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View Full Version : Am I eating enough? Am I starving? Am I kidding myself?



dpain
04-16-2007, 08:14 AM
Hi,

I'm 5'9" and average 147lbs now and about 12% bf. I have some photos up so you can get some idea.

my goal is to be 150lbs with 8% bf but I'm not sure if I'm eating enough without eating too much because I tend to gain weight pretty quicky.

I weighed about 135lb at my lowest about 5 months ago.

I had lost about 60 pounds since 2003. I lost the first 30lbs through extreme caloric restriction with barely any exercise and maintained that for about 2years. I lost the latter 30lbs with somewhat of an irregular eating habits and lots of running up to last year when I ran a marathon.

From reading the stickies and search, I've pretty much killed my metabolism for a very very long time and may be still, but I'm not sure. I always had moderate metabolism but a high appetite and would barely get full eating a whole pie of large pizza. Also, I've been running so I figure my metabolism is pretty good. BUT, I found myself being really hungry and binged once or twice a month (~9000 calories ). I don't do that any more...

Currently I've been trying to maintain a consistent eating habit using the
50p/30c/20f with 1hour session of weight training 6 Days a week. I've been doing this for the last month and a half but physique-wise I just see my mid section slowly gaining fat.

M/T and Th/F are Push/Pull repeats and
W and Sat are 30mins of High Intensity (90%) Static Cardio -- not HIIT

I used one of the calculators available readily and my total Daily Caloric Expenditure is about 2500-2600 But I'm not sure this works for me.

I've been averaging about 1500-1600 calories and I'm 'maintaining' weight

My routine diet is

Meal 1:
1cup Oatmeal Cooked
1cup of Egg whites
Flaxseed Oil 2 Capsules
1 Multi-V
4.5grams of glucosamine

Meal 2:
an Apple or Plum

Meal 3:
Can Tuna 4oz with spicy brown mustard and salsa for taste.
2 cups of greens
1 rye cracker about 10grams of carbs.

Meal 4:
Same as 3

Meal 5(pre)
Can Tuna 4oz with spicy brown mustard and salsa for taste.
2 cups of greens
1 slice of whole wheat bread

Meal 6(Post-shake)
ON Whey - 45gram
Dextrose - 2 tablespoons

Meal 7
6oz of Lean Meat
Some greens(Spinach, lettuce, broccoli..etc.)

Before bed
1 cup of 2% milk and Whey 30grams
1/2 cup of fat free Cottage Cheese with 15grams of Whey nuked.

Sometimes I'll add:

2 tablespoons of Peanut Butter depending on if need to suppress some appetite before bed

OR

a handful of almonds and walnuts

//////

I don't know if my metabolism is good or not.
I can run at 8.5mph for 30mins not get tired much.

Should I assume that my metabolism is OK and continue to eat nominal amount of calories as I have detailed above or increase my average consumption and try to see where I level off in increments of 200-300calories per week and accept the fact that I may yo yo back up to my original weight of like 200?

Also I read that in general I should multiply my full weight by 15 and cut 500 or add 500 depending on whether I want to lose of gain but is there a absolute-minimum amount of calorie that ANYONE should not dip below to save themselves from Starvation Mode?

I'm utterly confused about my nutrition.

Thanks for anyone patient enough to assess my newb request.

dPain

landon3
04-16-2007, 08:46 AM
Congrats running the marathon last year, today's the boston verison and its raining outside. Poor bastards, anyways... yes you are straving yourself. I don't know how old you are, but your BMR is around 1700 based on your stats. Since your eating under your BMR, your asking it to slow down. This could be a major cause of fat accumalation. Muscle is active tissue that requires calories. Don't give it calories and it won't wanna stay or build.

Just because your staying the same weight doesnt mean your not losing muscle and gaining fat. So, slowly bump your calories up to your maintance level and you should see your hunger being in better check.


Your doing 50p/30c/20f which works for some people but since you also run I would reccomend doing atleast 40/40/20 and go from there. Carbs are important, especially for runners.

as for your diet..

Add some protein to meal 2, and if I were to nitpick some fat wouldn't hurt either.

meal 5 needs more carbs. I would drop the green beans and replace them
with an apple or banana.

add some fat to meal 7

keep the PB for your prebed snack, if I were to nitpick I would say replace the whey with casein.

landon3
04-16-2007, 08:53 AM
also, yea.. your metabolism probably isn't to happy with you. Eating under your BMR will make it mad and slow. Just because you can run doesn't mean your metabolism is fast. Think about in terms of the wild and survival, but i am not gonna get into that.

As I said, slowly bump it up to maintenance, and if you start seeing unwanted weight gain in the form of fat, slowly drop the calories by 200 every 2 weeks. Don't look in the mirror, think your getting fat after 3 days and decide to drop your calories, its a recipe for disaster.

nutrition is tricky business, but you'll get the hang of it.

dpain
04-16-2007, 08:38 PM
I'm 27.

Really appreciate the time for your feedback.

I've upped my calories to 2000 at 40/40/20 Macro and I'll see where that goes in two weeks.

I'll keep this posted with updates for progress.

alexclark
04-16-2007, 08:48 PM
If you aren't seeing improvements in the mirror, your routine isn't working very well. It also appears you're overtraining - working out at high intensity 6 days a week will overwork most peoples CNS. If you really, really want to do cardio on Wed and Sat, do low intensity. High intensity treats your CNS similar to heavy lifting, while low intensity is much less harsh.

Bottom line, you need to be adding weight or reps in your routine at every workout. Otherwise you are doing something wrong. I made the mistake of not progressing for a LONG time. Finally I decided to tone down the lifting and do much less volume - then the gains started coming and haven't stopped.

JBM150
04-17-2007, 04:08 AM
Your situation is a LOT like mine. I kinda wrecked my metabolism with eating low cal while exercising too much. I despite taking in low cals, I was actually putting on and keeping fat, especially around my midsection. I'm now trying to bulk up and have managed to get my cals up to around 2400-2600/day and I can't tell you how much better I feel. I still may not be taking in quite enough but its better to increase slowly. My mood is better, I'm not nearly as tired as I was, and I'm actually cutting fat. Make sure you get in enough good fats from fish oils, flax, PB, whole eggs (don't be scared of 'em), olive oil, etc. and good carbs, especially if you're training like you say you are. Keep with it and you'll see the improvement you want.

Get some
04-17-2007, 06:44 AM
Good job on the weight-loss btw.

quijibo
04-17-2007, 06:56 AM
Not enough complex carbs in my opinion. I eat a mammoth amount of carbs and I still lose weight, why? Because I eat under my maintenance level. Of course it is going to be hard running when your body has no fuel to go to, thats why I never did a low carb diet. I'm way too active.

I would recommend adding more complex carbs, and some more fruit. Also I would not consider an apple or plum a complete meal.

Also your pre-workout meal seems "heavy" to me. Eating with that type of food in my gut gives me bad stomach pains and gas. I find it very difficult to workout with veggies and meat in my gut. I prefer eating oats, an MRP, and some fruit. Goes down easy and the carbs give me good energy. That's just me though, I don't know if you have the same problems.

Also, binge eating is natural man, I think we all have a day where we eat more then we should, but you only did it once or twice a month. Most people would consider that an "off day" or refeeding. Since you are dieting very strictly some people say that having a refeeding helps restore glycogen levels in your body.

Personally, I like having a diet that makes me feel satisfied all the time, I usually create a small calorie deficit to lose weight. My maitenance level is 5,500 cal., so I eat about 4,700 to 5,000 to lose weight (yes I am very active so my cals are that high), I also allow myself 1 treat a day, where I get to replace any meal with what I WANT to eat. Now if I'm very strict on cutting, then I'll only have 1 to 2 treats a week (a treat to me would be replacing a meal with another meal, such as my oats/protein powder for some sushi/sashimi/japanese food). My treats are fairly balanced so I don't worry about it.

That way I lose weight slowly, about 1 to 2 pounds a week, but I don't feel deprived at all. Hell, half the time I don't even feel like eating. Have you seen 4,700 cal worth of CLEAN food? It's ridiculous.

djansen
04-17-2007, 08:03 AM
Hi,

I'm 5'9" and average 147lbs now and about 12% bf. I have some photos up so you can get some idea.

my goal is to be 150lbs with 8% bf but I'm not sure if I'm eating enough without eating too much because I tend to gain weight pretty quicky.

I weighed about 135lb at my lowest about 5 months ago.

I had lost about 60 pounds since 2003. I lost the first 30lbs through extreme caloric restriction with barely any exercise and maintained that for about 2years. I lost the latter 30lbs with somewhat of an irregular eating habits and lots of running up to last year when I ran a marathon.

From reading the stickies and search, I've pretty much killed my metabolism for a very very long time and may be still, but I'm not sure. I always had moderate metabolism but a high appetite and would barely get full eating a whole pie of large pizza. Also, I've been running so I figure my metabolism is pretty good. BUT, I found myself being really hungry and binged once or twice a month (~9000 calories ). I don't do that any more...

Currently I've been trying to maintain a consistent eating habit using the
50p/30c/20f with 1hour session of weight training 6 Days a week. I've been doing this for the last month and a half but physique-wise I just see my mid section slowly gaining fat.

M/T and Th/F are Push/Pull repeats and
W and Sat are 30mins of High Intensity (90%) Static Cardio -- not HIIT

I used one of the calculators available readily and my total Daily Caloric Expenditure is about 2500-2600 But I'm not sure this works for me.

I've been averaging about 1500-1600 calories and I'm 'maintaining' weight

My routine diet is

Meal 1:
1cup Oatmeal Cooked
1cup of Egg whites
Flaxseed Oil 2 Capsules
1 Multi-V
4.5grams of glucosamine

Meal 2:
an Apple or Plum

Meal 3:
Can Tuna 4oz with spicy brown mustard and salsa for taste.
2 cups of greens
1 rye cracker about 10grams of carbs.

Meal 4:
Same as 3

Meal 5(pre)
Can Tuna 4oz with spicy brown mustard and salsa for taste.
2 cups of greens
1 slice of whole wheat bread

Meal 6(Post-shake)
ON Whey - 45gram
Dextrose - 2 tablespoons

Meal 7
6oz of Lean Meat
Some greens(Spinach, lettuce, broccoli..etc.)

Before bed
1 cup of 2% milk and Whey 30grams
1/2 cup of fat free Cottage Cheese with 15grams of Whey nuked.

Sometimes I'll add:

2 tablespoons of Peanut Butter depending on if need to suppress some appetite before bed

OR

a handful of almonds and walnuts

//////

I don't know if my metabolism is good or not.
I can run at 8.5mph for 30mins not get tired much.

Should I assume that my metabolism is OK and continue to eat nominal amount of calories as I have detailed above or increase my average consumption and try to see where I level off in increments of 200-300calories per week and accept the fact that I may yo yo back up to my original weight of like 200?

Also I read that in general I should multiply my full weight by 15 and cut 500 or add 500 depending on whether I want to lose of gain but is there a absolute-minimum amount of calorie that ANYONE should not dip below to save themselves from Starvation Mode?

I'm utterly confused about my nutrition.

Thanks for anyone patient enough to assess my newb request.

dPain

id say add some protein to meal 2, loose the whey before bed, and i agree that you need more complex carbs. good luck!

dpain
04-18-2007, 06:02 PM
Congrats running the marathon last year, today's the boston verison and its raining outside. Poor bastards, ......

Just because your staying the same weight doesnt mean your not losing muscle and gaining fat. So, slowly bump your calories up to your maintance level and you should see your hunger being in better check.



Thanks and yes I felt sorry for the runners but it makes the race more interesting.


also, yea.. your metabolism probably isn't to happy with you. Eating under your BMR will make it mad and slow. Just because you can run doesn't mean your metabolism is fast. Think about in terms of the wild and survival, but i am not gonna get into that.

As I said, slowly bump it up to maintenance, and if you start seeing unwanted weight gain in the form of fat, slowly drop the calories by 200 every 2 weeks. Don't look in the mirror, think your getting fat after 3 days and decide to drop your calories, its a recipe for disaster.

nutrition is tricky business, but you'll get the hang of it.

I think my issue was the fear of gaining fat that kept me training as much as I was. But now I see that I was actually triggering fat gain by not eating enough. From what I gather.. it is far better to eat more than enough than to have unwanted fat gain while wasting away your training.

It is tricky indeed. But I know from striving for a goal is that it's the little things that separate getting to that next step.


If you aren't seeing improvements in the mirror, your routine isn't working very well. It also appears you're overtraining - working out at high intensity 6 days a week will overwork most peoples CNS. If you really, really want to do cardio on Wed and Sat, do low intensity. High intensity treats your CNS similar to heavy lifting, while low intensity is much less harsh.

Bottom line, you need to be adding weight or reps in your routine at every workout. Otherwise you are doing something wrong. I made the mistake of not progressing for a LONG time. Finally I decided to tone down the lifting and do much less volume - then the gains started coming and haven't stopped.

I decided to rest from cardios and reintroduce them later when I have my metabolism in check with regular feeds. I do deadlifts once a week and Squats twice and I've been increasing the weight every time so far. But aside from that all of my other exercises have remained pretty stagnant and my arms are fatiqued. I think I need to slim down my program a little.


Your situation is a LOT like mine. I kinda wrecked my metabolism with eating low cal while exercising too much. I despite taking in low cals, I was actually putting on and keeping fat, especially around my midsection. I'm now trying to bulk up and have managed to get my cals up to around 2400-2600/day and I can't tell you how much better I feel. I still may not be taking in quite enough but its better to increase slowly. My mood is better, I'm not nearly as tired as I was, and I'm actually cutting fat. Make sure you get in enough good fats from fish oils, flax, PB, whole eggs (don't be scared of 'em), olive oil, etc. and good carbs, especially if you're training like you say you are. Keep with it and you'll see the improvement you want.

I think I can understand now the fat gains even with enough exercise. I got caught between wanting to maintain my weight but letting the muscle mass catch up and burn the fat gradually but it just doesn't seem to be effective this way.



Good job on the weight-loss btw.

THANKS!


Not enough complex carbs in my opinion. I eat a mammoth amount of carbs and I still lose weight, why? Because I eat under my maintenance level. Of course it is going to be hard running when your body has no fuel to go to, thats why I never did a low carb diet. I'm way too active.

I would recommend adding more complex carbs, and some more fruit. Also I would not consider an apple or plum a complete meal.

Also your pre-workout meal seems "heavy" to me. Eating with that type of food in my gut gives me bad stomach pains and gas. I find it very difficult to workout with veggies and meat in my gut. I prefer eating oats, an MRP, and some fruit. Goes down easy and the carbs give me good energy. That's just me though, I don't know if you have the same problems.

Also, binge eating is natural man, I think we all have a day where we eat more then we should, but you only did it once or twice a month. Most people would consider that an "off day" or refeeding. Since you are dieting very strictly some people say that having a refeeding helps restore glycogen levels in your body.

Personally, I like having a diet that makes me feel satisfied all the time, I usually create a small calorie deficit to lose weight. My maitenance level is 5,500 cal., so I eat about 4,700 to 5,000 to lose weight (yes I am very active so my cals are that high), I also allow myself 1 treat a day, where I get to replace any meal with what I WANT to eat. Now if I'm very strict on cutting, then I'll only have 1 to 2 treats a week (a treat to me would be replacing a meal with another meal, such as my oats/protein powder for some sushi/sashimi/japanese food). My treats are fairly balanced so I don't worry about it.

That way I lose weight slowly, about 1 to 2 pounds a week, but I don't feel deprived at all. Hell, half the time I don't even feel like eating. Have you seen 4,700 cal worth of CLEAN food? It's ridiculous.

Wow that's alot of calories to take in regularly. Maybe I'll get to that level of active lifestyle and metabolism but I'm going to need alot more discipline to get there.