PDA

View Full Version : Canada



DB15
04-12-2004, 01:42 PM
We Canada as a whole are simply put underachieving. This country has so much to offer and so much to gain, so why are we still considered a little brother of North America and not the big hitter that we should be. Is this what we as Canadians want or should we expect more from our government and our resources.

I want to hear what peoples opinions are on this topic, hopefully it will open our eyes to the new born baby that is our great country.

Canadian Nanook
04-12-2004, 02:49 PM
imo, I think that Canada is a great nation and it is more powerful than people give it credit. Canada is a peace keeping country, has a strong economy, is one of the best places in the world for standard of living, the only reason people underestimate us is because of our military. We do not have a very strong military. However, we do have one of the most secretive spy organizations in the world. No one knew about CSIS until after 9/11 and I am certain that we have nukes all throughout the Canadian Shield. I am certain of this because we have the largest Uranium supplies in the world and are supplying everyone with the CanDu reactors, built to harness nuclear power. We have large amounts of land that are uninhabited which are perfect to hide nukes in. Also, no one will attack us cause we never offend anyone. We are basically the layed back, mellow guy in the UN who wants peace and tells everyone to relax. We are the negotiators, i think that's much better than having people hate us, don't you?

DB15
04-12-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
We are the negotiators, i think that's much better than having people hate us, don't you?

Agreed but do you not see the fact that we could be much better off with the right kind of goverment I mean I rather Canada take care of us Canadains rather than focusing in on how we look to the rest of the world, but we even fail to do that come out to the east coast and youll know what I mean

Whingman
04-12-2004, 03:05 PM
becuase we are a one party state.

DB15
04-12-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Whingman
becuase we are a one party state.

Thats very true, hwo many terms have the liberals been in power for now 5 is it?

Crimson-Model
04-12-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
imo, I think that Canada is a great nation and it is more powerful than people give it credit. Canada is a peace keeping country, has a strong economy, is one of the best places in the world for standard of living, the only reason people underestimate us is because of our military. We do not have a very strong military. However, we do have one of the most secretive spy organizations in the world. No one knew about CSIS until after 9/11 and I am certain that we have nukes all throughout the Canadian Shield. I am certain of this because we have the largest Uranium supplies in the world and are supplying everyone with the CanDu reactors, built to harness nuclear power. We have large amounts of land that are uninhabited which are perfect to hide nukes in. Also, no one will attack us cause we never offend anyone. We are basically the layed back, mellow guy in the UN who wants peace and tells everyone to relax. We are the negotiators, i think that's much better than having people hate us, don't you?
Haha, Nanooks political opinions are dead on with mine. :D
People talk about the CIA, FBI, Mossad, former KGB, etc and no one ever mentions CSIS. ;)

Ak47
04-12-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
Also, no one will attack us cause we never offend anyone. We are basically the layed back, mellow guy in the UN who wants peace and tells everyone to relax. We are the negotiators, i think that's much better than having people hate us, don't you?

Actually canada is on the list of hated countries in more than one terrorist orginazation, including Al-Qaeda. I'm not really sure why, probably just because they fall into category with all of the other countries in the west.

Canadian Nanook
04-12-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by DB15
Agreed but do you not see the fact that we could be much better off with the right kind of goverment I mean I rather Canada take care of us Canadains rather than focusing in on how we look to the rest of the world, but we even fail to do that come out to the east coast and youll know what I mean

Of course Canada should focus internally before looking at how we look to the rest of the world but that's different forms of Government. Federally they work on foreign affairs while provincially they work on how the people are doing and worrying about Canadian society

Jimineye
04-12-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
Haha, Nanooks political opinions are dead on with mine. :D
People talk about the CIA, FBI, Mossad, former KGB, etc and no one ever mentions CSIS. ;)


Polar Bears and Moose make fine agents eh. :D :D


I've never heard of the CSIS.

Crimson-Model
04-12-2004, 11:29 PM
RAWR!!!

TranceNRG
04-13-2004, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by DB15
Agreed but do you not see the fact that we could be much better off with the right kind of goverment I mean I rather Canada take care of us Canadains rather than focusing in on how we look to the rest of the world, but we even fail to do that come out to the east coast and youll know what I mean


what kind of government?

both Liberals unedr Martin and coservatives will soon make us another American state.


I believe in Canada.
We are one of the greatest nation to live in.
we are tolerant, open-minded and much more fairly informed.
We don't need the strongest military. We don't need to become a super power to become better.

If American policies don't damage our economy, no other countries would.

we need a little better military in order to make us less dependent on US.
other than that we have everything else.

TranceNRG
04-13-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Ak47
Actually canada is on the list of hated countries in more than one terrorist orginazation, including Al-Qaeda. I'm not really sure why, probably just because they fall into category with all of the other countries in the west.


nah, they won't hurt us

the got their families living here :D

Willie_Bosket
04-13-2004, 03:27 AM
Canada is the mellow weed smoker who gets everybody to chill out. The USA is the violent molesting priest who beleives they are right because God is on their side.

DB15
04-13-2004, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
Of course Canada should focus internally before looking at how we look to the rest of the world but that's different forms of Government. Federally they work on foreign affairs while provincially they work on how the people are doing and worrying about Canadian society

Perhaps that is where the problem lay's then, perhaps instead of worring about who is in federal goverment the people of Canada should make their provincial goverment choices much more important.

t0mmy
04-13-2004, 05:05 AM
no-one knows enough about canada.. just like with Australia. We have bombs, planes, and one of the best secret service orgs (SAS -currently in iraq-) in the world, plus the most livable city (equal first with vancouver).

Canada will always be the little one of north America because, no matter how good the country is, u can't really compete with the almighty US of A

Willie_Bosket
04-13-2004, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by t0mmy
no-one knows enough about canada.. just like with Australia. We have bombs, planes, and one of the best secret service orgs (SAS -currently in iraq-) in the world, plus the most livable city (equal first with vancouver).

Canada will always be the little one of north America because, no matter how good the country is, u can't really compete with the almighty US of A
ASIO is more of a secret service.
SAS is military.

15u
04-13-2004, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Willie_Bosket
The USA is the violent molesting priest who beleives they are right because God is on their side.

the usa is the principal. they have to keep the peace, enforce the rules, and punish those who brake the rules, but all the students hate him

15u
04-13-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by 15u
the usa is the principal. they have to keep the peace, enforce the rules, and punish those who brake the rules, but all the students hate him

let me correct myself. the usa isn't the principal. the usa is the popular guy who gets all the girls and has the nicest car. all the other guys are jealous so they have to bad talk him ;)

Crimson-Model
04-13-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by 15u
let me correct myself. the usa isn't the principal. the usa is the popular guy who gets all the girls and has the nicest car. all the other guys are jealous so they have to bad talk him ;)
the same popular guy is severely obese.... :D


For the Canadians here, what do you think of the Qasim Kwajabi incident(I totally spelt his last name wrong, sorry). His brother was indicted by the Saudi govt and is held in detention over there thanks to the RCMP and CSIS...
He's from Ottawa too, I think he might go to my school :confused:

Personally, I don't think that what's happening to his family is fair. I thought the government would've smartened up and gathered some evidence before indicting someone, but they haven't learned from the Arar case...

Canadian Nanook
04-13-2004, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
the same popular guy is severely obese.... :D


For the Canadians here, what do you think of the Qasim Kwajabi incident(I totally spelt his last name wrong, sorry). His brother was indicted by the Saudi govt and is held in detention over there thanks to the RCMP and CSIS...
He's from Ottawa too, I think he might go to my school :confused:

Personally, I don't think that what's happening to his family is fair. I thought the government would've smartened up and gathered some evidence before indicting someone, but they haven't learned from the Arar case...

I've heard that CSIS has the evidence only they are not allowed to divulge it to the public now because there is still a small threat. I think that his rights are still being maintained and that if the RCMP had a reason to arrest him then it is fair

Canadian Nanook
04-13-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Jimineye
Polar Bears and Moose make fine agents eh. :D :D


I've never heard of the CSIS.
CSIS is basically an invisible spy. They listen in on all international conversations and decipher any plans to attack anywhere else. They also have agents all over the world and we have one of the best training camps in the world. It was open during WWII and it's named Camp X. They trained some of the most important spies of all time there. CSIS was the organization which told the US of a threat against their major bridges and of a possible attack on the white house

th3 gr34t3st
04-13-2004, 01:44 PM
USA is better than canada will ever be.

15u
04-13-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by th3 gr34t3st
USA is better than canada will ever be.

:D

Kane Fan
04-13-2004, 01:47 PM
you are not considered a big hitter because Canada is not a big hitter
have you seen your military spending recently?

there's lots of babbling that goes around about 'do the right thing' and 'honor over power' and 'might dosn't make right'
well in the real world that's a lot of bull****
you wanna be taken seriously in the real world you need guns, big ****ing guns
low military spending = low level of respect
simple as that

Crimson-Model
04-13-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by th3 gr34t3st
USA is better than canada will ever be.
You're right :rolleyes:

Kane Fan
04-13-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
what kind of government?

both Liberals unedr Martin and coservatives will soon make us another American state.


I believe in Canada.
We are one of the greatest nation to live in.
we are tolerant, open-minded and much more fairly informed.
We don't need the strongest military. We don't need to become a super power to become better.

If American policies don't damage our economy, no other countries would.

we need a little better military in order to make us less dependent on US.
other than that we have everything else.

fairly informed?
how is that exactly...
your government bans Fox News...
a government that tries to keep you ignorant dosn't qualify as well informed

Crimson-Model
04-13-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Kane Fan
fairly informed?
how is that exactly...
your government bans Fox News...
a government that tries to keep you ignorant dosn't qualify as well informed
KF, this isn't the wrestling forum, please think before you post something.
We get Fox News here...

Ruthless4Life
04-13-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Kane Fan
fairly informed?
how is that exactly...
your government bans Fox News...
a government that tries to keep you ignorant dosn't qualify as well informed

You are the ignorant and misinformed one for thinking we banned Fox News, dumbass. A government that tries to keep you ignorant about Canada doesn't qualify as well informed.

DB15
04-13-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Ruthless4Life
You are the ignorant and misinformed one for thinking we banned Fox News, dumbass. A government that tries to keep you ignorant about Canada doesn't qualify as well informed.

Well said

TranceNRG
04-13-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Kane Fan
fairly informed?
how is that exactly...
your government bans Fox News...
a government that tries to keep you ignorant dosn't qualify as well informed


fox news = al Jazeera

American propaganda Vs. Arab Propaganda

even if it was banned it'd be ok for most Canadians

batfonso
04-13-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
fox news = al Jazeera

American propaganda Vs. Arab Propaganda

even if it was banned it'd be ok for most Canadians

Does Canada ban it or not? Cause the other Canucks say no?

TranceNRG
04-13-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Ruthless4Life
You are the ignorant and misinformed one for thinking we banned Fox News, dumbass. A government that tries to keep you ignorant about Canada doesn't qualify as well informed.


BUMP ;)

For Canadians...

Do you guys think that repulican sect of American government is more ignorant than the democrat?! regarding world issues...

or the same ...

Crimson-Model
04-13-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
BUMP ;)

For Canadians...

Do you guys think that repulican sect of American government is more ignorant than the democrat?! regarding world issues...

or the same ...
I dunno, from what I've noticed-- it seems as though the conservatives are most often the close-minded ones that are afraid of change and only want the best for the top percentile of the population. The conservative way of thinking is initself strange, I know people who are my age who label themselves as 'conservatives' and are some of the most closeminded people in the world, they come off as inflexible and foolish. Their major flaw is the fact that they cannot put themselves in the shoes of the individual they're attacking and are therefore doomed to live with this way of thinking.

Democrats on the other hand are all for change and aceptanece, as long as it benefits them--they try to do anything to get reelected, they also propose social programs that will only keep the bottom percentile(the largest portion) of the population down, programs like social welfare only increase the gap between the rich and the poor. The thing is, the people who sometimes vote for democrats don't know that...or they don't care.
Democrats whine too much as well...
The major flaw with this group is that they know full well that social programs only increase inequalities and yet they try to come off as sympathetic to their fellow man, they also whine a lot...


*puts on Political Anti-Flame Suit*


'Gay Conservative in Office by 2064'. :D

Ruthless4Life
04-13-2004, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
I dunno, from what I've noticed-- it seems as though the conservatives are most often the close-minded ones that are afraid of change and only want the best for the top percentile of the population. The conservative way of thinking is initself strange, I know people who are my age who label themselves as 'conservatives' and are some of the most closeminded people in the world, they come off as inflexible and foolish. Their major flaw is the fact that they cannot put themselves in the shoes of the individual they're attacking and are therefore doomed to live with this way of thinking.



I'm conservative because I'm close-minded, opposed to (but not afraid of) change, I'm Christian and believe in Christian values, military might, nationalism, economic power, and respect internationally (either from the right or wrong reasons). In some way, you might even call me a racist (don't worry, I'm not white *sigh*).

Crimson-Model
04-13-2004, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Ruthless4Life
I'm conservative because I'm close-minded, opposed to (but not afraid of) change, I'm Christian and believe in Christian values, military might, nationalism, economic power, and respect internationally (either from the right or wrong reasons). In some way, you might even call me a racist (don't worry, I'm not white *sigh*).
Strange, I actually agree with most of your political choices in other threads. You have to remember that what I posted refers to guys like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

Canadian Nanook
04-13-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
Does Canada ban it or not? Cause the other Canucks say no?
No fox news is not banned up here

And in regards to another previous comment, we spend more of out GDP and more money all together on our military than Switzerland does but Switzerland has one of the strongest and best trained armies in the world. Military spending does not mean a stronger military. Not only that but Intimidation is not the only method that should be used to gain the respect of the world. Standing at a table screaming we are strong, we will crush you unless you bow to our needs does not gain respect. A well educated population, a health care system envied by the rest of the world, and an economy which thrives even in the worst of times gets you the respect of the world. I think Canada does have a lot of respect and rightly deserves it, and this is why we won't be attacked, they respect us and understand that we DON'T stand at the table demanding stuff. We simply want to help, and that gets Canada her respect

Ruthless4Life
04-13-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
Strange, I actually agree with most of your political choices in other threads. You have to remember that what I posted refers to guys like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

Perhaps I'm a conversative which values one's leadership capabilities more than theoretical viewpoints. I may have conservative values, but as a convervative person, I value leadership most, even if the leader isn't conservative. I see the government can either be a good or bad leader, not a conservative or liberal.

Preppy
04-14-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Kane Fan
fairly informed?
how is that exactly...
your government bans Fox News...
a government that tries to keep you ignorant dosn't qualify as well informed

We get Fox News here bro. But honestly, it is your worst news cast... I mean common Kanefan... John Bradshaw is a financial analysist???? lol

Seriously though, give me CBC Newsworld, BBC or hell, even CNBC, any day of the week over Fox!

Canadian Nanook
04-14-2004, 08:00 AM
Personally, I've noticed a large difference between Republicans and democrats in regards to foreign affairs. The Democrats have the power to use their military but they prefer to use a more political approach and talk things out first. The republicans seem a little trigger happy and would press the button to go as soon as they possibly could. I don't think all republicans are ignorant of foreign affairs but the leader is a dumbass. I saw talking to Americans awhile ago. It's with a Canadian Comic, Rick Mercer. He went down to the states and asked all sorts of americans different questions that were untrue about Canada, for example, he asked a woman if it would be alright for Canada to leave our ships in U.S. ports because we don't touch any large bodies of water. and she actually said it seems like a great idea, sure we have room in our ports and if you aren't touching the ocean then why not? He also told george bush, then candidate for president that prime minister jean Poutine would not endorse either candidate for president. And bush said well thank you Mr Prime Minister. It was one of the most hilarious shows I've seen in a long time. They even told people that 80 percent of Canadian children in grade 8 could not recognize their home state, and people were going nuts over this. "I can't believe it, you should be ashamed of your education system" and all sorts of other things. So in short, the republican leader is not too bright, but that doesn't mean all republicans

DB15
04-14-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
I dunno, from what I've noticed-- it seems as though the conservatives are most often the close-minded ones that are afraid of change and only want the best for the top percentile of the population. The conservative way of thinking is initself strange, I know people who are my age who label themselves as 'conservatives' and are some of the most closeminded people in the world, they come off as inflexible and foolish. Their major flaw is the fact that they cannot put themselves in the shoes of the individual they're attacking and are therefore doomed to live with this way of thinking.

I think that is why they are called conservaties becuase of there conserative nature.

15u
04-14-2004, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
he asked a woman if it would be alright for Canada to leave our ships in U.S. ports because we don't touch any large bodies of water. and she actually said it seems like a great idea, sure we have room in our ports and if you aren't touching the ocean then why not?

lol. i'm sure he had to interview alot of people to find the few that are actually that stupid. its not like every american is an idiot. after all, we are the best country in the world... :D

batfonso
04-14-2004, 01:30 PM
To me, I always though of Canada as the generic brand when people couldn't afford the real one, America.

15u
04-14-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
To me, I always though of Canada as the generic brand when people couldn't afford the real one, America.

lmao! :D

Ruthless4Life
04-14-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
To me, I always though of Canada as the generic brand when people couldn't afford the real one, America.

You're saying that beavers and mooses aren't original?

Canadian Nanook
04-14-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
To me, I always though of Canada as the generic brand when people couldn't afford the real one, America.
I just like the fact that recently, Americans who have been backpacking across Europe or wherever have been sewing Canadian Flags on their packs. On another forum someone was really pissed that Canadians were putting the flags on cause we don't want to be associated with the US. Well now Americans don't want to be associated with the US. The irony is delicious

DB15
04-14-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
To me, I always though of Canada as the generic brand when people couldn't afford the real one, America.

Clearly you dont know what you are talking about.

Canadian Nanook
04-14-2004, 06:21 PM
Makes you kinda wanna smack him doesn't it?

Starsky
04-14-2004, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
I just like the fact that recently, Americans who have been backpacking across Europe or wherever have been sewing Canadian Flags on their packs. On another forum someone was really pissed that Canadians were putting the flags on cause we don't want to be associated with the US. Well now Americans don't want to be associated with the US. The irony is delicious


Don't get ahead of yourself. Those cowards backpacking across Europe with Canadian flags on, ashamed of America do not represent this country. They represent leftist losers.

Canadian Nanook
04-14-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
Don't get ahead of yourself. Those cowards backpacking across Europe with Canadian flags on, ashamed of America do not represent this country. They represent leftist losers.
Or they just don't like getting beaten up outside their own country

zeratulz
04-14-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Ruthless4Life
In some way, you might even call me a racist (don't worry, I'm not white *sigh*).

lol wait a minute did u just say u cant be racist since ur not white?

M_D
04-14-2004, 08:21 PM
Canada is still a relatively young country, we're still trying to find out what makes us Canadian.

From what I've gathered the CSIS organization isn't much. They don't have any arresting powers, no one can carry a firearm, I don't think they do very much clandestine activities either. They also release a lot of information to the public unlike the FBI and CIA.

TranceNRG
04-14-2004, 08:28 PM
One thing I love about canadians (specially on this forum) is how they're so calm. (most of the timeS)

eventhough everyone tries to bash them, they jus' laugh about it and KNOW that their country is a great country no matter how much people bash it.

we value our igloos, mooses, beavers, hockey, beers and no matter how hard we're being fun of, we don't care


:D

O Canada......

batfonso
04-14-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
One thing I love about canadians (specially on this forum) is how they're so calm. (most of the timeS)

eventhough everyone tries to bash them, they jus' laugh about it and KNOW that their country is a great country no matter how much people bash it.


If you read the forums the truth is that that statement is not true. Canadians are some of the most insecure people of any country I have ever seen.

M_D
04-14-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
If you read the forums the truth is that that statement is not true. Canadians are some of the most insecure people of any country I have ever seen.

insecure based on what? You're personal experience with a handful of Canadians? If that is the case, you don't want to know what you Americans are like.

batfonso
04-14-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by M_D
insecure based on what? You're personal experience with a handful of Canadians? If that is the case, you don't want to know what you Americans are like.

There's insecure people from every country on this earth. It's just a personal observation that Canadians seem to be some of the most insecure.

Ruthless4Life
04-14-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by zeratulz
lol wait a minute did u just say u cant be racist since ur not white?

Actually, the opposite. I'm saying that it's okay for me to be racist since I'm not white. Atleast that's what my politically correct society is saying. :D

Whingman
04-15-2004, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
No fox news is not banned up here

And in regards to another previous comment, we spend more of out GDP and more money all together on our military than Switzerland does but Switzerland has one of the strongest and best trained armies in the world. Military spending does not mean a stronger military. Not only that but Intimidation is not the only method that should be used to gain the respect of the world. Standing at a table screaming we are strong, we will crush you unless you bow to our needs does not gain respect. A well educated population, a health care system envied by the rest of the world, and an economy which thrives even in the worst of times gets you the respect of the world. I think Canada does have a lot of respect and rightly deserves it, and this is why we won't be attacked, they respect us and understand that we DON'T stand at the table demanding stuff. We simply want to help, and that gets Canada her respect

and these kind of posts make me wish CBC was banend in Canada.

I love Caanda jsut as much as any canadian however, i find it sad hwo canadians allow thsi country to go to the dogs due to our pride we cling to outdated or jsut plan false information to make us "better" then America. I don't want Canada to be better then America I want Caanda to be the best it can be and reach its potential. however the political bird needs both its left and right wings to fly, and we only have a left wing; I swear its coming tot he point where bieng conservative borders on criminal...as if we ahve no tolerence for alternate conservative options.

but lets address your what makes Canada better then America
reasons.

1. Economy
Every oen screams this out as a reaosnw hy we are better...but lets look at it, are economy has taken hits and so has America's...what are the results.....

a).PCI
Canada- $29,300
America- $36,300
Hmm....it isn't tough to find a winner here is it?

b) Inflation rates
Canada- 2.2%
America- 1.6%
uhhmm....yea lower is better

c) Unemployment
Canada- 7.6%
America- 5.8%
uhhmmm....hey this isn't what my friends told me at school eh?

I mean in all seriousness are superior economy is not as superior
as you are makign it out.

2.Helath care
evied by they rest of the world, whiel yes it soudns great we must distinguish between bias and fact.
Fact states that we have:
1.Public health care
2.Equal opurtunity health care
3.Good quality comapred to most countries
unfortuanantley it stops there, the fact is we have a shortage of beds a shortage of funds, but no shortage in people who need to use our health care. We ahve huge waiting lists that could be drastically reduced by dare I say it, private health care....think about it public health care shoudl be for the people who need it; look at ti this way we have millions of people who get medical coverage through work imagine if they stopped being a burden on the public health care system and went to a private system, we have plenty of rich people who can afford ther eown health care imagien if they went to private health care systems. This would allow every one to get health care faster and that shodulb e the point...we shoudls top saying the poor get ther ehip replaced in 2 years the rich get their hip replaced in two years, and start sayign the rich get their hip replaced in 6 months the poor get there hip replaced in 12 months because whiel yes the rich get the health care sooner then the poor every oen is getitng health care faster and isn't that the point to get people the care they deserve as soon as possible? Lets stop standing at thsi ridge becuase we got a mountain to climb and we have been standing here lookign over the scenery for to long, and this is killing Canadian health care...is it really better if it is not it's best?
and if it isn't at its best, and we could be improving it and we aren't isn't that a crime? the libs. ahve cut are health care fundign from 50% to 16% or summat like that, who cares hwo good it is whats sad is we gloat about hwo good it is but despite obvious problems we take no real action as of yet, who cares what it sbetter then it shoudl be si it better then it was.

3.Education
Well this is kinda subjective ain't it? I mean what makes one country better educated then the other? so i did a search on soem search engines and about every 5 searches told me a new country was the best educated, Japan, germany, South korea, America, Mauritius, wales, Scotland, Italy, Cuba, Russia, Then i found it Canda was the best educated country in the world.
What does thsi mean? your right Canada is well educated, but shouldn;t that be expected? shoudln;t that be a given i mean unles you were implying we were number 1 in education or were implyign wea re better then someone in education whcih is also hard to measure.


However the quesiton we were asked was:

We Canada as a whole are simply put underachieving. This country has so much to offer and so much to gain, so why are we still considered a little brother of North America and not the big hitter that we should be. Is this what we as Canadians want or should we expect more from our government and our resources.


why our we under achieving?
1. A political bird cannot fly with out its left and right wings, the media needs to stop persecuting the right wing.
2. We do need to lookinto partial privatization to helath care, to get the rich out of the poor peoples way, and make ehalth care better for EVERYONE
3. Kinda long but,
scrap welfare, we shoudl work on building houses for the poor and providing them with food, after thsi is done give them the other benifiets of welfare but not the money allowignt hem to get the upside of welfare maintian a basic job, but not have to worry about housing payments or buying food...thsi woudl give the peopel expirence int eh work force and perhaps a better steping stool to a new job; as the old saying goes you give a man a fish and he ahs food for a day, you teach a man to fish and he has food for the rest of his life, lets teach not give.
4. Improve psot secondary educaiton; stop subsidising peopels tuition and start subsidising the buildign of campuses, allows for more peopel to attend college, save colleges money from having to build campuses, and creates more space allowing for more money to be brought in and should at the very least keep tuition from rocketing out of control
5. the millitary; hell even i can't come up with an idea here...any oen knwo of a way to make the millitary self sufficient? like maybe they can loot countries they are stationed in?
6. Trade, Oil - production: 2.738 million bbl/day
Oil - consumption: 1.703 million bbl/day
Oil - exports: 2.008 million bbl/day
Oil - imports: 1.145 million bbl/day

this is something that is seen through out our trade....now I am not proclaiming protecitonism, but i do belive we need a balance in our trade, perhaps oil aint the best example but we do not always need redundancies. yes we do have a trade surplus in moeny but it could perhaps be better.
7. I like Tony clements idea ona tax reform where from $0-$250,000 of total incoem earned you do not pay any taxes, thsi woudl benifiet the poor massivley, it woudl benifiet students in a big way, and apparently it is sustanible...it woudl give people a jump start on life.
8.Try to give power to the provinces, listen people from quebec do not know what I wan't likewise I do not know what people from quebec want. Answer I decide what I want, give mroe power tot he provinces and les resposibility tot he federal governemnt, not only does it allow peopel more say over there own affairs but it should definentley damper sepratism sentaiments soemwhat.

oh well just soem thoguths

Crimson-Model
04-15-2004, 12:56 PM
Work on your ****in spelling, that was difficult to read!

Fleshwound
04-15-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
Or they just don't like getting beaten up outside their own country

I don't really see people getting beaten up because of their nationality, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.. there are a lot of ignorant people in the world. :(

Fleshwound
04-15-2004, 04:01 PM
As for Canada, I've never been there.. I only know what I've read about it therefore I can't say any generalizations about it.

Sadly, that happens a lot around the world. Too many people say too many things about other countries they've never been to but only read about in the unbiased media.

All I know is, I love hockey. :D
(And everyone HATES it here)

DB15
04-15-2004, 05:24 PM
What was said about our unemplyoemtn compared ot the U.S is by far our worst statistic

We as a country have so muhc to offer with so many incomming jobs and reources our unemployment shoul dbe under 5% no excuses

NOTE: SINCE I STARTED THIS THREAD I WOIKE TO TELL EVERYONE TO RELAX WE ARE HERE TO DEBATE NOT TO ARGUE

Also my spelling is terrible as well please do not comment I already know

Canadian Nanook
04-15-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Whingman
and these kind of posts make me wish CBC was banend in Canada.

I love Caanda jsut as much as any canadian however, i find it sad hwo canadians allow thsi country to go to the dogs due to our pride we cling to outdated or jsut plan false information to make us "better" then America. I don't want Canada to be better then America I want Caanda to be the best it can be and reach its potential. however the political bird needs both its left and right wings to fly, and we only have a left wing; I swear its coming tot he point where bieng conservative borders on criminal...as if we ahve no tolerence for alternate conservative options.

but lets address your what makes Canada better then America
reasons.

1. Economy
Every oen screams this out as a reaosnw hy we are better...but lets look at it, are economy has taken hits and so has America's...what are the results.....

a).PCI
Canada- $29,300
America- $36,300
Hmm....it isn't tough to find a winner here is it?

b) Inflation rates
Canada- 2.2%
America- 1.6%
uhhmm....yea lower is better

c) Unemployment
Canada- 7.6%
America- 5.8%
uhhmmm....hey this isn't what my friends told me at school eh?

I mean in all seriousness are superior economy is not as superior
as you are makign it out.

2.Helath care
evied by they rest of the world, whiel yes it soudns great we must distinguish between bias and fact.
Fact states that we have:
1.Public health care
2.Equal opurtunity health care
3.Good quality comapred to most countries
unfortuanantley it stops there, the fact is we have a shortage of beds a shortage of funds, but no shortage in people who need to use our health care. We ahve huge waiting lists that could be drastically reduced by dare I say it, private health care....think about it public health care shoudl be for the people who need it; look at ti this way we have millions of people who get medical coverage through work imagine if they stopped being a burden on the public health care system and went to a private system, we have plenty of rich people who can afford ther eown health care imagien if they went to private health care systems. This would allow every one to get health care faster and that shodulb e the point...we shoudls top saying the poor get ther ehip replaced in 2 years the rich get their hip replaced in two years, and start sayign the rich get their hip replaced in 6 months the poor get there hip replaced in 12 months because whiel yes the rich get the health care sooner then the poor every oen is getitng health care faster and isn't that the point to get people the care they deserve as soon as possible? Lets stop standing at thsi ridge becuase we got a mountain to climb and we have been standing here lookign over the scenery for to long, and this is killing Canadian health care...is it really better if it is not it's best?
and if it isn't at its best, and we could be improving it and we aren't isn't that a crime? the libs. ahve cut are health care fundign from 50% to 16% or summat like that, who cares hwo good it is whats sad is we gloat about hwo good it is but despite obvious problems we take no real action as of yet, who cares what it sbetter then it shoudl be si it better then it was.

3.Education
Well this is kinda subjective ain't it? I mean what makes one country better educated then the other? so i did a search on soem search engines and about every 5 searches told me a new country was the best educated, Japan, germany, South korea, America, Mauritius, wales, Scotland, Italy, Cuba, Russia, Then i found it Canda was the best educated country in the world.
What does thsi mean? your right Canada is well educated, but shouldn;t that be expected? shoudln;t that be a given i mean unles you were implying we were number 1 in education or were implyign wea re better then someone in education whcih is also hard to measure.


However the quesiton we were asked was:

We Canada as a whole are simply put underachieving. This country has so much to offer and so much to gain, so why are we still considered a little brother of North America and not the big hitter that we should be. Is this what we as Canadians want or should we expect more from our government and our resources.


why our we under achieving?
1. A political bird cannot fly with out its left and right wings, the media needs to stop persecuting the right wing.
2. We do need to lookinto partial privatization to helath care, to get the rich out of the poor peoples way, and make ehalth care better for EVERYONE
3. Kinda long but,
scrap welfare, we shoudl work on building houses for the poor and providing them with food, after thsi is done give them the other benifiets of welfare but not the money allowignt hem to get the upside of welfare maintian a basic job, but not have to worry about housing payments or buying food...thsi woudl give the peopel expirence int eh work force and perhaps a better steping stool to a new job; as the old saying goes you give a man a fish and he ahs food for a day, you teach a man to fish and he has food for the rest of his life, lets teach not give.
4. Improve psot secondary educaiton; stop subsidising peopels tuition and start subsidising the buildign of campuses, allows for more peopel to attend college, save colleges money from having to build campuses, and creates more space allowing for more money to be brought in and should at the very least keep tuition from rocketing out of control
5. the millitary; hell even i can't come up with an idea here...any oen knwo of a way to make the millitary self sufficient? like maybe they can loot countries they are stationed in?
6. Trade, Oil - production: 2.738 million bbl/day
Oil - consumption: 1.703 million bbl/day
Oil - exports: 2.008 million bbl/day
Oil - imports: 1.145 million bbl/day

this is something that is seen through out our trade....now I am not proclaiming protecitonism, but i do belive we need a balance in our trade, perhaps oil aint the best example but we do not always need redundancies. yes we do have a trade surplus in moeny but it could perhaps be better.
7. I like Tony clements idea ona tax reform where from $0-$250,000 of total incoem earned you do not pay any taxes, thsi woudl benifiet the poor massivley, it woudl benifiet students in a big way, and apparently it is sustanible...it woudl give people a jump start on life.
8.Try to give power to the provinces, listen people from quebec do not know what I wan't likewise I do not know what people from quebec want. Answer I decide what I want, give mroe power tot he provinces and les resposibility tot he federal governemnt, not only does it allow peopel more say over there own affairs but it should definentley damper sepratism sentaiments soemwhat.

oh well just soem thoguths

In regards to the first comment, Canada is very diverse on the political spectrum. For example, I am one of four students in my grade who is actually a liberal and am further to the left then most of them. the rest of my grade is right wing to extreme right wing. I think that Canada has representatives from all forms of political ideologies. In relation to the US, yes Canada is further to the left, but in a general political spectrum, the US is to the right of centre, Canada sits pretty much smack damn in the middle.
For the comment on economy, I never said that the Canadian Economy was better than the US. I simply said that Canada has a strong economy which right now is thriving while the US economy and dollar is not doing as well. I never specified that the Canadian Economy is better than the US, they have more people and more workers and therefore are able to earn more and have a higher economy.
In regards to health care. Our health care system is envied by much of the world because other countries around the world are privatized while we keep our healthcare free for everyone. The privatization of the healthcare system and creating two tiered health care means that we are justifying the rich getting better and faster healthcare than everyone else. When you privatize, the doctors are no longer bound by the prices of Ohip or any health insurance policy and therefore can charge what they want. This means that better educated doctors will move into the private sector leaving fewer role models and highly qualified doctors in the public sector. This means that the Rich are getting better doctors and faster and better treatment simply because they can afford it. Why make them better than everyone else? Why should we allow them to take away the better doctors and leaving the poor to suffer?
As for education, we have beat the US on the most recent world tests for math and reading skills as well as we are able to afford sending our children to University because the government subsidizes while in the US one year of tuition can cost 60 000 dollars. We allow more people to go to University even if they are not rich to begin with. Canada is a great country that is envied by the world, I put in my two cents worth for the beginning question and IMO Canada is respected based on our quiet and peaceful demeanor. I get my opinions from the recent proposal by turks and Cacos and China and many other countries around the globe that want to expand trade and other things with Canada in the future.

The Rob
04-15-2004, 08:10 PM
Overall great arguments guys, keep up the intelligent conversation.



BTW the govt decided to spend 7 billion on the military.

DB15
04-16-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by The Rob
BTW the govt decided to spend 7 billion on the military.

Personally I feel as if the 7 bill could have be spent better off else where

Crimson-Model
04-16-2004, 12:21 PM
What Whingman forgot to mention was that the USA's is ranked pretty low in terms of income distribution, the highest and richest 20% of the population controls 50%+ of the countries wealth.


The exact quote is in my textbook but Canada comes in at a decent rate, the second best income distribution in the world, right behind Germany.

As for Tony Clements idea, it doubt it will ever happen because simply put, the goverment does not want to take the chance. Read up on Transfer Tax, it's a concept that's quite similar to Clements idea but it was rejected as well.

Younglifter14
04-16-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by TranceNRG
[B]We don't need the strongest military. [B]

there we go, i was waiting for that :)

Ruthless4Life
04-16-2004, 02:21 PM
We don't need the strongest military, but we do need a stronger military we have today. Our military is almost non-existant and currently stretched to the max due to all our UN and NATO peacekeeping commitments. Canadians blindly take pride of our peacekeeping commitments in the world, yet, we are do not have the ability to fulfill them.

enjoyincubus
04-16-2004, 02:43 PM
why is that canadians are so competitive? why do they want to be better than everyone else? what happened to the laid back, "tolerant" mindset that you canadians claim to have?

Ruthless4Life
04-16-2004, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by enjoyincubus
why is that canadians are so competitive? why do they want to be better than everyone else? what happened to the laid back, "tolerant" mindset that you canadians claim to have?

Society's changed. For example, in my province, BC, there are only three major reputable universities. For U of BC, due to a large number of applicants and low number of seats available, to get into first year science one needs to have atleast 88% average, which is highly competitive. Why is this happening? Political problems.

Whingman
04-16-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
What Whingman forgot to mention was that the USA's is ranked pretty low in terms of income distribution, the highest and richest 20% of the population controls 50%+ of the countries wealth.


The exact quote is in my textbook but Canada comes in at a decent rate, the second best income distribution in the world, right behind Germany.

As for Tony Clements idea, it doubt it will ever happen because simply put, the goverment does not want to take the chance. Read up on Transfer Tax, it's a concept that's quite similar to Clements idea but it was rejected as well.


yes they are ranke dlow...however Caanda is no longer that great eitehr i think the recent study put us at 8th worse...

this si exactly waht is wrogn with Caanda we will settle for being better then soemoen in some area...enver striving to be better then that...as long as we beet the U.S at soemthing it's all good.

batfonso
04-16-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by enjoyincubus
why is that canadians are so competitive? why do they want to be better than everyone else? what happened to the laid back, "tolerant" mindset that you canadians claim to have?

Insecurity.

Ruthless4Life
04-16-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by batfonso
Insecurity.

So, what about Americans? They're not competitive?

Canadian Nanook
04-16-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Ruthless4Life
Society's changed. For example, in my province, BC, there are only three major reputable universities. For U of BC, due to a large number of applicants and low number of seats available, to get into first year science one needs to have atleast 88% average, which is highly competitive. Why is this happening? Political problems.
I think it is also very much based on an uneven spread of everything. In Ontario, my province, we have something like 34 Universities and one new one was just created to deal with the double cohort. Competition drives capitalism. Canadians just have a sense of pride about their heritage and status as a peace keeper. The competitiveness comes from an influx of patriotism from the United States which forces us to combat with our own type. Canada wants to avoid a brain drain as much as possible, but that is very difficult without patriotism and competition

irpker
04-16-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Crimson-Model
What Whingman forgot to mention was that the USA's is ranked pretty low in terms of income distribution, the highest and richest 20% of the population controls 50%+ of the countries wealth.

The exact quote is in my textbook but Canada comes in at a decent rate, the second best income distribution in the world, right behind Germany.

Stating facts without a conclusions means nothing. So what if America ranks lowest in distribution of income while Canada remains high? Give us your analysis :)

Ruthless4Life
04-17-2004, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by irpker
Stating facts without a conclusions means nothing. So what if America ranks lowest in distribution of income while Canada remains high? Give us your analysis :)

I think what he means is that in Canada, everybody is equally poor, while in the US, there are both rich and poor. :)

Canadian Nanook
04-17-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by irpker
Stating facts without a conclusions means nothing. So what if America ranks lowest in distribution of income while Canada remains high? Give us your analysis :)
The conclusion here is that the wealth is more evenly spread amoung the population. Yes there are some people who are extremely wealthy and there are people who are extremely poor. But the majority of people in Canada are in the middle. WHereas in the states there is a much smaller middle class so therefore there are a more people on the extremely rich side but an unfathomable amount of people on the extremely poor side. The distribution of wealth in Canada is second in the world while in the United States, the distribution is terrible

Crimson-Model
04-17-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
The conclusion here is that the wealth is more evenly spread amoung the population. Yes there are some people who are extremely wealthy and there are people who are extremely poor. But the majority of people in Canada are in the middle. WHereas in the states there is a much smaller middle class so therefore there are a more people on the extremely rich side but an unfathomable amount of people on the extremely poor side. The distribution of wealth in Canada is second in the world while in the United States, the distribution is terrible
Exactly what I meant. :)

Crimson-Model
04-17-2004, 10:46 AM
Plato once said something alone the lines of In an ideal society, the income of the richest person would be no more than four times the income of the poorest person

I just looked at the textbook and the chart has this
Germany:
Bottom 5th: has 9% of population's income.
Top 5th: 37.1% of population's income.

About 4.1
You could say that Germany is the closest thing to Plato's theory.

Canada: Bottom 5th: 8.2% of population's income.
Top 5th: 39.3% of population's income.

Aboot 4.9. ;)

USA: Bottom 5th: 4.8% of population's income.
Top 5th: 45.2% of populations income.

About 9.4%


Brazil: Bottom 5th: 2.5% of populations income.
Top 5th: 64.2% of populations income

About 25.7%.

irpker
04-17-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
The conclusion here is that the wealth is more evenly spread amoung the population. Yes there are some people who are extremely wealthy and there are people who are extremely poor. But the majority of people in Canada are in the middle. WHereas in the states there is a much smaller middle class so therefore there are a more people on the extremely rich side but an unfathomable amount of people on the extremely poor side. The distribution of wealth in Canada is second in the world while in the United States, the distribution is terrible

Did you ever think the overwhelming majority of wealthy people deserve to be wealthy while the overwhelming majority of the lower class deserve to be in the lower-class?

"Spreading the wealth" is just a euphemistic term for legalized theft.

I'll leave you with some Madison: "The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, the possession of different degrees and kinds of property immediately results; and from the influence of these on the sentiments and views of the respective proprietors, ensues a division of the society into different interests and parties."

JigaroKagan
04-17-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by irpker

I'll leave you with some Madison:

That pompous bastard could have summed that up in a sentence, but rather, the flowery **** had to inundate people with rhetoric.

Canadian Nanook
04-17-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by irpker
Did you ever think the overwhelming majority of wealthy people deserve to be wealthy while the overwhelming majority of the lower class deserve to be in the lower-class?

"Spreading the wealth" is just a euphemistic term for legalized theft.

I'll leave you with some Madison: "The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government."

So you honestly believe that people deserve to be dirt poor, they deserve to live on the streets. So according to Madison it is the Governments responsibility to keep people poor and living on the street as well as keeping the rich rich and leaving them in their cushy lifestyle. Just because someone said something, it doesn't mean that they are right. To leave someone to remain poor does not make any sense. Why is it that Germany strives to keep their people from being poor and tries to disperse the wealth equally. Not to make it fair for everyone, but to prevent the dirt poor from dying and to prevent the extravagently rich from controlling the world.

irpker
04-17-2004, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Canadian Nanook
So you honestly believe that people deserve to be dirt poor, they deserve to live on the streets. So according to Madison it is the Governments responsibility to keep people poor and living on the street as well as keeping the rich rich and leaving them in their cushy lifestyle. Just because someone said something, it doesn't mean that they are right. To leave someone to remain poor does not make any sense. Why is it that Germany strives to keep their people from being poor and tries to disperse the wealth equally. Not to make it fair for everyone, but to prevent the dirt poor from dying and to prevent the extravagently rich from controlling the world.

I believe that people who are lazy, refuse to work, and expect to live off the benevolence of their fellow man, deserve to live on the street with the rest of the hobo's. You're a person who believes that people are not responsible for their actions which led them to their current situation, and that society caused these situations for them. I do not believe that, especially for those who live in Canada and the United States, where upward mobility is possible.

If you actually read the whole paragraph, the diverse faculties ( go to dictionary.com to see what it means) of men is what creates uneven and unequal distributions of wealth because the faculties of men are distributed unequally and unevenly. It is not the role of government to punish the Intelligent, productive entrepreneur of society by transfering their wealth to the unmotivated, lazy, fatbodies of society.

I don't know nor do not care what Germany does. They can have their permanent underclass and double digit unemployment which their economic and social policies create.

Canadian Nanook
04-20-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by irpker
I believe that people who are lazy, refuse to work, and expect to live off the benevolence of their fellow man, deserve to live on the street with the rest of the hobo's. You're a person who believes that people are not responsible for their actions which led them to their current situation, and that society caused these situations for them. I do not believe that, especially for those who live in Canada and the United States, where upward mobility is possible.

If you actually read the whole paragraph, the diverse faculties ( go to dictionary.com to see what it means) of men is what creates uneven and unequal distributions of wealth because the faculties of men are distributed unequally and unevenly. It is not the role of government to punish the Intelligent, productive entrepreneur of society by transfering their wealth to the unmotivated, lazy, fatbodies of society.

I don't know nor do not care what Germany does. They can have their permanent underclass and double digit unemployment which their economic and social policies create.
Yes, because all of the poor on the street are drunks and drug addicts. There are plenty of people who are just down on their luck and need help getting on to their feet. What about the businesses that go bankrupt twice, what the hell are these people supposed to do? Not only that but what about the people who do work two jobs and they are barely keeping it together for their families. Sure, there are a lot of bright rich entrepeneurs that should not be punished and they aren't being. What I am saying is that there has to be a type of balance, a balance between the people living below the poverty line who are working two jobs to support their families, and the rich entrepeneurs who have millions of dollars and can affor paying an extra 500 bucks in taxes. 500 dollars is chump change to these guys and it only makes sense for them to pay a little bit more to help out these single mothers who are having a hard time getting by. Also, these intelligent people you speak of, where do you think their education came from, University, which is almost impossible for these low income families to afford. Balance your morals before you decide to tell me that these single parent families and these people who are down on their luck deserve to be poor

Mittens
05-12-2004, 06:31 PM
America is the greatest nation in the world. Canada will always be America Jr. because even though your a large country, I'd say what, 20% of it is actually inhabitable? Doesn't count. America has the land size (where humans can actually live, largest country in the world where people can live almost anywhere within it) to support it's large population, is high in natural resources, and leads the world in services. Our corporations run the world. The amount of money in America is insane. This all contributes to our power and influence and why Canada will always play second fiddle. Ya'll live on our border (90% of the Canadian population) just wishing we'd annex you and add (what is it?) 4 or 5 more states to America.

FiveOneNine
05-12-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Mittens
America is the greatest nation in the world. Canada will always be America Jr. because even though your a large country, I'd say what, 20% of it is actually inhabitable? Doesn't count. America has the land size (where humans can actually live, largest country in the world where people can live almost anywhere within it) to support it's large population, is high in natural resources, and leads the world in services. Our corporations run the world. The amount of money in America is insane. This all contributes to our power and influence and why Canada will always play second fiddle. Ya'll live on our border (90% of the Canadian population) just wishing we'd annex you and add (what is it?) 4 or 5 more states to America.

I think that you may find that Canada may become very strong in a short period of time. Why? Canada has the greatest amount of fresh water in the world. The demand for fresh water steadily increases as we continue to populate and pollute. Eventually, I think that water will replace oil as the top commodity. This would then put Canada at the top of the economic standings. Lumber will also play a role in establishing Canada's economy.

dixon
05-12-2004, 09:13 PM
I hate my communist, welfare state, authoritarian government. There's nobody for me to vote for either, even the conservative party supports things like economic protectionism and universal healthcare.

Ruthless4Life
05-12-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by dixon
I hate my communist, welfare state, authoritarian government. There's nobody for me to vote for either, even the conservative party supports things like economic protectionism and universal healthcare.

I'm voting for Stephen Harper.