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View Full Version : Where does the French - US feud come from?



Norman
03-12-2004, 04:09 AM
A bit surprising for me, since France and the US fought so many times together , the Independence War, WW I and II, Operation Desert Storm and now in Haiti.
Unlinke most nations they never fought against each other and both nations have a long democratical history.

So its a bit surprising that there so much ill feelings for each other, can anyone explain to me where this does come from?

RICH8472
03-12-2004, 04:21 AM
Ever met the French?

Norman
03-12-2004, 04:40 AM
They are just around the corner, geographically speaking.
There are many foreign students from France here, i never had any problems with them.

shy_sean
03-12-2004, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by RICH8472
Ever met the French? Hahahaha. That was great.

Spoken like a true Brit.

It reminds me of John Cleese in the Holy Grail playing the French Knight in the castle.

"I fart in your general direction..."
"I wave my private parts at you..."
"I burst my pimples at you..."
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of Elderberries..."
"Now go away you silly English types or I shall taunt you a second time!" ;)

JoeJoeJoe
03-12-2004, 05:14 AM
I've never had any problems with the French.

It seems to me that Americans really started to hate the French when they didn't want to go to war with Iraq. Who cares, that doesn't make them cowards.

wscranston
03-12-2004, 05:31 AM
It goes back much futher than Iraq.

Originally it goes back to 1966 with de Gaulle's criticism of US involvement in Vietnam and his pulling a "I'm taking my marbles and going home" act when he couldn't get his way in NATO. And his consistent view that basically everything that happened in Europe was a US Trojan Horse.

And then there was France's refusal to allow flyovers during the US strike against Libya in 1986.

And others, too numerous to mention. Read any good post-war European history.

Willie_Bosket
03-12-2004, 06:32 AM
The French eat frog's leg's and snail's, their is nothing to like about them :D

Tim
03-12-2004, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by wscranston
It goes back much futher than Iraq.

Originally it goes back to 1966 with de Gaulle's criticism of US involvement in Vietnam and his pulling a "I'm taking my marbles and going home" act when he couldn't get his way in NATO. And his consistent view that basically everything that happened in Europe was a US Trojan Horse.

And then there was France's refusal to allow flyovers during the US strike against Libya in 1986.

And others, too numerous to mention. Read any good post-war European history. I dunno. I first really noticed anti-French sentiment here in America when France opposed the US invasion of Iraq. Regardless, the anti-French sentiment in America is most definitely due to France opposing America's foreign policy.

porkpie
03-12-2004, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Willie_Bosket
The French eat frog's leg's and snail's, their is nothing to like about them :D

Sounds like a good source of protein to me!

Norman
03-12-2004, 06:52 AM
Do US citizens have a problem with the French government making their own foreign policy?

lionheart21
03-12-2004, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Norman
A bit surprising for me, since France and the US fought so many times together , the Independence War, WW I and II, Operation Desert Storm and now in Haiti.
Unlinke most nations they never fought against each other and both nations have a long democratical history.

So it´s a bit surprising that there so much ill feelings for each other, can anyone explain to me where this does come from?

I've been wondering the same thing for a while. They're helping us in Haiti, yet they still get bashed.

I was mad when they didn't help us in Iraq, but thats still no reason to hate someone who's been there for us so many times in the past.

MetaforeX
03-12-2004, 06:55 AM
Because France is full of ungrateful nancyboys who'd be eating sauerkraut if it weren't for the US.

Tim
03-12-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Norman
Do US citizens have a problem with the French government making their own foreign policy? I really don't think so. France is not really powerful enough to do the kinds of things the US does that other coutrys don't approve of, such as invading another country when much of the world disapproves of it.

aserecuba
03-12-2004, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by vegetafan17
I've been wondering the same thing for a while. They're helping us in Haiti, yet they still get bashed.

I was mad when they didn't help us in Iraq, but thats still no reason to hate someone who's been there for us so many times in the past.

they been there for us? you mean WE"VE been there for THEM

Tim
03-12-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by aserecuba
they been there for us? you mean WE"VE been there for THEM That's true, especially in the two World Wars.

Tamacracker
03-12-2004, 07:12 AM
Have you ever been to Europe? I mean take a vacation and see the other side of the world? Well I went with my grandmother and we had a great experience! Now my grandmother is hispanic (Dominican) with light skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes, but she only speaks spanish and italian (grandfather was italian and taught her) Now we weren't suppose to go to France cuz we wanted to to only be in Europe for 3 weeks, but because my granny and I are adventurous (if that's the right word) we decided to take one more week to visit France. The French are nice until you speak english with your Americanised accent. The French mistreat you, they lie to you, they take advantage of your money. We went to a hotel, and they tried to charge my granny $200 a night in American currency!!!! This is my opinion... F U C K the greedy hatin French! and I hope the U.S. Government has learned their lesson and never help France in any situation unless they pay us for our service. Then again I dont think U.S. should help anyone cept the allies, I'm glad for now we have cut France off our service for now. Europeans in general are wonderful warm hearted people, but not in France... Very cocky race of humans... This is my opinion from first hand experience with "real" Frenchmen in their land.

Tamacracker
03-12-2004, 07:14 AM
BTW, The French are PUSSIES!!! We dont need your help!

BuckWyld
03-12-2004, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Norman
Do US citizens have a problem with the French government making their own foreign policy?

only the stupid ones

aserecuba
03-12-2004, 07:30 AM
yea europeans are fvlkin cokcy as hell my calculus proffessor in college was french and he was one cocky mofo thinking he was the shy* with his stupid accent and face. he thinks he knows math if he goes to cuba or china or germany he'll get eaten alive.

placebo
03-12-2004, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by Norman
A bit surprising for me, since France and the US fought so many times together , the Independence War, WW I and II, Operation Desert Storm and now in Haiti.
Unlinke most nations they never fought against each other and both nations have a long democratical history.

So it?s a bit surprising that there so much ill feelings for each other, can anyone explain to me where this does come from?

Because Jacques Chirac refused to be Bush's bitch like Blair did when they invaded Iraq.

aserecuba
03-12-2004, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by placebo
Because refused to be Bush's bitch like Blair did when they invaded Iraq.

or maybe because Jacques Chirac had a hidden agenda in iraq, being saddam's byatch. look even their names rhyme. chirac - byatch. what kind of name is that.

Tamacracker
03-12-2004, 07:42 AM
No... the French should be our enemies... only bitches die, now they're suck in up to us by helpin a pathetic country like Haiti... Please tell your superior of your country to leave it up to us, we dont need two face back stabbin bitches to help us!

Batz w/ Napalm
03-12-2004, 07:49 AM
The feud between the France and America goes way back. Before WW1 and everything. What we have today is a culmination of many decades and many things. The United States (no matter how diverse it is) is the decendent of England. England has had a long running and long standing feud with France (making the cold war look like a joke). It is only natural for us to continue that feud.

France help (out of there own need) America in the revolution. Without their support we would have never won our freedom. But shortly afterward (a few years later) we sided with England on issues that opposed France. Even thou we fought England we still were tied with them and we shared out same view of France. France back then always looked down upon us. They thought we were barbarians and indians. Thomas Jefferson, when he was a diplomat to the French in the late 1700's, would dress up as an indian at their parties to amuse them. He was the hit of the high society with his custome and peace pipe.

We came to the defense of France in WW1. Even our own general that landed on France in WW1 said he was doing this do (i think it was degal [sp?]) for the French general that organized the american troops in the American Revolution. After the was was won, France didn't listen to what the USA had to say. They went on their own way in punishing germany which gave way to the second world war.


Also it has to be pointed out. Americans and French have to be the most patriotic, stubborn, and hot headed group of people around. Its only natural we will rub against each other.

But in the end of the day that doesn't mean American wont come to the defense of France or France wont come to the defense of American. We've backed each other up so many times its only natural to always support each other when the time gets tough.

Tamacracker
03-12-2004, 08:06 AM
oooh.. but then when terrorist from other countries arise, it's just like ah **** the Americans and the other countries gettin bombed on. Yes I thank the dead "soldiers" of France for helpin us achieve our freedom, but it's present time 300 years later... and the French calls us ignorant... we're the ones with the huge diversity, and the ones that do hate on a race they keep it to their selves (excludin stupid KKK and Neo Nazi f a g g o t s). The French in other hand treat us like dirt when we're in their territoy. And I dont disagree with their way of life, but for Christ sake open your mind and take the hate out of 'Americans" generally. It doesn't matter if you're, black, white, hispanic, indian... but if you have an "Americanised" accent it's like we're aliens from another planet.

Norman
03-12-2004, 08:11 AM
Tamacracker,
France was among the first of the countries to provide help in Afghanistan after 9/11


BTW. I´m not French.

Tamacracker
03-12-2004, 08:29 AM
Yeah cept this time they should spend all the money on helpin them rebuild and not us... we already have economy problems to begin with.

Snoopis
03-12-2004, 09:58 AM
Does anyone (outside of the middle east) like France?

BuckWyld
03-12-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Snoopis
Does anyone (outside of the middle east) like France?

I have no problem with france, I have never been there, but my mom and my uncle both lived there for a while and my folks have traveled there many times.

bollocks
03-12-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Norman

Nobody hates the French like the English.

shinysound
03-12-2004, 10:22 AM
bonjoooour ya cheese eatin' surrender monkeys (with a scottish accent)
-willie from the simpsons tryin to teach french to the second graders

LT1
03-12-2004, 10:42 AM
I am not certain about this but didnt France have some form of financial contracts with Saddam?

LordNeon
03-12-2004, 10:56 AM
I think France and the US, in some sense, were made for each other. Two nations more arrogant and full of themselves have seldom been seen on this planet.

(No, I do NOT hate America in the least, it's my home and it's overall a great place, so don't even bother with that $hit, please.)

aserecuba
03-12-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by LT1
I am not certain about this but didnt France have some form of financial contracts with Saddam?

yes chirac was saddam's byatch. but anyway when it all comes down to it it's all Canada's fault. blame teh canadians.

15u
03-12-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by aserecuba
yes chirac was saddam's byatch. but anyway when it all comes down to it it's all Canada's fault. blame teh canadians.

lol :D

Jimineye
03-12-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Norman
Do US citizens have a problem with the French government making their own foreign policy? \

Well the French shouldn't have a problem with ours.

shy_sean
03-12-2004, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Norman
A bit surprising for me, since France and the US fought so many times together , the Independence War, WW I and II, Operation Desert Storm and now in Haiti.
Unlinke most nations they never fought against each other and both nations have a long democratical history.

So its a bit surprising that there so much ill feelings for each other, can anyone explain to me where this does come from? Norman, I think Colin Powell put it well when he said the US and France have had a "dysfunctional marriage" for 200 years or words to that effect. I think it is also explained by the fact that these are two proud and arrogant countries who will, from time to time, have fights in their pride and arrogance. LordNeon is his usual perceptive self.

I agree that a main bone of contention was Iraq. Unfortunately, the Bush Administration did play hardball about it and tried to strong arm them into playing ball. The French have made it clear they do have an agenda to create a "counter-sphere" of influence in Europe that is pointedly anti-American both from an economic and political standpoint and this is divisive.

Sounds dysfunctional to me. ;)

GoB
03-12-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Batz w/ Napalm
Also it has to be pointed out. Americans and French have to be the most patriotic, stubborn, and hot headed group of people around. Its only natural we will rub against each other.

Yeah I beleive that's true. The two countries have different ideologies. I beleive Chirac is the equivalent of bush. Bush and Chirac are both stubborn as hell and arrogant(Chirac has recently passed a law to ban religious items from schools which has made controversy among the arab community). Bush's way of thinking is action first talk later and Chirac is the opposite. France problem with USA is capitalism, the french are close to socialism and hate evrything that has to do with materialism. On the other hand the US is lead by money (examples are the situation with Israel being controlled because of high "class" jews in the senate and the elections are paid by like 70% by compagnie "donations")

But a funny thing the other day happened, I was watching a french tv channel and there was a show where the host, politicians and authors were talking about capitalism and how wrong it is, and at the end they played a game(?). The game was to name the songs and they were all AMERICAN songs. Just goes to show how fuked up the situation in France is.

P.S. Don't take offense at how I am generalising and exagerating. I have nothing wrong with americans, capitalism, France, socialism, jews, whatever... I would have put it in politically correct but I am tired tonight.

Jimineye
03-12-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by GoB
I would have put it in politically correct but I am tired tonight.

Nobody cares about being PC. Infact it's a pet peeve of mine when people are. :D

GoB
03-12-2004, 05:40 PM
And about the French agenda in Iraq, of course they have an agenda. Everyone has agendas. Don't you think the US wound't mind having some cheap petrol from Iraq, which will probably happen if the US is *nice* to the iraqi people for 10-15 years or so. Why would the french be different about it?

Ruthless4Life
03-12-2004, 06:59 PM
Politics aside, French people are actually really nice.

Booker H
03-12-2004, 07:18 PM
a great line from dumb and dumber

"i dunno lloyd the french are asreholes".

that sums everything up

end of debate.

Jimineye
03-12-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Ruthless4Life
Politics aside, French people are actually really nice.

They are nice if you aren't American. I've actually met only once nice French person.

I've had relatives and friends that have been to France, and like Tamaracker said they were treated like **** because they were American.

Ruthless4Life
03-12-2004, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Jimineye
They are nice if you aren't American. I've actually met only once nice French person.

I've had relatives and friends that have been to France, and like Tamaracker said they were treated like **** because they were American.

Okay, they're nice to everybody in the world except for Americans. :)

drewbie 51
03-12-2004, 09:53 PM
in a poll I saw(I know its a ****ing poll), france had the lowest view of americans in europe, 33% had an unfavorable view of americans. This still means that two thirds of all french have a favorable view of americans, so its pretty stupid to generalize by saying that the french hate americans. And as far as being at odds a lot of it goes back to ww2 and the arguments that de gaulle and rosevelt had. In fact during the 60's de gaulle was president and told the us to get their troops out of france, the only reason our troops were in france was because they aske us to stay when germany was being rearmed to protect against soviet invasion.

Norman
03-12-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by drewbie 51
in a poll I saw(I know its a ****ing poll), france had the lowest view of americans in europe, 33% had an unfavorable view of americans. This still means that two thirds of all french have a favorable view of americans

A lot of French people propably have a neutral view of the USA, i don´t think that everybody in France that does not have a negative view of the USA automatically has a positive view.

NotRippedYet
03-13-2004, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by shy_sean
I agree that a main bone of contention was Iraq.

It's really a matter of perspective, Iraq was just the most recent, and thus fresh memory. For me, it's the fact that the French lost their country in just over a month (most of that time was due to the fact that it was poor weather and the tanks were slowed by rain), we had to save their asses, and they showed us absolutely no respect for it.

E-Sizzle
03-13-2004, 10:30 AM
In one of my small classes, there is a dude who came from France (but speaks English well). This jackass slants America at every opportunity. One day I was really pissed because a project I was working on wasn't turning out well and the idiot begins to make fun of the US again (I think it was over Bush, his usual MO) so I yelled at him to keep his f**king mouth shut. The whole class became silent but he shuts up now about the US. America isn't perfect but neither is France so this holier-than-thou **** needs to stop on their side.

nateakabear
03-13-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by shy_sean
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of Elderberries..."
Lol, that is probably one of my favorite Holy Grail quotes that or the knights of ni.

Starsky
03-13-2004, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by GoB
But a funny thing the other day happened, I was watching a french tv channel and there was a show where the host, politicians and authors were talking about capitalism and how wrong it is, and at the end they played a game(?). The game was to name the songs and they were all AMERICAN songs. Just goes to show how fuked up the situation in France is.


What a bunch of jackasses. Capitalism allows them to have clothes, earn money, drive to work, do whatever and they spend their time bashing it like ungrateful kids. You ever wonder why European economies have typically 1/3 to 1/4th the growth of Americas? Well #1 because they suck, and number #2 is that they try to implement wannabe socialism so they can call themselves that.

Ak47
03-13-2004, 12:00 PM
yea when i was in france it seemed like they were all *******s at first, cause lots of them were. but once i got deeper into paris people were really nice. we had a cab driver who was pointing stuff out and giving us a little history behind some of the more famous land marks as he drove us to our hotel. I think that france probably has the same opinion of america that america has of france, nobody really HATES anyone, just kind of dislikes, and most of the time not even seriously. i dont really know anyone that has put down the french and been serious about it. the only time i can think of that some americans were blatantly against the french was when some senators or bush or someone made all of the resturants in washington call french fries "freedom fries" but that was stupid as hell anyway.

GoB
03-13-2004, 12:34 PM
I also think the french are pissed at american tourist the same reason american people are pissed at foreign tourists. You know the "You're in America, Speak ENGLISH", must be the same for french people "Tu es en France, parle le FRANCAIS"

PaulP
03-13-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by shinysound
bonjoooour ya cheese eatin' surrender monkeys (with a scottish accent)
-willie from the simpsons tryin to teach french to the second graders

LOL willie is the best :D

shy_sean
03-13-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
What a bunch of jackasses. Capitalism allows them to have clothes, earn money, drive to work, do whatever and they spend their time bashing it like ungrateful kids. You ever wonder why European economies have typically 1/3 to 1/4th the growth of Americas? Well #1 because they suck, and number #2 is that they try to implement wannabe socialism so they can call themselves that.
Starsky does make a good point here. This is one of the many trade disputes with France that really amounts to protectionism, under the guise of socialism if you ask me. Actually, it's more like extortion than anything else.
-------------------------------------------------------
From the AP:

A French association representing recorded music rights holders threatened Wednesday to take Apple Computer Inc. to court in a dispute over lost music royalties. The argument centers on a fee levied in France on sales of blank CDs, tapes, hard disks, and other hardware that can be used to copy music. The proceeds go to musicians and other rights holders who lose money to piracy.

The Society of Music Creators, Composers and Publishers, or Sacem, accuses Apple of consistently refusing to pay the levy on sales of its iPod music player, ;) which contains a hard disk drive.

In a statement, Sacem said that unless Apple settles its growing account, the agency that collects the payments "will have no other option than to go immediately to court to make sure that the rights of artists, composers and producers are respected." <Oh please!> :rolleyes:

Efforts to get comment from Apple's French subsidiary or its California headquarters were not immediately successful.

Apple's pocket-sized iPod player can download and store up to 10,000 music tracks from a home computer and play them back from its hard disk through headphones or an amplifier and speakers.

The French royalties levy came into force in July 2002 and taxes hard disks built into music players according to their size.

The levy on a top-of-the range iPod, which retails at 550 euros ($677) at French department store FNAC, would come to 20 euros ($24.63). Sacem estimates that Apple sold 20,000 iPods in France last year, with disk capacities ranging from 10 to 40 gigabytes.

In 2003, the society collected some 150 million euros ($185 million) in levies on hard disks and blank media sales on behalf of artists and other rights holders.
-------------------------------------------------------
Can you believe these *******s? How is Apple, or a hard drive manufacturer or a CD maker responsible for piracy? Apple is trying to introduce a paid download service, iTunes, that makes money for the musicians but the licensing there is so convoluted it takes many months to do it. Also, a French company would be contracted to handle the bandwidth for the downloads that would assuredly increase because the music store drives additional iPod sales. These morons are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

They apparently don't want foreign goods selling all that much in France. Can you believe the mark up on that hi end iPod? It's USD$177 plus that extortionate fee for a bunch of lowlife lazy musicians! :D The import tariff has got to be around 25%. If that isn't a trade war, I don't know what is.

I do know this. Apple ain't quivering in fear from the threatened lawsuit and Steve Jobs doesn't appear to be rushing to sign any checks for the scummy little parasites, does he? It seems that Apple is the only company that has the balls to tell them to get stuffed. What about all the computers sold that have hard drives that are used to copy music?

And they wonder why their economy is stuck? Who wants to pay an extra 40%? Apparently only 20,000 French people vs. 2 million and growing Americans.

Ah well, screw them. It's selling like hotcakes in Japan which is the kind of commerce needed for a decent balance of trade. I'm sure those aren't the only products that have such ridiculous tariffs and socialistic "add-ons". :)

Thudd
08-18-2004, 06:34 PM
This post will be full of generalisations, so bear that in mind. There are always exceptions.

The French are a very culturally arrogant people. They regard their contributions in such fields as art and cuisine to be superior to less 'cultured' countries, and look down on others who don't measure up to their standards. America in particular is seen as devoid of any measure of sophistication and this will come out very strongly in any personal dealings that an American will have with them. Which is kind of ironic because the French are either the biggest or second biggest consumers of McDonalds in Europe.

Similarly, they also have strong ties back to the days when they were a powerful world force with a far ranging empire. There's that feeling of "we were a world power once so we should be still be considered one." A few years back the French resumed nuclear testing in the Pacific, despite howls of protest from all the Pacific nations. The French basically took a "**** you, we will do what we like" attitude to the protests and engendered massive anti-French sentiment which still lingers today (and of course which is reciprocated because they feel wronged at the negative feelings directed at them).

On the flip side: France is, as has been noted, a country with socialist leanings, however I feel the previous posters are equating socialism with communism, and they are of course different things. Socialism in France means, for example, a health and welfare system that the U.S. can only dream of, and rights and conditions for workers that can amaze people from elsewhere (although to be fair, some social experiments haven't been a success either but not everything can be perfect). France is not anti-capitalist, but they don't believe in capitalism at the expense of personal freedoms. There is a powerful egalitarian streak in the French consciousness which again can result in an arrogant attitude towards countries which they feel treat that countries' citizens badly. Some of the above posters have seen that attitude in French foreign policy but not known why - it's because the French place their interests and the interests of their people above all other considerations. While it can be a good thing for a government to actually care for it's people, it can also rub people the wrong way when interests collide (the aforementioned Pacific nuclear testing, for example).

So if anyone has managed to make it this far down, there's an all-to-brief and superficial insight into the French psyche.

(o)./^\.(o)
08-18-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Thudd
This post will be full of generalisations, so bear that in mind. There are always exceptions.

The French are a very culturally arrogant people. They regard their contributions in such fields as art and cuisine to be superior to less 'cultured' countries, and look down on others who don't measure up to their standards. America in particular is seen as devoid of any measure of sophistication and this will come out very strongly in any personal dealings that an American will have with them. Which is kind of ironic because the French are either the biggest or second biggest consumers of McDonalds in Europe.

Similarly, they also have strong ties back to the days when they were a powerful world force with a far ranging empire. There's that feeling of "we were a world power once so we should be still be considered one." A few years back the French resumed nuclear testing in the Pacific, despite howls of protest from all the Pacific nations. The French basically took a "**** you, we will do what we like" attitude to the protests and engendered massive anti-French sentiment which still lingers today (and of course which is reciprocated because they feel wronged at the negative feelings directed at them).

On the flip side: France is, as has been noted, a country with socialist leanings, however I feel the previous posters are equating socialism with communism, and they are of course different things. Socialism in France means, for example, a health and welfare system that the U.S. can only dream of, and rights and conditions for workers that can amaze people from elsewhere (although to be fair, some social experiments haven't been a success either but not everything can be perfect). France is not anti-capitalist, but they don't believe in capitalism at the expense of personal freedoms. There is a powerful egalitarian streak in the French consciousness which again can result in an arrogant attitude towards countries which they feel treat that countries' citizens badly. Some of the above posters have seen that attitude in French foreign policy but not known why - it's because the French place their interests and the interests of their people above all other considerations. While it can be a good thing for a government to actually care for it's people, it can also rub people the wrong way when interests collide (the aforementioned Pacific nuclear testing, for example).

So if anyone has managed to make it this far down, there's an all-to-brief and superficial insight into the French psyche.

Why bump a five month old thread?

irpker
08-18-2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by (o)./^\.(o)
Why bump a five month old thread?

He wanted to discuss left-wing philosophy and flame America for not mimicking France's social and economic policies.

clemsonsenior
08-18-2004, 06:52 PM
Just for the record, it began w/ Charles de Gaulle as early as WW2. He really set the tone for US-French relations in the second half of the 20th century.

jimjoneskoolaid
08-18-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Thudd
This post will be full of generalisations, so bear that in mind. There are always exceptions.

The French are a very culturally arrogant people. They regard their contributions in such fields as art and cuisine to be superior to less 'cultured' countries, and look down on others who don't measure up to their standards. America in particular is seen as devoid of any measure of sophistication and this will come out very strongly in any personal dealings that an American will have with them. Which is kind of ironic because the French are either the biggest or second biggest consumers of McDonalds in Europe.

Similarly, they also have strong ties back to the days when they were a powerful world force with a far ranging empire. There's that feeling of "we were a world power once so we should be still be considered one." A few years back the French resumed nuclear testing in the Pacific, despite howls of protest from all the Pacific nations. The French basically took a "**** you, we will do what we like" attitude to the protests and engendered massive anti-French sentiment which still lingers today (and of course which is reciprocated because they feel wronged at the negative feelings directed at them).

On the flip side: France is, as has been noted, a country with socialist leanings, however I feel the previous posters are equating socialism with communism, and they are of course different things. Socialism in France means, for example, a health and welfare system that the U.S. can only dream of, and rights and conditions for workers that can amaze people from elsewhere (although to be fair, some social experiments haven't been a success either but not everything can be perfect). France is not anti-capitalist, but they don't believe in capitalism at the expense of personal freedoms. There is a powerful egalitarian streak in the French consciousness which again can result in an arrogant attitude towards countries which they feel treat that countries' citizens badly. Some of the above posters have seen that attitude in French foreign policy but not known why - it's because the French place their interests and the interests of their people above all other considerations. While it can be a good thing for a government to actually care for it's people, it can also rub people the wrong way when interests collide (the aforementioned Pacific nuclear testing, for example).

So if anyone has managed to make it this far down, there's an all-to-brief and superficial insight into the French psyche.
its so true, americans are not capable of dreaming of a socialized health care system that allows 15000 people to die from a heat wave !! I am green with envy .

Thudd
08-18-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by (o)./^\.(o)
Why bump a five month old thread?
Because I was searching for something else and it came up in the search and intruiged me, that's all. And I was bored ;)

Thudd
08-18-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by jimjoneskoolaid
its so true, americans are not capable of dreaming of a socialized health care system that allows 15000 people to die from a heat wave !! I am green with envy .
Given that most of those people died at home it's hardly the fault of the system, although it did certainly buckle under the strain of the flood of heat-related cases that came in at the time. Which of course just goes to show that no system is perfect.

And for the record, I think the French are arrogant pricks too. I was just theorising on why, not apologising for them.

Discussions on left-wing philosphy are welcome though!

BunnyStew
08-18-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Norman
since France and the US fought so many times together , the Independence War, WW I and II
Unlinke most nations they never fought against each other and both nations have a long democratical history.



The french are a bunch of tree hugging pussies. They never helped us when the England attacked america. They just sent over ambassadors to give false hope of France arrival. And when they did come the war was over already. How convenient for them. Then they gave us "The Statue of LIberty" for no hard feelings.

When France was invaded they surrendered without a fight. They simply put their arms in the air and waved their bed sheets out the windows.

Go on google and type "French victories". And click on the first link.

(o)./^\.(o)
08-18-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by BunnyStew
The french are a bunch of tree hugging pussies. They never helped us when the England attacked america. They just sent over ambassadors to give false hope of France arrival. And when they did come the war was over already. How convenient for them. Then they gave us "The Statue of LIberty" for no hard feelings.

When France was invaded they surrendered without a fight. They simply put their arms in the air and waved their bed sheets out the windows.

Go on google and type "French victories". And click on the first link.

Ummm... they just didn't want to invest there troops and money in an American victory so they didn't send troops right away. When the Americans one a few battles, then they did send over troops.

garfieldinitaly
08-18-2004, 09:17 PM
I don't have a problem with the french at all but this is one of my favorite pictures of all time. They sure didn't put up much of a fight in WWII.

mASF
08-18-2004, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by MetaforeX
Because France is full of ungrateful nancyboys who'd be eating sauerkraut if it weren't for the US.

Dumbass :rolleyes:

BigZeke
08-18-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by mASF
Dumbass :rolleyes:

Figures a commie like you would post regarding that. I thought of responding to that, but then I figured, no....mASF would be right on the trail. What do you search for that crap?
Yes, all educated people know that it was not soely the US that saved Europe. Why do you insist on brining this subject up? Does it get your hammer and sickle hard or something?

Denion_Jr
08-19-2004, 12:59 AM
Racism sucks.

In anycase, to many uneducated posters, with false beliefs (remember the equation to knowledge, is knowledge = justifications x beliefs x truths).

So many arguements made, so many not even worth argueing over, but I will do it anyways.

US saving France:
Wrong, the Allies saved France, not the US. Sure US was part of the Allies.

If it wasn't for the Allies France would be speaking german/eating german food:
I suppose this is one of the leading arguements as of to why the french are considered as weak and cowards. Let me ask this right now why America isn't calling the rest of the countries Germany invaded weak?

France never helped America in the Revolutionary war:
Wrong again, France and Spain helped tremendously with large contributions to American forces against England.

Stop with the racism.

Yes the french are a race, if you even want to try to prove me wrong, look at this url first, and note it uses 'the German race' as an example.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=race

BigZeke
08-19-2004, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by Denion_Jr
Let me ask this right now why America isn't calling the rest of the countries Germany invaded weak?

Because France was part of the Allied forces, and they did not put up much of a fight. And then we cannot forget the Maginot Line, another brilliant French masterpeice. The other countries Germany invaded were small and weak, France was supposed to be a European power, seeing as how it was part of the League of Nations and all. But they pretty much gave up, and then there was the pro-Nazi Vichy French regime

rottie
08-19-2004, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Tim
That's true, especially in the two World Wars.

Yeah, and you wouldn't have even had a country to come running to help in the two world wars if it weren't for the French aiding you in the war of Independance. You'd still be eating crumpets, drinking tea, and singing God Save the Queen.

Show some ****ing dignity, a bit of modesty, and a bit of appreciation for what was given to you.

user4165146510
08-19-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by MetaforeX
Because France is full of ungrateful nancyboys who'd be eating sauerkraut if it weren't for the US.

Yep. so would we if it weren't for a few key battles and good weather.....

Denion_Jr
08-19-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by rottie
Yeah, and you wouldn't have even had a country to come running to help in the two world wars if it weren't for the French aiding you in the war of Independance. You'd still be eating crumpets, drinking tea, and singing God Save the Queen.

Show some ****ing dignity, a bit of modesty, and a bit of appreciation for what was given to you.

A great arguement to counter the arguement that if it wasn't for America France would be under Germany's control. For if it wasn't for France and Spain, America would be under England rule.

jimjoneskoolaid
08-19-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by rottie
Yeah, and you wouldn't have even had a country to come running to help in the two world wars if it weren't for the French aiding you in the war of Independance. You'd still be eating crumpets, drinking tea, and singing God Save the Queen.

Show some ****ing dignity, a bit of modesty, and a bit of appreciation for what was given to you. oh thanks for the tip rottie!, as always you shine with your history lessons for we ignorant americans,
The debt to the french was more than repaid with american blood in both world wars.The blood of my own family was spilled for the purpose of removing the nazis from france. As always america has had many policy differences with france which is fine, dont fight in a war that you dont find just, I dont care. the problem most americans have with the french is not their policy choices, its their attack on our culture . prior to both world wars, and post conflict the french have treated americans as culturally inept backwoods inbreds. this issue coupled with their massively bruised ego due to their loss of international super power status has caused great disdain for americans which in turn has caused american attitudes to sour towards the french. I am thankful for the french helping us 300 years ago. It would be nice if the french took your advice and acted towards us with dignity, modesty and appreciation for what was given to them 60 years ago.

iOse
08-19-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by GoB
The game was to name the songs and they were all AMERICAN songs. Just goes to show how fuked up the situation in France is.

"tout le monde en parle" was the name of the show is that it?
well, our music suck in general, so that's normal :rolleyes:

Banban
08-19-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by BigZeke
Because France was part of the Allied forces, and they did not put up much of a fight.

yes after something like 300 000 deaths

moron

jimjoneskoolaid
08-19-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by iOse
"tout le monde en parle" was the name of the show is that it?
well, our music suck in general, so that's normal :rolleyes: I disagree fifth hour hero are one of my favorite bands, they are french canadian. anyway I like a lot of french pop culture but it gets looked over here mainly because of poor distribution. on ocassion if a film like amelie gets a lot of international attention , it will become popular here but for the most part its hard to find french media here. stereolab( although they are based in the uk) are probably the most popular of all french singing groups in america.

Banban
08-19-2004, 02:19 PM
there was this whole hate in US against france due to our supporting the UN for the prolongation of the WMD investigation instead of starting a war in the month. With bush junior speeches like : "Sadam has biological weapons, bought uranium, we are in danger, there is terrorism, 09/11, fear, nuclear weapons, fear 9/11, fear, fear, 9/11, fear, fear, fear, fear" i understand american's people urgency to go to war, but today it seems like France was right after all.

As for french "hate" for US, i tell it as i see it : it's plain jealousy.

Denion_Jr
08-19-2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by jimjoneskoolaid
oh thanks for the tip rottie!, as always you shine with your history lessons for we ignorant americans,
The debt to the french was more than repaid with american blood in both world wars.The blood of my own family was spilled for the purpose of removing the nazis from france. As always america has had many policy differences with france which is fine, dont fight in a war that you dont find just, I dont care. the problem most americans have with the french is not their policy choices, its their attack on our culture . prior to both world wars, and post conflict the french have treated americans as culturally inept backwoods inbreds. this issue coupled with their massively bruised ego due to their loss of international super power status has caused great disdain for americans which in turn has caused american attitudes to sour towards the french. I am thankful for the french helping us 300 years ago. It would be nice if the french took your advice and acted towards us with dignity, modesty and appreciation for what was given to them 60 years ago.

The blood of your own family wasn't spilled for the purpose of removing the nazi's from france...America fought for many other reasons, hitlers plan was to conquer the world, in which America would eventually be targeted. America participated for numerous reasons, the one I listed above of course, and to forward it's self in world relations.

I doubt you are thankful to the french, have you ever been to France and actually met a french person who spited americans? You have no knowledge, just beliefs.

jimjoneskoolaid
08-19-2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Denion_Jr
The blood of your own family wasn't spilled for the purpose of removing the nazi's from france...America fought for many other reasons, hitlers plan was to conquer the world, in which America would eventually be targeted. America participated for numerous reasons, the one I listed above of course, and to forward it's self in world relations.

I doubt you are thankful to the french, have you ever been to France and actually met a french person who spited americans? You have no knowledge, just beliefs. yes, I have met many, many french, because of a foreign exchange program at a local school. and many of them spited me just for being american. I havent been to france , but the experience of those that I have met here well qualify me to make that statement. simply because we had more than one reason to expel germany from france does negate the fact that we went as their allies to help . you said it your self, we went to forward ourselves in world relations. as such we helped liberate the french from the nazi occupation, and yes in fact my familys blood was spilled for that purpose of liberating the french , the geogrphic location of the battle in which they died ( normandy) dictate that they died in a battle specificly designed for the liberation of france, regardless of the larger goals of the us, they did in fact die for the purpose I stated. My knowledge is not in question, you didnt disprove anything I said. you simply stated your interpretation of the war which did not negate anything I said . you have no logic , just a one sided view of the events

(o)./^\.(o)
08-19-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Banban
there was this whole hate in US against france due to our supporting the UN for the prolongation of the WMD investigation instead of starting a war in the month. With bush junior speeches like : "Sadam has biological weapons, bought uranium, we are in danger, there is terrorism, 09/11, fear, nuclear weapons, fear 9/11, fear, fear, 9/11, fear, fear, fear, fear" i understand american's people urgency to go to war, but today it seems like France was right after all.

As for french "hate" for US, i tell it as i see it : it's plain jealousy.

I don't know why everyone thinks the hate between the US public and French public started with the whole Iraq thing. It was way before that.