puberty. the prophet married aisha when she was 9, not 6. and yes, today that is abnormal, but if you know anything about pre-islamic arabia it was very very common to find people marrying at that age and it was even more common to find men marrying just as many women as they wanted (islam put an end to that though).?



So Mohammed marrying a 9 year old was true all along? In the 21st century thats what we call a child molestor.

CITADEL
04-16-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Cogar
I am not a Muslim, but let me give you the quick answer. The Qur'an was written in two time periods. The first part was dictated in Mecca (Mohammed did not write), and promoted peace. The religion of Islam went nowhere and Mohammed ended up having to leave Mecca (my paraphrase). Mohammed moved to Medina and dictated the rest of the Qur'an. This second portion was much more warlike and the religion caught on. A substantial portion of the Mecca writings were abrogated and therefore no longer apply. In the process of abrogation, "less accurate" text (some Mecca text) is replaced by "more accurate" text (some Medina text). The replaced text is referred to as "mansukh" and the text that replaces it is referred to as "nasikh." Note: all of the text is still there. They just ignore the mansukh--the most famous portion of which is the "satanic verses."

OK thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure if you answered my question. You make it sound like that Islam isn't a religon of peace but is warlike, and if that's the case why do so many claim it's a religion of peace? And who the hell are the top people in Islam? Has anyone of any significance condemed these senseless acts of violence, and if not, why not?

dave22
04-16-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
So Mohammed marrying a 9 year old was true all along? In the 21st century thats what we call a child molestor.

LMAO!!!!!! That's classic man.

TranceNRG
04-16-2004, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by dave22
LMAO!!!!!! That's classic man.


hey dave

are you and starsky one person?

everyone anything under starsky's name is posted you bump it up

I thought maybe you're one person and you just switch user ID

:D

lol

aserecuba
04-16-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
So Mohammed marrying a 9 year old was true all along? In the 21st century thats what we call a child molestor.
what you thought it was fake. and it was 6 when he took her 9 when he married her i think.

dave22
04-17-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
hey dave

are you and starsky one person?

everyone anything under starsky's name is posted you bump it up

I thought maybe you're one person and you just switch user ID

:D

lol

Only if he says something funny.

Cogar
04-17-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
OK thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure if you answered my question. You make it sound like that Islam isn't a religon of peace but is warlike, and if that's the case why do so many claim it's a religion of peace?
It may be sarcasm. Some Muslims are truly peaceful. Still, I recall John Walker Lindh stated the Taliban was one of the few Muslim groups that accurately followed Islam or the Qur'an (I forgot how he phrased it), which is the reason he joined them. Of course, that is his opinion, but it does provide food for thought.


Originally posted by CITADEL
And who the hell are the top people in Islam? Has anyone of any significance condemed these senseless acts of violence, and if not, why not?
To the best of my knowledge, the imams (the men who lead the prayers in mosques) are considered the spiritual guides, but that may vary between sects. Not many Muslim leaders have condemned terrorist attacks, but a few have:
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php