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View Full Version : M1T - EDog's best practices for M1T Cycles



legalgear
12-08-2003, 02:28 PM
As always I am sure I will get a earful if I get one detail wrong, but this is what I will take along with my upcoming Methyl-1-Test cycle.

1) NAC with M1T is best taken along with rALA/ALA. These are powerful antioxidants that help protect the liver from high liver enzymes that create extra free radicals and cause damage. AVOID ALCOHOL!!! (I sometimes miss the mark on this one)

2) Milk thistle can be taken later in the evening, but I don't take it with M1T because it might help the liver clear the product, which is not good since you spent $$ for it.

So for example if you are taking 20mg a day, you would take one tab in the morning with NAC, one tablet in the evening with NAC and then Milk Thistle before bed.

3) Take a good BP lowering supplement like Hawthorn Berry and/or CoQ10 and a good guggul product like Guggulbolic. Take in plenty of Potassium. 10 pills a day seems like a lot, but that is only one banana!

4) Use a little 4-AD with the product or 1,4 Andro to add a little estrogen. (4-AD+ would be good! wink wink) Really helps control the sides effects.

Hope this helps. Always check with your doctor before starting any supplement program.

Keep this thread alive and let's learn together!

EDog

legalgear
12-08-2003, 02:35 PM
Can you guys consider making this a sticky if it is good enough? I like to see people do things safely no matter who's product they take and I feel that this is a good first start that won't break teh bank.

EDog

NO MERCY
12-08-2003, 02:44 PM
Good stuff.

John Basedow
12-08-2003, 02:51 PM
edog: can you maybe consider giving away 4ad samples (2 week supply would be great) with your m1t bottles? i don't plan to use a 4ad product at all during my m1t cycle unless i happen to come across one for cheap or free.


then again, legal gear is a business, not a charity... so it's all your choice.

pogue
12-08-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by *********
Can you guys consider making this a sticky if it is good enough? I like to see people do things safely no matter who's product they take and I feel that this is a good first start that won't break teh bank.

EDog

Maybe I'll add it to the PH Faq and get all the credit :D

doa8
12-08-2003, 03:11 PM
is it ok to drink alcohol if your just using m1t and milk thistle? and not NAC with M1T is best taken along with rALA/ALA.

NO MERCY
12-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by doa8
is it ok to drink alcohol if your just using m1t and milk thistle? and not NAC with M1T is best taken along with rALA/ALA.

i do not recommend any alcohol intake

b-nc
12-08-2003, 03:14 PM
I do have a question regarding M1T and useage of an on cycle anti-e. I plan to use M1t and a low doseage of 6oxo during my cycle. Post cycle I would use Letrozole. I know this might sound extreme but I just wanted to see what your thoughts are?

NO MERCY
12-08-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by b-nc
I do have a question regarding M1T and useage of an on cycle anti-e. I plan to use M1t and a low doseage of 6oxo during my cycle. Post cycle I would use Letrozole. I know this might sound extreme but I just wanted to see what your thoughts are?

whats you reasoning behind this? Thanks

NO MERCY
12-08-2003, 03:17 PM
http://www.forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177334&highlight=SAFETY

more M1T info. Oldy but goody. Eric I hope you dont mind me posting this with yours. I figured I would add it since there are so many m1t questions at this time.

legalgear
12-08-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by pogue
Maybe I'll add it to the PH Faq and get all the credit :D

Well ****, you might as well. Didn't you invent 4-AD and 1-AD or am I thinking of someone else?

E

PS NO MERCY...all information is good information if it helps people use things properly and safely!

b-nc
12-08-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by NO MERCY
whats you reasoning behind this? Thanks

just wanted to see what you guys thought. I had the same question for PH uses and wanted to see how it would apply to M1T.

legalgear
12-08-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by b-nc
I do have a question regarding M1T and useage of an on cycle anti-e. I plan to use M1t and a low doseage of 6oxo during my cycle. Post cycle I would use Letrozole. I know this might sound extreme but I just wanted to see what your thoughts are?


Uh...why would you take 6OXO on cycle? That isn't too bright unless you want to send you BP through the roof! Don't waste the $$ on it while on cycle, use it after or Letro is good too.

Frankiexq
12-08-2003, 03:34 PM
if alcohol didn't damage the liver, you could take it increase estrogen. ^_^

legalgear
12-08-2003, 03:35 PM
That's true! It ruins my workouts when I drink for like a week. I am off the sauce until Cancun!

E

IanHummel
12-08-2003, 04:32 PM
*********, could you please post the sug. MG for each of the things you said to take while on M1T. Right now I got the Milk Thistle and Pottassium, but I would like to know how many MG ED to take of the others.

Thanks!
Ian

BustaReims
12-08-2003, 04:50 PM
I am interested in trying out M1T. I should let i be known that I have 2 1-AD cycles under my belt, so I know what to expect on a ph cycle. So, the questions I have are...

(1) How much ala is recommened to be taken with a 2-on, 2-off, 2-on cycle?

(2) How much nac is recommended to be taken with the same cycle?

(3) If I am to take 4-ad with the cycle, would it be a problem if I took 4-ad for 6 weeks prior to the M1T cycle, thereby making the 4-ad active in my cycle when I start the M1T?


Thanks for all your help, guys - I am really looking forward to trying this out!

LIL_ DADDY
12-08-2003, 05:31 PM
Ian - bro

All you have to do is read my thread or one by lake. All of the information I have put on there is basically the same thing legal has just posted. Where do you think I got all my info from.. Anyway didnt I PM what I thought you should take. If I didnt PM me again and I will break it down for you.

Just for your guys mental note, the BP really tends to skyrocket about day 8 or 9. It kinda creeps up on you.

E - when we gonna hook up...

JT

Wheelies
12-08-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by *********
That's true! It ruins my workouts when I drink for like a week. I am off the sauce until Cancun!

E

I was thinking about doing that as well, but I dont think I would last. What kind of price did you get for Cancun, and when you going down.

FireSpirit
12-08-2003, 07:15 PM
Im going to be doing my 2nd cycle sometime in Jan. Its going to look something like the following:

week 1-8: 100mg test prop ED
week 1: 10 mg m1t
week 2: 15 mg m1t
week 3+4: 20mg m1t
week 7: 10mg m1t
week 8: 10mg m1t

or should I just do week 1-6 @ 10mg of m1t? I tried m1t about a month ago but only did a three week stack at 20mg a day. I didnt really see any results until the last week.

Ill probably run some fina in there at 75mg ed for 8 weeks also, to make it a lean mass cycle.

Right now, im 5'10" 232 @ 10% bodyfat.
Im gonna try to get as lean as possible before this stack, probably 225 or so.

Lemme know if I should change anything, thanks.

FireSpirit
12-08-2003, 07:26 PM
oh yeah, ill have nolva on hand, and im gonna see if I can get some HCG

cookmic5
12-08-2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by *********
As always I am sure I will get a earful if I get one detail wrong, but this is what I will take along with my upcoming Methyl-1-Test cycle.

1) NAC with M1T is best taken along with rALA/ALA. These are powerful antioxidants that help protect the liver from high liver enzymes that create extra free radicals and cause damage. AVOID ALCOHOL!!! (I sometimes miss the mark on this one)

2) Milk thistle can be taken later in the evening, but I don't take it with M1T because it might help the liver clear the product, which is not good since you spent $$ for it.

So for example if you are taking 20mg a day, you would take one tab in the morning with NAC, one tablet in the evening with NAC and then Milk Thistle before bed.

3) Take a good BP lowering supplement like Hawthorn Berry and/or CoQ10 and a good guggul product like Guggulbolic. Take in plenty of Potassium. 10 pills a day seems like a lot, but that is only one banana!

4) Use a little 4-AD with the product or 1,4 Andro to add a little estrogen. (4-AD+ would be good! wink wink) Really helps control the sides effects.

Hope this helps. Always check with your doctor before starting any supplement program.

Keep this thread alive and let's learn together!

EDog

why does Milk thistle clear the liver while NAC does not?

cm5

NO MERCY
12-08-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by *********
PS NO MERCY...all information is good information if it helps people use things properly and safely!

cool bro thanks

NO MERCY
12-08-2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by b-nc
just wanted to see what you guys thought. I had the same question for PH uses and wanted to see how it would apply to M1T.

Ya i agree with Legal I wouldnt recommend it.

size
12-08-2003, 09:45 PM
NAC should be all that is needed, but your liver will not be completely protected. If fact, protection is not exactly the right word to use as it gives a false sense of security, aid is a better choice.

N-Acetyl Cysteine restores liver glutathione levels. Glutathione is a small protein that is involved in detoxification and antioxidant mechanisms. 1200mg daily would be sufficient.

Also increase you vitamin C and E.


After the cessation of using the hepatotoxic substance, such as methyl 1-test, use a blend supplements that contain silymarin, NAC, etc.

Ginobili
12-08-2003, 10:13 PM
Very informative answer Size....thanks for the info.

rick1168
12-09-2003, 05:14 AM
m-1-T...hands down best legal, for now, supplement Ive ever used...up 9lbs and the pumps in my chest and tris last night were almost unbearable...only doing 10mg for past 9 days...Im 5'9, 198...do I really need PCT if everythings ok? Im only doing 2 week cycle to see the effects and sides if any.

pu12en12g
12-09-2003, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by rick1168
m-1-T...hands down best legal, for now, supplement Ive ever used...up 9lbs and the pumps in my chest and tris last night were almost unbearable...only doing 10mg for past 9 days...Im 5'9, 198...do I really need PCT if everythings ok? Im only doing 2 week cycle to see the effects and sides if any.

What brand M1T are you on ?

rick1168
12-09-2003, 05:25 AM
meso labs...I saw on one internet site where an Advantage Labs brand is selling it? never heard of them?

The Bionic Man
12-09-2003, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by rick1168
m-1-T...hands down best legal, for now, supplement Ive ever used...up 9lbs and the pumps in my chest and tris last night were almost unbearable...only doing 10mg for past 9 days...Im 5'9, 198...do I really need PCT if everythings ok? Im only doing 2 week cycle to see the effects and sides if any.

When do you start to see/feel/notice results?

rick1168
12-09-2003, 06:46 AM
like friggin second day man...I only worked out twice last week and felt sh*tty but the pumps were good...I took a long weekend off and yesterday all my lifts were up.

NO MERCY
12-09-2003, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by rick1168
m-1-T...hands down best legal, for now, supplement Ive ever used...up 9lbs and the pumps in my chest and tris last night were almost unbearable...only doing 10mg for past 9 days...Im 5'9, 198...do I really need PCT if everythings ok? Im only doing 2 week cycle to see the effects and sides if any.

Yes 6oxo should do. Nolva/Clomid are also good choices.

rick1168
12-09-2003, 07:30 AM
ok...I have nolva...20-40mg ed for 2 weeks? will it really help to retain gains from such a short cycle?

NO MERCY
12-09-2003, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by rick1168
ok...I have nolva...20-40mg ed for 2 weeks? will it really help to retain gains from such a short cycle?

yes M1T is very powerful and can shut you down. Anywhere between 20-40mgs a day for 2 weeks should do. I would go for 40mgs if it were me.

cookmic5
12-09-2003, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by cookmic5
why does Milk thistle clear the liver while NAC does not?

cm5

Damn that's a good question! ;) so why is that LG?

cm5

intv
12-09-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by FireSpirit
Im going to be doing my 2nd cycle sometime in Jan. Its going to look something like the following:

week 1-8: 100mg test prop ED
week 1: 10 mg m1t
week 2: 15 mg m1t
week 3+4: 20mg m1t
week 7: 10mg m1t
week 8: 10mg m1t

or should I just do week 1-6 @ 10mg of m1t? I tried m1t about a month ago but only did a three week stack at 20mg a day. I didnt really see any results until the last week.

Ill probably run some fina in there at 75mg ed for 8 weeks also, to make it a lean mass cycle.

Right now, im 5'10" 232 @ 10% bodyfat.
Im gonna try to get as lean as possible before this stack, probably 225 or so.

Lemme know if I should change anything, thanks.

Your liver is going to crawl out through your ass and find a new host! :) j/k but 8 weeks seems like a long time to run M1T.

NO MERCY
12-09-2003, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by cookmic5
Damn that's a good question! ;) so why is that LG?

cm5

Yes good question. I am looking to this right now also. I will keep everyone posted.

scott_donald
12-09-2003, 10:41 AM
weldone edog...now what about the splitting of the 10mg dosages....

legalgear
12-09-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by cookmic5
Damn that's a good question! ;) so why is that LG?

cm5

I will et you a more scientific answer later, but in a nutshell, NAC is an antioxidant that protects the liver cells when enzyme levels go up. Milk Thistle works in a totally different manner. It actually helps clear things from the liver. I will get more scientific when i get in front of my books.

EDog

PS Scott, don't split 5mg unless you are very small because you may not get enough in your system to get a good response. Is that what you were asking?

scott_donald
12-09-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by *********

PS Scott, don't split 5mg unless you are very small because you may not get enough in your system to get a good response. Is that what you were asking?

i am past that stage i am onto 20mg... but myself and nomercy were talking about this and posted this...

http://forum.anabolicminds.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11525&highlight=no+mercy


i know what your opinion is bu this in the thread makes sense...

legalgear
12-09-2003, 01:25 PM
I can't get to AM. I am banned for life...long story.

E

scott_donald
12-09-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by *********
I can't get to AM. I am banned for life...long story.

E

ok from bobo....

I addressed this over at bb.com when ********* was stating the same theory. Its not true.

Posted by LG:

"Well, it's all just theory, but I think that if you divide up too low of a dose, you never really get enough androgen in your system to make a positive effect on muscle growth. We don't know the life of this compound in the body, but you might not ever get enough in your system to effect a positive change. I would take mine in the morning like 9am...

It would make sense to think that you would divide the doses, but with a methyl compound that really isn't necessary, nor effective. The reason why it works with 1-AD is because you need to keep up a certain blood level as your liver is destroying the molecule. Whith Methyl-1, there is no reason to do that and as I said may be counter productive. Now, if you went to 20mg for example, you would space those."


My post:(bobos)

"No, thats not how it works at all. 1-AD get about 10% absortion and that why take 600mg to begin with compared to 10-20mg of M1T. Once it passes the first time its metabolized the same as other compunds. Plus androgens work by gene transcription over time and the levels of androgen often has zero effect on those factors (mRNA, protein synthesis). Its the buildup over days and sometimes weeks which causes growth."

from chemo....

There is no need to space the doses to 5 mg twice daily. However, for those that are prone to the sides that are present at 10 mg it may help to decrease the the severity of presentation. This is feedback from 2 sources so take it for what it's worth.

Chemo

from size....

This is a constant debate with oral anabolics also.

i can tell you from my exp. that i have seen no difference form spacing or not spacing.



Bobo is right as usual, I may start calling him Raybravo Jr. it is a build up effect.

legalgear
12-09-2003, 04:49 PM
Well, I have issure with where he gets 10% absorption from 1-AD. Any data to back that up?

Second, once a methyl compound passed the liver there is no science that says it is cleared like any other compound. Most likely it is metabolized in other ways. It certainly is metabolized more slowly no matter how you slice it IMHO.

Although Bobo bashed me for not understanding how androgens work, I do have a knowledge of how they operate (no expert though, which is why I employ a chemist). They do work by increasing transcription in the nucleus, but clearly blood levels have an impact, so I do not agree with him that they only work over time and that blood levels concentrations do not matter.

SHBG certainly could account for why an androgen does not work at 5mgX2 divided up and why 10mg might work. I am not sure the affinity of 1-Test for SHBG, but it may be a huge factor especially after shut down has taken place.

Unless I am terribly off, this is a detailed well thought out discussion point. Might not be 100% right, but not stupid by any means.

EDog

PS I doubt Chemo ever took JUST 10mg of anything in his life! He seems to me to be a heavy doser... (that's a joke, so lighten up)