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TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 01:00 AM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

The.Giant
04-14-2004, 01:09 AM
I'd save my own life.

I've only known my best friend for a couple years and I can serve the world better than he could :D

The.Giant
04-14-2004, 01:10 AM
Oh yeah, im not an athiest so i guess you can disregard my post :D

Mw6wW
04-14-2004, 01:29 AM
Why is this for athiests only.

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 01:44 AM
Because I want to know the athiestic reasoning.

I can probably guess the religious side.

The Kurgan
04-14-2004, 04:17 AM
I'd take the bullet, if I didn't have time to think about it. If I had time to "think it over" I'd probably chicken out. I've been shot before and it was an insanely terrible experience, and that was just with an Air Rifle.

CITADEL
04-14-2004, 05:56 AM
Are you trying to say an Atheist might run while a religious person would stay? I hope that's not the case. My best friend of almost 3 years is my gf, and yeah I would take a bullet to save her, at least I'm 99% sure I would. You will never know unless you are put into that situation and your instincts take over.

Spastic
04-14-2004, 06:09 AM
I'm not an athiest, but I wouldn't take a bullet for a best friend.

dmbfan1
04-14-2004, 07:27 AM
i can see his reasoning, he just didn't go into enough detail.

In Christian thinking "there is no greater love than to lay down one's life for a friend" John 15:13. Now, this is not to say every Christian would do this, but that is where the bar is set. Supposedly, this is quaranteed admittance to heaven, having sacrifeced everything for another, as Jesus did. In my opinion, not many people would do this.

I believe the question he is asking is that, if you are atheist, and do not believe in any type of life after death, would you give your life for your best friend? And he wishes to know why or why not. A fair question, but i'm not sure it is one that many people can answer.

honeybbqgrundle
04-14-2004, 11:28 AM
The Bible says that because it's natural human instinct to protect your friends and loved ones. A bullet is a little extreme, but the basic idea is the same. It's not like the Bible just made it up and religious people changed their ways while atheists remained selfish:rolleyes:

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by The Kurgan
I'd take the bullet, if I didn't have time to think about it. If I had time to "think it over" I'd probably chicken out. I've been shot before and it was an insanely terrible experience, and that was just with an Air Rifle.


I c
why would you take a bullet w/o thinking though?

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Are you trying to say an Atheist might run while a religious person would stay? I hope that's not the case. My best friend of almost 3 years is my gf, and yeah I would take a bullet to save her, at least I'm 99% sure I would. You will never know unless you are put into that situation and your instincts take over.


why would you take a bullet?

I want to know the reason?!
why would you end your life?!

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by dmbfan1

I believe the question he is asking is that, if you are atheist, and do not believe in any type of life after death, would you give your life for your best friend? And he wishes to know why or why not. A fair question, but i'm not sure it is one that many people can answer.


smart :D

CITADEL
04-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
why would you take a bullet?

I want to know the reason?!
why would you end your life?!

Beause it's a natural instinct to protect those you love. Might sound a little sappy, but I'd rather die than watch her die and know that I could have stopped it.

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Beause it's a natural instinct to protect those you love. Might sound a little sappy, but I'd rather die than watch her die and know that I could have stopped it.

I see... so a natural reason is to love
but from a athiests point of, isn't it pointless?

why die and become dirt when you can live longer.

CITADEL
04-14-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
I see... so a natural reason is to love
but from a athiests point of, isn't it pointless?

why die and become dirt when you can live longer.

No it's not pointless. If I lived and she died because of me being selfish I could not live with myself, literally. It's a natural instinct to live and remain alive and a key part of living is loving. However it's also natural to protect those you love. It all goes hand in hand.

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
No it's not pointless. If I lived and she died because of me being selfish I could not live with myself, literally. It's a natural instinct to live and remain alive and a key part of living is loving. However it's also natural to protect those you love. It all goes hand in hand.

would you say you'd feel guilty, knowing you could have saved her but you didn't?

Jcfreak_02
04-14-2004, 12:22 PM
Like most of these posts we can never be sure what we would do until the oppertunity presents itself. I would be willing to die for a friend and I would like to even expand it to say I am willing to die for anyone I think is not a Christian. I know where I am going to go when I die, but for the person that I do not know, if I can preserve their life and they can understand why I gave my life for them.

CITADEL
04-14-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
would you say you'd feel guilty, knowing you could have saved her but you didn't?

Of course, I think most people would when it comes to someone they are close to. However, as much as I love my parents I don't know if I could give my life to save theirs. I wouldn't expect my own children to give up their lives to save me. Would you give your life to save one of your parents?

CITADEL
04-14-2004, 12:30 PM
Another question. Who goes to heaven, a person who doesn't believe in a God but gives his life to save another, or a religious person who finds his own life more important and does not? Or do they both go to hell?

CerealKiller
04-14-2004, 01:28 PM
Wasn't aware "taking a bullet" or "running away" was an athiestic issue.

Always thought it was an issue of bravery vs. cowardice. Oh well live and learn.

AnotherScorpion
04-14-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by CerealKiller
Wasn't aware "taking a bullet" or "running away" was an athiestic issue.

Always thought it was an issue of bravery vs. cowardice. Oh well live and learn.

Bump!

AnotherScorpion
04-14-2004, 01:46 PM
Atheist here and to answer the question....Yes I might do it if it WORTH IT saving this person life!!

nitr0x
04-14-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by CerealKiller
Wasn't aware "taking a bullet" or "running away" was an athiestic issue.

Always thought it was an issue of bravery vs. cowardice. Oh well live and learn.

So if someone doesnt take a bullet for a loved one they are a coward? I wouldnt take a bullet for my dad, because I'd rather have him die than have him go through the pain of watching me die. Am i a coward?

CerealKiller
04-14-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by nitr0x
So if someone doesnt take a bullet for a loved one they are a coward? I wouldnt take a bullet for my dad, because I'd rather have him die than have him go through the pain of watching me die. Am i a coward?

Well I don't know. I never thought of it that way.

Ruthless4Life
04-14-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
why would you take a bullet?

I want to know the reason?!
why would you end your life?!

Technically it's not ending his life. He's going to apply for residence in heaven for eternity, and taking a bullet for a friend is going to look good on his resume when God reads it.

Ruthless4Life
04-14-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by nitr0x
So if someone doesnt take a bullet for a loved one they are a coward? I wouldnt take a bullet for my dad, because I'd rather have him die than have him go through the pain of watching me die. Am i a coward?

That's over analyzing. When this happens you only have a split second to act, not enough time to think of a reason. So your initial reaction would be no.

XEastCoastHateX
04-14-2004, 04:33 PM
I beat the guy ass with the gun and shot him

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Of course, I think most people would when it comes to someone they are close to. However, as much as I love my parents I don't know if I could give my life to save theirs. I wouldn't expect my own children to give up their lives to save me. Would you give your life to save one of your parents?


Yes I would, definitely

Why would you feel guilty?
you saved your life and you didn't kill him.
so why guilty?

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by CITADEL
Another question. Who goes to heaven, a person who doesn't believe in a God but gives his life to save another, or a religious person who finds his own life more important and does not? Or do they both go to hell?


I don't think religious people have their lives as much.

They believe their lives are created by God and it should be guided toward whichever God wants to go.

If the worse comes to worse, every religious person would rather die for his/her God than reject his/her faith.

bts327
04-14-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

Im no atheist, but it doesnt matter.

1)no
2)yes...

...because what point would I be proving by jumping in front of a gun? Should I cause my parents and the people close to me the pain of losing me because of some ideal that I held myself to?

The Kurgan
04-15-2004, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
I c
why would you take a bullet w/o thinking though?

I think you have to remember that there is not atheist morality. Atheism is a matter of rejecting all religion, much in the same way religious people reject all religions apart from theirs. From then on, many people cultivate their own ideals and ethics. For example, I'm what you might call a Socialist Humanist, and at the base of my morality is a deep love for all humans (Platonic, of course).

dmbfan1
04-15-2004, 06:17 AM
[i]
If the worse comes to worse, every religious person would rather die for his/her God than reject his/her faith. [/B]

careful how you say that buddy. I can promise you that not everyone who sits in a pew each sunday would do this. If we are not talking about immediate relatives here (children, wife), i feel the majority of people would allow it to happen to a friend. Course i'm kind of a cynic.:)

dmbfan1
04-15-2004, 06:20 AM
plus we are not neccessarily talkin about rejecting faith. you didn't ask, "if someone had a gun to your head and asked you to reject your faith or die". I read it as going out of your way to put yourself in front of a bullet for someone else. that is more a bravery/personal convictions thing.

Anyway, you didn't ask about religious, you asked about atheists..so i'll shut up now.

Radiomanic
01-15-2009, 04:27 AM
I might say on here i'd take the bullet, but if it came down to it i'd probably run and save myself. The majority of people would definitely run, but if it was my kid or one of my brothers or sisters i'd take the bullet.

(no strong bump)

Arbex
01-15-2009, 04:29 AM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

Save my life, obviously.

jf1
01-15-2009, 04:31 AM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

sorry, but those two options are not sufficient.
3) attempt to aid your friend, even with major risk to yourself.

would i purposefully jump in the path of a bullet fired at a friend?
probably not.

would i attempt to help a friend while risking getting shot?
probably.

stateless
01-15-2009, 04:35 AM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

I don't like to label myself, but i'm not particularly religious.

I'd take a bullet for a friend or family member. I'm not sure if that is altruistic though. It could be because I would struggle to live with the thought that I'd let someone close to me be killed.

EDIT: Though preferably there would be an option 3 as jackfast1 states. That way at least there is a chance that the bravery would be rewarded.

StartTheMachine
01-15-2009, 04:41 AM
I fail to see the relevance.

LunicaAshes
01-15-2009, 04:47 AM
This depends.

Do I get his rep power if he dies?

Quest.
01-15-2009, 04:50 AM
I'd save my life, then come back for revenge on whoever took his.

tenthirtytwo
01-15-2009, 06:23 AM
They believe their lives are created by God and it should be guided toward whichever God wants to go.

If the worse comes to worse, every religious person would rather die for his/her God than reject his/her faith.

So the "friend" in this scenario is a god?

I'm confused at what relevance religion has to taking a bullet for someone.

If you are implying that a religious person would sacrifice themselves because they have paradise waiting, then why wouldn't religious people all kill themselves? Or, at least, why wouldn't they do the most dangerous things possible all the time?

How do you know in this scenario that God wants you to sacrifice yourself? Do you speak for God? Do you claim to know his will? Would the friend not feel like God wants him to sacrifice himself for you? Which one of you is wrong? How could we tell?

HatesFat
01-15-2009, 06:53 AM
I see... so a natural reason is to love
but from a athiests point of, isn't it pointless?

why die and become dirt when you can live longer.

Atheist and I would probably take the bullet.

Slight misunderstanding of what being an atheist means.

Atheism isn't a moral and ethical code in and of itself, it's just a statement of reality, it is DESCRIPTIVE. It doesn't have a PRESCRIPTIVE component.

Many atheists though, are also Secular Humanists. Secular Humanism contains a prescriptive morals and ethics.

One component of secular humanism is altruism and another is enlightened self-interest. I'm pretty sure both of these jive with taking a bullet for your best friend, although they don't require it, especially if one cares a lot for the future well-being of one's friends and family.

In the case of atheists, one could argue that this act would be even MORE selfless than in a theist's case.

GregariousWolf
01-15-2009, 07:13 AM
As if atheism has anything to do with courage or self-sacrifice.

Rune
01-15-2009, 08:34 AM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

I love my best friend like a brother, we've been through a lot of things together so #2 is not even an option, I would do whatever it took to help him out, even if that includes death.

bamatank
01-15-2009, 08:36 AM
I would pull out my wang and distract everyone. I'm atheist so it isn't sinful for me to show my junk.

DaCougarMech
01-15-2009, 10:29 AM
funny how the answers are mixed on both sides

the power of religion, indeed :rolleyes:

Boffman
01-15-2009, 10:35 AM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

If I chose #1 it would be hard to live with myself, knowing that I abandoned a friend just to save myself.

If I chose #2 I would obviously not be around anymore.

It really depends on how good the friend is.

blip63
01-15-2009, 10:38 AM
My best friend is my dog. The answer is yes.

ZenBowman
01-15-2009, 10:41 AM
sorry, but those two options are not sufficient.
3) attempt to aid your friend, even with major risk to yourself.

would i purposefully jump in the path of a bullet fired at a friend?
probably not.

would i attempt to help a friend while risking getting shot?
probably.

I agree. In fact, Trance, would substituting your death for your friends be permissible in Islam? I have heard that for example, organ donation is allowed, as long as it is reasonably safe, but if it will lead to death, it is forbidden (i.e. a living person is allowed to donate a kidney but not a heart).

I think option 3 is crucial, this is what I would do. Attempt to help, if I fail, that is God's will.

jf1
01-15-2009, 10:53 AM
I agree. In fact, Trance, would substituting your death for your friends be permissible in Islam? I have heard that for example, organ donation is allowed, as long as it is reasonably safe, but if it will lead to death, it is forbidden (i.e. a living person is allowed to donate a kidney but not a heart).

I think option 3 is crucial, this is what I would do. Attempt to help, if I fail, that is God's will.

i certainly would not attribute it to 'gods will'...but i find it interesting that we agree on this topic!
:)

user23960508710783
01-15-2009, 12:02 PM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

The implication seems to be that atheists cannot or do not conceive of a value higher than their own personal life; and, conversely, that religious people do.

I don't agree with that implication. I don't see any incoherency involved in an atheist positing a value or a cause as being higher than his own life. For example, maybe in a political movement or in a war, a person might give his own life because he believes that the political movement or the war is much more important than his own life. It happens; maybe not often, but it happens.

squanto
01-15-2009, 12:12 PM
I'd take the bullet.

Operating under the assumption that these are the only two choices and that the outcome of mine would be my friend living, of course. I couldn't live with myself otherwise.

1devil
01-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Let's say your best friend is at a gun point?

there are two options:
1) take a bullet for him and die
2) run and save your own life

which one would you pick and why?

I have a wife and three kids. My love for them, and sense of resposibility for their well being supercedes any other friendship. I would have to pass on taking a bullet for the friend. I would not hesitate to take a bullet for my wife or any of my children.

JBDW
01-15-2009, 12:26 PM
Without thinking? Probably take the bullet.

With thinking? Probably take the bullet.

Don't think I could live with the guilt of knowing I let my best friend die because I was too much of a coward to do anything about it. Of course, there are two things that should be said about this sort of thinking. One is what stateless said earlier, that it's a primarily selfish way of thinking, because it's self-directed (I would feel terrible if X). And two, is that I wouldn't know what I'd do in a real situation. Maybe I WOULD just chicken out and run.

LB42
01-15-2009, 12:31 PM
I really don't know.

hatchi
01-15-2009, 01:36 PM
I would take the bullet. I have no doubt in my mind.

I take friendship very seriously, and have a small small handful of people that I call my best friends. People I have ultimate trust in, and who have ultimate trust in me. People who I wouldn't hesitate to give anything to.

Remember these are not "bros and hunniz from dat party" these are people who have stuck with me through very hard times, when everyone else had left, and they were still there giving everything they had. What kind of person would I be if I didn't protect them with my life?

_TG_
01-15-2009, 02:00 PM
1) take a bullet for him and die

Its called loyalty to my friend.

ZenBowman
01-15-2009, 02:03 PM
I think the premise of this question is why would you save your friend if it didn't give you a reward in the afterlife. If you would only save your friend because it would mean a reward from God, then that line of thinking is more selfish than the action of an atheist who would give up his life just out of loyalty.

JAGERBOY
01-15-2009, 02:49 PM
Like Jackfast said, there needs to be one more option. I would likely not just run away, but try and help him even if that meant risking my own life. However, I wouldn't just lay my life down for a friend as a trade off. Sorry, I like to live, and this is all I got, so Id have to atleast go down with a fight. But playing into your two options, I'd run, just being honest. Point blank...I don't want to die yet.

revkins
01-15-2009, 03:09 PM
Would I take a bullet to save a friend? No, but that's because I don't love my friends. I would take a bullet for a family member because I couldn't live with myself if I knew that I had the option to save a life that I loved, but did nothing.

So it's my selfishness that would force me to take a bullet for a family member.

TranceNRG
01-15-2009, 10:18 PM
whoa... strong bump from almost 5 years ago.
5 years ago I wasn't as religious and had a very different mindset.

So, I'm not sure if I could continue the discussion properly anymore.
:o

adimare
01-15-2009, 10:38 PM
I see... so a natural reason is to love
but from a athiests point of, isn't it pointless?

why die and become dirt when you can live longer.

Try this thought experiment:

Imagine you live in an entirely different universe where you know for a fact there is no afterlife, would you take the bullet?

DaCougarMech
01-15-2009, 11:15 PM
whoa... strong bump from almost 5 years ago.
5 years ago I wasn't as religious and had a very different mindset.

So, I'm not sure if I could continue the discussion properly anymore.
:o

yeah, the language seemed more aggressive

TranceNRG
01-15-2009, 11:21 PM
yeah, the language seemed more aggressive

If you go over my posts from years ago 'til now, you'd notice a big (if not huge) difference. :)