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chiba102
02-11-2004, 04:28 PM
***Warning***
Discuss this topic only at a heightened level of intelligence


Pakistan is under a lot of internal turmoil

There President has survived a couple of assassination attempts recently

Their Top scientist has admitted that he has sold nuclear technology to rouge nations
He has also admitted his stanch fundamentalist beliefs in wanting to help Muslims have these weapons

The President of Pakistan was powerless to punish him. He was pardoned and allowed to keep the millions he made in selling nuke technology. Partly because the Pakistani government most likely was looking the other way as he sold this stuff.

The Pakistani military has a strong Muslim fundamentalist element to it due to the conflict with India that pits them as enemies due to faith. Which is why the Nation of Pakistan was created, to provide Muslims in India there own country and allow them to govern them selves.

The Pakistani Intelligence Agency Created the Taliban and supported them. There is a strong sense of loyalty to them also. Because of the long working relations that they formed together and enjoyed over the years.

The religious schools that export the fundamentalist form of Islam is the most popular religious schooling available to children. It is free of charge thanks to the Saudi government.


What should America due if the President of Pakistan is killed and/or turmoil over turns the government there?

What if the Pakistani people vote in a Fundamentalist government like Iran, or worst?

What should and how far should America go to protect us?

batfonso
02-11-2004, 04:30 PM
I'd tell India that I saw a Pakastani piss on a statue of Bishnu. A few nukes later, problem solved.

Starsky
02-11-2004, 04:32 PM
Pakistan already has nuclear bombs. Just shows the dangers of terrorists and proliferation mixed together. Also another reason why it was right to take out Saddam. WMD Proliferation is the single greatest threat to the world in probably....well its just the single greatest threat. Liberals need to start taking this stuff seriously. Bush wasn't joking around when he said you could see a mushroom cloud over an American city.


The only thing surprising is that it already hasn't happened.

Dr_Funk
02-11-2004, 05:10 PM
Turn it into one giant sheet of glass. :D

LordNeon
02-11-2004, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
Liberals need to start taking this stuff seriously. Bush wasn't joking around when he said you could see a mushroom cloud over an American city.

We DO take it seriously (but don't let me get in the way of your fun knocking down another liberal straw man). Pakistan has been a ticking time bomb for some time now, as have a few other nations. That's why going after Iraq, of which there was very little solid evidence of an immediate threat compared to other countries, was a particularly dumb use of resources, and the rationale that Saddam poised a threat that much sillier. But I don't care to get into this argument yet again ....

I'm sure there's already some kind of secret plan in the works to have US special forces overtake and disarm Pakistan's nuclear facilities in the event of disaster. India may be involved, too. In fact, I hear Israel actually had plans to do the same at one point - maybe they still do.

Batz w/ Napalm
02-11-2004, 06:39 PM
They only thing the USA can do if PAK fell apart would be to go in take the NUKES, take the DOCUMENTS, and then KILL everyone involved in making the nukes. Then run the **** out of there!

Deadgame
02-11-2004, 06:47 PM
We should sanction them and send the un inspectors in there.lol

gluon999
02-11-2004, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Starsky
Pakistan already has nuclear bombs. ... Liberals need to start taking this stuff seriously. Bush wasn't joking around when he said you could see a mushroom cloud over an American city.


The only thing surprising is that it already hasn't happened.

Why are you calling the liberals to take this seriously when Bush himself is petting the Pakistani's like he pets his dog? If Bush really cared about the threat of terrorists acquiring WMDs, the first country to go would be Pakistan, considering that EVERYONE knows that Pakistan has nukes and is unstable, and Pakistan is the place where the Taliban and Al Qaeda possess a stronghold.

Heck, they couldn't even find WMDs in Iraq and still invaded it. If they really want to prevent a mushroom cloud over New York or LA, the US should have invaded Pakistan instead of Iraq.

gluon999
02-11-2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by a. americanus
So, if the U.S. does invade Pakistan you're not going to whine about that too, correct?

Should I copy and paste my previous post or do you have the capacity to process what you read and understand it?

*ShaGGs*
02-11-2004, 09:27 PM
why cant pakastain and india just attack each other so america, england, and australia doesnt have to invade them.

Ruthless4Life
02-12-2004, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by *ShaGGs*
why cant pakastain and india just attack each other so america, england, and australia doesnt have to invade them.

Exactly what I'm gonna say.

What should the west do? Let India take care of them. :D

dave22
02-12-2004, 12:12 AM
Why not let India and Pakistan wipe each other out??? Because who knows what kind of damage the fallout would create.

Jay12345
02-12-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Why not let India and Pakistan wipe each other out??? Because who knows what kind of damage the fallout would create.

Exactly,I'ld prefer (as Im sure my offspring would) not to breath the fallout of that for the next 100 years. I like living without any extra extremities....

*ShaGGs*
02-12-2004, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by Jay12345
Exactly,I'ld prefer (as Im sure my offspring would) not to breath the fallout of that for the next 100 years. I like living without any extra extremities....

man extra extremities are overrated ;) :D

irpker
02-12-2004, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by *ShaGGs*
man extra extremities are overrated ;) :D

I know what you mean. The ladies always ask where my third leg came from~

exhortae
02-12-2004, 03:46 AM
This thread sucks, and just so you know they are pakistanis bber on this board, and I don't think they would appreciate foreigners debating on should we go to their country too.

Have some respect for members for god sake.

if we would have started thread about this couintry is instable should we go there too the misc section would be overwhelmed by them

besides pakistan has nuclear weapon so USA can't go there.

chiba102
02-12-2004, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
This thread sucks, and just so you know they are pakistanis bber on this board, and I don't think they would appreciate foreigners debating on should we go to their country too.

Have some respect for members for god sake.

if we would have started thread about this couintry is instable should we go there too the misc section would be overwhelmed by them

besides pakistan has nuclear weapon so USA can't go there.

The topic is timely and not a reflection on anyone of Pakistani decent. There are issues within that country that are going to come to a boil at some point. The fact that they have nukes makes it Americas concern on what goes on within that country. Let me restate that, it is everyone in the worlds concern that Pakistan stabilizes or dismantles its nukes.

But what will happen if the government of Pakistan looses control to radical elements?

Should we attempt to conduct air strikes? But, what happens if we fail to destroy them and they are able to launch their rockets?

Commando style raids? That may not be practical or effective.

Massive Ground attack? It will take months to gather enough men and material to conduct this.

Preemptive first strike nuclear attack? This is/was the answer for the Russian threat


We are talking about controlling nuclear material and weapons. Forget which country has them but if that country can not be responsible for them, what is our answer?

Do we need for nukes to go missing before we take action?

Do we need one to go off in an American City first?

This is something that is happening today in our world, what is your answer to your safety and your childrens safety?

exhortae
02-12-2004, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by chiba102


Do we need one to go off in an American City first?



they don't have any intercontinental missiles, so don't be afraid you won't be killed while getting you morning blow job.

they have nukes, you can't attack them. that's all that has to be known, USA altough they were more powerful than URSS never attacked them because they have nuclear weapons.

nuclear weapon is the best protection against foreign agression. it is not possible for a country to attack another country that has nuclear power. it's a fact.

chiba102
02-12-2004, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
they don't have any intercontinental missiles, so don't be afraid you won't be killed while getting you morning blow job.

they have nukes, you can't attack them. that's all that has to be known, USA altough they were more powerful than URSS never attacked them because they have nuclear weapons.

nuclear weapon is the best protection against foreign agression. it is not possible for a country to attack another country that has nuclear power. it's a fact.

You don't need an intercontinental missile to have a nuke go off in America.

WTF shiploads of drugs sneak in here everyday

You don't think that the components of a bomb could not be shipped in legally? The parts could be labeled as lab and/or scientific equipment, who is checking?

The explosive could be smuggled in like drugs Shipped into Mexico and walked across the border. Everything could be assembled here and detonated.

Even the president himself has suggested that was a future possibility. I am sure that you are not suggesting that you know more then the President of the United States are you?

Let me take a moment to school you. The only reason that we never attacked Russia or that Russia never attacked us was the little fact called mutually assured destruction. Incase you don't know what that was, I will explain. We could not launch our nukes and have them reach Russian before they launched theirs.

The end result would be that both nations would be destroyed. One first them ten minutes later the other.

This is not the case with Pakistan. We have no fear of massive retaliation from them. So the point you make is not even a point.


You claim that:
Nuclear weapon is the best protection against foreign aggression. It is not possible for a country to attack another country that has nuclear power. It’s a fact.

Were do you get your facts from? That is not a fact. If that was you are suggesting that America could not vaporize Pakistan. I think we could easily. Like you said they don't have the means to reach us with their bombs.

Pakistan would not even have a chance to launch their rockets and most likely would never know we launched ours until they started getting hit.

Come back with real facts or an answer to the question I stated.

exhortae
02-12-2004, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
You don't need an intercontinental missile to have a nuke go off in America.

WTF shiploads of drugs sneak in here everyday

You don't think that the components of a bomb could not be shipped in legally? The parts could be labeled as lab and/or scientific equipment, who is checking?

The explosive could be smuggled in like drugs Shipped into Mexico and walked across the border. Everything could be assembled here and detonated.

Even the president himself has suggested that was a future possibility. I am sure that you are not suggesting that you know more then the President of the United States are you?

Let me take a moment to school you. The only reason that we never attacked Russia or that Russia never attacked us was the little fact called mutually assured destruction. Incase you don't know what that was, I will explain. We could not launch our nukes and have them reach Russian before they launched theirs.

The end result would be that both nations would be destroyed. One first them ten minutes later the other.

This is not the case with Pakistan. We have no fear of massive retaliation from them. So the point you make is not even a point.


You claim that:
Nuclear weapon is the best protection against foreign aggression. It is not possible for a country to attack another country that has nuclear power. It’s a fact.

Were do you get your facts from? That is not a fact. If that was you are suggesting that America could not vaporize Pakistan. I think we could easily. Like you said they don't have the means to reach us with their bombs.

Pakistan would not even have a chance to launch their rockets and most likely would never know we launched ours until they started getting hit.

Come back with real facts or an answer to the question I stated.

it would be almost impssible to smuggle nuclear weapons out of pakistan wihtout the military governement knowing it. Now if you say that the militarie would smuggle the nuclear weapon that's another story (but that has nothing to do with any instability in pakistan)

let me tell you something for my turn. If US send troops to pakistan first they will need airports to be able to station their weaponery if they put it in irak pakistan will know instantly that they prepare an attack.

if US lauch a missile from america to pakistan , they will have all the time to strike back (not on america) but guess who is near them (yes israel my friend) when you know that the politic in america is lobbyed by israelian I highly doubt this is a solution. if US want to send a ****load of missile on pakistan again a missile take time to come,and by the time it will cross the pakistanian airspace radras will hav detected it, and then a base far from the impact will lauch a nuclear weapon against isral.


about your president, if your question is do I consider myself smarter than him, yes without a doubt I am smarter.

chiba102
02-12-2004, 08:59 AM
America does not have to launch a nuke from the states. Our subs and aircraft carries carry more then enough to level Pakistan.

We could wipe them out in minutes or less


As far as the Pakistani Military goes... They just went through a purge of its ranks not to long ago. It seems that the Fundamentalist have a foot hold in the military.

And The Pakistani Intelligence Agency = Taliban


And if you want to be smarter then the President

use spell check first before posting

exhortae
02-12-2004, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
America does not have to launch a nuke from the states. Our subs and aircraft carries carry more then enough to level Pakistan.

We could wipe them out in minutes or less


As far as the Pakistani Military goes... They just went through a purge of its ranks not to long ago. It seems that the Fundamentalist have a foot hold in the military.

And The Pakistani Intelligence Agency = Taliban


And if you want to be smarter then the President

use spell check first before posting

do you want us to continue in french,

or even arabic if you want

Batz w/ Napalm
02-12-2004, 09:33 AM
Sadly enough, we have a larger threat now of nukes and WMD than we did during the cold war. Really force will not work and in time other nations will find the way to create them if they wish. It is just a matter of time. The only we can do as a country and a world is to set up international policies and rules to stem the tide of prolification. But that wont help if all nations involved will not help out the fullest. Then again what happens if a nation is caught in the process of making one or has made one? Then what do we do? Do we as a world attack the nation, impose sanctions, or just accept what happened? North Korea has nukes but no one is willing to deal with them. Very appealing idea to many nations out there to get WMD and a delivery system.


Many nations are trying to get WMD to one up another but few realize the consiquences / devestation and responsibility that comes with owning those horrible things.

Also the issue comes what if a group and not a nation is trying to gain WMD. How do you stop them? Who do you punish if they use that WMD on your nation?

In a scary way. Its almost more important to have a nuclear armada of missiles now than it was before. But that doesn't garantee the nuts wont use what they have.

I remember when Bush senior made his speech when the Berlin wall went down. How he stated that the children of america can sleep at night safe now with out the threat of nuclear weapons over their heads. I laughed when I heard that. I never worried then. I knew who my enemy was and I knew they didn't want the same thing. Now I worry about the threat.

The world needs to get involved and the world not just the USA needs to take action when confronted with a situation. What action should be taken, I don't know. But slowing the process of technology and information is the best step right now. Also getting nations to agree not to learn and create such weapons.

chiba102
02-12-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
do you want us to continue in french,

or even arabic if you want


I speak more then one language also

But, the language at this board is English

Let us keep it on topic

placebo
02-12-2004, 10:59 AM
Here's a good idea, why don't we f.ucking go talk to them and try to resolve the problems without f.ucking killing anyone?

Anyway, I don't think Bush will invade Pakistan, there's not that much oil there as far as I know.

masryinlondonuk
02-12-2004, 11:05 AM
The whole point of WMD is not to use them on each other. People have seen what happens when they are used - Hiroshima and Nagasaka and the effects it is having till this very day. The whole point that countries procure WMD is as a detterent against other states.

The fact is that the Pakistani army has a strong hold - Peverez Only came to power after a military coup. Even if the country were to destabilise do you think it can really afford a war? Alot of developing nations barely have enough money to stay afloat as it is - a war is the last thing they want.

With regards with what Batz said abount nuclear proliferation. It is an idealistic idea - works in theory but not in practice. The US is the one who has gone against any Nuclear proliferiation treaties. It continues to do so. Thus, when other countries do the same they can just easily turnaround and say the US is doing it too.

The only way to prevent people getting hold of WMD is to destroy any existence of them. This way there will be no way of getting hold of them. Who is to say that there are not US scietists selling Nuclear technology to terrorists? Who is to say the government isn't doing it itself? The US helped Israel with its WMD - how do we know they haven't helped other countries.

The problem with US foreign policy, is that the US plays one card and expects the world to play another. It doesn't work like that. Why has kyoto failed? The US doesn't want to hurt its economy - instead they go and drill alaska up.

dave22
02-12-2004, 11:06 AM
This exhortae seems to have alot of faith in the Pakistan govt. Is he just happy that a muslim country finally has nukes to somewhat counter the so called "Zionist entity?" BTW, FYI Pakistan wouldn't nuke Israel, they would proabably nuke India, they hate them alot more than Israel.

You make Paksistan sound alot stonger than it actually it, I mean the current leader is only in charge because he took over in a military coup. Plus I don't give a **** if this thread happens to offend someone who might be Pakistani, in fact they should be on this thread then, and give their opinions.

exhortae
02-12-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by dave22
This exhortae seems to have alot of faith in the Pakistan govt. Is he just happy that a muslim country finally has nukes to somewhat counter the so called "Zionist entity?" BTW, FYI Pakistan wouldn't nuke Israel, they would proabably nuke India, they hate them alot more than Israel.

You make Paksistan sound alot stonger than it actually it, I mean the current leader is only in charge because he took over in a military coup. Plus I don't give a **** if this thread happens to offend someone who might be Pakistani, in fact they should be on this thread then, and give their opinions.

don't bring me in your hate posts

dave22
02-12-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
don't bring me in your hate posts

I don't hate you, I just think you have a little to much love for a country ruled by a military dictator.

exhortae
02-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by dave22
I don't hate you, I just think you have a little to much love for a country ruled by a military dictator.

did I talk about any dictator, I only talked about pakistanis citizens that are not different from you.

It just piss me off when I hear things like if we want we can screw them in the blink of an eye.
beleive it or not there will be a time when these contries will be develloped and people do not forget how others have been treating them. Hate is something that grows during centuries, you can keep it quiet for a moment but after a while it will eventually blow up in your face.

chiba102
02-12-2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
did I talk about any dictator, I only talked about pakistanis citizens that are not different from you.

It just piss me off when I hear things like if we want we can screw them in the blink of an eye.
beleive it or not there will be a time when these contries will be develloped and people do not forget how others have been treating them. Hate is something that grows during centuries, you can keep it quiet for a moment but after a while it will eventually blow up in your face.



That sounds very radical

I think BB.Com has just moved our national security threat level up to code Orange

dave22
02-12-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
did I talk about any dictator, I only talked about pakistanis citizens that are not different from you.

It just piss me off when I hear things like if we want we can screw them in the blink of an eye.
beleive it or not there will be a time when these contries will be develloped and people do not forget how others have been treating them. Hate is something that grows during centuries, you can keep it quiet for a moment but after a while it will eventually blow up in your face.

So if this Mussaraf guy gets overthrown, and Pakistan adopts a govt. that resembles Iran, the US should sit back and do nothing???

GH78
02-12-2004, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by exhortae
This thread sucks, and just so you know they are pakistanis bber on this board, and I don't think they would appreciate foreigners debating on should we go to their country too.

Have some respect for members for god sake.

if we would have started thread about this couintry is instable should we go there too the misc section would be overwhelmed by them

besides pakistan has nuclear weapon so USA can't go there.

STFU FRENCHboy.

masryinlondonuk
02-12-2004, 12:59 PM
What threat is Iran posing to the US right now?? Honestly, seriously??

dave22
02-12-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by masryinlondonuk
What threat is Iran posing to the US right now?? Honestly, seriously??

I'm saying that if the current dictator of Pakistan is overthrown, and the new govt. of Pakistan resembles that of Iran, then the US wouldn't have any problems??

LordNeon
02-12-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by masryinlondonuk
What threat is Iran posing to the US right now?? Honestly, seriously??

Well, if nothing else, they pose more of a threat than Iraq did. They actually had been trying to develop nuclear weapons. And now that US troops are in Iraq and the Shi'ites are starting to not like them, the Iranians are in a pretty good position to start causing trouble.

Thankfully, their regime is also on the verge of collapse. Hopefully, if Bush has any sense at all (not something I'd bet on, sadly), he'll just stand back and let it happen. We'll only screw it up if we try to push it.

philhill4
02-12-2004, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by chiba102
***Warning***
Discuss this topic only at a heightened level of intelligence


Pakistan is under a lot of internal turmoil

There President has survived a couple of assassination attempts recently

Their Top scientist has admitted that he has sold nuclear technology to rouge nations
He has also admitted his stanch fundamentalist beliefs in wanting to help Muslims have these weapons

The President of Pakistan was powerless to punish him. He was pardoned and allowed to keep the millions he made in selling nuke technology. Partly because the Pakistani government most likely was looking the other way as he sold this stuff.

The Pakistani military has a strong Muslim fundamentalist element to it due to the conflict with India that pits them as enemies due to faith. Which is why the Nation of Pakistan was created, to provide Muslims in India there own country and allow them to govern them selves.

The Pakistani Intelligence Agency Created the Taliban and supported them. There is a strong sense of loyalty to them also. Because of the long working relations that they formed together and enjoyed over the years.

The religious schools that export the fundamentalist form of Islam is the most popular religious schooling available to children. It is free of charge thanks to the Saudi government.


What should America due if the President of Pakistan is killed and/or turmoil over turns the government there?

What if the Pakistani people vote in a Fundamentalist government like Iran, or worst?

What should and how far should America go to protect us?


First stop with your bullsh*t "heightened level of intelligence" crap. After some of your other posts you have proven that you have a very twisted mind.

Now onto the truth about Pakistan.
1. Our current policy since 9/11 has netted us over 1000 al qaeda members in Pakistan alone.

2. It has led us to capture dozens of their leaders in the country of Pakistan.

3. It has brought us to a place where India and Pakistan now have more open dialogue than ever before.

4. We now have improved not only our relations with that country but public opinion there has gone from 75% unfavorable towards the US and is not 60% favorable.

5. The pardon of the nuclear scientist was done as a means to get him to open up completely about everything which he is currently doing. It is leading us now to info that goes way way beyond the axis of evil.

Now if Pakistan does become a problem that threatens our lives then we should obviously do what is necessary even if that means regime change in Pakistan as well.

chiba102
02-12-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by philhill4
First stop with your bullsh*t "heightened level of intelligence" crap. After some of your other posts you have proven that you have a very twisted mind.

Now onto the truth about Pakistan.
1. Our current policy since 9/11 has netted us over 1000 al qaeda members in Pakistan alone.

2. It has led us to capture dozens of their leaders in the country of Pakistan.

3. It has brought us to a place where India and Pakistan now have more open dialogue than ever before.

4. We now have improved not only our relations with that country but public opinion there has gone from 75% unfavorable towards the US and is not 60% favorable.

5. The pardon of the nuclear scientist was done as a means to get him to open up completely about everything which he is currently doing. It is leading us now to info that goes way way beyond the axis of evil.

Now if Pakistan does become a problem that threatens our lives then we should obviously do what is necessary even if that means regime change in Pakistan as well.

I have said it once and I will say it again post your source for this information?

Where are you pulling this crap from? Link? Direction? Or is it the talk in the barber shop?

Let me see what credible source you are quoting when you state this as facts.


Am I asking a lot? You are throwing numbers out like you have solid information, share it.

If not just go away. You can not state information as a fact unless you can prove it or state your source for this information. Simple, like your view of the world, very childlike.

masryinlondonuk
02-12-2004, 03:51 PM
Again, Iran is not looking for trouble. They are a heavily isolated country and want to rejoin the international community. As an example, they are attempting to revitalise relations with Egypt, an Islamic and Middle Eastern ally - one of america's biggest allies.

Of course they pose a bigger threat than Iraq - Iraq was run down and its people starving and dying in under equipped and under staffed hospitals - if they were lucky to get a place. Iraq was no real threat. Whilst I commend Bush for having the guts to do what his father should of done back in 1990/91 - his argument in favour of the war was the wrong one to put forward.

IMO America should not go around changing regimes that do not fit with their description. America has done this too many times - panama for instance. The result in the long run is that the new regime becomes as corrupt if not more corrupt than its predecessor and someone having to step in again.

The Us should be careful in what it does next. It is unlikely that the US will escape the Iraq affair unscathed - considering no chemical/biological/WMDs have been found - and it was on that footing they went to war.

gluon999
02-12-2004, 04:54 PM
If Musharraf and his successors keep turning their face to those infiltrating into India, while allowing the smuggling of weapons (considering that Khan was pardoned ), there will come a point within the next ten years when India will say it has had enough and invade Pak with the permission of the US.

The US currently doesn't want to act on Pakistan because of the help the Paks are providing, even though it is known and acknowledged fact that there are many factions of the Taliban and Al Qaeda still existent in Pakistan. As long as US can keep milking the cow, it will do so, and when the milk runs out, it's ass-kicking time.

futballman
02-12-2004, 06:02 PM
i dont know much at all about all of this.. **** im only 15 and i dont study this sort of thing :P but.. i just want to know if im understanding this correctly..

why should it be US that has to take care of pakistan.. why isnt the rest of the world as worried as we are?.. correct me if im wrong. but my understanding from reading this thread was that america isnt in the most danger if pakistan gets overthrown..
shouldnt other nations work with the US atleast to device a plan of action for all of this.. or is that already happening?

just need some clearified information thanks :)

PROSA
02-12-2004, 08:48 PM
Remember just over two years ago when the U.S. began its war against the Taliban in Afghanistan? There were dire predictions of huge unrest in Pakistan, how the streets of Karachi and Lahore and other cities would be filled with hundreds of thousands of protestors denouncing the U.S. and demanding death to its lackey Musharraf. In reality, there were a few small, non-violent protests - this in a country where huge demonstrations are not at all uncommon.
In my opinion, Pakistan is much more stable than usually predicted.

Jay12345
02-12-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by *ShaGGs*
man extra extremities are overrated ;) :D


I'll have to take your word on that one lol :D

Ruthless4Life
02-12-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by placebo
Here's a good idea, why don't we f.ucking go talk to them and try to resolve the problems without f.ucking killing anyone?

Anyway, I don't think Bush will invade Pakistan, there's not that much oil there as far as I know.

What a great idea, why didn't I think of this?

Oh, on our way to Pakistan let's find Osama and talk to him too. :rolleyes:

exhortae
02-13-2004, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by PROSA
Remember just over two years ago when the U.S. began its war against the Taliban in Afghanistan? There were dire predictions of huge unrest in Pakistan, how the streets of Karachi and Lahore and other cities would be filled with hundreds of thousands of protestors denouncing the U.S. and demanding death to its lackey Musharraf. In reality, there were a few small, non-violent protests - this in a country where huge demonstrations are not at all uncommon.
In my opinion, Pakistan is much more stable than usually predicted.

I saw different things on french TV, don't beleive what the media shows you.

masryinlondonuk
02-13-2004, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by futballman
i dont know much at all about all of this.. **** im only 15 and i dont study this sort of thing :P but.. i just want to know if im understanding this correctly..

why should it be US that has to take care of pakistan.. why isnt the rest of the world as worried as we are?.. correct me if im wrong. but my understanding from reading this thread was that america isnt in the most danger if pakistan gets overthrown..
shouldnt other nations work with the US atleast to device a plan of action for all of this.. or is that already happening?

just need some clearified information thanks :)


America shouldn't have to be the only one taking care of Pakistan. The problem is that America has made it is prerogative to combat 'terror'. So by that sense Pakistan might be a threat of terror if it gets destabilised and which is why there are people on the board talking about America taking Pakistan on.

The fact of the matter is that the Pakistani people have other worries - like trying to earn some money to feed their families. last thing they want is war.

chiba102
02-13-2004, 05:05 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
I saw different things on french TV, don't beleive what the media shows you.


At least I can agree with you on this statment

Americans believe what they see on TV

They believe that our reports are not one sided and tinted with misinformation


The fact is broadcast networks jockey for ratings and tilt reports to what they believe will provide the best ratings, which may not necessarily be the most accurate.

After Daniel Pearl was decapitated in Pakistan I doubt America has many reporters running around gathering facts. They most likely rely on filtered government reports.

chiba102
02-13-2004, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by masryinlondonuk
America shouldn't have to be the only one taking care of Pakistan. The problem is that America has made it is prerogative to combat 'terror'. So by that sense Pakistan might be a threat of terror if it gets destabilised and which is why there are people on the board talking about America taking Pakistan on.

The fact of the matter is that the Pakistani people have other worries - like trying to earn some money to feed their families. last thing they want is war.

Only the most ignorant in here believe that my purpose in writing this threat was an attack on the people of Pakistan.

This thread is an attack on the fundamentalist element in that country that is working hard to over throw the current government. These very people would not have a problem selling or using a nuclear device. There targets can and would be anyone military or civilian target and history has shown us that civilians most likely will be the target.

My question is plain as day. How far should the American government go to protect us? Those of us on here from Europe understand this, when I say us it most likely will be you that we are protecting. It is far easier to smuggle and detonate a nuke in Europe then to bring it to America.

The only scenario that would work would be a first strike. That was the plan we had with Russia and I am sure it is the plan with Pakistan.

Would you blame America security if a nuke went off in America? What if the only way to make sure that did not happen was to destroy any countries that are developing nuclear weapons. Would you support that?

exhortae
02-13-2004, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
? Those of us on here from Europe understand this, when I say us it most likely will be you that we are protecting. It is far easier to smuggle and detonate a nuke in Europe then to bring it to America.



we don't need you to protect us. other nations don't hate us.

chiba102
02-13-2004, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
we don't need you to protect us. other nations don't hate us.



Who you lying to?


Educate your self on what it is that we are talking about. Foolish replies like that is why Europe is always in need of American help.



Here is a hint since you are truly clueless


Wahhabism

If you need more help in understanding why bowing down to this threat and surrendering may not work, ask me.

The French have used their famous plan B for so long that you fail to see it won’t work this time.

builtbeast
02-13-2004, 06:24 AM
I'm sure if Pakistan destabilizes there is nothing to worry about, the UN and World Court will handle it.

:rolleyes:

chiba102
02-13-2004, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by builtbeast
I'm sure if Pakistan destabilizes there is nothing to worry about, the UN and World Court will handle it.

:rolleyes:




I feel safer already

exhortae
02-13-2004, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
Who you lying to?


Educate your self on what it is that we are talking about. Foolish replies like that is why Europe is always in need of American help.



Here is a hint since you are truly clueless


Wahhabism

If you need more help in understanding why bowing down to this threat and surrendering may not work, ask me.

The French have used their famous plan B for so long that you fail to see it won’t work this time.

On the opposite of you I don't educate myself by wtaching TV.

It is a threat, i never saud the contrary.

the way US treat those threat only make them grow stronger.

again instead of killing others your governement should understand that helping people and educating them is much more benficial on the whole community.


but who am I talking to, as you consider the third world citizens as being second zone humans just worht the bullet it take to kill them.

if you think that your so called war against terrorism will protect you you are dead wrong.

It takes only one human to kill thousnad of people and the fact that you are still runing against oussama ben laden just reinforce this theory. and even if you get it there will be someone else.

on the other hand if you were really helping those population they would be grateful to you and not hate you.

Canadian_AF
02-13-2004, 06:49 AM
If Pakistan becomes unstable?? Pray...

If Islamic Extremists take hold, guess who Bin Ladens new favorite government will be? Yup..

Islamic Extremists, /w nuclear weapons, and a crazy mofo, like Bin Laden using them as his puppets, the rest is in the bible...

Cheers

chiba102
02-13-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
On the opposite of you I don't educate myself by wtaching TV.

It is a threat, i never saud the contrary.

the way US treat those threat only make them grow stronger.

again instead of killing others your governement should understand that helping people and educating them is much more benficial on the whole community.


but who am I talking to, as you consider the third world citizens as being second zone humans just worht the bullet it take to kill them.

if you think that your so called war against terrorism will protect you you are dead wrong.

It takes only one human to kill thousnad of people and the fact that you are still runing against oussama ben laden just reinforce this theory. and even if you get it there will be someone else.

on the other hand if you were really helping those population they would be grateful to you and not hate you.




You believe that America does not help third world countries?

You are guessing at that right, because the USA is the world leader in Foreign aid and charitable contributions. Let me say this again the world leader.

The American government and its citizens contribute more to helping the world then do any other nation on earth. Maybe you feel that is not enough.

Oil rich Arab nations do far less at helping their own people then anyone else. Europe, well they are not ever really the leader at anything are they.



Here let me quote you:

but who am I talking to, as you consider the third world citizens as being second zone humans just worht the bullet it take to kill them.

You really don't know anything about me do you? Yet you feel that you can run your mouth like you understand everything. You know less about me then you do about Islamism, I bet you still think I am talk about Islam don't you.

You should really feel free to state something that is based in fact and not cry because you feel that someone is being mistreated.

Since I take it that you are French and you feel free to state trash about hate, do you care to discuss your countries moral obligation to make reparations to Haiti? Your countries extortion demands crippled that country and has made it one of the poorest in the world. Children have starved to death over your treatment of the Haitian people.

Take a deep breath and try not to comment like you are 5 years old.

exhortae
02-13-2004, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
You believe that America does not help third world countries?

You are guessing at that right, because the USA is the world leader in Foreign aid and charitable contributions. Let me say this again the world leader.


man you are so full of ****.



in 1970 the international community agreed to give 0,7% of their national produtcion to help the developpement of the third world.


the USA never agreed to do this


in 2000 22 countries (including USA) were giving 0,22% of the national production to help third world countries. If you take off the USA from those statistics the number jumps to 0,33%
it means that USA where giving less than 0,22% of their national production.

get back to looking for your porn, that's all you can do.

exhortae
02-13-2004, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by chiba102

Take a deep breath and try not to comment like you are 5 years old.

again my first language isn't english

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND CHIBA my first language isn't english

masryinlondonuk
02-13-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
Only the most ignorant in here believe that my purpose in writing this threat was an attack on the people of Pakistan.

This thread is an attack on the fundamentalist element in that country that is working hard to over throw the current government. These very people would not have a problem selling or using a nuclear device. There targets can and would be anyone military or civilian target and history has shown us that civilians most likely will be the target.

My question is plain as day. How far should the American government go to protect us? Those of us on here from Europe understand this, when I say us it most likely will be you that we are protecting. It is far easier to smuggle and detonate a nuke in Europe then to bring it to America.

The only scenario that would work would be a first strike. That was the plan we had with Russia and I am sure it is the plan with Pakistan.

Would you blame America security if a nuke went off in America? What if the only way to make sure that did not happen was to destroy any countries that are developing nuclear weapons. Would you support that?

You misunderstood what I was saying. I don't see what you're saying as an attack on the people of Pakistan. I just think that people let their imaginations run wild when they talk about WMDs and countries destabilising. Even if Pakistan did become destabilised - India wouldn't like that. neither would China - it's too close to home.

You said what if the only way to make sure that an attack on America did not happen was to destroy any countries developing nuclear weapons. In response I would say - If you are going to destroy some countries that have nuclear weapons then I would not agree. If however, you destroyed all nuclear weapons - including those that the US possess then I would agree. You cannot play by one set of ruels and expect others to abide to another. Just look at Kyoto and how thats flopped because of such policy.

dave22
02-13-2004, 08:42 AM
Love that one response, "instead of fighting, let's talk about our differences." "Rolls eyes."

Can you imagine Sharon and Hamas???

Sharon: I know you vow our destruction but can there ever be a peace???

Hamas: Only when you are driven into the sea.

Sharon: Oooooookay, what now??

gluon999
02-13-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Love that one response, "instead of fighting, let's talk about our differences." "Rolls eyes."

Can you imagine Sharon and Hamas???

Sharon: I know you vow our destruction but can there ever be a peace???

Hamas: Only when you are driven into the sea.

Sharon: Oooooookay, what now??

thanks for the unbiased perspective.

philhill4
02-13-2004, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
I have said it once and I will say it again post your source for this information?

Where are you pulling this crap from? Link? Direction? Or is it the talk in the barber shop?

Let me see what credible source you are quoting when you state this as facts.


Am I asking a lot? You are throwing numbers out like you have solid information, share it.

If not just go away. You can not state information as a fact unless you can prove it or state your source for this information. Simple, like your view of the world, very childlike.


Childlike view you are the one out here creating fiction and posting links to fiction. GO GET HELP. YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND.

As for providing links my knowledge comes from every source possible. I don't just read one article from some garbage site like you and just spew off sh*t.

What you need to do is go educate yourself through more sources than just internet sites. It takes time to become well informed. First start by studying history without sitting there looking for a connection of the dots conspiracy crap. Then begin to research and study from all the great resources we have in this country from your local library to the government resources available.

Next start getting in touch with all your elected officials like your local, state and national reps. From them you can gain alot of knowledge on current things going on in congress for example. Their offices will usually provide you with alot of weekly updates.

Next take some time every day and read. Throughout the day I read through multiple newspapers. I try and get a broad range of ideas that is why I usually go with about a half dozen from different parts of the country. Then start reading books by analysts from both sides of the aisle. Now make sure not to bother with nuts jobs like Michael Moore ok. I know you like that conspiracy stuff.

Through constant knowledge and education you will find yourself very aware of what is going on. You will be able to provide ACCURATE info without having to provide a link to some bullsh*t website as if that is what makes you correct.

chiba102
02-13-2004, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by philhill4
Childlike view you are the one out here creating fiction and posting links to fiction. GO GET HELP. YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND.

As for providing links my knowledge comes from every source possible. I don't just read one article from some garbage site like you and just spew off sh*t.

What you need to do is go educate yourself through more sources than just internet sites. It takes time to become well informed. First start by studying history without sitting there looking for a connection of the dots conspiracy crap. Then begin to research and study from all the great resources we have in this country from your local library to the government resources available.

Next start getting in touch with all your elected officials like your local, state and national reps. From them you can gain alot of knowledge on current things going on in congress for example. Their offices will usually provide you with alot of weekly updates.

Next take some time every day and read. Throughout the day I read through multiple newspapers. I try and get a broad range of ideas that is why I usually go with about a half dozen from different parts of the country. Then start reading books by analysts from both sides of the aisle. Now make sure not to bother with nuts jobs like Michael Moore ok. I know you like that conspiracy stuff.

Through constant knowledge and education you will find yourself very aware of what is going on. You will be able to provide ACCURATE info without having to provide a link to some bullsh*t website as if that is what makes you correct.



You can write all of this yet not back up anything you state as fact.

All I ask for is what source are you pulling your information from and you rant like a child. You gave numbers and percentages and said thing were facts...All I said was from where?

Come back correct or don't comment at all. I am trying not to insult you but me asking you were you are getting your information from is hardly an attack on you.

You seem like you have to defend your BS by ranting.

chiba102
02-13-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
again my first language isn't english

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND CHIBA my first language isn't english


You would be acting like a baby even if this was in French or Arabic

Vous êtes toujours un enfant

chiba102
02-13-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
man you are so full of ****.



in 1970 the international community agreed to give 0,7% of their national produtcion to help the developpement of the third world.


the USA never agreed to do this


in 2000 22 countries (including USA) were giving 0,22% of the national production to help third world countries. If you take off the USA from those statistics the number jumps to 0,33%
it means that USA where giving less than 0,22% of their national production.

get back to looking for your porn, that's all you can do.





Well if America never agreed to it then they didn't. Besides where are you pulling this outdated information from? 2000?

Do you have something current?


Do you think that France will ever repay Haiti the 22 Billion they owe them? After all Haiti is one of the poorest countries in the world and France does owe them this money. PAY WHAT YOU OWE, The people of Haiti are starveing because of French greed!

You swines Pay THEM BACK!


Then GO TO AFRICA and PAY THEM BACK EVERTHING YOU STOLE FROM THEM! France has a long history of stealing from the third world countries. Is this not true?


Is Haiti not in the world court trying to get France to pay them back?

chiba102
02-13-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by exhortae


get back to looking for your porn, that's all you can do.




My porn of choice from this moment on will be Third world men porking French and Arab women.


Or maybe some American Men doing some fine porn acting on French Arab women. That sounds like a plan.


I owe this all to you but let us talk about porn in the sex forum..

chiba102
02-13-2004, 11:00 AM
Until France pays what they owe to Haiti you can not comment any longer on fair treatment for third world countries.

France has done to much harm to allow this to continue unnoticed.

Work at correcting your own country before you feel like you can comment on AMERICA


http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:87472807&refid=ink_key

http://www.haiti-info.com/article.php3?id_article=609

http://www.haitiaction.com/News/Rest.html

http://medialternatif.org/alterpresse/article.php3?id_article=361+


Read and educate yourself


America may not give what you think is fair, but we do not steal from starving peasants like the French do.

exhortae
02-13-2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
Until France pays what they owe to Haiti you can not comment any longer on fair treatment for third world countries.

France has done to much harm to allow this to continue unnoticed.

Work at correcting your own country before you feel like you can comment on AMERICA


http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:87472807&refid=ink_key

http://www.haiti-info.com/article.php3?id_article=609

http://www.haitiaction.com/News/Rest.html

http://medialternatif.org/alterpresse/article.php3?id_article=361+


Read and educate yourself


America may not give what you think is fair, but we do not steal from starving peasants like the French do.

Man when it come to geopolitics you are a joke


It's all a set up made by their president aristide because their country has been under riots claiming for the president to get off the governement. he is using the old tactics to find foreigners enemy so its people stop trying to push him out.

get your fact staight we don't owe them those 22 billion dollars and any international court would not even bother judging this joke.


just like americans are braiwahsed by the military lobby.

war against drugs
war against terrorism
war against blabla.......

man you're always at war it's just silly.

But you are right, france has made mistakes in africa and we are not proud of it. but the governement are working a lot to reastablish good links with those african countries. We have made mistakes but unlike you we recognize them.

anyway I didn't want to bring this thread into another useless America VS europe thread.

PS : thank god most americans don't think like you, the world would have been hell by now

BTW I have known a lot of haitian when I was in canada and none of them has ever complained agaisnt the frecnh governemnet. they all have been very friendly to me.

I can't say the same things to the arabs I know when they talk about your governement.

exhortae
02-13-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
My porn of choice from this moment on will be Third world men porkingArab women.


Or maybe some American Men doing some fine porn acting on Arab women. That sounds like a plan.




I don't know who you are trying to insult getting this low , but my dad is french and my mom german :rolleyes:

chiba102
02-13-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
Man when it come to geopolitics you are a joke


It's all a set up made by their president aristide because their country has been under riots claiming for the president to get off the governement. he is using the old tactics to find foreigners enemy so its people stop trying to push him out.

get your fact staight we don't owe them those 22 billion dollars and any international court would not even bother judging this joke.


just like americans are braiwahsed by the military lobby.

war against drugs
war against terrorism
war against blabla.......

man you're always at war it's just silly.

But you are right, france has made mistakes in africa and we are not proud of it. but the governement are working a lot to reastablish good links with those african countries. We have made mistakes but unlike you we recognize them.

anyway I didn't want to bring this thread into another useless America VS europe thread.

PS : thank god most americans don't think like you, the world would have been hell by now

BTW I have known a lot of haitian when I was in canada and none of them has ever complained agaisnt the frecnh governemnet. they all have been very friendly to me.

I can't say the same things to the arabs I know when they talk about your governement.


Pay what you owe
How dare you blame the victims of your countries aggression?

You extorted money from them unfairly and blame them

Very manly to blame them for wanting to be paid back

And another thing if France was not lobbing the world court to ignore Haitis request for a hearing this may have been settled by now.

chiba102
02-13-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by exhortae
I don't know who you are trying to insult getting this low , but my dad is french and my mom german :rolleyes:


You brought the suggestion of porn up in the first place


Maybe you just need to stop posting here on this thread

I really don't care where you are from, you are ignorant no matter what country you claim is yours.

exhortae
02-13-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
Pay what you owe
How dare you blame the victims of your countries aggression?

You extorted money from them unfairly and blame them

Very manly to blame them for wanting to be paid back

And another thing if France was not lobbing the world court to ignore Haiti?s request for a hearing this may have been settled by now.

can you explain what makes you think we owe them 22 billion dollars, that's neraly 10 times they're national production.


if your talking about colonization well no court has never ruled positively on this.


if you talking about something please explain it.

masryinlondonuk
02-13-2004, 12:00 PM
People please. This is a political debate. There is no need to resort to name calling. Exhortae the comment about porn was uncalled for. Chiba the reply about porn was uncalled for too. Please can we refrain from resorting to such methods. Lets keep all arguments political people.

I'm not a moderator or anything, but this thread was becoming an interesting thread till then. So yeh - lets forget about the agrro and start fresh. Im sure Chiba did nto intend for the thread to take this route so lets respect his wishes.

exhortae
02-13-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by chiba102
You brought the suggestion of porn up in the first place




****************************





EDIT : you are right masryinlondonuk, no need of this

chiba102
02-13-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by masryinlondonuk
People please. This is a political debate. There is no need to resort to name calling. Exhortae the comment about porn was uncalled for. Chiba the reply about porn was uncalled for too. Please can we refrain from resorting to such methods. Lets keep all arguments political people.

I'm not a moderator or anything, but this thread was becoming an interesting thread till then. So yeh - lets forget about the agrro and start fresh. Im sure Chiba did nto intend for the thread to take this route so lets respect his wishes.


Agreed


It should stay on topic

Pro Troll
02-13-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by chiba102
.But what will happen if the government of Pakistan looses control to radical elements?

Should we attempt to conduct air strikes? But, what happens if we fail to destroy them and they are able to launch their rockets?

Commando style raids? That may not be practical or effective.

Massive Ground attack? It will take months to gather enough men and material to conduct this.

Preemptive first strike nuclear attack? This is/was the answer for the Russian threat
. you and your Government need to keep your noses out of other countries affairs;sure strike Pakastan because they pose as a threat.it was your country that forced them into aquiring nuclear weapons in the first place.back in the 60's your government sent assasins over there to knock off a high ranking official because he had the plans to start a space program which would have placed Pakastan ahead of the super powers in the race to achieve the goal, somehow both the assasin and the official ended up dead and the plans were never found.very suspicious. so go ahead air strike,ground strike.start WW3

philhill4
02-13-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by chiba102
You can write all of this yet not back up anything you state as fact.

All I ask for is what source are you pulling your information from and you rant like a child. You gave numbers and percentages and said thing were facts...All I said was from where?

Come back correct or don't comment at all. I am trying not to insult you but me asking you were you are getting your information from is hardly an attack on you.

You seem like you have to defend your BS by ranting.


Dude first of all I mostly just pop in here a few times a day when I get the chance. All my numbers and facts come from an array of sources. I don't sit there and take a note as I am reading and make sure to quote this and that. Sorry I am way to f*cking busy to get into that. I type fast and I just give my feedback.

If you want to find info that matches what I say then just do the research if you have the time. If not then fine we can just go back and forth at each other. I gain my knowledge from so many friggin sources it would take me an hour just to post all the things I read and research everyday. I have an extremely good memory and my facts are almost never wrong. I am not trying to brag I am just saying it the way it is.

NOTHING I HAVE STATED IS BS. Remember though you are the one who has made referrence to 9/11 being something other than an al-qaeda attack. That right there is the biggest batch of bullsh*t ever.

philhill4
02-13-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Pro Troll
you and your Government need to keep your noses out of other countries affairs;sure strike Pakastan because they pose as a threat.it was your country that forced them into aquiring nuclear weapons in the first place.back in the 60's your government sent assasins over there to knock off a high ranking official because he had the plans to start a space program which would have placed Pakastan ahead of the super powers in the race to achieve the goal, somehow both the assasin and the official ended up dead and the plans were never found.very suspicious. so go ahead air strike,ground strike.start WW3


Look I don't know what country you are from and I don't care. As long as we are the ones protecting everyone, feeding everyone, funding all other nations national debts then guess what we will put our noses anywhere we want. Not one country, read this, not one country on this planet can get by through a year without recieving millions and in some cases billions of dollars in money, aid, food, defense, medicine, agriculture etc. just to take care of themselves without THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not one country gets by without our help. That is a fact. When you combine that with most countries being run like some stone age hell hole plus these same folks attack us, well F*CK YOU ALL we will do what we want when we want.

You want the US out of your lives then I say this to at least 80% of all nations on the planet, GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND FIX YOUR COUNTRIES.

Pro Troll
02-13-2004, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by philhill4
Look I don't know what country you are from and I don't care. As long as we are the ones protecting everyone, feeding everyone, funding all other nations national debts then guess what we will put our noses anywhere we want. Not one country, read this, not one country on this planet can get by through a year without recieving millions and in some cases billions of dollars in money, aid, food, defense, medicine, agriculture etc. just to take care of themselves without THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not one country gets by without our help. That is a fact. When you combine that with most countries being run like some stone age hell hole plus these same folks attack us, well F*CK YOU ALL we will do what we want when we want.

You want the US out of your lives then I say this to at least 80% of all nations on the planet, GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND FIX YOUR COUNTRIES. the US is funding those countries because they owe those countries,they owe alot of countries,****ing thieves. they're occupying Iraq at the moment.who's next?

irpker
02-13-2004, 02:46 PM
It doesn't matter what America does, because India will respond first.

masryinlondonuk
02-13-2004, 02:55 PM
America doesn't fund Britian. Nor does it fund France or Germany.

Umkazar
02-13-2004, 03:05 PM
It we allow Nuclear weapons and missle techonalgy to fall in the hands of more extream muslims we might as well kill millions of our own people, as that is all they will do with such things. If the time comes that such a situation arises the US should step up and destroy all of pakistans nuclear technolagy, scientists and anything relating to it, anything short of that will sign the death warrent of millions of Isralis and Amercians.

chiba102
02-17-2004, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by philhill4
Dude first of all I mostly just pop in here a few times a day when I get the chance. All my numbers and facts come from an array of sources. I don't sit there and take a note as I am reading and make sure to quote this and that. Sorry I am way to f*cking busy to get into that. I type fast and I just give my feedback.

If you want to find info that matches what I say then just do the research if you have the time. If not then fine we can just go back and forth at each other. I gain my knowledge from so many friggin sources it would take me an hour just to post all the things I read and research everyday. I have an extremely good memory and my facts are almost never wrong. I am not trying to brag I am just saying it the way it is.

NOTHING I HAVE STATED IS BS. Remember though you are the one who has made referrence to 9/11 being something other than an al-qaeda attack. That right there is the biggest batch of bullsh*t ever.


Your statement is comical


You don’t have a clue to what it is that you are typing do you?

Listen I am not going to pick on you, it seems unfair at this point.


You should do your own research. If you really know how properly research a subject.

I am sure a few months ago you were claiming that Iraq had WMD also…because you read that they had them or did you hear Bush say it was so?

Here why don’t you go entertain yourself with these guys for a while?

http://www.flat-earth.org/

Ryo
02-17-2004, 05:51 PM
The reason why they have nukes is because India wants its total destruction, along the same lines of Israel owning nukes, but this conflict is Asian. The Mongols oppressed, disrespected, humiliated and butchered the Indians to no end, took their women, found Islam and created Pakistan. So yeah, they have a long history. Pakistan has stated many times that they will cooperate if India does, if India won't cooperate, they won't. Pakistan has stated they will stop proliferation if India does too because India could be planning Pakistans destruction through proliferation. Both nations need to be taken care of.

gluon999
02-17-2004, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Ryo
Both nations need to be taken care of.

and how exactly should they be taken care of?

dave22
02-17-2004, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by gluon999
and how exactly should they be taken care of?

Was going to ask the same question. But we have no beef with India, aren't they our allies??

gluon999
02-17-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by dave22
Was going to ask the same question. But we have no beef with India, aren't they our allies??

Yeah, Pakistan is an "ally" too. Although, on the exterior, they are nabbing alqaeda and taliban people, everyone knows that it is just a facade to prevent the Pakistani hardliners from overthrowing the Musharraf gov't.

There are plenty of terrorist factions still existent in Pakistan but Musharraf won't take any drastic action because he doesn't want to piss off the general public.

edit: and its much easy to take action against a small country like Pakistan than against a country of a billion+ people.

dave22
02-17-2004, 08:26 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gluon999
Yeah, Pakistan is an "ally" too. Although, on the exterior, they are nabbing alqaeda and taliban people, everyone knows that it is just a facade to prevent the Pakistani hardliners from overthrowing the Musharraf gov't.

There are plenty of terrorist factions still existent in Pakistan but Musharraf won't take any drastic action because he doesn't want to piss off the general public.

edit: and its much easy to take action against a small country like Pakistan than against a country of a billion+ people. [/

Ummmm, does India have "any" anti-American stances in their country?? How are they in the least bit hostile to us?? How are they not an ally?

BTW, I do agree that it's a joke that Pakistan is considered an ally.

gluon999
02-17-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by dave22
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gluon999
Yeah, Pakistan is an "ally" too. Although, on the exterior, they are nabbing alqaeda and taliban people, everyone knows that it is just a facade to prevent the Pakistani hardliners from overthrowing the Musharraf gov't.

There are plenty of terrorist factions still existent in Pakistan but Musharraf won't take any drastic action because he doesn't want to piss off the general public.

edit: and its much easy to take action against a small country like Pakistan than against a country of a billion+ people. [/

Ummmm, does India have "any" anti-American stances in their country?? How are they in the least bit hostile to us?? How are they not an ally?

BTW, I do agree that it's a joke that Pakistan is considered an ally.

I never said India wasn't an ally. In fact, they are our ally. It is just that Bush administration doesn't want to admit it openly because that would undermine the Musharraf gov't and may be create some feeling of jealousy among the Pakistanis and we don't want that to happen because we can use their unwilling(Musharraf) support for a while.

Ryo
02-18-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Love that one response, "instead of fighting, let's talk about our differences." "Rolls eyes."


You are a staunch Republican right? If what you really mean what you said above then Nixon had no right no be the first president to visit China whatsoever.

Ryo
02-18-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by dave22
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gluon999
[B]BTW, I do agree that it's a joke that Pakistan is considered an ally.

Dave22: Pakistan is not an ally, it is just a country that must cooperate with us because we need to use its ground.

zia
05-06-2004, 05:54 AM
ufff i have seen many posts here that state that america should attack pakistan i feel very terrible about it because pakistan is my country and i dont want my country to be in trouble all this is happening of that ****ing monkey head BUSH when is that ****er is gona change i heard on TV that a new US president is coming...

nuclearboy
05-06-2004, 06:33 AM
exhortae, im french too. and i think u are a ****ing liar, a typical brainwashed islamo socialist frog.

You are one these poor ass hats who think thaht just being "french" make em being "intelectuals" , smarter than the average american of course, who only eat at macdonald everydays and sepdn all his life watching tv.

You are not even original...ur full of lame cliches.

I loved this quote: "the world dont hate us".

Lol poor son of bitch, dont u know that there are alrdy up to 10 milions muslims in france.
That they are owning your own country.

I think you know it, you are aware of it, but u just deny it, or dont want to speak about it.
You are ****ing clueless.

Of course maybe we arent hated like americans are, but, heh, maybe cause we are sucking arabs cocks everydays?

Yeah, but u didnt tell em the truth huh, mother ****er.



ok people, here is a simple thing to get:

in 1991 there were 61 millions of native french in france.Real french.White occidentals.

Our natality rate is too low to renew our native population.1.4 child per woman.

Ok?

Now in 2004, french's population is 66/67 millions.

Ok, if u know that the new people arent french , from where are they?

Immigration only.
Plus the fact that immigrants women make obviously, more babies than french women (arabs and africans women make 3.2)




Why dont u talk about these facts exhortae? why are you just a typical pravda reader? why do you tell em that you learna lot of things while watching "french" tv, when everydbody knows that our french medias are totaly owned by communists and socialists?
And u told em our medias are not as biaised as their owns?


Lol

Go ****yourself ****ing lame liar.

Shame on you.

Ruhanv
05-06-2004, 07:04 AM
Chiba, this started out as an interesting thread and all of a sudden it turned out to be a French/Haiti bashing session. Back to the topic.

The problem with Pakistan is that Musharraf is not an elected leader but came to power via a Coup' in the late 90's that was supported by the US. General Musharraf became an ally of the Bush administration especially during the Afghan war post 9/11, and is considered to be a preferred leader due to his moderate politics as opposed to the right wing Islamic groups within Pakistan. Pakistan is not currently a democracy and the concern is that if an election is held he will lose power. As in Iraq, there is a good chance that elections will result in a theocracy.

This will enhance the spread of Pakistani nuclear weapons throughout the mid east, not only to countries but to independant militant groups like Al-Queda.

Nuclear war was prevented in the cold war by the threat of mutual destruction but this is only relevant when this exists between two states. A group like Al-Queda (and there are many other groups like it) does not fear nuclear retalliation.

When the USSR collapsed, the US offered to monitor and protect all nuclear weapons and facilities at its' own cost at the time. This was obviously in the US' interest. This would not be possible in Pakistan due to the geo-political alliances that many within the Pakistani military have with Islamic militant groups. There is the other risk that these dissident groups within Pakistan could launch a nulcear attack against India. God knows they have been wanting to do it for years but have been prevented by Musharraf.

As such, if Pakistan becomes unstable, there would be very little the US can do to prevent the handover of nuclear weapons to militant groups. Its' a ticking time bomb and the reality is that if Pakistan collapses, it will result in a nuclear bomb being detonated, either on Indian or American soil. The American risk is obviously very dangerous but besides for the loss of human life in India, most of the West's software, hardware, call centres etc. are based in India. A hit on India would create an economic meltdown in the West...

Teenytinyboo
05-06-2004, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by chiba102
***Warning***
Discuss this topic only at a heightened level of intelligence


Pakistan is under a lot of internal turmoil

There President has survived a couple of assassination attempts recently

Their Top scientist has admitted that he has sold nuclear technology to rouge nations
He has also admitted his stanch fundamentalist beliefs in wanting to help Muslims have these weapons

The President of Pakistan was powerless to punish him. He was pardoned and allowed to keep the millions he made in selling nuke technology. Partly because the Pakistani government most likely was looking the other way as he sold this stuff.

The Pakistani military has a strong Muslim fundamentalist element to it due to the conflict with India that pits them as enemies due to faith. Which is why the Nation of Pakistan was created, to provide Muslims in India there own country and allow them to govern them selves.

The Pakistani Intelligence Agency Created the Taliban and supported them. There is a strong sense of loyalty to them also. Because of the long working relations that they formed together and enjoyed over the years.

The religious schools that export the fundamentalist form of Islam is the most popular religious schooling available to children. It is free of charge thanks to the Saudi government.


What should America due if the President of Pakistan is killed and/or turmoil over turns the government there?

What if the Pakistani people vote in a Fundamentalist government like Iran, or worst?

What should and how far should America go to protect us?


America should do F all and keep its nose out instead of trying to police the world, leave it to the UN

omariok2
05-06-2004, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by Umkazar
It we allow Nuclear weapons and missle techonalgy to fall in the hands of more extream muslims we might as well kill millions of our own people, as that is all they will do with such things. If the time comes that such a situation arises the US should step up and destroy all of pakistans nuclear technolagy, scientists and anything relating to it, anything short of that will sign the death warrent of millions of Isralis and Amercians.

keep your mouth shut sparky..
do you realize what you just said?
you just suggested that you kill people who have never done anything to you
hopefully someday youll realize that this "we can do whatever we want to anybody coz our military is so strong" attitude is part of the reason why 90% of the world hates you
if you want to talk like that then dont bitch and moan when some guy whos been bullied around too much decideds to blow himself up in your city

Ruhanv
05-06-2004, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by omariok2
keep your mouth shut sparky..
do you realize what you just said?
you just suggested that you kill people who have never done anything to you
hopefully someday youll realize that this "we can do whatever we want to anybody coz our military is so strong" attitude is part of the reason why 90% of the world hates you
if you want to talk like that then dont bitch and moan when some guy whos been bullied around too much decideds to blow himself up in your city

I agree but there is another angle to this as well. If America do go in aggressively, they will ensure that every young muslim man in the world sign up to Al-Queda. The repurcussions will be a few 9/11's all over again.

Teenytinyboo
05-06-2004, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by placebo
?

Anyway, I don't think Bush will invade Pakistan, there's not that much oil there as far as I know.

OMFG ROFL Bump!

zia
05-06-2004, 12:43 PM
you americans, you are so Proud of the power but i tell you this well ruined you one day...

dave22
05-06-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by zia
you americans, you are so Proud of the power but i tell you this well ruined you one day...

Yeah, and one day oil will be useless because we'll find another source of energy, and just watch what happens to your countries then. They truly will become useless then, more so than what they are now.

Preach on about your golden days, that was what?? 800 years ago, what have you done lately??

zia
05-06-2004, 04:36 PM
i am not into this political or making planes to what should our country do but i wont tolerate if some 1 gives remarks to my country..

dave22
05-06-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by zia
i am not into this political or making planes to what should our country do but i wont tolerate if some 1 gives remarks to my country..

Pakistan isn't your country, it says that you live in the UAE. So what's the problem?

nuclearboy
05-06-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by zia
i am not into this political or making planes to what should our country do but i wont tolerate if some 1 gives remarks to my country.. cmon dont make lame prophecy.You r just angry being an ass in a third world country.
Allah wont save you, allah wont erase americans from the earth surface... America will kick your ass before.There will be no miracles.

Usa will teach you freedom and occdiental way of life by pounding your ass with jdam if needed.But you wil understand and follow.
You are condtionned to be an ass like your loved ones since so many ****ing centuries...You even dont know what it is to think by yourself...and u want to teach us something?


hope allah's wearing kevlar.

kshatriya4life
05-06-2004, 09:07 PM
Not sure if you guys are keeping up with the world news.
India and Pakistan have improved their relations tremendously.
Musharref is a good guy. Too bad that most of the Pakistani politicians like Nawaz Shariff and Bhutto are corrupt.

Yes, Pakistan LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY have bad elements. But that does not mean they will usurp the power. It all comes down to the defense forces..and currently, the country has all the good people on the top position

So the idea of fundamentalists,anti-peace activisits taking control is very unlikely.

irpker
05-07-2004, 02:24 AM
Just because the United States stopped referring to Musharaff as a military dictator because they wanted to be buddy-buddy with pakistan to kill al-qaida and taliban, and suddenly became "president", does not change the fact of what he is.

kshatriya4life
05-07-2004, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by irpker
Just because the United States stopped referring to Musharaff as a military dictator because they wanted to be buddy-buddy with pakistan to kill al-qaida and taliban, and suddenly became "president", does not change the fact of what he is.

And what is he ? Last I heard was that he is improving relations with India, getting rid of terrorists in his country.
What do you want ?

kshatriya4life
05-07-2004, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Pakistan isn't your country, it says that you live in the UAE. So what's the problem?

He might be a Pakistani citizen workin in UAE.

zia
05-07-2004, 03:30 AM
yup i am a pakistani citizen studying in UAE

omariok2
05-08-2004, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by dave22
Pakistan isn't your country, it says that you live in the UAE. So what's the problem?

LOL OMFG....:rolleyes:

dave22
05-09-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by zia
ufff i have seen many posts here that state that america should attack pakistan i feel very terrible about it because pakistan is my country and i dont want my country to be in trouble all this is happening of that ****ing monkey head BUSH when is that ****er is gona change i heard on TV that a new US president is coming...

Sorry bud, a new president isn't coming. BTW, it's not the US's fault that your country is having problems, and nobody is going to attack your country if it becomes unstable. Did we attack Iran when they became unstable?

AnotherScorpion
05-09-2004, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by zia
i am not into this political or making planes to what should our country do but i wont tolerate if some 1 gives remarks to my country..

Yo...Zia, nothing against Pakistan but it's really f&^#ed up there! Why don't you learn from India! Nothing like secularism! Btw, the firm I work for opened a representative office in Dubai, it's one of the best cities in the world to live in. I hope I can visit it soon!

zxcvnm
05-09-2004, 08:01 AM
What you do comes back straight at you.

bravebakhtawar
08-26-2005, 06:15 AM
Exactly what I'm gonna say.

What should the west do? Let India take care of them. :D

All of you guys and girls,think stupidly. the extremists in pakistan are in minority . and infact they are 5 percent only. the main thing to do is how to prevent the extremists from coming into the rule in pakistan. presedent musharaf has clearly said that don't give votes to extremist parties in elections. and this is the exact way how liberal people think about. but the the way you guys are thinking is too much rubish, its seems that you guys take pakistani nation as a flok of animals or cattles. all of you guys are the followers of lying western media.and the fact is that the guys and girls like you who think like that and just follow the western media are worst then animals. even animals are quite sensitive and loving.

abcfighter90
06-04-2013, 02:57 PM
why cant pakastain and india just attack each other so america, england, and australia doesnt have to invade them.
hahahah i doubt 'Australia' would do anything considering they have no nukes and pakistan would destroy them in a conventional or nuclear war. and its not like india can just walk in start throwing nukes and thats it, pakistan also has a hundred nukes more than india which they would ALSO use which would result in the death of over a 100 million people.

anonymousceleb
06-04-2013, 03:10 PM
America should just mind its own business. I'd say the same regarding any country that isn't actually attacking the US.

India has over six times the population of Pakistan and a slightly wealthier population per capita. I just don't think Pakistan would be able to get all that out of hand considering where it is in the world.

GermanBB
06-04-2013, 03:52 PM
throw mccain out a window and gtfo of the middle east...